how do i like posts on this site
is there a way to stalk someone's activity on this site
is there a way i can know who specifically is currently viewing this thread
oop I completely didn't consider this might be an issue
When voting and unvoting, please use the syntax ##Vote: {name} and ##Unvote: {name}. It makes it easier to count votes for the purposes of updating the vote count!
I hardclaim town. Now you can't possibly scumread me or vote me.
Checkmate, noobs.
I hardclaim town. Now you can't possibly scumread me or vote me.SO NANOK-wait, I'm not Rumia...
Just stalk them on discord and other sites instead, ez.
##vote: shadoweh let's just get this over with >:)
Can I add you on Linkedin?
do we need to unvote before shifting vote?Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
do we need to unvote before shifting vote?
(translator's note:So nanoka=Is that so?)
I must remember to never ever edit my posts because mafia. We don't want a repeat of... the incident
Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
I would prefer it for the sake of completeness, if possible.
(translator's note:So nanoka=Is that so?)
I must remember to never ever edit my posts because mafia. We don't want a repeat of... the incident
Technically yes. Although it's mainly to make the mod's job easier. Also I forgot to put the name in my unvote, sorry. If you forgot, Kilga, I was trying to poison myself. :)
(god why after posting does it not just bring me to my post instead of the forum)theres an option for this actually
Mafia in general is something you don't want to touch ever again.
theres an option for this actually
this is true. however a certain goat invited me to this gameSame, I was invited by a certain cutest cutie ever.
god help me if he flakes on me like he did when he invited me to play 451
Same, I was invited by a certain cutest cutie ever.
Dusk flakes? He was pretty active the few games I played with him on MU.
int scum =##Vote: (User);
define alignment(Shadoweh)
{
// Why the hell did I decide to do this?
// Is the above comment referring to joining mafia or typing like this?
if (Shadoweh)
cout <<"scum"
}
##Vote: Shadoweh
My new computer is dead on arrival. This sub-par tea ontop of that has driven me into a deep depression from what I fear I may never return. I'm going to write a sad letter to the seller as I spice my tea with lye.Quick, un-uncancel the other to the other computer! All hope is not lost yet Celery! And you might not even modkill yourself by editing a post.
##Vote:Serela
Vote Count 1.1
O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (1): Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (3): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (1): Shadoweh
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Serela
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (1): Xinnidy
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (1): Serela
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (1): AbuHumaid
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (1): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0):
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (1): Nuxl
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0):
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (6): O4rfish, Prims, Refa, NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98, Niektory
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have a little over 3 days (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
// The great thing about this post restriction is that I can kind of cheat by just putting comments everywhere.
// But, of course, I refuse.
// I also realized that I can't phone post while at work due to this. Alas.
define Question2
{
The fact that Shadoweh has a small wagon growing on her, and that there are 16 other available players to vote, she picks the person that first voted for her seems suspicious to me.
}
define Question3
{
To be more specific, I believe that it is a subconsious OMGUS vote which betrays a scum mindset.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question2)
ask (Question3)
}
define Question4
{
So what do you propose in lieu of my theory?
}
define Question5
{
Or are you fine with being lethargic and maintaining the RVS?
}
Query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question4)
ask (Question5)
}
int unvote =##Unvote
define Question6
{
How is voting for someone who has yet to make a post "making content"?
}
define Question7
{
So you're effectively trying to table my discussion of Shadoweh's vote by dismissing it for her and replacing it with what is, at best, a lurker prod?
}
define Alignment(zwerdjib)
{
if (zwerdijb)
cout <<"unvote""scum"
}
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
// Fixed a formatting error.
Need to figure out how to make pms shoot me an email
Im here
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
sucks to be one of the first six then doesnt it
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
What a lovely Day, we're all just throwing our votes away~
I have nowhere for my vote to stay, so a dice game I shall play
A 2; they say
Do not expect me to keep this up all day
##Vote: Prims
ive no ides but for what its worth i am now inclined to lynch shadoweh
im joking of course
##unvote refa
##vote shadoweh
um... do you accept negatives?
i did wanna spark a discussion though, and i was not disappointed
how do you get to idle out of the game on smogon and then get to sit here spamming refresh
i figured that's my job
simple: i get email notifs for this game
i think youre just overthinking this my friend
you get those on smogon too
also im not getting anything
+1
define Question4
{
So what do you propose in lieu of my theory?
}
define Question5
{
Or are you fine with being lethargic and maintaining the RVS?
}
Query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question4)
ask (Question5)
}
um... do you accept negatives?
i did wanna spark a discussion though, and i was not disappointed
what's your thing with neko? angleshoot?
what's your thing with neko? angleshoot?
did it say i was on? i just got the email
just slightly bothered by the wording of what he said, but the more i think on it the less i think its a slip
so ill probs unvote after i put some pressure on
I can tell this game is going to be mainly me fiddling around with mentality a lot.
What pressure are you putting on a slot that hasn't posted yet?
I didn't realize there was a second page until after I posted so I didn't realize Conq was voting me
That said conq thinking he can get away with a tiny post is scummy b/c that's his scum meta
please assist me in beating conq like a pinyata until the posts come out this is the closest ill ever get to conq carrying me again
wtf no one told me that the game started
/vote refa
im curious as to how our character picks will impact the game. yours seems the strongest, so perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way
...wait, how did all 3 of you happen to enter thread at rhe same time
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
hmm. solid reaction.
townlean
(justification for nnr vote is like a page back iirc)
unvoting shadoweh wasnt necessarily in response to dormios post, more addressing the thing that pinged me about neko
How big of a pushover are you lmao
It's a genuine question. It is in fact, relevant for me.
In context of your mafia games anyway.
and i could maybe link some mafia games ive previously played tomorrow (might be hard though i cant remember many off the top of my head)
wasn't asking for this but would be appreciated regardless. i dont think i'll need yours though but it'll help.
i mean my self awareness isnt up to par is what im saying
idgi
whats slank lynching policy on this site? how much lurking is generally tolerated until we realize "wait X wagon is t/t lets lynch a lurker instead and see if thats a better vote" or smth like that
am just curious
ill pause here because afaict not many developments have risen so ill wait and see where the thread goes. perhaps i can have a readslist done ~12h before dl at the pace this game is advancing
i considered not responding, think i'll do more of that, but i have made a mental decision after reading that
hahaha why did you post this
I didn't realize there was a second page until after I posted so I didn't realize Conq was voting me
That said conq thinking he can get away with a tiny post is scummy b/c that's his scum meta
please assist me in beating conq like a pinyata until the posts come out this is the closest ill ever get to conq carrying me again
Jesus Christ y'all need to learn to stop posting.
##unvote
##vote:shadoweh
walk me through your thoughts here, can you explain what my scum meta is and how that applied to my post
nuxl what are you thinking
is there an archive somewhere cuz it looks like there's nothing here? when was the last game?https://shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=14201.0
@duskfall98
point is i already have (minute) reason to suspect him and thats the best i have right nowwhat's the minute reason? i looked through your posts but i dont think i see anything?
https://shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=14201.0
```Do you mean in general?```i meant wrt that zwerd post you quoted but in general is fine too (although i'd be surprised if you had many thoughts so far)
what's the minute reason? i looked through your posts but i dont think i see anything?
##Vote: Nuxl
Too much posting that isn't actually productive and spends more time talking about Nuxl's own thought process in a gamestate where there isn't really much to think about; it reads like scum trying to bait early townreads to me.
oh my god why does no one read page 3 T_T
for future reference i'm usually conservative on posting my reads publicly. the mentality of how you are perceived versus what you might say could impact thread flow and scum reaction is a dilemma i face every dayit sounded like you were asking for someone else to react to that post, which is why i asked. i guess the post didnt stand out to me as something i'd vote zwerd over.
For my amusement, I have decided I think I will shame whoever votes him for that post. Is "why" important?
its the weird entrance post where he accidentally says he doesnt know how to open a pmhow would that NOT be nai? everyone had to open a pm this game.
its ALMOST nai but i think its just ai enough to pressure him over and see what happens
how would that NOT be nai? everyone had to open a pm this game.
it sounded like you were asking for someone else to react to that post, which is why i asked. i guess the post didnt stand out to me as something i'd vote zwerd over.
i never thought anybody should vote zwer over that post no, thought i made it clear when i reacted to refayour reaction to refa was over his initial zwerd vote though? i thought this was a different reaction you were making to the post zwerd made about slank lynches.
i don't think people pick up my crypticism sometimes. habit of being open masons with hal
misquote; i meant "make" not "open"okay but how does that change things, i want to know why you think that makes him more likely scum than town
your reaction to refa was over his initial zwerd vote though? i thought this was a different reaction you were making to the post zwerd made about slank lynches.
okay but how does that change things, i want to know why you think that makes him more likely scum than town
the q was for fun. read like a post someone new on my homesite would make
ah, ok then.
do you have any strong meta tells on anyone here in particular? does anybody have any strong meta tells on anybody?
this is relevant to my first "job"
unless you have a better suggestion?i dont think anyone will follow you on nnr because i can already guess the response he's going to make and then what are you going to do? say ok and drop it? wow so much pressure.
most of us havent played mafia in ages and even if we did idr anyone having super high confidence reads on anyone.
also id love to ping tommy to pop in but im psure thats illegal given noc rules so fire truck
i dont think anyone will follow you on nnr because i can already guess the response he's going to make and then what are you going to do? say ok and drop it? wow so much pressure.
this is assuming hes town, of course, i assume?this isnt assuming anything about nnr's flip, it's just a push that goes nowhere in 99% of cases.
im still gonna take this course and you cannot stop me. tbh you should help instead. at least shadoweh has said *words*.
i think conversely because of page 3 actually
(justification for nnr vote is like a page back iirc)
Can you explain this one further?
Nuxl, I don't get why you think there's a load of content. Literally nothing has interested me except Zwerd and the Conq/Shadoweh exchange.
Zwerd, please don't focus on meta so much because to my knowledge it doesn't exist.
Didn't say this. But meta makes people readable.
a good portion the game has readable content
Okay but explain why you disagree with my vote.
Referring to this.
I mean MotK meta, not individuals' meta. I think meta reading is going to be weak for other reasons (most people haven't played in a while, so they'll play differently), but there's at least merit to that.
Conq, what's your opinion on Zwerd? You've mentioned why his push is weak but no thoughts on the slot itself.don't have an actual read on his slot atm. think he generally reads awkward and hyperactive but that's not alignment indicative. i'm not actually sure what you were getting at wrt the post you voted him for, unless it's just gut due to the way he phrased it.
You were already voting me conq :VI was revoting you for emphasis you goonhead. Answer my question though.
a good portion the game has readable contentReally only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
Really only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
If I entered a game thread with lots of players from different communities and nobody was saying they had any strong meta reads, I would simply conclude there were no strong meta reads yet. Really Nuxl reads like a fake ass fire trucker to me; I think there's more effort being put into feeling out the room and establishing himself right now than reading others, and establishing yourself earlygame I think is something scum with an active playstyle like to do. Town who want to establish themselves are more likely to do so through their productivity and not by talking about their "job in the game" in a game where half the players haven't posted more than jokevotes.
Refa, how passionate are you about your vote on zwerd (relative to earlygame)?
Personally I can't see myself wanting to lynch zwerd today ever but I did have the same initial reaction to his jokevote on you so I can almost understand where you're coming from.
Weirded out by both Conq and Shadoweh on a gut level so I'm interested to see where that goes. it would be good if they both made comprehensive posts with opinions.
it would be good if they both made comprehensive posts with opinions.don't do this to me, i'm trying to take it easy this game.
i do this pretty (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-rewind-night-3.3657400/) often (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/immorality-mafia-n2.3659383/) actually.I forget, does smogon have an ISO feature? Don't have time to read games rn.
dunno how you're weirded by conq
I forget, does smogon have an ISO feature? Don't have time to read games rn.
Can get back to you about Conq later.
(also my biggest tell is my postcount depending on my alignment but i think it's more productive for people to do their research anyway)oops! means it's not a tell anymore haha
I get a "requested page can't be found" from that link
Being cryptic has its place; I think the fact that you're hyper-posting while doing it is what's rubbing me the wrong way. when I was reading the thread it came off like you're trying to make a big impression while avoiding actually making any big waves and it felt unnatural.
FWIW I'm personally not worried about outing tells as I think tells are always circumstantial to begin with, although I think how and when you attack somebody with a tell has an effect in the context of a single game (This is a digression and not relevant to my read on anybody)
Thinking further evolution of my current reads is going to depend on how the people in question interact with people who haven't posted yet, so gonna duck out for now.
i dunno how much this site takes meta into account i kinda went under the premise people sort of know how each other play and thus could make >rand accurate reads because of multiple games with each otherThe main issue is that motk mafia was on hold for literally 5 years, so unless they've been playing with eachother on other sites it'll be a lot harder to do meta-reads. Although not impossible!
if that's not the case here then i'll just drop that assumption
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
}
I was revoting you for emphasis you goonhead. Answer my question though.I know I'm just saying you can't threaten me with things you're already doing..
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
This has to be the worst post of all time. Refa is targeting Zwerdjib, and Nuxl defends him by saying "Zwerdjib probably seems scummy as town and towny as scum. I will protect him."
implying one of two things: "The people who want to lynch Zwerdjib are trying to lynch a scum-seeming towny player, therefore those people have revealed themselves to be the actual scum;"
or "Zwerdjib is acting very scummy therefore he is very town."
I think it deserves a vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Nuxl
and someone named Prims is ... wait, is Prims short for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?
you ever approach a slot and be like "this person does not align towards what my usual expectations of a mafia player is"? how do you approach their slot @O4rfish?
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
// Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
(zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
define Statement2
{
I would also like to say that (Nuxl) is failing to impress as well. Refusing to explain opinions by hiding behind the shield that he calls "meta" is questionable, to say the least. If I had a second vote, it would go on him.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement1)
ask (Statement2)
return (Opinions)
}
Why the fire truck would you post three posts within ten minutes, after I JUST ASKED YOU TO CUT THAT strawberries OUT?
Try thinking about your posts BEFORE you post them, which even could be (and should be) AFTER you write them. More content in fewer posts - this would be easier for other people (such as me) to read and understand.
Unless your priority is filling up the thread instead of getting other people to read and understand what you write. That would be scummy, so if you're scum you should keep doing what you're doing.
In response to your point about implications that aren't there, Nuxl, you said "anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana"
You are threatening people, and I made assumptions as to what the threat was, and the reason for making this threat. I will place an apology in escrow on the condition that those assumptions were incorrect.
Therefore: please explain fully AND IN ONE SINGLE POST what your threat was, and why it was justified (from a Town perspective).
I will say this: when a person makes me think "person is playing Mafia in a backwards manner" my response is not "I must protect that person"
define Statement3
{
It's really stupid to go off somebody's established meta if that meta is well known. And it's even worse if the aforementioned meta is simply being outright stated in the thread. If people know that there is a certain expectation of them, then it's really easy to subvert that particular expectation in order to fulfill whatever need you have at the time.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement3)
return (Opinions)
}
define Question8
{
Ignoring the fact that I disagree with (Nuxl) wholly on the statement of meta, does (Nuxl) have an actual opinion on any of the players who have posted so far?
}
define Statement4
{
A lot of what (Nuxl) has posted so far boils down an argument about a meta read that I, personally, couldn't care less about and arguments surrounding the usage of aforementioned meta. If anything, it seems like it's detracting from the entire scumhunting effort and serves as little more than a distraction.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
ask (Question8)
ask (Statement4)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
loop (Statement2)
}
whats slank lynching policy on this site? how much lurking is generally tolerated until we realize "wait X wagon is t/t lets lynch a lurker instead and see if thats a better vote" or smth like that
he rolled scum without me and thus did not post for all of d1 ;)Could this be a scumtell? :thonk:
im fairly certain that case was the exception to the rule, and he should be able to answer that better himself. the game is specifically the most recent ranked game on 451
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana##Vote: Nuxl
ok so i cant multiquote efficiently on mobile so forgive me if i need to make 3 posts one second
Zwerd, please don't focus on meta so much because to my knowledge it doesn't exist. Just makes it harder reading you TBH.
I mean MotK meta, not individuals' meta. I think meta reading is going to be weak for other reasons (most people haven't played in a while, so they'll play differently), but there's at least merit to that.
Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid. Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.
Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum
I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it.
define meta
{
Bullstrawberries.
// Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
(zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement1)
return (Opinions)
}
##Vote: Nuxl
You were subtly defending zwerd for weak reasons (yes meta is weak most of the time) then when you get called out on it you say it's a joke in #193?
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
did it say i was on? i just got the email
just slightly bothered by the wording of what he said, but the more i think on it the less i think its a slip
so ill probs unvote after i put some pressure on
don't have an actual read on his slot atm. think he generally reads awkward and hyperactive but that's not alignment indicative. i'm not actually sure what you were getting at wrt the post you voted him for, unless it's just gut due to the way he phrased it.
Really only like five or so people other than you at that point, but even then if you believe that your engagement with anybody's content other than zwerd was minimal!! So what gives!! Like when you disagreed with Refa, your response was just "nah" instead of pursuing any line of inquiry wrt Refa's vote.
If I entered a game thread with lots of players from different communities and nobody was saying they had any strong meta reads, I would simply conclude there were no strong meta reads yet. Really Nuxl reads like a fake ass fire trucker to me; I think there's more effort being put into feeling out the room and establishing himself right now than reading others, and establishing yourself earlygame I think is something scum with an active playstyle like to do. Town who want to establish themselves are more likely to do so through their productivity and not by talking about their "job in the game" in a game where half the players haven't posted more than jokevotes.
Refa, how passionate are you about your vote on zwerd (relative to earlygame)?
Personally I can't see myself wanting to lynch zwerd today ever but I did have the same initial reaction to his jokevote on you so I can almost understand where you're coming from.
##Unvote
##Vote: Prims
idg why you'd think us talking is weird or suspicious Mr. huh what Prims Jesus, if anything me bothering Conq to see if he's town should be nostalgic because I like being able to trust people.
MotKtown: where the scum is scummy and town stopped playing.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
I don't understand your Prims vote. It feels like a reaction that's disproportionate to what Prims actually posted, like "this is confusing and I want to see where it goes" => "it shouldn't be confusing, you're wrong". Why would that be something voteworthy instead of a point of disagreement?
I don't have a strong read on Nuxl yet but I think the suspicions on his slot are kinda wonky. Rather than being align indicative yet I feel like he's somewhere between excited and culture-shocked. Oarfish, if Zeep was actually a townie instead of scum (whcih seems to be the angle you're pursuing right now), how would that change your current suspicion on Nuxl?
##Vote: Nuxl
You were subtly defending zwerd for weak reasons (yes meta is weak most of the time) then when you get called out on it you say it's a joke in #193?
Hey Nuxl, my impression is that you don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but if you had to scumread someone, who would it be and why?
Nuxl. Seriously. Slow down. Over a third of the posts in the topic is yours.Do you have any thoughts
Fair enough. Reread him and I can see what you mean about him being awkward. I agree that he definitely wasn't coached, but I don't think that makes him less likely to be scum. TBH reading stuff like this
Still annoys me because like...I can see the second line as coming from a townie, and the third line feels kind of self defeating for town to do.
I can get the reasoning behind the NNR vote now. Overall, I'd say like...I'm null on his slot ATM and am more confused where the strong "would not lynch" reads are coming from.
Sidenote: I just realized NNR and Niekstory were different users.
It's gut because it doesn't read like a town mindset for someone to be like "if this town dies, maybe the entire town gets a powerup".
Could this be a scumtell? :thonk:
nevermind im a wizard
(and his addendum)
(im going to assume the addendum is addressed to me too @ refa)
this is actually the exact opposite of what im doing (except asking about lurker policy, thats its own thing) and it does really help to understand expectations of players of the site as it gives me some insight into what is likely to happen. i dont, however, blindly believe in meta as a tool to push people - very different from nuxl here - but i think an established pattern is hard to break and at the very least something of a starting point. a guideline more than a metric
with that said i still believe we should be totally pushing people, regardless of what their projected reaction will be. and i believe you agree with me there. so this is more like a reiteration than argument
well this is an annoying and unhealthy mindset
of course we are going to curvy laser around and say literally nothing. thats what was happening before lol
i would love to scumhunt with 2 pages of nothingness but im afraid thats simply not feasible. though i get the feeling youre talking more about post volume here
im going to defend nuxl here because the sites we come from are, for some people, literally considered one and the same so i understand why he carries the posting style he does. post style/volume is generally nai so its kind of unfair to read him for this
otoh if you are genuinely talking about his content, youre not actually pulling any examples to criticize so i dont see where youre going with that
final note: what benefit does it bring to mafia to clutter thread when you can. yknow. isolate posts. i would like to know
you sure you want my opinions? you havent seemed to like them thus far, heh
well, for the third time, the nnr thing is the best thing i have. i dont think reading into shadoweh/conq will do much good for me (especially since that appears to be related to site meta, which is exactly what youre criticizing) so i may as fire trucking well see how far we may get with a lurker.
i will, of course, change my mind if anything happens but so far we have gotten almost nowhere in 7 pages. this is an attempt to try to get somewhere
(sorry this took all morning. breakfast -> bus -> check-in eats a lot of time up)
What do you think your vote is currently accomplishing right now? There is a correct answer to this
nothing. help me out tbqh
Do you have any thoughtsMy thoughts: This is my first game and all the heavy lingo is making my head hurt.
The answer is just going to make you mad though, I said that to bug you and you're reacting by being more pushy and considering putting in effort, which is cute and townie of you. I decided while mining iridium that I should stop bugging you when I think you're reaction is townie. :kassgiggle:Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?
My thoughts: This is my first game and all the heavy lingo is making my head hurt.A lot of other people also have yet to vote. What do you think of all the lingo and arguments that have been thrown around so far?
Also NNR still has yet to vote.
##Unvote: Dormio
##Vote: NekoNekoRex
Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?
I don't actually get your Prims vote atm, is it just because he found us suspicious in a throwaway line? It feels like you were just trying to find a way to get your vote off me and picked Prims for some reason I can't really figure out.
Ah and I just read sb's vote and he's saying the same stuff, cool.
Wrt nuxl since he seems to be a topic of interest, I don't have a townread on him per se but a lot of the pressure on him is coming from what I feel is playstyle difference stuff which is almost always null. Will have to digest some of the posts people are making about him later when I get back from work since my mind is skimming over them atm.
zwerd post an actual opinion on people, enough stuff has happened that you can do that by now. i dont see why the nnr thing could be the best thing you have when it's almost quite literally nothing compared to all the stuff in here recently.
testing to see if there's a word filter. fire truck. firetruck. fu.ck.
There is a word filter but it can be turned off locally in one's profile page (under the Look and Layout options).
Vote Count 1.3
O4rfish (Rumia) (0):
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (2): Raikaria, Shadoweh
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (0): sb, Niektory
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (4): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan, zwerdjib, Conqueror, sb, Refa
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Shadoweh
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (0): Serela
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (1): Xinnidy
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (1): Serela
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (0):
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (1): AbuHumaid, Dormio Ergo Sum, O4rfish, Refa
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (2): zwerdjib, Niektory
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (1): Nuxl
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (3): Prims, O4rfish, AbuHumaid
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (2): NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have a tremendous number of nanoseconds remaining (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
NekoNekoRex and Duskfall98 have been prodded for inactivity. The more things change!
*Gets in from work after train cancellations and being a sardine*
*7 new pages*
Well some things don't change. Also if I'm inactive for a little bit over 24 hours give me some leeway before a prod, it's probably trains.
I look at the votecount and immediately some people seemingly doublevoting and votes in bold and italics stand out.
I have some more immediate matters to attend to, I'll be back within the next 2 hours so I can properly read and such.
those are vote history, not doublevotes
Makes sense, I'd only skimmed the very top of the pile.
Anyway, it seems the majority of the posts are zwerdjib and Nuxl posting everything that pops into their brains and overthinking things. Something that keeps coming up is "Meta".
Allow me to address that:
1: It's been like; 2~3 years since the last MotK Mafia. The "Meta" could likly have changed. Especially considering there are new players so even if everyone played the same, new players could disrupt the "Meta"
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
Except we also have players who always low-effort like NekoNekoRex. And of course, people's lives have changed. My activity is going to be absolutely nowhere near where it used to be, for example.
tl;dr: You newcomers really shouldn't worry about the "Meta". Your very existence makes any previous "Meta" irrelevant anyway.
What are your thoughts on Prims' Nuxl read? The other ones seemed kinda wack to me (logic wise) but I thought that one was decent.
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
Zeep, what alignment would you guess Nuxl as? There's a lot of Nuxl defence but I don't actually know what your read on him is. Cut: my question was literally "what do you think of Nuxl" so respond to this, I guess.
Nuxl, if I told you Oarfish has had a number of dubious plays in past games (remembering the Serela vengekill still makes me want to scream a little), what would your read on them be? I think seeing your notes now rather than later is good.
me (this section is townlocks and a joke in this context)
refa
nuxl
you
dormio
prims (?)
almost everyone else
i feel like theres someone i forgot that definitely goes here dankpuff
<n/a>
<n/a>
I'm already demotivated, mafia sucks. Someone needs to post something I can get an actually legit scum read off of.
this is kind of a bad q right? im not interested in forcing a read i currently don't have if it's not high confidence
but homework for you: can you look at o4rfish's initial two posts on page 7 and tell me what you think? i think the skill level of that player is very important for my read on them. ignore the other posts they have, i have prewritten notes on the page for the other posts but need to know if what im seeing is just me
i think shadowehs page 4 was a weak ping (i even responded to it! guys im scumhunting omg)bc that sort of declaration was made like 5 hours itg. If I had to connect it, it reminds me of something tbz did as scum to justify his rvs vote on smogon rewind on smogon dot com. so i can see the votes behind it. i don't mega hate the prims vote post but also do not remember it at this point of time
at this point of the game townreads are more important because you have a poe to work under. it's easier to correctly identify somebody as town and work under a winning poe than scumreading honestly. in the latter you are easily able to make a declaration of "this person does not feel town" and thus can shove them in for later
of course, happens in games with eggs in one basket players
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
That does explain things (also sorry if it seems like we're hassling you about this). Zwerd, can you explain your reads on Nuxl/SB/Dormio and also look at Shadoweh's posts (there are only like two so it should be easy) and comment on her wagon?
Makes sense, I'd only skimmed the very top of the pile.
Anyway, it seems the majority of the posts are zwerdjib and Nuxl posting everything that pops into their brains and overthinking things. Something that keeps coming up is "Meta".
Allow me to address that:
1: It's been like; 2~3 years since the last MotK Mafia. The "Meta" could likly have changed. Especially considering there are new players so even if everyone played the same, new players could disrupt the "Meta"
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
Except we also have players who always low-effort like NekoNekoRex. And of course, people's lives have changed. My activity is going to be absolutely nowhere near where it used to be, for example.
tl;dr: You newcomers really shouldn't worry about the "Meta". Your very existence makes any previous "Meta" irrelevant anyway.
I think Prims' read is fine in that it's not scummy but I think non-sf/motk is so different (based more around townhunting instead of scumhunting) that I don't think it actually reflects badly on Nuxl, yet. I think that it becomes scummy if nothing changes over time, but it's not worth looking at for now.
Zeep, what alignment would you guess Nuxl as? There's a lot of Nuxl defence but I don't actually know what your read on him is. Cut: my question was literally "what do you think of Nuxl" so respond to this, I guess.
Nuxl, if I told you Oarfish has had a number of dubious plays in past games (remembering the Serela vengekill still makes me want to scream a little), what would your read on them be? I think seeing your notes now rather than later is good.
It's less forcing a read and more trying to see where your thought process is at the moment.
I don't like talking about people's skill levels but I think Oarfish being really confident in his reads (and the logic being wack) is...something I can see coming from him as town. Disclaimer: I have never played with Scum Oarfish, but I wouldn't scumread him just because the logic doesn't check out.
This is more of a gameplay difference thing so don't wanna derail things too much but it is easier for scum to fake townreads than to fake scumreads; townreads are still important and honestly I agree so much easier to get earlier in the game, but yeah.
I'm too lazy to quote here but how experienced is Zwerd? I feel like it was mentioned before but I don't remember.
Okay, so I have a confession to make. Around the time I called you a goonhead, I realized you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I kept going because I wanted to see what you would do. How does that change your read of my reaction?Good good, we have a lot of material to make for Len so you'd better keep performing :-* (the more you post the townier you sound so etc)
I don't actually get your Prims vote atm, is it just because he found us suspicious in a throwaway line? It feels like you were just trying to find a way to get your vote off me and picked Prims for some reason I can't really figure out.I guess that's not entirely wrong, I didn't feel like voting you anymore and I didn't like that he was framing us as a fight when there is... a lot of other material to look at that should be grabbing more attention at that phase. Has he posted again btw, i don't think he has but its hard to see. :V Regardless I've decided flailing blindly in random directions was a much better meta then waiting to be sure about stuff has been working on mofiascum.
Shadoweh's response isn't good, but if you look at her followup posts this whole thing can be viewed as a triple word score "Just joking ... unless? Also flirty" poke at Conq.Perfect, just as planned :relieved:
I guess that's not entirely wrong, I didn't feel like voting you anymore and I didn't like that he was framing us as a fight when there is... a lot of other material to look at that should be grabbing more attention at that phase. Has he posted again btw, i don't think he has but its hard to see.
Abu, how was the part you quoted subtle? I understand the rest of what you're saying (but don't think it's scummy) but I don't think that Nuxl has tried to keep the fact he's defending Zeep on the down-low at all. Why is Nuxl here scum defending Zeep instead of town defending Zeep? What would you expect to be different?It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
what other material are you referring to and do you have "attention" to give to said material? why is "should" importantrephrasing my last question: why should some things warrant more attention than others
It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
It's not that post specifically that's subtle, but rather his defence of zwerd that I found subtle since he shrugged it off as "it's just a joke" when he got pressured, but I guess "subtle" is not the right word? Nuxl here was defending zwerd with baseless confidence and weak reasons; something I would expect a scum to do to try to pocket a townie, as I would expect a townie to show a little bit of uncertainty in his read, especially that early into the game.
I do declare that Dormio and Oarfish come off as "the townie" to me as well, I frown at SB for bullying me for trying to have fun, trying to be a grumpypants is scummy. We should enjoy ourselves here, you can't let common sense hold you back in Gensokyo!
don't get what you mean by "reflects badly". why would their read reflect badly on me
dubious plays as both alignments or just as town? if it's just the latter then that's way more important thanks
I frown at SB for bullying me for trying to have fun, trying to be a grumpypants is scummy. We should enjoy ourselves here, you can't let common sense hold you back in Gensokyo!
did you clearly read the post you're saying that had "pressure"? did you even read my response to you orOops, I think I did misread the post LOL, but it really looked like O4rfish was questioning your read, and not the threat, so I was confused.
and i happen to exude baseless confidence naturally. i've even linked my iso for you! :)
Like I said, MotK and SF have traditionally been more scumhunting focused than townhunting focused and so generally townreads on people would just emerge from them posting organically and their cases looking like they have thought into them and are likely to come from town mindsets, rather than people trying to prove their alignment outright. This is why I think Prims scumread you effectively and why I think it makes sense for him to do it even if I don't agree with it. Obviously though I know it's not an all or nothing thing wrt scumhunting or townhunting so if there still wasn't much of the former later it'd be weird.
I don't know if its both alignments because I don't actually remember a game with scum Oarfish, but they are definitely not good to read with uh, traditional expectations in mind, I'd say. The explanation makes sense I guess.
Oops, I think I did misread the post LOL, but it really looked like O4rfish was questioning your read, and not the threat, so I was confused.
And fine I'll read that ISO.
rephrasing my last question: why should some things warrant more attention than othersMe joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
Me joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
you asked for my notes, i gave you them. do you have any thoughts on them and how they reflect the slot/player in question or are they not safe to share as of yet
I do have one more thought about how to read into Oarfish, but saying it right now is a waste.
Me joking with conq during rvs isn't alignment indicative so making a big deal out of it is suspicious to me.
yeah, but what's your query with my read? wasn't the first time i defended the slot this game. is confidence really alignment indicative iyo? (or is it indicative from where you're from or something)Yes, right now your baseless confidence is what I don't like about your read because I don't think you have solid reasons. I already explained this.
i was kind of half-trolling with the last line, but the resource is there
@sb About Zeep, I don't think he has done anything that makes me feel strongly about him. I think I have to go backread some of his posts because honestly, I have been skimming; reading is hard.were only on page 9 though :D
@sb About Zeep, I don't think he has done anything that makes me feel strongly about him. I think I have to go backread some of his posts because honestly, I have been skimming; reading is hard.
Checking in to avoid more prods.you better read all 10 pages before writing a post
Need to Actualy Set Up Email this time.
I'll slam a post after work, which is around 4 hours
was your page 4 post serious? genuine questionThe first sentence is serious, the second is slightly serious but he's definitely not doing that, and of course beating conq like a pinyata is 100% serious because he likes it that way.
Shadoweh, did you miss Prims' 168 or were you just not happy with it, because I felt like he covered the Zeep and Nuxl interactions there.Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.
define Question9
{
How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?
}
define Question10
{
Are we really going to be arguing about the semantics of metagaming for the entirety of day 1?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question9)
ask (Question10)
}
define Statement5
{
(zwerdjib)'s latest posts still don't impress me. I think that giving townreads is a placating move that, as someone mentioned earlier, is easy to fake as scum and serves only to slightly endear you towards some people.
// This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read.
// On top of that, formatting my posts like this is also a huge pain.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement5)
}
if (Reply #278 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1060#msg1060))
{
cout <<Yes.
}
Yes.
Also if I have a second vote right now it goes on Serela for making a drive-by post to a drive-by comment just because I suspect he'll be in the same place 24 hours from now (Serela this is your queue to make an actual post, I know you can do better).My free time to post since the game has started has been "it's slow at work so let's give this a look" at which point I went "dear lord the entire thread is nuxl spam get me out of here." Anyway, reading up now! (Also, I managed to fix the computer, which was what took up all my free time at home. OMG I went to lay in bed while it installed windows updates and restarted and when I plopped in bed and glanced at the computer, I was like, WAIT IT'S ALREADY BACK ON THE DESKTOP SCREEN WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S DONE THAT WAS TEN SECONDS. SSDs are a trip)
I'm already demotivated, mafia sucks. Someone needs to post something I can get an actually legit scum read off of.Oh god I feel you. Day 1 is absolute suffering but the game usually starts to enter 'enjoyable' somewhere around mid/late day 2... @_@
Can't help but read Serela's four posts that say nothing about the game as "hey guys, remember all those times I was really wacky acting and secretly trying to kill you! I'm totally not doing that now!"I wasn't going to publish this post just yet but there's clearly a clamoring for it so I'll post what I already have typed up as I reread inbetween work tasks :V Also, which person are you again? Even if you aren't LEGACY MOTK I'm sure I at least know you from eimm or the discord but man that username
Don't really think Shadoweh is scummy for the vote on me though and honestly unless she got ballsier in the last few years I think as scum she would be thinking NO PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT ME and not press the issue at all lmao.YOU MUST BE LEGACY MOTK WHO ARE YOU
define Question9
{
How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?
}
define Question10
{
Are we really going to be arguing about the semantics of metagaming for the entirety of day 1?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question9)
ask (Question10)
}
define Statement5
{
(zwerdjib)'s latest posts still don't impress me. I think that giving townreads is a placating move that, as someone mentioned earlier, is easy to fake as scum and serves only to slightly endear you towards some people.
// This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read.
// On top of that, formatting my posts like this is also a huge pain.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Statement5)
}
im *flips through userbook of old motk mafia posters* ...Hanged Hourai*SOBS* YOUR NAME ISN'T EVEN IN THE PLAYERLIST I DON'T UNDERSTAND
Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.HAVE WE ALREADY COMMENCED THE SHADOWEH BULLYING :D
Wait this is the post he did before I voted wtf don't confuse me sb
I had the exact same thought about Serela as Conq did, let's get his ass.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
Niektory maybe low content newb!scum t b h.
@Nuxl is Niektory actually Flee Fleet. I didn't play in any of that person's SF games but I recognize the name.
I thought Shadoweh's vote on me made no sense when she posted it, since I could only take it as "no you actually wouldn't logically have an illogical gut feeling about this", but other people already talked about that. but yeah I couldn't tell what angle Conq and Shadoweh were going for with their votes and it seemed weird and I wanted to see how it'd play out, feel reasonably good about them both now though. Don't really think Shadoweh is scummy for the vote on me though and honestly unless she got ballsier in the last few years I think as scum she would be thinking NO PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT ME and not press the issue at all lmao.
Read on Nuxl now is that he's somebody who likes using the thread as a chatroom. I looked at the games he linked and I still feel uneasy about him though? His posting here feels toothless compared to those games; it may be because he's in a new environment but I don't see any clear scumhunting effort coming from him.
We should lynch someone today.
What scum want is to run out the clock. Town is trying to get a bunch of useful information before the lynch. Scum will try to prevent most or all of the day's posts from being useful after the lynch. Thus, scum will make (or let) town waste time and energy doing unproductive things such as reading tons of low-content posts. Players are lazy and don't want to read that much. Have you seen how many people complain about the number of pages in this thread?
Of course, that's if scum are smart. Lazy or unprofessional scum will simply do scummy things such as buddying, voteparking, drive-bys, etc.
Shadoweh you have a not-insignificant wagon so you need to provide something of value to town. I don't think repeatedly defending your early D1 posts is valuable.
SB - if I (as town) somehow knew that Zwerdjib was town, I would still view Nuxl as scummy. Nuxl says "this person is town; I will defend this person" which at face value is only slightly valuable. His defense is that Zwerdjib reminds him of some other player which means Zwerdjib is town somehow ... and the threat to defend him was a joke. This is such poor play it's worthy of ridicule. Tell me SB, am I wasting everyone's time by pressing him on this?
What's the problem of pushing a wagon in general, @Serela?not really what I said, I asked a question to all those voting shadoweh because I don't really see why she has apparent votability, and made an offhand comment before that that we don't need to be super worried about pushing wagons to lynchable levels yet because we still have plenty of time (since o4rfish brought it up in the post beforehand)
not really what I said, I asked a question to all those voting shadoweh because I don't really see why she has apparent votability, and made an offhand comment before that that we don't need to be super worried about pushing wagons to lynchable levels yet because we still have plenty of time (since o4rfish brought it up in the post beforehand)
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
Yeah my rvs vote is basically a non-vote and I'm not -really- seeing anything else (although there's some people i am waiting to see do their followups) so I probably should go ahead and
##Unvote:Abu
##Vote:Raikaria
NNR and Duskfall effectively haven't posted at all. Raikaria -has- made posts, and has responded to other players, so there's actually something there to place judgment on.
OH SORRY NUXL I DIDN'T REPLY
TBH, I don't remember Flee...Fleet, whatever the other part of his name is. I feel like he was newb town but I don't like...remember anything about him?
Is there some way to ISO people and if so, how do?
you better read all 10 pages before writing a posti got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
lol thats literally what i expected but f u for posting before conq could reply to my post trolling himahhh screw you. my reply was just going to be prims pls but i didnt want to give you the satisfaction >:(
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
do you have any strong meta tells on anyone here in particular? does anybody have any strong meta tells on anybody?a lot of his posts refer to meta (the ones Ive read up to) but these kinda stood out to me.
this is relevant to my first "job"
visible confusionsays the guy who hopped to vote me based off a misquote
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
says the guy who hopped to vote me based off a misquote
pardon?are you still calling that misquote a scumslip? wtf
you cant see your own post as a slip? thats weird
and youre not clear based off the fact that it was a misquote regardless.
yeah actually
##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib
calls my reasoned post a 'wagon hop' and says its a 'hard scumlean' without any actual content to explain. Bad and bad.
BTW I don't actually know if its going to be worth the effort or sanity to reread all 300 posts. Considering just starting from here and watching where it goes since I can actually play from a solid footing
are you still calling that misquote a scumslip? wtf
> reasoned postI stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.
please reread what your original accusatory post was. reread it again. then tell me what part of it makes sense.
you even acknowledged enough that it didnt make sense that you pulled quotes. which was good
and now youre pretending it made sense from the start. i dont get it. what is your logic here
Warning - while you were typing 18 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.well, beans.
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Warning - while you were --
I stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.
The meta part I'll admit is pretty muddled by me trying to catch up and isn't as solid. That was the only part I tried to justify in my post (admittedly poorly)
You just labeling me as 'scum lean' and not actually saying anything about it except in retrospect is not good and you're being confusing by both saying my post is good and it isn't.
It does make sense, I just don't want to go pull quotes again from the 300 post hell that is pages 1-7 40 posts per page
and no, it isn't a "wagon hop", it was based off my own opinion? As I said, you wordlessly hopping to vote me is, in fact, a wagon hop right after oarfish.
I'm going to be real I haven't played mafia in like 6(? memory is hard) years so the prospect that people are actually trying is making me regret this something fierce, but I believe I've already made that implicit in my first post. I entered this game with the impression that it'd be ridiculously slow.
On the other hand, I have like 3 free hours right now, let's see if I remember how to play this eSport again.
##unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Hello there.
What is your stance on nuxl, since I take it you have him and zwerd in the same 'unimpressive' negative connotation boat. Do you agree with what Sir Touhou said about them? Or what sb's said in deference to Sir Touhou's read (and how sb doesn't scumread nuxl off of that). Why are you sitting on your zwerd vote, adding little other than you're still not impressed by then, and then bemoan about the arguing of metagaming (which, while at one point I would agree with you, page 10 is well after that point)?
Basically I'm saying there's a lot of content going around, specifically involving discussion of zwerd and nuxl by other players and you're handwaving it entirely as metagame talk. I think that's lazy at best?
While we're at it.
Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?
By the way, why was that convincing enough for you to change your vote, @zwerd? Do you think what raik had done (or failed to do) awards pressure?
---well, beans.
Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.
--
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)
I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hi Dormio! Sup? Do you still think of zwerd as scummy? Would you agree with NNR's reasons?
This post ended up as a stream of consciousness wall of text and I hate how it looks but I'm hitting post anyways.
{
cout <<(Statement10)
cout <<(Statement11)
cout <<(Statement12)
cout <<(Statement13)
}
My current opinion of (Nuxl) is that, whilst I disagree with how he's playing, I feel that (Nuxl) is at least making a genuine effort to play the game in accordance with his logic. Also, lazy is my middle name. If I didn't still think of (zwerdjib) as being scummy, I would have moved my vote over to (O4rfish). I'm in a privileged position where I don't actually have to read any of (NekoNekoRex)'s posts and I fully intend to make use of this privilege.
given the giant Mass of posts I honestly don't want to read before I started posting, not many yet. (Although I might go back and read some later when I'm feeling less fatigued)
Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.
--Putting it that way, I could see that being valid. I believe I stated strongly before my opinions on Nuxl prior to and during my vote on him
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)
I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.So it's a vote that might be incorrect without me reading the other half of the game I wasn't participating in, but for sure I thought what I had read was scummy, and reading more of his posts wouldn't make me think the initial ones were any less scummy.
Dormio I take issue with your characterization of my posts, especially since you wrote "How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?" and "This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read."
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched.
Shadoweh get in here and put a serious vote on someone
Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?What? When did I make any comment on niektory? The only emotion I have towards niektory is pity for their poor soul that this is their first mafia game apparently. A 17 member nightmare mashup of eimm players and motk washups who haven't had to play REAL BOY MAFIA for 5 years
And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)...ah, and this is just plain wrong. I mean, unless you interpret 'which you explained after you vote' as 'in the sentence after the vote, in the same post the vote is in'.
NNR "scumslipping" and the ensuing wagon was hilarious and also about as airtight as my new computer case (which has porous mesh for the entire topside? what the what? man what have I been doing for the last 12 years) and what amazes me is that somehow this turned into an actual, serious vote by Zwerdjib aka zeep. Now, obviously, the vote isn't really about that anymore (at least I sure hope not), but over... a weird wagon hop? I mean, NNR provided three clear reasons, even if he didn't go to the point of grabbing lots of quotes and references yet.
would you like to pull examples of posts that "are filler content" and "create an anti-town environment"?
Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything. Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1130#msg1130
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg927#msg927
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg896#msg896
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg820#msg820
Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything. Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"you flatter me! tbh i was planning on sleeping and then posting in the morning but ill make a quick post rn i guess
I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh
Don't really have a strong lynch opinion when I probably should but I think my vote is functionally useless right now so whateverEh, do you have anywhere you're leaning? By the time you see this post there's probably only going to be 24 hours left to deadline and your only vote will have been the 0-poster. and your stated reads will have been zwerd okay, conq okay, some other slots okay too. you were talking about pressure so im curious where you want to apply it because i reskimmed your iso and you're not really pressuring anywhere, just feeling stuff out and discussing some reads.
Wait, can you explain why you think he'd act like this as mafia over town?
zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.
what's difficult to read about her posts? it's not like she posts much and they're short and sweet.
unironically get good, there are at least 5 people with more difficult to read posting styles, probably more.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?
not about formatting, about what shes saying. language doesnt connect with me. feels like trying to translate html into english. without a professional.does that mean you scumread most people or?
and im trying to work out who *not* to vote at this point. might have more insight into that if i understood a goddamn thing shadoweh was saying
especially since he threatens to retaliate people who vote him.When did Nuxl do this...? Tbh I thought your push there was not great but in the sense that it seems like you made it because you weren't really paying attention while reading, which is basically what you said. plz read more :(
does that mean you scumread most people or?
i seriously dont understand what about shadoweh's posts are hard to read, can you point out an example or something
unrelated but while reading serela's posts i saw someone asking him why not niektory instead of raikaria and my personal answer so that is that raikaria slot can actually be pressured to post, plus he has the capability to actually post decent content so his current posts are worse given his skill level. hopefully niektory shows up soon though, i imagine they're probably overwhelmed regardless of their alignment.
I am seriously voting someone (who is someone? why no name?) and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing (posturing ill-defined) so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else (what would be easier???) but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by (WHERE IS FUN MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE POST???)
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh (oh cool a sentence/fragment/thing that makes sense)
Honestly I've yet to not at least somewhat disagree with a post about gameplay theory in this thread but I don't really want to get involved in these discussions until postgame since I find them distracting.
Serela... the closest you have to a suspicion on a player who has posted content is your paragraph of O4rfish where you immediately defend him from the line of reasoning you figured out. How am I supposed to tell if this is town you sincerely struggling to get a reads or scum you struggling to find reasons to vote any of the clearly townie townies?
FWIW I did think O4rfish's "what scum want is to run out the clock" speech was awkward and I'm not sure what brought Shadoweh over zwerdjib and Nuxl in his priorities recently.
Niektory hasn't really done anything and is getting away with it. Don't understand why they voted NNR for not voting yet here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1003#msg1003); lots of people hadn't made serious votes at that time, @Niektory what made you decide to vote NNR? I don't want to D1 powerwagon the new guy on their first game but yeah, this slot will need a lot more pressure on D2.
Not particularly interested in a Shadoweh wagon but won't defend her as long as she's voting me. you reap what you sow
We don't have any real wagons other than her though. I'm OK consolidating on Nuxl. If this really is just his playstyle then it seems to... not... get... results.....???? Which doesn't seem right because I thought he was a generally respected player. Still think even with his views on how to play the game he should seem more pro-active if a town, instead of his focus going mostly into gameplay theory and the social aspects of the game. I think he should be held to a higher standard.
@Nuxl: since you claim to not have scumreads, what lynches would you be most interested in seeing today? That may be a better way of phrasing it.
@NNR:When did Nuxl do this...? Tbh I thought your push there was not great but in the sense that it seems like you made it because you weren't really paying attention while reading, which is basically what you said. plz read more :(
Dan, Duskfall and Raikaria are all still effective noshows content-wise. tbh I don't mind consolidating on Raikaria either. It's good to kill the low content guys (especially bad post:content ratio guys).
Lots of people look slightly bad to me but nobody looks extremely bad. Such is D1 I suppose. Will ##Unvote, ##Vote: Raikaria because I want there to be a wagon supporting me while I sleep. Bad post:content ratio is my issue with almost all the people who look slightly bad but at least you can say Serela and Nuxl have made time to try while they were around?
I remember Refa asked me something about zwerdjib, will have to get back to him on that.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?
zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
for future reference i'm usually conservative on posting my reads publicly. the mentality of how you are perceived versus what you might say could impact thread flow and scum reaction is a dilemma i face every day
dancehello
reading up
dancehello
reading up
AGAIN with the weirdly synced posts
this is true. however a certain goat invited me to this game
god help me if he flakes on me like he did when he invited me to play 451
he rolled scum without me and thus did not post for all of d1 ;)
im fairly certain that case was the exception to the rule, and he should be able to answer that better himself. the game is specifically the most recent ranked game on 451
Had a bad gut reaction to this. Fishing is too strong of a word, but it doesn't seem like the thought process is coming from town. "perhaps your death will benefit the town in some way" is like...well firstly you shouldn't know I'm town, but also it's a weird justification.
Also uh Zwerd, I don't get why you decided to unvote Shadoweh in reaction to Dormio's post.
##Vote: Zwerdjib
Didn't read anything off of Shadoweh's vote. I don't see the scum benefit (...isn't there another word? It's like motive but...different) in OMGUSing in RVS. Zwerd's justification for not being bothered by it was fine honestly, although the NNR vote confuses me.
I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh
Damn zeep loved getting stepped on by refa
tommy if you read all 12 pages of this thread in one sitting ill sheep your vote
asking this because on my homesite a few players have >90% confidence reads on each other on which you're better off just sheeping given your read on that person
I'm European I do twice that on a regular basis
I don't really like Raikaria, but I also am not sure I should actually vote them, because they say they'll be a lot more available later and I can get being really busy during the first couple days of the game (e.g. me) but at the same time, it's not like they haven't posted; it's just that the posts they DID make are... completely irrelevant? They spent a post giving a summary of motk meta, but also, didn't actually comment on the ongoing game other than "huh, nuxl and zwerd talk a lot".
well they're busy and I don't have any real comment to make on the game pre-page-7 either so i guess that's fair enough, what else is here HMM
Zwerd is either scum who likes playing scum way more than town or is town and is trying to impress his eimm friends with his mafia skills , I think it's the secondthis is my read on him exactly except I don't actually know him. Idk he reads like every eager fairly-competent-for-a-new-guy newb I've ever played with. maybe I am underestimating him!!
Zwerd is either scum who likes playing scum way more than town or is town and is trying to impress his eimm friends with his mafia skills , I think it's the secondi hate playing as scum
hi Dan. kind of surprised your first post in the thread is townreading me since I don't think I've been towntelling very hard this game.
I basically had the same thought wrt Serela especially since I remember Serela becoming a lot more competent near the end of MotK mafia's lifespan.
The thing is that I think it's actually a totally reasonable point to go after Raikaria for stalling while having indicated reading the thread, even if it feels easy and it's his only point.
this is my read on him exactly except I don't actually know him. Idk he reads like every eager fairly-competent-for-a-new-guy newb I've ever played with. maybe I am underestimating him!!
Arthur's push on Nuxl is valid.
I think I may be able to explain the gut reaction though.
From Conq's perspective, Shadoweh was trying to apply a meta read to RVS, which doesn't make sense and would be bad hunting (aka possibly scummy). Shadoweh's response isn't good, but if you look at her followup posts this whole thing can be viewed as a triple word score "Just joking ... unless? Also flirty" poke at Conq. Which tbf is still scummy but who can resist a triple?
Dormio's OMGUS attack on Shadoweh is pretty meh, given how players have been surprised with the amount of posts in this thread. It seemed like an excuse for voteparking, which is going to make this next point kind of awkward ...
Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid. Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.
Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum
I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it.
Both Oarfish and Sb are likely town.explain both but sb especially as sb seems very null to me
Oh I 100% meant that if he posted I didn't see it, I'll look at it.
Wait this is the post he did before I voted wtf don't confuse me sb
SB - if I (as town) somehow knew that Zwerdjib was town, I would still view Nuxl as scummy. Nuxl says "this person is town; I will defend this person" which at face value is only slightly valuable. His defense is that Zwerdjib reminds him of some other player which means Zwerdjib is town somehow ... and the threat to defend him was a joke. This is such poor play it's worthy of ridicule. Tell me SB, am I wasting everyone's time by pressing him on this?
explain both but sb especially as sb seems very null to me
We should lynch someone today.
Wait does this forum actually autocorrect to fire truck hahaha that's so funny I thought everyone was just really good at censoring but now I realise everyone is just titled af
There is a word filter but it can be turned off locally in one's profile page (under the Look and Layout options).
Shhh I was trying to pretend I'm catching up to thread organically you're gonna modspew me
I don't really like Raikaria, but I also am not sure I should actually vote them, because they say they'll be a lot more available later and I can get being really busy during the first couple days of the game (e.g. me) but at the same time, it's not like they haven't posted; it's just that the posts they DID make are... completely irrelevant? They spent a post giving a summary of motk meta, but also, didn't actually comment on the ongoing game other than "huh, nuxl and zwerd talk a lot".
We should lynch someone today.
What scum want is to run out the clock. Town is trying to get a bunch of useful information before the lynch. Scum will try to prevent most or all of the day's posts from being useful after the lynch. Thus, scum will make (or let) town waste time and energy doing unproductive things such as reading tons of low-content posts. Players are lazy and don't want to read that much. Have you seen how many people complain about the number of pages in this thread?
##vote: abuhumaidW-why!? :<
NNR that is either the funniest scumslip or the lamest NOCslip.
##Unvote
##Vote: NNR
visible confusion
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
W-why!? :<
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.I don't like this vote. The reasoning behind it is sheepy + [insert false accusations here]
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
I mean there wasn't a lot to comment on. It was mostly just two people rambleing and talking largely about ~Meta~ which I addressed.
This is bad. Like really; really bad.
What scum want is irrelevant/fluffy discussion; yes.
But town is absolutely no way benefits from cutting discussion early. That is 100% a pro-scum move. More talking means to to go from. Even if there's fluff; low-effort and potentially posts which lead people up the wrong tree; there will still be things useful to town.
Cutting discussion early only ever benefits scum. Because there's less to make a case from. So you're advocating a move which doesn't help town and helps scum.
Even worse; you say 'we should lynch someone today' and then... don't vote for anyone or make a case. Suggesting you're happy with us lynching ~anyone~ today. Or perhaps you're happy just jumping on or pushing a wagon to get a lynch today to shut discussion early.
##Unovte
## Vote: O4rfish
This post reeks of scum.
Warning for future readers Abu is probably scum but is also probably gonna pocket me
I would have really liked a bit of specification on what the "scumslip" was here? I don't immediately see anything wrong with NNR's post. Kinda helps to convince people t follow a case when you... uh... explain your case.
That said; with only 1 vote on NNR at the time of O4rfish's vote it dosen't look like just jumping on a wagon like I was concerned O4rfish was implying was possible with the previous post I quoted from him. I still don't like him at this point however.
Also zwerdjib does the same thing right after.
4:visible confusionThe irony in this statement is rather large.
please restate why you are voting. provide a quote. i am very lost right now.
also, i dont like this wagon hop. hard scumlean
Do you think that someone who suggests lynching D1 as if it is not a given but an actual idea is the type of person to strategically try cut discussion as scum?
I think I was right though
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched.
An addendum: I have won exactly 1 (one) game of Mafia, and that was due to a blatant scumslip which I jumped on.
Raikaria - we are in d1, so today is d1. I realize now that I should have phrased that differently.
The irony in this statement is rather large.
i feel like you just read 5 posts per page and called it a day
how much of the exchange did you read
3:
I would have really liked a bit of specification on what the "scumslip" was here? I don't immediately see anything wrong with NNR's post. Kinda helps to convince people t follow a case when you... uh... explain your case.
That said; with only 1 vote on NNR at the time of O4rfish's vote it dosen't look like just jumping on a wagon like I was concerned O4rfish was implying was possible with the previous post I quoted from him. I still don't like him at this point however.
Also zwerdjib does the same thing right after.
4:
The irony in this statement is rather large.
W-why!? :<what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
Warning for future readers Abu is probably scum but is also probably gonna pocket mecan you talk more about both parts of this statement?
@raikaria I was making a new wagon before I went to sleep to see if it gained any traction. re: the votes on shadoweh; they havent evolved much, but shadoweh also hasn't done much since then and my vote felt stale (although the reasons for voting her havent disappeared). will catch up on other stuff in a bit.
i was going to ask you about your oarfish vote but you'd moved off that since apparently it was a misreading? would like to see where you go next i guess.
pop some comprehensive thoughts smh
Quite a selective quote. The irony came from the fact that in my previous point I called you and O4rfish out for making NNR votes claiming a 'scumslip' without ever highlighting what this alleged 'scumslip' was.
Hence you calling people out for not making cases was ironic.
Just popping in to apologize for inactivity, I'm pretty busy right now. And I honestly didn't expect that volume of posts (noob mistake I guess). And still can't really read much from them. I'll try to catch up later today.Uh, just give us any thoughts you have at all regarding the game. They can be freeform if you want.
Oh, and I have no idea who Flee Fleet is.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
can you talk more about both parts of this statement?
I got the wrong end of the stick. Combined with me stating previously that I generally agreed with O4rfish's later posts, and I see no reason to continue voting for him.Okay, sure. But who do you want to vote for now?
the scumslip should have been obvious from context
Okay, sure. But who do you want to vote for now?
##unvote
##vote abuhumaid
fine with trying this after a skim of his iso
ah dammit raik just invalidated my post lemme read it
Actually; I've seen something I dislike.
##Vote: Duskfall98
Duskfall hasn't done much, and a lot of what he has done is non-content. But there's also quite a few things I don't think are good.
#371 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1167#msg1167) is bad because well... just saying you're not reading someone's posts indicates potential apathy; low-effort and not scumhunting Dormio.
#372 he states he kind of agrees with Refa's reasons for voting for Zwerdjib. Keep this in mind.
#378 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1174#msg1174) he gives a townread but no reasoning for it.
#382 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1178#msg1178) is really weird. It's ruling out Scum Zwerdjib due to a guess on his mentality? Also he dosen't elaborate on why he thinks Zwerdjib could be 'scum that is enjoying being scum'. Don't most people prefer being scum over town anyway?
#387 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1183#msg1183) - calls out a 'bad post' from O4rfish with no explanation.
#393 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1189#msg1189) - And why does his next post ping town? And why is it so town it over-rides the previous bad post?
And then he goes and votes randomly with no explanation for Abu (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1190#msg1190) despite not mentioning any of his posts; and having expressed potential scumreads on 2 other players, and agreeing with Refa's reasons for voting Zwej.
I don't like any of this.
SB - I guess someone could have a townread this early, and be confident enough to suspect people who vote for them, but I don't buy Nuxl making a faction read based on Zwerdjib's posting style reminding Nuxl of Caffeine's posting style, especially when one of two facts mentioned about Caffeine is that they are scummy as town and towny as scum.
bullstrawberriesting
Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
You said "actually I found something I dislike"
But then mention 6 different things, do you think there's a possibility you are confbiasing considering you piled on a load of allegedly scummy things I have done? Or do you think you honestly just didn't notice 6 different scummy things I did in the last few pages?
Conq, were you more bothered by the early Abu posts or the later ones?later posts. the early posts were fine for when they were made but i guess it's the general lack of progression in reads from the slot as a whole, is how i can explain it best.
Well; it's not obvious to me. If it's 'obvious' elaboration should be no problem.
Different people see things different ways. What's 'obvious' to you is not 'obvious' to others. You need to convince people to vote with you. Reasons for votes should be explained.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.
can you talk more about both parts of this statement?
Abu is a typical mu tryhardThis is staright up lying. I've never actually tried hard in a mafia game outside my home site (MAL); on MU my posts always had a sarcastic/strawberriesposting tone.
I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.ah okay. why did you think he voted you specifically for that given general game inactivity? that would be like half the game.
Activity =/= tryhard
You can be active while having no real content in your posts. Are you trolling?
Btw zwerd it's not a scumslip if you can debate over it being a scumslipyou say that but people genuinely debated on whether 1610 was a scumslip and then lynched the guy who the scum slipped about wanting to frame.
It's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
you say that but people genuinely debated on whether 1610 was a scumslip and then lynched the guy who the scum slipped about wanting to frame.
I don't think Abu has answered my old question? Abu, why was NNR's case bad enough to make you unvote Nuxl but not vote NNR? Did you just forget or something? It feels awkward to me.Your question about zwerd? I did answer it. And I didn't vote NNR because I was still reading his posts then got distracted.
Have you never played with someone whos posting style is just hard to read so you don't? I know Eurykins wasn't on MotK but I don't think it's townie or scummy to not want to read into an awkward looking post during D1, just kinda lazy. It's more relevant later on (when trying to have reads on the whole living playerlist matters more) but not now.
I'm not referring to you figuring out what Oarfish's initial post meant and changing your read because of that, I'm saying that both of you made generic comments on "their more recent content is better than their older posts" and so I don't get why that's a problem. Duskfall expressed mixed feelings on Oarfish but no such feelings towards Abu so wouldn't this justify their vote?
WHY DO YOU ALL KEEP POSTING
#371 (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1167#msg1167) is bad because well... just saying you're not reading someone's posts indicates potential apathy; low-effort and not scumhunting Dormio.
am curious; what do you think of dormio doing the same with oars posts
Yeah but unless I am severely illiterate I remember you saying that you didn't like them at first @Duskfall
later posts. the early posts were fine for when they were made but i guess it's the general lack of progression in reads from the slot as a whole, is how i can explain it best.
define Question12
{
To clarify, is (zwerdjib) saying that I'm not reading (O4rfish)'s posts, or are you referring to the comment I made regarding (NekoNekoRex)?
}
if (Reply #460 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1264#msg1264))
{
ask (Question12)
}
I said their first post was bad which I stand by but that doesn't mean scummy
define Statement17
{
I feel as though I have read through (O4rfish)'s posts and the latest posts that (O4rfish) has made don't change my mind regarding (O4rfish).
}
query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Statement17)
return (Opinions)
}
Hey SB, why is Raikaria scum? I'm sure you've explained this and so have other people but I haven't read it and kinda want to know what's going on with the biggest wagons if nothing else.
Nothing I've read from Oarfish has made me want to lynch him.
Rai's Oarfish vote felt really easy? Like, it feels like a such a given to me that it wasn't going to be today in realtime, so if that's the only reason you put the vote down then I'm not really happy with it. I guess the progression towards unvoting is believable enough but also kinda null. Cut: not big on the Duskfall vote because I think it frames a couple of posts unnecessarily badly ("due to an assumption on mentality" is weird because uh, Mafia is all about making assumptions and exploring them from there). Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
His Duskfall read bothers me because it feels more like...he's framing Duskfall as scum over naturally coming to that conclusion? I don't know how to explain this better. I get the same vibe from his Oarfish vote, but is it worse than other Oarfish votes? You've been keeping up better than me so please answer this.
Literally posted like a whole page to myself dummy
Okay never mind, I read your post you slacker.
His Duskfall read bothers me because it feels more like...he's framing Duskfall as scum over naturally coming to that conclusion? I don't know how to explain this better. I get the same vibe from his Oarfish vote, but is it worse than other Oarfish votes? You've been keeping up better than me so please answer this.
@Conqueror @Duskfall I don't get your Abu vote. Not like, I disagree with it, but I don't get what Abu did that was scummy.
by the way your posts are still hardly comprehensive
Comprehensive or comprehensible?
...comprehensible. touché.
@Conqueror @Duskfall I don't get your Abu vote. Not like, I disagree with it, but I don't get what Abu did that was scummy.I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
My vote started off as him being underwhelming and it was more a let's see what this does than anything else
Since then over the last few pages he has spiraled downwards by
1) reaction to being brought to slight attention was bad
2) he has flip flopped a lot quickly with little reason
3) he didn't give any reads when asked several times, didn't even say he had none just kinda dipped out and avoided answering
I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
Sorry what do you not understand lmao
refa, duskfall was talking about abu
How do I iso
Who was Dormio on before? Zeep? I can see why you'd call them an easy target in terms of content but they're also posting too much for me to call it an easy vote to maintain in good faith.
I do think that I should have a more solid read on Dormio by now than I actually do, though.
I don't think his thinking duskfall voted him for activity makes sense (unless abu has a lurkscum meta, in which case abu's inactivity becomes relevant in a different way) and also at this point it seems like he's avoiding putting out reads.
I can get behind that! What do you think the scum intent is for voting Duskfall? Actually uh, has Duskfall been under a lot of suspicion because that would answer that question.no, i meant, this.
##vote: abuhumaid(for the sake of context, this was an empty vote and the only mention of abu in dusk's iso)
W-why!? :<
I think I know why though; I'll try to read for real this time.
what's the reason you think he voted you for? the vote is the only time he mentions you at all.
I thought he voted me because I wasn't active enough? Because I get voted for that quite often in games as either alignment, and I can link you games if you want.
ah, this is probably because you don't have as much history with scum!serela. as scum, serela has a history of having trouble faking scumreads on town, and it looked like he might have been doing that by the way he was talking about non-game-related stuff while aggressively avoiding any game talk. i've dropped it since i thought his posts when he caught up were okay enough.
Duskfall, what's your read on Nuxl?
@Conq Oh, sorry for misreading again. Still okay with the reasoning I think. I know this happened a while back BTW but I don't really get why you had a Serela suspicion in the middle of the game for his RVS content. This bothered me moreso with Prims voteswitch but it felt like you were both getting on his case for something that I don't see any scum intent out of and I don't remember either of you addressing Serela's response.
Everything he has done is believable in a town game but it is not so towny to make him a town read, nuxl isn't really readable D1 though imo, town him has more stamina than scum him over the game as a whole
ah, this is probably because you don't have as much history with scum!serela. as scum, serela has a history of having trouble faking scumreads on town, and it looked like he might have been doing that by the way he was talking about non-game-related stuff while aggressively avoiding any game talk. i've dropped it since i thought his posts when he caught up were okay enough.i guess i'll clarify that "okay enough" is a relative thing because objectively, serela came in, waffled over a bunch of people and then parked on a zero poster, but my vote trajectory has not been much better tbh and i dont aggressively disagree with anything he's done given gamestate.
Dormio, characterizing my vote for Shadoweh as "opportunistic" is weird. She posted this explanation (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1034#msg1034) of her vote, and then turned it into this explanation (http://this explanation), so I voted her.
I still think Nuxl is probably scum, but he hasn't posted anything in the last ... I was going to say 18 hours but that is incorrect. And he hasn't made any statements about other players in even longer.
Refa, seriously?
Duskfall, did you explain this post (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1197#msg1197)? What is a modspew?
That post was a joke
hey sexy
i got the name wrong because i hadn't gotten up to rereading 274 posts yet actually.
im not sure how much reading i can take in such a short time, I'm getting mental fatigue just trying to read all this strawberries.
voting is something i should be doing though and there is conveniently a votecount after my post so
##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.
being all cryptic and pushing people to make opinions for you is gay and lame
Maybe, but it's a thing people do on my site too and it's predominantly town aligned (see: apricity) XD
I can't believe you just XDed
define Statement23
{
As for why I would prefer to vote for (zwerdjib), in addition to (zwerdjib) trying to shut down my discussion with regards to (Shadoweh) during early day 1, it's due to the fact that (zwerdjib) repeatedly justifies other people's actions.
}
define Statement24
{
Defending somebody else's actions is something that only I should be allowed to do and it looks incredibly scummy to me when somebody else is doing it.
}
define Statement25
{
Overall, it just feels to me as though (zwerdjib) is trying to shut down certain lines of discussion and that feels scummy to me.
}
if (Reply #503 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1308#msg1308))
{
cout <<(Statement23)
cout <<(Statement24)
cout <<(Statement25)
}
As for why I would prefer to vote for zwerdjib, in addition to zwerdjib trying to shut down my discussion with regards to Shadoweh during early day 1, it's due to the fact that zwerdjib repeatedly justifies other people's actions. Defending somebody else's actions is something that only I should be allowed to do and it looks incredibly scummy to me when somebody else is doing it. Overall, it just feels to me as though zwerdjib is trying to shut down certain lines of discussion and that feels scummy to me.
@Duskfall98 i'm at around 5/9, maybe 6. what about you?
I still think it looks like he's faking enthusiasm.TBH I am unenthused about this game as town because it's been a hard to read, low-content D1. I am still town though. I will act disproportionately passionate as all alignments for rhetorical purposes.
Am OK with Raikaria lynch too; looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced was good, which I thought was good.should read "looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced, which I thought was good."
Agree Abu has been underwhelming. I was hoping he'd have more to say when coming back near the end of the day but it seems like the opposite happened.
##Unvote
##Vote: Abu
Doesn't seem like what NNR said should have been strong enough to make him drop the Nuxl vote without a stronger target. Sticking around to defend himself instead of getting a vote back down is poor priorities this late in the day IMO.
Also Dormio I don't think Abu is very new? At least he seems experienced enough that I wouldn't buy him being an "overwhelmed newbie".
Am OK with Raikaria lynch too; looks like he's chasing after perceived bad play in a way where I think it is easy for scum to pick a target then attack, which matches with the point about his Duskfall case potentially being forced was good, which I thought was good.
Nothing new from Serela... Nuxl still needs to have like, any sort of priorities regarding the lynch. It's funny Duskfall says his scum meta is to have low stamina because having low stamina is basically how I've been reading him here.
Overall Raikaria/Abu wagons seem good to me. It's a lot of votes to lynch and we've got less than 24 hours left, so people should start consolidating. This means people like Dormio, Xinnidy, NNR, SHADOWEH who are on 1-vote targets, unless those targets can also become wagons.
I personally don't want to lynch NNR or zwerd btw.
I've pretty much just been mirroring Conq's opinions on everything recently so I hope he's town lol.
Think people are being too quick to townread SB; having played with both SB and Refa a lot they're both very good at writing posts as both alignments. Not scumreading either atm though.
TBH I am unenthused about this game as town because it's been a hard to read, low-content D1. I am still town though. I will act disproportionately passionate as all alignments for rhetorical purposes.
2: The topic of townreads has come up a few times, and I'm of the opinion that giving out townreads; especially at this phase of the game, does little but paint a target on people's backs [if they are indeed town] for the scum to target. I don't think we should be giving out townreads D1.
Everything he has done is believable in a town game but it is not so towny to make him a town read, nuxl isn't really readable D1 though imo, town him has more stamina than scum him over the game as a whole
Nuxl what causes this power spike?
define Question13
{
Who the hell is (Arthur)?
}
define Question14
{
I think somebody asked this before, but can we refer to people by their forum usernames?
}
define Statement35
{
Not all of us are familiar with the alternate handles that people go by and it makes things far more difficult than they have to be.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
ask (Question13)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
ask (Question14)
ask (Statement35)
}
who told you i was a respectable player? i don't think i've ever played with youI remember you were in a SF game and got killed early although I only skimmed it and don't really remember it. Probably had read smogon games with you in them before too. Basically I purge my brain of mafia-related information as much as possible now and only remember the vague details.
Raikaria is generally not a high-experience player. I think his posting here is consistent with his meta as either alignment.
Regarding Niek, he hasn't posted enough to reliably tell that he's not being coached. There are too many factors to consider here - availability of a scum!Niek's buddies, how much he actually would be listening to them as scum before posting, etc. I get the impression he's reserved and that pings me as possibly not wanting to mess up.
zwerd is a high confidence town read: there's something very stilted about his play that doesn't seem to have a real agenda behind it. he reads as low experience and it seems too pure but also wild and wacky to be what i'd expect of people newer to forum mafia. certain level of wanting to be inquisitive but not actually accomplishing anything, which reminds me a lot of caffeineboost on my homesite who ends up being a lot less composed as town as opposed to scum. this is my highest confidence townread. this is also part of my second job!
I... am not sure how to feel about this.
im still pretty happy with my vote on zwerd. After coming back to this thread after a day or so he has gone from posting loads of garbage to barely posting, and still posting almost nothing of value. He's also still sitting on the vote on me without really... scumhunting.
The buddy-up with nuxl that he's been doing the whole game is kinda worrisome
1) Abu is outside his town meta from mu, you know this is true because he agreed with meMeta man bad. Automatic frown.
2) I'm very easily pocketed and he seemed like he was gonna try pocket me considering he agreed with my scumread of him
Dl is in less than 24 hours and it's apparently maj not plural rule so your vote probably wouldn't be doing anythingyou'll have to give me a post number, I'm on a different setting for posts per page
Which of the lead wagons would you vote for? Can you respond to my inquiries on page 18?
you'll have to give me a post number, I'm on a different setting for posts per page
see the funny part about these are none of these are inherently scummy hahaha. it's pretty ignorant assume these traits are universally tied to an alignment across different sites, isn't it? (regarding the fact that multiple people are calling specific meta bad while also trying to apply general concepts that definitely wouldn't apply to every player universally because of different site backgrounds and skill level, which is where stuff like pmeta is actually important to come in)meta is bad. Look for scumslips and scum arguments, not gotcha games "he only does this as scum"
so if hypothetically you can chalk these things up to something like site culture (e.g saying meta is bad or scummy, where on other sites people use it both as, either alignment, and as an effective tool to solve someone's alignment) how does your read develop on me with this in mind?
when did i dodge questions bee tee dubs
Maybe, but it's a thing people do on my site too and it's predominantly town aligned (see: apricity) XDscumhunting is town. having opinions is town. not showing opinions and just jumping on wagons is bad and scum
Conq is on my watchlist. I see him asking lots of questions but not looking for scum.lmao at this
post 500 edit: Might retract that, he's looking for scum now.
meta is bad. Look for scumslips and scum arguments, not gotcha games "he only does this as scum"
scumhunting is town. having opinions is town. not showing opinions and just jumping on wagons is bad and scum
I like Raikaria. Good effortposts, good reads. Kinda disagree with the wagon on him, "his cases are too easy" feels like a real cheap shot and if he's lynched and flips town I'd take a good hard look at his wagon for scum
No one has said this about Raikaria.I mean, people have
im still pretty happy with my vote on zwerd. After coming back to this thread after a day or so he has gone from posting loads of garbage to barely posting, and still posting almost nothing of value. He's also still sitting on the vote on me without really... scumhunting.
prims is gay as usual. Kinda like dan.I just realized how this could be misinterpreted but it's accurate at the same time regardless so whatever
Abu is at L-4 and Raikaria is at L-6. NNR, Shadoweh, Xinnidy, Raikaria are on 1-vote wagons. NNR and Shadoweh are our 2-vote wagons.
Wait, do we need to hammer? How much time is left?
People are gonna end up in wonky timezones but it's more about what you do while you're around imo
define Question15
{
Which of the reasons are flawed?
}
define Question16
{
I get that (zwerdjib) has mentioned that (AbuHumaid) might not be around due to timezones, but how does that create flaws in any of the reasons provided?
// You're right, I do dislike the fact that you're defending other people again.
}
query (zwerdjib)
{
ask (Question15)
ask (Question16)
return (Opinions)
}
define Question17In that case, I'll reread the thread and try to figure out who are his teammates, I have plenty of time during the Night and no one would be posting.
{
Hypotheically speaking, assuming that the (Duskfall98) lynch goes through, who would (AbuHumaid) shoot in this scenario?
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
This is literally what I expect from scum trying to buy themselves a day lol. No crumbs or anything in your play suggesting you're vig.Are you serious??? Why in the hell would I crumb that I'm a vig?
I feel like I'm reading a different game because I thought Raikaria looked town and wanted to vote SB for going after him, then suddenly everyone agrees and is okay with a Raikaria lynch. I did just read about 6 pages at once though and the words are blurry in my head but uh, no i don't think Raik is scum.Ok so this is the only thing shadoweh's posted in a long time (no verification needed; she said she just read 6 pages!) and I really thought I was gonna see more from her after this but there's NOT and this was like 6.5 hours ago
"You didn't aggressively go after prims after voting him" he didn't post?? Did you expect me to force him out of the ether or something? :V His latest post didn't change my mind, I still think it looks like he's faking enthusiasm.
define Question18I scumread NNR due to his suspicious Nuxl vote
{
So what you're essentially saying is that you have no scumreads outside of your counterwagon?
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Question18)
return (Opinions)
}
but abu what about the statistically much more likely case that he's town and therefore you can probably have a second priority -before- his flipI mean, we could lynch someone else while I vig Dusk?
since a town lynch does still get us info but considering how late he entered the game and that it's only D1, not a huge amountOk so this is the only thing shadoweh's posted in a long time (no verification needed; she said she just read 6 pages!) and I really thought I was gonna see more from her after this but there's NOT and this was like 6.5 hours ago
she's pretty much just sitting on her safe Arthur/prims vote that isn't actually going anywhere, and doing a whole lot of Nothing
shadoweh is actually a Good Player. It's fair for me to expect more than this. For like the third time man is this what all my scum picks are gonna be this game; it's not inherently scummy to be busy but it's scummy when you don't actually contribute anything when you clearly ARE reading the game
i would be ok with lynching shadoweh if people want to let Abu try to shoot people but also leaving Abu alive to supposedly shoot people can easily turn into a huge mess whether he's actually town or not-town and it's just so much easier to have it over with instead. but I mean, shadoweh is being scummy, so lynching her is still fine. abu is also good. really these are both good lynches
strawberries wait I didn't go to bed NO
define Statement37Then who do you suggest we lynch, and who do you suggest I vig?
{
(NekoNekoRex) is not a vig option.
}
query (abuHumaid)
{
ask (Statement37)
loop (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
Are you serious??? Why in the hell would I crumb that I'm a vig?so that this situation doesn't happen, for one. A claim that would buy the lynchee time is always suspicious if it doesn't match their post history. crumb does not have to be something extremely obvious that would get you blocked
I think we should vote Dusk for literally lying about my meta + having no reasons to vote (he developed them on the go) also the fact that a lot of people hopped on my wagon so fast could mean that his scummates are backing him up.why would scum!Dusk see the need to have the scumteam turbowagon you suddenly at the end of the day? Note that the alternatives were not people on your wagon. This doesn't seem like a thought-out attack to me, which is why you're reading like scum trying to sow end-of-day chaos with this and the vig claim to avoid a lynch this early. What do you think scum!Dusk's gameplan here is? Also, why is this only coming out now that you're a major lynch target and not when you initially responded to Dusk...?
OK this is the good Serela then. Sry for doubting you bae (handheart)I wasn't really present enough to crumb my role, I was having trouble catching up (and I still am) so it did not cross my mind.
so that this situation doesn't happen, for one. A claim that would buy the lynchee time is always suspicious if it doesn't match their post history. crumb does not have to be something extremely obvious that would get you blocked
why would scum!Dusk see the need to have the scumteam turbowagon you suddenly at the end of the day? Note that the alternatives were not people on your wagon. This doesn't seem like a thought-out attack to me, which is why you're reading like scum trying to sow end-of-day chaos with this and the vig claim to avoid a lynch this early. What do you think scum!Dusk's gameplan here is? Also, why is this only coming out now that you're a major lynch target and not when you initially responded to Dusk...?
define Statement38Well, I don't really have solid scum reads other than those two, but as I said I'll reread the thread during the Night and see because I've pretty much given up on catching up during the Day.
{
I'm pretty sure I've made my stance on who I want lynched pretty clear.
}
define Statement39
{
What I'm asking now is who (AbuHumaid) thinks (AbuHumaid) should shoot if (Duskfall98) is lynched and (NekoNekoRex) is not an option, and some reasoning so as to why.
}
query (AbuHumaid)
{
ask (Statement38)
ask (Statement39)
loop (Question17)
return (Opinions)
}
It's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
The 'thing I don't like' is your general lack of explanations. Those are examples. I didn't like it before but at the time thought O4rfish was worse. You're really splitting hairs.
if (Reply #616 (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1437#msg1437))
{
loop (Statement40)
}
Mostly because that was a poor answer in response to Prim's question regarding not showing up to apply a vote/pressure on Dusk. The correct answer is not "I was about to sleep so I didn't get into it", its "I'm sitting on a vig with no apparent agency otherwise and bidding my time to press the button MUWHAHAHA".What does that even mean? How's me going to sleep a bad response? Are you suggesting I should be threatening people instead?
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.Already explained that here: https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1206#msg1206
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends at
so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
i dont have many opinions on the abu vig thing, though i would like him to explain why he agreed with me on nnrs sudden vote being scummy
which i assume is what he will be working on when he does his read-through
so for now i wont vote him
Already explained that here: https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1206#msg1206
honestly i'm kind of staring and rereading at the thread and i say i'm really typing a big post but i keep typing one out and deleting it. i honestly just want to go back to playing mystery dungeon.
@anyone do modkills end day on this site?
i have no idea why my wagon diffused so fast and not exactly sure why they're all so spread out as a result which is strange given my initial expectations of the wagon on me. duskfall and zwer are bad lynches right now so uh lol
@Dormio i have no clue how your read progressed on me, was there a particular post in question or something? i thought i was doing a pretty good job of conveying my mentality earlier from page one so i dunno how it changed from your view
@shadoweh can you define "easier" in regards to your comment on voting me in question? why are raik/dormio town iyo?
@abu what does niek's vote on me make you think of my slot?
@Conq unrelated but i actually disagree with you about pressure! there are people i do townread and there are people that i do not townread. not lynching the people i do townread is a good idea which for the most part does not seem to be happening. i would've voted if i had a high confidence ping elsewhere, i didn't. i was and is fine with how this day is progressing. it's progressing without me. that's completely ok.
@arthur when tommy says low stamina he means games where i idle day phase d2 onwards because i don't have the heart/don't care about my team or game/want to tank my scum meta for the sake of my town meta. he finds it a lot harder to read me than it is for me to read him, so my reads on him are a lot more accurate than his on me. can link you to proportional examples if you're really interested.
who told you i was a respectable player? i don't think i've ever played with you
but honestly though, the only accurate read i care on me is tommy's read of me hahaha. and funnily enough, both for oog and ingame reasons (but not the ingame reason you may be thinking of)
@anyone that is not raikaria: is this a real thought you expect from raikaria? again, if someone really experienced posted this it would be pretty garbage so that's why i'm asking
i know you say this to me in pms but literally look at any scum d1 i've ever had, count the number of posts in those dude. i am readable :)
see immortality/shots where i kept linking my self meta and nobody read it
(also believe it or not the only person i'd tryhard scum with on my team is you on this pl bc you invited me to play. you know how much i hate playing noc with randoms. maybe if my team was exactly 3 other people you probably have in mind?)
----
my "2" earlier were my townreads at the time of that post. "5/9" are my current townreads. roughly ordered
zwerd is a high confidence town read: there's something very stilted about his play that doesn't seem to have a real agenda behind it. he reads as low experience and it seems too pure but also wild and wacky to be what i'd expect of people newer to forum mafia. certain level of wanting to be inquisitive but not actually accomplishing anything, which reminds me a lot of caffeineboost on my homesite who ends up being a lot less composed as town as opposed to scum. this is my highest confidence townread. this is also part of my second job!
refa's posting aligns with my vision of his posting in danganronpa/ocnoc2 and their reads are p fine. i have never seen their scumgame though but i think i can predict how it'd go
i think oarfish is a tier 2 town given what people are saying about their skill! but their mentality is really dangerous and i don't think they're the type of player to change that within the span of one game.
(wrt my last sentence @duskfall98, to phrase this less uh, toxic-ally, i have the same opinion as i did on similar slots in shots noc SPECIFICALLY in regards to vote placement, you can figure this out right)
tommy (duskfall) is town first for angleshoot reasons, but also for two specific reasons, both of which are something that exposes his meta since for all future nocs you won't see me in a playerlist without him. so i won't expose them so i can use them later. getting this read right was also my first job!
conq's inquisitiveness reminds me of how i used to play town before i started adapting hal's style into my play.(which is more optimal on my homesite anyway but is probably barred by site culture here) real time interactions are fine here and says particular stuff/does particular approaches i would say six months/1 year ago. admittedly this is the weakest read but there's not a lot to think about and i tend to be pretty damn accurate about my d1 towncores :)
i have possibly one more to add here but need to see how that progresses
----
close enough to deadline where it's ok for me to start talking about some other things
abu: not a lot on this slot you can really gather based on iso. the slot also just feels pretty lazy regardless of alignment. my initial thought was that he jumped onto my wagon that was building heavily because i (was/am) an easy target but i don't really get... why he switched off. i can see one motive but i don't know if most people would be able to think about it. not too opposed to hopping on but would prefer raik given a response. @tommy how was playing with this guy otherwise. i'll be on near deadline but can you link me your favorite game you've played with him. same with @abu if you read this
niek is either not being coached or his scumteam is really inexperienced, i think. i would usually say the former read but i just played a game where i gave someone a pass for that but it turns out their scumteam was just bottom quarter. i think this is useful to consider if it flips red! but it's probably more scum often than not if the other 3(or 4 if people don't want to include me) townreads can be found on a higher confidence, just like the last game i played on smogon
shadoweh: feels dissociated with thread regardless of alignment, so if somebody can tell me if that's a regular thing lmk. their thing on page 4 kinda irked me a bit + things i'm trying to ask them about but that's about it. seems kind on a different wavelength which is probably also related to experience/pmeta. so if this is unusual for anyone else's vision of shadoweh then uh, note it!
raik: this read is pending based on what others think of their experience but the two major things are the quote i just said which indicates lack of "normal" thought and the second vote onto tommy being really bad. higher experience means worse slot obviously, someone said they should be posting better(i think it was conq?) so if someone can get back to me on that pls let me know
I think we should vote Dusk for literally lying about my meta + having no reasons to vote (he developed them on the go) also the fact that a lot of people hopped on my wagon so fast could mean that his scummates are backing him up.can you explain what he lied about and who are the scummates backing him up on the wagon (i lean town on basically everyone who was voting you so im curious who you pick out)
i would be ok with lynching shadoweh if people want to let Abu try to shoot people but also leaving Abu alive to supposedly shoot people can easily turn into a huge mess whether he's actually town or not-town and it's just so much easier to have it over with instead. but I mean, shadoweh is being scummy, so lynching her is still fine. abu is also good. really these are both good lynchesngl i would be down for a shadoweh turbo if we don't go through with abu (currently pending)
Mostly because that was a poor answer in response to Prim's question regarding not showing up to apply a vote/pressure on Dusk. The correct answer is not "I was about to sleep so I didn't get into it", its "I'm sitting on a vig with no apparent agency otherwise and bidding my time to press the button MUWHAHAHA".essentially
essentially
Dusk, who do you think is most likely to be maf besides Abu?
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.:thonk: i literally just tried to engage with you but lol okay. fine with the lynch if this is the response.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
:thonk: i literally just tried to engage with you but lol okay. fine with the lynch if this is the response.
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
Raik wasn't great, then I've a whole lot of null
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends at
so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
Who's town Mr conqwent ahead and looked at the playerlist since this will be useful for myself too
Zwerd I'll never have a problem with being scumread as long as it makes sense, but raik kinda just went, oh wait I just noticed something scummy:
Insert whole tunnel of scummy things, which is fair if you have been tunneling me but it's not really fair to say "oh wait just noticed"
Now it's not make or break, and I'm not saying raik was necessarily chainsawing but it's worth looking at tomorrow for sure imo
Ok thanks, you have not made me question your towniness on this daydo you have any spicy reads that arent the same as nuxl's?
Raikaria, if you didn't like Duskfall even when you voted O4rfish, why did you wait until you had to back off O4rfish before bringing it up? This seems like an unnatural progression.
This is literally what I expect from scum trying to buy themselves a day lol. No crumbs or anything in your play suggesting you're vig.
If I'm scum, you would expect some people at least to be against my wagon, but for some reason everyone agrees I'm scum...
I scumread NNR due to his suspicious Nuxl vote
Sidenote. lack of crumb is not important and I am surprised Prims cares for that.
I have the same townreads as nuxl
Abus claim doesn't make me want to unlynch, even if he is town vig which I doubt it's neg utility to let him live and shoot me who is town and also mostly townread o think?
So you want to lynch me regardless of my alignment just to save your butt?
You know what? Just lynch me, I couldn't care less anymore, it's not like anyone is hearing me.
Like seriously, people are voting me for half-assed reasons like Dan's and are getting away with it
fire truck this game, I'm out of here.
Zwerd I'll never have a problem with being scumread as long as it makes sense, but raik kinda just went, oh wait I just noticed something scummy:
Insert whole tunnel of scummy things, which is fair if you have been tunneling me but it's not really fair to say "oh wait just noticed"
do you have any spicy reads that arent the same as nuxl's?
[I've even specifically asked for explanations on the Shadoweh votes multiple times and they still haven't materialized].i'm fairly i've posted my explanation of the shadoweh votes multiple times and directed it to you. i dunno why you're just ignoring me but it's extremely frustating and i dunno if you;re doing i on purpose or what
don't vote abu obviously so nobody can accidentally/intentionally early hammer)
Because as I had previously stated, O4rfish's post I had previously disliked was in my opinion the worst post thus far in the thread. At the time; Duskfall was a minor dislike; and then when I re-read I felt worse about his posts, lack of explanations and seemingly random voting.
At best it's low-effort; at worst it's outright scummy; just throwing out random statements with no backing to look like he's trying at all.
You'll also notice I've been pretty consistent with being unhappy with people for voting with little~no explanation; and I've been pushing for people to actually explain their cases and votes. [I've even specifically asked for explanations on the Shadoweh votes multiple times and they still haven't materialized].
---
Anyway; I'm awake now; and I shall be around until deadline [Deadline is 10pm my local time]. I'm actually somewhat alarmed at how close Abu is to being lynched at this point; if I'm not wrong he's L-1.
I mean, Abu's content really isn't great and doesn't really scream town, but it also doesn't seem to scream scum either. It's kind of a null read.
So I'm not inherently against lynching him, although there's a few things about his wagon which seem a little concerning:
It's Day 1. Abu hasn't been that active. Why do you think he'd have crumbed Vig so early? Dismissing his claim because 'He hasn't crumbed Vig when he's got low content and it's Day 1' seems a little... pushy.
Or Scum could be happily letting Town push the wagon, or even be busing you thinking your lynch is likly; to earn towncred.
Serela in #599 and Dormio in #600 have good points.
If NNR is a scumread why isn't he a secondary vig option after Duskfall then?
I agree with this and it's good to see someone else thinks this.
*Groans*. Another low-effort post from Duskfall; where he's basically just sheeping. Do you have these townreads for the same reasons? Do you share the null/scumreads? I really don't like things like this.
I REALLY don't like Duskfall's 'I'm willing to lynch town to save my own butt' attitude here. Especially since if he's mostly townread and a vig has said he's gonna shoot him, a power role [blocker/doc ect] that townreads him would most likely intervene.
Also I'm unsure what is meant by 'open wolfing'.
I'm not sure if this is scum throwing in the towel because he can't answer the questions, or just general frustration? I'd like you to come back and actually try to save your skin if you're town.
---
tl;dr: I'm fine with an Abu lynch, although I have concerns about Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Touhou's pushing of said wagon; and Duskfall's 'Save my own butt' attitude.
I'd personally still rather lynch Duskfall, as his posts while I'm asleep don't townread to me on top of me already leaning scum on him.
I'm certainly not fine enough with an Abu lynch to hammer it 13 hours before deadline however.
Because I'd previously only read your posts once, and on a re-read I had a second opinion and went from null to scum. That makes sense.
And when I make cases I usually do so in such a fashion. I'll notice something I don't like; then re-read other posts and interactions around that player specifically to see if there's more, good or bad. It's like a stream of thoughts.
I don't like how you're waffling on the guy getting lynched. If you have no strong opinions about him, at least comment on his wagon. It just reads that you don't care and don't want to tie yourself to it. Biased here but this is kinda why I'm doubting Abu will flip scum TBH.
I don't get why Duskfall not wanting to get vigged is scummy. Yes, it's self preservation, but that's not inherently scummy. Maybe if Duskfall townread Abu, I'd get it, but he really didn't.
I don't get why you're fine with the lynch, or why you're throwing shade on Prims.
But... I literally commented on how I don't like Prims and Duskfall's methods of pushing his wagon? Did you even read my post to claim that? Most of my post was commenting on Abu's wagon.
Duskfall not wanting to get vigged is in itself not inherently scummy. No-one wants to be vigged. But Duskfall only seems to care about himself; not town in general. After all; a random vig is always going to have more chance to hit town than scum. And thus a vig without good reason should be avoided. I'd be less annoyed if Duskfall was concerned about it hitting town in general and not just saving his own hide. But he seems to be focused on saving his own hide, not town in general.
I'm leaning towards saying you didn't read my post with your fnal comment. I pointed out several things in Abu's posts I wasn't happy with. I'm fine with lynching Abu over most other players. Likewise; I'm unsure how you can't see why I'm unhappy with Prims. I think I explained it. Singleing me out for it is also odd; seeing as Actiondan has said the same thing.
You claim to have read the post you quote yet the conclusions and points you're drawing make absolutely no sense if you're actually done so.
---
As a aside, am I alone in really not liking NNR's recent few posts and especially his Serela vote? Is now really the time for a jokevote?
You're right, that's my fault, I could have worded that better. Yes, you commented on it, but I feel like it just cemented your Duskfall case (that's fine) and you're suspicious of Prims for being a little pushy. Like, you're bothered by him for this one thing but you're not like...looking into it? It's just surface level "oh this post is bad, so this person is scum" sort of thing.
Okay, second point is interesting. What in particular makes you think Duskfall cares about himself more than town as opposed to Duskfall cares more about himself (FHPOV confirmed townie) over an unknown?
You're just posting questions to Abu and like being fairly neutral overall. Optimistically I could call them aggressive questions, but nothing points to you actually being okay with lynching him. You're not actually saying anything here.
Abus claim doesn't make me want to unlynch, even if he is town vig which I doubt it's neg utility to let him live and shoot me who is town and also mostly townread o think?
Also general question: Were people like, ever suspicious of Duskfall? Because both of the popular lynches today wanting him FSR is interesting. If I was less lazy, I would look up their reasoning, when they became suspicious, and if these suspicions happened seperate from each other but I'm uh kinda already not interested in playing any more for the day so...
Dusk, this isn't EiMM, you don't lose the game if you get shot.. >_> THe only reason to be worried about being shot is if you think he's town anyways.
##Unvote
##Vote: Duskfall
Besides, you could have just.. asked him to shoot someone else? With words? Or leash him, we're really going with 'quick lynch the vig before he vigs someone'? I think the reasoning around this is lazy, people fakeclaim things that can't be proven more often then extra kills.
Oarf I'm sorry if you think I should be doing more, I legit just can't keep up with the 6 pages every time I look here. I'm more of a 3 posts a day person now. Also I've been bottom tier lynchable in my last two games so :Thonk:
Hey if you guys want something nice and safe to do, you can lynch me, a ^.^ V A N I L L A T O W N ^.^ so i can stop having to read this AND be stuck with the indignity of having no night actions
Niektory hasn't really done anything and is getting away with it. Don't understand why they voted NNR for not voting yet here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1003#msg1003); lots of people hadn't made serious votes at that time, @Niektory what made you decide to vote NNR?I just figured voting is better than not voting, even when not serious. Only he and Duskfall98 haven't voted at all by then. No particular reason to pick NNR out of these two.
Real talk, my thought process ATM is "if Prims/Conq/SB/Nuxl/Duskfall are all town, they can carry me and I don't have to do strawberries" so a lot of my motivation for bothering to come up with reads is hedging in case that isn't the case. Wait...hopefully no one else is stealing my strategy.Another taste of motk meta:Arthur/Prims is -really- good at looking like a glorious beacon of shining town glory when he's actually scum. He's one of the players (along with Kilga) that I'd rank as "if this person is alive in Lylo, just policy lynch them right now" because, while in general I think I have a pretty decent scumdar, I have absolutely no ability to tell when Prims is actually scum and usually just hard townread them every game. Man if I could like, ever roll cop I'd probably just hit them n1 regardless of gamestate tbh and get that nightmare out of the way, too many losses to prims
I might look into Prims and shoot him if his scum game is as good as Serela is saying.
@abu what does niek's vote on me make you think of my slot?You confused me with someone else didn't you.
niek is either not being coached or his scumteam is really inexperienced, i think. i would usually say the former read but i just played a game where i gave someone a pass for that but it turns out their scumteam was just bottom quarter. i think this is useful to consider if it flips red! but it's probably more scum often than not if the other 3(or 4 if people don't want to include me) townreads can be found on a higher confidence, just like the last game i played on smogonWhat do you mean by coaching, exactly? If you mean them talking to me directly as scum, I don't think there was an opportunity for that yet, if I understood the rules correctly. Or do you just mean me supporting them in the day thread, since I would(*) know who they are?
Have you ever spoke about mafia vig theory in a game before and if you have can you link itWhat theory?
No I haven't
Ok you are usually best to shoot lhf slots that are not going to be town cleared
lhf? curious
Low hanging fruit
@anyone do modkills end day on this site?Quoted from the rules:
- Related to the above, I reserve the right to make sure any modkills I deliver come with the most detrimental consequences to the dead player's faction.So I guess the answer is probably "Yes if the killed player is town".
Xinnidy has requested a replacement from the current game due to unforeseen reality circumstances. If you, yes you, the person reading this! is interested, or you know someone that would be interested, please let me know in private.Lynch him! Problem solved! (Probably a stupid idea)
Niek coaching is when a more experienced player tells their scumbuddy what to do/how to playYeah I figured as much but I'm curious if it's something done in the day thread.
raik
Shoot shadoweh imo if she's not gonna do anything, shoot like nnr or something i guess otherwise o dunno someone who is widely scumread
If Abu herovigs he is probably scum and we should lynch him tomorrow, if he doesn't we can deal with it again tomorrow regardless
Okay I chilled out a little.
If you don't want me to shoot Duskfall then give me suggestions because I don't really have reads atm and I don't feel like backreading right now.
Or
Just lynch me ignoring the fact that I claimed a provable PR.
Either option works.
And then saying 'Vig Raikaria' and then voting me is counterproductive, right? Who is Abu supposed to vig if that wagon actually rolls? You again?
I'm here to vote whenever.
I still think Abu should be lynched.
I'm not particularly interested in lynching either Dusk/Raikaria over him
Do you think raik is town rn?
Also nuxl I always have a wagon so I don't think voting me alone is necessarily scummy on its own it's the reasoning why
Nuxl just vote raik then
"I don't think ppl will follow" is not an excuse, raik already has 4 votes.
Nuxl just vote raik then
"I don't think ppl will follow" is not an excuse, raik already has 4 votes.
any reason for that? is it mostly because of the way raik is approaching his wagon (ill admit it skeeves me out too)
Also kind awake to believe Abu just townslipped page 24 a bitwell go ahead and share with the rest of the class, time is ticking
uh, that sentence but put the words in the right order.Uhh you asked what Duskfall lied about right? He lied about my meta being a tryhard, but that's irrelevant now since he just admitted he doesn't know my meta
abu did you have a response to any of the stuff i asked you
Also abu claim aside my biggest issue with your posts is that they're just oozing self-pres* and the only scumread you have is duskfall (and you never answered my question about what he was lying about)
*yes i know he supposedly ragequit earlier but he's back and i just get the sense he only really cares about surviving off his claim
When did I say vig raikaria
Also when did I try force anyone into voting where they didn't want to?
You replied to a post which was asking who to vig with raik.
What am I supposed to inferr?
I kinda think Shadoweh's wacky post near the last votals are town tbh. She's so consistently against popular opinion that I don't think she's trying to blend in while not efforting enough to try to control discussion.i don't think shadoweh is trying to blend in, she's trying to coast and not really trying to convince anyone to go with her. her first few posts were about wanting me to carry her so i kinda expected her to engage with me more to try and solve things but she hasnt done that
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.
I will be here to vote Abu if necessary but if we can make Rai work I'd rather do it.
I've decided I don't want to lynch Abu anymore
Also kind awake to believe Abu just townslipped page 24 a bit
raikaria have you been reading my posts? i asked you a few things but you never got back to them.
actually one last thing
i'm fairly i've posted my explanation of the shadoweh votes multiple times and directed it to you. i dunno why you're just ignoring me but it's extremely frustating and i dunno if you;re doing i on purpose or what
alright ciao
raik, what do you think of my explanation re: the shadoweh votes?
And you continue to fail to elaborate
There is no such thing as a 'townslip'. Everyone wants to look town, including the scum.
Did I miss something? I might have missed something. Entirely possible I missed something while making cases and focusing on active wagons.
I haven't been directing that towards you. It was more towards people like Zwej.
Also; speaking of Zwej; the sudden change in activity levels of him and Nuxl is slightly concerning. You'd think people would be more active on the weekends. But instead there's a lot of non-content at the start and then when the game is actually going there isn't much.
Also this isn't a question. I see no questionmarks or such. I don't see much else you've said directed at me either. I mean #423 and #424 are directed towards me but again neither of those are questions, and I replied to those posts.
Oh wait I found this missed question.
So apparently Shadoweh jumped on a weak vote; didn't really push it. h; Shadoweh's been kinda wishy-washy but Shadoweh has also not really been here.
It's more of a reason than anyone else has given. It's not a great reason but the vote was early and it's been moved on from.
if someone can sell me on a raik vote i will vote to maj day
but as of now i still dont think he should be the vote for eeasons i touched on in an earlier post
"3 new replies have been posted"
yeah just like i said
Nuxl your posting is worrying me rn by the way I should probably inform you
i don't think shadoweh is trying to blend in, she's trying to coast and not really trying to convince anyone to go with her. her first few posts were about wanting me to carry her so i kinda expected her to engage with me more to try and solve things but she hasnt done that
serela just taking abu's vig claim at face value without any critical thought does look kinda bad now that you pointed it out but ehhh i dont think he'd be a good vig target
Also to add to my dislike of Dusk's 'townslip' comment; he previously said he was happy lynching a townVig Abu anyway if Abu was going to shoot him.
Currently Abu hasn't said his mind's changed, and thus this is an inconsistency.
if someone can sell me on a raik vote i will vote to maj day
but as of now i still dont think he should be the vote for eeasons i touched on in an earlier post
Rai looks like he's still trying to force the Dusk scumread really hard.
Repost?
i promised i would reread stuff. i delivered.
or not. isod raikaria instead
i like his posts, honestly. i just cant think of a reason why raikaria as scum would want to target dusk of all people. he was the first person on the wagon, and i dont see an agenda behind that. additionally, his reasons for sring dusk are pretty solid, and its not like he drops the push suddenly; his iso just ends atIt's not that standalone point. It's that lack of explanation in tandem with all the other lacking explanations, as well as the declaration to not bother with reading Dormio.so at this point i want people to step off of raikaria. hes a very decent townread. he shouldnt be the lynch today, so please @ sb/refa move your votes
Also I have explained why I changed on O4rfish? The misunderstanding has been cleared up. I had stated that it was that one post which I thought was awful at the time was my reason for my scumread, which has been abandoned.
The 'thing I don't like' is your general lack of explanations. Those are examples. I didn't like it before but at the time thought O4rfish was worse. You're really splitting hairs.
i dont have many opinions on the abu vig thing, though i would like him to explain why he agreed with me on nnrs sudden vote being scummy
which i assume is what he will be working on when he does his read-through
so for now i wont vote him
The rally against raikaria still feels scum led and forced
One part of me says scum should be concentrating on throwing abu under the bus but another part of me says yhe scum are on raikaria because the abu lynch is inevitable
Doesn't this mindset only work in plurality though? It's the most advantageous if nothing gets reached
I'm going to remain on Duskfall in the hope people agree with me until just before deadline, or unless something happens which makes me re-evaluate [either something really bad or Duskfall manages to change my opinion]. Obviously I'm not gonna consolidate on myself
Since I'm here until deadline, if needed I'll hammer Abu, as I've said a few times; he's not a townread. Also NotMeOverMe and I'd rather we do lynch someone, at least for information.
Are you sure about that?
In context of the argument at hand, duh
And by that context, just to make sure, you mean the context of it's advantageous for scum if nothing gets reached.
Yes
- Whenever town or scum forgoes their faction kill (the lynch, in town's case), the other faction gains a bonus faction kill to be used during the next phase only. This bonus kill, if not used, will not be given back to the first faction in the sequence.
Thought for a moment you were advocating for No Lynch being advantageous. If you were I'd have switched to voting for you. Which is why I queried it. Don't want another misinterpretation issue like when I pushed O4rfish.
To remind people:
We do need to settle on someone. This adds to me not being fond of Duskfall's vote switch [For not very explained reasons] and Zerj's dry unvote.
##Unvote: NekoNekoRex
##Vote: AbuHumaid
I'm not convinced but time is running out. I might still switch.
Worst case scenario for scum is that abu flips red and raikaria is pseudo confirmed town anyway
Given the town is the majority and the general consensus is to lynch abu, it would be a waste of time for scum to deter the wagon regardless of his alignment. The rally to lynch raikaria can be carried to d2 however depending on the flip.
still waiting on people to convince me. ill vote at 1h to dl
Worst case scenario for scum is that abu flips red and raikaria is pseudo confirmed town anyway
Why did you vote here? What reason would you have to switch?
L-1
How would raik be conf town?
This is L-2 btw so yeah!!
@Conq is your expectation on shadoweh "should be" working more to solve with you based on prior experiences with her
Who do you think I scum
It's my strongest scumread. Of course I want to convince people to go for it.
I'm aware I'm the secondary wagon. If I wanted the easy way out I'd just jump on Abu and push him, but I don't have a hard scumread on him.
And it's not like I've not commented on other events; like NNR's jokevote; the drop in activity of Zerj and Nuxl now there's actually real content, pushing a bit on Prims and probeing Abu as well.
Yeah Abu feels bad now as a lynch
What are your thoughts on Arthur jumping on his nuts for a crumb
Wait since when has Dan wanted to lynch me
@Conq is your expectation on shadoweh "should be" working more to solve with you based on prior experiences with herYes.
If abu flips vig not much changes, scum can continue to attack raikaria, and the people I think are scum on abus wagon will still feel scummy
Dan, why do you want to lynch Duskfall again? I've been leaning town on him so seeing him as your preferred is kinda confusing to me.
I dunno anything about him I can see him thinking it was a bad claim and something scum would do, I'm not sure if asking for crumbs is like inheritly scummy or just a weird thing to expect
Maybe this question is a site difference on PR expectations, since it's how town!abu would play a PR could be diff than always needing 2 crumb. Was kinda weird 2 me
I didn't disappear, I'm reading the threadWell, it looks like you're probably going to get lynched barring a massive vote swing, do you have anything to say that can swing it?
I didn't disappear, I'm reading the thread
Part of me is like nnr is just scum tming a lot and we are ignoring it
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this point
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this pointwhat about the lynch feels icky, is it just the lack of resistance?
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
What happened to your read on me and zwer? Huhneutral on you. I have better reads to persue
Well, it looks like you're probably going to get lynched barring a massive vote swing, do you have anything to say that can swing it?If I get lynched and flip town vig = raikaria will automatically get lynched next Day under the argument that he's my counterwagon.
what about the lynch feels icky, is it just the lack of resistance?
neutral on you. I have better reads to persue
Abu is just such an easy to resistance lynch he's not even trying hard to defend himself I'm like tinfoiling jester at this pointI just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?
Think Abu is being lynched regardless but this still feels icky when you look outside of Abu on his own
I just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?
Yeah but uh, what changed? Your initial vote on me was because of me apparently dodging questions(which I still didn't do, can you point that out) and hiding info/using meta. I don't actually think I changed too much of the latter hahahayour current position doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i dont see a reason to keep grasping onto an aged read for the sake of it when I have stronger scum reads to consider
I just don't know what to say anymore, I already claimed my role, what am I supposed to do?can you give reads or something? when i asked if you had anything to say i meant not mechanical stuff because im not interesting in lynching optimally or not, i want to lynch you if you're scum and someone else if you're not. i've seen scum do the "claim nice role and expect to survive the day while clamming up about reads" routine before so if you're actually town throw us a bone and give us something to work with.
"- There may or may not be a third party. If a third party exists, its win condition can be trusted to require survival."
I am here and ready to consolidate NOW rather than ten minutes before dusk.
So I disagree with everything NNR says. Nice.I agree with you about Serela, so he's probably scum.
Abu, what do you think about your wagon? Reads on specific players would be good.
your current position doesn't strike me as particularly scummy and i dont see a reason to keep grasping onto an aged read for the sake of it when I have stronger scum reads to consider
Guys please no ;~;
Hi I can't guarantee I'll be here in the next hour so I'm here now.
I can hammer or if someone unvotes in the next 5 min I can replace the vote if you reallllllly need that time
but otherwise I'm going to hammer in 5
Still think Dusk is the best lynch, but at this point it's clear that's not gonna happen. The only thing that makes me hesitate a little is him flipping from Abu onto my wagon; which is smaller. But at the same time; his vote on me feels like hard OMGUS.
Fully expecting if there's a cop for them to investigate me; seeing as I'm the counterwagon.
I dunno I'll just sit around during the night with my collection of pods. It requires quite a bit of effort to work with those, after all. I don't have any special tools. Maybe I'll wake up D2 and have some flash of an idea.
Or more likely get back from work and see like 10 pages; wagons on me and then frantically have to try and scumhunt through those pages while trying not to provoke what's probably a scum-led wagon on me.
i think raikaria just tmid here
subconsciously put out the idea of a vig because he knows abu is the town vig, and didnt mention it in his post.
this is weird at best and incriminating at worst
reread his op and youll see what i mean
wait.http://imgur.com/gallery/GFRAkf8
this is fire trucking sus
##vote raikaria
Sorry I'm lost
What's the vcAbu L-1 Raik L-3
Anyway, I'm not big on Serela's post where they voted them? I do believe they were cut off by the vig claim but I think they would've had at least some kind of reaction to it beyond "this is notable".
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.Are you even, like... reading... my posts????
2: Meta is generally scum low-effort and don't contribute much. Town chase each other in tails trying to find scummy things and make cases so they look like they are making ~effort~ to look like town. However, by virtue of posting more content, there is more for the other townies to use to try and make some sort of case. This leads to town lynching town while scum just lurks; wagons, or pushes wagons.
wait.
this is fire trucking sus
##vote raikaria
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
I hate both of these wagons ftr. Also I did read the entire thread yesterday and it didnit help (i have not read the last like 5 pages, i just read the votecount b/c deadline etc)
Something 4 you smogoners btw, Mafia Vigilantes don't really happen here.. so even a 'hero vig' is probably a town shot. yeah.
i cant be the only one seeing this come on
Raik still has to vote Abu btw
Raikaria, if someone goes from a larger wagon to a smaller wagon, why would that make them less likely to be scum in this game?
Guys, I think any information we can gain from discussion this hour would be really outweighed by the certainty of having lynched someone.
A lynch lets us analyze all the discussion and votes leading up to the flip. Plus, it's somewhat likely to hit scum.
An extra mafia kill has none of that.
And I'm pretty sure mafia would target someone more high-value to town than the town version of Abu.
Also I'll just remind people of this:
Totally would not surprise me if Abu is town; and I'm town.
Also I guess since it might be a while until I can post again:
Aside from Dusk; I'm scumreading:
Serela [Low-effort; especially by his standards; his vote on me seems really lazy; and this fits general MotK scum play]. This is my 2nd scum read.
Slight scumread on Zwej mostly because a lot of his content seems fluffy and it dropped off when actual discussion started quite noticeably. Also I've not really been *impressed* by his content. But this is slight and one of the first things I want to do D2 is re-read him.
Shadoweh is a slight scumread because I'm not impressed by what she has posted. But Lurkerweh also tends to be town. It's when Shadoweh is trying to control the game she's usually scum. This is making her only a slight scumread than a full one.
Abu is very slight of a scumread due to things I've pressed in prior posts and don't really want to re-quote.
Everyone else ranges from Null~Town. But I'm not gonna paint targets on people.
Care to elaborate on what's suspect?
So what makes my wagon a better one to jump on?
THEN EXPLAIN WHAT'S 'SUS' INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING. Seriously. How many times do I need to encourage people to actually explain their cases!
I'm holding out hope for a last-second switch to you. I'd rather lynch a hard scumread than a minor one. Even with Abu at L-1 I haven't jumped to hammer.
Also can everyone stop cutting me.
Serela continuing to votepark on Abu while not having an opinion on the vig claim is bad. Like, really bad, he's not trying to solve the lynch at all.I also want to complain more about this quote from SB because like, I've been having continued opinions about Abu. I'm not 'voteparking'. I've been following up. Like, this seems like a pretty big disconnect from reality here. What does "solve the lynch" even MEAN. Abu is scummy as F and I want to lynch him, he's continued being scummy, I've elaborated on the continual scummy behavior, what's the prob here dood
We are going to lynch someone we are deciding who
i have no idea everybody came back up so quickly to make either lynch possible
kinda frozen but abu is probably the one more likelier to happen
Raikaria, if someone goes from a larger wagon to a smaller wagon, why would that make them less likely to be scum in this game?
Guys, I think any information we can gain from discussion this hour would be really outweighed by the certainty of having lynched someone.
A lynch lets us analyze all the discussion and votes leading up to the flip. Plus, it's somewhat likely to hit scum.
An extra mafia kill has none of that.
And I'm pretty sure mafia would target someone more high-value to town than the town version of Abu.
I like how rai just accused me being of scummy for my first non-rvs vote seeming 'lazy', which has since been drowned out by a ton of other things
i literally did explain
I've no idea what I'm doing
On one hand Abu has like way less partner equity I think?
On the other hand raik is doing way more and trying to push things which is better than Abu
Trilogy point is why are so many of the players standing off and not really getting involved I feel like people are pushing these two but not many believe in these two wagons which also scares me
... Actually you know what?
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
... Actually you know what?
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
AND THEN YOU POST SOMETHING TOWNIE WHY
I'VE BEEN POSTING TOWNIE ALL DAY
... Actually you know what?I respect that, boss
I'm a Vanillia Townie. It's better I die than a Vig.
I think like usual in MotK Mafia it's between 2 townies getting lynched here.
Abu shoot Duskfall or Serela for me.
##Unvote
## Vote: Raikaria
Raik all you've done is tunneled me
Mafia sucks
Still think Dusk is the best lynch, but at this point it's clear that's not gonna happen. The only thing that makes me hesitate a little is him flipping from Abu onto my wagon; which is smaller. But at the same time; his vote on me feels like hard OMGUS.
Fully expecting if there's a cop for them to investigate me; seeing as I'm the counterwagon.
I dunno I'll just sit around during the night with my collection of pods. It requires quite a bit of effort to work with those, after all. I don't have any special tools. Maybe I'll wake up D2 and have some flash of an idea.
Or more likely get back from work and see like 10 pages; wagons on me and then frantically have to try and scumhunt through those pages while trying not to provoke what's probably a scum-led wagon on me.
that's not a slip zwerd, pleaseOkay, you don't know for sure if my claim is real or not, but I could prove it tonight, why do I feel like you're just afraid you'll catch the bullet and don't actually believe I'm scum?
we're not lynching active player raikaria over scummy as hell abu if I have any say over this
Raikaria voting your own slot when you have a big wagon that's likely to be lynched who isn't you is basically never a good idea. You're assuming Abu is totally telling the truth when he could EASILY BE LYING, meanwhile, from your perspective, you are -modconfirmed town- (or scum who would at least be attempting to survive)
actually i guess i should still post the logic. scumslip could overrule towniness here if raik knows abu wagon is inevitable and just wants cred for it
cough
hajimeyo
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
There's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?
actually i guess i should still post the logic. scumslip could overrule towniness here if raik knows abu wagon is inevitable and just wants cred for it
cough
hajimeyo
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
There's a good chance he's actually just tming Abu town here I think?
That's not a slip
Side note:
Raik just went from saying that he doesn't townread Abu to self voting himself to save Abu because he's such a strong townread
that's not a slip zwerd, please
we're not lynching active player raikaria over scummy as hell abu if I have any say over this
Raikaria voting your own slot when you have a big wagon that's likely to be lynched who isn't you is basically never a good idea. You're assuming Abu is totally telling the truth when he could EASILY BE LYING, meanwhile, from your perspective, you are -modconfirmed town- (or scum who would at least be attempting to survive)
this post. this is why i think raikaria is scum and just tmid
subconsciously, he leaves out the possibility of being shot by a vigilante as the counterwagon. this is scummy because it implies raikaria already knows what abu will flip and is certain he is the only vigilante in the setup
additionally, despite the vote on himself, i think hes also sure that abu is being lynched unless theres a last second cfd, which, if/since he is scum, he can mitigate anyway with the votes on abu and secure cred for himself d2
why not???
i'll go back at :50 otherwise
I've been on raik ages
Because not listing every single role who could target you isn't a slip in a closed setup where town wouldn't know the roles, town wouldn't even know if there is a vig in the gamei am staring long and hard at this and i still dont understand why its not a slip and how you cant follow this logic
"why are people here at deadline, that's so weird and has never happened before in the history of survivor"
We could always no-lynch because your choices are terrible :sunnya:
"why are people here at deadline, that's so weird and has never happened before in the history of survivor"
We could always no-lynch because your choices are terrible :sunnya:
i am staring long and hard at this and i still dont understand why its not a slip and how you cant follow this logic
Vote Count 1.16
AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (7): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, sb
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (6): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, AbuHumaid, zwerdjib, Shadoweh, Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb, Niektory, Xinnidy
Shadoweh (Yuuka Kazami) (1): Conqueror, Dormio Ergo Sum, ActionDan, zwerdjib, Conqueror, sb, Refa, O4rfish
Serela (Koishi Komeiji) (1): Serela, Prims, NekoNekoRex
Duskfall98 (Shinki) (0): Nuxl, Raikaria, AbuHumaid, Shadoweh
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): zwerdjib, Niektory, O4rfish, zwerdjib
Prims (Narumi Yatadera) (0): Raikaria, Shadoweh
O4rfish (Rumia) (0): Raikaria, Dormio Ergo Sum
Conqueror (Tenshi Hinanawi) (0): Shadoweh
sb (Sanae Kochiya) (0): Xinnidy
Xinnidy (Yumemi Okazaki) (0):
zwerdjib (Yuyuko Saigyouji) (0): AbuHumaid, Dormio Ergo Sum, O4rfish, Refa, NekoNekoRex
Refa (Reimu Hakurei) (0): zwerdjib
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0):
Nuxl (Youki Konpaku) (0): Prims, O4rfish, AbuHumaid, NekoNekoRex
Niektory (Yukari Yakumo) (0):
Not voting (1): Nuxl
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch someone. You have about 25 minutes remaining (https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200308T18&p0=851&font=cursive&csz=1) to cast your votes.
Its absolutely not a slip, because there is a feasible way town would post that, because he was just saying he expected to be copped, which is something town can say
You can't skip by not saying something, you skip by saying something you don't know
Slip by omission does not exist
> slip by omission does not exist
and who decided this?
there is a feasible way town raik posted it, but does it not align with the rest of what ive said as a scum gambit?
##Unvote
##Vote: Abu
I literally can't post without being cut for 2 minutes, doing this before deadline cuts me.
I think you're both town so lynching either of you is giving scum a shot anyways, maybe they'll shoot Abu because he'd be confirmed :Cate:
I am joking about no-lynching but that's the level of disapproval I have for these lynches.
You should just vote Abu, I don't think a third lynch is happening rai.
Okay, you don't know for sure if my claim is real or not, but I could prove it tonight, why do I feel like you're just afraid you'll catch the bullet and don't actually believe I'm scum?because even if you aren't scum you can just be a third party serial killer easily.
AbuHumaid is at L-1! 10 minutes left!
Ok I'm gonna hammer I think it's Abu anyways gl friends
Night Rules
- No speaking at night unless you are given explicit permission.
Town:
- Me, Sir Arthur Ingnatius Conan Touhou.
Leaning town:
- zwerdjib
- NNR (he is town mad because he is struggling to read the game)
- Duskfall (don't know his scum game but overall this seems good to me)
- Conq
Neutral:
- Refa
- Dormio
- Nuxl
- Dan
- SB
- Xinnidy
Neutral but kind of bad looking:
- Shadoweh (I think she could be town but the longer she voteparks on me the harder it is to not want to lynch her on a personal level lol)
- Serela (a little scummy, needs to say more things. think he'll become obvious soon enough if scum. Keep talking Serela.)
- Raikaria (looks like he picked dusk as a target then explained later which is odd)
Scummy:
- O4rfish (people have been TRing this guy and he could be town but I've thought his priorities were fuzzy and his cases basically are how I would expect him to apply his hyper-serious hall monitor approach to the game as scum who needs to make up cases. O4rfish please explain why you want to lynch Shadoweh over anyone else right now, including the other people you've suspected.)
- Niektory (even if overwhelmed, doesn't read like he's feeling any pressure to contribute to a town wincon)
- Abu (low posting semi-apathetic type scum guy)
There are too many mafia players.
Probably won't be around at deadline.
I want to partially retract that oarfishs vote timing wasnt as terrible as it could have been given the flip, but the vote is down and i stand by it.
I should finish work though
Yeah, he displayed some aggression towards you and also Nuxl that eventually fizzled out. Is this circumstantial or something he would do more as scum? Have any other reads worth knowing about?i do but im at work and cant reread yet.
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
Tentatively zman until he gets original, current opinions
Yeah, he displayed some aggression towards you and also Nuxl that eventually fizzled out. Is this circumstantial or something he would do more as scum? Have any other reads worth knowing about?my initial read on oarfish was the vote timing was a scum bussing scum but even with the town flip his vote feels very oppurtunistic and he rode out the day with it. It was a very safe and easy vote, the content both before and after doesnt feel town play
Obviously I'm not gonna consolidate on myself
My scumreads besides abu are on sb, oarfish, shadowed, leaning on dusk
also, do you mind rereading shadowehs posts and saying what you think after @fab? im not necessarily sure on her. like the low posting is offputting but the tones i get are regrettably townish like "we should do this because it makes the most sense for the town, not because it is something that i personally think is best" or smth like that (except 912 but thats obviously a half joke post). unsure how to put it.
I like these. I especially enjoy the spice with bolded. I know you're focused on ORfish but just off the brain tell me about your thoughts on SBalmost pure gut. I have an intense dislike of his crusade against raikaria
Why does her lowposting offput you the most compared to others? There were some things I liked about Shadoweh which I noted. I don't feel like rereading and am slightly wondering why you brought that work onto me.
hard to get a read onto her with 2 contradictory behaviors imho. at least for me. but for the most part your agreeable list (which... im assuming is your "probably townie" list) is something i can jive with if we need to poe people out. so i was wondering if you could get a decent read on shadoweh and i can see how much i agree with it because i honestly cant read her as much as i wish i could
and comparably speaking, like i said, her low posting is contradictory to her tone, so thats why it kind of sticks out to me
I'd like a post from Zeep summarising where they stand on the game because despite having probably the most posts I have trouble remembering his opinions? Or maybe that's because of it, but he's felt like kind of a doormat and I don't feel like he has any strong uh, feelings about anything.
My read on her is tied to her votes right now. She had a good vote from what I remembered.
Zwerb pls Rai didn't 'slip' Abu literally said he was shooting Duskfall in the face, he had no reason to be worried about it.
Not gonna lie I'd have voted sb first if i werent at work. Both are strong scumreads, oarfish is just easier to explain.
Sbs vote on me doesnt make a difference. I dont have to read more than half because its obviously fabricated.
I am confused why everyone is suddenly so down on Duskfall (not so much Shadoweh, moreso the others).
I am trying to ISO zeep (with ctrl+f because I'll admit I'm being lazy here) and I really don't know what he thought the slip was?
Do you even read or are you just making it up as you go along
##Unvote Vote:sb
I'm just going to point again that we lynched the Town Vig in order to save Duskfall for some reason.This never happened because duskfall was never getting 9 votes; raik was the counterwagon. Even after raik did the whole self-vote shebang (which probably makes him town, motk has historically thrown self-voters to the wolves and seeing as abu actually flipped town vig there's no reason for scum!raik to pull that gambit off), you're also assuming people had reason to believe abu was the town vig. I can understand if you thought raik was town but why did you think abu was town? Did you just take his claim at face value when we've had mafia fakeclaim vig in the past? I'm super curious because I genuinely don't see how you could read abu's posts and think "yeah i don't like this wagon on him, he seems town". We pressured him a little and he just caved in and ragequit.
My read on her is tied to her votes right now. She had a good vote from what I remembered.Tell me what about her vote was good. Also, where does she fit on your tier list? I noticed she was missing.
I've withheld thoughts about Conq in particular and I'll probably continue to do so.Sorry but I stopped letting people votepark me in 2010. Let's see what you have.
Tell me what about her vote was good. Also, where does she fit on your tier list? I noticed she was missing.
Sorry but I stopped letting people votepark me in 2010. Let's see what you have.
I noticed some stuff in your longpost, I'll get to it in a bit.
What I would summarize your behavior for me is that you're waiting for something to happen. I do the same thing too, it's actually a bit out of my element to make things like the Readonomicon but I was excited to play again so I let my natural instincts take over. I don't think you're someone who obsesses over your presentation, I would actually give that title to Nuxl. I do think however you care how people sort your thoughts. You offered a lot of scenarios but the thing that kept me anxious was again: why did you hesitate? Every post I read from you seemed like you had some bombshell ready but you kept it to yourself. It's ironic how we're now and you've dropped it but I'm wondering what took so long? I didn't like your EoD even if I didn't talk about it either, you were certain Abu was gonna flip scum based on what exactly? And why Abu? I again just didn't see conviction, I was waiting to be dazzled.Okay, thanks for posting this, tbh I didn't expect you to have something ready so I'm a bit surprised. I'll respond in a bit when I get to the rest of your post but tl;dr is that I wasn't certain Abu was going to flip scum. How I usually play D1 is that I feel around and try to push wagons to see what happens when I move to them. You said I hesitated but I checked back and you were asking about why I didn't move to Serela - simply put I still wanted to make Shadoweh show up and post because it's not like I stopped scumreading her (I moved off when it became clear that she was just ignoring everything so unless we fully brought her to a lynch nothing would happen and I just got bored with having my vote on her). I got a little off track here. Back to you asking about Abu. A weakness of my D1 games is that I usually end up trying to sort relatively low content posters since I'm really bad at sorting more wordy people until later in the game. I prodded at Abu and I got almost no townvibes from him and a few scumvibes. You're right in that I didn't have conviction but what about it? That's pretty much what you're going to get out of me early and I stand by it.
Duskfall literally voted him to stay alive when a confirmed town would be worth his life.This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?
Why don't you buy into it? I'm not following you here.This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.
I kinda think Oarfish is town regardless though. I've never felt like they were bullstrawberriesting responses to me, it just feels like they're very misguided and tunnel too much on playstyle reasons. I'm pretty sure that they believe the cases that they're making which makes me think that they're town, but stillOarfish, I can vouch for town!Nuxl posting a similar volume of post to this (I've hosted a game with them in it) so please don't take the fact that he posts a lot as scummy because it's literally a site thing.
Zeep's response to NNR (or the bit he expanded on with Conq) feels kinda nitpicky, wrt "why are there no quotes" and stuff like that. I think examining the votepost without the followup clarification where NNR admitted they were unclear is kinda wack too? I know you said the "followup didn't justify it" (rough quote) but why?
Rai's Oarfish vote felt really easy? Like, it feels like a such a given to me that it wasn't going to be today in realtime, so if that's the only reason you put the vote down then I'm not really happy with it. I guess the progression towards unvoting is believable enough but also kinda null. Cut: not big on the Duskfall vote because I think it frames a couple of posts unnecessarily badly ("due to an assumption on mentality" is weird because uh, Mafia is all about making assumptions and exploring them from there). Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?
I don't think Abu has answered my old question? Abu, why was NNR's case bad enough to make you unvote Nuxl but not vote NNR? Did you just forget or something? It feels awkward to me.
##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria
I still want Shadoweh to clarify what she meant because I'm very ??? but I think I understand her vote progression a bit better at least.
I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?
So to explain my gut on sb, I think the best place to start is here.This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.
As I pointed out before, I think making a vote based on "His scumhunting case is too easy" is a cheap shot and a poor justification and he was riding on raikaria's ass for the remainder of the day, which mostly felt scummy to me.
I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.
Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?
Also smh are you just ignoring I have a result on you?Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.
I never said Abu was clearly faking so you're proving you never read my posts at all. Even with that:
This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?
Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.
If mafia shot duskfall with the nightkill there would have been one kill instead of two, Conq plz. It seemed pretty obvi to me that the mafia weren't going to kill Duskfall on their own. I think if Duskfall were town he would have tried to get Abu not to shoot him instead of driving the wagon and making ideas of leashing him long after Abu's lynch was super happening.Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.
My head is at: everyone is scum.
People who defend me are scum.
People who attack me are scum.
People who lurk are scum.
Conq might not be scum, since he's doing what he loves. But if Shadoweh is really low-energy, she might be letting him bus her.
I still don't know why you and Duskfall think Prims was thought to be PR.
[insert sb quote here]And then this is repeated when Refa jumps on the Raikaria wago-wait what
I had the same reaction to Shadoweh TBH and while I'm not sure how scummy that actually is, kinda wanna sheep it for now until I get a better vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
I don't have a result, the rest of you lazy bastards can go back to your regularly scheduled thread.*SCCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMIINGGGG*
I CLAIMED VANILLA YESTERDAY WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ME TO DO, SAY I CHANGED MY MIND AND WAS A VOYEUR THAT WENT TO PRIMS'S HOUSE FOR COOKIES OR SOMETHING?The last time I claimed a result on you when you were mafia you folded instantly, tbh I wanted to see if it would happen again to make my life easy.
You can say that but then we would have just lynched Abu, because when someone openclaims a shot you don't just say 'oh maybe mafia had brain damage and shot the same person you said you were killing in thread'You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.
You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?SB had a scumread and case on NNR based off something he completely misread and basically fell on his face, it was hilarious but not actually indicative of alignment AFAIK
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?
zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.
Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.
I feel like I'm surrounded by mostly townies. This is making me unsure about Dormio.
Can you link to the post you're talking about? I'll remember to take a look.
wait we're on page 35, is this okay?
PR is power role - you have the ability to do something, generally at night. As opposed to say masons/neighbors, innocent child, etc.
Is raik just mechanically a better lynch than Abu here I think they both will get lynched regardless bad it doesn't hurt to let Abu prove himself, unless he shoots me and is scum vig which would admittedly be big sad
Are you unsure about him because you feel like one of the agreeable people has to be scum or was there something else? For me, I think I'm like "I've historically disagreed with Dormio's cases but his thought process is fine" so it's hard to have a TR on that. Also for me, it's like...I don't think it's likely that the entire Abu wagon was town and the people I feel shakiest about on it are Dormio, Serela, and like...Niekstory as a distant third.
WRT SB, I feel like he's less likely to slip up as scum? I read it as him genuinely fire trucking up and having to reevaluate his reads. What about it did you find damning?
I hate this stupid post restriction that I put on myself and how much time it wastes because I manually format everything like an idiot.Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3
Yeah, the Abu wagon needs to be looked at again. I wasn't focusing on it yet. When I said there has to be one it's just me organizing my thoughts and giving olive branches to discussion. I get a tingling sensation when I start townreading most of the page so I referred back to the lack of Dormio's presence to come to some sense of it. When it comes to SB, what seems damning to me is that he backed himself into a corner, and that his jump only ORfish doesn't make sense. I said it to him and I can say it to you-- It's not like his work was invalid due to one hiccup. He just decided it was pointless and sheepishly voted ORfish which did not seem like an organic place of thinking. Even through embarrassment I don't know if he'd just trash his thought so suddenly as town.
Refa, you said "Feel like he was fearkilled as an unlikely doc candidate"
and Duskfall said "Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine"
but I still believe they killed him because he's a good player who had a scum read on me, and I'm today's lynch target. They wouldn't want to kill the town version of sb and then try to convince people that town sb's townread on me was garbage.
Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3
(also, going to bed. refa uh... didn't actually... give me anything I can respond to there, so uh)
Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine
I think Rai's end of day stuff was town, I don't think he literally self-votes and lays down his life as scum there. Maybe he thought it wouldn't go through but I really can't see scum wanting to risk it when they had the big juicy prize of lynching the vig in front of them instead.
And I want to address my case earlier on Nuxl.
When you say something like "this player acts towny as scum and scummy as town" what you are really saying is "I want an excuse to protect or lynch this person whenever I see fit, because anything they do will confirm rather than refute my hypothesis"
If they act real scummy to your benefit? "They're town even more so!"
If they act real scummy to your detriment? You protest mildly while the rest of town lynches them.
If they act real towny to your benefit? "They're getting better at the game"
If they act real towny to your detriment? "Aha, they must be getting coached"
summarizing*
subject to change of course:
me
nuxl (sympathize with him. it should be obvious by now that i dont think hes scum atp unless hes tryharding really hard for this game)
refa (but at the same time, hes not necessarily giving me a lot that i can remember off the top of my head. most notable thing i remember is the questioning session a while back. ill need to reread him to form a more conclusive read)
dormio ish (has dropped off noticeably. could stand to be dropped into neutral (not null duh but))
everyone else not mentioned
nnr (in between null and scumlean)
raikaria (cant get over the slip. and im not going to argue slip semantics anymore, the omission was plain as day)
duskfall (his play was like an exponential graph. but its going down instead of up. feel like hes giving fewer and fewer reasons to tr him)
somewhat n/a but i get the feeling ill have someone here today
lol scumlocks reserved for confscum atp
as a note, i include scumlock and townlock sections in my reads list, so always count those slots (though theyre generally n/a)
his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon. caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana
orly
Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward. 2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?
So, the case doesn't make sense because after I made the case in public you didn't follow through?
I think you looked less scummy later than you did earlier. But I am trying to explain why you looked scummy earlier.
Now? I'm suspicious of everybody now. Abu was town, Prims died, Prims was town, and my reads all got thrown in the garbage.
Refa, I'm always a lynch target and today's my day.
Abu gets mod-confirmed town, and I'm like "Well that was less than likely, but at least I have 24 hours to figure out who the scum are. Duskfall maybe, Conq maybe, AHA it must be Prims"
So yes, I feel good about nobody now.
And I'm a very jokey person, but usually serious when playing Mafia. That statement is serious, as you can tell from context.
Also I can't speak for the people who are saving your slot for later but for me at least it's like every time you make dedicated posts, I'm like "cool Nuxl is town again" and then every time you stop, I'm like "...but what if?". At least for me, you'd be easier to read with some strong scumreads; I can kind of see why other people feel that way about you. Also fair enough on the Duskfall read, just let me know when you're more sure really.
ive honestly been having trouble making dedicated scumreads recently. my townreads are high confidence and that matters the most to me
god i want to engage with you on tommy to help my own read but don't want to expose a tell for when i play with him again uuuugh. as a starting point, do you remember how you read him in ocnoc2?
Start at #974 to about #982. There's also his case a bit back, but he discarded every momentum he had on NNR and shifted over to his second option ORfish kinda badly.Okay, I looked at this. I guess I can't fault SB for not realizing NNR's vote on Serela was a jokevote because I remember a few other people commenting on the Serela vote at the time (although i thought it was pretty clear given the reason he stated for his vote, illiteracy truly has infected motk). The switch to oarfish is definitely awkward yeah. I dunno if that in itself makes him more likely to be scum though since it would have been easy for mafia!him to stay on NNR and he wouldn't look like a fool for jumping to oarfish.
How do you think Serela compares to his scum meta now? You mentioned he had difficulty faking reads on town (honestly kind of seeing him having trouble coming up with scumreads) but is there anything else? Actually if you have anything on NNR, that would help too because that's another read I'm struggling with.tbh Serela's #1020 definitely gives me scum!serela who tried to make a case on someone but just couldn't vibes. so yeah i've been seeing that on his d2 as well. i dont have any real quantifiable way to describe the rest of his meta, i just remember it was a "feeling" i got, and it still only worked about half the time, and i'm rusty enough that im not relying on it anyway.
define Statement43
{
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}
query (Dormio Ergo Sum)
{
cout <<loop (Statement43)
}
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it was raikarias slip not dusks
im just voting dusk for getting progressively worse throughout yesterday and for weirdly defending the dude tunneling him
It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.
Oh wait. Shadoweh isn't softconfirmed scum anymore. I actually have to vote her again.
##Vote Shadoweh
Am I over examining or is this a slip
wait we're on page 35, is this okay?
Where's the slip? Assuming Rai is town? I know you said you hadn't been reading as much but I think the only person to even question it after the EoD was Nuxl.
wait what do you "sympathize" with me about
dont understand your dormio and tommy reads
Who asked if scum has daytalk btw you are officially clear
Conq what part of 1020 made you lean scum!Serela? I actually started townreading them from the post because it looks like a genuine thought process and I don't know if Serela is brave enough to just post an abandoned case like that as scum. I don't really follow where you vote came from here?it looks like a genuine thought process yes, and that's what makes me think he's scum and not town. it looks like his scum read on refa just dissolves because he can't keep up the pretense.
Honestly Refa's posts are relatable and adorable. They're not BLATANTLY scummy like me yelling at Shadoweh and Abu for emptyposting, but there's also a very noticeable pattern.And then this is repeated when Refa jumps on the Raikaria wago-wait whatserela, what was the noticeable pattern you were going to talk about originally? And what about Refa's vote pinged you in the first place, can you explain?
Sorry Serela, still trying to sort out my thoughts here. What's bothering me about you is1.If you mean, "didn't care who got lynched between Abu and Shadoweh", this is correct! However, please keep in mind, that it's because both of them are (were?) my top scumreads. A Rai lynch would have been terrible and when I realized that it was seriously heading in that direction I was like "wait what, dude, no"
1) At the end of the day, it felt like you didn't really care about who got lynched
2) I can get having a hard time scumreading coming into today but it read to me like what Conq described your scum meta as
So I'd like to know
1) Why are your null reads where they are? Why can't they be town or scum reads?
2) What happened to your cases from yesterday? Legit question because I don't actually remember them.
2) What happened to your cases from yesterday? Legit question because I don't actually remember them.I started out with a Rai sort-of-case but after that end-of-day debacle Rai is a townread. Then I had the abu case (lynched) and the shadoweh case (currently voting her). D1 I also mentioned your Rai hop rubbing me wrong but last night I had that post where I actually reread you and found out I was totally wrong there and you're a townread now! I think that covers everything I talked about looking scummy D1 already.
Conq, I think the gambit was really obvious, to me at least(“don’t hammer guys”) but seriously I think this is town!Shadoweh. Town!Shadoweh gets more annoyed while being under pressure from things she thinks are bullstrawberries and scum!Shadoweh doesn’t have the same kind of reaction, she just tries to make herself as small as possible iirc and blend in while watching townies kill each other. She is low presence but I think that’s more because she’s been swallowed up by a hella active game thread.Well I guess I can understand Shadoweh being low presence regardless of alignment because she doesn't really play mafia anymore, but the biggest thing that pinged me was that she never tried to engage with me D1 despite all my efforts. And then it just took me fakeclaiming a result on her for her to pop in and finally respond and fairly quickly at that! Seems like she was actually reading along the thread or possibly someone alerted her to it. (The other option is that town!Shadoweh was also reading along earlier and made a conscious decision not to engage, which would annoy me on a different level if true).
Wrt Oarfish: my old read on them was town, because I felt like they had conviction in their arguments even if the logic was faulty and I felt like that was more likely to come from town. I forced myself to try and pay more attention to Oarfish and Zeep on reread because my eyes tended to glaze over their posts at first, and felt worse because I didn’t actually feel like they believed their scumreads. The conviction in their arguments I felt before felt more like they believed they’d just made a really good push, but it didn’t feel like they were trying to discern anyone’s alignment.
When Nuxl asked how they would deal with reading a player who had an unconventional playstyle they flake on the answer and get mad at a completely different point, which is weird, and later they miss the point of why Dormio found their Shadoweh vote suspicious (timing instead of content). Idk, it feels like they’re wilfully ignoring things that doesn’t work with what they want to do and that bothers me a lot. I also think their Shadoweh suspicion kinda aged badly, it feels built around the fact that “Shadoweh can do better” which is not solid and honestly makes their reaction to Conq’s gambit weird. If Oarfish had a scumread on Shadoweh then why are they ignoring Conq’s ongoing push on them? You’d think that they’d show interest but most of their posting today has revolved around themselves instead, like saying that Prims was killed so he couldn’t change their read on them (when you could easily say Prims was killed because he would’ve wanted to lynch scum!Oarfish too).
Oarfish, what happened to your Shadoweh read and what do you think of what she just posted?
What definitely stood out to me as weird, however, was Conqueror's gambit to claim a result on Shadoweh. I like to think of Conqueror as being smart enough to realize beforehand how stupid the whole gambit was, but it's also not as though Conqueror tried to drag it out given how quickly and readily Conqueror was willing to drop the entire charade, so I am legitimately confused so as to what the point of the entire song and dance was.It was pretty stupid; there's a reason why I dropped it pretty quickly after her response! I did it because I figured if there was even a 1% chance that Shadoweh would just slip up from it then it was worth a try. And if it didn't it would still likely get her to post more, which would make her more readable to me. Also, I've always wanted to do something stupid like this and seeing as I don't play mafia anymore this might be my last chance
Why don't you think that they're scum together?Actually, you're right, I guess Shadoweh hasn't actually pushed Serela directly and it wouldn't be out of place for Serela to get confirmation bias on a Shadoweh buddy. Ah yes motk meta is flowing back to me despite all efforts to shut it out.
Refa, I'm always a lynch target and today's my day.i find this post incredibly relatable, around d3 the serela townreads are usually pretty secure but it's not like anyone ever actually liked my cases except for maybe Subterranean Animism Mafia where the mafia thought I must be a cop *sobs* NOT EVEN MY SLAM DUNK SUPER CLEAR OBVIOUS CASES IN SWORDGIRLS ANONYMAFIA THAT WERE ALSO ALL CORRECT
You murder the convincing players and lynch the unconvincing players, right? When's the last time anyone said "Ho yes Oarfish, that argument was very persuasive. I shall now vote alongside you"
No, it's always "Oarfish is a wacky dude, he's more than likely town but who really knows"
[talking about shadoweh] i didn't like hate their eod but totally was buying the claim as i read the page lmao so i felt justified for being pinged by them earlier itg. gun to head i'd say the reaction town but what the hell does that leave for the rest of the game rightEh, any mafia worth their salt wouldn't immediately cave to a town reporting a night result on them, and she might not have even had an action to witness regardless of being maf. (even if not mafia goon, there's passives and junk) Or if you mean the claim, claiming early tends to feel like a more town-leaning action, even though it's not actually -hard- to do as mafia, and she had enough justification with the people talking about wagoning her (albiet it looked unlikely to happen, but it was a possibility) so eh