Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[NekoNekoRex]

I'd say it is, in fact, zhwehjmnapwgmnaw mostly based on his terrible behavior the entire game (several days of just not making reads or votes at all) and because Process of Elim. Dan is townie and I think Neik would at least be making *some* effort to divert the wagons in an otherwise solved game

[Disquieted]

I suppose I'll show up.

What you're describing is pretty much scum getting complacent yes. I've been thinking zwerdjib is just blatantly flaking and not even being apologetic about it, but when you describe it in that POE you're probably right. I feel like Dan's commitment has gone up since what I remember of Day 1 and what you're saying about Niek is exactly what I think about him but with more examples and words.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement119
{
        I'm living in the world where (Serela) and (O4rfish) are both scum. In this world, (Serela) is producing garbage cop results that don't actually progress the game state in order to push mislynches onto questionable lurker slots and the like.
}
define Statement120
{
        However, for now, I'm going to think things over with regards to (Serela) and (O4rfish).
}
if (Reply #2426
{
        cout <<(Statement119)
        cout <<(Statement120)
}
I'm living in the world where Serela and O4rfish are both scum. In this world, Serela is producing garbage cop results that don't actually progress the game state in order to push mislynches onto questionable lurker slots and the like. However, for now, I'm going to think things over with regards to Serela and O4rfish.
query (Playerbase)
{
        cout <<(unvote)
        cout <<(scum)+(Conqueror)
}
##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

##Unvote
##Vote: Conqueror

[Disquieted]

I mean. I won't discard it, yes. However, the easiest cop result for Serela to fake is... probably me or Nuxl. Copping you is questionable all around except for the one world where Serela is justifiably paranoid of your existence, something which I find really hard to for scum!Serela to justify.

That said, I just typed the above out without realising that this is probably Serela's meta and he's probably well aware that he would make this sort of result to - you know what just ignore this post. Serela can defend why he made his own cops.

[Kilgamayan]

Popping in to encourage anyone seeing red (anger red, not Mafia red) to take a deep breath and slowly count to ten before writing anything. In the end, this is simply a game; let's not let it bother us too much or encourage us to harass each other. Remember that the most important part of a tea party is the civility!

Vote Count 4.1

O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (0):
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (1): Dormio Ergo Sum
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): NekoNekoRex, NekoNekoRex, Dormio Ergo Sum
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (2): NekoNekoRex, Disquieted
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (1): Serela, Serela
Disquieted (Reimu Hakurei) (1): Conqueror
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (1): Raikaria
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0):
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):

Not voting (5): O4rfish, sb, zwerdjib, ActionDan, Niektory

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch. You have some tremendous number of nanoseconds remaining to vote.

[Serela]

there's a lot of things I'm going to pass over entirely with Kilga's statement in mind

##vote: disquieted
i wonder how much resistance there is to this. for some reason people have been ignoring this slot.

I think Refa's d1/d2 would be incredibly difficult to pull off as scum as I've commented several times (intense curiosity, lots of questioning, many novel lines of thought) and smartbomb's D3 was good as well. no comment on d4 other than it doesn't look like scum either, even in a vacuum apart from d1~3. 0/10 would never lynch

Rai is like 1/10 or 0.5/10 would not lynch which basically takes them completely off the table as well, and the entire game pretty much agrees with the sentiment AFAIK.

At this point I can actually safely lynch the entire rest of the players that I haven't explicitly modcleared so I guess the game is already solved from my PoV! Sorry scum????

That being said lynching in order of priority is still good practice and zwerd is still at the top of that priority list.

Ok, bear yourselves for a big quotestrip wall as I respond to Dormio's post on me. He's not still voting me but uh, a lot of what he said seems pretty clearly and explicitly against what actually happened so I still want to address it

    I don't believe that a town (Serela) would cop (Prims) night 1 over all of the lurkers and unknowns. Especially since (Serela) never actually mentions any real opinion of (Prims) at all during the entirety of day 1.

Except for the opinion I stated of Prims d1 where I say I'm completely incapable of ever reading Prims and consider them n1 cop material. One thing I didn't consider admittedly was the likelihood of Good Player Prims being nk'd n1, but, no one really saw that coming in general, a few people thought he might be scum.

There are NUMEROUS times I've thought Prims was gloriously town and then he turned out to be scum. In fact, I've never had a scumread on Prims, ever; not even a light suspicion he could be anything but town, despite being in several Prims scum games. I've seen it when I've hosted games as well, he's just... really really good at being scum.

I should also mention here that (Serela) had (Serela)'s vote on (raikaria) for almost the entirety of day 1, and yet still felt the need to cop (Prims) over (raikaria). Or (ActionDan). Or (Niektory). Or (Xinnidy).

Uh, by the end of d1, Raikaria was blatantly town. Did you forget that my Rai vote was pretty much a weak ed1 vote because I couldn't see anything better, and I clearly wasn't all that invested in it? (which in itself is slightly scummy, but, that's not relevant to the argument at hand)

By the end of D1 I was already saying Rai was probably town. Everyone else agreed more or less on d2, so this is not exactly controversial.

Now, I did heavily consider copping Niektory. I thought I'd probably be copping them n2, even. But when N2 rolled around, I decided I wasn't going to because I thought they should just be lynched instead and that it'd have a decent chance of coming up scum. Unfortunately, into d3 when I actually reread niek I realized I definitely thought they were town instead. Whoops.

During day 2, (Serela) even talks about how (Serela) has difficulty reading lurkers such as (ActionDan) in (Reply #1091) but doesn't use the tool at (Serela)'s disposal that literally tells (Serela) the alignment of these unreadables.

Yeah I'd really rather just lynch the person who, at the time, was basically not playing the game, and save the cops for someone who's not liable to get themselves modkilled the next day.

On top of that, despite it being universally agreed that (Duskfall98)'s end of day 2 was weird as all hell, and (Serela) expressing this same opinion, (Serela) decides to cop (O4rfish) who nobody cared about outside of myself and (sb) at the time.

Did... I... ever express this opinion about duskfall in any significant capacity?? Uh, I had a TOWN read on duskfall after some of his interactions d2. I explicitly said so. I'm really not sure where you're getting this from, Dormio.

Dormio, if you read my late-day posts d2 you'll see my PoE list for scum was getting very, very narrow, and the people on it included Shadoweh/Niektory/Dan/SB/O4rfish. We lynched Shadoweh, I decided Niek/Dan should just both be lurker lynched, and that the cop was better placed on someone out of the last two. I reread SB after the lynch and decided I just thought he was town, so I used it on o4rfish. This is very consistent with all my given reads at end of d2 and start of d3.

It's really weird how early (Serela) is willing to out (Serela) given that the only people who were really pushing for (O4rfish) was myself and (sb).

This is... also not true. I held out as long as I could until there was 3~4 votes on o4rfish with multiple people stating interest in lynching O4r as well. It looked very much like the day was going to end in an o4rfish lynch at that point. I really, really didn't want to claim stuff because I thought I'd be nk'd as a result, and... apparently was really strawberries at counting and thought we were already at 11 players and heading into lylo after a mislynch.

There's so many people in this game. Smartbomb wouldn't be aware of this, but motk games were usually 11~13 people which means like, half as many people or less would be alive at this point in the game, which means half as many posts (or -less-, really, this thread is disgustingly long for an motk mafia game) and only a few people left to be seriously judging right now instead of 7 even after numerous mod confirmed clears. This is part of why I'm really just not going to go back and iso a townie just because they refuse to restate a case from a previous day when asked politely. [not continuing this topic further]

(Serela) also talks during day 3 about how (Serela) has a solid scumread on (zwerdjib), and yet (Serela) decides that (Serela) doesn't want to check (zwerdjib)'s alignment.

Why am I going to waste a cop result on the one person I actually solidly think is scum as opposed to an unknown? Now, I can't argue much against "why didn't you cop dan/etc instead of masons" in any way that's actually solid, but simply put, NNR's entire game looked lurkscum and Dormio, while having a good d2, was tunnelling on my town cop result and his d3 was pretty lackluster. I thought it was veerrry possible you guys were actually scum, and as stated before, a 4p scum game actually makes mason gambit pretty good, because normally if it fails you've pretty much thrown the game already. In this case, there's still half the scumteam, and you probably won outright if it works. If I was right and you WERE scum, my cop result would probably be the ONLY thing stopping you two from easily steamrolling to a scum win. I'd still have been heavily suspicious of you two atm otherwise so I don't consider it a wasted result *Shrug*


Anyway, i'm seeing so far that there's agreement zwerd is likely scum even if those people are currently voting someone else, so I'm pretty good with where I am right now

[Niektory]

It's really weird how early (Serela) is willing to out (Serela) given that the only people who were really pushing for (O4rfish) was myself and (sb).

This is... also not true. I held out as long as I could until there was 3~4 votes on o4rfish with multiple people stating interest in lynching O4r as well. It looked very much like the day was going to end in an o4rfish lynch at that point. I really, really didn't want to claim stuff because I thought I'd be nk'd as a result, and... apparently was really strawberries at counting and thought we were already at 11 players and heading into lylo after a mislynch.

It was two hours before deadline and O4rfish was the biggest wagon (at 4 votes). So at least this part is believable.

And yet (Serela) survives the night and is not roleblocked either. This doesn't ring warning bells for (Playerbase)?

It does.

[raikaria]

define Statement111
{
        (Serela)'s claim reeks and I hate it.
...

        And yet (Serela) survives the night and is not roleblocked either. This doesn't ring warning bells for (Playerbase)?

I agree with most of this statement, after all; I did say in my post it is suspicious that Serela is alive and his results are so... convientent.

HoweverI think it is better to wait until Day 4 for a Serela lynch to be considered; because:

1: If he is really a cop; Mafia is likly to take some sort of action. The longer he lives [undisturbed]; the more likly he is scum.

2: It gives Serela another night of potential results. Which is more information for us; regardless of his alignment.

3: If Serela is a cop... we probably don't want to lynch the cop then be on what is almost certainly LYLO.

I think right now; Serela is more useful to us alive than dead. I think it's better to scumhunt the 6 'unclear' suspects I listed earlier.

[raikaria]

Specifically; if Serela survives to Day 4 unmolested and has another suspicious cop result; I would 100% be game to lynch Serela.

But the simple fact he's claimed Cop means we should probably delay his lynch.

[NekoNekoRex]

Today is Day 4

[Serela]

i'm mildly uncomfortable being in a position where if we mislynch, i may be left alive as the lylo mislynch (and, in fact, considering that assuming rai/smartbomb is town gives my cop clear list a path to 100% win chance, this really might occur) BUT I have confidence we will successfully lynch scum today in which case it's just all around bad for them to leave me alive, since then even if I'm mislynched tomorrow it just means there's -another- cop result that's now modconfirmed

[Conqueror]

In one post you have proven that you have no scumread. This vote on me isn't anywhere near a scumread, it's a feelvote, I spend the entire day pushing you yesterday and your read on my slot has ended in "I feel like nobody is looking at this guy". I'm OK as both alignments, but let's talk about the fact you're deeply familiar with both high-impact scumgames I've had, to the point where the only thing anyone talks about me is "wow this guy carried the mafia team by messaging 180 players every single day" or "wow this guy won the game as a serial killer with 175 players in the game". I'll call myself a complex character, yes? You have expressed none of that thought when evaluating me, you have not said my push is scummy or towny, you have decided NOT TO GIVE A READ.

Instead you draw back to Day 1 and Day 2. Let's ignore the fact that I have already complained about your Day 2 being narrow, cause that's not the point. That's nowhere NEAR the point. I'm saying that out of every post I've read since I've subbed in, you have done NOTHING but get annoyed at people playing mafia wrong without even giving them a read - apparently you don't scumread raikaria. So what's the point?! You have no reads, you spend all this time wallposting but in the end you seem to be incredibly NOT INTERESTED in doing anything towny, which is protect townreads and hunt for mafia.

I see none of that. You have a solve. It is the laziest solve I have ever seen, you have taken all three PRs, assumed they're all town, and their associates out of the equation and gone shrug, there's like a small team dissociation. Every. Single. Person in this game has got a hot scumread right now and you have absolutely nothing on Day 4.

You can't change that with 700 words either way. You literally admitted it in the same post. Your excuse is "wow mafia sucks", but you've literally spent 4000 words defending yourself and the fire in which you defend against me makes it very clear that you do NOT think mafia sucks (or you would've told me to get off your back for not solving cause mafia fire trucking sucks) implying that there's significant cognitive dissonance here. So. What is the deal.

smartbomb.
my vote on you is a scumread.
its is not because you have no one looking at you. that was an afterthought.
it's because i think your push on me has been bullstrawberries.
i explicitly said this in my post where I voted you.
you're ignoring pretty much everything i've said here to continue pushing your point of view.
your complaint seems to be that i dont explicitly say that "i think this dude is scum" when i vote someone. i do this in LITERALLY EVERY TOWN GAME OF MINE. i can take an attack me me not doing anything d3 because that's fair. but i've pointed out what i dislike about your push and for you to just brush it off and say "this isn't a push, this is just a prod," is insanely frustrating to the point where i think you're trying to tilt me on purpose. yes, that's scummy.

you already complained about my d2. i responded to your complaint about my d2. you never responded back. yes, it is actually the fire trucking point because you said that i've done LITERALLY nothing all game, which is complete bullstrawberries because i was trying for the first few days! I already pointed out why I was mad at raikaria - if people are pushing bullstrawberries reads on me I get mad and correct them. I do this every game when I'm town. The point is to get people scumreading me out of the poe so they can solve correctly. What's the town motive in letting people read you wrong?
You say I didn't protect any townreads, bullstrawberries. I had a townread on Serela, I pointed out why the case on Serela was bullstrawberries, none of the voters on Serela really responded, I couldnt tell if they were mafia or misguided/lazy town, so I gave up. Since we're only apparently talking about D3, the only other wagons apart from Serela and me were Dan, who I didn't have a townread on, and oarfish who was a ???? to me. Take your accusation and shove it up your ass.

it's a lazy solve but if i'm right, then 4 out of the 5 picks in there are mafia. you don't even disagree (ofc you'll swap yourself out for me) so what exactly is your fire trucking problem? you're my hot fire trucking scumread!

mafia still sucks but im always going to defend myself if someone's case is as godawful as yours. what the fire truck exactly is the cognitive dissonance here? you are literally making up bullstrawberries just to push whatever i do as scummy.

[Conqueror]

I also agree with smartbomb but I think Conq is so obviously scum that he's better saved for later.

smh nnr. throw me a bone here and tell me why you think that.

I think Refa's d1/d2 would be incredibly difficult to pull off as scum as I've commented several times (intense curiosity, lots of questioning, many novel lines of thought) and smartbomb's D3 was good as well. no comment on d4 other than it doesn't look like scum either, even in a vacuum apart from d1~3. 0/10 would never lynch

what about his pushes on me, do you agree with them? if people are just going to run with this then i would rather be mislynched now to save me the trouble.

[NekoNekoRex]

Dont have to, not while youre already writing yourself into a corner like a desperate scumbag with nothing left to lose

[raikaria]

Today is Day 4

I have flubrain <.<

Day 5 I mean

[Conqueror]

Dont have to, not while youre already writing yourself into a corner like a desperate scumbag with nothing left to lose

i'm desperate but not a scumbag. I'd like you to read it anyway because it's going to become relevant sooner or later.

[Conqueror]

agree with smartbomb

people need to stop giving free passes to people who have been active while doing nothing all game

oh wait i missed this bit from your post earlier.
smdh nnr i did more than you this game, don't give me this strawberries.

[Serela]

I'm at work with boss around and can't reread old stuff yet (e.g. conq stuff) but even when I'm casing someone for being scum I generally try to treat them with respect in case they're actually town and I think that's something everyone could stand to do (as opposed to "I don't have to read your posts you desperate scumbag *smugpose*)

[NekoNekoRex]

Speaking allegorically Conq is in the ideal scum position. Yank enough levers early on while the game isnt under control, to give the town the impression he's playing well. Put an axe in the back of the conductors (Prims, Fabloo, etc) who know well enough to still put scrutiny on him, and let the train drive itself into the station (mislynching Oarfish, Serela, Dan, etc) without doing anything else because nobody else knows how to steer.

His d2 play feels stilted (the PR gambit and sudden switch off Shadoweh), but it finally crumbles out from under his feet when you realize he was laying the tracks towards townies no matter what.

D3 was just him getting complacent and laying low.

[NekoNekoRex]

Lynching smartbomb is the only thing he can do, because the masons were content just to do nothing but ram the speed higher, and Serela and raikaria are too busy scrambling in panic while the engine overheats, all he would have had to do was pull a single lever and throw another easy townie on the tracks, and smartbomb won't let him

[NekoNekoRex]

The most important thing to remember is that in a game with 2450 posts and enough text to fill a novel, the only words that actually matter are the ones that start with a ## in front of them

[NekoNekoRex]

What's very interesting is that despite the fact that zgowkfmsjajgktkwkcng has had loads of criticism lobbied against him every single day, neither Conq nor sb has been willing to vote him even once

[NekoNekoRex]

They've shown theyre quite willing to vote Dan and Neik for largely the same behavior, however.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[NekoNekoRex]

Also oarfish with dan and neik, oarfish has been in the same policy lurker lynch pool all game

[NekoNekoRex]

Zeep being offline is towny

feel free to slide into my dms for tips if you are town

[NekoNekoRex]

Scum team getting real quiet now that their train has been gapped off the rails and thrown right back at them...

[Serela]

sb why has dan been posting more than you since d3

[ActionDan]

I'll be on in a couple hours

[Kilgamayan]

sb and zwerdjib have been prodded for inactivity.

No change in the vote count since Vote Count 4.1.