how do i like posts on this site
is there a way to stalk someone's activity on this site
is there a way i can know who specifically is currently viewing this thread
oop I completely didn't consider this might be an issue
When voting and unvoting, please use the syntax ##Vote: {name} and ##Unvote: {name}. It makes it easier to count votes for the purposes of updating the vote count!
I hardclaim town. Now you can't possibly scumread me or vote me.
Checkmate, noobs.
I hardclaim town. Now you can't possibly scumread me or vote me.SO NANOK-wait, I'm not Rumia...
Just stalk them on discord and other sites instead, ez.
##vote: shadoweh let's just get this over with >:)
Can I add you on Linkedin?
do we need to unvote before shifting vote?Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
do we need to unvote before shifting vote?
(translator's note:So nanoka=Is that so?)
I must remember to never ever edit my posts because mafia. We don't want a repeat of... the incident
Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
I would prefer it for the sake of completeness, if possible.
(translator's note:So nanoka=Is that so?)
I must remember to never ever edit my posts because mafia. We don't want a repeat of... the incident
Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
(god why after posting does it not just bring me to my post instead of the forum)theres an option for this actually
Mafia in general is something you don't want to touch ever again.
theres an option for this actually
this is true. however a certain goat invited me to this gameSame, I was invited by a certain cutest cutie ever.
god help me if he flakes on me like he did when he invited me to play 451
Same, I was invited by a certain cutest cutie ever.
Dusk flakes? He was pretty active the few games I played with him on MU.
int scum =##Vote: (User);
define alignment(Shadoweh)
{
// Why the hell did I decide to do this?
// Is the above comment referring to joining mafia or typing like this?
if (Shadoweh)
cout <<"scum"
}
##Vote: Shadoweh
My new computer is dead on arrival. This sub-par tea ontop of that has driven me into a deep depression from what I fear I may never return. I'm going to write a sad letter to the seller as I spice my tea with lye.Quick, un-uncancel the other to the other computer! All hope is not lost yet Celery! And you might not even modkill yourself by editing a post.
##Vote:Serela
Vote Count 1.1
O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (1): Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (3): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (1): Shadoweh
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Serela
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (1): Xinnidy
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (1): Serela
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (1): AbuHumaid
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (1): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0):
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (1): Nuxl
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0):
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (6): O4rfish, Prims, Refa, NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98, Niektory
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have a little over 3 days (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
// The great thing about this post restriction is that I can kind of cheat by just putting comments everywhere.
// But, of course, I refuse.
// I also realized that I can't phone post while at work due to this. Alas.
define Question2
{
The fact that Shadoweh has a small wagon growing on her, and that there are 16 other available players to vote, she picks the person that first voted for her seems suspicious to me.
}
define Question3
{
To be more specific, I believe that it is a subconsious OMGUS vote which betrays a scum mindset.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question2)
ask (Question3)
}
define Question4
{
So what do you propose in lieu of my theory?
}
define Question5
{
Or are you fine with being lethargic and maintaining the RVS?
}
Query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question4)
ask (Question5)
}
int unvote =##Unvote
define Question6
{
How is voting for someone who has yet to make a post "making content"?
}
define Question7
{
So you're effectively trying to table my discussion of Shadoweh's vote by dismissing it for her and replacing it with what is, at best, a lurker prod?
}
define Alignment(zwerdjib)
{
if (zwerdijb)
cout <<"unvote""scum"
}
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
// Fixed a formatting error.
Need to figure out how to make pms shoot me an email
Im here
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
sucks to be one of the first six then doesnt it
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
ive no ides but for what its worth i am now inclined to lynch shadoweh
im joking of course
##unvote refa
##vote shadoweh
um... do you accept negatives?
i did wanna spark a discussion though, and i was not disappointed
how do you get to idle out of the game on smogon and then get to sit here spamming refresh
i figured that's my job
simple: i get email notifs for this game
i think youre just overthinking this my friend
you get those on smogon too
also im not getting anything
+1
define Question4
{
So what do you propose in lieu of my theory?
}
define Question5
{
Or are you fine with being lethargic and maintaining the RVS?
}
Query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question4)
ask (Question5)
}
um... do you accept negatives?
i did wanna spark a discussion though, and i was not disappointed
what's your thing with neko? angleshoot?
what's your thing with neko? angleshoot?
did it say i was on? i just got the email
just slightly bothered by the wording of what he said, but the more i think on it the less i think its a slip
so ill probs unvote after i put some pressure on
I can tell this game is going to be mainly me fiddling around with mentality a lot.
What pressure are you putting on a slot that hasn't posted yet?
I didn't realize there was a second page until after I posted so I didn't realize Conq was voting me
That said conq thinking he can get away with a tiny post is scummy b/c that's his scum meta
please assist me in beating conq like a pinyata until the posts come out this is the closest ill ever get to conq carrying me again
wtf no one told me that the game started
/vote refa
im curious as to how our character picks will impact the game. yours seems the strongest, so perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way
...wait, how did all 3 of you happen to enter thread at rhe same time
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
hmm. solid reaction.
townlean
(justification for nnr vote is like a page back iirc)
unvoting shadoweh wasnt necessarily in response to dormios post, more addressing the thing that pinged me about neko
How big of a pushover are you lmao
It's a genuine question. It is in fact, relevant for me.
In context of your mafia games anyway.
and i could maybe link some mafia games ive previously played tomorrow (might be hard though i cant remember many off the top of my head)
wasn't asking for this but would be appreciated regardless. i dont think i'll need yours though but it'll help.
i mean my self awareness isnt up to par is what im saying
idgi
whats slank lynching policy on this site? how much lurking is generally tolerated until we realize "wait X wagon is t/t lets lynch a lurker instead and see if thats a better vote" or smth like that
am just curious
ill pause here because afaict not many developments have risen so ill wait and see where the thread goes. perhaps i can have a readslist done ~12h before dl at the pace this game is advancing
i considered not responding, think i'll do more of that, but i have made a mental decision after reading that
hahaha why did you post this
I didn't realize there was a second page until after I posted so I didn't realize Conq was voting me
That said conq thinking he can get away with a tiny post is scummy b/c that's his scum meta
please assist me in beating conq like a pinyata until the posts come out this is the closest ill ever get to conq carrying me again
Jesus Christ y'all need to learn to stop posting.
##unvote
##vote:shadoweh
walk me through your thoughts here, can you explain what my scum meta is and how that applied to my post
nuxl what are you thinking
is there an archive somewhere cuz it looks like there's nothing here? when was the last game?https://shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=14201.0
@duskfall98
point is i already have (minute) reason to suspect him and thats the best i have right nowwhat's the minute reason? i looked through your posts but i dont think i see anything?
https://shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=14201.0
```Do you mean in general?```i meant wrt that zwerd post you quoted but in general is fine too (although i'd be surprised if you had many thoughts so far)
what's the minute reason? i looked through your posts but i dont think i see anything?
##Vote: Nuxl
Too much posting that isn't actually productive and spends more time talking about Nuxl's own thought process in a gamestate where there isn't really much to think about; it reads like scum trying to bait early townreads to me.
oh my god why does no one read page 3 T_T
for future reference i'm usually conservative on posting my reads publicly. the mentality of how you are perceived versus what you might say could impact thread flow and scum reaction is a dilemma i face every dayit sounded like you were asking for someone else to react to that post, which is why i asked. i guess the post didnt stand out to me as something i'd vote zwerd over.
For my amusement, I have decided I think I will shame whoever votes him for that post. Is "why" important?
its the weird entrance post where he accidentally says he doesnt know how to open a pmhow would that NOT be nai? everyone had to open a pm this game.
its ALMOST nai but i think its just ai enough to pressure him over and see what happens
how would that NOT be nai? everyone had to open a pm this game.
it sounded like you were asking for someone else to react to that post, which is why i asked. i guess the post didnt stand out to me as something i'd vote zwerd over.
i never thought anybody should vote zwer over that post no, thought i made it clear when i reacted to refayour reaction to refa was over his initial zwerd vote though? i thought this was a different reaction you were making to the post zwerd made about slank lynches.
i don't think people pick up my crypticism sometimes. habit of being open masons with hal
misquote; i meant "make" not "open"okay but how does that change things, i want to know why you think that makes him more likely scum than town
your reaction to refa was over his initial zwerd vote though? i thought this was a different reaction you were making to the post zwerd made about slank lynches.
okay but how does that change things, i want to know why you think that makes him more likely scum than town
the q was for fun. read like a post someone new on my homesite would make
ah, ok then.
do you have any strong meta tells on anyone here in particular? does anybody have any strong meta tells on anybody?
this is relevant to my first "job"
unless you have a better suggestion?i dont think anyone will follow you on nnr because i can already guess the response he's going to make and then what are you going to do? say ok and drop it? wow so much pressure.
most of us havent played mafia in ages and even if we did idr anyone having super high confidence reads on anyone.
also id love to ping tommy to pop in but im psure thats illegal given noc rules so fire truck
i dont think anyone will follow you on nnr because i can already guess the response he's going to make and then what are you going to do? say ok and drop it? wow so much pressure.
this is assuming hes town, of course, i assume?this isnt assuming anything about nnr's flip, it's just a push that goes nowhere in 99% of cases.
im still gonna take this course and you cannot stop me. tbh you should help instead. at least shadoweh has said *words*.
i think conversely because of page 3 actually
(justification for nnr vote is like a page back iirc)
Can you explain this one further?
Nuxl, I don't get why you think there's a load of content. Literally nothing has interested me except Zwerd and the Conq/Shadoweh exchange.
Zwerd, please don't focus on meta so much because to my knowledge it doesn't exist.
Didn't say this. But meta makes people readable.
a good portion the game has readable content
Okay but explain why you disagree with my vote.
Referring to this.
I mean MotK meta, not individuals' meta. I think meta reading is going to be weak for other reasons (most people haven't played in a while, so they'll play differently), but there's at least merit to that.
Conq, what's your opinion on Zwerd? You've mentioned why his push is weak but no thoughts on the slot itself.don't have an actual read on his slot atm. think he generally reads awkward and hyperactive but that's not alignment indicative. i'm not actually sure what you were getting at wrt the post you voted him for, unless it's just gut due to the way he phrased it.
You were already voting me conq :VI was revoting you for emphasis you goonhead. Answer my question though.
a good portion the game has readable contentReally only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
Really only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
If I entered a game thread with lots of players from different communities and nobody was saying they had any strong meta reads, I would simply conclude there were no strong meta reads yet. Really Nuxl reads like a fake ass fire trucker to me; I think there's more effort being put into feeling out the room and establishing himself right now than reading others, and establishing yourself earlygame I think is something scum with an active playstyle like to do. Town who want to establish themselves are more likely to do so through their productivity and not by talking about their "job in the game" in a game where half the players haven't posted more than jokevotes.
Refa, how passionate are you about your vote on zwerd (relative to earlygame)?
Personally I can't see myself wanting to lynch zwerd today ever but I did have the same initial reaction to his jokevote on you so I can almost understand where you're coming from.
Weirded out by both Conq and Shadoweh on a gut level so I'm interested to see where that goes. it would be good if they both made comprehensive posts with opinions.
it would be good if they both made comprehensive posts with opinions.don't do this to me, i'm trying to take it easy this game.
i do this pretty (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-rewind-night-3.3657400/) often (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/immorality-mafia-n2.3659383/) actually.I forget, does smogon have an ISO feature? Don't have time to read games rn.
dunno how you're weirded by conq
I forget, does smogon have an ISO feature? Don't have time to read games rn.
Can get back to you about Conq later.
(also my biggest tell is my postcount depending on my alignment but i think it's more productive for people to do their research anyway)oops! means it's not a tell anymore haha
I get a "requested page can't be found" from that link
Being cryptic has its place; I think the fact that you're hyper-posting while doing it is what's rubbing me the wrong way. when I was reading the thread it came off like you're trying to make a big impression while avoiding actually making any big waves and it felt unnatural.
FWIW I'm personally not worried about outing tells as I think tells are always circumstantial to begin with, although I think how and when you attack somebody with a tell has an effect in the context of a single game (This is a digression and not relevant to my read on anybody)
Thinking further evolution of my current reads is going to depend on how the people in question interact with people who haven't posted yet, so gonna duck out for now.
i dunno how much this site takes meta into account i kinda went under the premise people sort of know how each other play and thus could make >rand accurate reads because of multiple games with each otherThe main issue is that motk mafia was on hold for literally 5 years, so unless they've been playing with eachother on other sites it'll be a lot harder to do meta-reads. Although not impossible!
if that's not the case here then i'll just drop that assumption
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
}
I was revoting you for emphasis you goonhead. Answer my question though.I know I'm just saying you can't threaten me with things you're already doing..
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
This has to be the worst post of all time. Refa is targeting Zwerdjib, and Nuxl defends him by saying "Zwerdjib probably seems scummy as town and towny as scum. I will protect him."
implying one of two things: "The people who want to lynch Zwerdjib are trying to lynch a scum-seeming towny player, therefore those people have revealed themselves to be the actual scum;"
or "Zwerdjib is acting very scummy therefore he is very town."
I think it deserves a vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Nuxl
and someone named Prims is ... wait, is Prims short for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?
you ever approach a slot and be like "this person does not align towards what my usual expectations of a mafia player is"? how do you approach their slot @O4rfish?
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
// Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
(zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
define Statement2
{
I would also like to say that (Nuxl) is failing to impress as well. Refusing to explain opinions by hiding behind the shield that he calls "meta" is questionable, to say the least. If I had a second vote, it would go on him.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement1)
ask (Statement2)
return (Opinions)
}
Why the fire truck would you post three posts within ten minutes, after I JUST ASKED YOU TO CUT THAT strawberries OUT?
Try thinking about your posts BEFORE you post them, which even could be (and should be) AFTER you write them. More content in fewer posts - this would be easier for other people (such as me) to read and understand.
Unless your priority is filling up the thread instead of getting other people to read and understand what you write. That would be scummy, so if you're scum you should keep doing what you're doing.
In response to your point about implications that aren't there, Nuxl, you said "anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana"
You are threatening people, and I made assumptions as to what the threat was, and the reason for making this threat. I will place an apology in escrow on the condition that those assumptions were incorrect.
Therefore: please explain fully AND IN ONE SINGLE POST what your threat was, and why it was justified (from a Town perspective).
I will say this: when a person makes me think "person is playing Mafia in a backwards manner" my response is not "I must protect that person"
define Statement3
{
It's really stupid to go off somebody's established meta if that meta is well known. And it's even worse if the aforementioned meta is simply being outright stated in the thread. If people know that there is a certain expectation of them, then it's really easy to subvert that particular expectation in order to fulfill whatever need you have at the time.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement3)
return (Opinions)
}
define Question8
{
Ignoring the fact that I disagree with (Nuxl) wholly on the statement of meta, does (Nuxl) have an actual opinion on any of the players who have posted so far?
}
define Statement4
{
A lot of what (Nuxl) has posted so far boils down an argument about a meta read that I, personally, couldn't care less about and arguments surrounding the usage of aforementioned meta. If anything, it seems like it's detracting from the entire scumhunting effort and serves as little more than a distraction.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
ask (Question8)
ask (Statement4)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
loop (Statement2)
}
whats slank lynching policy on this site? how much lurking is generally tolerated until we realize "wait X wagon is t/t lets lynch a lurker instead and see if thats a better vote" or smth like that
he rolled scum without me and thus did not post for all of d1 ;)Could this be a scumtell? :thonk:
im fairly certain that case was the exception to the rule, and he should be able to answer that better himself. the game is specifically the most recent ranked game on 451
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana##Vote: Nuxl
ok so i cant multiquote efficiently on mobile so forgive me if i need to make 3 posts one second
Zwerd, please don't focus on meta so much because to my knowledge it doesn't exist. Just makes it harder reading you TBH.
I mean MotK meta, not individuals' meta. I think meta reading is going to be weak for other reasons (most people haven't played in a while, so they'll play differently), but there's at least merit to that.
Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid. Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.
Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum
I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it.
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
// Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
(zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement1)
return (Opinions)
}
##Vote: Nuxl
You were subtly defending zwerd for weak reasons (yes meta is weak most of the time) then when you get called out on it you say it's a joke in #193?
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
did it say i was on? i just got the email
just slightly bothered by the wording of what he said, but the more i think on it the less i think its a slip
so ill probs unvote after i put some pressure on
don't have an actual read on his slot atm. think he generally reads awkward and hyperactive but that's not alignment indicative. i'm not actually sure what you were getting at wrt the post you voted him for, unless it's just gut due to the way he phrased it.
Really only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
If I entered a game thread with lots of players from different communities and nobody was saying they had any strong meta reads, I would simply conclude there were no strong meta reads yet. Really Nuxl reads like a fake ass fire trucker to me; I think there's more effort being put into feeling out the room and establishing himself right now than reading others, and establishing yourself earlygame I think is something scum with an active playstyle like to do. Town who want to establish themselves are more likely to do so through their productivity and not by talking about their "job in the game" in a game where half the players haven't posted more than jokevotes.
Refa, how passionate are you about your vote on zwerd (relative to earlygame)?
Personally I can't see myself wanting to lynch zwerd today ever but I did have the same initial reaction to his jokevote on you so I can almost understand where you're coming from.
##Unvote
##Vote: Prims
idg why you'd think us talking is weird or suspicious Mr. huh what Prims Jesus, if anything me bothering Conq to see if he's town should be nostalgic because I like being able to trust people.
MotKtown: where the scum is scummy and town stopped playing.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
I don't understand your Prims vote. It feels like a reaction that's disproportionate to what Prims actually posted, like "this is confusing and I want to see where it goes" => "it shouldn't be confusing, you're wrong". Why would that be something voteworthy instead of a point of disagreement?
I don't have a strong read on Nuxl yet but I think the suspicions on his slot are kinda wonky. Rather than being align indicative yet I feel like he's somewhere between excited and culture-shocked. Oarfish, if Zeep was actually a townie instead of scum (whcih seems to be the angle you're pursuing right now), how would that change your current suspicion on Nuxl?
##Vote: Nuxl
You were subtly defending zwerd for weak reasons (yes meta is weak most of the time) then when you get called out on it you say it's a joke in #193?
Hey Nuxl, my impression is that you don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but if you had to scumread someone, who would it be and why?
Nuxl. Seriously. Slow down. Over a third of the posts in the topic is yours.Do you have any thoughts
Fair enough. Reread him and I can see what you mean about him being awkward. I agree that he definitely wasn't coached, but I don't think that makes him less likely to be scum. TBH reading stuff like this
Still annoys me because like...I can see the second line as coming from a townie, and the third line feels kind of self defeating for town to do.
I can get the reasoning behind the NNR vote now. Overall, I'd say like...I'm null on his slot ATM and am more confused where the strong "would not lynch" reads are coming from.
Sidenote: I just realized NNR and Niekstory were different users.
It's gut because it doesn't read like a town mindset for someone to be like "if this town dies, maybe the entire town gets a powerup".
Could this be a scumtell? :thonk:
nevermind im a wizard
(and his addendum)
(im going to assume the addendum is addressed to me too @ refa)
this is actually the exact opposite of what im doing (except asking about lurker policy, thats its own thing) and it does really help to understand expectations of players of the site as it gives me some insight into what is likely to happen. i dont, however, blindly believe in meta as a tool to push people - very different from nuxl here - but i think an established pattern is hard to break and at the very least something of a starting point. a guideline more than a metric
with that said i still believe we should be totally pushing people, regardless of what their projected reaction will be. and i believe you agree with me there. so this is more like a reiteration than argument
well this is an annoying and unhealthy mindset
of course we are going to dick around and say literally nothing. thats what was happening before lol
i would love to scumhunt with 2 pages of nothingness but im afraid thats simply not feasible. though i get the feeling youre talking more about post volume here
im going to defend nuxl here because the sites we come from are, for some people, literally considered one and the same so i understand why he carries the posting style he does. post style/volume is generally nai so its kind of unfair to read him for this
otoh if you are genuinely talking about his content, youre not actually pulling any examples to criticize so i dont see where youre going with that
final note: what benefit does it bring to mafia to clutter thread when you can. yknow. isolate posts. i would like to know
you sure you want my opinions? you havent seemed to like them thus far, heh
well, for the third time, the nnr thing is the best thing i have. i dont think reading into shadoweh/conq will do much good for me (especially since that appears to be related to site meta, which is exactly what youre criticizing) so i may as fire trucking well see how far we may get with a lurker.
i will, of course, change my mind if anything happens but so far we have gotten almost nowhere in 7 pages. this is an attempt to try to get somewhere
(sorry this took all morning. breakfast -> bus -> check-in eats a lot of time up)
What do you think your vote is currently accomplishing right now? There is a correct answer to this
nothing. help me out tbqh
Do you have any thoughtsMy thoughts: This is my first game and all the heavy lingo is making my head hurt.
The answer is just going to make you mad though, I said that to bug you and you're reacting by being more pushy and considering putting in effort, which is cute and townie of you. I decided while mining iridium that I should stop bugging you when I think you're reaction is townie. :kassgiggle:Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?
My thoughts: This is my first game and all the heavy lingo is making my head hurt.A lot of other people also have yet to vote. What do you think of all the lingo and arguments that have been thrown around so far?
Also NNR still has yet to vote.
##Unvote: Dormio
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?
I don't actually get your Prims vote atm, is it just because he found us suspicious in a throwaway line? It feels like you were just trying to find a way to get your vote off me and picked Prims for some reason I can't really figure out.
Ah and I just read sb's vote and he's saying the same stuff, cool.
Wrt nuxl since he seems to be a topic of interest, I don't have a townread on him per se but a lot of the pressure on him is coming from what I feel is playstyle difference stuff which is almost always null. Will have to digest some of the posts people are making about him later when I get back from work since my mind is skimming over them atm.
zwerd post an actual opinion on people, enough stuff has happened that you can do that by now. i dont see why the nnr thing could be the best thing you have when it's almost quite literally nothing compared to all the stuff in here recently.
testing to see if there's a word filter. fire truck. firetruck. fu.ck.
There is a word filter but it can be turned off locally in one's profile page (under the Look and Layout options).
Vote Count 1.3
O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (2): Raikaria, Shadoweh
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (0): sb, Niektory
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (4): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan, zwerdjib, Conqueror, sb, Refa
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Shadoweh
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Serela
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (1): Xinnidy
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (1): Serela
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (1): AbuHumaid, Dormio Ergo Sum, O4rfish, Refa
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (2): zwerdjib, Niektory
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (1): Nuxl
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (3): Prims, O4rfish, AbuHumaid
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (2): NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have a tremendous number of nanoseconds remaining (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
NekoNekoRex and Duskfall98 have been prodded for inactivity. The more things change!
*Gets in from work after train cancellations and being a sardine*
*7 new pages*
Well some things don't change. Also if I'm inactive for a little bit over 24 hours give me some leeway before a prod, it's probably trains.
I look at the votecount and immediately some people seemingly doublevoting and votes in bold and italics stand out.
I have some more immediate matters to attend to, I'll be back within the next 2 hours so I can properly read and such.
those are vote history, not doublevotes
Makes sense, I'd only skimmed the very top of the pile.
Anyway, it seems the majority of the posts are zwerdjib and Nuxl posting everything that pops into their brains and overthinking things. Something that keeps coming up is "Meta".
Allow me to address that:
1: It's been like; 2~3 years since the last MotK Mafia. The "Meta" could likly have changed. Especially considering there are new players so even if everyone played the same, new players could disrupt the "Meta"
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
Except we also have players who always low-effort like NekoNekoRex. And of course, people's lives have changed. My activity is going to be absolutely nowhere near where it used to be, for example.
tl;dr: You newcomers really shouldn't worry about the "Meta". Your very existence makes any previous "Meta" irrelevant anyway.
What are your thoughts on Prims' Nuxl read? The other ones seemed kinda wack to me (logic wise) but I thought that one was decent.
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
Zeep, what alignment would you guess Nuxl as? There's a lot of Nuxl defence but I don't actually know what your read on him is. Cut: my question was literally "what do you think of Nuxl" so respond to this, I guess.
Nuxl, if I told you Oarfish has had a number of dubious plays in past games (remembering the Serela vengekill still makes me want to scream a little), what would your read on them be? I think seeing your notes now rather than later is good.
me (this section is townlocks and a joke in this context)
refa
nuxl
you
dormio
prims (?)
almost everyone else
i feel like theres someone i forgot that definitely goes here dankpuff
<n/a>
<n/a>
I'm already demotivated, mafia sucks. Someone needs to post something I can get an actually legit scum read off of.
this is kind of a bad q right? im not interested in forcing a read i currently don't have if it's not high confidence
but homework for you: can you look at o4rfish's initial two posts on page 7 and tell me what you think? i think the skill level of that player is very important for my read on them. ignore the other posts they have, i have prewritten notes on the page for the other posts but need to know if what im seeing is just me
i think shadowehs page 4 was a weak ping (i even responded to it! guys im scumhunting omg)bc that sort of declaration was made like 5 hours itg. If I had to connect it, it reminds me of something tbz did as scum to justify his rvs vote on smogon rewind on smogon dot com. so i can see the votes behind it. i don't mega hate the prims vote post but also do not remember it at this point of time
at this point of the game townreads are more important because you have a poe to work under. it's easier to correctly identify somebody as town and work under a winning poe than scumreading honestly. in the latter you are easily able to make a declaration of "this person does not feel town" and thus can shove them in for later
of course, happens in games with eggs in one basket players
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
That does explain things (also sorry if it seems like we're hassling you about this). Zwerd, can you explain your reads on Nuxl/SB/Dormio and also look at Shadoweh's posts (there are only like two so it should be easy) and comment on her wagon?
Makes sense, I'd only skimmed the very top of the pile.
Anyway, it seems the majority of the posts are zwerdjib and Nuxl posting everything that pops into their brains and overthinking things. Something that keeps coming up is "Meta".
Allow me to address that:
1: It's been like; 2~3 years since the last MotK Mafia. The "Meta" could likly have changed. Especially considering there are new players so even if everyone played the same, new players could disrupt the "Meta"
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
Except we also have players who always low-effort like NekoNekoRex. And of course, people's lives have changed. My activity is going to be absolutely nowhere near where it used to be, for example.
tl;dr: You newcomers really shouldn't worry about the "Meta". Your very existence makes any previous "Meta" irrelevant anyway.
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
Zeep, what alignment would you guess Nuxl as? There's a lot of Nuxl defence but I don't actually know what your read on him is. Cut: my question was literally "what do you think of Nuxl" so respond to this, I guess.
Nuxl, if I told you Oarfish has had a number of dubious plays in past games (remembering the Serela vengekill still makes me want to scream a little), what would your read on them be? I think seeing your notes now rather than later is good.
It's less forcing a read and more trying to see where your thought process is at the moment.
I don't like talking about people's skill levels but I think Oarfish being really confident in his reads (and the logic being wack) is...something I can see coming from him as town. Disclaimer: I have never played with Scum Oarfish, but I wouldn't scumread him just because the logic doesn't check out.
This is more of a gameplay difference thing so don't wanna derail things too much but it is easier for scum to fake townreads than to fake scumreads; townreads are still important and honestly I agree so much easier to get earlier in the game, but yeah.
I'm too lazy to quote here but how experienced is Zwerd? I feel like it was mentioned before but I don't remember.
Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?Good good, we have a lot of material to make for Len so you'd better keep performing :-* (the more you post the townier you sound so etc)
I don't actually get your Prims vote atm, is it just because he found us suspicious in a throwaway line? It feels like you were just trying to find a way to get your vote off me and picked Prims for some reason I can't really figure out.I guess that's not entirely wrong, I didn't feel like voting you anymore and I didn't like that he was framing us as a fight when there is... a lot of other material to look at that should be grabbing more attention at that phase. Has he posted again btw, i don't think he has but its hard to see. :V Regardless I've decided flailing blindly in random directions was a much better meta then waiting to be sure about stuff has been working on mofiascum.
Shadoweh's response isn't good, but if you look at her followup posts this whole thing can be viewed as a triple word score "Just joking ... unless? Also flirty" poke at Conq.Perfect, just as planned :relieved:
I guess that's not entirely wrong, I didn't feel like voting you anymore and I didn't like that he was framing us as a fight when there is... a lot of other material to look at that should be grabbing more attention at that phase. Has he posted again btw, i don't think he has but its hard to see.
Abu, how was the part you quoted subtle? I understand the rest of what you're saying (but don't think it's scummy) but I don't think that Nuxl has tried to keep the fact he's defending Zeep on the down-low at all. Why is Nuxl here scum defending Zeep instead of town defending Zeep? What would you expect to be different?It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
what other material are you referring to and do you have "attention" to give to said material? why is "should" importantrephrasing my last question: why should some things warrant more attention than others
It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
I do declare that Dormio and Oarfish come off as "the townie" to me as well, I frown at SB for bullying me for trying to have fun, trying to be a grumpypants is scummy. We should enjoy ourselves here, you can't let common sense hold you back in Gensokyo!
don't get what you mean by "reflects badly". why would their read reflect badly on me
dubious plays as both alignments or just as town? if it's just the latter then that's way more important thanks
I frown at SB for bullying me for trying to have fun, trying to be a grumpypants is scummy. We should enjoy ourselves here, you can't let common sense hold you back in Gensokyo!
did you clearly read the post you're saying that had "pressure"? did you even read my response to you orOops, I think I did misread the post LOL, but it really looked like O4rfish was questioning your read, and not the threat, so I was confused.
and i happen to exude baseless confidence naturally. i've even linked my iso for you! :)
Like I said, MotK and SF have traditionally been more scumhunting focused than townhunting focused and so generally townreads on people would just emerge from them posting organically and their cases looking like they have thought into them and are likely to come from town mindsets, rather than people trying to prove their alignment outright. This is why I think Prims scumread you effectively and why I think it makes sense for him to do it even if I don't agree with it. Obviously though I know it's not an all or nothing thing wrt scumhunting or townhunting so if there still wasn't much of the former later it'd be weird.
I don't know if its both alignments because I don't actually remember a game with scum Oarfish, but they are definitely not good to read with uh, traditional expectations in mind, I'd say. The explanation makes sense I guess.
Oops, I think I did misread the post LOL, but it really looked like O4rfish was questioning your read, and not the threat, so I was confused.
And fine I'll read that ISO.
rephrasing my last question: why should some things warrant more attention than othersMe joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
Me joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
you asked for my notes, i gave you them. do you have any thoughts on them and how they reflect the slot/player in question or are they not safe to share as of yet
I do have one more thought about how to read into Oarfish, but saying it right now is a waste.
Me joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
yeah, but what's your query with my read? wasn't the first time i defended the slot this game. is confidence really alignment indicative iyo? (or is it indicative from where you're from or something)Yes, right now your baseless confidence is what I don't like about your read because I don't think you have solid reasons. I already explained this.
i was kind of half-trolling with the last line, but the resource is there
@sb About Zeep, I don't think he has done anything that makes me feel strongly about him. I think I have to go backread some of his posts because honestly, I have been skimming; reading is hard.were only on page 9 though :D
@sb About Zeep, I don't think he has done anything that makes me feel strongly about him. I think I have to go backread some of his posts because honestly, I have been skimming; reading is hard.
Checking in to avoid more prods.you better read all 10 pages before writing a post
Need to Actualy Set Up Email this time.
I'll slam a post after work, which is around 4 hours
was your page 4 post serious? genuine questionThe first sentence is serious, the second is slightly serious but he's definitely not doing that, and of course beating conq like a pinyata is 100% serious because he likes it that way.
Shadoweh, did you miss Prims' 168 or were you just not happy with it, because I felt like he covered the Zeep and Nuxl interactions there.Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.
define Question9
{
How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?
}
define Question10
{
Are we really going to be arguing about the semantics of metagaming for the entirety of day 1?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question9)
ask (Question10)
}
define Statement5
{
(zwerdjib)'s latest posts still don't impress me. I think that giving townreads is a placating move that, as someone mentioned earlier, is easy to fake as scum and serves only to slightly endear you towards some people.
// This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read.
// On top of that, formatting my posts like this is also a huge pain.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement5)
}
if (Reply #278 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1060#msg1060))
{
cout <<Yes.
}
Yes.
Also if I have a second vote right now it goes on Serela for making a drive-by post to a drive-by comment just because I suspect he'll be in the same place 24 hours from now (Serela this is your queue to make an actual post, I know you can do better).My free time to post since the game has started has been "it's slow at work so let's give this a look" at which point I went "dear lord the entire thread is nuxl spam get me out of here." Anyway, reading up now! (Also, I managed to fix the computer, which was what took up all my free time at home. OMG I went to lay in bed while it installed windows updates and restarted and when I plopped in bed and glanced at the computer, I was like, WAIT IT'S ALREADY BACK ON THE DESKTOP SCREEN WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S DONE THAT WAS TEN SECONDS. SSDs are a trip)
I'm already demotivated, mafia sucks. Someone needs to post something I can get an actually legit scum read off of.Oh god I feel you. Day 1 is absolute suffering but the game usually starts to enter 'enjoyable' somewhere around mid/late day 2... @_@
Can't help but read Serela's four posts that say nothing about the game as "hey guys, remember all those times I was really wacky acting and secretly trying to kill you! I'm totally not doing that now!"I wasn't going to publish this post just yet but there's clearly a clamoring for it so I'll post what I already have typed up as I reread inbetween work tasks :V Also, which person are you again? Even if you aren't LEGACY MOTK I'm sure I at least know you from eimm or the discord but man that username
Don't really think Shadoweh is scummy for the vote on me though and honestly unless she got ballsier in the last few years I think as scum she would be thinking NO PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT ME and not press the issue at all lmao.YOU MUST BE LEGACY MOTK WHO ARE YOU
define Question9
{
How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?
}
define Question10
{
Are we really going to be arguing about the semantics of metagaming for the entirety of day 1?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question9)
ask (Question10)
}
define Statement5
{
(zwerdjib)'s latest posts still don't impress me. I think that giving townreads is a placating move that, as someone mentioned earlier, is easy to fake as scum and serves only to slightly endear you towards some people.
// This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read.
// On top of that, formatting my posts like this is also a huge pain.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement5)
}
im *flips through userbook of old motk mafia posters* ...Hanged Hourai*SOBS* YOUR NAME ISN'T EVEN IN THE PLAYERLIST I DON'T UNDERSTAND
Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.HAVE WE ALREADY COMMENCED THE SHADOWEH BULLYING :D
Wait this is the post he did before I voted wtf don't confuse me sb
I had the exact same thought about Serela as Conq did, let's get his ass.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
Niektory maybe low content newb!scum t b h.
@Nuxl is Niektory actually Flee Fleet. I didn't play in any of that person's SF games but I recognize the name.
I thought Shadoweh's vote on me made no sense when she posted it, since I could only take it as "no you actually wouldn't logically have an illogical gut feeling about this", but other people already talked about that. but yeah I couldn't tell what angle Conq and Shadoweh were going for with their votes and it seemed weird and I wanted to see how it'd play out, feel reasonably good about them both now though. Don't really think Shadoweh is scummy for the vote on me though and honestly unless she got ballsier in the last few years I think as scum she would be thinking NO PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT ME and not press the issue at all lmao.
Read on Nuxl now is that he's somebody who likes using the thread as a chatroom. I looked at the games he linked and I still feel uneasy about him though? His posting here feels toothless compared to those games; it may be because he's in a new environment but I don't see any clear scumhunting effort coming from him.
We should lynch someone today.
What scum want is to run out the clock. Town is trying to get a bunch of useful information before the lynch. Scum will try to prevent most or all of the day's posts from being useful after the lynch. Thus, scum will make (or let) town waste time and energy doing unproductive things such as reading tons of low-content posts. Players are lazy and don't want to read that much. Have you seen how many people complain about the number of pages in this thread?
Of course, that's if scum are smart. Lazy or unprofessional scum will simply do scummy things such as buddying, voteparking, drive-bys, etc.
Shadoweh you have a not-insignificant wagon so you need to provide something of value to town. I don't think repeatedly defending your early D1 posts is valuable.
SB - if I (as town) somehow knew that Zwerdjib was town, I would still view Nuxl as scummy. Nuxl says "this person is town; I will defend this person" which at face value is only slightly valuable. His defense is that Zwerdjib reminds him of some other player which means Zwerdjib is town somehow ... and the threat to defend him was a joke. This is such poor play it's worthy of ridicule. Tell me SB, am I wasting everyone's time by pressing him on this?
What's the problem of pushing a wagon in general, @Serela?not really what I said, I asked a question to all those voting shadoweh because I don't really see why she has apparent votability, and made an offhand comment before that that we don't need to be super worried about pushing wagons to lynchable levels yet because we still have plenty of time (since o4rfish brought it up in the post beforehand)
not really what I said, I asked a question to all those voting shadoweh because I don't really see why she has apparent votability, and made an offhand comment before that that we don't need to be super worried about pushing wagons to lynchable levels yet because we still have plenty of time (since o4rfish brought it up in the post beforehand)
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
NNR and Duskfall effectively haven't posted at all. Raikaria -has- made posts, and has responded to other players, so there's actually something there to place judgment on.
OH SORRY NUXL I DIDN'T REPLY
TBH, I don't remember Flee...Fleet, whatever the other part of his name is. I feel like he was newb town but I don't like...remember anything about him?
Is there some way to ISO people and if so, how do?
you better read all 10 pages before writing a posti got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
lol thats literally what i expected but f u for posting before conq could reply to my post trolling himahhh screw you. my reply was just going to be prims pls but i didnt want to give you the satisfaction >:(
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
do you have any strong meta tells on anyone here in particular? does anybody have any strong meta tells on anybody?a lot of his posts refer to meta (the ones Ive read up to) but these kinda stood out to me.
this is relevant to my first "job"
visible confusionsays the guy who hopped to vote me based off a misquote
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
says the guy who hopped to vote me based off a misquote
pardon?are you still calling that misquote a scumslip? wtf
you cant see your own post as a slip? thats weird
and youre not clear based off the fact that it was a misquote regardless.
yeah actually
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
calls my reasoned post a 'wagon hop' and says its a 'hard scumlean' without any actual content to explain. Bad and bad.
BTW I don't actually know if its going to be worth the effort or sanity to reread all 300 posts. Considering just starting from here and watching where it goes since I can actually play from a solid footing
are you still calling that misquote a scumslip? wtf
> reasoned postI stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.
please reread what your original accusatory post was. reread it again. then tell me what part of it makes sense.
you even acknowledged enough that it didnt make sense that you pulled quotes. which was good
and now youre pretending it made sense from the start. i dont get it. what is your logic here
Warning - while you were typing 18 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.well, beans.
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were --
I stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.
The meta part I'll admit is pretty muddled by me trying to catch up and isn't as solid. That was the only part I tried to justify in my post (admittedly poorly)
You just labeling me as 'scum lean' and not actually saying anything about it except in retrospect is not good and you're being confusing by both saying my post is good and it isn't.
It does make sense, I just don't want to go pull quotes again from the 300 post hell that is pages 1-7 40 posts per page
and no, it isn't a "wagon hop", it was based off my own opinion? As I said, you wordlessly hopping to vote me is, in fact, a wagon hop right after oarfish.
I'm going to be real I haven't played mafia in like 6(? memory is hard) years so the prospect that people are actually trying is making me regret this something fierce, but I believe I've already made that implicit in my first post. I entered this game with the impression that it'd be ridiculously slow.
On the other hand, I have like 3 free hours right now, let's see if I remember how to play this eSport again.
##unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Hello there.
What is your stance on nuxl, since I take it you have him and zwerd in the same 'unimpressive' negative connotation boat. Do you agree with what Sir Touhou said about them? Or what sb's said in deference to Sir Touhou's read (and how sb doesn't scumread nuxl off of that). Why are you sitting on your zwerd vote, adding little other than you're still not impressed by then, and then bemoan about the arguing of metagaming (which, while at one point I would agree with you, page 10 is well after that point)?
Basically I'm saying there's a lot of content going around, specifically involving discussion of zwerd and nuxl by other players and you're handwaving it entirely as metagame talk. I think that's lazy at best?
While we're at it.
Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?
By the way, why was that convincing enough for you to change your vote, @zwerd? Do you think what raik had done (or failed to do) awards pressure?
---well, beans.
Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.
--
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)
I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hi Dormio! Sup? Do you still think of zwerd as scummy? Would you agree with NNR's reasons?
This post ended up as a stream of consciousness wall of text and I hate how it looks but I'm hitting post anyways.
{
cout <<(Statement10)
cout <<(Statement11)
cout <<(Statement12)
cout <<(Statement13)
}
My current opinion of (Nuxl) is that, whilst I disagree with how he's playing, I feel that (Nuxl) is at least making a genuine effort to play the game in accordance with his logic. Also, lazy is my middle name. If I didn't still think of (zwerdjib) as being scummy, I would have moved my vote over to (O4rfish). I'm in a privileged position where I don't actually have to read any of (NekoNekoRex)'s posts and I fully intend to make use of this privilege.
given the giant Mass of posts I honestly don't want to read before I started posting, not many yet. (Although I might go back and read some later when I'm feeling less fatigued)
Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.
--Putting it that way, I could see that being valid. I believe I stated strongly before my opinions on Nuxl prior to and during my vote on him
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)
I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.So it's a vote that might be incorrect without me reading the other half of the game I wasn't participating in, but for sure I thought what I had read was scummy, and reading more of his posts wouldn't make me think the initial ones were any less scummy.
Dormio I take issue with your characterization of my posts, especially since you wrote "How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?" and "This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read."
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched.
Shadoweh get in here and put a serious vote on someone
Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?What? When did I make any comment on niektory? The only emotion I have towards niektory is pity for their poor soul that this is their first mafia game apparently. A 17 member nightmare mashup of eimm players and motk washups who haven't had to play REAL BOY MAFIA for 5 years
And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)...ah, and this is just plain wrong. I mean, unless you interpret 'which you explained after you vote' as 'in the sentence after the vote, in the same post the vote is in'.
NNR "scumslipping" and the ensuing wagon was hilarious and also about as airtight as my new computer case (which has porous mesh for the entire topside? what the what? man what have I been doing for the last 12 years) and what amazes me is that somehow this turned into an actual, serious vote by Zwerdjib aka zeep. Now, obviously, the vote isn't really about that anymore (at least I sure hope not), but over... a weird wagon hop? I mean, NNR provided three clear reasons, even if he didn't go to the point of grabbing lots of quotes and references yet.
would you like to pull examples of posts that "are filler content" and "create an anti-town environment"?
Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything. Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1130#msg1130
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg927#msg927
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg896#msg896
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg820#msg820
Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything. Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"you flatter me! tbh i was planning on sleeping and then posting in the morning but ill make a quick post rn i guess
I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh
Don't really have a strong lynch opinion when I probably should but I think my vote is functionally useless right now so whateverEh, do you have anywhere you're leaning? By the time you see this post there's probably only going to be 24 hours left to deadline and your only vote will have been the 0-poster. and your stated reads will have been zwerd okay, conq okay, some other slots okay too. you were talking about pressure so im curious where you want to apply it because i reskimmed your iso and you're not really pressuring anywhere, just feeling stuff out and discussing some reads.
Wait, can you explain why you think he'd act like this as mafia over town?
zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.
what's difficult to read about her posts? it's not like she posts much and they're short and sweet.
unironically get good, there are at least 5 people with more difficult to read posting styles, probably more.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?
not about formatting, about what shes saying. language doesnt connect with me. feels like trying to translate html into english. without a professional.does that mean you scumread most people or?
and im trying to work out who *not* to vote at this point. might have more insight into that if i understood a goddamn thing shadoweh was saying
especially since he threatens to retaliate people who vote him.When did Nuxl do this...? Tbh I thought your push there was not great but in the sense that it seems like you made it because you weren't really paying attention while reading, which is basically what you said. plz read more :(
does that mean you scumread most people or?
i seriously dont understand what about shadoweh's posts are hard to read, can you point out an example or something
unrelated but while reading serela's posts i saw someone asking him why not niektory instead of raikaria and my personal answer so that is that raikaria slot can actually be pressured to post, plus he has the capability to actually post decent content so his current posts are worse given his skill level. hopefully niektory shows up soon though, i imagine they're probably overwhelmed regardless of their alignment.
I am seriously voting someone (who is someone? why no name?) and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing (posturing ill-defined) so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else (what would be easier???) but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by (WHERE IS FUN MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE POST???)
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh (oh cool a sentence/fragment/thing that makes sense)
Honestly I've yet to not at least somewhat disagree with a post about gameplay theory in this thread but I don't really want to get involved in these discussions until postgame since I find them distracting.
Serela... the closest you have to a suspicion on a player who has posted content is your paragraph of O4rfish where you immediately defend him from the line of reasoning you figured out. How am I supposed to tell if this is town you sincerely struggling to get a reads or scum you struggling to find reasons to vote any of the clearly townie townies?
FWIW I did think O4rfish's "what scum want is to run out the clock" speech was awkward and I'm not sure what brought Shadoweh over zwerdjib and Nuxl in his priorities recently.
Niektory hasn't really done anything and is getting away with it. Don't understand why they voted NNR for not voting yet here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1003#msg1003); lots of people hadn't made serious votes at that time, @Niektory what made you decide to vote NNR? I don't want to D1 powerwagon the new guy on their first game but yeah, this slot will need a lot more pressure on D2.
Not particularly interested in a Shadoweh wagon but won't defend her as long as she's voting me. you reap what you sow
We don't have any real wagons other than her though. I'm OK consolidating on Nuxl. If this really is just his playstyle then it seems to... not... get... results.....???? Which doesn't seem right because I thought he was a generally respected player. Still think even with his views on how to play the game he should seem more pro-active if a town, instead of his focus going mostly into gameplay theory and the social aspects of the game. I think he should be held to a higher standard.
@Nuxl: since you claim to not have scumreads, what lynches would you be most interested in seeing today? That may be a better way of phrasing it.
@NNR:When did Nuxl do this...? Tbh I thought your push there was not great but in the sense that it seems like you made it because you weren't really paying attention while reading, which is basically what you said. plz read more :(
Dan, Duskfall and Raikaria are all still effective noshows content-wise. tbh I don't mind consolidating on Raikaria either. It's good to kill the low content guys (especially bad post:content ratio guys).
Lots of people look slightly bad to me but nobody looks extremely bad. Such is D1 I suppose. Will ##Unvote, ##Vote: Raikaria because I want there to be a wagon supporting me while I sleep. Bad post:content ratio is my issue with almost all the people who look slightly bad but at least you can say Serela and Nuxl have made time to try while they were around?
I remember Refa asked me something about zwerdjib, will have to get back to him on that.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?
zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
for future reference i'm usually conservative on posting my reads publicly. the mentality of how you are perceived versus what you might say could impact thread flow and scum reaction is a dilemma i face every day
dancehello
reading up
dancehello
reading up
AGAIN with the weirdly synced posts
this is true. however a certain goat invited me to this game
god help me if he flakes on me like he did when he invited me to play 451
he rolled scum without me and thus did not post for all of d1 ;)
im fairly certain that case was the exception to the rule, and he should be able to answer that better himself. the game is specifically the most recent ranked game on 451
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh
Damn zeep loved getting stepped on by refa
tommy if you read all 12 pages of this thread in one sitting ill sheep your vote
asking this because on my homesite a few players have >90% confidence reads on each other on which you're better off just sheeping given your read on that person
I'm European I do twice that on a regular basis
I don't really like Raikaria, but I also am not sure I should actually vote them, because they say they'll be a lot more available later and I can get being really busy during the first couple days of the game (e.g. me) but at the same time, it's not like they haven't posted; it's just that the posts they DID make are... completely irrelevant? They spent a post giving a summary of motk meta, but also, didn't actually comment on the ongoing game other than "huh, nuxl and zwerd talk a lot".
well they're busy and I don't have any real comment to make on the game pre-page-7 either so i guess that's fair enough, what else is here HMM
Zwerd is either scum who likes playing scum way more than town or is town and is trying to impress his eimm friends with his mafia skills , I think it's the secondthis is my read on him exactly except I don't actually know him. Idk he reads like every eager fairly-competent-for-a-new-guy newb I've ever played with. maybe I am underestimating him!!
Zwerd is either scum who likes playing scum way more than town or is town and is trying to impress his eimm friends with his mafia skills , I think it's the secondi hate playing as scum
hi Dan. kind of surprised your first post in the thread is townreading me since I don't think I've been towntelling very hard this game.
I basically had the same thought wrt Serela especially since I remember Serela becoming a lot more competent near the end of MotK mafia's lifespan.
The thing is that I think it's actually a totally reasonable point to go after Raikaria for stalling while having indicated reading the thread, even if it feels easy and it's his only point.
this is my read on him exactly except I don't actually know him. Idk he reads like every eager fairly-competent-for-a-new-guy newb I've ever played with. maybe I am underestimating him!!
Arthur's push on Nuxl is valid.
I think I may be able to explain the gut reaction though.
From Conq's perspective, Shadoweh was trying to apply a meta read to RVS, which doesn't make sense and would be bad hunting (aka possibly scummy). Shadoweh's response isn't good, but if you look at her followup posts this whole thing can be viewed as a triple word score "Just joking ... unless? Also flirty" poke at Conq. Which tbf is still scummy but who can resist a triple?
Dormio's OMGUS attack on Shadoweh is pretty meh, given how players have been surprised with the amount of posts in this thread. It seemed like an excuse for voteparking, which is going to make this next point kind of awkward ...
Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid. Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.
Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum
I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it.
Both Oarfish and Sb are likely town.explain both but sb especially as sb seems very null to me
Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.
Wait this is the post he did before I voted wtf don't confuse me sb
SB - if I (as town) somehow knew that Zwerdjib was town, I would still view Nuxl as scummy. Nuxl says "this person is town; I will defend this person" which at face value is only slightly valuable. His defense is that Zwerdjib reminds him of some other player which means Zwerdjib is town somehow ... and the threat to defend him was a joke. This is such poor play it's worthy of ridicule. Tell me SB, am I wasting everyone's time by pressing him on this?
explain both but sb especially as sb seems very null to me
We should lynch someone today.
Wait does this forum actually autocorrect to fire truck hahaha that's so funny I thought everyone was just really good at censoring but now I realise everyone is just titled af
There is a word filter but it can be turned off locally in one's profile page (under the Look and Layout options).
Shhh I was trying to pretend I'm catching up to thread organically you're gonna modspew me
I don't really like Raikaria, but I also am not sure I should actually vote them, because they say they'll be a lot more available later and I can get being really busy during the first couple days of the game (e.g. me) but at the same time, it's not like they haven't posted; it's just that the posts they DID make are... completely irrelevant? They spent a post giving a summary of motk meta, but also, didn't actually comment on the ongoing game other than "huh, nuxl and zwerd talk a lot".
We should lynch someone today.
What scum want is to run out the clock. Town is trying to get a bunch of useful information before the lynch. Scum will try to prevent most or all of the day's posts from being useful after the lynch. Thus, scum will make (or let) town waste time and energy doing unproductive things such as reading tons of low-content posts. Players are lazy and don't want to read that much. Have you seen how many people complain about the number of pages in this thread?
##vote: abuhumaidW-why!? :<
NNR that is either the funniest scumslip or the lamest NOCslip.
##Unvote
##Vote: NNR
visible confusion
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
W-why!? :<
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.I don't like this vote. The reasoning behind it is sheepy + [insert false accusations here]
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
I mean there wasn't a lot to comment on. It was mostly just two people rambleing and talking largely about ~Meta~ which I addressed.
This is bad. Like really; really bad.
What scum want is irrelevant/fluffy discussion; yes.
But town is absolutely no way benefits from cutting discussion early. That is 100% a pro-scum move. More talking means to to go from. Even if there's fluff; low-effort and potentially posts which lead people up the wrong tree; there will still be things useful to town.
Cutting discussion early only ever benefits scum. Because there's less to make a case from. So you're advocating a move which doesn't help town and helps scum.
Even worse; you say 'we should lynch someone today' and then... don't vote for anyone or make a case. Suggesting you're happy with us lynching ~anyone~ today. Or perhaps you're happy just jumping on or pushing a wagon to get a lynch today to shut discussion early.
##Unovte
## Vote: O4rfish
This post reeks of scum.
Warning for future readers Abu is probably scum but is also probably gonna pocket me
I would have really liked a bit of specification on what the "scumslip" was here? I don't immediately see anything wrong with NNR's post. Kinda helps to convince people t follow a case when you... uh... explain your case.
That said; with only 1 vote on NNR at the time of O4rfish's vote it dosen't look like just jumping on a wagon like I was concerned O4rfish was implying was possible with the previous post I quoted from him. I still don't like him at this point however.
Also zwerdjib does the same thing right after.
4:visible confusionThe irony in this statement is rather large.
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
Do you think that someone who suggests lynching D1 as if it is not a given but an actual idea is the type of person to strategically try cut discussion as scum?
I think I was right though
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched.
An addendum: I have won exactly 1 (one) game of Mafia, and that was due to a blatant scumslip which I jumped on.
Raikaria - we are in d1, so today is d1. I realize now that I should have phrased that differently.
The irony in this statement is rather large.
i feel like you just read 5 posts per page and called it a day
how much of the exchange did you read
3:
I would have really liked a bit of specification on what the "scumslip" was here? I don't immediately see anything wrong with NNR's post. Kinda helps to convince people t follow a case when you... uh... explain your case.
That said; with only 1 vote on NNR at the time of O4rfish's vote it dosen't look like just jumping on a wagon like I was concerned O4rfish was implying was possible with the previous post I quoted from him. I still don't like him at this point however.
Also zwerdjib does the same thing right after.
4:
The irony in this statement is rather large.
W-why!? :<what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
Warning for future readers Abu is probably scum but is also probably gonna pocket mecan you talk more about both parts of this statement?
@raikaria I was making a new wagon before I went to sleep to see if it gained any traction. re: the votes on shadoweh; they havent evolved much, but shadoweh also hasn't done much since then and my vote felt stale (although the reasons for voting her havent disappeared). will catch up on other stuff in a bit.
i was going to ask you about your oarfish vote but you'd moved off that since apparently it was a misreading? would like to see where you go next i guess.
pop some comprehensive thoughts smh
Quite a selective quote. The irony came from the fact that in my previous point I called you and O4rfish out for making NNR votes claiming a 'scumslip' without ever highlighting what this alleged 'scumslip' was.
Hence you calling people out for not making cases was ironic.
Just popping in to apologize for inactivity, I'm pretty busy right now. And I honestly didn't expect that volume of posts (noob mistake I guess). And still can't really read much from them. I'll try to catch up later today.Uh, just give us any thoughts you have at all regarding the game. They can be freeform if you want.
Oh, and I have no idea who Flee Fleet is.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
can you talk more about both parts of this statement?
I got the wrong end of the stick. Combined with me stating previously that I generally agreed with O4rfish's later posts, and I see no reason to continue voting for him.Okay, sure. But who do you want to vote for now?
the scumslip should have been obvious from context
Okay, sure. But who do you want to vote for now?
##unvote
##vote abuhumaid
fine with trying this after a skim of his iso
ah dammit raik just invalidated my post lemme read it
Actually; I've seen something I dislike.
##Vote: Duskfall98
Duskfall hasn't done much, and a lot of what he has done is non-content. But there's also quite a few things I don't think are good.
#371 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1167#msg1167) is bad because well... just saying you're not reading someone's posts indicates potential apathy; low-effort and not scumhunting Dormio.
#372 he states he kind of agrees with Refa's reasons for voting for Zwerdjib. Keep this in mind.
#378 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1174#msg1174) he gives a townread but no reasoning for it.
#382 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1178#msg1178) is really weird. It's ruling out Scum Zwerdjib due to a guess on his mentality? Also he dosen't elaborate on why he thinks Zwerdjib could be 'scum that is enjoying being scum'. Don't most people prefer being scum over town anyway?
#387 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1183#msg1183) - calls out a 'bad post' from O4rfish with no explanation.
#393 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1189#msg1189) - And why does his next post ping town? And why is it so town it over-rides the previous bad post?
And then he goes and votes randomly with no explanation for Abu (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1190#msg1190) despite not mentioning any of his posts; and having expressed potential scumreads on 2 other players, and agreeing with Refa's reasons for voting Zwej.
I don't like any of this.
SB - I guess someone could have a townread this early, and be confident enough to suspect people who vote for them, but I don't buy Nuxl making a faction read based on Zwerdjib's posting style reminding Nuxl of Caffeine's posting style, especially when one of two facts mentioned about Caffeine is that they are scummy as town and towny as scum.
bullstrawberriesting
Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
You said "actually I found something I dislike"
But then mention 6 different things, do you think there's a possibility you are confbiasing considering you piled on a load of allegedly scummy things I have done? Or do you think you honestly just didn't notice 6 different scummy things I did in the last few pages?
Conq, were you more bothered by the early Abu posts or the later ones?later posts. the early posts were fine for when they were made but i guess it's the general lack of progression in reads from the slot as a whole, is how i can explain it best.
Well; it's not obvious to me. If it's 'obvious' elaboration should be no problem.
Different people see things different ways. What's 'obvious' to you is not 'obvious' to others. You need to convince people to vote with you. Reasons for votes should be explained.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.
can you talk more about both parts of this statement?
Abu is a typical mu tryhardThis is staright up lying. I've never actually tried hard in a mafia game outside my home site (MAL); on MU my posts always had a sarcastic/strawberriesposting tone.
I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.ah okay. why did you think he voted you specifically for that given general game inactivity? that would be like half the game.
Activity =/= tryhard
You can be active while having no real content in your posts. Are you trolling?
Btw zwerd it's not a scumslip if you can debate over it being a scumslipyou say that but people genuinely debated on whether 1610 was a scumslip and then lynched the guy who the scum slipped about wanting to frame.
It's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
you say that but people genuinely debated on whether 1610 was a scumslip and then lynched the guy who the scum slipped about wanting to frame.
I don't think Abu has answered my old question? Abu, why was NNR's case bad enough to make you unvote Nuxl but not vote NNR? Did you just forget or something? It feels awkward to me.Your question about zwerd? I did answer it. And I didn't vote NNR because I was still reading his posts then got distracted.
Have you never played with someone whos posting style is just hard to read so you don't? I know Eurykins wasn't on MotK but I don't think it's townie or scummy to not want to read into an awkward looking post during D1, just kinda lazy. It's more relevant later on (when trying to have reads on the whole living playerlist matters more) but not now.
I'm not referring to you figuring out what Oarfish's initial post meant and changing your read because of that, I'm saying that both of you made generic comments on "their more recent content is better than their older posts" and so I don't get why that's a problem. Duskfall expressed mixed feelings on Oarfish but no such feelings towards Abu so wouldn't this justify their vote?
WHY DO YOU ALL KEEP POSTING
#371 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1167#msg1167) is bad because well... just saying you're not reading someone's posts indicates potential apathy; low-effort and not scumhunting Dormio.
am curious; what do you think of dormio doing the same with oars posts
Yeah but unless I am severely illiterate I remember you saying that you didn't like them at first @Duskfall
later posts. the early posts were fine for when they were made but i guess it's the general lack of progression in reads from the slot as a whole, is how i can explain it best.
define Question12
{
To clarify, is (zwerdjib) saying that I'm not reading (O4rfish)'s posts, or are you referring to the comment I made regarding (NekoNekoRex)?
}
if (Reply #460 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1264#msg1264))
{
ask (Question12)
}
I said their first post was bad which I stand by but that doesn't mean scummy
define Statement17
{
I feel as though I have read through (O4rfish)'s posts and the latest posts that (O4rfish) has made don't change my mind regarding (O4rfish).
}
query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Statement17)
return (Opinions)
}
Hey SB, why is Raikaria scum? I'm sure you've explained this and so have other people but I haven't read it and kinda want to know what's going on with the biggest wagons if nothing else.
Nothing I've read from Oarfish has made me want to lynch him.
Rai's Oarfish vote felt really easy? Like, it feels like a such a given to me that it wasn't going to be today in realtime, so if that's the only reason you put the vote down then I'm not really happy with it. I guess the progression towards unvoting is believable enough but also kinda null. Cut: not big on the Duskfall vote because I think it frames a couple of posts unnecessarily badly ("due to an assumption on mentality" is weird because uh, Mafia is all about making assumptions and exploring them from there). Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
His Duskfall read bothers me because it feels more like...he's framing Duskfall as scum over naturally coming to that conclusion? I don't know how to explain this better. I get the same vibe from his Oarfish vote, but is it worse than other Oarfish votes? You've been keeping up better than me so please answer this.
Literally posted like a whole page to myself dummy
Okay never mind, I read your post you slacker.
His Duskfall read bothers me because it feels more like...he's framing Duskfall as scum over naturally coming to that conclusion? I don't know how to explain this better. I get the same vibe from his Oarfish vote, but is it worse than other Oarfish votes? You've been keeping up better than me so please answer this.
@Conqueror @Duskfall I don't get your Abu vote. Not like, I disagree with it, but I don't get what Abu did that was scummy.
by the way your posts are still hardly comprehensive
Comprehensive or comprehensible?
...comprehensible. touché.
@Conqueror @Duskfall I don't get your Abu vote. Not like, I disagree with it, but I don't get what Abu did that was scummy.I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
My vote started off as him being underwhelming and it was more a let's see what this does than anything else
Since then over the last few pages he has spiraled downwards by
1) reaction to being brought to slight attention was bad
2) he has flip flopped a lot quickly with little reason
3) he didn't give any reads when asked several times, didn't even say he had none just kinda dipped out and avoided answering
I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
Sorry what do you not understand lmao
refa, duskfall was talking about abu
How do I iso
Who was Dormio on before? Zeep? I can see why you'd call them an easy target in terms of content but they're also posting too much for me to call it an easy vote to maintain in good faith.
I do think that I should have a more solid read on Dormio by now than I actually do, though.
I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
I can get behind that! What do you think the scum intent is for voting Duskfall? Actually uh, has Duskfall been under a lot of suspicion because that would answer that question.no, i meant, this.
##vote: abuhumaid(for the sake of context, this was an empty vote and the only mention of abu in dusk's iso)
W-why!? :<
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.
ah, this is probably because you don't have as much history with scum!serela. as scum, serela has a history of having trouble faking scumreads on town, and it looked like he might have been doing that by the way he was talking about non-game-related stuff while aggressively avoiding any game talk. i've dropped it since i thought his posts when he caught up were okay enough.
Duskfall, what's your read on Nuxl?
@Conq Oh, sorry for misreading again. Still okay with the reasoning I think. I know this happened a while back BTW but I don't really get why you had a Serela suspicion in the middle of the game for his RVS content. This bothered me moreso with Prims voteswitch but it felt like you were both getting on his case for something that I don't see any scum intent out of and I don't remember either of you addressing Serela's response.
Everything he has done is believable in a town game but it is not so towny to make him a town read, nuxl isn't really readable D1 though imo, town him has more stamina than scum him over the game as a whole
ah, this is probably because you don't have as much history with scum!serela. as scum, serela has a history of having trouble faking scumreads on town, and it looked like he might have been doing that by the way he was talking about non-game-related stuff while aggressively avoiding any game talk. i've dropped it since i thought his posts when he caught up were okay enough.i guess i'll clarify that "okay enough" is a relative thing because objectively, serela came in, waffled over a bunch of people and then parked on a zero poster, but my vote trajectory has not been much better tbh and i dont aggressively disagree with anything he's done given gamestate.
Dormio, characterizing my vote for Shadoweh as "opportunistic" is weird. She posted this explanation (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1034#msg1034) of her vote, and then turned it into this explanation (http://this explanation), so I voted her.
I still think Nuxl is probably scum, but he hasn't posted anything in the last ... I was going to say 18 hours but that is incorrect. And he hasn't made any statements about other players in even longer.
Refa, seriously?
Duskfall, did you explain this post (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1197#msg1197)? What is a modspew?
That post was a joke
hey sexy
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
being all cryptic and pushing people to make opinions for you is gay and lame
Maybe, but it's a thing people do on my site too and it's predominantly town aligned (see: apricity) XD
I can't believe you just XDed
define Statement23
{
As for why I would prefer to vote for (zwerdjib), in addition to (zwerdjib) trying to shut down my discussion with regards to (Shadoweh) during early day 1, it's due to the fact that (zwerdjib) repeatedly justifies other people's actions.
}
define Statement24
{
Defending somebody else's actions is something that only I should be allowed to do and it looks incredibly scummy to me when somebody else is doing it.
}
define Statement25
{
Overall, it just feels to me as though (zwerdjib) is trying to shut down certain lines of discussion and that feels scummy to me.
}
if (Reply #503 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1308#msg1308))
{
cout <<(Statement23)
cout <<(Statement24)
cout <<(Statement25)
}
As for why I would prefer to vote for zwerdjib, in addition to zwerdjib trying to shut down my discussion with regards to Shadoweh during early day 1, it's due to the fact that zwerdjib repeatedly justifies other people's actions. Defending somebody else's actions is something that only I should be allowed to do and it looks incredibly scummy to me when somebody else is doing it. Overall, it just feels to me as though zwerdjib is trying to shut down certain lines of discussion and that feels scummy to me.
@Duskfall98 i'm at around 5/9, maybe 6. what about you?
I still think it looks like he's faking enthusiasm.TBH I am unenthused about this game as town because it's been a hard to read, low-content D1. I am still town though. I will act disproportionately passionate as all alignments for rhetorical purposes.
Am OK with Raikaria lynch too; looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced was good, which I thought was good.should read "looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced, which I thought was good."
Agree Abu has been underwhelming. I was hoping he'd have more to say when coming back near the end of the day but it seems like the opposite happened.
##Unvote
##Vote: Abu
Doesn't seem like what NNR said should have been strong enough to make him drop the Nuxl vote without a stronger target. Sticking around to defend himself instead of getting a vote back down is poor priorities this late in the day IMO.
Also Dormio I don't think Abu is very new? At least he seems experienced enough that I wouldn't buy him being an "overwhelmed newbie".
Am OK with Raikaria lynch too; looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced was good, which I thought was good.
Nothing new from Serela... Nuxl still needs to have like, any sort of priorities regarding the lynch. It's funny Duskfall says his scum meta is to have low stamina because having low stamina is basically how I've been reading him here.
Overall Raikaria/Abu wagons seem good to me. It's a lot of votes to lynch and we've got less than 24 hours left, so people should start consolidating. This means people like Dormio, Xinnidy, NNR, SHADOWEH who are on 1-vote targets, unless those targets can also become wagons.
I personally don't want to lynch NNR or zwerd btw.
I've pretty much just been mirroring Conq's opinions on everything recently so I hope he's town lol.
Think people are being too quick to townread SB; having played with both SB and Refa a lot they're both very good at writing posts as both alignments. Not scumreading either atm though.
TBH I am unenthused about this game as town because it's been a hard to read, low-content D1. I am still town though. I will act disproportionately passionate as all alignments for rhetorical purposes.
2: The topic of townreads has come up a few times, and I'm of the opinion that giving out townreads; especially at this phase of the game, does little but paint a target on people's backs [if they are indeed town] for the scum to target. I don't think we should be giving out townreads D1.
Everything he has done is believable in a town game but it is not so towny to make him a town read, nuxl isn't really readable D1 though imo, town him has more stamina than scum him over the game as a whole
Nuxl what causes this power spike?
define Question13
{
Who the hell is (Arthur)?
}
define Question14
{
I think somebody asked this before, but can we refer to people by their forum usernames?
}
define Statement35
{
Not all of us are familiar with the alternate handles that people go by and it makes things far more difficult than they have to be.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
ask (Question13)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question14)
ask (Statement35)
}
who told you i was a respectable player? i don't think i've ever played with youI remember you were in a SF game and got killed early although I only skimmed it and don't really remember it. Probably had read smogon games with you in them before too. Basically I purge my brain of mafia-related information as much as possible now and only remember the vague details.
Raikaria is generally not a high-experience player. I think his posting here is consistent with his meta as either alignment.
Regarding Niek, he hasn't posted enough to reliably tell that he's not being coached. There are too many factors to consider here - availability of a scum!Niek's buddies, how much he actually would be listening to them as scum before posting, etc. I get the impression he's reserved and that pings me as possibly not wanting to mess up.
zwerd is a high confidence town read: there's something very stilted about his play that doesn't seem to have a real agenda behind it. he reads as low experience and it seems too pure but also wild and wacky to be what i'd expect of people newer to forum mafia. certain level of wanting to be inquisitive but not actually accomplishing anything, which reminds me a lot of caffeineboost on my homesite who ends up being a lot less composed as town as opposed to scum. this is my highest confidence townread. this is also part of my second job!
I... am not sure how to feel about this.
im still pretty happy with my vote on zwerd. After coming back to this thread after a day or so he has gone from posting loads of garbage to barely posting, and still posting almost nothing of value. He's also still sitting on the vote on me without really... scumhunting.
The buddy-up with nuxl that he's been doing the whole game is kinda worrisome
1) Abu is outside his town meta from mu, you know this is true because he agreed with meMeta man bad. Automatic frown.
2) I'm very easily pocketed and he seemed like he was gonna try pocket me considering he agreed with my scumread of him
Dl is in less than 24 hours and it's apparently maj not plural rule so your vote probably wouldn't be doing anythingyou'll have to give me a post number, I'm on a different setting for posts per page
Which of the lead wagons would you vote for? Can you respond to my inquiries on page 18?
you'll have to give me a post number, I'm on a different setting for posts per page
see the funny part about these are none of these are inherently scummy hahaha. it's pretty ignorant assume these traits are universally tied to an alignment across different sites, isn't it? (regarding the fact that multiple people are calling specific meta bad while also trying to apply general concepts that definitely wouldn't apply to every player universally because of different site backgrounds and skill level, which is where stuff like pmeta is actually important to come in)meta is bad. Look for scumslips and scum arguments, not gotcha games "he only does this as scum"
so if hypothetically you can chalk these things up to something like site culture (e.g saying meta is bad or scummy, where on other sites people use it both as, either alignment, and as an effective tool to solve someone's alignment) how does your read develop on me with this in mind?
when did i dodge questions bee tee dubs
Maybe, but it's a thing people do on my site too and it's predominantly town aligned (see: apricity) XDscumhunting is town. having opinions is town. not showing opinions and just jumping on wagons is bad and scum
Conq is on my watchlist. I see him asking lots of questions but not looking for scum.lmao at this
post 500 edit: Might retract that, he's looking for scum now.
meta is bad. Look for scumslips and scum arguments, not gotcha games "he only does this as scum"
scumhunting is town. having opinions is town. not showing opinions and just jumping on wagons is bad and scum
I like Raikaria. Good effortposts, good reads. Kinda disagree with the wagon on him, "his cases are too easy" feels like a real cheap shot and if he's lynched and flips town I'd take a good hard look at his wagon for scum
No one has said this about Raikaria.I mean, people have
im still pretty happy with my vote on zwerd. After coming back to this thread after a day or so he has gone from posting loads of garbage to barely posting, and still posting almost nothing of value. He's also still sitting on the vote on me without really... scumhunting.
prims is gay as usual. Kinda like dan.I just realized how this could be misinterpreted but it's accurate at the same time regardless so whatever
Abu is at L-4 and Raikaria is at L-6. NNR, Shadoweh, Xinnidy, Raikaria are on 1-vote wagons. NNR and Shadoweh are our 2-vote wagons.
Wait, do we need to hammer? How much time is left?
People are gonna end up in wonky timezones but it's more about what you do while you're around imo
define Question15
{
Which of the reasons are flawed?
}
define Question16
{
I get that (zwerdjib) has mentioned that (AbuHumaid) might not be around due to timezones, but how does that create flaws in any of the reasons provided?
// You're right, I do dislike the fact that you're defending other people again.
}
query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question15)
ask (Question16)
return (Opinions)
}
define Question17In that case, I'll reread the thread and try to figure out who are his teammates, I have plenty of time during the Night and no one would be posting.
{
Hypotheically speaking, assuming that the (Duskfall98) lynch goes through, who would (AbuHumaid) shoot in this scenario?
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
This is literally what I expect from scum trying to buy themselves a day lol. No crumbs or anything in your play suggesting you're vig.Are you serious??? Why in the hell would I crumb that I'm a vig?
I feel like I'm reading a different game because I thought Raikaria looked town and wanted to vote SB for going after him, then suddenly everyone agrees and is okay with a Raikaria lynch. I did just read about 6 pages at once though and the words are blurry in my head but uh, no i don't think Raik is scum.Ok so this is the only thing shadoweh's posted in a long time (no verification needed; she said she just read 6 pages!) and I really thought I was gonna see more from her after this but there's NOT and this was like 6.5 hours ago
"You didn't aggressively go after prims after voting him" he didn't post?? Did you expect me to force him out of the ether or something? :V His latest post didn't change my mind, I still think it looks like he's faking enthusiasm.
define Question18I scumread NNR due to his suspicious Nuxl vote
{
So what you're essentially saying is that you have no scumreads outside of your counterwagon?
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Question18)
return (Opinions)
}
but abu what about the statistically much more likely case that he's town and therefore you can probably have a second priority -before- his flipI mean, we could lynch someone else while I vig Dusk?
since a town lynch does still get us info but considering how late he entered the game and that it's only D1, not a huge amountOk so this is the only thing shadoweh's posted in a long time (no verification needed; she said she just read 6 pages!) and I really thought I was gonna see more from her after this but there's NOT and this was like 6.5 hours ago
she's pretty much just sitting on her safe Arthur/prims vote that isn't actually going anywhere, and doing a whole lot of Nothing
shadoweh is actually a Good Player. It's fair for me to expect more than this. For like the third time man is this what all my scum picks are gonna be this game; it's not inherently scummy to be busy but it's scummy when you don't actually contribute anything when you clearly ARE reading the game
i would be ok with lynching shadoweh if people want to let Abu try to shoot people but also leaving Abu alive to supposedly shoot people can easily turn into a huge mess whether he's actually town or not-town and it's just so much easier to have it over with instead. but I mean, shadoweh is being scummy, so lynching her is still fine. abu is also good. really these are both good lynches
strawberries wait I didn't go to bed NO
define Statement37Then who do you suggest we lynch, and who do you suggest I vig?
{
(NekoNekoRex) is not a vig option.
}
query (abuHumaid)
{
ask (Statement37)
loop (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
Are you serious??? Why in the hell would I crumb that I'm a vig?so that this situation doesn't happen, for one. A claim that would buy the lynchee time is always suspicious if it doesn't match their post history. crumb does not have to be something extremely obvious that would get you blocked
I think we should vote Dusk for literally lying about my meta + having no reasons to vote (he developed them on the go) also the fact that a lot of people hopped on my wagon so fast could mean that his scummates are backing him up.why would scum!Dusk see the need to have the scumteam turbowagon you suddenly at the end of the day? Note that the alternatives were not people on your wagon. This doesn't seem like a thought-out attack to me, which is why you're reading like scum trying to sow end-of-day chaos with this and the vig claim to avoid a lynch this early. What do you think scum!Dusk's gameplan here is? Also, why is this only coming out now that you're a major lynch target and not when you initially responded to Dusk...?
OK this is the good Serela then. Sry for doubting you bae (handheart)I wasn't really present enough to crumb my role, I was having trouble catching up (and I still am) so it did not cross my mind.
so that this situation doesn't happen, for one. A claim that would buy the lynchee time is always suspicious if it doesn't match their post history. crumb does not have to be something extremely obvious that would get you blocked
why would scum!Dusk see the need to have the scumteam turbowagon you suddenly at the end of the day? Note that the alternatives were not people on your wagon. This doesn't seem like a thought-out attack to me, which is why you're reading like scum trying to sow end-of-day chaos with this and the vig claim to avoid a lynch this early. What do you think scum!Dusk's gameplan here is? Also, why is this only coming out now that you're a major lynch target and not when you initially responded to Dusk...?
define Statement38Well, I don't really have solid scum reads other than those two, but as I said I'll reread the thread during the Night and see because I've pretty much given up on catching up during the Day.
{
I'm pretty sure I've made my stance on who I want lynched pretty clear.
}
define Statement39
{
What I'm asking now is who (AbuHumaid) thinks (AbuHumaid) should shoot if (Duskfall98) is lynched and (NekoNekoRex) is not an option, and some reasoning so as to why.
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Statement38)
ask (Statement39)
loop (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
It's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
The 'thing I don't like' is your general lack of explanations. Those are examples. I didn't like it before but at the time thought O4rfish was worse. You're really splitting hairs.
if (Reply #616 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1437#msg1437))
{
loop (Statement40)
}
Mostly because that was a poor answer in response to Prim's question regarding not showing up to apply a vote/pressure on Dusk. The correct answer is not "I was about to sleep so I didn't get into it", its "I'm sitting on a vig with no apparent agency otherwise and bidding my time to press the button MUWHAHAHA".What does that even mean? How's me going to sleep a bad response? Are you suggesting I should be threatening people instead?
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.Already explained that here: https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1206#msg1206
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends at
so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
i dont have many opinions on the abu vig thing, though i would like him to explain why he agreed with me on nnrs sudden vote being scummy
which i assume is what he will be working on when he does his read-through
so for now i wont vote him
Already explained that here: https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1206#msg1206
honestly i'm kind of staring and rereading at the thread and i say i'm really typing a big post but i keep typing one out and deleting it. i honestly just want to go back to playing mystery dungeon.
@anyone do modkills end day on this site?
i have no idea why my wagon diffused so fast and not exactly sure why they're all so spread out as a result which is strange given my initial expectations of the wagon on me. duskfall and zwer are bad lynches right now so uh lol
@Dormio i have no clue how your read progressed on me, was there a particular post in question or something? i thought i was doing a pretty good job of conveying my mentality earlier from page one so i dunno how it changed from your view
@shadoweh can you define "easier" in regards to your comment on voting me in question? why are raik/dormio town iyo?
@abu what does niek's vote on me make you think of my slot?
@Conq unrelated but i actually disagree with you about pressure! there are people i do townread and there are people that i do not townread. not lynching the people i do townread is a good idea which for the most part does not seem to be happening. i would've voted if i had a high confidence ping elsewhere, i didn't. i was and is fine with how this day is progressing. it's progressing without me. that's completely ok.
@arthur when tommy says low stamina he means games where i idle day phase d2 onwards because i don't have the heart/don't care about my team or game/want to tank my scum meta for the sake of my town meta. he finds it a lot harder to read me than it is for me to read him, so my reads on him are a lot more accurate than his on me. can link you to proportional examples if you're really interested.
who told you i was a respectable player? i don't think i've ever played with you
but honestly though, the only accurate read i care on me is tommy's read of me hahaha. and funnily enough, both for oog and ingame reasons (but not the ingame reason you may be thinking of)
@anyone that is not raikaria: is this a real thought you expect from raikaria? again, if someone really experienced posted this it would be pretty garbage so that's why i'm asking
i know you say this to me in pms but literally look at any scum d1 i've ever had, count the number of posts in those dude. i am readable :)
see immortality/shots where i kept linking my self meta and nobody read it
(also believe it or not the only person i'd tryhard scum with on my team is you on this pl bc you invited me to play. you know how much i hate playing noc with randoms. maybe if my team was exactly 3 other people you probably have in mind?)
----
my "2" earlier were my townreads at the time of that post. "5/9" are my current townreads. roughly ordered
zwerd is a high confidence town read: there's something very stilted about his play that doesn't seem to have a real agenda behind it. he reads as low experience and it seems too pure but also wild and wacky to be what i'd expect of people newer to forum mafia. certain level of wanting to be inquisitive but not actually accomplishing anything, which reminds me a lot of caffeineboost on my homesite who ends up being a lot less composed as town as opposed to scum. this is my highest confidence townread. this is also part of my second job!
refa's posting aligns with my vision of his posting in danganronpa/ocnoc2 and their reads are p fine. i have never seen their scumgame though but i think i can predict how it'd go
i think oarfish is a tier 2 town given what people are saying about their skill! but their mentality is really dangerous and i don't think they're the type of player to change that within the span of one game.
(wrt my last sentence @duskfall98, to phrase this less uh, toxic-ally, i have the same opinion as i did on similar slots in shots noc SPECIFICALLY in regards to vote placement, you can figure this out right)
tommy (duskfall) is town first for angleshoot reasons, but also for two specific reasons, both of which are something that exposes his meta since for all future nocs you won't see me in a playerlist without him. so i won't expose them so i can use them later. getting this read right was also my first job!
conq's inquisitiveness reminds me of how i used to play town before i started adapting hal's style into my play.(which is more optimal on my homesite anyway but is probably barred by site culture here) real time interactions are fine here and says particular stuff/does particular approaches i would say six months/1 year ago. admittedly this is the weakest read but there's not a lot to think about and i tend to be pretty damn accurate about my d1 towncores :)
i have possibly one more to add here but need to see how that progresses
----
close enough to deadline where it's ok for me to start talking about some other things
abu: not a lot on this slot you can really gather based on iso. the slot also just feels pretty lazy regardless of alignment. my initial thought was that he jumped onto my wagon that was building heavily because i (was/am) an easy target but i don't really get... why he switched off. i can see one motive but i don't know if most people would be able to think about it. not too opposed to hopping on but would prefer raik given a response. @tommy how was playing with this guy otherwise. i'll be on near deadline but can you link me your favorite game you've played with him. same with @abu if you read this
niek is either not being coached or his scumteam is really inexperienced, i think. i would usually say the former read but i just played a game where i gave someone a pass for that but it turns out their scumteam was just bottom quarter. i think this is useful to consider if it flips red! but it's probably more scum often than not if the other 3(or 4 if people don't want to include me) townreads can be found on a higher confidence, just like the last game i played on smogon
shadoweh: feels dissociated with thread regardless of alignment, so if somebody can tell me if that's a regular thing lmk. their thing on page 4 kinda irked me a bit + things i'm trying to ask them about but that's about it. seems kind on a different wavelength which is probably also related to experience/pmeta. so if this is unusual for anyone else's vision of shadoweh then uh, note it!
raik: this read is pending based on what others think of their experience but the two major things are the quote i just said which indicates lack of "normal" thought and the second vote onto tommy being really bad. higher experience means worse slot obviously, someone said they should be posting better(i think it was conq?) so if someone can get back to me on that pls let me know
I think we should vote Dusk for literally lying about my meta + having no reasons to vote (he developed them on the go) also the fact that a lot of people hopped on my wagon so fast could mean that his scummates are backing him up.can you explain what he lied about and who are the scummates backing him up on the wagon (i lean town on basically everyone who was voting you so im curious who you pick out)
i would be ok with lynching shadoweh if people want to let Abu try to shoot people but also leaving Abu alive to supposedly shoot people can easily turn into a huge mess whether he's actually town or not-town and it's just so much easier to have it over with instead. but I mean, shadoweh is being scummy, so lynching her is still fine. abu is also good. really these are both good lynchesngl i would be down for a shadoweh turbo if we don't go through with abu (currently pending)
Mostly because that was a poor answer in response to Prim's question regarding not showing up to apply a vote/pressure on Dusk. The correct answer is not "I was about to sleep so I didn't get into it", its "I'm sitting on a vig with no apparent agency otherwise and bidding my time to press the button MUWHAHAHA".essentially
essentially
Dusk, who do you think is most likely to be maf besides Abu?
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.:thonk: i literally just tried to engage with you but lol okay. fine with the lynch if this is the response.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
:thonk: i literally just tried to engage with you but lol okay. fine with the lynch if this is the response.
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
Raik wasn't great, then I've a whole lot of null
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends at
so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
Who's town Mr conqwent ahead and looked at the playerlist since this will be useful for myself too
Zwerd I'll never have a problem with being scumread as long as it makes sense, but raik kinda just went, oh wait I just noticed something scummy:
Insert whole tunnel of scummy things, which is fair if you have been tunneling me but it's not really fair to say "oh wait just noticed"
Now it's not make or break, and I'm not saying raik was necessarily chainsawing but it's worth looking at tomorrow for sure imo
Ok thanks, you have not made me question your towniness on this daydo you have any spicy reads that arent the same as nuxl's?
Raikaria, if you didn't like Duskfall even when you voted O4rfish, why did you wait until you had to back off O4rfish before bringing it up? This seems like an unnatural progression.
This is literally what I expect from scum trying to buy themselves a day lol. No crumbs or anything in your play suggesting you're vig.
If I'm scum, you would expect some people at least to be against my wagon, but for some reason everyone agrees I'm scum...
I scumread NNR due to his suspicious Nuxl vote
Sidenote. lack of crumb is not important and I am surprised Prims cares for that.
I have the same townreads as nuxl
Abus claim doesn't make me want to unlynch, even if he is town vig which I doubt it's neg utility to let him live and shoot me who is town and also mostly townread o think?
So you want to lynch me regardless of my alignment just to save your butt?
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
Zwerd I'll never have a problem with being scumread as long as it makes sense, but raik kinda just went, oh wait I just noticed something scummy:
Insert whole tunnel of scummy things, which is fair if you have been tunneling me but it's not really fair to say "oh wait just noticed"
do you have any spicy reads that arent the same as nuxl's?
[I've even specifically asked for explanations on the Shadoweh votes multiple times and they still haven't materialized].i'm fairly i've posted my explanation of the shadoweh votes multiple times and directed it to you. i dunno why you're just ignoring me but it's extremely frustating and i dunno if you;re doing i on purpose or what
don't vote abu obviously so nobody can accidentally/intentionally early hammer)
Because as I had previously stated, O4rfish's post I had previously disliked was in my opinion the worst post thus far in the thread. At the time; Duskfall was a minor dislike; and then when I re-read I felt worse about his posts, lack of explanations and seemingly random voting.
At best it's low-effort; at worst it's outright scummy; just throwing out random statements with no backing to look like he's trying at all.
You'll also notice I've been pretty consistent with being unhappy with people for voting with little~no explanation; and I've been pushing for people to actually explain their cases and votes. [I've even specifically asked for explanations on the Shadoweh votes multiple times and they still haven't materialized].
---
Anyway; I'm awake now; and I shall be around until deadline [Deadline is 10pm my local time]. I'm actually somewhat alarmed at how close Abu is to being lynched at this point; if I'm not wrong he's L-1.
I mean, Abu's content really isn't great and doesn't really scream town, but it also doesn't seem to scream scum either. It's kind of a null read.
So I'm not inherently against lynching him, although there's a few things about his wagon which seem a little concerning:
It's Day 1. Abu hasn't been that active. Why do you think he'd have crumbed Vig so early? Dismissing his claim because 'He hasn't crumbed Vig when he's got low content and it's Day 1' seems a little... pushy.
Or Scum could be happily letting Town push the wagon, or even be busing you thinking your lynch is likly; to earn towncred.
Serela in #599 and Dormio in #600 have good points.
If NNR is a scumread why isn't he a secondary vig option after Duskfall then?
I agree with this and it's good to see someone else thinks this.
*Groans*. Another low-effort post from Duskfall; where he's basically just sheeping. Do you have these townreads for the same reasons? Do you share the null/scumreads? I really don't like things like this.
I REALLY don't like Duskfall's 'I'm willing to lynch town to save my own butt' attitude here. Especially since if he's mostly townread and a vig has said he's gonna shoot him, a power role [blocker/doc ect] that townreads him would most likely intervene.
Also I'm unsure what is meant by 'open wolfing'.
I'm not sure if this is scum throwing in the towel because he can't answer the questions, or just general frustration? I'd like you to come back and actually try to save your skin if you're town.
---
tl;dr: I'm fine with an Abu lynch, although I have concerns about Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Touhou's pushing of said wagon; and Duskfall's 'Save my own butt' attitude.
I'd personally still rather lynch Duskfall, as his posts while I'm asleep don't townread to me on top of me already leaning scum on him.
I'm certainly not fine enough with an Abu lynch to hammer it 13 hours before deadline however.
Because I'd previously only read your posts once, and on a re-read I had a second opinion and went from null to scum. That makes sense.
And when I make cases I usually do so in such a fashion. I'll notice something I don't like; then re-read other posts and interactions around that player specifically to see if there's more, good or bad. It's like a stream of thoughts.
I don't like how you're waffling on the guy getting lynched. If you have no strong opinions about him, at least comment on his wagon. It just reads that you don't care and don't want to tie yourself to it. Biased here but this is kinda why I'm doubting Abu will flip scum TBH.
I don't get why Duskfall not wanting to get vigged is scummy. Yes, it's self preservation, but that's not inherently scummy. Maybe if Duskfall townread Abu, I'd get it, but he really didn't.
I don't get why you're fine with the lynch, or why you're throwing shade on Prims.
But... I literally commented on how I don't like Prims and Duskfall's methods of pushing his wagon? Did you even read my post to claim that? Most of my post was commenting on Abu's wagon.
Duskfall not wanting to get vigged is in itself not inherently scummy. No-one wants to be vigged. But Duskfall only seems to care about himself; not town in general. After all; a random vig is always going to have more chance to hit town than scum. And thus a vig without good reason should be avoided. I'd be less annoyed if Duskfall was concerned about it hitting town in general and not just saving his own hide. But he seems to be focused on saving his own hide, not town in general.
I'm leaning towards saying you didn't read my post with your fnal comment. I pointed out several things in Abu's posts I wasn't happy with. I'm fine with lynching Abu over most other players. Likewise; I'm unsure how you can't see why I'm unhappy with Prims. I think I explained it. Singleing me out for it is also odd; seeing as Actiondan has said the same thing.
You claim to have read the post you quote yet the conclusions and points you're drawing make absolutely no sense if you're actually done so.
---
As a aside, am I alone in really not liking NNR's recent few posts and especially his Serela vote? Is now really the time for a jokevote?
You're right, that's my fault, I could have worded that better. Yes, you commented on it, but I feel like it just cemented your Duskfall case (that's fine) and you're suspicious of Prims for being a little pushy. Like, you're bothered by him for this one thing but you're not like...looking into it? It's just surface level "oh this post is bad, so this person is scum" sort of thing.
Okay, second point is interesting. What in particular makes you think Duskfall cares about himself more than town as opposed to Duskfall cares more about himself (FHPOV confirmed townie) over an unknown?
You're just posting questions to Abu and like being fairly neutral overall. Optimistically I could call them aggressive questions, but nothing points to you actually being okay with lynching him. You're not actually saying anything here.
Abus claim doesn't make me want to unlynch, even if he is town vig which I doubt it's neg utility to let him live and shoot me who is town and also mostly townread o think?
Also general question: Were people like, ever suspicious of Duskfall? Because both of the popular lynches today wanting him FSR is interesting. If I was less lazy, I would look up their reasoning, when they became suspicious, and if these suspicions happened seperate from each other but I'm uh kinda already not interested in playing any more for the day so...
Dusk, this isn't EiMM, you don't lose the game if you get shot.. >_> THe only reason to be worried about being shot is if you think he's town anyways.
##Unvote
##Vote: Duskfall
Besides, you could have just.. asked him to shoot someone else? With words? Or leash him, we're really going with 'quick lynch the vig before he vigs someone'? I think the reasoning around this is lazy, people fakeclaim things that can't be proven more often then extra kills.
Oarf I'm sorry if you think I should be doing more, I legit just can't keep up with the 6 pages every time I look here. I'm more of a 3 posts a day person now. Also I've been bottom tier lynchable in my last two games so :Thonk:
Hey if you guys want something nice and safe to do, you can lynch me, a ^.^ V A N I L L A T O W N ^.^ so i can stop having to read this AND be stuck with the indignity of having no night actions
Niektory hasn't really done anything and is getting away with it. Don't understand why they voted NNR for not voting yet here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1003#msg1003); lots of people hadn't made serious votes at that time, @Niektory what made you decide to vote NNR?I just figured voting is better than not voting, even when not serious. Only he and Duskfall98 haven't voted at all by then. No particular reason to pick NNR out of these two.
Real talk, my thought process ATM is "if Prims/Conq/SB/Nuxl/Duskfall are all town, they can carry me and I don't have to do strawberries" so a lot of my motivation for bothering to come up with reads is hedging in case that isn't the case. Wait...hopefully no one else is stealing my strategy.Another taste of motk meta:Arthur/Prims is -really- good at looking like a glorious beacon of shining town glory when he's actually scum. He's one of the players (along with Kilga) that I'd rank as "if this person is alive in Lylo, just policy lynch them right now" because, while in general I think I have a pretty decent scumdar, I have absolutely no ability to tell when Prims is actually scum and usually just hard townread them every game. Man if I could like, ever roll cop I'd probably just hit them n1 regardless of gamestate tbh and get that nightmare out of the way, too many losses to prims
I might look into Prims and shoot him if his scum game is as good as Serela is saying.
@abu what does niek's vote on me make you think of my slot?You confused me with someone else didn't you.
niek is either not being coached or his scumteam is really inexperienced, i think. i would usually say the former read but i just played a game where i gave someone a pass for that but it turns out their scumteam was just bottom quarter. i think this is useful to consider if it flips red! but it's probably more scum often than not if the other 3(or 4 if people don't want to include me) townreads can be found on a higher confidence, just like the last game i played on smogonWhat do you mean by coaching, exactly? If you mean them talking to me directly as scum, I don't think there was an opportunity for that yet, if I understood the rules correctly. Or do you just mean me supporting them in the day thread, since I would(*) know who they are?
Have you ever spoke about mafia vig theory in a game before and if you have can you link itWhat theory?
No I haven't
Ok you are usually best to shoot lhf slots that are not going to be town cleared
lhf? curious
Low hanging fruit
@anyone do modkills end day on this site?Quoted from the rules:
- Related to the above, I reserve the right to make sure any modkills I deliver come with the most detrimental consequences to the dead player's faction.So I guess the answer is probably "Yes if the killed player is town".
Xinnidy has requested a replacement from the current game due to unforeseen reality circumstances. If you, yes you, the person reading this! is interested, or you know someone that would be interested, please let me know in private.Lynch him! Problem solved! (Probably a stupid idea)
Niek coaching is when a more experienced player tells their scumbuddy what to do/how to playYeah I figured as much but I'm curious if it's something done in the day thread.
raik
Shoot shadoweh imo if she's not gonna do anything, shoot like nnr or something i guess otherwise o dunno someone who is widely scumread
If Abu herovigs he is probably scum and we should lynch him tomorrow, if he doesn't we can deal with it again tomorrow regardless
Okay I chilled out a little.
If you don't want me to shoot Duskfall then give me suggestions because I don't really have reads atm and I don't feel like backreading right now.
Or
Just lynch me ignoring the fact that I claimed a provable PR.
Either option works.
And then saying 'Vig Raikaria' and then voting me is counterproductive, right? Who is Abu supposed to vig if that wagon actually rolls? You again?
I'm here to vote whenever.
I still think Abu should be lynched.
I'm not particularly interested in lynching either Dusk/Raikaria over him
Do you think raik is town rn?
Also nuxl I always have a wagon so I don't think voting me alone is necessarily scummy on its own it's the reasoning why
Nuxl just vote raik then
"I don't think ppl will follow" is not an excuse, raik already has 4 votes.
Nuxl just vote raik then
"I don't think ppl will follow" is not an excuse, raik already has 4 votes.
any reason for that? is it mostly because of the way raik is approaching his wagon (ill admit it skeeves me out too)
Also kind awake to believe Abu just townslipped page 24 a bitwell go ahead and share with the rest of the class, time is ticking
uh, that sentence but put the words in the right order.Uhh you asked what Duskfall lied about right? He lied about my meta being a tryhard, but that's irrelevant now since he just admitted he doesn't know my meta
abu did you have a response to any of the stuff i asked you
Also abu claim aside my biggest issue with your posts is that they're just oozing self-pres* and the only scumread you have is duskfall (and you never answered my question about what he was lying about)
*yes i know he supposedly ragequit earlier but he's back and i just get the sense he only really cares about surviving off his claim
When did I say vig raikaria
Also when did I try force anyone into voting where they didn't want to?
You replied to a post which was asking who to vig with raik.
What am I supposed to inferr?
I kinda think Shadoweh's wacky post near the last votals are town tbh. She's so consistently against popular opinion that I don't think she's trying to blend in while not efforting enough to try to control discussion.i don't think shadoweh is trying to blend in, she's trying to coast and not really trying to convince anyone to go with her. her first few posts were about wanting me to carry her so i kinda expected her to engage with me more to try and solve things but she hasnt done that
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.
I will be here to vote Abu if necessary but if we can make Rai work I'd rather do it.
I've decided I don't want to lynch Abu anymore
Also kind awake to believe Abu just townslipped page 24 a bit
raikaria have you been reading my posts? i asked you a few things but you never got back to them.
actually one last thing
i'm fairly i've posted my explanation of the shadoweh votes multiple times and directed it to you. i dunno why you're just ignoring me but it's extremely frustating and i dunno if you;re doing i on purpose or what
alright ciao
raik, what do you think of my explanation re: the shadoweh votes?
And you continue to fail to elaborate
There is no such thing as a 'townslip'. Everyone wants to look town, including the scum.
Did I miss something? I might have missed something. Entirely possible I missed something while making cases and focusing on active wagons.
I haven't been directing that towards you. It was more towards people like Zwej.
Also; speaking of Zwej; the sudden change in activity levels of him and Nuxl is slightly concerning. You'd think people would be more active on the weekends. But instead there's a lot of non-content at the start and then when the game is actually going there isn't much.
Also this isn't a question. I see no questionmarks or such. I don't see much else you've said directed at me either. I mean #423 and #424 are directed towards me but again neither of those are questions, and I replied to those posts.
Oh wait I found this missed question.
So apparently Shadoweh jumped on a weak vote; didn't really push it. h; Shadoweh's been kinda wishy-washy but Shadoweh has also not really been here.
It's more of a reason than anyone else has given. It's not a great reason but the vote was early and it's been moved on from.
if someone can sell me on a raik vote i will vote to maj day
but as of now i still dont think he should be the vote for eeasons i touched on in an earlier post
"3 new replies have been posted"
yeah just like i said
Nuxl your posting is worrying me rn by the way I should probably inform you
i don't think shadoweh is trying to blend in, she's trying to coast and not really trying to convince anyone to go with her. her first few posts were about wanting me to carry her so i kinda expected her to engage with me more to try and solve things but she hasnt done that
serela just taking abu's vig claim at face value without any critical thought does look kinda bad now that you pointed it out but ehhh i dont think he'd be a good vig target
Also to add to my dislike of Dusk's 'townslip' comment; he previously said he was happy lynching a townVig Abu anyway if Abu was going to shoot him.
Currently Abu hasn't said his mind's changed, and thus this is an inconsistency.
if someone can sell me on a raik vote i will vote to maj day
but as of now i still dont think he should be the vote for eeasons i touched on in an earlier post
Rai looks like he's still trying to force the Dusk scumread really hard.
Repost?
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends atIt's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
The 'thing I don't like' is your general lack of explanations. Those are examples. I didn't like it before but at the time thought O4rfish was worse. You're really splitting hairs.
i dont have many opinions on the abu vig thing, though i would like him to explain why he agreed with me on nnrs sudden vote being scummy
which i assume is what he will be working on when he does his read-through
so for now i wont vote him
The rally against raikaria still feels scum led and forced
One part of me says scum should be concentrating on throwing abu under the bus but another part of me says yhe scum are on raikaria because the abu lynch is inevitable
Doesn't this mindset only work in plurality though? It's the most advantageous if nothing gets reached
I'm going to remain on Duskfall in the hope people agree with me until just before deadline, or unless something happens which makes me re-evaluate [either something really bad or Duskfall manages to change my opinion]. Obviously I'm not gonna consolidate on myself
Since I'm here until deadline, if needed I'll hammer Abu, as I've said a few times; he's not a townread. Also NotMeOverMe and I'd rather we do lynch someone, at least for information.
Are you sure about that?
In context of the argument at hand, duh
And by that context, just to make sure, you mean the context of it's advantageous for scum if nothing gets reached.
Yes
- Whenever town or scum forgoes their faction kill (the lynch, in town's case), the other faction gains a bonus faction kill to be used during the next phase only. This bonus kill, if not used, will not be given back to the first faction in the sequence.
Thought for a moment you were advocating for No Lynch being advantageous. If you were I'd have switched to voting for you. Which is why I queried it. Don't want another misinterpretation issue like when I pushed O4rfish.
To remind people:
We do need to settle on someone. This adds to me not being fond of Duskfall's vote switch [For not very explained reasons] and Zerj's dry unvote.
##Unvote: NekoNekoRex
##Vote: AbuHumaid
I'm not convinced but time is running out. I might still switch.
Worst case scenario for scum is that abu flips red and raikaria is pseudo confirmed town anyway
Given the town is the majority and the general consensus is to lynch abu, it would be a waste of time for scum to deter the wagon regardless of his alignment. The rally to lynch raikaria can be carried to d2 however depending on the flip.
still waiting on people to convince me. ill vote at 1h to dl
Worst case scenario for scum is that abu flips red and raikaria is pseudo confirmed town anyway
Why did you vote here? What reason would you have to switch?
L-1
How would raik be conf town?
This is L-2 btw so yeah!!
@Conq is your expectation on shadoweh "should be" working more to solve with you based on prior experiences with her
Who do you think I scum
It's my strongest scumread. Of course I want to convince people to go for it.
I'm aware I'm the secondary wagon. If I wanted the easy way out I'd just jump on Abu and push him, but I don't have a hard scumread on him.
And it's not like I've not commented on other events; like NNR's jokevote; the drop in activity of Zerj and Nuxl now there's actually real content, pushing a bit on Prims and probeing Abu as well.
Yeah Abu feels bad now as a lynch
What are your thoughts on Arthur jumping on his nuts for a crumb
Wait since when has Dan wanted to lynch me
@Conq is your expectation on shadoweh "should be" working more to solve with you based on prior experiences with herYes.
If abu flips vig not much changes, scum can continue to attack raikaria, and the people I think are scum on abus wagon will still feel scummy
Dan, why do you want to lynch Duskfall again? I've been leaning town on him so seeing him as your preferred is kinda confusing to me.
I dunno anything about him I can see him thinking it was a bad claim and something scum would do, I'm not sure if asking for crumbs is like inheritly scummy or just a weird thing to expect
Maybe this question is a site difference on PR expectations, since it's how town!abu would play a PR could be diff than always needing 2 crumb. Was kinda weird 2 me
I didn't disappear, I'm reading the threadWell, it looks like you're probably going to get lynched barring a massive vote swing, do you have anything to say that can swing it?
I didn't disappear, I'm reading the thread
Part of me is like nnr is just scum tming a lot and we are ignoring it
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this point
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this pointwhat about the lynch feels icky, is it just the lack of resistance?
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
What happened to your read on me and zwer? Huhneutral on you. I have better reads to persue
Well, it looks like you're probably going to get lynched barring a massive vote swing, do you have anything to say that can swing it?If I get lynched and flip town vig = raikaria will automatically get lynched next Day under the argument that he's my counterwagon.
what about the lynch feels icky, is it just the lack of resistance?
neutral on you. I have better reads to persue
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this pointI just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
I just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?
Yeah but uh, what changed? Your initial vote on me was because of me apparently dodging questions(which I still didn't do, can you point that out) and hiding info/using meta. I don't actually think I changed too much of the latter hahahayour current position doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i dont see a reason to keep grasping onto an aged read for the sake of it when I have stronger scum reads to consider
I just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?can you give reads or something? when i asked if you had anything to say i meant not mechanical stuff because im not interesting in lynching optimally or not, i want to lynch you if you're scum and someone else if you're not. i've seen scum do the "claim nice role and expect to survive the day while clamming up about reads" routine before so if you're actually town throw us a bone and give us something to work with.
"- There may or may not be a third party. If a third party exists, its win condition can be trusted to require survival."
I am here and ready to consolidate NOW rather than ten minutes before dusk.
So I disagree with everything NNR says. Nice.I agree with you about Serela, so he's probably scum.
Abu, what do you think about your wagon? Reads on specific players would be good.
your current position doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i dont see a reason to keep grasping onto an aged read for the sake of it when I have stronger scum reads to consider
Guys please no ;~;
Hi I can't guarantee I'll be here in the next hour so I'm here now.
I can hammer or if someone unvotes in the next 5 min I can replace the vote if you reallllllly need that time
but otherwise I'm going to hammer in 5
Still think Dusk is the best lynch, but at this point it's clear that's not gonna happen. The only thing that makes me hesitate a little is him flipping from Abu onto my wagon; which is smaller. But at the same time; his vote on me feels like hard OMGUS.
Fully expecting if there's a cop for them to investigate me; seeing as I'm the counterwagon.
I dunno I'll just sit around during the night with my collection of pods. It requires quite a bit of effort to work with those, after all. I don't have any special tools. Maybe I'll wake up D2 and have some flash of an idea.
Or more likely get back from work and see like 10 pages; wagons on me and then frantically have to try and scumhunt through those pages while trying not to provoke what's probably a scum-led wagon on me.
i think raikaria just tmid here
subconsciously put out the idea of a vig because he knows abu is the town vig, and didnt mention it in his post.
this is weird at best and incriminating at worst
reread his op and youll see what i mean
wait.http://imgur.com/gallery/GFRAkf8
this is fire trucking sus
##vote raikaria
Sorry I'm lost
What's the vcAbu L-1 Raik L-3
Anyway, I'm not big on Serela's post where they voted them? I do believe they were cut off by the vig claim but I think they would've had at least some kind of reaction to it beyond "this is notable".
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.Are you even, like... reading... my posts????
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
wait.
this is fire trucking sus
##vote raikaria
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
I hate both of these wagons ftr. Also I did read the entire thread yesterday and it didnit help (i have not read the last like 5 pages, i just read the votecount b/c deadline etc)
Something 4 you smogoners btw, Mafia Vigilantes don't really happen here.. so even a 'hero vig' is probably a town shot. yeah.
i cant be the only one seeing this come on
Raik still has to vote Abu btw
Raikaria, if someone goes from a larger wagon to a smaller wagon, why would that make them less likely to be scum in this game?
Guys, I think any information we can gain from discussion this hour would be really outweighed by the certainty of having lynched someone.
A lynch lets us analyze all the discussion and votes leading up to the flip. Plus, it's somewhat likely to hit scum.
An extra mafia kill has none of that.
And I'm pretty sure mafia would target someone more high-value to town than the town version of Abu.
Also I'll just remind people of this:
Totally would not surprise me if Abu is town; and I'm town.
Also I guess since it might be a while until I can post again:
Aside from Dusk; I'm scumreading:
Serela [Low-effort; especially by his standards; his vote on me seems really lazy; and this fits general MotK scum play]. This is my 2nd scum read.
Slight scumread on Zwej mostly because a lot of his content seems fluffy and it dropped off when actual discussion started quite noticeably. Also I've not really been *impressed* by his content. But this is slight and one of the first things I want to do D2 is re-read him.
Shadoweh is a slight scumread because I'm not impressed by what she has posted. But Lurkerweh also tends to be town. It's when Shadoweh is trying to control the game she's usually scum. This is making her only a slight scumread than a full one.
Abu is very slight of a scumread due to things I've pressed in prior posts and don't really want to re-quote.
Everyone else ranges from Null~Town. But I'm not gonna paint targets on people.
Care to elaborate on what's suspect?
So what makes my wagon a better one to jump on?
THEN EXPLAIN WHAT'S 'SUS' INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING. Seriously. How many times do I need to encourage people to actually explain their cases!
I'm holding out hope for a last-second switch to you. I'd rather lynch a hard scumread than a minor one. Even with Abu at L-1 I haven't jumped to hammer.
Also can everyone stop cutting me.
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.I also want to complain more about this quote from SB because like, I've been having continued opinions about Abu. I'm not 'voteparking'. I've been following up. Like, this seems like a pretty big disconnect from reality here. What does "solve the lynch" even MEAN. Abu is scummy as F and I want to lynch him, he's continued being scummy, I've elaborated on the continual scummy behavior, what's the prob here dood
We are going to lynch someone we are deciding who
i have no idea everybody came back up so quickly to make either lynch possible
kinda frozen but abu is probably the one more likelier to happen
Raikaria, if someone goes from a larger wagon to a smaller wagon, why would that make them less likely to be scum in this game?
Guys, I think any information we can gain from discussion this hour would be really outweighed by the certainty of having lynched someone.
A lynch lets us analyze all the discussion and votes leading up to the flip. Plus, it's somewhat likely to hit scum.
An extra mafia kill has none of that.
And I'm pretty sure mafia would target someone more high-value to town than the town version of Abu.
I like how rai just accused me being of scummy for my first non-rvs vote seeming 'lazy', which has since been drowned out by a ton of other things
i literally did explain
I've no idea what I'm doing
On one hand Abu has like way less partner equity I think?
On the other hand raik is doing way more and trying to push things which is better than Abu
Trilogy point is why are so many of the players standing off and not really getting involved I feel like people are pushing these two but not many believe in these two wagons which also scares me
... Actually you know what?
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
... Actually you know what?
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
AND THEN YOU POST SOMETHING TOWNIE WHY
I'VE BEEN POSTING TOWNIE ALL DAY
... Actually you know what?I respect that, boss
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
Raik all you've done is tunneled me
Mafia sucks
Still think Dusk is the best lynch, but at this point it's clear that's not gonna happen. The only thing that makes me hesitate a little is him flipping from Abu onto my wagon; which is smaller. But at the same time; his vote on me feels like hard OMGUS.
Fully expecting if there's a cop for them to investigate me; seeing as I'm the counterwagon.
I dunno I'll just sit around during the night with my collection of pods. It requires quite a bit of effort to work with those, after all. I don't have any special tools. Maybe I'll wake up D2 and have some flash of an idea.
Or more likely get back from work and see like 10 pages; wagons on me and then frantically have to try and scumhunt through those pages while trying not to provoke what's probably a scum-led wagon on me.
that's not a slip zwerd, pleaseOkay, you don't know for sure if my claim is real or not, but I could prove it tonight, why do I feel like you're just afraid you'll catch the bullet and don't actually believe I'm scum?
we're not lynching active player raikaria over scummy as hell abu if I have any say over this
Raikaria voting your own slot when you have a big wagon that's likely to be lynched who isn't you is basically never a good idea. You're assuming Abu is totally telling the truth when he could EASILY BE LYING, meanwhile, from your perspective, you are -modconfirmed town- (or scum who would at least be attempting to survive)
actually i guess i should still post the logic. scumslip could overrule towniness here if raik knows abu wagon is inevitable and just wants cred for it
cough
hajimeyo
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
There's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?
actually i guess i should still post the logic. scumslip could overrule towniness here if raik knows abu wagon is inevitable and just wants cred for it
cough
hajimeyo
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
There's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?
That's not a slip
Side note:
Raik just went from saying that he doesn't townread Abu to self voting himself to save Abu because he's such a strong townread
that's not a slip zwerd, please
we're not lynching active player raikaria over scummy as hell abu if I have any say over this
Raikaria voting your own slot when you have a big wagon that's likely to be lynched who isn't you is basically never a good idea. You're assuming Abu is totally telling the truth when he could EASILY BE LYING, meanwhile, from your perspective, you are -modconfirmed town- (or scum who would at least be attempting to survive)
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
why not???
i'll go back at :50 otherwise
I've been on raik ages
Because not listing every single role who could target you isn't a slip in a closed setup where town wouldn't know the roles, town wouldn't even know if there is a vig in the gamei am staring long and hard at this and i still dont understand why its not a slip and how you cant follow this logic
"why are people here at deadline, that's so weird and has never happened before in the history of survivor"
We could always no-lynch because your choices are terrible :sunnya:
"why are people here at deadline, that's so weird and has never happened before in the history of survivor"
We could always no-lynch because your choices are terrible :sunnya:
i am staring long and hard at this and i still dont understand why its not a slip and how you cant follow this logic
Vote Count 1.16
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (7): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, sb
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (6): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, AbuHumaid, zwerdjib, Shadoweh, Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb, Niektory, Xinnidy
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (1): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan, zwerdjib, Conqueror, sb, Refa, O4rfish
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (1): Serela, Prims, NekoNekoRex
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (0): Nuxl, Raikaria, AbuHumaid, Shadoweh
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): zwerdjib, Niektory, O4rfish, zwerdjib
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (0): Raikaria, Shadoweh
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Raikaria, Dormio Ergo Sum
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Shadoweh
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (0): Xinnidy
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (0): AbuHumaid, Dormio Ergo Sum, O4rfish, Refa, NekoNekoRex
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0): Prims, O4rfish, AbuHumaid, NekoNekoRex
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (1): Nuxl
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have about 25 minutes remaining (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
Its absolutely not a slip, because there is a feasible way town would post that, because he was just saying he expected to be copped, which is something town can say
You can't skip by not saying something, you skip by saying something you don't know
Slip by omission does not exist
> slip by omission does not exist
and who decided this?
there is a feasible way town raik posted it, but does it not align with the rest of what ive said as a scum gambit?
##Unvote
##Vote: Abu
I literally can't post without being cut for 2 minutes, doing this before deadline cuts me.
I think you're both town so lynching either of you is giving scum a shot anyways, maybe they'll shoot Abu because he'd be confirmed :Cate:
I am joking about no-lynching but that's the level of disapproval I have for these lynches.
You should just vote Abu, I don't think a third lynch is happening rai.
Okay, you don't know for sure if my claim is real or not, but I could prove it tonight, why do I feel like you're just afraid you'll catch the bullet and don't actually believe I'm scum?because even if you aren't scum you can just be a third party serial killer easily.
AbuHumaid is at L-1! 10 minutes left!
Ok I'm gonna hammer I think it's Abu anyways gl friends
Night Rules
- No speaking at night unless you are given explicit permission.
Town:
- Me, Sir Arthur Ingnatius Conan Touhou.
Leaning town:
- zwerdjib
- NNR (he is town mad because he is struggling to read the game)
- Duskfall (don't know his scum game but overall this seems good to me)
- Conq
Neutral:
- Refa
- Dormio
- Nuxl
- Dan
- SB
- Xinnidy
Neutral but kind of bad looking:
- Shadoweh (I think she could be town but the longer she voteparks on me the harder it is to not want to lynch her on a personal level lol)
- Serela (a little scummy, needs to say more things. think he'll become obvious soon enough if scum. Keep talking Serela.)
- Raikaria (looks like he picked dusk as a target then explained later which is odd)
Scummy:
- O4rfish (people have been TRing this guy and he could be town but I've thought his priorities were fuzzy and his cases basically are how I would expect him to apply his hyper-serious hall monitor approach to the game as scum who needs to make up cases. O4rfish please explain why you want to lynch Shadoweh over anyone else right now, including the other people you've suspected.)
- Niektory (even if overwhelmed, doesn't read like he's feeling any pressure to contribute to a town wincon)
- Abu (low posting semi-apathetic type scum guy)
There are too many mafia players.
Probably won't be around at deadline.
I want to partially retract that oarfishs vote timing wasnt as terrible as it could have been given the flip, but the vote is down and i stand by it.
I should finish work though
Yeah, he displayed some aggression towards you and also Nuxl that eventually fizzled out. Is this circumstantial or something he would do more as scum? Have any other reads worth knowing about?i do but im at work and cant reread yet.
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
Tentatively zman until he gets original, current opinions
Yeah, he displayed some aggression towards you and also Nuxl that eventually fizzled out. Is this circumstantial or something he would do more as scum? Have any other reads worth knowing about?my initial read on oarfish was the vote timing was a scum bussing scum but even with the town flip his vote feels very oppurtunistic and he rode out the day with it. It was a very safe and easy vote, the content both before and after doesnt feel town play
Obviously I'm not gonna consolidate on myself
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
also, do you mind rereading shadowehs posts and saying what you think after @fab? im not necessarily sure on her. like the low posting is offputting but the tones i get are regrettably townish like "we should do this because it makes the most sense for the town, not because it is something that i personally think is best" or smth like that (except 912 but thats obviously a half joke post). unsure how to put it.
I like these. I especially enjoy the spice with bolded. I know you're focused on ORfish but just off the brain tell me about your thoughts on SBalmost pure gut. I have an intense dislike of his crusade against raikaria
Why does her lowposting offput you the most compared to others? There were some things I liked about Shadoweh which I noted. I don't feel like rereading and am slightly wondering why you brought that work onto me.
hard to get a read onto her with 2 contradictory behaviors imho. at least for me. but for the most part your agreeable list (which... im assuming is your "probably townie" list) is something i can jive with if we need to poe people out. so i was wondering if you could get a decent read on shadoweh and i can see how much i agree with it because i honestly cant read her as much as i wish i could
and comparably speaking, like i said, her low posting is contradictory to her tone, so thats why it kind of sticks out to me
I'd like a post from Zeep summarising where they stand on the game because despite having probably the most posts I have trouble remembering his opinions? Or maybe that's because of it, but he's felt like kind of a doormat and I don't feel like he has any strong uh, feelings about anything.
My read on her is tied to her votes right now. She had a good vote from what I remembered.
Zwerb pls Rai didn't 'slip' Abu literally said he was shooting Duskfall in the face, he had no reason to be worried about it.
Not gonna lie I'd have voted sb first if i werent at work. Both are strong scumreads, oarfish is just easier to explain.
Sbs vote on me doesnt make a difference. I dont have to read more than half because its obviously fabricated.
I am confused why everyone is suddenly so down on Duskfall (not so much Shadoweh, moreso the others).
I am trying to ISO zeep (with ctrl+f because I'll admit I'm being lazy here) and I really don't know what he thought the slip was?
Do you even read or are you just making it up as you go along
##Unvote Vote:sb
I'm just going to point again that we lynched the Town Vig in order to save Duskfall for some reason.This never happened because duskfall was never getting 9 votes; raik was the counterwagon. Even after raik did the whole self-vote shebang (which probably makes him town, motk has historically thrown self-voters to the wolves and seeing as abu actually flipped town vig there's no reason for scum!raik to pull that gambit off), you're also assuming people had reason to believe abu was the town vig. I can understand if you thought raik was town but why did you think abu was town? Did you just take his claim at face value when we've had mafia fakeclaim vig in the past? I'm super curious because I genuinely don't see how you could read abu's posts and think "yeah i don't like this wagon on him, he seems town". We pressured him a little and he just caved in and ragequit.
My read on her is tied to her votes right now. She had a good vote from what I remembered.Tell me what about her vote was good. Also, where does she fit on your tier list? I noticed she was missing.
I've withheld thoughts about Conq in particular and I'll probably continue to do so.Sorry but I stopped letting people votepark me in 2010. Let's see what you have.
Tell me what about her vote was good. Also, where does she fit on your tier list? I noticed she was missing.
Sorry but I stopped letting people votepark me in 2010. Let's see what you have.
I noticed some stuff in your longpost, I'll get to it in a bit.
What I would summarize your behavior for me is that you're waiting for something to happen. I do the same thing too, it's actually a bit out of my element to make things like the Readonomicon but I was excited to play again so I let my natural instincts take over. I don't think you're someone who obsesses over your presentation, I would actually give that title to Nuxl. I do think however you care how people sort your thoughts. You offered a lot of scenarios but the thing that kept me anxious was again: why did you hesitate? Every post I read from you seemed like you had some bombshell ready but you kept it to yourself. It's ironic how we're now and you've dropped it but I'm wondering what took so long? I didn't like your EoD even if I didn't talk about it either, you were certain Abu was gonna flip scum based on what exactly? And why Abu? I again just didn't see conviction, I was waiting to be dazzled.Okay, thanks for posting this, tbh I didn't expect you to have something ready so I'm a bit surprised. I'll respond in a bit when I get to the rest of your post but tl;dr is that I wasn't certain Abu was going to flip scum. How I usually play D1 is that I feel around and try to push wagons to see what happens when I move to them. You said I hesitated but I checked back and you were asking about why I didn't move to Serela - simply put I still wanted to make Shadoweh show up and post because it's not like I stopped scumreading her (I moved off when it became clear that she was just ignoring everything so unless we fully brought her to a lynch nothing would happen and I just got bored with having my vote on her). I got a little off track here. Back to you asking about Abu. A weakness of my D1 games is that I usually end up trying to sort relatively low content posters since I'm really bad at sorting more wordy people until later in the game. I prodded at Abu and I got almost no townvibes from him and a few scumvibes. You're right in that I didn't have conviction but what about it? That's pretty much what you're going to get out of me early and I stand by it.
Duskfall literally voted him to stay alive when a confirmed town would be worth his life.This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?
Why don't you buy into it? I'm not following you here.This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.
I kinda think Oarfish is town regardless though. I've never felt like they were bullstrawberriesting responses to me, it just feels like they're very misguided and tunnel too much on playstyle reasons. I'm pretty sure that they believe the cases that they're making which makes me think that they're town, but stillOarfish, I can vouch for town!Nuxl posting a similar volume of post to this (I've hosted a game with them in it) so please don't take the fact that he posts a lot as scummy because it's literally a site thing.
Zeep's response to NNR (or the bit he expanded on with Conq) feels kinda nitpicky, wrt "why are there no quotes" and stuff like that. I think examining the votepost without the followup clarification where NNR admitted they were unclear is kinda wack too? I know you said the "followup didn't justify it" (rough quote) but why?
Rai's Oarfish vote felt really easy? Like, it feels like a such a given to me that it wasn't going to be today in realtime, so if that's the only reason you put the vote down then I'm not really happy with it. I guess the progression towards unvoting is believable enough but also kinda null. Cut: not big on the Duskfall vote because I think it frames a couple of posts unnecessarily badly ("due to an assumption on mentality" is weird because uh, Mafia is all about making assumptions and exploring them from there). Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
I don't think Abu has answered my old question? Abu, why was NNR's case bad enough to make you unvote Nuxl but not vote NNR? Did you just forget or something? It feels awkward to me.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
I still want Shadoweh to clarify what she meant because I'm very ??? but I think I understand her vote progression a bit better at least.
I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?
So to explain my gut on sb, I think the best place to start is here.This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.
As I pointed out before, I think making a vote based on "His scumhunting case is too easy" is a cheap shot and a poor justification and he was riding on raikaria's ass for the remainder of the day, which mostly felt scummy to me.
I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.
Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?
Also smh are you just ignoring I have a result on you?Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.
I never said Abu was clearly faking so you're proving you never read my posts at all. Even with that:
This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?
Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.
If mafia shot duskfall with the nightkill there would have been one kill instead of two, Conq plz. It seemed pretty obvi to me that the mafia weren't going to kill Duskfall on their own. I think if Duskfall were town he would have tried to get Abu not to shoot him instead of driving the wagon and making ideas of leashing him long after Abu's lynch was super happening.Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.
My head is at: everyone is scum.
People who defend me are scum.
People who attack me are scum.
People who lurk are scum.
Conq might not be scum, since he's doing what he loves. But if Shadoweh is really low-energy, she might be letting him bus her.
I still don't know why you and Duskfall think Prims was thought to be PR.
[insert sb quote here]And then this is repeated when Refa jumps on the Raikaria wago-wait what
I had the same reaction to Shadoweh TBH and while I'm not sure how scummy that actually is, kinda wanna sheep it for now until I get a better vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
I don't have a result, the rest of you lazy bastards can go back to your regularly scheduled thread.*SCCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMIINGGGG*
I CLAIMED VANILLA YESTERDAY WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ME TO DO, SAY I CHANGED MY MIND AND WAS A VOYEUR THAT WENT TO PRIMS'S HOUSE FOR COOKIES OR SOMETHING?The last time I claimed a result on you when you were mafia you folded instantly, tbh I wanted to see if it would happen again to make my life easy.
You can say that but then we would have just lynched Abu, because when someone openclaims a shot you don't just say 'oh maybe mafia had brain damage and shot the same person you said you were killing in thread'You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.
You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?SB had a scumread and case on NNR based off something he completely misread and basically fell on his face, it was hilarious but not actually indicative of alignment AFAIK
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?
zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.
Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.
I feel like I'm surrounded by mostly townies. This is making me unsure about Dormio.
Can you link to the post you're talking about? I'll remember to take a look.
wait we're on page 35, is this okay?
PR is power role - you have the ability to do something, generally at night. As opposed to say masons/neighbors, innocent child, etc.
Is raik just mechanically a better lynch than Abu here I think they both will get lynched regardless bad it doesn't hurt to let Abu prove himself, unless he shoots me and is scum vig which would admittedly be big sad
Are you unsure about him because you feel like one of the agreeable people has to be scum or was there something else? For me, I think I'm like "I've historically disagreed with Dormio's cases but his thought process is fine" so it's hard to have a TR on that. Also for me, it's like...I don't think it's likely that the entire Abu wagon was town and the people I feel shakiest about on it are Dormio, Serela, and like...Niekstory as a distant third.
WRT SB, I feel like he's less likely to slip up as scum? I read it as him genuinely fire trucking up and having to reevaluate his reads. What about it did you find damning?
I hate this stupid post restriction that I put on myself and how much time it wastes because I manually format everything like an idiot.Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3
Yeah, the Abu wagon needs to be looked at again. I wasn't focusing on it yet. When I said there has to be one it's just me organizing my thoughts and giving olive branches to discussion. I get a tingling sensation when I start townreading most of the page so I referred back to the lack of Dormio's presence to come to some sense of it. When it comes to SB, what seems damning to me is that he backed himself into a corner, and that his jump only ORfish doesn't make sense. I said it to him and I can say it to you-- It's not like his work was invalid due to one hiccup. He just decided it was pointless and sheepishly voted ORfish which did not seem like an organic place of thinking. Even through embarrassment I don't know if he'd just trash his thought so suddenly as town.
Refa, you said "Feel like he was fearkilled as an unlikely doc candidate"
and Duskfall said "Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine"
but I still believe they killed him because he's a good player who had a scum read on me, and I'm today's lynch target. They wouldn't want to kill the town version of sb and then try to convince people that town sb's townread on me was garbage.
Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3
(also, going to bed. refa uh... didn't actually... give me anything I can respond to there, so uh)
Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine
I think Rai's end of day stuff was town, I don't think he literally self-votes and lays down his life as scum there. Maybe he thought it wouldn't go through but I really can't see scum wanting to risk it when they had the big juicy prize of lynching the vig in front of them instead.
And I want to address my case earlier on Nuxl.
When you say something like "this player acts towny as scum and scummy as town" what you are really saying is "I want an excuse to protect or lynch this person whenever I see fit, because anything they do will confirm rather than refute my hypothesis"
If they act real scummy to your benefit? "They're town even more so!"
If they act real scummy to your detriment? You protest mildly while the rest of town lynches them.
If they act real towny to your benefit? "They're getting better at the game"
If they act real towny to your detriment? "Aha, they must be getting coached"
summarizing*
subject to change of course:
me
nuxl (sympathize with him. it should be obvious by now that i dont think hes scum atp unless hes tryharding really hard for this game)
refa (but at the same time, hes not necessarily giving me a lot that i can remember off the top of my head. most notable thing i remember is the questioning session a while back. ill need to reread him to form a more conclusive read)
dormio ish (has dropped off noticeably. could stand to be dropped into neutral (not null duh but))
everyone else not mentioned
nnr (in between null and scumlean)
raikaria (cant get over the slip. and im not going to argue slip semantics anymore, the omission was plain as day)
duskfall (his play was like an exponential graph. but its going down instead of up. feel like hes giving fewer and fewer reasons to tr him)
somewhat n/a but i get the feeling ill have someone here today
lol scumlocks reserved for confscum atp
as a note, i include scumlock and townlock sections in my reads list, so always count those slots (though theyre generally n/a)
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
orly
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?
So, the case doesn't make sense because after I made the case in public you didn't follow through?
I think you looked less scummy later than you did earlier. But I am trying to explain why you looked scummy earlier.
Now? I'm suspicious of everybody now. Abu was town, Prims died, Prims was town, and my reads all got thrown in the garbage.
Refa, I'm always a lynch target and today's my day.
Abu gets mod-confirmed town, and I'm like "Well that was less than likely, but at least I have 24 hours to figure out who the scum are. Duskfall maybe, Conq maybe, AHA it must be Prims"
So yes, I feel good about nobody now.
And I'm a very jokey person, but usually serious when playing Mafia. That statement is serious, as you can tell from context.
Also I can't speak for the people who are saving your slot for later but for me at least it's like every time you make dedicated posts, I'm like "cool Nuxl is town again" and then every time you stop, I'm like "...but what if?". At least for me, you'd be easier to read with some strong scumreads; I can kind of see why other people feel that way about you. Also fair enough on the Duskfall read, just let me know when you're more sure really.
ive honestly been having trouble making dedicated scumreads recently. my townreads are high confidence and that matters the most to me
god i want to engage with you on tommy to help my own read but don't want to expose a tell for when i play with him again uuuugh. as a starting point, do you remember how you read him in ocnoc2?
Start at #974 to about #982. There's also his case a bit back, but he discarded every momentum he had on NNR and shifted over to his second option ORfish kinda badly.Okay, I looked at this. I guess I can't fault SB for not realizing NNR's vote on Serela was a jokevote because I remember a few other people commenting on the Serela vote at the time (although i thought it was pretty clear given the reason he stated for his vote, illiteracy truly has infected motk). The switch to oarfish is definitely awkward yeah. I dunno if that in itself makes him more likely to be scum though since it would have been easy for mafia!him to stay on NNR and he wouldn't look like a fool for jumping to oarfish.
How do you think Serela compares to his scum meta now? You mentioned he had difficulty faking reads on town (honestly kind of seeing him having trouble coming up with scumreads) but is there anything else? Actually if you have anything on NNR, that would help too because that's another read I'm struggling with.tbh Serela's #1020 definitely gives me scum!serela who tried to make a case on someone but just couldn't vibes. so yeah i've been seeing that on his d2 as well. i dont have any real quantifiable way to describe the rest of his meta, i just remember it was a "feeling" i got, and it still only worked about half the time, and i'm rusty enough that im not relying on it anyway.
define Statement43
{
I hate this game.
}
query (Dormio Ergo Sum)
{
cout <<loop (Statement43)
}
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it was raikarias slip not dusks
im just voting dusk for getting progressively worse throughout yesterday and for weirdly defending the dude tunneling him
It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.
Oh wait. Shadoweh isn't softconfirmed scum anymore. I actually have to vote her again.
##Vote Shadoweh
Am I over examining or is this a slip
wait we're on page 35, is this okay?
Where's the slip? Assuming Rai is town? I know you said you hadn't been reading as much but I think the only person to even question it after the EoD was Nuxl.
wait what do you "sympathize" with me about
dont understand your dormio and tommy reads
Who asked if scum has daytalk btw you are officially clear
Conq what part of 1020 made you lean scum!Serela? I actually started townreading them from the post because it looks like a genuine thought process and I don't know if Serela is brave enough to just post an abandoned case like that as scum. I don't really follow where you vote came from here?it looks like a genuine thought process yes, and that's what makes me think he's scum and not town. it looks like his scum read on refa just dissolves because he can't keep up the pretense.
Honestly Refa's posts are relatable and adorable. They're not BLATANTLY scummy like me yelling at Shadoweh and Abu for emptyposting, but there's also a very noticeable pattern.And then this is repeated when Refa jumps on the Raikaria wago-wait whatserela, what was the noticeable pattern you were going to talk about originally? And what about Refa's vote pinged you in the first place, can you explain?
Sorry Serela, still trying to sort out my thoughts here. What's bothering me about you is1.If you mean, "didn't care who got lynched between Abu and Shadoweh", this is correct! However, please keep in mind, that it's because both of them are (were?) my top scumreads. A Rai lynch would have been terrible and when I realized that it was seriously heading in that direction I was like "wait what, dude, no"
1) At the end of the day, it felt like you didn't really care about who got lynched
2) I can get having a hard time scumreading coming into today but it read to me like what Conq described your scum meta as
So I'd like to know
1) Why are your null reads where they are? Why can't they be town or scum reads?
2) What happened to your cases from yesterday? Legit question because I don't actually remember them.
2) What happened to your cases from yesterday? Legit question because I don't actually remember them.I started out with a Rai sort-of-case but after that end-of-day debacle Rai is a townread. Then I had the abu case (lynched) and the shadoweh case (currently voting her). D1 I also mentioned your Rai hop rubbing me wrong but last night I had that post where I actually reread you and found out I was totally wrong there and you're a townread now! I think that covers everything I talked about looking scummy D1 already.
Conq, I think the gambit was really obvious, to me at least(“don’t hammer guys”) but seriously I think this is town!Shadoweh. Town!Shadoweh gets more annoyed while being under pressure from things she thinks are bullstrawberries and scum!Shadoweh doesn’t have the same kind of reaction, she just tries to make herself as small as possible iirc and blend in while watching townies kill each other. She is low presence but I think that’s more because she’s been swallowed up by a hella active game thread.Well I guess I can understand Shadoweh being low presence regardless of alignment because she doesn't really play mafia anymore, but the biggest thing that pinged me was that she never tried to engage with me D1 despite all my efforts. And then it just took me fakeclaiming a result on her for her to pop in and finally respond and fairly quickly at that! Seems like she was actually reading along the thread or possibly someone alerted her to it. (The other option is that town!Shadoweh was also reading along earlier and made a conscious decision not to engage, which would annoy me on a different level if true).
Wrt Oarfish: my old read on them was town, because I felt like they had conviction in their arguments even if the logic was faulty and I felt like that was more likely to come from town. I forced myself to try and pay more attention to Oarfish and Zeep on reread because my eyes tended to glaze over their posts at first, and felt worse because I didn’t actually feel like they believed their scumreads. The conviction in their arguments I felt before felt more like they believed they’d just made a really good push, but it didn’t feel like they were trying to discern anyone’s alignment.
When Nuxl asked how they would deal with reading a player who had an unconventional playstyle they flake on the answer and get mad at a completely different point, which is weird, and later they miss the point of why Dormio found their Shadoweh vote suspicious (timing instead of content). Idk, it feels like they’re wilfully ignoring things that doesn’t work with what they want to do and that bothers me a lot. I also think their Shadoweh suspicion kinda aged badly, it feels built around the fact that “Shadoweh can do better” which is not solid and honestly makes their reaction to Conq’s gambit weird. If Oarfish had a scumread on Shadoweh then why are they ignoring Conq’s ongoing push on them? You’d think that they’d show interest but most of their posting today has revolved around themselves instead, like saying that Prims was killed so he couldn’t change their read on them (when you could easily say Prims was killed because he would’ve wanted to lynch scum!Oarfish too).
Oarfish, what happened to your Shadoweh read and what do you think of what she just posted?
What definitely stood out to me as weird, however, was Conqueror's gambit to claim a result on Shadoweh. I like to think of Conqueror as being smart enough to realize beforehand how stupid the whole gambit was, but it's also not as though Conqueror tried to drag it out given how quickly and readily Conqueror was willing to drop the entire charade, so I am legitimately confused so as to what the point of the entire song and dance was.It was pretty stupid; there's a reason why I dropped it pretty quickly after her response! I did it because I figured if there was even a 1% chance that Shadoweh would just slip up from it then it was worth a try. And if it didn't it would still likely get her to post more, which would make her more readable to me. Also, I've always wanted to do something stupid like this and seeing as I don't play mafia anymore this might be my last chance
Why don't you think that they're scum together?Actually, you're right, I guess Shadoweh hasn't actually pushed Serela directly and it wouldn't be out of place for Serela to get confirmation bias on a Shadoweh buddy. Ah yes motk meta is flowing back to me despite all efforts to shut it out.
Refa, I'm always a lynch target and today's my day.i find this post incredibly relatable, around d3 the serela townreads are usually pretty secure but it's not like anyone ever actually liked my cases except for maybe Subterranean Animism Mafia where the mafia thought I must be a cop *sobs* NOT EVEN MY SLAM DUNK SUPER CLEAR OBVIOUS CASES IN SWORDGIRLS ANONYMAFIA THAT WERE ALSO ALL CORRECT
You murder the convincing players and lynch the unconvincing players, right? When's the last time anyone said "Ho yes Oarfish, that argument was very persuasive. I shall now vote alongside you"
No, it's always "Oarfish is a wacky dude, he's more than likely town but who really knows"
[talking about shadoweh] i didn't like hate their eod but totally was buying the claim as i read the page lmao so i felt justified for being pinged by them earlier itg. gun to head i'd say the reaction town but what the hell does that leave for the rest of the game rightEh, any mafia worth their salt wouldn't immediately cave to a town reporting a night result on them, and she might not have even had an action to witness regardless of being maf. (even if not mafia goon, there's passives and junk) Or if you mean the claim, claiming early tends to feel like a more town-leaning action, even though it's not actually -hard- to do as mafia, and she had enough justification with the people talking about wagoning her (albiet it looked unlikely to happen, but it was a possibility) so eh
own!Shadoweh gets more annoyed while being under pressure from things she thinks are bullstrawberries and scum!Shadoweh doesn’t have the same kind of reaction, she just tries to make herself as small as possible iirc and blend in while watching townies kill each other.but isn't she pretty much just doing the thing you said is her scum!meta
I was asked about this in private and it made me remember that convention differs from web sight to web sight and even from game to game on a given web sight so I should be clear about it in public: Scum do have daytalk.
web sight web sight web sightkilga confirmed for having spider vision
serela, what was the noticeable pattern you were going to talk about originally? And what about Refa's vote pinged you in the first place, can you explain?Oh I'm sorry, I thought it was clear already- the pattern was supposed to be Refa sheeping votes to wagon hop without providing anything that made the vote legitimate. But then I realized I was totally wrong and the Rai vote was not that. And then all the posts after that seemed... increasing not scum.
Also, I've always wanted to do something stupid like thisI'M PROUD OF YOU CONQ
I can't connect the dots entirely as to who Tommy is so I feel I'm missing a chunk of conversation. I'm back to not tinfoiling Dormio, his posts (still) resonate with me.which part of dormio's posts resonate with you and made you rechange your mind on him? And what did you mean by dormio's lack of presence, just him not posting in the thread at the same time yesterday?
dusk, who do you even want to lynch at this point?
tommy is duskfall
I'm saying Abu said 'i am going to shoot Duskfall' and people, like for example, YOU, suggested that Abu is clearly faking and we should keep on the Abu train, Duskfall literally voted him to stay alive when a confirmed town would be worth his life....ok, I mean, at least she has a reason that's not total garbage, but still, I think this is a garbage reason. Dusk is scum because he didn't want to die for Abu's sins? This reasoning is terrible ftr. ALSO AGAIN, EVEN IF WE HAD HARD CONFIRMATION HE SHOT SOMEONE, HE COULD STILL HAVE BEEN A SERIAL KILLER, this is a 17 person game confirmed to potentially have a third party so that wasn't even remotely unlikely (well, at this point it's probably unlikely, but this is d2)
If all the lead wagons were town yesterday then that would suggest the people being active are actually town while scum afks but half the slots in the game haven't really done anything for me to read them on and my solve is very poor at the momenttbf this would be very Motk Meta and I would be zero surprised if the scumteam turned out to be like, Niektory ActionDan NNR (not saying this is the case, but, i would not be surprised)
morning zwerd. is there a reason you're still on shadoweh?
Zwerd flipping onto my when he townread me yesterday is kinda bad I dunno why he done that out the gate today, it is bad play but again is it scummy or is it just "oh my god let's blame dusk for the mislynch"
Side note: that mislynch wasn't my fault and p much 2/3 of the game thought abu was a decent lynch so blaming one person is dumb
i dont think ive trd you lmao
please point out where ive said that i have
it looks like a genuine thought process yes, and that's what makes me think he's scum and not town. it looks like his scum read on refa just dissolves because he can't keep up the pretense.
Well I guess I can understand Shadoweh being low presence regardless of alignment because she doesn't really play mafia anymore, but the biggest thing that pinged me was that she never tried to engage with me D1 despite all my efforts. And then it just took me fakeclaiming a result on her for her to pop in and finally respond and fairly quickly at that! Seems like she was actually reading along the thread or possibly someone alerted her to it. (The other option is that town!Shadoweh was also reading along earlier and made a conscious decision not to engage, which would annoy me on a different level if true).
Also, I didn't even read Shadoweh as annoyed before her reaction to my gambit, she felt lazy and unmotivated with a hint of doomerism. I do think her annoyance at my gambit was real but if she figured it out it was a gambit from the start then I don't see how it's alignment indicative.
I'll do a reread of oarfish after work before I can actually see if I follow that case I think. I don't know how to read oarfish. My experience with him is that he sorta marched to his own beat as town and I guess it would be true as scum too so I don't know how I'd sort him. Interested in seeing his response to you.
You said you were gonna sheep me at one point so I assume that meant you townread my but maybe not I guess
@zwerdjb btw you mentioned that townreading someone who is tunneling you is scummy, I am gonna be honest I don't even know in which context you are referring to this situation happening, but I am curious as to why you think that is scummy
Yeah, I mean I don't find you scummy for it, but it makes it hard to read you with confidence; I can get why other people have a hard time reading you basically.
Damn, the tryharding is real. TBH, I remember reading you and Tommy super differently in OCNOC2. You were just obvious town to everyone IIRC and he was like...I don't think a consensus town read IIRC but someone I never really doubted being scum kind of thing? I don't remember the game too well though beyond that.
This is the biggest Serela energy post I've seen in a while LMAO. I did have the same thought as you yesterday feeling like Refa was following me a lot ftr but we tend to have similar opinions in a lot of NOC games (like the most recent one we played together THANKS FOR NOTHING LEET) so I don't feel like its meaningful? And also scum!Refa is easily depressed and I haven't really seen that from them yet, so I'm not particularly worried.
1.If you mean, "didn't care who got lynched between Abu and Shadoweh", this is correct! However, please keep in mind, that it's because both of them are (were?) my top scumreads. A Rai lynch would have been terrible and when I realized that it was seriously heading in that direction I was like "wait what, dude, no"
2.I mean, I came into the day with more scumreads than you 8)
second question set!
1)The lurkers simply don't have enough content to judge, nor is it late enough in the game that their nonpresence itself is directly scummy. (Unfortunately for Dan's case, hard lurking is neutral regardless, but that's a different problem). Dormio's self-inflicted restriction makes it difficult for me to analyze him and this is true for most of the times that Dormio plays, simply because it's more difficult to read his posts. It's not like I HAVEN'T read them, but... it's like having an encryption layer over it and merely reading the post is suddenly only enough to get an idea of what he's trying to say, but it's harder to extract the 'feel' of it ._. Like, it's a gut-read-removal-filter. This is from the person who vigged conq D2 once based purely on a single post he made that I couldn't logically explain why it wasn't town and no one really took issue with, but I just saw it and went "...no. This feels wrong. Conq's scum". (and he did flip scum after I tortured him inthread with unreasonable questions for a little bit so I could watch him squirm :D)
I often get the scummy feeling first, and THEN try to analyze them and justify it for the rest of the players, instead of actually starting with analysis to find something that's wrong. (this is part of why my scum games tend to fall apart quickly, apart from me often just being really bad in general before mid-D2 as either alignment)
oh and nuxl just kind of spamposted over the entire day hard enough that my eyes were glazing over. TBH I can't even recall anything he did in the last 30+ hours of d1. Was he barely posting or was I glazing over them that hard? I'll have to reread that.
04rfish is hard to for me to judge because it's hard to judge people whose logic I struggle to understand. They're voting SB now right? I actually don't even have a listed opinion for SB (even a listed non-opinion), I need to reread that too
uh who's left. duskfall only showed up near the end of the day and I wasn't gonna lynch someone like a day after they showed up because how're you gonna have any reliable read that fast, so I still need to go back over that, and then dipping into my scumread part of the list well, Refa's actually on the townread part now
I haven't actually caught up with literally anything past the post from Refa I just quoted, so I'mma read up the two new pages now.
Do you think that scum!Serela drops the case though when he doesn't have a good fallback option just like that? It looks like Serela is actually looking for scum and just comes up short when they examine their suspicions more closely to me because I don't think scum!Serela benefits from this unless they're on a scumteam with Oarfish and Shadoweh or something and the entire team is imploding.
I guess that you say Serela struggles to fake scumreads on townies when he's mafia that's fair but I feel like when he's under pressure like this he'd be able to produce something to try and aleviate the suspicions on himself with. I think he's writing himself into too much of a corner to be scum. We'll see though, I am kind of waffling on this a little after realising how much Serela is going off on tangents before remembering that this is Serela and that just kind of happens.
Zeep feels a lot more reactive today than yesterday. It might just be because their posting slowed down a lot but I feel like the suspicions aren't really showing in their posts?
nope that's a different game unfortunately
I think if I was scum, I'd be happier TBH.
1. I meant in general, really. Like you had defined reads on Abu and Shadoweh but I don't remember feeling like you pushed them hard?
2. :my_b:
3. Oh, I don't blame anyone for nullreading the lurkers. At this point, I wouldn't classify NNR as a lurker but that's a different point. Fair enough on your Dormio read though. I feel like you can just read the bottom portion of Dormio posts and it's pretty easy though if you're lazy, so uh I recommend doing that. For Nuxl, maybe just give your opinion of him today since he's posted a lot less. Overall, the vibe I'm getting is that the thought process behind your reads isn't bad, but it's not like...something that makes me feel better about you? It's weird because I like your tone but not your actions is how I'd put it. Wait no, that's wrong, I like your Shadoweh vote.
I think there's a difference from dropping a case and not having a case.
What do you mean by writing himself into a corner?
I have no idea what Zeep's suspicions are TBH, which is probably worrying on some level.
wait what's ocnoc 2 then
How many scum (assuming no ITP shenanigans) can reasonably be expected in a 17p game again?
@Nuxl Wait, is that Leet's Smogon game? I was thinking of the SF game we played TBH.
1. I meant in general, really. Like you had defined reads on Abu and Shadoweh but I don't remember feeling like you pushed them hard?I feel like this is something people said about me multiple times in past games too but like... all my posts towards end of day were mainly about how scummy Abu and Shadoweh were and that we should lynch them, so, I don't understand??? :C
I am actually angry that something that obviously self-preservationalist doesn't ring other people's alarms like it does mine, instead we chose between the town vig and someone who offered to kill themselves because they realized how bad this was.
So in conclusion, lynch Duskfall and maybe Serela for good fortune.
Also smh are you just ignoring I have a result on you?
I don't have a result, the rest of you lazy bastards can go back to your regularly scheduled thread.
It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.
@Fabloo It may have looked like one hiccup, but reframing everything NNR did with the understanding that their Serela vote was a joke makes the majority of their actions make sense. The exception to this is the Abu shift which I would like an answer for still (@NNR) but like, read my NNR case again and think about it. Why would I keep pushing it aside from the Abu point?
which part of dormio's posts resonate with you and made you rechange your mind on him? And what did you mean by dormio's lack of presence, just him not posting in the thread at the same time yesterday?
End of Day 1 Vote Count
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (9): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, sb, Shadoweh, AbuHumaid
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (4): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, \
He seems to know I'm town
If pmd hadn't been just realised I would be tunneling nuxl rn I think, but it has been released so that's an excuse why he isn't being scummyOh nice nuxl is conf town he can carry me
I don't like playing around familiarity. It's fine to know someone but don't dangle it like a carrot in front of my face. I also dislike the sudden phrasing like something clicked and you didn't bother to tell anyone; I haven't been able to find a paper trail for your thoughts.
He seems to know I'm town
If pmd hadn't been just realised I would be tunneling nuxl rn I think, but it has been released so that's an excuse why he isn't being scummy
Oh nice nuxl is conf town he can carry me
Duskfall, your first post in relation to Nuxl:
I don't like playing around familiarity. It's fine to know someone but don't dangle it like a carrot in front of my face. I also dislike the sudden phrasing like something clicked and you didn't bother to tell anyone; I haven't been able to find a paper trail for your thoughts.
That was before he was modspewed not mafia because the mod publicly outted him for asking if mafia have scum chat in private
Independently speaking, what do you think of NNR right now? He has the same heated response for everything. Dormio mentioned that reading him is useless and not a viable lynch option, but where I had my concerns with NNR is that he's just hot air. His words seem very blunt and is willing to brandish them like a knife at anyone who opposes him, but doesn't actually stab anyone. Him calling your case bullstrawberries, getting all upset. Just seems par for the course. Everything and anything will piss him off. How do you read that?(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/626141173047754756/687038775481597973/Capture_2020-03-10-16-46-26.png)
I completely missed this and even if it doesn't matter now, what were you hinting at before. From what I see, you know Zwerd as well. Is this a game where all 3 of you are town?
I've never played forum mafia with zeep I played ps turbo which doesn't count at all, I've commented on nuxls meta earlier about him losing stamina as scum
Zwerd, who is scum
i know I'm procrastinating on my rereads (AND DRINKING VODKA SO WELP ABOUT THOSE ATM) but at least I -have- a scumread I'm more than happy to be voting
poe'ing half the players is not a great place to be in, even if I don't think you're scum you do need to get on that. Narrow it down farther and work from there.
i saw a bit that changed my mind, but it was mostly the fact that he was defending someone based on a point i made that he thought was invalid. i think its a townie move to not push raikaria there using the slip. alternatively, he could be scum expecting this to happen, but... hrngh.
he cant keep his thoughts straight, but upon rereading him, his process makes more sense now
I think Niek is definitely overwhelmed regardless of alignment but want to see more from them. Their drop-ins remind me a lot of the first game I played as scum (popping in to talk about rule stuff because that felt easy) and they're evidently paying attention to the game but aren't engaged at all. I kind of expected some kind of townie confusion here? But instead they seem really laid back without wanting to get involved much. Niek, what did you think of the end of the day? Do you think Raikaria is also town, or do you think he's mafia and why?I'm afraid my extremely timid personality is showing. I joined something really out of my comfort zone.
Who asked if scum has daytalk btw you are officially clearNot me, but you can deduce from my Day 1 posts that I assumed they don't have it.
There's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?"tming"?
don't think we have enough to cfd literally anywhere else though, someone tell me if this is out of scum!raik's gambit range"cfd"?
You're the wafflemaster because you usually waffle."waffle"?
Independently speaking, what do you think of NNR right now? He has the same heated response for everything. Dormio mentioned that reading him is useless and not a viable lynch option, but where I had my concerns with NNR is that he's just hot air. His words seem very blunt and is willing to brandish them like a knife at anyone who opposes him, but doesn't actually stab anyone. Him calling your case bullstrawberries, getting all upset. Just seems par for the course. Everything and anything will piss him off. How do you read that?
I'm afraid my extremely timid personality is showing. I joined something really out of my comfort zone.
My read on NNR is: confusing.
Not sure what to make of his vote on me fizzling out after I backed down, but I can see a world where he's like "ok he's not pushing this bullstrawberries case anymore so he's less scummy" when we've converged on Oarfish now. That being said, @NNR what puts Shadoweh over Oarfish for you? Is it literally the not voting thing, or is it to do with Shadoweh's posts today?
Question about your Nuxl read (Fabloo): are you looking at their D1 content in a new light now? Or is this solely focused on what they posted today?
Zeep, talk to me about Fabloo. Did you think that their sub in was null? NNR too just to throw out a name of someone I think there's enough content to form an opinion of.
@NNR what puts Shadoweh over Oarfish for you? Is it literally the not voting thing, or is it to do with Shadoweh's posts today?partially that Shadoweh is actually voting, partially that I already had oarfish earlier, and partially (begrudgingly) because Dormio is also voting Oarfish
Appreciate the straightforward answer but I was being actually literal. How do you read that? As in, how do you read someone with that behavior. Do you think scum would be more likely to fall back on their attitude in times of pressure? Or is he just venting as town? I don't know you're familiar with each other and I'm sure this would be easier if you were. If anyone is (or you are) try to fill a few things in for me.
When it comes to Nuxl, it's not really a new light rather what I observed and what I said about him might've been careless. I did feel like he had a fire ignited but now it's wilted and he seems directionless. There is a point made that Duskfall mentioned that he asked about if scum can talk outside of the thread but. I can't base my read alone on that.
Hey, I realized I can P R O V E that I'm not mafia: I would have shot Refa. You can't deny this, obvi obvitown for me. :relieved:I may be pretty drunk but I've made the "mafia wouldn't do ____!" arguement as mafia too many times to possibly go for this
NNR what puts Shadoweh over Oarfishto also confirm what you think, I actually made sure to double check if Shadoweh was actually voting before I switched, because i considered it
My read on NNR is: confusing.
Not sure what to make of his vote on me fizzling out after I backed down, but I can see a world where he's like "ok he's not pushing this bullstrawberries case anymore so he's less scummy" when we've converged on Oarfish now. That being said, @NNR what puts Shadoweh over Oarfish for you? Is it literally the not voting thing, or is it to do with Shadoweh's posts today?
Question about your Nuxl read (Fabloo): are you looking at their D1 content in a new light now? Or is this solely focused on what they posted today?
Zeep, talk to me about Fabloo. Did you think that their sub in was null? NNR too just to throw out a name of someone I think there's enough content to form an opinion of.
My thoughts are straight smh
oh god there's still so many -.- Hey, I realized I can P R O V E that I'm not mafia: I would have shot Refa.
I feel like this is something people said about me multiple times in past games too but like... all my posts towards end of day were mainly about how scummy Abu and Shadoweh were and that we should lynch them, so, I don't understand??? :C
Abu was looking like the de-facto lynch of the day for most of the end of the phase and lots of people voiced interest in lynching Shadoweh so I didn't need to like, actively yell at people about why they weren't voting them, if you mean something like that?
I agree that she is coasting but I don't necessarily think it's scum coasting unless she is like, literally scum with Rai Abu Oarfish and cutting her losses by not engaging too heavily with the game but if that's the case uh, I'll accept being wrong because we're probably just going to win anyway.
Do you think that scum!Serela drops the case though when he doesn't have a good fallback option just like that? It looks like Serela is actually looking for scum and just comes up short when they examine their suspicions more closely to me because I don't think scum!Serela benefits from this unless they're on a scumteam with Oarfish and Shadoweh or something and the entire team is imploding.
NNR is reactive regardless of alignment but I've only played with scum!NNR once and that was when he was alt scumteam in a multiball game and I was hard checked out of the game. I think that it's definitely within scum!NNR's range based on a game I read (C9++ I think?) so I'm kind of hoping that roles or associations solves him because it might be more reliable than play. With those in mind I'm keeping an eye on him but I don't think I would vote there right now.
@Refa I mean that at the rate Serela is writing off people he wouldn’t have good mislynches to push as scum. If his lynch pool dries up he’d probably have to make a really jank pivot but it’s hard to do even that because he has recently reread people so it’d be like “why did you not pick up on this the second time around?”
It's less that and more...the cases, I guess. I don't actually see you pushing Shadoweh a lot at the end of the day, but that's fine because she wasn't a lynch candidate at that time anyways. For Abu, uh...fair enough honestly I'm wrong there upon a reread.Ok i'm still pr-drunky but I think I can respond to this fine
Nah, I don't think yelling at people is uh...very productive TBH unless people are throwing hard.
At the moment, I think your Day 1 is mostly fine (still waffled a lot but what you did have was fine and yeah, you're right, you definitely pushed it at the end of the day) and your Day 2 feels like your reads haven't progressed since Day 1? Have the Abu/Prims flips changed your opinion on anyone? What about the Abu wagon? Do you think there were any scum on it and, if so, who would you first suspect? I know you're voting Shadoweh who was technically on the wagon but only to get a lynch there; moreso checking if you're interested in anyone before that.
Also this is probably unfair to you but I'm definitely interested in how your wagon progresses versus the Oarfish wagon (especially NNR's vote putting Oarfish ahead before Niek immediately tied the two of you again). Not treating this as a 1v1, but it's kind of how I'd expect wagons to progress if at least one was scum kind of thing.
I guess reading is helpful, I don't think a scum Serela makes posts like 1091. Like I really don't think Serela pulls off 'smug that im right' as scum.
Town:
Meaniequeror
Raikaria
Celery
Fabloo
Probably Town:
Dormio
Zwerb
Nuxl? tbh i still can't read all his posts but i just don't see him being scum i guess
Who else is even in this game
1. O4rfish (Rumia)
7. sb (Sanae Kochiya)
12. Refa (Reimu Hakurei)
13. ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika)
14. NekoNekoRex (Chen)
15. Duskfall98 (Shinki)
17. Niektory (Yukari Yakumo)
oh god there's still so many -.- Hey, I realized I can P R O V E that I'm not mafia: I would have shot Refa. You can't deny this, obvi obvitown for me. :relieved: I kind of think Refa's posts look townie but I can't say I've been reading them in detail, they just have a good tone. That just makes me feel better about my vote though. :shrug: I'm still reading about 2 pages back.
I have been thinking about this first quote for a while now (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1868#msg1868) and I can't come up with any explanation for including my name other than a scumslip. Instead of writing the list of "people who are playing badly" or "people who are major wagons" he wrote the list of "people we (scum) are targeting"
##Vote: sb
I'm afraid my extremely timid personality is showing. I joined something really out of my comfort zone.
I think Raikaria would play it safer as scum, unless he's really ballsy, so I'd say he's town.
Not me, but you can deduce from my Day 1 posts that I assumed they don't have it.
Anyway, I'm going to
##Vote: Serela
for now. He was sowing a lot of doubt to the AbuHumaid's ability to prove himself. This influenced my Day 1 vote, at least.
I don't like how fixated Nuxl seems to be on meta the entire game. It's like he's looking for meta things to nod about rather than actually scumhunting. Also @Nuxl; as I said before, at the start of Day 1, there is no meta atm.
Just leaving this here in case Nuxl flips scum sometime this game: What duskfall just did was a really bad attempt at distancing.
ActionDan has been prodded for inactivity.
re:refa Shadoweh's latest post is BETTER but it doesn't solve the problems from all her previous posts. her townreads are nothing surprising and she null reads half of the living players with no scumreads. This is Terrible still. It takes very little effort to produce this kind of post ,you don't even have to have really read the game.
and I already respondedto "I would have hsot refa!" b/c it's ridiculously easy to make these statements as mafia, and as said, I've made these kinds of posts AS mafia multiple times
Other General Rules
- Everyone must post once every 24 hours. If they do not they will be prodded for activity. Not responding to a prod or repeated prods may result in a modkill. Extenuating circumstances may be given respite if I know about them in advance.
I agree that he seems more out of things but I'm not sure if that makes him scum rather than just busy. His D1 still holds up fine I think and he has reasons to be less motivated outside of the game, so unless he just got hard complacent I don't see why motivation would be an issue for scum!Nuxl? Especially because he seemed surprised that everyone was giving him a pass coming into the day. It could be wifom so I don't think it's a point worth townreading him for but I feel like the dropoff can be justified.
Not fully caught up with the thread but wanted to catch nuxl while he was still here.
@nuxl what's your current read on tommy? he's massively dropped off d2 to the point where I can't tell what he's thinking anymore when I remember I could still get a general idea of where he stood in the game d1. "oarfish town conq town raik town" as the only reads list of his is like, okay, is that it? I remember him saying in MU spec chat that his town meta was to be super aggressive and get into fights with people and his scum meta was the opposite or something like that and although D1 felt like the former D2 really feels like the latter atm.
Problem is that Shadoweh is also voting for...being self-pres against a claimed vig when I don't feel like that's a strong reason to think he's mafia.
how important is "why?"well i dont need you to out any secret towntells or anything but if you have something you could share that would help me solve a little better
Shadoweh's response seems not very scummy to me. Her activity today looks better than her activity yesterday.Which part of her response did you like?
i hate homework but post what you were thinking of anyway. if it's a past game im not reading it but it might be useful still.
well i dont need you to out any secret towntells or anything but if you have something you could share that would help me solve a little better
how much of a personal meta person are you? (can you answer my previous questions i mentioned you for you too)
i have something to say following this but given i don't know anything about you i think i'm in my right to poke around there
Adding to that Nuxl, which type of person is Duskfall? From the examples I've given. What do you consider yourself as?
i'm 100% the first archetype, i think i'm an easy read if people actually read a few games or two. literal night and day. this is because my interest in any game is usually heavily driven by my alignment and post count is a tell for me and nobody cares enough to do it
dusk is probably the first of the three (mostly everyone on smogon is with a few exceptions: the site as a whole usually has a very strong tophalf set of players as town who as scum get caught a lot easier) but the last two times i had to read him the first (https://forum.mafia451.com/t/9p-mountainous-2-8/3155/102) he idled out of d1 completely (intentionally, this game isn't a meta indicator for him) and got lynched and the second (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/shots-noc-game-thread-mafia-wins.3658457/) i knew he was being weird but didnt have the balls to push a wagon on him.
there's a fair handful of players that are way easier to discern based on game differences on my homesite than tommy is but he's still catchable (the best player on our site who uses pmeta usually catches him pretty often)
are you a homework person fabloo
I think people who fall into the hypothetical third are those who should be fact-checked more often then. He's going to sit behind meta or even idle until people stop paying attention. I really have nothing substantial to say about him other than he is here sometimes and then he is not. That's a bit troubling if you compare the output to others. Writing paragraphs or extensive thought isn't the ticket I'm looking for either, you can say a lot with one sentence. It's just that Duskfall hasn't done that. I have no problem with people who are concise, but if you can tell me an opinion that you can solidly remember that he's given that actually followed some kind of process that you could refer back to? I'd like to see it. I think he's being intentionally coy and I haven't liked it since D1.
@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment
define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game
sorry how is the bolded relevant, can you lmk wrt idling and who you're referring to with the "hypothetical third" archetype. understood otherwise.
I don't think "opinion" is the word here wrt tommy but inthread behavior is probably more important. Maybe I'm giving too much credit for stuff I want to see, but let me know what you think.
this no longer becomes a tell when i say it but the funny part is tommy's entrances into a thread on our homesite are super different based on alignment (won't specify HOW but given a certain sample i think you can pick it up). he's a bit more scared as scum. he doesn't really seem scared at all this game. didn't really ping me awkwardly since he got right to the point with his entrance (iirc some of them were pretty fresh and he was first vote on abu) and had sorta forceful behavior since.
i actually typed something else up instead of this line right here but was reading a prior game and realized it was no longer true. maybe dont treat my word like it's gospel on this instance but i still kinda tr the behavior
I was connecting the dots. Being scared? Yeah, I don't know if I'd say Duskfall is scared. My impression of him as a player is that he fakes it until he makes it. He believes what he says until he himself or others can't deny it. You don't need to confirm my thoughts. I just wonder how long he has to continue what he's doing before it becomes a problem.
@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment
define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game
@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment
define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game
Conq, did I miss you responding to me? It's been an actual real life day now so I think I'd rather just like to hear your opinion about me instead of opinion about a catch-up. I disagree with your concerns about Shadoweh and I cannot read someone like Serela, and believe me I'm trying to.i think i responded earlier today, yeah.
@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperimentFor me, passive applies to anyone who isn't actively moving along the game state, whether it's due to a lack of presence or a lack of mentality. duskfall didn't feel passive to me yesterday but he feels passive to me today.
define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game
For me, passive applies to anyone who isn't actively moving along the game state, whether it's due to a lack of presence or a lack of mentality. duskfall didn't feel passive to me yesterday but he feels passive to me today.
To Refa in re Serela's voters, Serela's posts
Serela is tough for me to read. I've misread Serela with high confidence, as people know.
Refa - you don't appear to be confident about Serela. Is he really your strongest scumread?
Niektory - literally dunno about her slot. Her vote for Serela sort of makes sense but she could accuse other players of acting similarly.
Conq is a pretty good player. I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake. Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit.
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid. But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid.
i think i responded earlier today, yeah.
i don't have a real opinion on you yet. you seem like a skilled, cautious player, with a playstyle similar to mine in some way in that you make a lot of gamestate reads rather than player reads although i feel like you use gamestate reads more. im gauging you less on your posts and where your pushes line up compared to who i think is scummy. i'm not sure why you went from voting me (a pretty aggressive vote gamestate-wise) to voting someone like niektory (a complete black hole and a coin flip as far as im concerned). at the same time though im also interested in the niektory thing takes off or if it just stalls there.
Nobody seemed to even consider it anyways. My vote on you. I'm close to reading you the same way but where I'm at right now is I catch you bussing if you're scum or I get shot in the back before I can do it. Are Shadoweh/Serela scumread separately, or are they paired? I'm not sure if you agree but I don't like trying to solve the whole game by myself, even if I'm thinking about it. I take it one scumlynch at a time until the game is over. I think Niektory has the highest chance or at least will give us some breathing hence my vote is there.I'm evaluating them separately until we get a flip. I think they could be paired but it's not a consideration in my mind right now (I haven't caught up on Serela's latest content ftr, might change to something else). I'm pretty similar re:not trying to solve the game by myself and going one lynch at a time so I can understand that at least. What's the reason you have Niek as the highest chance?
I'm evaluating them separately until we get a flip. I think they could be paired but it's not a consideration in my mind right now (I haven't caught up on Serela's latest content ftr, might change to something else). I'm pretty similar re:not trying to solve the game by myself and going one lynch at a time so I can understand that at least. What's the reason you have Niek as the highest chance?
Nuxl - Niektory voted for Abu, who flipped as his claim. She wanted to blame someone, and if Serela's post was what influenced her to vote, then she would be upset with Serela.
Conq and Shadoweh and Serela have played many games with each other. If they have a strong read, it's probably accurate. If they're town, they'll tell the truth about having a strong read. However, if they're scum, they could choose between a true read for false reasons, or a false read for false reasons.
The latest exchange, however, has made me realize that I don't like (O4rfish)'s posts. All (O4rfish) has done so far is make a weak case against (Nuxl) that seemed more like a show of annoyance than anything else and emphasize that we do need to make sure that we lynch somebody at the end of the day, only to drop everything to vote for (NekoNekoRex) for a supposed slip then backing off immediately when an explanation was provided.
It felt to me as though O4rfish's case on Nuxl was extremely forced, which was further evidenced by how quickly he dropped the case in order to chase a supposed scumslip by NekoNekoRex. After that, O4rfish continues to do little of importance, with O4rfish's biggest action being a jump onto Shadoweh's wagon which feels opportunistic to me. Personally, I'd still rather be voting for zwerdjib, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, the punishment for no lynching is hilarious and also something that I never want to see happen and so I feel that this lynch has a higher likelihood of happening.
The very first thing O4rfish does is defend O4rfish, saying that Prims was likely murdered to push a case onto O4rfish. Not only do I believe that this line of thinking comes from an entirely non-town mindset, but it almost seems as though to me that part of the reason why Prims may have been killed was simply so that O4rfish could make this defense for O4rfish. I also dislike how O4rfish sets up his read of Conqueror in such a way that Conqueror is scum bussing an unenthused Shadoweh.
I guess reading is helpful, I don't think a scum Serela makes posts like 1091. Like I really don't think Serela pulls off 'smug that im right' as scum.hey shadowy, can you tell me more about 1091. What's this "smug that im right" thing because I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you talking about this section?
1.If you mean, "didn't care who got lynched between Abu and Shadoweh", this is correct! However, please keep in mind, that it's because both of them are (were?) my top scumreads. A Rai lynch would have been terrible and when I realized that it was seriously heading in that direction I was like "wait what, dude, no"Is this really the basis of your serela townread?
2.I mean, I came into the day with more scumreads than you 8)
@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment
define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game
To Refa in re Serela's voters, Serela's posts
Serela is tough for me to read. I've misread Serela with high confidence, as people know.
Refa - you don't appear to be confident about Serela. Is he really your strongest scumread?
Niektory - literally dunno about her slot. Her vote for Serela sort of makes sense but she could accuse other players of acting similarly.
Conq is a pretty good player. I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake. Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit.
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid. But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid.
Do you think that scum!Serela drops the case though when he doesn't have a good fallback option just like that? It looks like Serela is actually looking for scum and just comes up short when they examine their suspicions more closely to me because I don't think scum!Serela benefits from this unless they're on a scumteam with Oarfish and Shadoweh or something and the entire team is imploding.I mean, yes, why not? Ofc I'm wavering now but if he can't force a case there's literally no other option but to drop it. Also re:writing into corners, think it depends on the player but worst case scenario you just do a reads reset - i remember scum!prims used to do this a lot. don't remember if scum!serela did.
I guess that you say Serela struggles to fake scumreads on townies when he's mafia that's fair but I feel like when he's under pressure like this he'd be able to produce something to try and aleviate the suspicions on himself with. I think he's writing himself into too much of a corner to be scum. We'll see though, I am kind of waffling on this a little after realising how much Serela is going off on tangents before remembering that this is Serela and that just kind of happens.
The lack of engagement thing is fair (I remember feeling similarly early) but I'm not just talking about when you reaction tested her, I also remember her being disgruntled when everyone else had different reads to her (she was townreading Rai prior to the wagon building iirc) and I don't feel like being contrarian fits this. From what I remember of Urist Fortress, scum Shadoweh would just follow along with the crowd and try not to stick out when she was under pressure after being tracked to your vest? Which is kind of a similar situation to here. I also feel like scum!Shadoweh would feel worse about not posting and like, do it more even if it wasn't good compared to a town!Shadoweh that isn't OCing people? But this is less solid.I don't remember much of urist fortress despite playing in it. Well, at least until I decided to go and read it and I hate you forever for it. I can't believe I got in a quotewall argument with dormio d1. anyway in looks like in that game shadoweh came in at the end of d1 and then pushed darkninja through d2...and i didn't read any further because it looks like after d2 it was a rolefest with the scumteam tripping over their own actions. im not sure if that game really applies here given what a trainwreck it was. anyway the thing about the contrarian thing is that she's just kinda contrarian in the background. it's less than i think this is something scum!shadoweh would do than it's something i dont think town!shadoweh would do, if that makes sense.
@Conq- How confident are you in your Shadoweh read?Uh, I wouldn't say I'm confident because I've been wrong in the past, but it's the read I feel the best about right now given what I know of Shadoweh's skill level.
Also conq the problem with my getting into fights less now is that I'm self aware I do it so I actively avoid is because usually what happens is I tunnel too hard, so I've kinda changed how I playsmh there goes my easy meta read
For instance if it was me from last year I'd just be wagoning shadoweh now
shame, im going to sleep now. drop some thoughts for me to read in the morning while im gone.
also you should drop a vote somewhere, anywhere. people shouldn't be sitting on no vote at this stage on the game on day 2, i wanna see where you wanna go.
No, that isn't true. I posted a list of people I'd be fine lynching actually. I haven't looked at the votecount to see what other people are doing tbh. I can only read so much thread before I gget distracted and suddenly I'm watching speedruns at 5am <.<
I don't intend to vote anyone else though so :shrug: I don't particularily care what other people do, I'm going to slam a Duskfall vote down every day and leave until people stop making excuses and lynch him. Or kill me for no reason I guess? Why would you think I don't have preferences when the only thing I posted is a readslist?
No, that isn't true. I posted a list of people I'd be fine lynching actually. I haven't looked at the votecount to see what other people are doing tbh. I can only read so much thread before I gget distracted and suddenly I'm watching speedruns at 5am <.<
I don't intend to vote anyone else though so :shrug: I don't particularily care what other people do, I'm going to slam a Duskfall vote down every day and leave until people stop making excuses and lynch him. Or kill me for no reason I guess? Why would you think I don't have preferences when the only thing I posted is a readslist?
Btw fabloo was asking about how I play, I don't like big long wall posts I usually solve by having conversations in thread which people usually havent been alone with me to do often.
I've no problem explaining things when people ask why but big long cases just aren't my thing unless I'm hard tunneling someone
Oarfish, I literally picked your name as a third in the first quote because you were a talking point aka high chance of being dead before endgame and also probably not likely to talk a lot to Shadoweh out of game to get her posting. The second list is literally the three most voted players of the day (so uh, no, you are a major wagon at this point). Scum will behave differently if there are multiple members of their team under pressure compared to just themselves (it’s hard to ignore other major wagons and you need to decide if you are bussing or not).
Also: I said that I reread and talked about why my read on you changed. If you don’t think you’re a major wagon that I can push (1194) then why would I want to do this as scum?
@Nuxl the games I’m talking about are Omerta(?) and Idolmaster, not looking for likks on phone). Also, townlean on you. I don’t think your posts have gotten worse, there are just less of them.
Does scum!Shadoweh kill the person who she was scumreading who also wasn’t scumreading her if she wants to keep playing contrarian? I feel like its counterproductive becsuse honestly Prims would’ve been the perfect vote for that because he was active enough to post but not hyperactive. Idk, too many things don’t match up for scum!Shadoweh imo.
@Conq wrt Serela I don’t think he’s going for the “reevaluate later” approach because 1) He has already pulled it once and it’d look weird if he did it again 2) I don’t think he actually benefits from Shadoweh’s flip regardless of alignment.
Have more to say but gotta dash.
Townbros rn are: me nuxl conq fabloo raik and oarfish
I think zwerd is likely town but not quite towncore
I think shadoweh and serela is never svs, maybe one of them is but I'm not sure I want to resolve it today it could just be a town slapfight. Shadoweh is playing really terrible and I hate it but part of me is like this is disappointing but also she could just not be reading he game, I'm not sure but if I had to pick I'd lynch weh rn.
That leaves like 6 other people:
Refa and SB I'm kinda looking at their interactions to try rule out them being scum partners I'll read back and see how they've interacted soon, because I think they should be interacting with each other most if they are town from familiarity (at least from refas perspective)
Nnr and Niek I'm ngl I don't have much on and historically they are the type of players I'm known for tunneling and mislynching so I'm gonna try leave that to other people to solve as much as possible
Dan has been underwhelming, I know he idles as either alignment but something about this game even when he's online doesn't have any town flair? Like usually his solving is better when he actually gets on even if he is inactive. So I kinda want to pressure here a bit, though admittedly I have had an awful read on him in the past also but feel like he must be looked at since he's a good player and shouldn't be let float under the radar.
I think I'm missing someone sorry bro I forget who you are
WAIT just realised it's dormio before hitting enter, sorry I still haven't read their posts will do if I have to alter in the game
I dunno I feel like people are saying I'm passive but also I feel like no one else in thread is confidently pushing anyone or overly committed to a lynch everything seems super hedgey which maybe isn't necessarily a bad thing here but it shows that everyone is unsure what we should be doing p
Does scum!Shadoweh kill the person who she was scumreading who also wasn’t scumreading her if she wants to keep playing contrarian? I feel like its counterproductive becsuse honestly Prims would’ve been the perfect vote for that because he was active enough to post but not hyperactive. Idk, too many things don’t match up for scum!Shadoweh imo.SB please remember scum!shadoweh has (probably) 3 other scumbuddies who also have to worry about prims, and that prims imo is one of the scariest town players in the general motk playerbase
I don't disagree. This is what I see right now in terms of who people would lynch. Correct me where I'm wrong
Shadoweh -Duskfall
Refa - Don't know
Zwerd - Don't know
Duskfall - Shadoweh
Serela -
Orfish - Dormio, SB
SB - Orfish
Nuxl - Shadoweh?
Conq - Serela, Shadoweh
ActionDan - Himself
Niektory - Serela
Dormio - ORfish
NNR - SB
Shadoweh is in the lead for the prettiest girl everyone wants to take out in a dark alley and brutally murder.That's our Shadoweh! <3
That's our Shadoweh! <3
By the way, the second biggest wagon is apparently... 04rfish? So could someone summarize what the general case there is and I'll try to get back to that while I'm at work. I mean I need to start -somewhere- (also there's only like 4 people from my reads list that aren't hard lurkers or town now, which is like... sb/o4rfish/nnr/nuxl (oh wait apparently nuxl's town now))
wait that's literally three people and shadoweh and niek/dan lurkers
huh.
it's not like it's been a big subject today or anything
if your answer to the passive question was no then more often than not dusk is town
What passive question
page 41
Answer is no I'm carrying this game
wow
i think i have a really funny tell on you
If I'm my normal dickheaded self I'm town if I'm nice I'm scum, I am aware of this it's kinda funny
thats also not true
it's a certain word you only say as one alignment
Doesn't really answer my questionthis was a very unclear question ok
What does "apparently" mean for you personally
this was a very unclear question ok
"Apparently" means, I looked at the votecount, and was like, "oh, the only other wagon with votes is... o4rfish I guess? I guess I remember that someone voted him at some point but I didn't realize it was this many"
and I have literally no recollection of what the cases are (technically I can backread for them but they tend to be posted in chunks and pieces over multiple posts and also there's 3 votes so this is an easy way to rally multiple different people to articulate their reasoning in a single post upfront, and also ensure those opinions are currently up-to-date instead of from 48 hours ago)
OH WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT "APPARENTLY"S HERE.
Apparently some point you got soft towncleared for asking the mod if scum can daytalk? tbh I didn't look super hard into the backround on that and it's occuring to me that this could have occurred while I was heavily vodka'd so maybe someone should clarify what happened there
Also, finally, just letting everyone know that anybody who is still bothering to read NekoNekoRex's posts are wasting their time and it would be better spent looking elsewhere. This is due to the fact that, as I mentioned during day 1, NekoNekoRex is not a valid lynch target.You keep repeating that. You're focusing a lot on not focusing on him. Seems a bit weird to me.
Why did you vote Abu in the first place? Just Serela specifically, given other people were nagging him near the end of the day? Did specifically Serela influence you?I didn't know who to vote so I voted him to at least make it easier for town to get a lynch.
}
define Statement56
{
This conspiracy theory was immediately ruined by Prims flipping town the next day and my kneejerk reaction was to come up with another conspiracy theory that (ActionDan), (raikaria), and (Nuxl) pushed this last second questioning of Prims to gain some town cred after they shot and flipped Prims.
}
define Statement57
{
Then I looked at who the players in question were and immediately dismissed that particular conspiracy theory.
define Statement75
{
Also, finally, just letting everyone know that anybody who is still bothering to read (NekoNekoRex)'s posts are wasting their time and it would be better spent looking elsewhere.
}
define Statement76
{
This is due to the fact that, as I mentioned during day 1, (NekoNekoRex) is not a valid lynch target.
morning zwerd. is there a reason you're still on shadoweh?
##vote: serela
Going to bed because I didnt' realize how late it was, I'll catch up before work in the morning.
SHADOWEH THIS ISN'T A PASS FOR YOU TO SIT ON YOUR BUTT AND DO NOTHING, IF YOU KEEP DOING THAT MY VOTE IS GOING STRAIGHT BACK ON YOU.
oh god there's still so many -.- Hey, I realized I can P R O V E that I'm not mafia: I would have shot Refa. You can't deny this, obvi obvitown for me. :relieved: I kind of think Refa's posts look townie but I can't say I've been reading them in detail, they just have a good tone. That just makes me feel better about my vote though. :shrug: I'm still reading about 2 pages back.
The latest exchange, however, has made me realize that I don't like (O4rfish)'s posts. All (O4rfish) has done so far is make a weak case against (Nuxl) that seemed more like a show of annoyance than anything else and emphasize that we do need to make sure that we lynch somebody at the end of the day, only to drop everything to vote for (NekoNekoRex) for a supposed slip then backing off immediately when an explanation was provided.
It felt to me as though O4rfish's case on Nuxl was extremely forced, which was further evidenced by how quickly he dropped the case in order to chase a supposed scumslip by NekoNekoRex. After that, O4rfish continues to do little of importance, with O4rfish's biggest action being a jump onto Shadoweh's wagon which feels opportunistic to me. Personally, I'd still rather be voting for zwerdjib, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, the punishment for no lynching is hilarious and also something that I never want to see happen and so I feel that this lynch has a higher likelihood of happening.
The very first thing O4rfish does is defend O4rfish, saying that Prims was likely murdered to push a case onto O4rfish. Not only do I believe that this line of thinking comes from an entirely non-town mindset, but it almost seems as though to me that part of the reason why Prims may have been killed was simply so that O4rfish could make this defense for O4rfish. I also dislike how O4rfish sets up his read of Conqueror in such a way that Conqueror is scum bussing an unenthused Shadoweh.
My lynch priorities are:
sb
Dormio
Shadoweh
I'm not good enough to write a convincing case right now against sb though. So I'll go with this
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
define Statement86
{
(NekoNekoRex)'s posts are not worth reading because (NekoNekoRex) is not a valid lynch target.
}
define Statement87
{
(NekoNekoRex) is not a valid lynch target because I said so.
}
I wasn't saying "you should stop voting me"
I was saying "you should reconsider how solid your case is"
Fabloo it sounds like you're saying I should have chosen my scumreads differently.
Raikaria - "I think your case sucks, and so do other people, so that's multiple data points saying your case sucks"
// It actually hurts my pride a little bit to have to actually state that in thread. Wait, no it doesn't. It just makes me think less of the people who couldn't pick up on the PRcrumbsboulders I've been dropping.
I also haven't seen any sort of statement from NNR concerning any of these statements from Dormio; which is also strange.(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/161574200581029888/687423957221245008/Capture_2020-03-11-18-16-58.png)
I asked if you were crumbing something... I did pick up on something. You just flat-out ignored me asking that.You know people aren't supposed to answer these questions right? <_<
My lynch priorities are:Well that didn't work very well. :V You know a few people have said they find SB suspicious right? Not voting someone because you're afraid you can't take them is wrong, go after the scum! :pepohype:
sb
Dormio
Shadoweh
I'm not good enough to write a convincing case right now against sb though. So I'll go with this
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
I asked if you were crumbing something... I did pick up on something. You just flat-out ignored me asking that.
And you've been claiming NNR is town since Day 1. Before you could have used any PR.
And surely there's still worth in reading NNR? Especially if he's conf town?
I'm gonna sleep on the whole Dormio v O4rfish thing. Keeping my vote on Dormio atm mostly to remind myself of this tomorrow, and I think a Dormio hammer while I'm at work is unlikly.
this is fire trucking lynch grounds honestly
nagl raikaria
Stand by my reads
Stand by loving nuxi
Stand by my hal feud
define hal feud here please?
Wee bit of a cunt
well dan, dormio and nnr are basically confirmed town so there's thatthis comma I just added is pretty important in hindsight
and what does this mean in context of the thread...?
Tommy you’re a dork. Good night.
NOC mafia isn’t friendship unless you’re talking about something else.
Friends don’t make friends join NOC games!
Tommy you’re a dork. Good night.
Tommy go home, you’re dru-Actually drunk.
I am sleepy and still slightly baffled that people are freaking out over toilet paper and pasta.
Friends don’t send friends home drunk to play mafia.
Oh, Zeep, why did you think a comment about Hal here was going to be game relevant?
if your answer to the passive question was no then more often than not dusk is town
Sniping the thread to point out that "you should stop voting me because nobody else is yet" sounds pretty scummy
Despite the fact ive been too out of it to read it doesn't sound like much has changed in regards to how good a vote on oarfish is
refa did you miss dormio outright claiming he has mod confirmation nnr is town (and I'm pretty sure nnr more or less said it's vice versa as well)
...yeah where was that
define Statement89
{
At work and on my phone but I seriously don't know how to make it any more obvious. Given how many times I've dropped the hint, I might as well state it outright: (NekoNekoRex) is confirmed town to me.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement89)
}
// Yeah, posting manually like this on my phone is hell.
oh...can i just sheep dormio then tbh?? actually i'm very interested in seeing oarfish's reaction to this. :)
im serious. that post pinged me and i dont know why
How much time is left in the phase?
This is retarded but insanely towny and I haven't even read the post he quoted
Nice, the biggest wagon has 3 votes.
Maybe after the coronavirus forces everyone to stay home this game will pick up.
I think the likeliest lynch to happen is Shadoweh, because Shadoweh herself mentioned that she's just gonna keep voting Duskfall until one of them dies. I just wonder even in the face of adversity would she still hold onto that despite most of the thread disagreeing. Seems counter-productive, but is it scummy? I don't think she'd be locked into a Duskfall vote here, there's plenty of reason to vote elsewhere.I mean that's definitely something mafia do all the time, not every scumbag blows at the hint of resistance. That said it's not why I find her scummy since town can do it too.
Serela is a champ but I really regret suspecting Shadoweh and Niek because they post like once every Half Life 3 release and it's making updating my read on them awful.the correct solution is to run up people on wagons and see how that goes I guess. Sure, I'll bite
define Statement89
{
At work and on my phone but I seriously don't know how to make it any more obvious. Given how many times I've dropped the hint, I might as well state it outright: (NekoNekoRex) is confirmed town to me.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement89)
}
// Yeah, posting manually like this on my phone is hell.
I find this post odd. Conq's opinion based on an earlier post is that he's 100% fine with a Shadoweh lynch:I was asking zwerd since he voted during the initial shadoweh fake result and never took it off. So I was wondering if he had a reason for being there.
I'm not quite sure why Conq seems to have an issue with Zwerd on Shadoweh when he's fine voting Shadoweh. Maybe I missed something. But this seems like an inconsistancy.
Who said this?oarfish, in the post directly before mine
wow guys we really made 5 separate wagons huh. i don't think niek is getting anywhere so i'll probably shift my votesmh just as i got here.
smh just as i got here.
Also I saw niek made a post and no one seemed interested in interacting with them at all or trying to bring them into the game in case they actually are a lost townie. so niek if you would please respond and give thoughts, that would be nice. we don't bite!
im just moving to try and actually move the thread along since the votes have been stuck in roughly the same place since the last time i was in the thread. I'll happily move back to shadoweh if people are willing to move there instead of twiddling their fingers.
I mean that's definitely something mafia do all the time, not every scumbag blows at the hint of resistance. That said it's not why I find her scummy since town can do it too.
Are you saying you think she's town because of it?
god maj is lame because you're moving pressure off of one person to anotherplaying on a site with maj probably heavily affected my playstyle wrt how i approach lynches and pushing people. sometimes i wonder how i would play if i played on mostly plurality sites.
We do a lot of talking but I think a lot of it comes off as mandatory. People doing busywork because of a status quo.Good quote tbh. People should do less talking and more voting. ;) Chop chop.
My problem with lynching in people playing bad or not playing sets a bad precedent. Even worse when there's a possibility scum is setting the standard as well. Do I think that's happening? Unsure. I don't even think bad is proper here, I think there are many people that are being insufficient. I don't expect or even want gold standard play though. My problem I have is that I'm kinda rusty myself and I feel everyone is building upon expectations and it's just sorta crumbling down. ORfish and Dormio have spent the majority of their time hating one another and eventually Dormio just gave up and claimed PR. What I would hope to happen is everyone just drops their defenses or stops using expectation to dislike someone. I may be different due to not having previous experience with some of the players on here, but I do definitely feel like some moments you reads built upon this.
Last thing I remembered about Shadoweh when it came to you was saying she's normally better than this. Other characterizations I might've missed.I guess I wanted to talk more about this while it was fresh on my mind. You're not wrong that my read on her is based on how we've played together in the past. When we're both town we've tried to solve each other (for me, it's because I solve better when I have someone to bounce ideas off of that I can trust). The way she's stonewalled me here reminds me of games where she's been mafia and tried to stall while under suspicion (since I just reread urist fortress mafia last night, that's a good example of what I was thinking of.) But I guess it's possible she's just lost her flame for mafia and just plays like this now. I don't know.
I guess I wanted to talk more about this while it was fresh on my mind. You're not wrong that my read on her is based on how we've played together in the past. When we're both town we've tried to solve each other (for me, it's because I solve better when I have someone to bounce ideas off of that I can trust). The way she's stonewalled me here reminds me of games where she's been mafia and tried to stall while under suspicion (since I just reread urist fortress mafia last night, that's a good example of what I was thinking of.) But I guess it's possible she's just lost her flame for mafia and just plays like this now. I don't know.
Do you just not find her suspicion on Duskfall valid? Her complaints?I don't mine a suspicion on duskfall. I just think the angle she presented was disingenuous. You talked a bit about how people are building on expectations and I feel like this applies to what Shadoweh said was scummy about what duskfall did.
mafia/kilgamayan/neoforum/code/modules/players/living/o4rfish/scum
name = "O4rfish"
icon = 'icons/players/avatars.dm'
icon_state = "o4rfish"
alignment = SCUM
outside_contact = TRUE
has_night_kill = TRUE
players/living/o4rfish/scum/initialize()
initialize_scumteam()
var/datum/alignment/scum = new
add(src.scumteam)
get(players_in_scumteam)
QT.grant(src)
players/living/o4rfish/scum/proc/vote
if(!day)
return
check.votecount()
if(...)
votecount(player.with.votes)
if(votes > players/3)
vote.P
lurk(src)
votecount(!daytime.minutes =+5)
find(player.with.most.votes)
vote.P
else
players/living/o4rfish/scum/proc/argue(initialize)
players/living/o4rfish/scum/proc/argue
if(is.living.player && voting.me = TRUE)
generate.bad.argument
proc/vote(initialize)
vote.P
if(is.living.player || voting.me = TRUE)
generate.read
if(alignment = TOWN && read.alignment(!src) = TOWN)
generate.bad.argument
mislead.town
get.read(SCUM)
else
lurk(src)
tbh i've been avoiding rereading oarfish because i didnt want to read that entire back and forth between oarfish and dormio.
do you have a summary for the lazy? don't give me a post-by-post or anything because my mind will glaze over.
My head is at: everyone is scum.I think this quote is the most telling one of oarfish's constant state this game.
People who defend me are scum.
People who attack me are scum.
People who lurk are scum.
I personally wouldn't ever bother to read Dormio's strawberriescode for "stumbles"I give you +5 catness points for this post.
It doesn't even compile.
niek, what are your current thoughts on the game? can you talk a bit more about your serela vote?I'm still having serious trouble separating signal from noise. But I'll try.
I give you +5 catness points for this post.
I'm still having serious trouble separating signal from noise. But I'll try.
Now that I think about it there probably wasn't that much reason for scum to push hard for Abu lynch unless either Raikaria or Duskfall98 was scum. So the Serela vote was weak and it's probably better to focus on those two.
Raikaria seems town. I'm not feeling super strongly about Duskfall98's alignment but his flip could give us some idea regarding the Day 1 votes. Plus I do kind of want to carry out the late Abu's will!
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: Duskfall98
I'm going to believe the Dormio/NNR town confirmation for now.
Also, speaking of crumbs, wasn't Nuxl also posting cryptic things about his "jobs" early in the game? Probably nothing but I might just as well throw it out there.
We should probably declare who's going to be present at the deadline (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200312T1830&p0=851&font=cursive) to reduce the end of day chaos. I should be there.
Going to sleep now.
I don't intend to vote anyone else though so :shrug: I don't particularily care what other people do, I'm going to slam a Duskfall vote down every day and leave until people stop making excuses and lynch him. Or kill me for no reason I guess? Why would you think I don't have preferences when the only thing I posted is a readslist?I MEAN LOOK AT THIS. Shadoweh stated earlier today she's not even really reading the game, she's just gonna be voteparking dusk and leaving, and that's what she's proceeded to do. I would like to draw attention to the "readslist" she posted, which is the one piece of content she made today beyond saying "Duskfall not wanting Abu to shoot him is scummy, he should have taken the bullet so Abu could look town" (which abu still wouldn't have but I've said that 10 times)
"guys I have like zero opinion on half of the players in this game so i'm fine with lynching all of them, we good now?"
rest of the game:"oh sure yeah let's go lynch the town mason instead"
?sorry maybe it would have been clearer if I had put "shadoweh:" before the first line there
sorry maybe it would have been clearer if I had put "shadoweh:" before the first line there
I've seen Refa about three times now and it's almost like I'm townreading him for apathy.
You know what I meant. I feel like who you're referring to is really important here but I also don't think I should ask.
You know what I meant. I feel like who you're referring to is really important here but I also don't think I should ask.Oh did you mean the town masons?
Oh did you mean the town masons?
Dormio literally claimed inthread that he knows NNR is modconfirmed town and NNR all but confirmed the other side of it back (just under a thin layer of joking around) so I mean, we're well beyond the point of needing to dance around that anymore. Do you think a 3~4 person scumteam is just gonna 'not notice' that their posts happened? :VV
Also oh my god I don't know if I've ever successfully gotten so many people to change their votes before, other than onto myself.
Wanna clarify the Niek thing as it makes it seem like I'm still scumreading, but ATM she's probably null.
Actually kind of scared if Shadoweh flips scum though because like...I don't know who I should even be scumreading anymore. Conq and Serela's pushes don't feel like busses, Dormio and NNR are confirmed town, Raikaria Fabloo Zwerd Nuxl are all townreads, Duskfall I don't know but also I don't need to think about because Nuxl will sort that out for me kthnx, so there's like...Oarfish SB ActionDan left?? Actually, that sounds okay game solved I've figured it all out.
Actually kind of scared if Shadoweh flips scum though because like...I don't know who I should even be scumreading anymore. [snip], so there's like...Oarfish SB ActionDan left?? Actually, that sounds okay game solved I've figured it all out.OH HEY WE'RE PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME PLACE HERE. Just add Niek onto those last three and there you go.
well that is not what i thought was implied on your post
shadoweh flipping scum points to SB next
a lot of people are basically inherently agreeing with that poe which is either really good or ominous
I've never met you but for some reasons your posts are hilarious to me. In a good way.
OH HEY WE'RE PRETTY MUCH IN THE SAME PLACE HERE. Just add Niek onto those last three and there you go.
Is that your only reason for a switch? Mine wasn't factored because of that.
No, I've literally thought this in the back of my head. I was just waiting and seeing. I don't think the basis here for me is a direct connection. That is saved for someone else.
i dont think it's safe to say what i thought out loud but you can read into it probably
shadoweh flipping scum points to SB next
a lot of people are basically inherently agreeing with that poe which is either really good or ominous
Nod wink wink
I can see them being scum together but like...the only world in which I can see Scum!SB trying to save a frankly low effort scumbuddy is if his other...two? three? one? scumbuddies are even worse which uh...yeah that might be possible. But I don't want to think about this too much unless Shadoweh flips scum, wasted energy.i guess this is also indicative of oar's alignment as well
It's both.
it doesnt even look like serela noticed lmao
thats ok, was funny
y'all are goons
i can't believe we reached the point where serela is better at convincing people to vote a wagon than i am
:roll: Whatever. Conq, I'm coming to the sad conclusion you're actually scum here, you should know better then to think my town meta hasn't changed in years. I'm not the hyper poster I used to be, and I know you've watched some of my mafiascum games so you -know- I've been having trouble playing as town. Regardless my stances haven't changed, lynch Duskfall after I die or I'm going to scowl at you all.Shadoweh you know I'm weak to AtE, don't do this to me. My case on you isn't meta although i've used meta to explain why you doing nothing doesn't mean you're town. Where did you get the idea that I've watched your recent ms games? Team Mafia? You know I didn't read a word of that except the part where you got lynched in lylo.
I even went out of my way to claim in advance so you could hold me to non-action and y'all saw Conq try to reaction test me and fail miserably, if you really want to vote me after that you're not really thinking through this very hard.
Regardless my stances haven't changed, lynch Duskfall after I die or I'm going to scowl at you all.I don't actually know what your stances are. Why is Duskfall scum, is it really just the vig thing? Are your other stances just the unordered list you posted?
Conq you're literally sheeping the person you were voting earlier. WTF are you doing seriously?Shadoweh, you can't say im sheeping serela when I was the first person to push your wagon, what the fire truck.
Well. Raikaria is confirmed town,Hey did I miss something that would make you say this?
I DID NOT GET LYNCHED IN LYLO. I was lynched just BEFORE lylo. <_< We WON that game thanks. Did you really not, I'd been talking to you about my problems with confidence and fitting in hadn't I?I'm pretty sure you have mentioned 0 about this. Are you mixing me up with someone else?
Am I seriously imagining talking to you about mafia gamesYou mentioned you were playing and that you regretted everything but not much other than that. I'm sure it's in your team mafia qt somewhere.
oh dear how do i delete evidence of my senility
Yes its just the vig thing, but also its because he's not a presence I remembered anything in Day 1 from other then him wanted Abu to die for vigging him. I'm letting my gut take the wheel here. His day 2 posts aren't affecting me either emotionally and most other people have managed to.
My list isn't unordered, PLZ. Everyone at the top is town enough that you should never lynch them under any circumstances (Serela, Rai, Fabloo, you should honestly stop questioning any of them on the basis of them not being town and lynching any of them is a massive throw.) I said the same thing about YOU but you're definitely making me doubt myself. The whole silly gambit and wanting me to be your town partner seems to come from a good place though. I'm honestly not familiar enough with Zwerb and Nuxl to get them on the same gut level, but Zwerb seems earnest and Nuxl uh, is kind of driving the game and if he's really scum doing that I'd be impressed. Dormio was leaking his role results earlier but I wasn't going to -say- that :dankpuff:
I very obviously prefer lynching Duskfall. I stated that I thought Refa's tone was good, and NNR is obvi not on the list anymore. I wish I could just take Niek off the list but it would be because i think they're confused, not because i think they're town, I dunno how i feel about that honestly. That leaves my list narrowed to Duskfall/SB/Oarfish/Dan with Niek on the side, which, imo imo is a pretty good poe actually. If you're mad at me for not making scum cases uh, that's not really something I did very often, especially early with not a lot of evidence./quote]
See I asked you for this like yesterday, why are you just posting it now? By unordered I meant that an unjustified PoE list is pretty easy to throw out there. I can't believe you're making me doubt myself smh.
Yes its just the vig thing, but also its because he's not a presence I remembered anything in Day 1 from other then him wanted Abu to die for vigging him. I'm letting my gut take the wheel here. His day 2 posts aren't affecting me either emotionally and most other people have managed to.See I asked you for this like yesterday, why are you just posting it now? By unordered I meant that an unjustified PoE list is pretty easy to throw out there. I can't believe you're making me doubt myself smh.
My list isn't unordered, PLZ. Everyone at the top is town enough that you should never lynch them under any circumstances (Serela, Rai, Fabloo, you should honestly stop questioning any of them on the basis of them not being town and lynching any of them is a massive throw.) I said the same thing about YOU but you're definitely making me doubt myself. The whole silly gambit and wanting me to be your town partner seems to come from a good place though. I'm honestly not familiar enough with Zwerb and Nuxl to get them on the same gut level, but Zwerb seems earnest and Nuxl uh, is kind of driving the game and if he's really scum doing that I'd be impressed. Dormio was leaking his role results earlier but I wasn't going to -say- that :dankpuff:
I very obviously prefer lynching Duskfall. I stated that I thought Refa's tone was good, and NNR is obvi not on the list anymore. I wish I could just take Niek off the list but it would be because i think they're confused, not because i think they're town, I dunno how i feel about that honestly. That leaves my list narrowed to Duskfall/SB/Oarfish/Dan with Niek on the side, which, imo imo is a pretty good poe actually. If you're mad at me for not making scum cases uh, that's not really something I did very often, especially early with not a lot of evidence.
Uhm, I don't know, it just came to me while I was posting? I don't think this was more useful on a structural level then what I posted before, but I guess since I'm not exuding towniness people need 'reasons' more then I'm used to.shadoweh pls. it's useful because it's easier to catch you when you're bullstrawberriesting and if you're town it helps convince other people to follow you. that was my main issue with your duskfall vote, you were just phoning it in with no scrutiny and you were about to get away with it until a few hours ago.
Refa's current posts are pinging me tbh (voting someone and then going 'im worried they're going to flip scum 'is the weirdest thing I've ever seen? I would be estatic if someone I wasn't sure of actually flipped scum.) You do not sound like someone who -should- be voting me.
I give you +5 catness points for this post.
I'm still having serious trouble separating signal from noise. But I'll try.
Now that I think about it there probably wasn't that much reason for scum to push hard for Abu lynch unless either Raikaria or Duskfall98 was scum. So the Serela vote was weak and it's probably better to focus on those two.
Raikaria seems town. I'm not feeling super strongly about Duskfall98's alignment but his flip could give us some idea regarding the Day 1 votes. Plus I do kind of want to carry out the late Abu's will!
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: Duskfall98
I'm going to believe the Dormio/NNR town confirmation for now.
Also, speaking of crumbs, wasn't Nuxl also posting cryptic things about his "jobs" early in the game? Probably nothing but I might just as well throw it out there.
We should probably declare who's going to be present at the deadline (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200312T1830&p0=851&font=cursive) to reduce the end of day chaos. I should be there.
Going to sleep now.
Why are you townreading Zeep again?
im serious. that post pinged me and i dont know why
I'm not really sold? Zeep's D1 is unmemorable to me (weird with his postcount) but I haven't liked his D2 stuff. He's still around to post enough to remind us he's there but hasn't really done anything since he got a pass from most of the playerlist.
Duskfall, where would you be voting now if not Dan?
I'm townreading Zeep too (partially for that post you linked), but what the actual fire truck are his pushes? At best, Zeep has claimed to be suspicious of people and never followed up on them.
I mean you don't have to tunnel someone to push them, what defines a push is kinda vague to be fair. Do you think he has been too passive in regards to how he pushes?
If you could respond to Refa's case on you Tommy that'd be cool. I don't really get how you arrived at scum Shadoweh with your previous posts?
Refa I vote people for lots of reasons btw
Including: pressure, scumreading, reaction testing etc, My playstyle can probably be defined as using my vote as a weapon, that is what town should do because it gets you the best results. As a side noteI find it tedious to right out cases and don't enjoy it, I am more than able to right reasoning for every vote I just...dont. I don't think it really proves anything if I wrote a reasoning or not anyways, if someone asks me why I can answer it detail, I always have been able to always will. I've said before I enjoy interacting in thread rather than super long talking to myself posts that people aren't bothered to read but will make me look townier for being able to write a lot.
I feel like most people are aware that I can write posts with long detailed reasoning if I need to, I could make up that same reasoning if I need to also. I am more than capable of creating fake reasoning even if I was scum. So my question to you is, do you think my voting is scummy because i can't create reasons for who I vote, or do you just find it annoying there is no reasoning there?
My main reasoning for not hard pushing anyone today is this though: I have no strong scumreads, I am placing my vote where I think it will be best but there is no one I am super confident is scum which is why I am lynching in poe and trying to form a towncore. I think I have learned from experience that one of the worst things town can do is try force a read they simply don't have. Yes I could try tunnel shadoweh or nnr or whoever but I don't think they are obvscum or w/e, they are just more likely scum for not being in my towncore, because I believe those people are town.
Me saying OH MY GOD OBVSCUM LYNCH NOW doesn't help anyone, because truthfully, these players could be town. If I am not confindent in a read you won't find me fighting for it
Shadoweh I guess? She hasn't tried solve at all yet even when shes onlineWeird because I'm doing exactly what you've been proporting to be doing "trying to make towncore and lynch in poe", I'd think you'd identify with that. Unless you mean not trying to solve -you- which is true because I just think you're scum. I mean.. you're very clearly not reading the thread lmao
I wasn't being voted a lot when I posted yesterday afternoon. It just seems that way because Conqueror keeps poking me >:(
I assure you my posting times are completely random and based on whether the idea of posting in mafia makes me anxious enough to browse Reddit for another hour or not.
Weird because I'm doing exactly what you've been proporting to be doing "trying to make towncore and lynch in poe", I'd think you'd identify with that. Unless you mean not trying to solve -you- which is true because I just think you're scum. I mean.. you're very clearly not reading the thread lmao
A lot of what you're saying right now Dusk just seems convenient. I don't know what you're trying to imply by saying you don't like responding to cases or have ignored the people voting you, especially when you just responded to Refa. You might have not directly responded in the same way others have, but a lot of your content always seems to come either half-heartedly or suddenly because people are trying to understand your motives.
Being unsure is one thing, but nothing to me has suggested that you are unsure. It's just a weird feeling. Who are you trying to fool?
What's convenient? I always said I reply to things people ask me or when people interact with me, I have said that is my preferred way to play multiple times and I prefer talking to people in thread rather than talking to myself writing essays
ShadowehI suppose you could say it isn't something Duskfall did after, I think getting off of Abu when the push on him was so strong that Abu was the only wagon for awhile doesn't make me think he's less responsible, the original intent was scummy enough. But it's also not just what Duskfall did, rather if Dusk was town I think the push on Rai would have been stronger because scum would WANT an extra town to die. The mechanical situation hasn't changed.
Early on you voted Conq because he was playing to his scum meta (then townread him off of his reaction) and then voted Prims because he was pinged by your convo with Conq. You're townreading Dormio/Oarfish/Raikaria (Oarfish is interesting because you put him in the PoE later), and later vote Duskfall for the shoot thing. This reasoning is fair, but then he immediately reneges on it when he thinks he caught Raikaria in a scumslip and even later doesn't want to lynch Abu. This is why your case bothers me, because it feels like you stuck to the initial case (which was fine) but didn't really reevaluate it even when there was contradictory strawberries. Also even if Duskfall is scum there are more scum what would you do if Duskfall flipped scum?! Please at least look at the people on your PoE, if nothing else. I don't get why Oarfish is in your PoE (you said Serela was scum and he's there too but I assumed that was a joke??). I don't get the thought progression from thinking Oarfish was town to having him as a null read to being totally okay with voting him.
I don't really care what your preferred way to play is. I'm not sure why you think I do. If I were to break it down simply I don't think you're scumhunting.
I mean, I definitely take chance with someone who is ready to defend her scumread than someone who continues to have every excuse for not having one.
##Vote: Duskfall98
Sorry i don't have the answers you want to hear, but no one else does either and I will take standing by a long list of good townreads over someone tunneling a bad scumread all game and doing nothing else
Shadoweh has vote parked all game, claimed vt day 1 and not tried reconsider her read on me once thats not pro town
Why are you not trying to interact with her and the things she's said about you? Even in the case of her being wrong, you've yet to contest her.
I have before and she has ignored me because she doesn't want to reconsider literally
Before you say her case is bad or her vote is bad. Why. Why is it bad. Give it a reason. Use that grey matter between your ears. Fire up the neurons. Why would she be doing this as scum? Why would she be attacking you? Try not to use your own character when presenting your argument because for someone who apparently doesn't care what others think you spend a lot of time talking about yourself.
I don't remember this. It's fine though. Swallow your pride and just hash it out. Dormio and ORfish might've been reeling at each other but I at least got a read out of it. I can't read this stubborn war.
Including: pressure, scumreading, reaction testing etc, My playstyle can probably be defined as using my vote as a weapon, that is what town should do because it gets you the best results. As a side noteI find it tedious to right out cases and don't enjoy it, I am more than able to right reasoning for every vote I just...dont. I don't think it really proves anything if I wrote a reasoning or not anyways, if someone asks me why I can answer it detail, I always have been able to always will. I've said before I enjoy interacting in thread rather than super long talking to myself posts that people aren't bothered to read but will make me look townier for being able to write a lot.Hey, my playstyle is kinda similar actually wrt using my vote as a weapon. I push wagons on people and see how the dynamics develop on them. How exactly have you been acumhunting with your vote today?
Phone posting and stealing tkme ag work so juat gettinf thisnin real quick
Hey, my playstyle is kinda similar actually wrt using my vote as a weapon. I push wagons on people and see how the dynamics develop on them. How exactly have you been acumhunting with your vote today?
Duskfall, if you feel so strongly about Shadoweh, why haven't you pushed it harder today?
Conq, opinions on Niek's response to your pressure vote?it's...adequate i guess? Dont really have strong feelings about them but hoping they'll be easier to solve with more posts since it seems like they're not going to be a target for today
I literally voted someone else a page ago though :thonk:
also "dipped out" I go to work every day at this time >:(
Townbros rn are: me nuxl conq fabloo raik and oarfish
I think zwerd is likely town but not quite towncore
I think shadoweh and serela is never svs, maybe one of them is but I'm not sure I want to resolve it today it could just be a town slapfight. Shadoweh is playing really terrible and I hate it but part of me is like this is disappointing but also she could just not be reading he game, I'm not sure but if I had to pick I'd lynch weh rn.
That leaves like 6 other people:
Refa and SB I'm kinda looking at their interactions to try rule out them being scum partners I'll read back and see how they've interacted soon, because I think they should be interacting with each other most if they are town from familiarity (at least from refas perspective)
Nnr and Niek I'm ngl I don't have much on and historically they are the type of players I'm known for tunneling and mislynching so I'm gonna try leave that to other people to solve as much as possible
Dan has been underwhelming, I know he idles as either alignment but something about this game even when he's online doesn't have any town flair? Like usually his solving is better when he actually gets on even if he is inactive. So I kinda want to pressure here a bit, though admittedly I have had an awful read on him in the past also but feel like he must be looked at since he's a good player and shouldn't be let float under the radar.
I think I'm missing someone sorry bro I forget who you are
WAIT just realised it's dormio before hitting enter, sorry I still haven't read their posts will do if I have to alter in the game
You think I need more then that? I really don't, I always wondered what would happen if I ignored all the doubts I normally get and just pushed my original scumreads. That's probably not a satisfying answer to you but your posts never made me think you were town. For your sake going back and reading they're basically you sucking up to Nuxl and doing nothing, you know. If I go back a day this is the most interesting thing you've posted
The most interesting thing you said is that Refa and SB should be interacting, but in the next post you basically go 'oh refa and sb aren't talking, maybe im biased when i think they're town' and just don't touch it after? Everything else is you not being sure so why wouldn't you pursue the one lead you might have legitimately found?
TBH I shouldn't be the person answering if this is your town/scum meta, you've probably been forced to post enough that Nuxl (and maybe zwerb?) should give opinions r/n. Where are they. <_< Can we ping the mod to ping 4 people
Forgot to follow up on this earlier but NNR basically claimed mason earlier (with Dormio). How does this change your PoE?
You even QUOTED Niek mentioning it.
Abu didn't scumread me in the end btw he gave his final scumreads
I don't mine a suspicion on duskfall. I just think the angle she presented was disingenuous. You talked a bit about how people are building on expectations and I feel like this applies to what Shadoweh said was scummy about what duskfall did.
oh...can i just sheep dormio then tbh?? actually i'm very interested in seeing oarfish's reaction to this. :)
This is retarded but insanely towny and I haven't even read the post he quoted
Maybe after the coronavirus forces everyone to stay home this game will pick up.
Dormio is incorrect for today, those on him should move off
"guys I have like zero opinion on half of the players in this game so i'm fine with lynching all of them, we good now?"
rest of the game:"oh sure yeah let's go lynch the town mason instead"
Btw conq what made you go from this to voting me with shadoweh, without me ever posting?Hard to quote on mobile but look back further in my iso m8. I asked nuxl about you dropping off massively since d1.
you were hinting at it pretty obviously and you're not rawr/prims so doubt you'd pull this off as mafia. I mean, do you expect other people to grill you more on it?
Duskfall, what are your scumreads? Doesn't matter if you're not confident. Shadoweh you as well.
Hard to quote on mobile but look back further in my iso m8. I asked nuxl about you dropping off massively since d1.
Bad play doesn't make me scum Dusk, neither does *squints* claiming Vanilla Day 1 which you also brought up as a charge against me? Also lol Refa brought up why I said you're not reading. Nuxl said he thinks he has a tell on you but that kind of thing is still a maybe compared to seeing you when you're on the spot.
Rairai I'm gonna squish your head. But have you read my latest posts ie Conq dragging me out of bed and forcing me to exist, I think that's an unfair accusation after posting that stuff.
I'm here now.
Refa, did you iso Shadoweh and Duskfall but not me?
I don't think two is very likely because he'd have to expect someone to pick up on it and then townread him for it which is like...kind of a bad strategy, so juggling the other two options in my head.
Reason why I wasn't here was because I was out irl then I ran out of phone charge till I got home today and started posting btwi guess that sucks if this is true but it's really frustrating how you and shadoweh both only started posting once you had big wagons on you.
Is this your first game of mafia?Yes.
My second question is that have you read all the pages?Most of them. I've skimmed through some. And haven't got to the last 5 yet.
i still don't really know why you get to where you're at niek. i think after reading that i'm just confusedWell, that makes two of us! ^^;
i guess that sucks if this is true but it's really frustrating how you and shadoweh both only started posting once you had big wagons on you.
Likeliest scum rn is shadoweh?? Dan idling isn't great from experience with him and he hasn't been super impressive in thread when he has been here as far as I can see, I think the poe is getting smaller so I wouldn't be hugely surprised if one of refa + sb was scum at least or niek but I don't specifically have a scumread on them outside of poe and wouldn't want to vote them todayBut you don't think I'm scum and only voted me to consolidate wagons? You've definitely accused me of being a bad dumb idiot, which as an Idiot Maiden I fully agree with, but changing it into me being the most likely scum is a bit of a stretch. Good player is a terrible accusation, I think I've become quite terrible at forum mafia tbh. I'm happy though, I feel like I'm remembering how to post again.
There are some players who are incapable of faking townslips but dusk seems smart enough to exploit it if possible given mentioned deliberately getting himself bussed for towncred in another gametbh this works if you're buddies with him
Every time I have been in thread I have spamposted thoughi mean you spampost as mafia too. Was thinking more in terms of thread presence, pushing lynches in a way that isn't just driving by and plopping a vote down with minimum pressure, stuff like that.
But you don't think I'm scum and only voted me to consolidate wagons? You've definitely accused me of being a bad dumb idiot, which as an Idiot Maiden I fully agree with, but changing it into me being the most likely scum is a bit of a stretch. Good player is a terrible accusation, I think I've become quite terrible at forum mafia tbh. I'm happy though, I feel like I'm remembering how to post again.
Refa I think tomorrow has to basically be dedicated to sorting you and SB one way or another, so get ready for that.
Refa I think tomorrow has to basically be dedicated to sorting you and SB one way or another, so get ready for that.
it's...adequate i guess? Dont really have strong feelings about them but hoping they'll be easier to solve with more posts since it seems like they're not going to be a target for today
i mean you spampost as mafia too. Was thinking more in terms of thread presence, pushing lynches in a way that isn't just driving by and plopping a vote down with minimum pressure, stuff like that.
Mmk. Has your read settled on Shadoweh now? If it has, can you walk me through it?No and no *dabs*. I mean i guess my read on her has improved now that she's actually posting. Don't have anything firm though.
I hate defending myself. I'm going to hire Nuxl as my attorney. Serela can be my Maizono. Nothing can possibly go wrong with this setup.I don't wanna carry some useless strawberries, I wanna be the useless strawberries that gets carrried
I will not be voting duskfall today unless it is absolutely necessary
I will not be voting duskfall today unless it is absolutely necessary
[/quote
I think you're getting played personally. Especially after our conversation about him.
I think my thread presence is satisfactory tbh, idk about pushing lynches, being on dan I can see why you would think it is not great but I would like dan to actually play considering I have experience with himI've known dan longer than probably anyone here and voting him just for the sake of getting him to play would probably not get him to show up regardless if alignment, unless he suddenly started caring more about being active in mafia. Just feels like a safe vote with no repercussions to get through the day and then consolidate at the end given how you went about it.
I will not be voting duskfall today unless it is absolutely necessaryis that a firm read or a "i dont want to solve him today" read
I've known dan longer than probably anyone here and voting him just for the sake of getting him to play would probably not get him to show up regardless if alignment, unless he suddenly started caring more about being active in mafia. Just feels like a safe vote with no repercussions to get through the day and then consolidate at the end given how you went about it.
is that a firm read or a "i dont want to solve him today" read
Yeah and there's a sizable amount of people who seem to be preparing for pushes after an Abu village flip, but aren't townreading Abu
Namely raik shadoweh nnr
This is a weird post given its timing. I am reading Shadoweh's iso and she doesn't start talking about how Abu is probably town until after this post.
I'm pretty sure I didn't read that post :cate:
This is a weird post given its timing. I am reading Shadoweh's iso and she doesn't start talking about how Abu is probably town until after this post.
SB: wow dusk don't ignore refa
Dusk: shows sb his thoughts on what refa said
SB: oh well I don't really care about your self meta sorry
????
Why did you ask though
I'm townreading Zeep too (partially for that post you linked), but what the actual fire truck are his pushes? At best, Zeep has claimed to be suspicious of people and never followed up on them.
I don't really know what Conq's vote switches earlier were for now tbh? I kinda expected you to get more info out of them than that. Kinda bothered by it.are you talking to me?
are you talking to me?
oh no my wagon is so big i'd better claim
tell me if you've heard this one before but im V A N I L L A T O W N
omg dan and zwerb prodded each other in the scum qt hax
If I was scum then trying to push a duskfall lynch out of nowhere is literally the dumbest thing I could have done today, sometimes it offends me that people think my dumb town play could possibly be this bad as scum :meowsad:
Why not oarfish @dan?
I voted niek pretty much for consolidation because the wagons were stagnant and it looked like no one wanted to makr a move. Pretty sure i said this somewhere although it's possible it was implied in my convo witj fabloo or someone
that man is town. Or was D1, I admit I didn't read him D2, but quite literally if you picked any post of his D1 (aside from one specific one) they will all read town
do you really find them that weak? notlikethis
okay fine ill push duskfall the hardest i ever have in about 30 mins-an hour depends on how i feel
Both are l-2? Both wagons jumped up really quickly lmao
I want my delegates to go to Bernie.
well my vote is doing something for once
Curious why did you vote dusk when you called him town earlier in the phase
Dan you caught me, I was recruited into a cult n1
...i dont like either of these wagons, but im forced to choose here, no?
like, dusks defense of raikaria, upon rereading, was pretty towny... but undeniably, i think shadowehs posting has been quite genuine all game. her lowposting prior to her wagon is almost twicefold outweighed by the fact that she acts without motivation. i think that makes her a less likely s lynch than dusk. but i honestly would rather lynch neither here
So why are you lynching me
Dusk, you should probably claim.
did i not explain this? its less about which of you i think is more scummy and more about which of you is less townie
Then who do you want to lynch zeep
unsure. id need to re evaluate reads and decide based on whos the weakest link. give me a bit
Why would you prefer lynch a townread over no lynch or try push anyone else?
Too soon
Also Duskfall is Shinki, that makes him literally the devil
Why do you keep saying your play is dumb town? Do you not still think I am scum?I'm not 100% sure. I think you have a good chance of flipping scum right now but not good enough for me to preemptively brag or style on people for not voting you. What I'm saying is "votepark on one person that it didn't seem like anyone wants to lynch and refuse to be helpful" is such a terrible scumplan that it implies I'm really, really strawberriesty at scum which isn't true, my -scum- skills are actually still in peak form.
I am just getting more certain shadoweh is scum the longer this takes and more confident the people voting her are town, even if I die today though I think shadoweh will get lynched tomorrow
do you mind putting your argument for this in one post and ill read it and given enough consideration ill rethink my vote
Scummiest post of the game tbh.
Also despite ya know, barely being engaged in this game and not following basically everything, the only other doubt I have right now on which of shadoweh/duskfall should be lynched is that I like the composition on shadoweh's wagon at the moment. or at least, like 4/7 of them
I already know where to go next if you're town dusk.
Surprisingly, less sure if you're scum.
I already have can you read the game before lol voting the wagons
1) She uses reasons for why the abu lynch was bad and blames me despite me saying the same thing end of day yesterday and looking to switch when he became townier. She retroactively seems to claim credit for townreading abu when she didn't do anything all day and let what is likely top 3 wagons of town build, before coming in eod and white knighting.
2) She refuses to interact with me at all, which means she is unwilling to reconsider and take critique over her lynch, she doesn't want me to look townier and doesn't want me to demonstrate to her I am town because she doesn't want to switch her vote up
3) You are complaining about me not having a confident scumread which is different than scumhunting and solving the game. Shadoweh is not solving or scumhunting, she is just tunneling and she is not actually generating good content. I have, I have literally made a post yesterday commenting on every slot on the game that most people didn't even care about. I have created a solid townpool with good reasoning (I feel) that other people agree with so the reads I have given are on point, and they are not just to my benefit. I am townreading people who have pushed me too becaeuse I clearly have no agenda at all.
I am very clearly town, I have no scum agenda and it is very easy to say "omg first person to lynch town mislynch" which is dumb, I m getting blamed for my first vote of the game not being scum, that is the only "crime" or w/e I have committed, I have been insanely towny and just because I am not parading and trying to lead a lynch today because I have no super confident read I am said to not solve, it is just not true I have contributed more than vast majority of this game.
"Im just pretending to be retarded" is no more a viable argument for not being scum than not playing at allplease read literally anything else ive posted today instead of judging me based on the post on the current page please. I think its fine for town to do what I'm doing. It's just a terrible idea for people who only win if they survive and don't care who gets lynched.
Which votes don't you understand (i have my own anseer for this but i want to see yours)
Who are your 4? Do you not like the Duskfall wagon?
Nuxl has said he just townreads you more than the other wagons. Don't put words in his mouth.
If you actually read my conflict with shadoweh you'd easily see why im not voting her atm. I have a bistory of making uo with people if i think their posts improved, not sure why you have an issue eith that unless you want me to tunnel her some more?
I think shadoweh/conqueror are scum together if dusk is not and i will probably go hard on this.Now that's spicy.
Nuxl has said he just townreads you more than the other wagons. Don't put words in his mouth.
If you actually read my conflict with shadoweh you'd easily see why im not voting her atm. I have a bistory of making uo with people if i think their posts improved, not sure why you have an issue eith that unless you want me to tunnel her some more?
I don't think any of that is true at this point Dusk, I've been posting content, I'm engaging you, and you went from "Shadoweh is being dumb and not reading the game" to "Shadoweh has vote parked all game, claimed vt day 1 and not tried reconsider her read on me once thats not pro town" (none of these things are actually scummy, except maybe the voteparking but being stubborn to a fault is generally a TOWN trait) to SHADOWEH IS DEFINITELY SCUMMY. If I get lynched I'll be fascinated to see how much this wagon gets handwaved by you.
I still do not have dusk in my poewhat's your historical read rate on dusk
what's your historical read rate on dusk
what's your historical read rate on dusk
Duskfall don't delay your claim. I see what you're doing if town but i can't keep checking my phone and waiting.
I will not claim with more than 10 minutes to go
I get frozen on some of these my reads on him though but they're usually correct at the end
I misread him once in a semi open where he claimed PR while the other dude was ghosting the game if that helps
First game of mafia I ever played I SR'd him incorrectlyso basically you've never caught him aa scum isnwhat you're saying
Correctly TR matrix 14
Correctly TR danganronpa on SF
Correctly TR invitational
Snapvoted him correctly first 30 pages of shots noc as a scumread but tinfoiled too hard
Can't remember anything else I played with him in
I will not claim with more than 10 minutes to go
so basically you've never caught him aa scum isnwhat you're saying
##Vote:Duskfall
i don't find last second reveals to be good town play
Stop being anti-town for a hat trick please dusk.
It SHOULD have helped. Also he claimed early and you're refusing last minute, its definitely different. :V
I would consider not claiming in your position too tbh even if town but I'm kind of a dick
I think shadoweh/conqueror are scum together if dusk is not and i will probably go hard on this.
I actually don't know why most people on my wagon are voting me which is how you know it is a bad wagon and there is an agenda
Then why say you plan to claim at all?
When I spec Tommy when he's scum I do not town read him if that helpsHiw about when you're playing together?. Because speccing is def different from playing since he'll act differently qround you.
Kind of frozen because I'm not 100% confident at eod
Hiw about when you're playing together?. Because speccing is def different from playing since he'll act differently qround you.
I would like Duskfall to claim right now in case scum are trying to iron out a fakeclaim still.
is optimism townie? like in itself? curioushttps://i.imgur.com/BMePeye.png
##unvote
Claim.
ok i am vt
Abu is probably the worst and most anti town player ive seen, throwing a tantrum and giving up as town, so thats not really a good player to base d1 lynchee behavior from
...er, would you like to finish your thought?what thought, the 'let's vote niektory' followed by immediately finding something as I read over his posts that made me completely doubt wanting to vote niektory? because that was the end of that thought. I don't think i want to vote niektory anymore. my world has turned upside down and my town reads are lying to me
Serela why are you worried about Nuxl right now? I uh, don't share your paranoia aside from "maybe he could've been shot by now as universal townread" but I think scum would probably be more scared of Fabloo last night too.Um I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not talking about all of town's read being a sham I mean that excuse I personally used was bad. The NK wasn't even remotely near my train of thought, because uh, with claimed masons around why would they be shooting nuxl (fabloo was a great nk probably too so that's not weird in the slightest)
yes that is exactly what i just answered for
Um I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not talking about all of town's read being a sham I mean that excuse I personally used was bad. The NK wasn't even remotely near my train of thought, because uh, with claimed masons around why would they be shooting nuxl (fabloo was a great nk probably too so that's not weird in the slightest)
there was going to be but then 2) turned out to be unexpectedly stillborn, RIP 2)
You are correct I have not been scumhunting today
actually i guess i should still post the logic. scumslip could overrule towniness here if raik knows abu wagon is inevitable and just wants cred for itThere's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?
cough
hajimeyo
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
That's not a slip
I already know where to go next if you're town dusk.I am town time to go next before I flip
Surprisingly, less sure if you're scum.
ok i am vt
I was asked about this in private and it made me remember that convention differs from web sight to web sight and even from game to game on a given web sight so I should be clear about it in public: Scum do have daytalk.
I was the one who asked the daytalk question lmfao @dusk and also asked about where scumchat is.
i did not reread the thread and i will sooner than later, i feel bad if tommy is actually scum and i got skeeved the entire time but i don't feel like he's been scummier based on what i'm used to on smogon. i'll do my homework though as much as i don't want to do it
also my last 451 game me and (action)dan idled as scum for like d2-d4 and still won hahaha but i dont know if that's an accurate representation of how he plays considering more recent games i looked atsobbing, so true
I'll be gone for a while but...so wait
I said one of Shadoweh and Conq were probably scum, so that's where I'm starting
##Vote: Conqueror
WOW I totally missed that sorry. Having read it now, I dunno I'm not really seeing these things as being as bad as you do. I do need to go over duskfall tho'.
I was townreading Duskfall initially because I thought their reaction to being threatened to be vig was most likely a town PR (because scum would just roleblock vig!Abu probably and it didn't feel like VT on). Then the Masons claimed and I was less sure, and then they claimed Vanilla. I'm really confused on like, how they didn't claim to be scumreading Shadoweh when they were effectively listing reasons to scumread her at phase end. I wanna see what they think of their wagon today now that Shadoweh has flipped town because I'm not happy.
I thought about this overnight and I want to lynch in hard lurkers today (Dan/Niek) because their slots are going to be a huge question mark going forwards and I don't think we'll be able to solve them with roles considering we already have vig/masons.
##Vote: ActionDan
I think their end of phase yesterday was really weird. Their D1 was actually alright but it feels like he just flipped a switch and forgot all about it? His entire progression D1 seemed to imply they were good with lynching Shadoweh and Duskfall was null, but then they went and voted for Duskfall yesterday? I don't know how much this means since Shadoweh flipped town and Duskfall is the unknown but I can't wrap my head around it. Dan, what changed during D2 to make you want to vote for Duskfall instead of Shadoweh? I know you said the read changed but like... why? It's so out of nowhere.
I think that Niek is getting too much of a free pass for being a newbie, and nobody is talking about it despite nobody townreading him. The way the wagon built and dissolved so suddenly yesterday was kinda spooky and he feels like he's playing really safe. They say its a personality thing but it kinda reminds me of my first scumgame where I was talking a lot about game mechanic stuff to feel helpful and struggled to formulate fake reads.
@Conqueror, Duskfall: Why are you so upset? It's Day 3. I assume both of you have played enough games to realise that two mislynches is never the end of the world - and three vanilla town in the graveyard isn't too terrible - so what's going on? Give me a sort of grumpiness check - Conq I assume you're gonna write a post like you said, but the ??? here still stands.Short answer: because I'm not dead and the powers that be have decided that I have to play more of this strawberriesty game. i realized that i dont actually want to play mafia, i just want to spec or sub in late game and be right because my reads dont have to be tainted by "are people acting differently around me to make themselves harder to read based on the stuff ive said in game?"
Short answer: because I'm not dead and the powers that be have decided that I have to play more of this strawberriesty game. i realized that i dont actually want to play mafia, i just want to spec or sub in late game and be right because my reads dont have to be tainted by "are people acting differently around me to make themselves harder to read based on the stuff ive said in game?"
Smartbomb there's a lot of reasons why I'm tilted, getting wagoned by shadoweh who literally played anti town all game nas pretty much thunderdomed me for no reason, when I gave her literally every chance but she refused to reconsider me once I some of them.
Another one is the fact we have very little info considering the only wagons to have ever really been town (assuming raik is town) so scum haven't had to do anything, we have no real wagon info.
A third is the fact my reads have been wrong.
A fourth is that I keep tinfoiling nuxl and he has felt kinds scummy but he's pretty much modcleared.
A fifth is that there's no one I've really enjoyed solving with this game to be honest, and despite me believing to have formed a solid enough towncore, it's not getting reflected back and I'm not getting enough towncred, genuinely have no idea why I've ever been considered. Target on a real note.
Sixth: you mention that I should be used to games like this where it's not the end of the world. Yeah but town has no direction and no one seems to have good confident reads right now and whenever that happens it usually means scum is way ahead and that's making me tibfoil but tinfoiling is bad and against my pihlosophy
This is accurate and I didn't realise till now
Hot take dormio is potentially distancing Dan
i have realized a pattern
a very simple, but possibly important pattern
we have not focused on eod vote counts/counterwagons.
i have realized a pattern
a very simple, but possibly important pattern
we have not focused on eod vote counts/counterwagons.
this is mostly for me honestly. my 2nd most reliable method behind poe is find counterwagon > kill counterwagon > win game
What
Sorry conqy boy you are 0/3very funny. but i'll bite because i wanted to ask you about your eod anyway since what you were saying didn't seem to make sense with what you were supposedly thinking at the time. or at the very least, it felt off.
Raik because me claiming it does not help town at all in your decision, knowing im vt will not change a lynchnear the end of the day you said you were increasingly sure shadoweh was mafia, that her team was hard pushing you, and that you were going to be lynched for it. so in other words you were about to be dead and flipped anyway so scum knowing you were not pr would have been a moot point. the people your claim would have helped most were town who were deciding between the wagons. what was the point of delaying? the vt claim actually made me want to lynch you more at the time because in retrospect it looked like you were baiting people to think you were a pr and hammer the shadoweh wagon to "prevent you from claiming". that or stalling and trying to think of a claim before deciding not to go with one. my thoughts are pretty muddled on this so i wanted to hear it from you first.
All it does is inform scum that I am not pr so my claim was anti town but I was forced to do it
Who did smartbomb sub in for his intro was towny it was refa right?
how do you think vigilante games on mu go
Poorly?
I could direct this question specifically at (ActionDan) and it wouldn't matter because (ActionDan) would probably literally never see it. Just like how (ActionDan) probably hasn't bothered to even look at 95% of the posts in this thread.it's funny how this is probably correct regardless of dan's alignment. sometimes i wish motk had a way you could ping people in thread and they could get a notification.
Everyone - Are we at the stage of the game to lynch lurkers? Why/why not?1.Yes. D1 it's too early to actually identify someone as a lurker, d2 they have to be doing it -really- audaciously (and we really needed a more infoful lynch then a lazy lurker lynch to hopefully get more to work with) but d3 you're at the point where you kinda can't safely wait longer. I mean, do you want to be potentially forced to do your lurker lynch in lylo?
Serela - What is Conq's scum meta?
End of Day 1 Vote Count
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (9): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, sb, Shadoweh, AbuHumaid
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (4): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, AbuHumaid, zwerdjib, Shadoweh, Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb, Niektory, Xinnidy
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (1): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan, zwerdjib, Conqueror, sb, Refa, O4rfish
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (1): Serela, Prims, NekoNekoRex
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (0): Nuxl, Raikaria, AbuHumaid, Shadoweh
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): zwerdjib, Niektory, O4rfish, zwerdjib
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (0): Raikaria, Shadoweh
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Raikaria, Dormio Ergo Sum
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Shadoweh
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (0): Xinnidy
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (0): AbuHumaid, Dormio Ergo Sum, O4rfish, Refa, NekoNekoRex
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0): Prims, O4rfish, AbuHumaid, NekoNekoRex
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (1): Nuxl
End of Day 2 Vote Count
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (8): Conqueror, NekoNekoRex, zwerdjib, Serela, Conqueror, Duskfall98, Nuxl, Fabloo, Refa, Conqueror, Duskfall98, Raikaria, O4rfish, zwerdjib, Fabloo
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (6): Shadoweh, zwerdjib, Niektory, Conqueror, Shadoweh, Fabloo, ActionDan, zwerdjib, NekoNekoRex, sb
O4rfish (Rumia) (1): NekoNekoRex, sb, Dormio Ergo Sum, NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (0): O4rfish, Raikaria
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0): Duskfall98
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0): Fabloo, Nuxl, Conqueror
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Refa, Conqueror, Niektory
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Fabloo
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (0): NekoNekoRex, NekoNekoRex, O4rfish
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Fabloo (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (0):
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0):
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): sb
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0):
Not voting (0): No one!
Conq why are you being so safe with #223. #224 Then make it? Votes mean a lot, and if I'm going from the perspective of what you said earlier "trying to take it easier this game" then I don't get hesitance here. It should be vote Serela no questions asked. Why'd you hesitate? Are you worried about being wrong despite your previous claim in quotations? #231 from Raikara: Just came back from the Mafia Hideout and forgot I needed to post. Not a true read just me having fun..unless? Honest not wowed by Rai here. #239 SB remains in the range of agreable. This seems like a common trope of this game, something I may have to break down later for my own entertainment. #244 Self-deprecation from Refa; townie look. Town don't actually like playing Mafia, they just want all of the benefits that come with it. Those 5 pages I dialed into felt more like 3 worth of content.
P6 I've seen shadoweh post but I can't remember them. Doesn't make them bad just doesn't really stand out either way. Skimming Nuxl/Zwerd now, they seem to fill up gaps between the other players. Still dislike Zwerd feel good tonally about Nuxl. I preemptively townread Dormio as of #277. I preemptively want to townread Sir Prims for his #281 but his style seems more refined. If Nuxl is someone who isn't self-aware, then Prims would be someone who is so self-aware that it can become hubris. These are all reads based on now instead of before. I won't make a huge point about this for now. #283 Serela's personality sticks out more than what they're saying. I can't read it right now will probably PoE. #286 noting that ORfish has a soapbox he pulls out from his closet. #294 I like the response from Nuxl here, had the same thought actually. Don't townread Serela.
god my touhou char is so cute
vote duskfall98
I have an avi is this a real vote
put on a damn avi please
Lynching lurkers seems like the low effort scum move to do here but it's also not a bad idea given the lack of better choices to Actually Scumread.
I still haven't forgotten my scumread on Duskfall and I really don't feel like either of the flips from d2 has changed that?
OK this is the good Serela then. Sry for doubting you bae (handheart)
Raik hate to break it to you but all end of day wagons are town if you are town so everyone ahs been voting town
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
ugghhhhh today was projected to be a fairly slow day at work and instead it was so madhouse busy that I didn't have any time to mafia plus I'm now exhausted and have a headache
I just finished catching up with a basic read of the new pages, this is not the comprehensive post i wanted to make but I really just don't feel good/have any real energy
*i don't like abu's overall nonpresence (Remember when I said I was waiting to see how some people followed up later? he didn't follow through)
*not feeling great about refa's 'well i'm ok with this' very sheepy jump onto the growing raikaria wagon but the continued Refa presence after made it somewhat better (but still!!)
*shadoweh is surprisingly nonpresent, I thought she was OK at first but now the game is -actually- rolling and she's just... not, which I do not find to be normal
*o4rfish is being o4rfish
I just iso'd Abu which took approximately 20 seconds. It really doesn't look good. There's a lot of "ok i'll go read now' and then not doing it, or making a single comment and then disappearing again until the next time he says he'll do something and then doesn't do it. He's -not even voting anyone-. His "read, this time for real' resulted in one comment on not liking NNR's nuxl vote, and then, HE MADE SEVERAL POSTS AFTER THAT, that purely consist of answering fluffy questions aimed in his direction and doing nothing else. It makes him look like he's contributing but he's really just not?
Literally the only thing I could imagine to argue him as lazy!town is that scum would hopefully have the sense of mind to at least votedrop someone before disappearing and trying to coast, while answering a few questions to at least -look- like they're contributing and not just lurking.
##Unvote:Raikaria
##Vote:Abu
i know i should be revaluating raikaria and going a little more indepth on people other than abu but my brain is absolutely dead right now, i need to go to bed instead
Raikaria voting your own slot when you have a big wagon that's likely to be lynched who isn't you is basically never a good idea. You're assuming Abu is totally telling the truth when he could EASILY BE LYING, meanwhile, from your perspective, you are -modconfirmed town- (or scum who would at least be attempting to survive)
Oh wait. Shadoweh isn't softconfirmed scum anymore. I actually have to vote her again.
##Vote Shadoweh
To rephrase my previous post:if we lurker lynch today I'm 100% cool with it but I'd much rather Dan than niektory at present
I dipped my toes into Nuxl's d1, his 540 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1345#msg1345) looks really good but I don't get that feeling much afterwards and as said his D2 was rather lackluster. I've townread everyone except the lurkers at some point so no more "i think this one thing they did was pretty town" if the rest looks not as much
sobbing, so true
oh hey nuxl is posting, reading
...oh yes, that was what happened. yes that's a thing isn't it. :T I guess I did have a good reason to drunkread nuxl as town
##Vote ActionDan
Conq the power role makes me look bad after I claim, I agree. Was I trying to look like rp? Yes, for two reasons:
It makes me less likely to get lynched, this is pro town not just pro survivability. I know shaodweh is not town pr because she has claimed by, and I believe she is mafia. Of course it is pro town to have her lynched over me, who I know is town. My scum read getting lynched is always better than me getting lynched, that's a fact.
Claiming VT does not help town make its decision in a way that is pro it's wincon. This is because I am not pr. Deciding between two vts doesn't help town, because you are both vt it doesn't change the decision. So me claoming does not effect the lynch. I agree that if I was lr or shadoweh was it would make sense to claim as you weigh up who gets to survive. My claiming here gave town no real advantage, and I knew this. You only seem to believe it does help town because you didn't already know my role.
An unknown claim can potentially effect a lynch, because it has the potential to be pr. But from my perspective there is no such potential, so claiming does not help the decision at all, and I am aware it won't help the decision. So my claiming is never pro town, I know this. You only believe it could potentially be pro town because you don't know the claim. Sorry if I'm repeating btw.
But because of this not being pro town, it only really helps scum, who are pr hunting, by telling them I am not what they are looking for.
I'm just thought posting right now.
I'm looking at raikaria's votals thing and it made me remember zwerdbeasgteaswgg also still exists and I'm pretty sure he has also been terminally fire trucking useless all game
Raikaria:
I'd like to point out re:Prims voted Serela and got nk'd, closer to the end of D1 Prims said something very close to "Oh, no, this is actually town Serela, I'm sorry for ever doubting you <3"
So, no, I would not have nightkilled prims for suspecting me XD
Why do people ask stuff then leave this is why we are losing
>Hello sir let me have a conversation to determine your alignment, detailed answer me ln this topic please
-ok sure
>50 million years later oh sorry yeah missed that thanks for wasting your time
I really don't remember seeing much scummy from Nuxl but it's so easy to ignore him in the light of the much more scummy people running aroundIt's probably not the MOST infallible modclear but AFAIK most people are this point are soft-townclearing nuxl for claiming the role of "person who asked kilga if scum had daytalk and then kilga posted it publically"
Except Abu really was Town Vig. In hindslight this plea for me to basically go back to Abu looks somewhat bad. Because of course, scum would want us to kill a Vig over VT.3.Dude you're arguing that town should commit suicide to allow a super scummy person to not get lynched over P O S S I B L Y being a PR? Sure, now when he's FLIPPED as a PR it might 'sound' worse, but town should never be doing this unless maybe there's VERY strong evidence to support it's true, and if that was actually the case there's no way the lynch would be happening anymore -ANYWAY- so that's still a null situation.
This is the justification for a vote that Serela literally sits on ALL DAY.Holy strawberries you framed this so insanely bad it almost makes me want to retract a townread on you. This is such a gross misrepresentation of my interactions with Shadoweh I can't comprehend how you actually just said this out loud.
Also would like to take this moment to point out km the one who caught that nuxl was modspewwed and specifically asked thread to reveal who was modspewed, before I even knew who I was clearing
anyone could have done that tho
Anyone could catch the whole scum team day 1 guess it's not towny
im just saying in a vacuum what you did isnt inherently a town move
Serela I had a longer poet but I'll summarise, raik shows your solving has been pretty weak most of the game and your votes don't really have much confidence behind them and are non committal. I don't mind people pressuring with a vote but I think it has to develop and lead someone just sitting on a lurker and going nowhere isn't a good look.wh
like, what, I screamed and yelled when the shadoweh wagon dissolved and got it to flame back up because I Really Really wanted her lynched, how in the world is that 'noncommittal'
Although it's really not earning you much townie points when you say 'I screamed and really really wanted the townie lynched.'Dusk specifically said he liked voting me because I looked 'noncommittal' about my votes is the point here ok :C
Dusk specifically said he liked voting me because I looked 'noncommittal' about my votes is the point here ok :C
Yes giving a random person a clear isn't towny sorry
Jesus Christ this game
So, six players are dead and we haven't found any scum yet. This indicates scum are good players, right?
My lynch priorities are:
sb
Dormio
Shadoweh
I'm not good enough to write a convincing case right now against sb though. So I'll go with this
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
I wasn't saying "you should stop voting me"
I was saying "you should reconsider how solid your case is"
Your case on me d2: restate your previous case, and then
I disagree with the first part, obviously. For the second part, my read of Conq at that time was that he was less likely to be scum than anyone else, unless Shadoweh was letting him bus her.
My wagon:
sb - probably scum
Dormio - more likely scum than not scum
NNR - more likely town than not town
Dormio is first deciding who to go after, then casing them. This in itself isn't scummy, but it looks bad if that's the only way you pick up suspects. I don't expect him to have a higher level of activity, but I do expect him to read the game rather than just isos.
Due to his statements, if Dormio is town then NNR is almost certainly town, and if Dormio is scum then NNR might still be town.
Conq is a pretty good player. I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake. Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit.
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid. But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid.
This game looks like it is going according to plan for scum. I have some ideas as to how to shake things up, but I'm not sure how many players would agree to do that.Conventional methods have failed. It is in these trying times that we need to use our trump card: Touhou Canon Analysis.
I'm going to play differently for the rest of the game.I hope the speeches will continue though!
@Niektory: You uh, weren't really questioned about your mad voteswitch onto Abu, so I'll throw it out now. Like, just walk me through what you were thinking around there.It seemed like it would be either Abu or Raikaria at that point and from a cursory glance (I was behind on Day 1 reading) Abu seemed more suspicious. I will not give you a well thought out reason because there wasn't one.
serela still basically only has one case which is definitely in scum!serela range but on balance i think the way shadoweh is approaching the game is scummier. maybe i'll trust my initial gut read on serela.
oh right, oarfish i think i saw you mention something about me/serela/shadoweh's reads on each other but it's not like we have rock solid accuracy on each other. what's your current read on me/serela/shadoweh?
I think the chance of an O4rfish - Conq scumteam is actually good enough that:
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: O4rfish
okay, now my question is how does this change your read on serela? or where does he fit into here?
Now excuse me going to bed. Hopefully I've at least done enough to stoke discussion and some attempts at scumhunting for me to read after work tomorrow.
Serela read is still bad. However, I think we get more information from an O4rfish flip than a Serela flip.
i mean, ill need you to actually explain the link, so ill hold off for now
Did you not see me point out O4rfish slipping in Conq townreads, and Conq's strange behavior towards O4rfish [Signs he's not reading O4rfish's posts; asking O4rfish to post his opinion on him, and then not chasing it up when O4rfish doesn't respond, when he chases up other people]
Strange interactions out of the norm for Conq. They just make me suspicious. By all means, you don't need to agree with what's making me suspicious. But I did explain it.
i... i meant the link between them and serela
Zwerd I'm looking over your posts and you've literally never mentioned anything about my alignment before, do you have likeclarification:I didn't read back into actual day one but I don't think that should be terribly relevant for the state at hand, esp. since you had a reads list d2
anything to add to your vote here???
clarification:I didn't read back into actual day one but I don't think that should be terribly relevant for the state at hand, esp. since you had a reads list d2
raikarias case against you is far more solid than his oar-conq one imho. i feel like this went without saying
Conq the power role makes me look bad after I claim, I agree. Was I trying to look like rp? Yes, for two reasons:Going to digest this for a bit because I think I just fundamentally disagree and am having trouble wrapping my head around your state pov.
It makes me less likely to get lynched, this is pro town not just pro survivability. I know shaodweh is not town pr because she has claimed by, and I believe she is mafia. Of course it is pro town to have her lynched over me, who I know is town. My scum read getting lynched is always better than me getting lynched, that's a fact.
Claiming VT does not help town make its decision in a way that is pro it's wincon. This is because I am not pr. Deciding between two vts doesn't help town, because you are both vt it doesn't change the decision. So me claoming does not effect the lynch. I agree that if I was lr or shadoweh was it would make sense to claim as you weigh up who gets to survive. My claiming here gave town no real advantage, and I knew this. You only seem to believe it does help town because you didn't already know my role.
An unknown claim can potentially effect a lynch, because it has the potential to be pr. But from my perspective there is no such potential, so claiming does not help the decision at all, and I am aware it won't help the decision. So my claiming is never pro town, I know this. You only believe it could potentially be pro town because you don't know the claim. Sorry if I'm repeating btw.
But because of this not being pro town, it only really helps scum, who are pr hunting, by telling them I am not what they are looking for.
Strange, I disagree completely.What do you like about it? I'm about to respond to it but I'm curious because it's complete gash.
I just think on balance staring at a sticky vote without really paying attention to any of the words surrounding it is much worse than identifying an inconsistent interaction, lack of really pushing anywhere, etc.Cutting myself but I think all his posts today suck.
I'm not sure why you think otherwise unless you're assuming raikaria is really hardpushing the you-Oar world.
yeah like
it's good to at least STATE what you agree with when you decide to just sheep someone else on a person you have no stated opinion on :T so you can be... y'know... held to something? anything?
Yes; but there's people who have voted almost nothing but town. Throughout the entire day.
Anyway; I went back to look at Serela and one thing that immediately concerned me was his votes.
Serela's first 'real' vote. Goes onto me with absolutely no reason. I'm softconfirmed townie.
Serela proceeds to sit on this for quite a while. From March 6th to March 8th.
Serela's Abu vote [which; by the way; was one of the earlier ones] boils down to 'He's not doing much'; which at this point it could be applied to a lot of people. Including me. Who he unvoted from, and even acknowledges should be re-evaluated.
Except Abu really was Town Vig. In hindslight this plea for me to basically go back to Abu looks somewhat bad. Because of course, scum would want us to kill a Vig over VT.
This is the justification for a vote that Serela literally sits on ALL DAY.
Notably Serela's only gone after low-activity lynches. And now he's just jumped on ActionDan too.
D3 starts and Serela seems to be pushing immediately for an easy lurkerlynch.
Not really scumhunting. Just easy wagons on low-activity townies. No real cases either. I don't like this.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
So like, keep that in perspective, then. What exactly should town!Serela be doing here?
1: Serela was involved in both mislynches. Serela was also one of the first on Shadoweh's wagon and quite big in the lynch of Abu.1, 2, 3, and 4: All of these points can be summarized by "these people were voting town on a lynch." But what does that actually mean? You pointed out the D1 voters on Abu and saying they're scummy for voting there? but if you're town you should be looking at votes on you too. This is actually a pretty massive red flag, possible perspective slip?
2: O4rfish was also involved in both mislynches.
3: While Conqueror was not on Shadoweh's final wagon, he flipped on and off her three times and generally was pushing heavily on Shadoweh throughout Day 2. He was also one of the earlier people on Shadoweh's counterwagon. Perhaps scum letting town ride the wagon he pushed to start with?
4: Refa; Duskfall and zwej have all ended days on Town or Likely Town wagons.
5: Most people who have voted O4rfish are Town or Semi-Confirmed town.
6: It's worth noting Prims voted Serela during Day 1. He then died. It's also worth noting that in Fabloo's Readonomicon (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1802#msg1802) he states 'Do not Townread Serela'.
7: I decided to basically ctrl+f Serela in Fabloo's posts; it's mostly saying he struggles to read Serela; to the point he struggles to even really tell who Serela wants lynched.
8: However, Fabloo does propose a Conq+Shadoweh team, so maybe Conq scum opinion was why?
---
I'm actually starting to suspect a Conq+Serela scumteam. I'm gonna go and readread Serela in particular [And any interactions with Conq]. I had suspicions on him D1; but during D2 I lost them a bit. But now they're rising again. The fact Prims randomly died D1 after being one of the few to vote Serela; and Serela being on both mislynches is quite suspicious in of itself. Then there's Fabloo pointing out a suspicious moment where Conq did not vote for Serela.
But trying to put things Rai has said on a sliding scale instead of rolling it all into "posts bad", his oarfish read is better than his Serela read. No?i can't say it's better because all interaction reads on me are naturally going to be wrong given im town. you could pick out a number of people randomly and make interaction reads on them.
Maybe you should consider that? Cause what you're describing a theoretical mafia!Serela doing here (which afaict is not all what he's doing right now and you seem to be overly generalising for the sake of your push) is exactly what I'm seeing out of a town!Serela. Is town not allowed to defend themselves?
I find it interesting his D2 Duskfall vote seems to be mostly 'calling his bluff'. Interestingly this is shortly after chastising Shadoweh for a Duskfall vote.
I do find it interesting Conq asks O4rfish for opinions specifically on himself; Serela and Shadoweh. Shadoweh is the main wagon at this point so fair enough. Serela is the counterwagon that isn't O4rfish himself; so also fair. But why is Conq asking about O4rfish's read on himself? This isn't a thing Conq does much. It just gives me a weird feeling.this is an outright misrep and you're pulling this out of your ass. the post i was asking about was this:
What's weirder is O4rfish only just stated his opinion on Conq in #1212 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2093#msg2093) and Conq asks O4rfish for it in #1233 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2119#msg2119). O4rfish dosen't answer this question, and Conq has had a pattern this game of pushing people to answer his questions and getting annoyed when they are not answered. He's done so with me.
And yet; this time; he asks O4rfish a question he just answered [Suggesting he's not actually reading O4rfish?] and dosen't keep pushing O4rfish to answer it.
Conq and Shadoweh and Serela have played many games with each other. If they have a strong read, it's probably accurate. If they're town, they'll tell the truth about having a strong read. However, if they're scum, they could choose between a true read for false reasons, or a false read for false reasons.you're right that I forgot to follow up on it but it's because i got caught up in trying to read shadoweh and duskfall and oarfish just completely fell off my radar at that point.
not when theyre about 70% of his posts. maybe more. i didnt count, but i read to start of day.wdym by doing more, like what?
theyre okay defenses, i was just hoping he would be doing more
and youre free to apply this standard to me, go right ahead
but that doesnt make me less right
Its also amazingly tilting that nuxl is modspewed town but completely in his scum metaTell me more about nuxl's scum meta and how he's in it. Gimme his town meta too.
wdym by doing more, like what?
i dont get either your or dusk's votes
i can't say it's better because all interaction reads on me are naturally going to be wrong given im town. you could pick out a number of people randomly and make interaction reads on them.
his serela read is outright bad too because he misreps serela's case on shadoweh. honestly i'd purge everyone voting serela who is sheeping raik's case because i dont see what's sheepworthy about this. you could cherrypick almost anyone's votes the way raik did.
Conqueror - given Shadoweh was Town, what views or arguments of hers should be reused? What from her do you still disagree with? Same question in re Prims, Fabloowas chewing on this question. i know people say "listen to dead townies" but dead townies are also often wrong and they're not always killed for their reads. i dislike reusing arguments because it's fairly easy for mafia to kill a good town player who's wrong about some reads and then take only the arguments that benefit them.
giving thoughts on this current argumenti don't like any of raikaria's cases? i mean the main arguments going on are voting serela which i've kind of responded to
giving a read on someone other than dangave you a whole post of my reads for the game my dude, granted i'm supposed to properly reread conq still I guess. The reads have more elaboration in d2 but after the upheaval and the reconsidering I'd say these town reads are not going anywhere today (I have to admit that PoE alone makes it look like there's UNFORTUNATELY likely to be a scum in them though u g h but that's something to worry about MULTIPLE days from now, i have literally 0 interest in lynching there today even if that includes Rai who I'm incapable of agreeing with atm)
actively advocating a dan vote, like he did with shadoweh d2it's very early in the day and it's a lurker lynch, it's important to have discussion on the other players even if we do end up lynching Dan. And I'm not going to dwell on the topic because it's uncouth but a modkill is uh, possible *cough*
being present more in generali have several posts on every page of d3 and have responded to most of what's occurred today (directly related to myself or otherwise) so honestly I can't tell where you're coming from here
i don't like any of raikaria's cases? i mean the main arguments going on are voting serela which i've kind of responded to
gave you a whole post of my reads for the game my dude, granted i'm supposed to properly reread conq still I guess. The reads have more elaboration in d2 but after the upheaval and the reconsidering I'd say these town reads are not going anywhere today (I have to admit that PoE alone makes it look like there's UNFORTUNATELY likely to be a scum in them though u g h but that's something to worry about MULTIPLE days from now, i have literally 0 interest in lynching there today even if that includes Rai who I'm incapable of agreeing with atm)
it's very early in the day and it's a lurker lynch, it's important to have discussion on the other players even if we do end up lynching Dan. And I'm not going to dwell on the topic because it's uncouth but a modkill is uh, possible *cough*
i have several posts on every page of d3 and have responded to most of what's occurred today (directly related to myself or otherwise) so honestly I can't tell where you're coming from here
HI S-oh no he's drunk
@zwerdjib I think 70% is surprisingly harsh, and I've pointed out now that you don't really have a standard of "more". Like what's your standard of "more" here? Playing like you? Cause he's kinda surpassed that here regardless of his alignment.
##Vote: sb
@zwerdjib: :squint: Did you just say the p-word? I feel like you missed the point regardless.
So, framing this a bit. You want to disregard Rai's analysis cause you know you yourself are town. I mean, fine. But you're really replying to me in a very lazy way cause you're really pushing this whole "I disregard this cause I know I'm town" without actually, like, touching on how much merit it could have.that was just the initial response because reading his post actually made me angry. i made another post about it which shows that even from a not-knowing-that-im-town perspective, what he's said doesnt really hold up. sure oarfish called me town. how many other people have called me town? and like i said the "suspicious" posts he talks about from me to oarfish just completely fly in the face of what happened.
Like, say Raikaria was replaced by a more confident person, a... entirely dogged persistent person. This isn't a sell on why his posts are bad, it's results oriented and this "replacement Raikaria" so to speak would tunnel you to the end of time because you haven't given a good enough answer.
Like the way you're treating this is very much a brush-off and attempt to wave away the argument without actually looking into the argument. Cause like...
I think the main part is that raikaria's case on o4rfish aims more towards that o4rfish really isn't pushing or casing anywhere. He states his reads, and then kind of... doesn't want to do anything with it. And I feel like you missed that. And I'm not sure why you're concentrating more on this Oar/Conq team that Rai keeps putting up without really thinking about Oar on his own.it's because rai keeps bringing up the oar/conq team as the reason he's voting oar. it's even in his vote switch post
I think the chance of an O4rfish - Conq scumteam is actually good enough that:
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: O4rfish
tl;dr: Reasons I suspect O4rfish+Conq:where are you getting the idea that rai's vote on oarfish is coming from somewhere else?
O4rfish has stated a couple of times a strong townread on Conq.
O4rfish and Conq have both been heavily involved in both mislynches
Conq's behavior concerning O4rfish is inconsistent with his towards other players [Reaction to his questions being ignored]; and him asking O4rfish for his opinion on himself; when O4rfish only just gave it is really fishy.
I kinda don't know why you want to purge this Serela wagon either, it's really short-sighted and it's really a very open statement. It's like... also a very absolute statement and I've been kind of tossing around the concept that I don't actually know where you're at in terms of where you want to start here. What's going on here is that you're really digging into raikaria's wall but I don't see how you're relating that to scumhunting. Taking you with my own perspective of being here as a replacement, I literally have a completely blank slate on what your reads are. And you're scumreading Rai, which isn't a surprise, but it's a very reactive bent.ftr, i'm not actually scumreading raikaria atm or i would be voting him. i've seen town!raikaria make some really boneheaded cases. which is why i'm pushing what he says and see where he's going with it if it makes any sort of sense at all.
##Vote: ActionDan
I think their end of phase yesterday was really weird. Their D1 was actually alright but it feels like he just flipped a switch and forgot all about it? His entire progression D1 seemed to imply they were good with lynching Shadoweh and Duskfall was null, but then they went and voted for Duskfall yesterday? I don't know how much this means since Shadoweh flipped town and Duskfall is the unknown but I can't wrap my head around it. Dan, what changed during D2 to make you want to vote for Duskfall instead of Shadoweh? I know you said the read changed but like... why? It's so out of nowhere.
The point is Serela's doing more than you right now. Which probably means you're scum if we took that attitude.
Like, throw in the barometer that you want Serela to do more. More than what? The average townie? To you, you are the average townie, and you really don't have the comprehensive view of the gamestate Serela currently has right now. So you want him to do more than you. Are you no longer the average townie? Why? Cause you're scum?
Oh my god how does anyone read drunkposting.
I just subbed in and have spent 3 hours in the thread. I have quick spec/skim reads that I feel strongly about but I'm sitting on it so I can think about things real time as they develop.i'm just c-u-rious after all. refa dropped a spicy list before they subbed out and i would be questioning them on it if they were still here. you're also a slot i dont really have a good handle on (despite good vibes from refa, i know they're very capable as scum!) so I'm hoping I can get that from you.
Quite frankly if this was any other, smarter person who isn't stupid enough to play mafia seriously they would basically be a blank slate anyways, so I'm not sure what you're expecting.
It's very clear where I got Rai's reasoning from, it's from Rai's oar case post. But you're right regardless.
So, ActionDan. Niektory's big ol L O R E post is a lot of words for basically no content, yes. Why would you scumread it? Go back to basics here, do a quick
X did this -> scum do X -> X is scum here.
@smartbomb i think fabloo was universally townread similarly to a mason so i can see why they would be nightkilled instead of a mason claim personally. i dont think that we should doubt masons yet based on how hard they have crumbed their roles.
wrt duskfall: primarily wanted to vote them because they werent shadoweh and my tr on shadoweh was stronger than my read on duskfall so yes the stuff i scumread duskfall for mostly came as a revelation around the time i was voting for them and i was trying to post my "PR or scum" read on them after their VT claim when fabloo quickhammered right after they claimed. so i guess a lot of it looks retroactive but its more like i made an assumption i thought was good but wasn't in hidnsight.
i voted for dan because their inconsistency felt more cnsn;uce (what) than the stuff on niek which is still scummy but harder to pin down. so i thought voting for dan here would be more productive because they could give an answer BUT MAYBE THEY WILL JUST GET INACTIVITY MODKILLED INSTEAD which may or may not be sick for us. like dan's inconsistency in votes is weird and undeniable but nieks's stuff is more easy to handwave or ignore but i feel like dan literally cant. There is a chance that I change my vote to Niek later on in the phase but I WAS KIND OF HOPING i would be able to pressure dan and niek in the meantime but uh, sorry I have been drinking my bad.
dormio i love you and i think you're probably town but i have like even less of an idea of what ur post restriction is trying to say than usual. i tried my best to read' consqud (lolwhat?) posts but its too crammed to gather my brain doesnt work. similarly, my eyes are glazing over and i try to read duskfall posts but "i tried to act like pr as vt" feels like fire trucking bullstrawberries do people actually do that? feels like its never an intentional thing to me.
i really do not get why wagons swaying to serela and i think voting is only a small part of their content. shadoweh was not low activity imo but i will look into the abu stuff toomrrow when im in a more clear headspace. however i do think serela response just sounds like "i am townie and you are wrong".
this already feels messy so im going to post this rn and try to read the current page now. conq posts too many words help
eeep who are youvoting right now? im a bit lost
it's cause you're cutewell you're not W R O N G...
If you're gonna make the read make it why are you asking someone else I'd you have to changeDid you mean this quote duskfall because it reads to me as literal gibberish
Raikaria - right now, my position on Conq is that he is a good player who seems towny from approach and actions. From what I've read, the better play is for me to assume he's town. I could do a deep dive on him which might change my mind, but I don't feel like doing that right now.
@nuxl is town dusk usually this self centered when presenting a defense?
also this logic is so weird and irrational it might just restore my faith in him. will reread
this is an outright misrep and you're pulling this out of your ass.
serela still basically only has one case which is definitely in scum!serela range but on balance i think the way shadoweh is approaching the game is scummier. maybe i'll trust my initial gut read on serela.
oh right, oarfish i think i saw you mention something about me/serela/shadoweh's reads on each other but it's not like we have rock solid accuracy on each other. what's your current read on me/serela/shadoweh?
Raikaria - right now, my position on Conq is that he is a good player who seems towny from approach and actions. From what I've read, the better play is for me to assume he's town. I could do a deep dive on him which might change my mind, but I don't feel like doing that right now.
damn I wanted to roll out my final readlist and you have to post nuxl
what a nerd
it's because rai keeps bringing up the oar/conq team as the reason he's voting oar. it's even in his vote switch postwhere are you getting the idea that rai's vote on oarfish is coming from somewhere else?
Not got much more time, I just managed to wake up early.
I also find it interesting that I suggest Conq is scum and his immediate reaction is 'I might need to change my opinion on this guy almost everyone feels is town'. Sounds OMGUS.
Hmm.
damn I wanted to roll out my final readlist and you have to post nuxl
what a nerd
I bring it up as the reason I am voting O4r over Serela.
It is not the sole reason why I scumread O4r. I have an entire post where I'm giving reasons for my O4rfish vote; such as him 'scumreading' SB as his #1 read yet never caseing him or voting for him. Also an early D3 post which seems to be an attempt to sow distrust in people's townreads.
Are you like making this right now? Are you waiting for me?
Letting you throw out your thoughts, not really waiting, it takes a while to write.
Was I trying to look like rp? Yes, for two reasons:
It makes me less likely to get lynched, this is pro town not just pro survivability. I know shaodweh is not town pr because she has claimed by, and I believe she is mafia. Of course it is pro town to have her lynched over me, who I know is town. My scum read getting lynched is always better than me getting lynched, that's a fact.
Now that I think about it there probably wasn't that much reason for scum to push hard for Abu lynch unless either Raikaria or Duskfall98 was scum. So the Serela vote was weak and it's probably better to focus on those two.
Raikaria seems town. I'm not feeling super strongly about Duskfall98's alignment but his flip could give us some idea regarding the Day 1 votes. Plus I do kind of want to carry out the late Abu's will!
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: Duskfall98
Anyway, I'm going to
##Vote: Serela
for now. He was sowing a lot of doubt to the AbuHumaid's ability to prove himself. This influenced my Day 1 vote, at least.
#1767 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2722#msg2722) in particular erks me for that reason but also because "Nuxl is modspewed town" is way too liberal of a stance to take when there is a very easy way to see how kilga could have posted "scum have day-talk" if prompted by scum nuxl.
still typing and constantly refreshing, but would you as a host entertain that kind of stuff and then publicly declare it lmao
as a mafia universe player i would like to announce that you're cursed
as a mafia universe player i would like to announce that you're cursed
you're still cursed.
this was my pre-subin readlist btw.
Dormio
Nekomata
Raikaria
Serela
Zwerdjib
Nuxl
O4rfish
ActionDan
The Null Line
Duskfall
sb
Conqueror
Niektory
you can ama about it while I try and case one of these bottom three players
im glad you got a read on everyone but... is no one really saddling the null line for you?
Okay my opinion is that regardless of any other option I lean lynching abu over not lynching abu just from the train of posts after the vig claim.
Mostly because that was a poor answer in response to Prim's question regarding not showing up to apply a vote/pressure on Dusk. The correct answer is not "I was about to sleep so I didn't get into it", its "I'm sitting on a vig with no apparent agency otherwise and bidding my time to press the button MUWHAHAHA".
Sidenote. lack of crumb is not important and I am surprised Prims cares for that.
uh, vig claim is pretty yikes because it's the classic "let me live for one more day" claim...but it is confirmable if it goes off i guess. abu can you check my iso and respond to the case on you/questions i asked you. will be helpful for me in case you really are town and not bullstrawberriesting rn. also, saying you'll vig duskfall doesn't exactly make you want to vote you less though because if you're a town vig there's so much chaff you could be cleaning out instead and on the off chance that you are a mafia vig then we're just letting you get away with murder (although i dont think mafia vig is particularly likely).
can you explain what he lied about and who are the scummates backing him up on the wagon (i lean town on basically everyone who was voting you so im curious who you pick out)
ngl i would be down for a shadoweh turbo if we don't go through with abu (currently pending)
Well I guess I can understand Shadoweh being low presence regardless of alignment because she doesn't really play mafia anymore, but the biggest thing that pinged me was that she never tried to engage with me D1 despite all my efforts. And then it just took me fakeclaiming a result on her for her to pop in and finally respond and fairly quickly at that! Seems like she was actually reading along the thread or possibly someone alerted her to it. (The other option is that town!Shadoweh was also reading along earlier and made a conscious decision not to engage, which would annoy me on a different level if true).
Also, I didn't even read Shadoweh as annoyed before her reaction to my gambit, she felt lazy and unmotivated with a hint of doomerism. I do think her annoyance at my gambit was real but if she figured it out it was a gambit from the start then I don't see how it's alignment indicative.
I'll do a reread of oarfish after work before I can actually see if I follow that case I think. I don't know how to read oarfish. My experience with him is that he sorta marched to his own beat as town and I guess it would be true as scum too so I don't know how I'd sort him. Interested in seeing his response to you.
Oh my god how does anyone read drunkposting.
i regret playing mafia
leave me alone
thank you for your understanding
Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum
Refa about nuxl, I will say that he will never be an easy read. While I can say things is within his town range and everything so far has been, he is a very hard person to read and tbh even my read on him is kinda bad compared to what it should be, his read on me is much better than mine on him.
Later on the game if I'm not alive to ent I would say use your own intuition, usually scum him gets fed up but he has also solo carried games and he's a lot more active in a scum team of freinds, which is obviously a lot more likely this game if he did role scum.
Right now I'm still null just don't want myself to be quoted later to try clear him when not
He's still a bad D1 vote though
i don't enjoy writing 800 words on why someone is scum regardless of my confidence level unless i'm really mad
this is not one of those times.
like if you want a better push into my mental state i'm like, reasonably certain Raikaria and Serela are very town. Serela in particular is threadspewed town at this point, too many people consider him so obviously townie that scum just don't wanna touch him at this point. Zwerdjib is still kinda there but his tunnel bent is making me feel a bit eh.
You're like, probably town, with the caveat that I'm not entirely confident of what your alignment is. I'm going to ignore the angle cause you're so self-aware that you'd fake it; regardless your posting has been more or less fine and at some point on Day 1 there were just so many people mad at you. Add that all up with the fact that you kind of really feel like a "shield" for the mafia team and your play and interest in the thread doesn't progressively make that much sense from a mafia perspective and I'm, like, fine, but hey, you might be styling.
ActionDan has a few townpoints. I'm not gonna risk the game on it. Niektory is falling out of the "scum very inexperienced" and just not knowing what to do - like this is a very bad read but does Niek really post that large lore wall as scum? He'd avoid it. There's kind of less and less of a chance this is happening. I also don't think he can be really coached about the scumchat thing and it's a huge sticking point. Oh yeah, his response about Abu is really unclean and that's... really good for him.
@nuxl: so the amount of backlash to this Serela wagon is pretty loud at this point, I think. I know people are voting Serela but yeah from what I'm reading that's what I'm thinking. I think you're really being baited by the early few hours where it did feel like Niek or AD. It might still be. I just don't like the route, lol.
If you walk through the coaching topic... you're going to have to find a very torturous route to get to coaching wherein someone in scumchat openly says to Niektory that he should claim he didn't know scumchat was active in the day, or Niektory jumps on the opportunity himself. Like it's possible but I want to deal with probabilities and it's fairly improbable when adding the rest of the criteria.
Do I think a first time player doesn't bother voting EOD out of fear? Hrm, interesting question, not sure what Niektory was doing at EOD2, didn't manage to read up to there. I think it's highly likely that happens on balance, and it's more scum indicative, but I wouldn't push it hard.
I'm just trying to push into Niek's mindset, right. Niek's a new player, first time as scum, he seems fairly... orthodox and a bit overwhelmed. Hrm. Self-conscious is the way to put it, he has a distinct modicum of self-consciousness. So, as scum, he's trying to keep his head above water and play how he plays. I feel like Niek as scum would avoid drawing attention to himself by posting a wall about how each of our flavour characters might be likely to be scum - and I don't really think there were any alignment conclusions about it either, heh?
oh btw if scumchat is on discord tommy is locktown
sorry this isn't true, it's conditionally "scumchat is on discord and none of his partners know his discord"
Oh jesus christ that's a thing isn't it. I am... alright, I'll reluctantly play your game, there's like no private thread function on MOTK, unless they're awkwardly communicating using PMs they pretty much have to be using discord, right.
You're pulling out all the angles here aren't you. Boo.
Someone not playing has provided me with Duskfall's discord info. Thanks!
Oh jesus christ that's a thing isn't it. I am... alright, I'll reluctantly play your game, there's like no private thread function on MOTK, unless they're awkwardly communicating using PMs they pretty much have to be using discord, right.
You're pulling out all the angles here aren't you. Boo.
Nuxl what's your conq read again
fair possibility i've been giving him a pass, smartbomb case is spicy and given fabloo NK isn't completely out of nowhere. but the weird thing is his posts don't feel scummy right
His content is p bad in general, but he just feels like such town and so much of what he says is like "mood" which k think is more important to go with?
Is there any way either of you, or anyone in the game, can really describe why you feel Conq's posts are tonally town? This is kind of difficult cause feelings are hard to describe.
Is there any way either of you, or anyone in the game, can really describe why you feel Conq's posts are tonally town? This is kind of difficult cause feelings are hard to describe.
I think it's pretty clear that Conq is just done with mafia regardless of his alignment (good decision imo, mafia sux) and decided to throw out the track for funsies. I don't think it means he has to be town off it, though. Like when he described why he put down the faketrack he said:
- maybe shadoweh gets caught - this is a reach and he knows it, if he's scum he'll make it up
- maybe it makes shadoweh talk more - honestly don't think conq uses this as really thought-out reasoning for anything; this was made post hoc at the very least. I don't think he made this up to cover the whole thing being stupid but uh
- lol mafia - yeah this is really how I see it and I 100% believe this. I also believe this can come from either alignment though. It's one of the rare fancy plays where the motive is like. literally null, and it's not a good sign for me.
I feel like it's a typical Tommy town game to have like vig omgus me D1 for light pressure, get lynched, I get the blame, shadoweh thunderdome me and die, I get the blame, conq then go for me because of it, flip town, I get the blame etc etc
Its happened before
then the next tommy town game you claim apricity and mewtwohidden are definitely not the unCCd PRs in the semi open and almost get lynched for it
happens
Do you guys think conq would fake this emotion he's had as scum, knowing conq as a person?
within the realm of forced alignments anything can happen
i didnt really notice any ate tone in his posts though but maybe that means i should go reread
Reading the posts I missed. Yep. Conq's done with mafia, I get it. He's kind of boxed in here regardless and needs to reset given his perspective (fake-made cause he's mafia or real cause he's town), which is kind of why he's on raikaria cause I don't really think to him he has a choice.
Again, all of the above is kinda not alignment indicative, Conq would have to do this regardless, I just have problems with how he's executing it.
So like, the emotion's real, and it's kinda brrr. But I can sit in his seat if he's scum and if he's similarly fed up with mafia he probably makes that post anyways. Or it's something that fits with his fake progression. I don't think it's unnecessary at all though, I suppose.
Not really saying it's part of a scum agenda, trying to stray away from that statement. Just saying he has the resource to do it as scum. The fact that I can say that probably points to why mafia sucks, hah.
@Nuxl: I've seen a bunch of gambits, yes. A gambit lasting an hour isn't that bad overall, though with 72 hour days it definitely could've lasted longer yeah lol. Probably not enough to get solid information either, but I don't think Conq was thinking that far regardless of his alignment either.
I uh, don't think Conq was looking or evaluating the reaction that hard, to tell you the truth. Kind of why I'm a bit squinty at it. But I can't really be, if this is town!Conq he probably decided to do it on a lark anyways and wasn't planning it much. I can kind of bite my lip around the reaction not having an effect on him afterwards though, no matter how poorly planned out it was.
The frustration and the drain just seems hard to fake coming into d3 maybe in being bamboozled but I don't want to believe it
i dont think i could ever make a read on the first half on your post lmao
have I ever told you that mafia sux
I didn't even convince you to play you wanted to
i signed up only because you were playing
Unironically who are he masons againdormio and NNR
How can I misrep you LITERALLY ASKING FOR A READ.because of this
And yet; this time; he asks O4rfish a question he just answered [Suggesting he's not actually reading O4rfish?] and dosen't keep pushing O4rfish to answer it.He didn't literally just answer it, I was asking him specifically about that line. Did you see the other post I quoted to you about it?
I also find it interesting that I suggest Conq is scum and his immediate reaction is 'I might need to change my opinion on this guy almost everyone feels is town'. Sounds OMGUS.christ. not what i said. first of all - I dont have almost everyone as town. your townread is mainly over your self-vote actions at the end of d1. after all i havent really been reading your posts because historically i can't read you that accurately. I don't even have you as scum at the moment, but the fact of the matter is I've been completely largely just ignoring your posts and I probably be doing due diligence.
I bring it up as the reason I am voting O4r over Serela.I'm sorry, what? Yes, I know it's not the sole reason you scumread oar. But if you have two cases you're choosing between, and then go for one of them over the others based on associatives I think are weak, I'm going to call that out. You say yourself it's the deciding factor for your vote. What do you think of my responses to you about them?
It is not the sole reason why I scumread O4r. I have an entire post where I'm giving reasons for my O4rfish vote; such as him 'scumreading' SB as his #1 read yet never caseing him or voting for him. Also an early D3 post which seems to be an attempt to sow distrust in people's townreads.
This is a misrep. You're labeling my O4rfish vote as only being because of my You+O4r theory, while in actuality I think he's scummy in his own right and my theory is only what's the deciding factor. I even say I'm about equal on Serela-O4r and flip a while after saying this.
But your defending of O4r and misrepping of my case really dosen't help my opinion.
I'll direct you to my O4rfish case:
https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2791#msg2791
Got to go now.
So like look what I just said above. Note the fact that the paragraph here is literally tossed word salad, Conqueror is off-guard, he doesn't know what he's gonna do, he's trying to hide the fact that he kinda believes the claim (notice he doesn't consider Abu might be just lying as a mafia goon and accepts it's a vig claim of either alignment and that he's shooting Duskfall) and later he goes off on Abu when Abu, well, goes off on everyone else.Nah. This is pretty much how I've always responded to claims in the past (and you can check with people who've played with me before.
This post and the heel turn Conqueror makes to eventually lynch Abu is... like very opportunistic and I can't see how this comes from a town alignment. It's a very classic pressure slip.
uh, vig claim is pretty yikes because it's the classic "let me live for one more day" claim...but it is confirmable if it goes off i guess.I did think he might be lying as a mafia goon, but if he was mafia goon then it's highly likely he would shoot duskfall to "prove" his claim instead of just getting autolynched the next day. That's why I mentioned a mafia vig. I'm pretty
This post and the heel turn Conqueror makes to eventually lynch Abu is... like very opportunistic and I can't see how this comes from a town alignment. It's a very classic pressure slip.Tell me more about the heel turn you're talking about since you apparently "can't see how it comes from a town alignment." I'm sorry, I'm not going to let other people brand me as opportunistic just for pushing a lynch and trying to evaluate it instead of letting other people take the reins. Let's play along with your scenario and say I'm opportunistic mafia in that situation. Under what conditions would I not just let Abu "confirm" himself and get a vig off that night? I'll let you think about the implications of that and that given the flips we have so far and the rest of your reads. Now consider the situation where I'm town. Why do I not continue to lynch Abu instead of another wagon given his responses at the end of the day?
I'd just run with that, but then we get...I made the claim on Shadoweh because it was the only way to get her to post and try to get a read on her and possibly slip up in the process. What scum reason would I have to make the claim on Shadoweh? What if her reaction got her to post more and "confirmed" herself to the point where no one wanted to lynch her?
The tracker claim
What town reason does Conqueror have to make the claim on Shadoweh?
Is there any evaluation Conqueror does, as a player in the game, on the fact that Shadoweh basically no-sold the tracker claim? It is just one and done, he rolls in the tracker claim and doesn't really evaluate how Shadoweh reacts to it and considers it townie? Cause when you're dealing with something like this, when you're making this sort of play, the reaction most of the time is to instinctively townread them if they don't fall over. Reading through Conqueror's ISO I get this:I've never instinctively townread people for not falling to gambits. The most recent game where I did this was in Twitch Plays Pokemon on SF where I scumread Refa's reaction to Shinori's gambit. (I was town, and Shinori and Refa were also town. Oops!). For the context of what I did D2 though, Shadoweh had a fake guilty claimed on her in Angel Beats mafia here. Based on her immediate reaction here I had a good guess she knew I was gambiting:
Now I don't know about you but I don't really see a hint of forgiveness here. Like, I just talked with zwerdjib about how important it is to consider what town!X should have done. Same thing's happening here, except with zwerdjib it sounds like he's having fun trying to tunnel someone to death. Conqueror feels like he's pushing through a mislynch instead.
Conq are you trying to troll me by reminding me of past MotK Trauma? I appreciate your committment to making it just like the old days. :Thonk:But I decided to push on for a bit further in case she would crumble after a few more pushes after I didn't relent(she didn't).
How he's playingI've been increasingly passive because it's pretty clear no one cares about this game, so why should I? And look, people are already attacking me for pushing lynches when I could just do nothing all game and vote along at deadline pouting and saying "aw shucks I don't strongly scumread any of these lynches" and bam 0 flack. My scope on D2 was shadoweh because that was a read I knew I could solve if we kept pressing. I did mention why Duskfall in my posts on D2 before I switched to him. It's annoying that I have to keep pointing this out to people and at this point I don't know if it's deliberate.
Conqueror's just... really passive. Like, Serela and raikaria are extremely NOT passive and it's kind of ridiculous, yes, but I'm reviewing Conqueror's Day 2 and then Day 3. He's got an extremely narrow scope on Day 2, it's kind of nothing but Shadoweh and like when you're comparing to the literal fixer here Serela or Nuxl to a point it's really clear he doesn't really care. So like, I get that he's dumped on Day 3, it follows from a town perspective.
It... just doesn't feel like he's tunnelling at all. Like he said, he moved off from Shadoweh to Duskfall. I don't know why Duskfall, really, I'm staring at these posts and I have no idea why Duskfall over any other player in the game. So like that's really bad for him cause it means he's evaluating other options, right? But he's not saying anything about them.
Not fully caught up with the thread but wanted to catch nuxl while he was still here.
@nuxl what's your current read on tommy? he's massively dropped off d2 to the point where I can't tell what he's thinking anymore when I remember I could still get a general idea of where he stood in the game d1. "oarfish town conq town raik town" as the only reads list of his is like, okay, is that it? I remember him saying in MU spec chat that his town meta was to be super aggressive and get into fights with people and his scum meta was the opposite or something like that and although D1 felt like the former D2 really feels like the latter atm.
Problem is that Shadoweh is also voting for...being self-pres against a claimed vig when I don't feel like that's a strong reason to think he's mafia.
And like his entire back and forth with me and the brick wall that was raikaria was extremely blocky really. He doesn't feel like he's really evaluating anything properly, he's not thinking about the game in terms of who is scum and who is town. This entire thing on raikaria is him being wrong, and while lambasting someone for being wrong is all well and good I don't really feel like Conqueror's hunting for alignments even though he's giving the impression. Like, Duskfall's sitting there on Serelawagon being... Duskfall, there's no other way to describe it, look at his reaction yourself. Conqueror's voted him, he should be a big red target, and Conqueror's off getting mad about raikaria instead. He has about fifty rereads to go through but like. Again, it's very clear that like, openly, he's not been thinking about anyone other than Shadoweh on Day 2. And like I highlighted, it wasn't really that good.You're right that me going off on raikaria was about him being wrong and not because I think he's necessarily maf. Letting people create bad associative reads on you is bad, so I wanted to nip it in the bud. I said myself I still have a townread on him regardless, but I need to check up on that read. You wanted me to get mad about duskfall? Why do you think I said this?
his serela read is outright bad too because he misreps serela's case on shadoweh. honestly i'd purge everyone voting serela who is sheeping raik's case because i dont see what's sheepworthy about this. you could cherrypick almost anyone's votes the way raik did.i found people who were sheeping the serela case scummier than the one who made it in the first place. Like, there's nothing more to be said about what duskfall did. you can say i could have pushed him more but tbh I feel less confident about him even after shadoweh flipped town.
- according to Refa he's outed by choice of nightkills. Now I was briefly aware Fabloo was a cool person but I didn't really pay attention to his walls. If they directly were trying to run over Conqueror and he died over two masons AND Conqueror is trying to brush that under the rug, that's super bad.fabloo was not directly trying to run over me. please point out where they were trying to do that because they were not.
- Nobody cares about him being mafia, really. Given how the game's been going and, well, kind of what Oarfish said to start this day, yeah, not really a big thing but it's really ew.
conq re u scumreading erakaria here? asking striahgtiup becase i dont think i have the abiltiy to eead into subtletly rn but i cam confused a bit. like i dont think i gree with raik case nought to lynch you but your response seems kinda aaggrrsivel] after reading on i see reevaluating so id be interested inw aht you come up with.read my other posts about it. if i was scumreading raik i'd be voting him. it's aggressive because it's a response to a bad case, am i supposed to just take it on the chin or something?
I agree with smartbomb that the way Conq approached Shadoweh yesterday was weird, along with his vote changes in general: see how I mentioned Niek. It felt really fast and hard to follow. The part that I’m whatever about is the reaction test itself because Conq botched the test from the start by saying “NOBODY HAMMER” so I can see why he’d drop it quickly. I feel like he could’ve probably executed it better though so I am confused still.i'm sorry, what was weird about my vote changes? please point out whatever you're talking about.
Conq - Are you only looking at their scumreads?No, but scumreads are more interesting than townreads.
#1069 @conq did you stop townreading me after D1? what happened to your high confidence townread -> solving my slot?my read on you off d1 was mostly good vibes based on how you interacted with the thread and pushed in the same spots i did. you dropped off a lot since then but i know part of it is probably because of oog stuff. that's why im mostly clinging to the modspew aspect and if that's wrong i can just blame kilga, ez.
His content is p bad in general, but he just feels like such town and so much of what he says is like "mood" which k think is more important to go with?i take offense to my content being bad but you're not wrong in that i haven't been motivated to look at this game.
I think it's pretty clear that Conq is just done with mafia regardless of his alignment (good decision imo, mafia sux) and decided to throw out the track for funsies. I don't think it means he has to be town off it, though. Like when he described why he put down the faketrack he said:- shadoweh has folded under tracks before, it's not really a reach.
- maybe shadoweh gets caught - this is a reach and he knows it, if he's scum he'll make it up
- maybe it makes shadoweh talk more - honestly don't think conq uses this as really thought-out reasoning for anything; this was made post hoc at the very least. I don't think he made this up to cover the whole thing being stupid but uh
- lol mafia - yeah this is really how I see it and I 100% believe this. I also believe this can come from either alignment though. It's one of the rare fancy plays where the motive is like. literally null, and it's not a good sign for me.
Reading the posts I missed. Yep. Conq's done with mafia, I get it. He's kind of boxed in here regardless and needs to reset given his perspective (fake-made cause he's mafia or real cause he's town), which is kind of why he's on raikaria cause I don't really think to him he has a choice.(i'm not on raikaria and this was made clear before you made any of your recent posts)
So like, the emotion's real, and it's kinda brrr. But I can sit in his seat if he's scum and if he's similarly fed up with mafia he probably makes that post anyways. Or it's something that fits with his fake progression. I don't think it's unnecessary at all though, I suppose.I'm just going to point out something you said here.
Not really saying it's part of a scum agenda, trying to stray away from that statement. Just saying he has the resource to do it as scum. The fact that I can say that probably points to why mafia sucks, hah.
Like, I just talked with zwerdjib about how important it is to consider what town!X should have doneMaybe I could make those posts as mafia, I don't know. Would probably depend on my scumteam tbh. Fact is that I am demotivated and don't really want to play. Ofc that doesn't mean I'm going to let people push a mislynch on me, I still have my pride after all. What do you mean by "resource to do it as scum?"
@Nuxl: I've seen a bunch of gambits, yes. A gambit lasting an hour isn't that bad overall, though with 72 hour days it definitely could've lasted longer yeah lol. Probably not enough to get solid information either, but I don't think Conq was thinking that far regardless of his alignment either.okay, given what i've already said about this, what kind of reaction would you expect me to have had instead?
I uh, don't think Conq was looking or evaluating the reaction that hard, to tell you the truth. Kind of why I'm a bit squinty at it. But I can't really be, if this is town!Conq he probably decided to do it on a lark anyways and wasn't planning it much. I can kind of bite my lip around the reaction not having an effect on him afterwards though, no matter how poorly planned out it was.
(https://puu.sh/FkTvU.png)mafia was a mistake
CONGRATS GUYS LMAO
Also he read my mafia champs game which was me acting like this as town all game p much so I think he should know that I am prone to building a scumread on someone for tunneling me, I always end up in town slapfigts and I was trying to avoid that this game. You know I do this. And literally the only game conq has seen from me was my biggest example of it everyeah, i hate to defend myself and use self-meta like this but. if im mafia here and duskfall is town no way i try and draw attention to myself like that? duskfall was townreading me pretty hard and all i would do it draw more attention to myself. in the game i watched, duskfall got thunderdomed by like 3 or 4 townies and got them all lynched (he was also town).
At the beginning of d3 I was thinking we are losing because scum are playing better than we are. I suspected the good players to be scum for that reason. Then I read that it's better to lynch players for scummy behavior. I've been trying more traditional ways to play this game.Please point out the parts of his case you liked.
But then Disquieted posted, and ...
Have you ever done something that took a lot of work, and then had someone show up and show you how it's really done, at a level you couldn't get to even with lots of practice? When that happens to me, I get jealous of their talent. All I can do is applaud.
This is me applauding.
##Vote: Conqueror
Conq, you went through Shadoweh and came out the other side. She and you almost had Duskfall lynched. She's now revealed to be town. If I was in your place, I would be handing out torches and pitchforks.Mhmm. I'm not you though. I already tried the torches and pitchforks approach with Shadoweh. Nothing I said about duskfall has really changed but if I was wrong about Shadoweh for so long I have to accept the possibility that I was also wrong elsewhere. I'm also alive for a reason and it's probably because my reads are off.
Conq and Duskfall were cooperating d1. Now that Shadoweh is dead, Conq is saying Duskfall is probably town (being 0-3 for lynches). This makes me think the entire d2 meant nothing to him.Can you point out where I said duskfall was probably town?
But how could that be? He spent so much time digging into Shadoweh and taking her true measure. That was a large emotional investment, right?If I already knew Shadoweh's alignment there was no reason for me to do any of the EOD song and dance yesterday. The reason that happened was because Shadoweh showed up in thread and I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt.
Not if he already knew Shadoweh's alignment.
@ Conq: I never said interactions between You-O4r were massively swingy in me weighing up O4r v Serela as a priority. But they were close enough in my mind that the information gathered post-flip was a tiebreaker.Okay, fair enough. But did you see what I said about the interactions you pointed out? That was what I was so frustrated about when I read your case.
Okay, fair enough. But did you see what I said about the interactions you pointed out? That was what I was so frustrated about when I read your case.
I mean I'd been up for like 30 mins and was getting ready for work...
I get that your focus was on what O4rfish said in #1218. But this doesn't change the fact he'd just given his opinion specifically on you only 6 posts prior, and it dosen't change the fact you didn't follow up on it like you have with most other questions you've asked players.i've quoted the series of posts here
To Refa in re Serela's voters, Serela's posts
Serela is tough for me to read. I've misread Serela with high confidence, as people know.
Conq is a pretty good player. I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake. Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit.
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid. But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid.
Conq and Shadoweh and Serela have played many games with each other. If they have a strong read, it's probably accurate. If they're town, they'll tell the truth about having a strong read. However, if they're scum, they could choose between a true read for false reasons, or a false read for false reasons.
oh right, oarfish i think i saw you mention something about me/serela/shadoweh's reads on each other but it's not like we have rock solid accuracy on each other. what's your current read on me/serela/shadoweh?To me, none of what he said in that first post was a read. He said he didn't have a read on Serela, he didn't have a read on me, and he found Shadoweh suspicious based on my read. Then some if/then statements about me and Shadoweh.
still typing and constantly refreshing, but would you as a host entertain that kind of stuff and then publicly declare it lmao
koishi is satoris sister(https://i.postimg.cc/sxnnYXPf/776-jpg.gif)
I've read that Town/Town lynches the scumteam splits between them, but with a heated mislynch like Abu's the scumteam won't join in because they don't like to fake anger.
I've read that the presence of those is a moderate scumtell, and the absence is a strong towntell.
From what I've read, the better play is for me to assume he's town.
Then I read that it's better to lynch players for scummy behavior.
Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine
Ftr people are wondering why I thought prims would be pr target; sometimes when people are playing differently and look scummy or off meta to town players, they look the same for scum players. So like town players read the difference as "not town", scum players read the difference as "not VT", bit I guess I'm the only one following this logic now oopsI'm still perfectly fine with lynching him.
Does anyone remember that game where Conq was the towny scum at LYLO and then BT lynched him?HEY I LYNCHED HIM TOO OK
Does anyone remember that game where Conq was the towny scum at LYLO and then BT lynched him?
Abu could have asked Kilga.
the heel turn Conqueror makes to eventually lynch Abu is... like very opportunistic and I can't see how this comes from a town alignment. It's a very classic pressure slip.
It... just doesn't feel like he's tunnelling at all. Like he said, he moved off from Shadoweh to Duskfall. I don't know why Duskfall, really, I'm staring at these posts and I have no idea why Duskfall over any other player in the game. So like that's really bad for him cause it means he's evaluating other options, right? But he's not saying anything about them.
Raikaria - I think the d1 interactions between Conq and Duskfall are suspicious. Do you agree?
Serela - yes! What was that game called?
Is anyone having funDefine "fun".
The bitter end comment has me kind of confused because you're not even being voted afaik?That was maybe premature but town in general and me in particular don't seem to be doing all that well.
Do you think Oarfish's posts are more likely to be scum or not? I can't tell from your post if you're just nullreading them after saying that.It reads like he's distancing himself from what he posts so maybe slightly scummy? But mostly I just though they were funny.
If I'm getting major pushback on a read of mine from people I don't necessarily think are mafia, I'll usually drop it.
Here's my most recent town game where you can see this.
https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/83239-twitch-plays-pokemon-mafia-noc15pgame-over-town-wins/
I got into a slapfight with refa and then I did a 180 on him later because refa was getting no traction.
Mhmm. I'm not you though. I already tried the torches and pitchforks approach with Shadoweh. Nothing I said about duskfall has really changed but if I was wrong about Shadoweh for so long I have to accept the possibility that I was also wrong elsewhere. I'm also alive for a reason and it's probably because my reads are off.He was wrong about Shadoweh, therefore he might also be wrong about Duskfall. But Conq changing his mind about lynching Shadoweh led to Shadoweh almost surviving the day.
@Conq The voteswitches here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2271#msg2271), here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2329#msg2329) and here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg2329#msg2329) are what I'm talking about. I didn't see why you'd vote Niek to try and make them post and just... not comment about Niek posting right after you voted them (weird circumstance) when you unvoted to go back to Shadoweh. I know that I asked you about this before and you just said they were fine but... Idk, I figured there would be something more to it. Changing to vote Duskfall over Shadoweh again a few hours later felt better justified, but also really scattered? Like you didn't care that much where your vote actually was.i'm going to assume the third link is to my duskfall vote. i feel like i've already gone through all these already. vote on niek was to start a wagon for consolidation since i didn't townread him. then i switched back to shadoweh once everyone moved there. I didn't comment on the new niek post because my impression of it was "sure whatever" and i was moving off him anyway. like, what more would i say about it? i guess i could have said something like "oh niek is looking better now" but iirc my impression at the time was something "okay this is adequate enough i guess, and it's unlikely this will happen over shadoweh now so we'll have future days to look at it." would have been a lot of words to say nothing so i just didn't. if i didnt care where my vote was i would have stayed on shadoweh lol. i moved to duskfall because i like playing with shadoweh and i wanted to see where that would go (and it's not like i had a townread on duskfall!), with the added bonus of trying and getting shadoweh back into the game instead of being defeatist if she was town (which ended up being the case).
Also I don't think you'd take a case you disagree with lying down but honestly I was starting to get the same vibes I did from you in TPP where you thunderdomed the fire truck out of me and Refa and was really confused because it seemed out of place. Still am confused, kinda. I don't get that vibe from your latest posts though and I'm not sure what that means?i have no idea what you're talking about here. i haven't really reached thunderdome level with anyone in this game (duskfall is the closest i guess but in TPP I pulled out all the stops to case refa because i was so mad). you're right that vibe isnt here though because when i joined TPP i was playing my first mafia game in something like 4 years and wanted to scratch the mafia itch. this game is more like a swan song. what were you expecting, exactly? what are you confused about?
Wrt Execution : "I'm still sorting my reads on other players out so don't rush hammer yet" or something other than just "yeah, don't hammer guys even though Shadoweh is definitely absolutely scum".it was a spur of the moment thing and it didn't cross my mind to say something different at the time. Like, in retrospect i could have done better but this is the first time I've done it. So.
Conq is in this weird place now where smartbomb's case is genuinely good and there are some oddities (see my other recent posts) but overall his gameplay is strong in a way that I just can't feel confident about lynching it. It feels like he's genuinely frustrated with the game and that makes sense after Shadoweh flipped town for Conq here I think? It looks like he genuinely beleives in his defense which is a point in his favour and I can't reconcile my read on him properly. I'm kind of uncomfortable but not willing to lynch here today I think.okay, no. i can understand why people would like smartbomb's case in a vacuum but a lot of the things he points out as things that don't make sense for town!me to do are things i squarely do as town. can you point out which parts of his case were compelling to you?
I still think in spite of Duskfall weirdness that Dan is the most revealing lynch with a good chance of flipping scum.i think i favor a dan lynch over duskfall myself but what exactly is more revealing about a dan lynch? duskfall lynch at least resolves the mystery of how we look at d2 if he flips scum (although not so much if he flips town)
The post you quoted seems ok to me. The line "Vigging dusk does not make me less inclined to lynch you" is the only thing I'd find fault with since I don't know why anyone would care if dusk was vigged there unless Conq thought Dusk was town.I did on d1, yeah. Also I appreciate the defense, Dan but it kinda feels like you just tried to crawl up my ace of spades with that entire post. What have been your thoughts on me outside of smartbomb's post on me?
His quote from that game:linking the post you're referring to for context
"Look, I'm not asking you to agree with me about my approach or my opinions - I can be wrong! If you think I'm right about what I said about Refa/Elemina, then do your reads change because of that? That's what I want to know. Is joining the Evan wagon because he had more votes scummy now that we know both the D1 wagons were town?"
That sounds a lot different to me.
My thoughts on Conq's latest posts: He was wrong about Shadoweh, therefore he might also be wrong about Duskfall. But Conq changing his mind about lynching Shadoweh led to Shadoweh almost surviving the day.can you complete this thought? i think you're missing a conclusion at the end, or maybe i misread something.
Raikaria - I think the d1 interactions between Conq and Duskfall are suspicious. Do you agree?
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
NNR and Duskfall effectively haven't posted at all. Raikaria -has- made posts, and has responded to other players, so there's actually something there to place judgment on.
##unvote
##vote raikaria
yeah im sheeping serela :o
shadoweh should still pretend my vote is on her but i wanted to try this before i sleep
HEY I LYNCHED HIM TOO OK
also yes dan my misery is real, every time i reread anyone in this game the green indicators of townie townness jump out everywhere, the way dusk thinks, nuxl's meta reads on him, it just doesn't seem scum at all even though his actual play seems sort of scummy, niektory being confused d1 because he was assuming from the start that scum did not have daytalk so he didn't know how anyone could be getting coached by their buddies, rai's high effort play with big cases and rereads and connections over multiple players (even if I'M SORRY I REALLY DON'T AGREE WITH THEM), refa's intense curiosity and questioning of everyone and everything, dorms and nnr are masons, and sb/conq just look strongly and consistently town imo, esp. conq today
define Question20
{
So what's the argument against an O4rfish lynch anyway?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question20)
return (Opinions)
}
Also Dormio and NNR are claimed Masons, not confirmed Masons.
I'll be around to change vote to Oarfish later. There's an implied jinxed conclusion here that I'm coming to if you can read between the lines.
is it not the obvious implication or am i just dumb
alright, hammering out a few quick responses before bed
i'm going to assume the third link is to my duskfall vote. i feel like i've already gone through all these already. vote on niek was to start a wagon for consolidation since i didn't townread him. then i switched back to shadoweh once everyone moved there. I didn't comment on the new niek post because my impression of it was "sure whatever" and i was moving off him anyway. like, what more would i say about it? i guess i could have said something like "oh niek is looking better now" but iirc my impression at the time was something "okay this is adequate enough i guess, and it's unlikely this will happen over shadoweh now so we'll have future days to look at it." would have been a lot of words to say nothing so i just didn't. if i didnt care where my vote was i would have stayed on shadoweh lol. i moved to duskfall because i like playing with shadoweh and i wanted to see where that would go (and it's not like i had a townread on duskfall!), with the added bonus of trying and getting shadoweh back into the game instead of being defeatist if she was town (which ended up being the case).
i have no idea what you're talking about here. i haven't really reached thunderdome level with anyone in this game (duskfall is the closest i guess but in TPP I pulled out all the stops to case refa because i was so mad). you're right that vibe isnt here though because when i joined TPP i was playing my first mafia game in something like 4 years and wanted to scratch the mafia itch. this game is more like a swan song. what were you expecting, exactly? what are you confused about?
it was a spur of the moment thing and it didn't cross my mind to say something different at the time. Like, in retrospect i could have done better but this is the first time I've done it. So.
okay, no. i can understand why people would like smartbomb's case in a vacuum but a lot of the things he points out as things that don't make sense for town!me to do are things i squarely do as town. can you point out which parts of his case were compelling to you?
i think i favor a dan lynch over duskfall myself but what exactly is more revealing about a dan lynch? duskfall lynch at least resolves the mystery of how we look at d2 if he flips scum (although not so much if he flips town)
sb has dropped his ActionDan vote and then like... I don't know what's going on after that. The ActionDan vote was a feeler I think and he's posted a bunch of words that sound nice but if he's going to like just assess wagons every day he's really playing like a passenger and keeping his head above water. That's not OK.
Dan is low content in terms of both what he posts and what people post about him. Pushing him into the spotlight rn forces people who haven't cared about him to care, and I think with lurkers its easy to justify a stance on them either way as scum ("this is scummy" or "not enough content") so the associations based off of his flip are still fine as town and golden as scum. Town!DUskfall flip feels like we gain almost nothing if he's town apart from a feeling that we all suck at this game.
So like none of this sounds like a scumread. I've missed about 24 hours of this day, but you started with a "hey dan wasn't very towny at end of day 2, what's up" and you've ended with "well Dan's associations are good for a lynch anyways". Like you've had 48 hours to push him in the spotlight, are you planning to put his dead body in the spotlight and his townflip is suddenly going to give you more answers than the counterwagon at end of Day?
Like am I missing something in between here? Cause where you want to lynch is like, full of air and that's really bad considering you've made these huge posts and apparently your conclusion is trash, not gonna mince words.
Like sb.
I can feel the fatigue and stuff dripping off from Nuxl and zwerdjib.
I'm not feeling any of that from you. I get that you had a bender last... night, or however time works. But you're stuck back here on ActionDan, you said you wanted to see Duskfall's reaction to his own EOD wagon today and you've gone nowhere with it and you're seemingly stuck on ActionDan, a push that from my perspective looks like a feelpush and not actually someone you're trying to hard case especially again when Niektory is more dangerous here. But apparently you're sticking with it right now.
Your words feel disingenuous and I don't know what sort of progression you're putting here, and at some point I'm considering whether it's just trying to be needlessly performative for the sake of getting sick town tone and content reads.
Since this got lost before, @Duskfall who are your least confident townreads right now? Why are you less sure of them than the others?
Also I think it's quite important to note that in this townread spiel from Serela; he doesn't mention Zwerdjib; O4rfish or Duskfall [Who is; you know, a pretty major wagon right now and can in no way be called a lurker]FTR duskfall is LITERALLY the first person I talk about there. Also o4rfish is town and everyone needs to stop voting him please. Zwerdjib... wait strawberries I was supposed to reread my own posts to remember why I even thought he was town before because I don't remember ;_;
So does Serela not Townread them? Does Serela 'townread' them but not feel able to explain why like everyone else? Does Serela scumread them but can't be asked to case them over just going for lurkers?
aww crud this is how it gonna be ain't it
ugh i legit don't know what to do
ok reminder about the nightkills:
WE HAVE TWO CLAIMED MASONS. NEITHER DIED. BOTH HARD SUSPECTED O4RFISH WITH LITTLE TO NOTHING IN THE WAY OF OTHER SUSPICION. THE MAFIA SHOT SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T SUSPECT O4RFISH INSTEAD.
Even if your take from this is somehow 'hey guys are the masons scum' that STILL means o4rfish is probably town.
@Conq do you have a read on smartbomb/refa slot given their case?not really, no. was hoping to see their response so i could evaluate them. i usually have to resist the urge to auto-townread anyone who makes a decent case on me because im not an "easy lynch" but if smartbomb really did come up with this read while speccing then ofc it wouldn't mean anything. so his response to my response would help me see depending on how much he stuck with it.
I guess this suggests scum should be townreading players in question and then nightkilling them? So in this instance, I don't really know why scum!smartbomb goes and makes a case on Conq since it seems absolutely impossible for it to flip where there are easier routes available. I don't really know why o4rfish goes and sheeps the vote on Conq. It's so weird. Maybe the number is too high for it to succeed? I don't know why Niek voted Duskfall of all people, and Dan's vote isn't really doing anything given deadline is soon.i mean, you say it's impossible but enough people have shown interest that a deadline panic lynch is possible. there's pretty much no reason not to make the case if smartbomb is scum and had it ready. wdym by the "number is too high", what number?
Like Conqueror gets a pass cause he definitely has been pushing but his focus has been super super narrow, and he's not currently voting, which probably speaks to itself.im not voting yeah but i don't always vote when im not confident, esp as the game goes on. i've already stated my support for a dan lynch not because i scumread him especially but because he's a decent enough option and whenever i think about pushing somewhere else i get doubts from something or other i've seen.
Like Conq you responded to me by saying that oarfish can be aggressive like this. But from my hazy skim he's not actually posting anything really powerful that you probably couldn't dispel very easily - X being towny scum is one of the most tilting arguments you can get on a person, and you're just like, whatever about it. I'm probably highly misinterpreting this but I'm really tired so this is what you get.The aggressiveness is about his attitude, not about whether he posts content that is actually strong. It's null is what I mean.
What I don't get is how you seem to like, not give an alignment on him either. You've specifically phrased your read in such a way that you avoid giving a read to Oarfish which is like super fire trucking weird. Like. I don't know how to explain it. Nuxl, you're smart, can you like, go through why this is so bizarre? I don't have the words for it, not enough energy.this...is not that bizarre for me. there are slots i tend to ignore throughout the game because i can't read them through conventional methods so i wait until later in the game when we have more flips to work off of. like, it would be super easy for me to throw out a lazy read like "eh i think this guy is kinda town for how his pushes make no sense at all so there's no agenda there" or "eh i think this guy is kinda scummy because he's just throwing mud everywhere until it sticks and has no town flow of mind" but i don't like making up reads on people unless im deliberately trying to entrap someone so i'm being honest, i don't have a read on him, whenever i have a read it gets canceled out by the fact that he's oarfish and if i gave a read it would just be meaningless busywork cluttering up the thread to make me look good. you can attack me for that if you want but it's dumb.
Either way you've completely ignored that Oarfish may be usually aggressive but this is the first time he's shown actual pushy aggression all game.okay, so what does that mean? what am I ignoring here? what conclusion am i supposed to make from that? i know you're deep in confirmation bias but look at it through my eyes.
Let's drag Rai's little case in here - Rai's read more of the game in-depth and he's come to the conclusion you've not actually pushed anywhere. So you didn't like, think about this at all when Oarfish is acting out of sync to his town game? Like even if you don't know his scumgame that's probably cause for concern and you've just left. the post there.okay this gave me a double take and i had to look back at rai's reread post on me because i see this bolded part nowhere in his posts. i've also never said anywhere that oarfish is acting out of sync with his town game. you're actually putting bullstrawberries in my mouth at the point, what the fire truck? all his weird posting is consistent with his town game as i know it, i just said that it doesnt mean it cant be consistent with his scum game.
Conq I don't know whether I've missed it but here's the flat deal; you, sb, and Oarfish have avoided giving a strong read to anyone for the entire game and it's making people like raikaria ignore you. And the first time Oarfish gives a strong read, the interaction is just something I'm blowing ??? over.okay, i dont know how you can say this given how i played d1 and d2 because i definitely played that pretty aggressively!
Dan and Niek both coming out of nowhere to vote Duskfall is kinda interesting though when neither really has much of a case beyond what they posted before. Dan, what do you think of Duskfall's most recent posts? Who would you be voting for if not for Duskfall and why? I'd actually like to extend this question to Niek too.
That's because it isn't a scumread? It's an added benefit that I only expanded on in response to Conq. My real problem with Dan is that when he vanishes for several days at a time he somehow arrives at phase end with totally different vote (all day on Shadoweh, then voting Duskfall with Shadoweh), and that he only appears when pressured so like... taking the pressure off of him means he just gets to fade off into the background again. The only explanation he gave later for Duskfall over Shadoweh was that he just started to townread Shadoweh more later but he couldn't explain why, which is the safest explanation you could possibly give? I also read his posts and don't really know what he wants to do today beyond the Duskfall vote, honestly, which isn't a good luck considering how his reads have flipped already once.
I did on d1, yeah. Also I appreciate the defense, Dan but it kinda feels like you just tried to crawl up my ace of spades with that entire post. What have been your thoughts on me outside of smartbomb's post on me?
I don't know why Niek voted Duskfall of all people, and Dan's vote isn't really doing anything given deadline is soon.
Dan is low content in terms of both what he posts and what people post about him. Pushing him into the spotlight rn forces people who haven't cared about him to care, and I think with lurkers its easy to justify a stance on them either way as scum ("this is scummy" or "not enough content") so the associations based off of his flip are still fine as town and golden as scum.
Oarfish cause I can't remember the posts i was townreading him off, only that they were really towny at the time
ah fire truck im late for work so ill make this quick
@sb yes it was a gamble because i like playing with shadoweh and i wanted to see where that would go. in the game i just linked i did something similar with sheeping sham's vote (although i cant check rn to see if i was scumreading them)
i got aggressive at rai because his associatives case pissed me off. associatives on anyone when there are no flips pisses me off in general. yes i know it do it too. it's almost always wrong.
see first para
that's only if duskfall is town though. town!dan doesnt give us much either by that metric
I also want to mention, that theoretically maybe this could happen, but it's definitely not. It's all too likely I'll be a consolidation lynch and my town flip will just be another indication that dusk should have been lynched (or maybe for smartbomb, Conq). Which associations do you see currently?
Dan and Niek both coming out of nowhere to vote Duskfall is kinda interesting though when neither really has much of a case beyond what they posted before. Dan, what do you think of Duskfall's most recent posts? Who would you be voting for if not for Duskfall and why? I'd actually like to extend this question to Niek too.
aww crud this is how it gonna be ain't it
ugh i legit don't know what to do
ok reminder about the nightkills:
WE HAVE TWO CLAIMED MASONS. NEITHER DIED. BOTH HARD SUSPECTED O4RFISH WITH LITTLE TO NOTHING IN THE WAY OF OTHER SUSPICION. THE MAFIA SHOT SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T SUSPECT O4RFISH INSTEAD.
Even if your take from this is somehow 'hey guys are the masons scum' that STILL means o4rfish is probably town.
did you see prims reads d1
I'd be voting Niektory if not Duskfall. There's a couple places in their posts that are scummy and I've detailed them previously. Beyond that I'm not sure. I need to read Nuxl's stream of consciousness large wallpost which I never like doing, but he's a read I need to flesh out because what I've seen so far was unimpressive. I am starting to get worried about Serela's posts today. I don't mind that he apparently has townreads on everyone and I think sees equity in my lynch... but I do have posts today at least and I'm not even sure Serela has read any while voting me. I'd just like some assurance he's done that (also NNR too if possible)
Every time one of these unElite mafia babies says "modpewed" i regret our vig slot was wasted on the most garbage townie of all time
Actually, hm.
Nuxl, what did you think of Duskfall's reaction to being supposedly cleared? I kinda expected something... more, in hindsight, but you know him better than me?
uggghhhhh I see where this is going
I didn't want to do this right now
I'm claiming Not Being Vanilla
I will literally stop an o4rfish lynch don't make me do this
// Phoneposting to say that I don't come anywhere close to trusting selery enough to move my vote.
Uhhh if you're a lynchstopping role please don't fire truck with the lynch even if you disagree with it, the numbers don't work ad we lose a mislynch anyway.you'll understand later this was in your best interest please understand that I'm not the Serela who fakeclaimed cop to try to pull the nk on my second game, at this point I know what I'm doing >:C
Seems... like a mistake. We can come back to this tomorrow.
REALLY rather not No Lynch today which is liable to occur if only o4rfish is still viable in two hours before people won't move*because people don't move
never seen him in that situation before so i treated his reaction as an ego/personal thing lmfao
i do agree he should still not be voting serela right now but he also hasnt been here so :shrug:, haven't really parsed much posts since
i dont think a mistake is the word to describe it?
What ego though? If anything I thought his response was really tame and I kinda expected him to brag about being cleared after everyone doubted him as town.
What, you prefer “gross mechanical play error”?
never seen him in that situation before so i treated his reaction as an ego/personal thing lmfao
i do agree he should still not be voting serela right now but he also hasnt been here so :shrug:, haven't really parsed much posts since
He's voting me.
Also I said before that there are circumstances in which you are not town and kilga publicly states that in response to private inquiry, originating from you, that scum have daytalk. I can understand why you keep repeating this, but my mind is not going to be changed.
I assume there's no cop in the setup with masons so I'm curious what serela has on oarfish but I'm happy to believe it.
you're not getting any more info out of me than that right now so don't even askSo when can we ask?
yeah on D2? where the modpost literally said "someone asked me in private"?
I was asked about this in private and it made me remember that convention differs from web sight to web sight and even from game to game on a given web sight so I should be clear about it in public: Scum do have daytalk.
is there even 7 for hypothetical conq lynch right now? duskfall?
So when can we ask?
Hey hey, can you answer my question from earlier?
Dan I am like 99% sure Nuxl is town from that. I don't really want to get into trying to outthink the mod too much but I think they would've intervened earlier had a scum member been seen as "clear" due to a host mistake.
Kinda want to try this ##unvote
##Vote: sb
I'm claiming Not Being Vanilla@others: How could it happen? Is it likely given
I will literally stop an o4rfish lynch don't make me do this
- This game will contain roles in some capacity. At zaniest, there will be mild modifications of common roles. Don't expect anything too crazy.
- NEW! That being said, since we actually got 17 players, there may or may not be one or two roles people would argue aren't "common". Still, nothing crazy.
If i can't lynch oarfish I can still lynch the guy whose primary defense to his votes the entire game have been nothing except "dont vote Me because... im town"
Hey hey, can you answer my question from earlier?
Dan I am like 99% sure Nuxl is town from that. I don't really want to get into trying to outthink the mod too much but I think they would've intervened earlier had a scum member been seen as "clear" due to a host mistake.
I dunno does this read like a post from a dude that is first vote on Dan's wagon
Niek am I actually invisible?
We don't know what role Serela has and we don't know the alignment of that role. We also don't know the role of any of the mafia members.
Duskfall I have no idea what you're trying to say with that last part but why does scum!SB bus scum!Dan today?
Have you not been reading the rest of my recent posts?
@raikaria Can you specifically look at page 7-8 and tell me what you read?
(also it doesn't seem like anybody else is actually voting Conq so I don't think o4r's vote actually matters)
Why the fire truck would you post three posts within ten minutes, after I JUST ASKED YOU TO CUT THAT strawberries OUT?
Try thinking about your posts BEFORE you post them, which even could be (and should be) AFTER you write them. More content in fewer posts - this would be easier for other people (such as me) to read and understand.
Unless your priority is filling up the thread instead of getting other people to read and understand what you write. That would be scummy, so if you're scum you should keep doing what you're doing.
In response to your point about implications that aren't there, Nuxl, you said "anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana"
You are threatening people, and I made assumptions as to what the threat was, and the reason for making this threat. I will place an apology in escrow on the condition that those assumptions were incorrect.
Therefore: please explain fully AND IN ONE SINGLE POST what your threat was, and why it was justified (from a Town perspective).
I will say this: when a person makes me think "person is playing Mafia in a backwards manner" my response is not "I must protect that person"
Sorry again for the difficult time. I'm being hit especially hard by the virus thing workload wise
Which one are you referring to here this is a nonsense question
This post is actually good and I kinda wish it wasn’t. fire truck.
Maybe Niek is the scummier lurker after all.
Raikaria can you stop making dumb cases against obvtown
Niek am I actually invisible?Yes.
Well; this post stands out:
Splitting different thoughts into different posts can actually be good to read IMO, rather than a wall of text. It seems quite a silly thing to attack someone over.
Also I see a lot of talk about ~meta~.
I also see you telling Refa to read O4rfish on Page 7 on Page 8. I also see me misunderstanding the votecount formatting horribly.
Me too!
I also don't particularly like a Duskfall or Actiondan lynch. I don't scumread them. I wouldn't *not* lynch them if it was that or No Lynch giving Mafia 2 kills [By the way; this is making me really suspicious of Serela's declaration to stop the lynch].
IMO I see 4 routes:
1: Just lynch InActionDan
2: Lynch Serela. His "PR" flip might clear O4rfish, and if he flips Red so is O4r 100% at this point. Also works to lynch O4r as well I guess and call Serela's bluff?
3: Lynch Conq. I'm not sure if this could go through, but he is my #3 scumread.
4: See if there's anyone else we can get majority on who isn't a large townread [Zwer really hasn't actually *done* much and no-one talks about him either it's odd; like I literally asked for a discussion on him and no-one but him commented.]
---
I wasn't even making a case I was answering Nuxl's question D:
btw, Smartbomb, did you read that post of mine about your conq case?
Not much to be done now but I had thought you where going to touch on that earlier but that didn't happen
Honestly? All of them, but I'll give you a few so you catch my drift:
Hint: I'm less confident than before because Dan's posts have been getting better.
Nobody would give me cred for bussing scum!Dan lol. Dormio already made a post on me earlier in the game about how I've bussed in past games and people haven't wanted to townread me at all here anyway except for Serela, and that's all game long.
Was the other part of your post supposed to be me setting up your lynch tomorrow or something?
i dont really mega like the major two wagons but again hostage situation
conq or sb would be spicy for the purpose of "see who actually does it" but nobody will lol
Yeah I really just don't see Conq scum. D1 it could make sense but D2 it just falls apart I think. It looks too geniune, he did a crazy stunt, the way he acted around me, and then there's so much stuff from his d3 that I just
i don't see conq scum here
on dusk there's things I think scum wouldn't be doing but I could be totally wrong and he's just a wild card kind of guy, his overall play is not actually that amazing and I wouldn't really be against lynching him even if it's not my first priority here
I read back about what you said on Niek and it seems to check out? I was wondering what you thought about his Duskfall vote though, since they’re your secondary scumread voting for your primary.
Zeep has been townread strongly by a few people but majorly lost presence actually when he said he's be more active.I mean sb this post is part of why i wanted to actually do that zwerd reread right now!
The fact you aren't townreading me is actually incredibly infuriating considering in the last you have pretended in an easy read so often, I'm practically modspewed and obviously town for anyone who has played with me more than once tbh.
I am ok with a Zwerd turbo tbh. Usually he's a hyperposter and he's not here.
I mean sb this post is part of why i wanted to actually do that zwerd reread right now!
duskfall none of the reasons i thought you were town were related to being 'modspewed'. you are not modspewed for doing something that probably would have happened anyway. talk about low hanging fruit, plz. it's the kind of thing mafia can just go "oh hey, i'll get the easiest townie points ever if I do X"
The last minute "oh let's just do x" will never flip scum ever ever because scum will defend there's only 90 minutes left
Or like scum can just stay out of thread and we won't get enough votes
usually? have you played with him?
My real problem with Dan is that when he vanishes for several days at a time he somehow arrives at phase end with totally different vote (all day on Shadoweh, then voting Duskfall with Shadoweh), and that he only appears when pressured so like... taking the pressure off of him means he just gets to fade off into the background again. The only explanation he gave later for Duskfall over Shadoweh was that he just started to townread Shadoweh more later but he couldn't explain why, which is the safest explanation you could possibly give? I also read his posts and don't really know what he wants to do today beyond the Duskfall vote, honestly, which isn't a good luck considering how his reads have flipped already once.
Ok boss I guess we're lynching ActionDan then
Duskfall, this is my most recent post on why I wanted to lynch Dan. Wanting to lynch Dan to get info on you is hard misinterpreting because I keep saying why I haven't liked his posts until literally today when he started to post better and refute it.
You voted Dan yesterday for a while. Dan voted you today and tried to get you lynched instead of Shadoweh on D2. That's plenty of interactions to read into in my book!
I surprisingly okay with turboing Zeep in theory but don't think it will happen, and I'm even more surprised that people actually want to do it.
How can anyone but scum read someone who has done literally nothing the entire game while spamming the thread with posts as a townie
How is choosing one VT over another VT a good interactions to read into
all my reads I've believed inmore than we can say for zeep
that's definitely not what I said serela lol.
sorry if I implied that. I have no experience with him at all. Just his behavior (not posting right now) is different than previously in this same game.
Which to my mind, is scummy because its a crucial time and he ought to know that.
Serela it's 40 minutes to deadline and you're ISOing and checking a read on someone who has zero chance to get lynched, if these other targets aren't getting lynched either.3~4 people JUST said they'd be interested in this turbo and people really uh, aren't univted on the other wagons,lots of people are currently here, it could happen
Because if you're scum Dan decided to vote for scum instead of a VT?
Sigh Niek. Can you answer me about why Serela's thing matters to you at least?
this is like the pot calling the kettle black
this is like the pot calling the kettle black
That does not help my read on you when I know I am VT, and if you are scum you would know that
Who do you want to lynch besides Dan?
No its not. Do I hyperpost normally?
What's up with 1 being AD only when Duskfall is also getting leading lynch?
secondly, this assumes i am even remotely prepared for an eod. like my activity has ebbed a lot and, like i said, my reads are outdated as fire truck and even if i did have srs theyd just be posts that stick out in and of themselves. fortunately, ill probably have a lot more time to play if im alive tomorrow since ill have much more time and motivationZwerd even admits his reads are all outdated and meh and he'll fix it later, but today he really... has just lurked it out for that.
Nuxl I'm never gonna push you because I don't want to be stupid for pushing modspew town
But this is one of your scummiest games I've seen in a while why are you not trying to solve it's EOD
So, Nuxl. This lynch, huh.
Niektory is literally lynching me because I said I'm town agressively
Can we not go through with this?
honestly i've just been reading eimm chats on the host account, and i've already said my piece here nor know what securely to do
i dont think anything will happen. i prefer dan but i have bad vibes on it compared to everything else that was on the table earlier today
why is serela trying to cfd zwer here lol
he moved on to serela
like, zwerd's drifting along doing n o t h i n g and getting AWAY with it
Sigh Niek. Can you answer me about why Serela's thing matters to you at least?Just annoyed about a cryptic end of day bombshell that I don't know how to react to.
Cause Serela is cute :C
I mean we seem to be rolling into a duskfall lynch.
Imagine leaning so hard on a self proclaimed mod clear that you angrily flail at anyone who dares to vote you while not persuing anyone at all that has done anything scummy
Ok guys fun fact when dusk is in the game:
Don't lynch me when people voting me haven't actually engaged me because when I'm town I'm very good at defending myself
No one on my wagon has engaged me in such a way that they have tried solve me, where I can actively explain and defend myself
Closest is SB asking me have I read his posts then saying no I haven't when I try talk to him
No one on my wagon has tried solve me their are just voting me because I'm a bit of a dick. Please note this is not scummy, it is in fact my town meta because k get way nicer as scum usually.
I'm just obvtown here for anyone who's played with me and tbh if I'm lynched it's due to people who have played with me before and should be able to read me.
Saying "well I probably won't vote you" isn't helpful, I'd you are supposed to be able to read me you should be trying to read me rather than trying to avoid commiting. You should be helping the whole game not just your vote. Yes nuxl this is about you I'm mad, sorry.
If my lynch actually goes through today I'm ngl, re iso me and look at me saying nuxls meta about stamina earlier in the game.
I know he is meant to be modspewed but I'm seriously beginning to doubt it at this point
Sorry everyone I flame I've tried to be less toxic this year
Oh cool
He's gonna move back all the same
Just annoyed about a cryptic end of day bombshell that I don't know how to react to.Sorry, these kinds of things happen! Please at least give an opinion on what you think about the other wago-oh you just did. Oh. Thanks! @.@
But yeah let's get back on track.
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: Duskfall98
I'd actually be fine with zwerdjib as well.
I hate metaspewing
I hate people thinking mod posts are mod clears
I hate voteparks on impossible wagons
I hate your behavior every day including the strawberries that got you unfortunately not lynched d2
Its town but I've no choice atp
##unvote
##vote: zwerdjb
with the people who've voiced acceptance with swapping to zwerd at EoD for the lynch the wagon is now officially viable!!
Do you prefer it over dusk?yes
Are there people ok with this over dusk i've been skimming
yes
sb was interested in a zwerd turbo iirc, dan and niek at least said they'd swap to it for the majority lynch
dormio said he'd show back up before deadline, conq/zwerd do not seem to be present
But yeah let's get back on track.
##Unvote: Serela
##Vote: Duskfall98
I'd actually be fine with zwerdjib as well.
I will happliy vote Zwerd if Dusk can not go through.
So that's not really a vote for him, but yeah.
Anyone who is interested in forum rp btw message me or nuxl we are trying to start a crew, promised to be way less tilting and I promise to be way less toxic!!
I hate smogon players and their terrible scummy playstyles
Bold words from someone who narrowly avoided a d2 lynch for the same reasons while ignoring pressure and baiting the wagon even harder
I hate smogon players and their terrible scummy playstyles
Bold words from someone who narrowly avoided a d2 lynch for the same reasons while ignoring pressure and baiting the wagon even harder
I would like to point out that I specifically said they'd "at least swap to it for the majority lynch" and you questioned whether they actually did
anyway the upside here is the lynch happening
considering there's 4 scum somewhere, some resistance to the turbo does not bother my thoughts of likelihood to flip scum
if anything the total lack of dusk resistance is more bothering
dan was a lurker lynch so it's not THAT shocking people aren't invested, plus he actually improved, even if I'm still very leery of it
At this point there is barely resistance to either of the two main wagon lynches and the resistance to other wagons are from claimed PRs
What do you even mean
// I hate this game.
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
// I hate this game.
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
// Actually.
##Unvote
##Vote: Duskfall98]/b]
Zeep being offline is a good look imo, his scum team would've pinged him to get on and vote me if he was scum by now. He's usually active in discordoh my god could you at least not DEFEND your counterwagon I'm trying to get you not lynched smh
Zeep being offline is a good look imo, his scum team would've pinged him to get on and vote me if he was scum by now. He's usually active in discord
Disquieted - there's links between Duskfall and Conq. Duskfall is below your null bar. Why not vote him? and absent, never mind.I -think- duskfull is town? i wouldn't bet my life on it or anything
Serela - are you positive Duskfall is town?
Did SB leave?
if dusk is scum he's also being really really bad at trying to survive
presented with his counterwagon, his opinion is "nah this guy is town but whatever i don't have a choice'
he's not even attempting to actually argue we lynch the other guy he's just being mad the whole time
yes he's mildly tilting but i don't really think he's the scum here
oh my god could you at least not DEFEND your counterwagon I'm trying to get you not lynched smh
Disquieted - there's links between Duskfall and Conq. Duskfall is below your null bar. Why not vote him? and absent, never mind.
Serela - are you positive Duskfall is town?
What's the point they will just wagon me again tomorrowimagine if zwerd ACTUALLY flips scum ok, just for a moment, p l e a s e, you know how town THAT'LL LOOK? PLEASE.
Serela - are you positive Duskfall is town?Answering this a second time; I ACTUALLY have a scumread on zwerdjib, like, a real one, not a consolidate to avoid no lynch one.
What the fire truck.DUDE NO >:T
Yeah I'll hammer Duskfall if you throw me this choice. Sigh.
What the fire truck.
Yeah I'll hammer Duskfall if you throw me this choice. Sigh.
imagine if zwerd ACTUALLY flips scum ok, just for a moment, p l e a s e, you know how town THAT'LL LOOK? PLEASE.
Answering this a second time; I ACTUALLY have a scumread on zwerdjib, like, a real one, not a consolidate to avoid no lynch one.
DUDE NO >:T
Neither of these wagons are good
Literally lmao
Serela would you do conq herehell no
Would anyone else do conq here
Serela would you do conq here
Would anyone else do conq here
Damage control for me at this point. Not happy. And I might not even be here, so consider this intent but someone else should probably hammer even if it's not what I want.
Damage control for me at this point. Not happy. And I might not even be here, so consider this intent but someone else should probably hammer even if it's not what I want.You don't need to hammer to avoid NL, we have tons of people here posting.
Everyone who said they would go to zeep over me is gonna try lynch zeep tomorrow btw if that wasn't obvious
You mean everyone on your wagon right LOL
yes
we don't move, they have to move, three of them already said they'd move for a majority lynch
wait
it's
not lylo? not even pseudo lylo? huh. i guess we only have 3 scum? Well at least I'm not AS bad for thinking all the town are town. ok yes gathering crumbs
also
##Vote zwerdjib
everything I said in EoD yesterday is still more or less true and when I look at the wagons all my most powerful townreads were on the zwerd wagon with literally everyone except conq on the other (zwerd doesn't count, obviously he'd vote not him)
Cuts:NNR I know it's tilting but please don't make 4 posts in a row about how mad you are at a dead person's attitude :S it just uh, toxifies the thread
Just to stress this point:(https://i.postimg.cc/NGbT7dRs/Iwanttobelieve.jpg)
Myself; Dormio and NNR are not confirmed Town. Do not take us being town as gospel. As multiple people have said; my LD1 selfvote could have been some crazy gambit; and Dormio/NNR could be lying about being Masons and just be scumbuds [The odds of this increase the longer they remain alive too; because you'd think scum would target 'semi-clears']
it's not in everyone's best interests to force the situation further and I would REALLY rather not No Lynch today which is liable to occur if only o4rfish is still viable in two hours before people won't moveI want to believe you a little less. "This was in your best interest" lines trigger me.
you'll understand later this was in your best interest please understand that I'm not the Serela who fakeclaimed cop to try to pull the nk on my second game, at this point I know what I'm doing >:C
[snip] Man if I could like, ever roll cop I'd probably just hit them n1 regardless of gamestate tbh and get that nightmare out of the way, too many losses to primsme d2 after my cop target prims died
I think I did roll cop or vig once but RL roared it's massive ugly head and I had to replace out like d1
well, let's see, the people who AREN'T potentially on the list:
*Zwerdjib and Raikaria for vaguely similar reasons (<3)
*Conq for very obvious reasons
*Prims because he DIED GOD DAMMIT (and uh I guess abu goes here too)
*Fabloo I would be very surprised to find out is scum at this point, not the strongest town read on here b/c it hasn't been long but I can't imagine I'm revisiting this evaluation anytime particularly soon
*Oh, me, it's me, I'm next :D
I'm not lynching o4rfish. I did that rereading overnight (especially because shadoweh flipped town ashfjahg;sfdhgsdfhsd), I also don't really think SB looks scummy at all.it was bolded in the original post, this was not done here for emphasis in the quote. was trying to make it obvious in case i died overnight before claiming anything about my role
[snips rest of post]
I want to believe you a little less. "This was in your best interest" lines trigger me.I was trying REALLY hard to get everyone to get off o4rfish without questioning the role shenanigans much because I was trying really hard to NOT get nightkilled for being the cop who's claiming results inthread. I hoped to come across as a governor (or whatever role stops lynches) who has a strong read and was being a bit of a dickbag because that's better than town's cop dying.
1. O4rfish (Rumia)Seven people left. Probably 4 scum. That means only three townies! And this is poe that, at least from my perspective is literally mod confirmed so that's pretty cool
3. Dormio (Ran Yakumo)
14. NekoNekoRex (Chen)
6. Serela (Koishi Komeiji)
7. sb (Sanae Kochiya)
9. Raikaria (Sunny Milk)
11. zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji)
12. Refa Disquieted (Reimu Hakurei)
13. ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika)
17. Niektory (Yukari Yakumo)
5. Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi)
Also I think the mafia would skip over the masons when d2 you were massively barking up the wrong tree and d3 you still weren't really doing any better. I mean my cop target is your main lynch priority so.In hindsight this doesn't read very clearly, I mean I have mod confirmation the person you and Dormio were mainly interested in lynching is Town.
Yes that's an important point here Raikaria
Zwerd is here. He's posting. He's responding. Yet he's only got a read on 2~3 living players. It's like, Nuxl/Refa/Dusk. Everyone was explicitly listed null in his d2 reads post, he said he'd improve that later, he never did. He waffled about on me a bit with a Raikaria sheep that turned into "well, serela's defending now, so, this is fine" and eventually just unvoting it without replacing his vote anywhere.
i appreciate that youve actually read through my posts unlike literally everyone else (which is something i agree with raikaria with like yes i exist even though im not the most motivated to play any forum mafia rn) but i just cant exactly find what you take issue with. you never provide examples. its like youre combining some of your actual read with a quick skim of my posts, and thats harmfulYou have a big reads post on d2 where you have like 2 townreads and null the rest of the game, and when it came to the wagons d2 you made it clear you didn't like voting them but would decide which one you thought was somewhat less townie for the sake of consolidation. You never really got a scumread on anyone until d3, but you didn't really mention anyone else except them, and then you drop that scumcase on duskfall to sheep Rai on me, which we have to tug reasoning out of you for, and then you give up and unvote without voting anyone (like, for example, your previous scumread) and vanish for the rest of the day. You still have no given opinion on basically the entire game, not even a townread. Actually your townreads and previous scumread are dead so there's literally no remaining opinions that I can recall :VV
as for the cop being a scum gambit, i think its mostly just a theory fueled by desperation and rage. the main argument in favor of serela is the crumbing, which is pretty much undeniable when i see the posts hes compiled and in hindsight they were the most obvious hints ive ever seen. i dont think this is a cop lie. though i guese mafia cop does exist...? are there 3p in this setup? thats an important question we should askum
I don't care about mechanical claims quite frankly cause I'm just absolutely shocked you're still giving a free town pass to a person who DIDNT EVEN fire truckING VOTE OR PUSH ANYONE YESTERDAY and a person who LITERALLY MADE UP strawberries TO VOTE OFF SOMEONE WHO PROMISED TO INTERACT WITH HIM AND STABBED HIM ANYWAYS.I assume you mean conq as the first person (eh conq could be scum, I don't -think- he is but i'm townreading most of the people who i don' thave modconfirm townreads on so it's certainly not unreasonable) but I'm not sure who the second is, names are helpful things
Serela if you've read a single one of my posts it should be brutally clear who I am talking about.Look no offense but we could use less people screaming their heads off in rage (we're already at 2 and 3/4ths of the players haven't posted today) and more people trying to participate in logical discussion. Please just give me a name.
wait strawberries
##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib
Also I still totally want to lynch Dan and am on board with that but I also very much think zwerd is scum
for the record I can't even remember half of my own posts
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (9): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, ,sb, Shadoweh, AbuHumaid
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (4): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, AbuHumaid, zwerdjib, Shadoweh, Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb, Niektory, Xinnidy
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (6): Shadoweh, zwerdjib, Niektory, Conqueror, Shadoweh, Fabloo, ActionDan, zwerdjib, NekoNekoRex, sb
O4rfish (Rumia) (1): NekoNekoRex, sb, Dormio Ergo Sum, NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): sb
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (7): ActionDan, Niektory, NekoNekoRex, O4rfish, sb, Niektory, Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0): sb, Serela, NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98
given the giant Mass of posts I honestly don't want to read before I started posting, not many yet. (Although I might go back and read some later when I'm feeling less fatigued)I never did get to come out with my pocket crumb
Putting it that way, I could see that being valid. I believe I stated strongly before my opinions on Nuxl prior to and during my vote on himSo it's a vote that might be incorrect without me reading the other half of the game I wasn't participating in, but for sure I thought what I had read was scummy, and reading more of his posts wouldn't make me think the initial ones were any less scummy.
On the other hand the meta part is the only part I admit I fire trucked up on, or might not have as clear as I initially did, mostly due to mis-reading. Not gonna refute that.
as for other reads, I'm mostly starting from when I started posting so not a lot yet. there is simply too much to read. i thought Dormio's vote on Oar felt like a pretty solid catch.
getting a result on sb now will clear you, Serela, and Dan
I'm claiming Not Being Vanilla
I will literally stop an o4rfish lynch don't make me do this
you're not getting any more info out of me than that right now so don't even ask
it's not in everyone's best interests to force the situation further and I would REALLY rather not No Lynch today which is liable to occur if only o4rfish is still viable in two hours before people won't move
you'll understand later this was in your best interest please understand that I'm not the Serela who fakeclaimed cop to try to pull the nk on my second game, at this point I know what I'm doing >:C
They have done absolutely nothing this gamehey smartbomb. im going to be fairly restrained here because i don't want to make this game any more unbearable than it is already. say this to my face and tell me you believe it, because it's complete bullstrawberries to say i've done nothing this game. my d1 and d2 dont just magically disappear just for the sake of argument. even though i did jack strawberries yesterday you could still tell from my posts who i was townreading. scumreading, not so much because yeah i pretty much stopped wanting to play on d3. it's partially why i wasn't so sure about duskfall anymore because he was on the same wavelength re: not wanting to play anymore. i was okay with a dan lynch and thought it would go ahead since it was the only wagon people were really talking about. i didnt make it back to the thread for oog reasons so that's why i wasnt voting at the end. anyway are you ever planning on responding to my responses to your case? or are you just going to keep ignoring my attempts to reach to me and say NYA NYA NYA EVERYTHING YOU DO IS SCUMMY? you are literally making up strawberries to push me right now.
You couldn't tell me who they're townreading or scumreading.
Can you?
You're saying I should vote for sb, which my gut agrees with. I don't understand how that would clear several people though.i imagine from associatives since sb pushed all 3 of you. it's sb so if he's mafia i have my doubts about how accurate it would be but it's a decent start.
Well time to digest some walls.
But Serela is right we should be placing votes around.
##Vote: Duskfall
Serela do you actually townread... the whole game?
Well in that case feel free to vote Duskfall!
Otherwise I really don't agree that mod ought to interfere but shurg
as for the cop being a scum gambit, i think its mostly just a theory fueled by desperation and rage. the main argument in favor of serela is the crumbing, which is pretty much undeniable when i see the posts hes compiled and in hindsight they were the most obvious hints ive ever seen. i dont think this is a cop lie. though i guese mafia cop does exist...? are there 3p in this setup? thats an important question we should ask
You're saying I should vote for sb, which my gut agrees with. I don't understand how that would clear several people though.Clearing you clears Serela, because his claim is easier to back up.
##vote: disquietedI think Refa's d1/d2 would be incredibly difficult to pull off as scum as I've commented several times (intense curiosity, lots of questioning, many novel lines of thought) and smartbomb's D3 was good as well. no comment on d4 other than it doesn't look like scum either, even in a vacuum apart from d1~3. 0/10 would never lynch
i wonder how much resistance there is to this. for some reason people have been ignoring this slot.
I don't believe that a town (Serela) would cop (Prims) night 1 over all of the lurkers and unknowns. Especially since (Serela) never actually mentions any real opinion of (Prims) at all during the entirety of day 1.Except for the opinion I stated of Prims d1 where I say I'm completely incapable of ever reading Prims and consider them n1 cop material. One thing I didn't consider admittedly was the likelihood of Good Player Prims being nk'd n1, but, no one really saw that coming in general, a few people thought he might be scum.
I should also mention here that (Serela) had (Serela)'s vote on (raikaria) for almost the entirety of day 1, and yet still felt the need to cop (Prims) over (raikaria). Or (ActionDan). Or (Niektory). Or (Xinnidy).Uh, by the end of d1, Raikaria was blatantly town. Did you forget that my Rai vote was pretty much a weak ed1 vote because I couldn't see anything better, and I clearly wasn't all that invested in it? (which in itself is slightly scummy, but, that's not relevant to the argument at hand)
During day 2, (Serela) even talks about how (Serela) has difficulty reading lurkers such as (ActionDan) in (Reply #1091) but doesn't use the tool at (Serela)'s disposal that literally tells (Serela) the alignment of these unreadables.Yeah I'd really rather just lynch the person who, at the time, was basically not playing the game, and save the cops for someone who's not liable to get themselves modkilled the next day.
On top of that, despite it being universally agreed that (Duskfall98)'s end of day 2 was weird as all hell, and (Serela) expressing this same opinion, (Serela) decides to cop (O4rfish) who nobody cared about outside of myself and (sb) at the time.Did... I... ever express this opinion about duskfall in any significant capacity?? Uh, I had a TOWN read on duskfall after some of his interactions d2. I explicitly said so. I'm really not sure where you're getting this from, Dormio.
It's really weird how early (Serela) is willing to out (Serela) given that the only people who were really pushing for (O4rfish) was myself and (sb).This is... also not true. I held out as long as I could until there was 3~4 votes on o4rfish with multiple people stating interest in lynching O4r as well. It looked very much like the day was going to end in an o4rfish lynch at that point. I really, really didn't want to claim stuff because I thought I'd be nk'd as a result, and... apparently was really strawberries at counting and thought we were already at 11 players and heading into lylo after a mislynch.
(Serela) also talks during day 3 about how (Serela) has a solid scumread on (zwerdjib), and yet (Serela) decides that (Serela) doesn't want to check (zwerdjib)'s alignment.Why am I going to waste a cop result on the one person I actually solidly think is scum as opposed to an unknown? Now, I can't argue much against "why didn't you cop dan/etc instead of masons" in any way that's actually solid, but simply put, NNR's entire game looked lurkscum and Dormio, while having a good d2, was tunnelling on my town cop result and his d3 was pretty lackluster. I thought it was veerrry possible you guys were actually scum, and as stated before, a 4p scum game actually makes mason gambit pretty good, because normally if it fails you've pretty much thrown the game already. In this case, there's still half the scumteam, and you probably won outright if it works. If I was right and you WERE scum, my cop result would probably be the ONLY thing stopping you two from easily steamrolling to a scum win. I'd still have been heavily suspicious of you two atm otherwise so I don't consider it a wasted result *Shrug*
It's really weird how early (Serela) is willing to out (Serela) given that the only people who were really pushing for (O4rfish) was myself and (sb).
This is... also not true. I held out as long as I could until there was 3~4 votes on o4rfish with multiple people stating interest in lynching O4r as well. It looked very much like the day was going to end in an o4rfish lynch at that point. I really, really didn't want to claim stuff because I thought I'd be nk'd as a result, and... apparently was really strawberries at counting and thought we were already at 11 players and heading into lylo after a mislynch.It was two hours before deadline and O4rfish was the biggest wagon (at 4 votes). So at least this part is believable.
And yet (Serela) survives the night and is not roleblocked either. This doesn't ring warning bells for (Playerbase)?It does.
define Statement111
{
(Serela)'s claim reeks and I hate it.
...
And yet (Serela) survives the night and is not roleblocked either. This doesn't ring warning bells for (Playerbase)?
In one post you have proven that you have no scumread. This vote on me isn't anywhere near a scumread, it's a feelvote, I spend the entire day pushing you yesterday and your read on my slot has ended in "I feel like nobody is looking at this guy". I'm OK as both alignments, but let's talk about the fact you're deeply familiar with both high-impact scumgames I've had, to the point where the only thing anyone talks about me is "wow this guy carried the mafia team by messaging 180 players every single day" or "wow this guy won the game as a serial killer with 175 players in the game". I'll call myself a complex character, yes? You have expressed none of that thought when evaluating me, you have not said my push is scummy or towny, you have decided NOT TO GIVE A READ.
Instead you draw back to Day 1 and Day 2. Let's ignore the fact that I have already complained about your Day 2 being narrow, cause that's not the point. That's nowhere NEAR the point. I'm saying that out of every post I've read since I've subbed in, you have done NOTHING but get annoyed at people playing mafia wrong without even giving them a read - apparently you don't scumread raikaria. So what's the point?! You have no reads, you spend all this time wallposting but in the end you seem to be incredibly NOT INTERESTED in doing anything towny, which is protect townreads and hunt for mafia.
I see none of that. You have a solve. It is the laziest solve I have ever seen, you have taken all three PRs, assumed they're all town, and their associates out of the equation and gone shrug, there's like a small team dissociation. Every. Single. Person in this game has got a hot scumread right now and you have absolutely nothing on Day 4.
You can't change that with 700 words either way. You literally admitted it in the same post. Your excuse is "wow mafia sucks", but you've literally spent 4000 words defending yourself and the fire in which you defend against me makes it very clear that you do NOT think mafia sucks (or you would've told me to get off your back for not solving cause mafia fire trucking sucks) implying that there's significant cognitive dissonance here. So. What is the deal.
I also agree with smartbomb but I think Conq is so obviously scum that he's better saved for later.smh nnr. throw me a bone here and tell me why you think that.
I think Refa's d1/d2 would be incredibly difficult to pull off as scum as I've commented several times (intense curiosity, lots of questioning, many novel lines of thought) and smartbomb's D3 was good as well. no comment on d4 other than it doesn't look like scum either, even in a vacuum apart from d1~3. 0/10 would never lynchwhat about his pushes on me, do you agree with them? if people are just going to run with this then i would rather be mislynched now to save me the trouble.
Today is Day 4
Dont have to, not while youre already writing yourself into a corner like a desperate scumbag with nothing left to losei'm desperate but not a scumbag. I'd like you to read it anyway because it's going to become relevant sooner or later.
agree with smartbomboh wait i missed this bit from your post earlier.
people need to stop giving free passes to people who have been active while doing nothing all game
Zeep being offline is towny
feel free to slide into my dms for tips if you are town(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/630344217025314816.gif)(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/630344217025314816.gif)(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/630344217025314816.gif)(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/630344217025314816.gif)(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/630344217025314816.gif)
i'm desperate but not a scumbag.
This doesn't sound right. Why would town Conq be desperate right now?Desperate because people are already writing me off as scum! Feels like anything I say at this point is pointless until I flip so I'm just trying to set up so people can read what I've said after that happens.
His d2 play feels stilted (the PR gambit and sudden switch off Shadoweh), but it finally crumbles out from under his feet when you realize he was laying the tracks towards townies no matter what.btw i've seen a dozen theories about why i switched off shadoweh d2 and you're all wrong. i switched off shadoweh d2 because i like playing with shadoweh so i was willing to give her another chance after she showed up.
What's very interesting is that despite the fact that zgowkfmsjajgktkwkcng has had loads of criticism lobbied against him every single day, neither Conq nor sb has been willing to vote him even onceactually you know what? I'll take your bait
I'm sorry Conq, but I don't think it's even remotely viable that smartbomb can be scum. A scum smartbomb has absolutely nothing to gain by pushing a lynch on you. He would be far, far better off doing exactly what you have, that is to say, absolutely nothing.By that metric a scum!me has nothing to gain from trying to push a lynch on smartbomb. Scum push whoever they want to get through the game, whether to protect their buddies or just get another valuable mislynch. Lets say smartbomb is scum with sb and two lurkers, let's say zeep and dan for the sake of this argument. The lynch was barreling towards dan on d3 so he tried to get a wagon on me instead while getting in some distancing with sb. Not really an impossible concept.
The only reason I or probably most of town even considered voting you or sb is because he's actually pushing it, because otherwise I'd be tunneling Serela or zj5jnewj-t123jt really damn hard. Hell, you and sb can more than stand to lynch him too, he's done nothing all game and I'd have considered him the token scum sacrificial bus.
E: You're proving my point, conq.
What's your game plan after lynching sb and Zork II: The Wizard of Frobozz? You're going to run out of friends, and there'll still be two lynches left to suffer through after that?I mean, assuming those two flip scum, I'm still pretty sure it's smartbomb + 1. Not sure who the last would be (presumably dan or niek, either works nicely), but re:smartbomb - that's why I wanted that resolved today. Everyone who takes his side over me can lynch me today and then you know where to go tomorrow. We're going to have to get to this anyway.
We're going to have to get to this anyway.And it's better to do that now while more townies are still alive.
listen, your numerous names for me are interesting, but i only have oneI can't be arsed to remember how to spell gibberish names Invader Zim, sorry.
Just to stress this point:
Myself; Dormio and NNR are not confirmed Town. Do not take us being town as gospel. As multiple people have said; my LD1 selfvote could have been some crazy gambit; and Dormio/NNR could be lying about being Masons and just be scumbuds [The odds of this increase the longer they remain alive too; because you'd think scum would target 'semi-clears']
##Unvote: Duskfall98
##Vote: Serela
JUST SAY IT. If you're town can you even guarantee you'll be alive tomorrow?
Yes.
@others: How could it happen? Is it likely given
If Conq can get one thing right it's mechanics, and there are four scum, likely.
We have two mislynches left, I believe, assuming nothing strange happens.
team of Serela/Dormio/NNR/Oarfishthis would be the most hilarious gambit-heavy bullstrawberries ever
Serela would you do conq here
Would anyone else do conq here
Neither of these wagons are good
Literally lmao
This over Duskfall? Why?
Oh boy deadlock
Let's try something
##Vote: Zwerdijb
Who actually prefers this
i don't really want it to happen because i already said why so so many times but i haven't fact checked but still feel i'm correct here
Not enough is going to vote conq or sb here and this consolidation is so late to DL. Not voting zwer here myself unless it needs to be done which makes me think I'm deadlocking the vote elsewhere
i dont really mega like the major two wagons but again hostage situation
conq or sb would be spicy for the purpose of "see who actually does it" but nobody will lol
we are not no lynching ever
i wanted to yolo vote conq or niek to see who'd take it but doesn't seem likely given current mood lmfao
Here's a sort of thought bubble thing for everybody and I hope someone makes sense out of this in my 3 AM deprived brain.
For scum, in a plurality game, the amount of people you need to convince is relatively low to push a lynch you want depending on the day. In this instance, the amount of "viable" lynches per day increases in comparison to a majority game where it seems like you need to make half the game remove the people you want.
I guess this suggests scum should be townreading players in question and then nightkilling them? So in this instance, I don't really know why scum!smartbomb goes and makes a case on Conq since it seems absolutely impossible for it to flip where there are easier routes available. I don't really know why o4rfish goes and sheeps the vote on Conq. It's so weird. Maybe the number is too high for it to succeed? I don't know why Niek voted Duskfall of all people, and Dan's vote isn't really doing anything given deadline is soon.
Wrt O4rfish, their thing to Abu seemed completely genuine and nobody got back to me if they could fake this emotion on page 8 in their scumgame , I think. But I can't tell if their posts are completely uncoachable anymore or if I'm just biting on the recent amount of casing by the people I actually do townread.
The votes being split is likely concerning. I kind of want to give in and vote dan, because his only streak of posts is because he's gotten pressure, but that feels incorrect...? Because the only resistance is Smartbomb...? honestly at this point I don't really give a damn anymore and I just want to see how people react.
##Vote: O4rfish. I even typed this out and it feels wrong. My vote is still malleable and I'll be here at deadline. Will vote Dan if I need to, possibly begrudgingly even do Conq.
just going to ignore people already confirmed/role confirmed alignment wise
zwer's early pages were why i townread him, lot of wish for him to jump in and start doing stuff. his reaction to dormio's thing on shadoweh on page 3 wrt overthinking was my exact reaction at the time. lot of weird logic that felt towny to me given i know a player who does this on my home site.
conq's presence on those pages were something i townread early but on a reread i'm whatever ebout it now
o4rfish's vote on me on page 8 uses disgustingly bad logic that i townread initially because sb said they were a kind of player who did this stuff pretty often but given their d2 i don't really know what my read on them is, it kind of fizzled out but i'm kind of like this for a lot of the game so far.
the anger felt genuine but i kind of want to ask other people if they think it could be fake in this instance.
intriguingly 1. their scumreads are all unaccurate (i'm kind of confident in my zwer read to say that) and 2. the only unknown in their townreads is conq
refa's page 8 is really good and felt familiar to danganronpa i played with a year ago. raikaria's page 8 i disagree with on the premise of meta but i think it's irrelevant at this point of time
until page 9: sb just played a scumgame on smogon where he kind of didn't really try and contributed more in terms of game theory and thread mechanics as opposed to actually presenting reads: in this game he's more right to the point and that should suggest he breaks town (or it's extremely good adaptation which well, this pl is probably a lot better so it'd make sense ig)
I feel like I should have thoughts on 12-14. I don't really have that. Serela's thing on shifting vote people noted seemed off but I didn't really get pinged one way or another for it. I think conq's reentrance post and queries was fine here and his persistent points of pressure felt ok. I don't know if conq is able to replicate this kind of stuff as scum. Can anybody with more experience playing with scum!conq enlighten me here?
#459 dusk was a good town ping, same with the other post he made about abu openwolfing later. forceful, cocky pressure and not being scared is a good town indicator for him.
ftr this is almost accurate enough where he's dmed me about how hard it is for him to read me like a month before this game started
#619 oarfish made me feel like it was genuine thought at the time so i didn't really want to touch it since then
dan's vote felt kind of strange, i also thought this about nnr haha so lol. on a reread conq's townread on me is kind of curious and i'm not exactly sure why he's having it. everybody jumping on abu's nuts on vig claim seems too good to be too (notably these 3)
i dont remember where it was but
@tommy have you ever done an ordered list like 654 before? as town. 722 is a really clean adaptation if he's scum.
#774 niek's vote is garbage i think i keep saying this
i kinda shared tommy's #797 at the time but was too scared to say it lmao, especially their string of posts on the page after were pretty curious
Zwer's #846 is strange as fire truck as scum to do especially because nobody else saw it but him.
Raik selfvote felt towny and would've been really ballsy as scum to do.
I actually expected Conq to be the nightkill D1 so was kind of surprised he wasn't. Prims wanted abu/niek/o4rfish/shadoweh/raik at the end of D1, notably did not townread SB but townleaned Dusk/Conq/Zwer. If both Dusk/Conq are scum seems kind of like a purposeless kill for them but I guess everybody townread both near the end of the day so I guess they didn't particularly care.
------ Day 2 ------
Something felt off about NNR and sb crossvoting then going to consolidate on o4rfish? I didn't think sb's mistake looked scummy but I don't understand why he dropped his entire vote with it.
Refa's points of pressure are good here and only really solidifies my read here.
#1069 @conq did you stop townreading me after D1? what happened to your high confidence townread -> solving my slot?
SB #1072 empower in a noc game lol
tommy #1079 I don't think I'm going to play a NOC game for a while so I'll just reveal my cards now- what I meant on my personal tell during later D2: scum!duskfall never pushes people for slips on smogon. On smogon he's tried to push someone for perspective slips or other wording slips in 3 different town games and 1 jester game but has never done stuff like that as scum. He's been defensive about slips as scum but he's never used it as a point of pressure. On mafia451, he's tried to push people on slips twice as town, and 0 as scum.
Niek #1153: very strange, he keeps entering with unusual conclusions since nobody knows where he's getting his introductions from u know
sb #1253: agree with what i said regarding the NK from shadoweh, as if it's acting under assumption shadoweh had control of that kill which is... likely not true given their thread equity post d1?
my reaction to serela #1400: i don't mind revealing my cards here too. i thought Serela was signaling that them and niek were masons and i think only Fabloo caught onto that given their discussion to me on the next page. I don't think this means anything in particular but the wagon reactively seemed genuine and so did Serela's reaction a tad.
Can't really parse this eod all too well but AD's entrance was strange to me
Fabloo was keen on pushing Conq/Dusk/NNR/AD slots early D2 and thought that Dusk was leading wagon. I don't really think Conq and Dusk are ever partners here, seems unnecessary for Conq to risk Dusk in this position at the end of D2 (+ certain D1 interactions that pinged me otherwise).
Refa slot/Zwer: pretty confident townreads here and don't really think I'm smoked.
Raikaria is probably town based on self vote:(even if the self vote didn't really matter imo, the tone behind it felt fairly genuine in addition to their subsequent anger following various cases. there was an instance in a game a couple years back where they self voted for the sake of town as well which is why i asked about meta)
I kind of skipped over Serela's posts the most this game and I don't know why. Don't really scumread them and am inclined to sheep Prims' townread on them. Biggest thing was their presence for the shadoweh swap which felt good at heart but I doubt that's enough. Will do a more cursory look when my eyes aren't killing me, this is the last thing I typed.
O4rfish's posts have changed every day which seems absolutely impossible to work with in a scumteam, but I guess that all that matters for their slot is really their vote of which uh, they've hit rown both times, but at least their D2 vote was consistent? Abu vote kind of makes sense even though it wasn't justified- in all actuality their tone to abu telling him to actually do some strawberries to save his own life felt genuine in addition to their anger D1. Though I think their slot is constantly being scrutinized which almost makes me feel like I'm wrong somewhere in making this read. I think them getting an early wagon from two crossvoting slots on d2 was strange but given the proceeding claims I guess I can't really look into it all that much. Shame NNR is actually conf mainly because we can't really get sb's read on why exactly he consolidated with someone he just cased on the previous page? If their tone is fakable it makes the slot worse but I'm so fuzzy here. btw there was a reason I wanted to sheep Dormio but it's not safe to talk about it
sb's posts have felt fine in the sense that there's a notable difference between the last scumgame they played on smogon and this one in regards to approaching the main points at hand + pointing out people. There are numerous applications of incorrect logic (namely D2: empower fear, shadoweh dictating NK, entire interaction with NNR's slot on the first few pages) that are a tad awkward and I still can't really bring it within me to townread him. Maybe it's because he's felt toneless and maybe that's a norm thing for him. Dunno
i love tommy but i think i'm losing faith in what he's doing but i think his aggression + slip thing i mentioned earlier should point to his favor even though i don't really have the handgun apricity/hal to back me up here, so i'm more of a mic piece that isn't connected to a speaker. a little frozen in how to verbalize any confidence here in addition that i don't exactly want to handwave any development on him. gun to head think i should be townreading him here though or at least he's out of poe vicinity but there's a nonzero chance i'm wrong
i townread conq d1 bc of his slot pressure in addition to his brazy gambit d2, but maybe it's because i'm inspired by the recent case that there are a few oddities: notably his read on me circulated between d1 and d2 and not exactly sure why, and Fabloo did kind of want them offed which is sort of telling given I expected him to be in NK contention during both days(maybe less so D2). His reaction to Raikaria today felt a bit strange too- don't know why anyone would reconsider raik ever. The gambit in general probably doesn't mean much if there's no risk to outing it but at the time I liked it. I don't hate his posts and his pressure Felt good but I think I'm open to consider a point of reevaluation.
Niek has noticable logic jumps that make me a bit eerie around this slot since it's hard to know how exactly he got to the points he did and I don't know if he just doesn't know himself or doesn't care to show up in thread and explain it...? Or is too stiff to not get caught out? I'm not sure.
Dan I kind of skipped over his posts during D1 for the most part. His ISO doesn't really strike me as anything and I was kind of bothered by his vote on Abu D1. I have no idea what to make of his progression because it seems like his entrances on prior days are less cohesive than today; and his final vote on both days seem to differ from what he wants to do early on in the day, and while I can say it's bad progression it's harder to tell because he just isn't consistently here to update his reads live. His recent post disputing the modspew didn't feel like it produced cohesive thought and I don't know what to make of it considering it seems like his play here is so much different than on 451 (site cultures, I guess). Potential confbias answer is expanding the lynch pool rofl
this is not ordered and is more like a thought dump
Maybe the mentality between consolidating wagons is too dangerous and no idea how to oppose it. Still wish we had plur though xD
It's funny that I typed all this and I still want to do Niek most of all. Maybe there's something wrong with me.
I'm pretty sure the scumteam thought Serela was a governor, not a cop. It's really the only thing that makes sense as to why he didn't die. This is probably also why sb isn't showing up because he's incredibly tilted at the fact that Kilga put a cop and a vig and masons in the game and the scumteam probably has... I'd have to guess a roleblocker maybe, tops. So after three mislynches we're still favoured to win. Take that as a mafia member; how mad would you be that town has done nothing right and are yet still favoured to win?That's why I have a bad feeling about this. It looks too simple. It suggests one of our assumptions might be wrong.
I'm gonna be real after Tommy flipped town while playing like that my motivation to play the game just died.Yeah, Tommy "why am I always wagoned" Duskfall. "You can't townread me confidently! I'm the best scum player mwahaha!" was an insult to injury.
Doing absolutely nothing gets you lynched, there's no scum benefit it in because you cede control of the lynch and people don't town read you, and on top of that people really like lynching people who aren't there and talking.Sure, it's bad to do as scum, but terrible to do as town. If we assume both you and zwerdjib are town, then your lack of votes yesterday meant we needed unanimous remaining town votes to lynch scum. (or bussing, but we all know there are no buses in Gensokyo)
Just going to put my final reads that was in reply to Shadoweh before the hammer (and changed a lot after the hammer TBH, for one it doesn't have her at the top).
DON'T WANT TO LYNCH
Dormio
NNR
Oarfish
Raikaria
Nuxl
Duskfall
MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT
Zwerd
Serela
THESE PEOPLE ARE 100% SCUM AFTER THESE NIGHTKILLS PUSH THE fire truck OUT OF THEM
SB
Conqueror
NON ENTITIES
ActionDan
Niektory
Okay, see you later.
That's why I have a bad feeling about this. It looks too simple. It suggests one of our assumptions might be wrong.
What if Prims was killed to provide cover for Serela, so he could say "I was investigating him, totally not shooting him!" But breadcrumbing his nightkill... nah, that's too crazy.
Yeah, Tommy "why am I always wagoned" Duskfall. "You can't townread me confidently! I'm the best scum player mwahaha!" was an insult to injury.
I mean whoever's the town in the group should feel ashamed tbh.
Continuing this game is difficult knowing Serela will fulfill her Ultimate Destiny and complete the Eldest Elite Prophecy to throw the game at LYLO once moreRight after this Disquieted votes O4rfish and Serela drops his bomb. THE PLOT THICKENS
query (Playerbase)
{
cout <<(unvote)
cout <<(scum)+(zwerdjib)
}
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
I don't really care to defend myself from cases like "SB has had bad scumreads in a game where we have only mislynched town" (despite NNR's scumreads being similarly strawberries) and "SB has done nothing, if you ignore everything in their posts". Maybe smartbomb is scum for it? I dunno though, Refa's subout seemed townie. If I get lynched though, don't just turbo Conq tomorrow for the exact same strawberries that I'm being blamed for.weren't you suspecting me yesterday? you agreed with smartbomb's case on me lol, what happened with that?
Sure, it's bad to do as scum, but terrible to do as town. If we assume both you and zwerdjib are town, then your lack of votes yesterday meant we needed unanimous remaining town votes to lynch scum. (or bussing, but we all know there are no buses in Gensokyo)I will concede I'm not having the best game right now, yes. Although when I left it looked like Dan was going to get lynched easily without my vote. Despite what people in this game have said about no lynches and majority, we played on this site for a good number of years with maj lynch only and fairly low volume, and no lynch still only happened a handful of times. i've sat out on lynches while not voting in past games when it looked like there was wide consensus for a lynch, this isn't something that i only did in this game. although in this game it was more because i missed out on deadline than anything else. but that's for reasons outside the game.
what happened there
Also are you serious. Come on dude.
zwerd... literally not even voting his counterwagon (which he has a full one, somehow)... i don't even
and sb isn't exactly
doing any better here
i swear to god if either of you people flip town @_@
I'm pretty sure the scumteam thought Serela was a governor, not a cop. It's really the only thing that makes sense as to why he didn't die. This is probably also why sb isn't showing up because he's incredibly tilted at the fact that Kilga put a cop and a vig and masons in the game and the scumteam probably has... I'd have to guess a roleblocker maybe, tops. So after three mislynches we're still favoured to win. Take that as a mafia member; how mad would you be that town has done nothing right and are yet still favoured to win?
It was pretty clear sb didn't believe Serela was any sort of information role; whether you choose to believe that's TMI that sb knows more of the setup than he's letting on is up to you. But yeah, he was definitely caught off-guard by Serela's claim and it shows pretty clearly and is why I'm theorizing this in the first place.
this was 12 hours ago. Things that have happened: Conq saying he won't be around and doesn't care whether it's sb or zwerd. Which is a sentiment I mirror at this point tbh since sb has stopped playing entirely.
However we should also make use of the time we have, so I'm not moving my lynch vote right now due to L-1/L-2.
motk mafia, where the scum is scummy but the town have stopped playing
Oh its apparently "mobile support"
Cant say im a fan kilga
End of Day 4 Vote Count
sb (Sanae Kochiya): NekoNekoRex, Disquieted, Conqueror, Conqueror, O4rfish, Serela, Serela, Raikaria
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (3): Serela, Serela, Conqueror, sb, Dormio Ergo Sum, Niektory, Raikaria, Serela
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria
O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (0):
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): NekoNekoRex, NekoNekoRex, Dormio Ergo Sum
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Disquieted (Reimu Hakurei) (0): Conqueror
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0): Raikaria
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0):
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (2): zwerdjib, ActionDan
sb, playing Sanae Kochiya, Mafia Roleblocker, was lynched!
Thank you Raikaria for being so unaware of the game state you still think Disquieted is alive, it only helps to prove your towniness
"It is truly a shame so many people have left."
"Truly."
"Yes, truly a shame."
sb, playing Sanae Kochiya, Mafia Roleblocker, was lynched!
Disquieted (Reimu Hakurei), a Vanilla Townie, was killed overnight!
@ conq i would have written notes were i not in class, but the gist of my reads list
me (this section is townlocks and a joke in this context)
refa
nuxl
you (Conqueror)
dormio
prims (?)
almost everyone else
i feel like theres someone i forgot that definitely goes here dankpuff
<n/a>
(if the structure seems off, i have townlocks and scumlocks, as well as townleans and scumleans, so account for those)
My townread on Shadoweh being ignored and her getting lynched really is like old times huh? >.> At least this one wasn't in LYLO.Zeep's priority is duskfall, and Conq's are duskfall with some pressure on Dan.
I thought about this overnight and I want to lynch in hard lurkers today (Dan/Niek) because their slots are going to be a huge question mark going forwards and I don't think we'll be able to solve them with roles considering we already have vig/masons.
##Vote: ActionDan
I think their end of phase yesterday was really weird. Their D1 was actually alright but it feels like he just flipped a switch and forgot all about it? His entire progression D1 seemed to imply they were good with lynching Shadoweh and Duskfall was null, but then they went and voted for Duskfall yesterday? I don't know how much this means since Shadoweh flipped town and Duskfall is the unknown but I can't wrap my head around it. Dan, what changed during D2 to make you want to vote for Duskfall instead of Shadoweh? I know you said the read changed but like... why? It's so out of nowhere.
I think that Niek is getting too much of a free pass for being a newbie, and nobody is talking about it despite nobody townreading him. The way the wagon built and dissolved so suddenly yesterday was kinda spooky and he feels like he's playing really safe. They say its a personality thing but it kinda reminds me of my first scumgame where I was talking a lot about game mechanic stuff to feel helpful and struggled to formulate fake reads.
I was townreading Duskfall initially because I thought their reaction to being threatened to be vig was most likely a town PR (because scum would just roleblock vig!Abu probably and it didn't feel like VT on). Then the Masons claimed and I was less sure, and then they claimed Vanilla. I'm really confused on like, how they didn't claim to be scumreading Shadoweh when they were effectively listing reasons to scumread her at phase end. I wanna see what they think of their wagon today now that Shadoweh has flipped town because I'm not happy.
I still don't like Oarfish, they stopped scumhunting yesterday as soon as the heat was off of them. Their scumreads yesterday were reactionary aside from Shadoweh, who they were scumreading for not meeting their expectations of being Shadoweh on D1? But they also said that Shadoweh's D2 posts were better so it confuses me that they still listed them as a scumread without properly bridging the gap between this. I can see why they would vote them over Duskfall in the end of the day still, but they just popped a vote and vanished.
I hope Zeep posts more like he said he would, but his end of phase votechange felt like he'd actually been convinced to move, and so I feel a bit better about him.
Serela why are you worried about Nuxl right now? I uh, don't share your paranoia aside from "maybe he could've been shot by now as universal townread" but I think scum would probably be more scared of Fabloo last night too.
@Conq The voteswitches here, here and here are what I'm talking about. I didn't see why you'd vote Niek to try and make them post and just... not comment about Niek posting right after you voted them (weird circumstance) when you unvoted to go back to Shadoweh. I know that I asked you about this before and you just said they were fine but... Idk, I figured there would be something more to it. Changing to vote Duskfall over Shadoweh again a few hours later felt better justified, but also really scattered? Like you didn't care that much where your vote actually was.
Also I don't think you'd take a case you disagree with lying down but honestly I was starting to get the same vibes I did from you in TPP where you thunderdomed the fire truck out of me and Refa and was really confused because it seemed out of place. Still am confused, kinda. I don't get that vibe from your latest posts though and I'm not sure what that means?
Wrt Execution : "I'm still sorting my reads on other players out so don't rush hammer yet" or something other than just "yeah, don't hammer guys even though Shadoweh is definitely absolutely scum".
Conq is in this weird place now where smartbomb's case is genuinely good and there are some oddities (see my other recent posts) but overall his gameplay is strong in a way that I just can't feel confident about lynching it. It feels like he's genuinely frustrated with the game and that makes sense after Shadoweh flipped town for Conq here I think? It looks like he genuinely beleives in his defense which is a point in his favour and I can't reconcile my read on him properly. I'm kind of uncomfortable but not willing to lynch here today I think.hmmmmmmmm. He definitely wanted to lynch Dan. Dan was in a spot where bussing wasn't out of the question and he wanted niek gone sooner or later. Interesting that's all the three people we're evaluating here, and I'd say it points more to a scumteam with Conq in it compared to otherwise where he's bussing both buddies as his top lynches past universal decent lynch option o4rfish.
In conclusion? fire truck mafia honestly. I still think in spite of Duskfall weirdness that Dan is the most revealing lynch with a good chance of flipping scum. Oarfish lynch is still good, Conq and Duskfall are weird question marks and Niek is a scummier question mark.
Quote from: Duskfall98 on March 15, 2020, 07:04:51 PM ----- Is anyone having funlmao niek <3
Define "fun".
We have less than 2.5 hours. Oarfish is my backup lynch if Dan is not possible and the others I'm kinda less comfortable with.sb -really- wants to lynch dan. tbf dan's a pretty decent easy-to-justify-easy-bus-cred lynch option tho. i guess it's neutral towards dan alignment?
Niek am I actually invisible?this last sentence is kind of hilarious to read right now
We don't know what role Serela has and we don't know the alignment of that role. We also don't know the role of any of the mafia members.
Duskfall I have no idea what you're trying to say with that last part but why does scum!SB bus scum!Dan today?
Hint: I'm less confident than before because Dan's posts have been getting better.yeah this is starting to look like SB backing off his scumbuddy, I think it'd be very easy for dan as a mislynch to be a full speed ahead wagon even if he suddenly made some ok posts after being gone nearly the whole game
Nobody would give me cred for bussing scum!Dan lol. Dormio already made a post on me earlier in the game about how I've bussed in past games and people haven't wanted to townread me at all here anyway except for Serela, and that's all game long.
Was the other part of your post supposed to be me setting up your lynch tomorrow or something?
End of Day 3 Vote Countthis isn't as helpful as i hoped it'd be.
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (7): ActionDan, Niektory, NekoNekoRex, O4rfish, sb, Niektory, Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (3): Serela, Raikaria, Nuxl, Duskfall98, Dormio Ergo Sum
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (1): Disquieted, Duskfall98, Disquieted
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria, Nuxl, NekoNekoRex, Disquieted
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Raikaria, Duskfall98, zwerdjib, Raikaria, Niektory
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0): sb, Serela, NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Raikaria, Disquieted, O4rfish, Disquieted
Not voting (2): Conqueror, zwerdjib
1. O4rfish (Rumia)
3. Dormio (Ran Yakumo)
5. Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi)
6. Serela (Koishi Komeiji)
9. Raikaria (Sunny Milk)
13. ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika)
17. Niektory (Yukari Yakumo)
2 scum left, only three probable suspects...
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria, Nuxl, NekoNekoRex, Disquietedwell I GUESS scum wasn't -actively- bussing o4rfish if he's a godfather...? scum!sb just kind of immediately giving up reads way more like "town solved the game through roles and we're practically guaranteed to lose now, f this" than roleplaying defeatism purely to sell o4rfish being fake town
Ridiculous. The object of this game can't be overshadowed by dancing around at the end.
i also hate to say it but o4rfish could realistically be a godfather
i hate saying this because there's not much for evaluating their play
actually nevermind, they were the de facto mislynch for d3 being pushed by scum until I was like "get the f out with that" and scum would probably have nightkilled me by now just to 'modconfirm' how o4rfish is totally confirmed town, so that's probably NOT the case
End of Day 3 Vote Count
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria, Nuxl, NekoNekoRex, Disquieted
Ontop of having to actually defend targets. I think overall they weren't that bad although I definitely agree masons and me should have been docced earlier, but, when you look at the nightkills that actually occurred, o4rfish's logic in some way apparently was closer to success than our suggestions would've been :VV WELP??
If anything that weird logic lineup is a very hazy line supporting o4r scum I guess, but, really, I think it's more believable with what we already know about the setup that kilga just figured the two faction's power somehow balanced out and actually put the doc in, than it is that scum!o4rfish decided to claim a doc over nothing. It also sort of balances out how the vig removes a town mislynch with numbers...??
that being said I guess you can argue o4rfish as scum wanted the refuge in sheer audacity to stack ontop of being copped but i really just don't think that's likely when I was already evaluating o4r!scum and completely dismissing it...
Yeah, when it comes to niektory, like... they're new, that's fine, but they've been low-presence very consistently all gameelaboration, like
I think it can realistically be town
I also hope Dormio, in the case he's alive tomorrow (which is completely possible), doesn't snap vote without any thought again.while this can be a thing, at the same time
So can somebody explain to me why we're dragging this day phase on for this meaningless drivel?At least there's a fair chance it's the last one so you won't suffer much longer.
define Statement123
{
So can somebody explain to me why we're dragging this day phase on for this meaningless drivel?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement123)
return (Hammer)
}
CONQ IS A BULLYall i wanted to do was get you to play but you had to go and get yourself lynched even after i gave you a lifeline with the fake track, gosh
Just going to put my final reads that was in reply to Shadoweh before the hammer (and changed a lot after the hammer TBH, for one it doesn't have her at the top).
DON'T WANT TO LYNCH
Dormio
NNR
Oarfish
Raikaria
Nuxl
Duskfall
MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT
Zwerd
Serela
THESE PEOPLE ARE 100% SCUM AFTER THESE NIGHTKILLS PUSH THE fire truck OUT OF THEM
SB
Conqueror
NON ENTITIES
ActionDan
Niektory
Okay, see you later.
Should have just sheeped me TBH.Dude we were so glad you replaced out with that readslist but then smartbomb comes in with the same reads
"Can you respond to my inquiries on page 18?"I never want to play a 17P game again, but that being said, I'd be up for joining another less huge game
This should be illegal to unironically say on Day 1
I'm starting to think I did something terribly wrong and thought 'serela sounds normal so he's town' when I might be used to psychotic EiMM serela ie closer to his scum meta XDPSYCHOTIC EIMM SERELA