Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[Serela]

for the record I can't even remember half of my own posts

[ActionDan]

You wouldn't be Serela if you could :V

[zwerdjib]

wait strawberries
##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib

Also I still totally want to lynch Dan and am on board with that but I also very much think zwerd is scum

i believe you already voted me

and i just took time to read your post and my own post and i owe this game a readslist but life is sucky

[NekoNekoRex]

##Unvote
##Vote: sb

[NekoNekoRex]

Full steam ahead.
See nothing but RED
This lynch took too long.
MY GUT WAS NEVER WRONG

[Disquieted]

for the record I can't even remember half of my own posts

This is a problem, and it means you're overinvested. It makes you do dumb things.

[Serela]

wh-

dude. Could you like... stop just insulting me for no reason??? This is how I am 24/7 in any case. So uh. Stop.

[NekoNekoRex]

AbuHumaid (YuugenMagan) (9): Serela, Duskfall98, Conqueror, Prims, Dormio Ergo Sum, Nuxl, Serela, O4rfish, Niektory, ,sb, Shadoweh, AbuHumaid
Raikaria (Sunny Milk) (4): Serela, zwerdjib, Conqueror, Prims, sb, Refa, Duskfall98, AbuHumaid, zwerdjib, Shadoweh, Raikaria
Dormio (Ran Yakumo) (1): sb, Niektory, Xinnidy

Chugga Chugga Chugga

Duskfall98 (Shinki) (6): Shadoweh, zwerdjib, Niektory, Conqueror, Shadoweh, Fabloo, ActionDan, zwerdjib, NekoNekoRex, sb
O4rfish (Rumia) (1): NekoNekoRex, sb, Dormio Ergo Sum, NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh
NekoNekoRex (Chen) (0): sb

Chugga Chugga Chugga

Duskfall98 (Shinki) (7): ActionDan, Niektory, NekoNekoRex, O4rfish, sb, Niektory, Dormio Ergo Sum, Raikaria
ActionDan (Rinnosuke Morichika) (0): sb, Serela, NekoNekoRex, Duskfall98

CHOO CHOO

[Niektory]

[O4rfish]

Serela copped Prims, me, and Dormio. I can see why the other targets, but saving my life was probably not the best use of a valuable ability.

The case against Conq is weaker now that we know Duskfall is town. However, Nuxl was killed - his EOD3 was suspicious but we know he's town so I would guess it looked threatening to Conq and/or sb.

[Serela]

Saving town a mislynch is a valuable ability! Otherwise I'd probably have voted you going into d3 and it looks like you were the most likely mislynch, then today people would've been all over duskfall, and we'd enter lylo with all town lynches still. This way we're already at that gamestate but it's a day earlier.

I was debating between sb and you and thinking we'd just lynch both of niek/dan and that it'd be for the best, but then I reread sb and it was just You. I think it went pretty well b/c as said earlier I'd absolutely have mislynched you yesterday full speed ahead

[O4rfish]

But getting a result on sb would have been worth more.

[NekoNekoRex]

getting a result on sb now will clear you, Serela, and Dan

[Serela]

[NekoNekoRex]

given the giant Mass of posts I honestly don't want to read before I started posting, not many yet. (Although I might go back and read some later when I'm feeling less fatigued)
Putting it that way, I could see that being valid. I believe I stated strongly before my opinions on Nuxl prior to and during my vote on himSo it's a vote that might be incorrect without me reading the other half of the game I wasn't participating in, but for sure I thought what I had read was scummy, and reading more of his posts wouldn't make me think the initial ones were any less scummy.

On the other hand the meta part is the only part I admit I fire trucked up on, or might not have as clear as I initially did, mostly due to mis-reading. Not gonna refute that.

as for other reads, I'm mostly starting from when I started posting so not a lot yet. there is simply too much to read. i thought Dormio's vote on Oar felt like a pretty solid catch.

I never did get to come out with my pocket crumb

don't ask why there's a P in there. I'm not very good at crumbing

[O4rfish]

getting a result on sb now will clear you, Serela, and Dan

You're saying I should vote for sb, which my gut agrees with.  I don't understand how that would clear several people though.

[Niektory]

I'm claiming Not Being Vanilla

I will literally stop an o4rfish lynch don't make me do this

you're not getting any more info out of me than that right now so don't even ask

it's not in everyone's best interests to force the situation further and I would REALLY rather not No Lynch today which is liable to occur if only o4rfish is still viable in two hours before people won't move
you'll understand later this was in your best interest please understand that I'm not the Serela who fakeclaimed cop to try to pull the nk on my second game, at this point I know what I'm doing >:C

Let's assume you're telling the truth. Why did scum leave you alone last night?

Did they really believe you were a governor? You were obviously hiding something with the ambiguous claim. And your conviction in defending O4rfish was suspiciously strong. It did look like stopping the lynch was just a bluff and you had some sort of result on him, even to me.
Did they fall for the crazy Serela persona and assume you don't in fact know what you're doing and you're digging your own grave? Or trying to bait the nightkill again?
Did they think we wouldn't believe you and lynch you anyway?

Ehh. That aside, your story does seem to check out. I'll see if I want to believe when I wake up. *yawn*

[Conqueror]

They have done absolutely nothing this game

You couldn't tell me who they're townreading or scumreading.

Can you?

hey smartbomb. im going to be fairly restrained here because i don't want to make this game any more unbearable than it is already. say this to my face and tell me you believe it, because it's complete bullstrawberries to say i've done nothing this game. my d1 and d2 dont just magically disappear just for the sake of argument. even though i did jack strawberries yesterday you could still tell from my posts who i was townreading. scumreading, not so much because yeah i pretty much stopped wanting to play on d3. it's partially why i wasn't so sure about duskfall anymore because he was on the same wavelength re: not wanting to play anymore. i was okay with a dan lynch and thought it would go ahead since it was the only wagon people were really talking about. i didnt make it back to the thread for oog reasons so that's why i wasnt voting at the end. anyway are you ever planning on responding to my responses to your case? or are you just going to keep ignoring my attempts to reach to me and say NYA NYA NYA EVERYTHING YOU DO IS SCUMMY? you are literally making up strawberries to push me right now.

dan i dont scumread raik smh. why am i on the table for you now?

You're saying I should vote for sb, which my gut agrees with.  I don't understand how that would clear several people though.

i imagine from associatives since sb pushed all 3 of you. it's sb so if he's mafia i have my doubts about how accurate it would be but it's a decent start.

##vote: disquieted
i wonder how much resistance there is to this. for some reason people have been ignoring this slot.

im going to take serela's results and claim at face value i think. there's something on my mind here but we can revisit it if it becomes relevant. remove raik who probably cant pull off eod1 as mafia; the other possibility i had in mind was that he was willing to take the hit as mafia to prevent abu from vigging an important scum teammates but abu's other stated targets were duskfall, prims, and serela, two of which flipped town and serela who i believe is town, so yeah. i dont think raik/serela works as a team from other interactions anyway.

leaves a pool of sb/zeep/smartbomb/dan/niek. it's really hard for me to give a strawberries about this game right now (sorry kilga) so id be down to try and lynch any of these people. or maybe y'all can lynch me so i get yeeted out of this game and dont have to be the game losing mislynch, i'd like to avoid that if possible since it feels like people are setting up for that B).

[raikaria]

Hey guys you want good news?

I have to self-isolate for 14 blooming days. This gives me more time to play Mafia.

Provided I can concentrate between coughing every few mins.

---

Anyway, at this point I legitimately think there's a high chance of scum being lurkers. The good old 'people who are actually putting in effort are town'.

By 'lurkers' I include:

ActionDan
Niektory
zwerdjib [He wasn't even voting yesterday and while he posts; as I said yesterday; he's Active Lurking which is arguably *worse*]

Also... we're running out of potential not-town? Assuming Serela isn't doing some massive gambit [I mean, if he knew O4r was town he probably should have resisted the wagon a bit sooner? But Serela also wanted to hide his PR]

Also I guess it's worth mentioning the fact that neither Me; Dormio; NNR; O4rfish or Serela are dead yet is really weird. It's really making the noose tighten.

Like; here's the playerlist; with Greens being myself [I know I'm town and most people agree] and semi-clears:

SB
Zwerdjib
O4rfish
Serela
NekoNekoRex

ActionDan
Conqueror
Dormio
Raikaria
Disquieted
Niektory

AKA: The 'scum' are among 6 potential slots; and I'm fairly confident saying that there are 4 of them since this was a 17P game. Basically; if we hit one of these 6 slots at random we should have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum. And then we can throw scumhunting into the mix to [hopefully] improve our odds.

Note all three people who can be classed as lurkers are among them.

And of them two of them [ActionDan and Niektory] were riding the Duskfall Wagon.

Speaking of that wagon:

Well time to digest some walls.

But Serela is right we should be placing votes around.

##Vote: Duskfall

Serela do you actually townread... the whole game?

Uh... so why did you actually vote for Duskfall ActionDan? And ride this all day? Remember when I said Serela was scummy for doing this? Sitting on a wagon all day with no reasoning?

There's also this post towards sb:

Well in that case feel free to vote Duskfall!

Otherwise I really don't agree that mod ought to interfere but shurg

SB seems confused who to vote for and this is Dan's 'attempt' to convince him.

But ActionDan also stated support for the Zwej wagon at ED3; although he notably didn't join it in our attempt to push it through. Still; a few negative points for Dan+Zwej; unless Dan is so sure Zwej won't happen he's taking the chance to bus.

---

What Neik actually did post D3 I kinda like; at least a lot more than ActionDan. He at least makes some attempt at a small case on Duskfall; and his reactions towards Serela at ED3 being cryptic seem from a town PoV.


---

I'm starting to need a rest at this point I can't read all of Zwej's posts on a re-read right now; but this from D4 stands out:

as for the cop being a scum gambit, i think its mostly just a theory fueled by desperation and rage. the main argument in favor of serela is the crumbing, which is pretty much undeniable when i see the posts hes compiled and in hindsight they were the most obvious hints ive ever seen. i dont think this is a cop lie. though i guese mafia cop does exist...? are there 3p in this setup? thats an important question we should ask

Zwej defending Serela's cop claim throws a lot of doubt onto a Serela/O4r/NNR/Dormio scumteam megagambit, because then why would Zwej be defending it? Unless the scumteam is Serela/O4r/Zwej/someone else and Serela's just claiming Town on Dormio because it's an easy claim.

Actually; claiming your cop was on the N1 flip; and then N3 you checked the claimed Mason is quite suspicious. And N2 happened to be on a primary wagon.

Luckily we're not on LYLO. So Serela lynch absolutely shouldn't be done today, he has another night to get 'information'. Or be killed by scum. But I would certainly regard his cop claim with a pinch of salt. Especially given, you know, he's alive.

---
Side note: Weirdly enough; until Day 3; ActionDan's vote has ended on the lynch of the next day. D1 he was on Shadoweh; Day 2 he was on Duskfall. Weird. But it also means he's only pushed Townies.

At this current moment I actually think the best option to lynch is ActionDan. It's somewhat hypocritical since it's what I called Serela out for D3; but Serela's apparently the Cop so...

##Vote: ActionDan

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement111
{
        (Serela)'s claim reeks and I hate it.
}
define Statement112
{
        I don't believe that a town (Serela) would cop (Prims) night 1 over all of the lurkers and unknowns. Especially since (Serela) never actually mentions any real opinion of (Prims) at all during the entirety of day 1.
}
define Question21
{
        Am I supposed to believe that Serela really picked (Prims) over people like (raikaria)? Or (ActionDan). Or (Niektory). Or (Xinnidy).
}
define Statement113
{
        I should also mention here that (Serela) had (Serela)'s vote on (raikaria) for almost the entirety of day 1, and yet still felt the need to cop (Prims) over (raikaria). Or (ActionDan). Or (Niektory). Or (Xinnidy).
}
define Statement114
{
        During day 2, (Serela) even talks about how (Serela) has difficulty reading lurkers such as (ActionDan) in (Reply #1091) but doesn't use the tool at (Serela)'s disposal that literally tells (Serela) the alignment of these unreadables.
}
define Statement115
{
        On top of that, despite it being universally agreed that (Duskfall98)'s end of day 2 was weird as all hell, and (Serela) expressing this same opinion, (Serela) decides to cop (O4rfish) who nobody cared about outside of myself and (sb) at the time.
}
define Statement116
{
        Then, during day 3, (Serela) basically admits to being a cop with the super unnatural way that (Serela) expresses (Serela)'s unwillingness to support an (O4rfish) lynch.
}
define Statement117
{
        It's really weird how early (Serela) is willing to out (Serela) given that the only people who were really pushing for (O4rfish) was myself and (sb).
}
define Question22
{
        And yet (Serela) survives the night and is not roleblocked either. This doesn't ring warning bells for (Playerbase)?
}
define Statement118
{
        (Serela) also talks during day 3 about how (Serela) has a solid scumread on (zwerdjib), and yet (Serela) decides that (Serela) doesn't want to check (zwerdjib)'s alignment.
}
define Question23
{
        In fact, if we look at (Reply #1848), (Serela) expresses heavy suspicion of the following people: (zwerdjib), (ActionDan), (Duskfall98), (Niektory), and (Conqueror). Many of these suspiscions have been long-standing for (Serela). How many of these people has (Serela) checked?
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement111)
        ask (Statement112)
        ask (Question21)
        ask (Statement113)
        ask (Statement114)
        ask (Statement115)
        ask (Statement116)
        ask (Statement117)
        ask (Question22)
        ask (Statement118)
        ask (Question23)
        ask (Statement111)
        return (Opinions)
}
query (Alignments)
{
        cout <<(scum)+(Serela)
}
##Vote: Serela

[NekoNekoRex]

You're saying I should vote for sb, which my gut agrees with.  I don't understand how that would clear several people though.

Clearing you clears Serela, because his claim is easier to back up.

Dan feels like an arbitrary scum mislynch given how few potential mislynches there are left if Serela is town

[NekoNekoRex]

of course I could be wrong about this and serela is pulling the biggest throw gambit of all time

but I think lynching sb will make that pretty clear either way

[Disquieted]

Gonna relax. Sorry Serela. Regardless of what sort of emotion I have, you are going to be impossible to work with simply because any sort of case I’ve made you are not going to read and you’re instead using a case as not a case, but a red flag. That’s not the point of a case. When I say Conqueror is scummy, I don’t mean “take another look at Conqueror and come to the exact same conclusion cause you didn’t actually read anything I said”.

There’s nothing else to say. When you have to ask who I’m pushing when I’ve made it clear all game and VOTED on that same person by end of day there’s no excuse. And if that’s your identity that you are going to take affront to, then you are losing the game by being like this and if you want to own this loss on your own, that quite frankly is up to you.

You can sit up at end of day yesterday and consider “hey let’s lynch an afk zwerdjib at the 71st hour of a 72 hour day and since it didn’t go through I MUST be right, imagine if he flips scum!” That doesn’t work. I’m going to try and look at what you’re saying now, cause I can’t do that at the 71st hour, and 7 people aren’t going to be able to do that together. But no, that doesn’t work and it doesn’t prove anything, except you made scum eat popcorn regardless of zwerdjib’s alignment. Taking a run at ActionDan was definitely preferable and 100% more possible. But we have this instead.

Or I could sit back and let NNR flame you, which I’m sure is not preferable. I get it, you’re a cop, you put 100% into this game, but you’re spending too much time thinking and not enough time taking a break, cause you’re doing stuff like the above.

I really don’t think this game is winnable if you insist on carrying everything on your back. And that’s what you’re doing. However, it’s what most of the game is doing, so I shouldn’t be so hard.

That’s all.

[Disquieted]

Gonna have dinner and get back to this in a bit. I have thoughts.

[Disquieted]

First off.

Conqueror you've written 700 words of anger and you've entirely missed the point.

In one post you have proven that you have no scumread. This vote on me isn't anywhere near a scumread, it's a feelvote, I spend the entire day pushing you yesterday and your read on my slot has ended in "I feel like nobody is looking at this guy". I'm OK as both alignments, but let's talk about the fact you're deeply familiar with both high-impact scumgames I've had, to the point where the only thing anyone talks about me is "wow this guy carried the mafia team by messaging 180 players every single day" or "wow this guy won the game as a serial killer with 175 players in the game". I'll call myself a complex character, yes? You have expressed none of that thought when evaluating me, you have not said my push is scummy or towny, you have decided NOT TO GIVE A READ.

Instead you draw back to Day 1 and Day 2. Let's ignore the fact that I have already complained about your Day 2 being narrow, cause that's not the point. That's nowhere NEAR the point. I'm saying that out of every post I've read since I've subbed in, you have done NOTHING but get annoyed at people playing mafia wrong without even giving them a read - apparently you don't scumread raikaria. So what's the point?! You have no reads, you spend all this time wallposting but in the end you seem to be incredibly NOT INTERESTED in doing anything towny, which is protect townreads and hunt for mafia.

I see none of that. You have a solve. It is the laziest solve I have ever seen, you have taken all three PRs, assumed they're all town, and their associates out of the equation and gone shrug, there's like a small team dissociation. Every. Single. Person in this game has got a hot scumread right now and you have absolutely nothing on Day 4.

You can't change that with 700 words either way. You literally admitted it in the same post. Your excuse is "wow mafia sucks", but you've literally spent 4000 words defending yourself and the fire in which you defend against me makes it very clear that you do NOT think mafia sucks (or you would've told me to get off your back for not solving cause mafia fire trucking sucks) implying that there's significant cognitive dissonance here. So. What is the deal.

[NekoNekoRex]

agree with smartbomb

people need to stop giving free passes to people who have been active while doing nothing all game

lynching serela, who I have read town all day and don't want to believe is pulling some stupid gambit, is a complete waste when we could be lynching other people that have been scummy and bad

I also agree with smartbomb but I think Conq is so obviously scum that he's better saved for later. I want to lynch sb because:
-His votes are very narrow and exclusively on townie people, Oarfish (who Serela purports to clear), and Dan, who I think is townie and lynching him is a mistake

[Disquieted]

Alright.

Dormio, I think Serela's results makes sense. I think his breadcrumbing makes sense. I think him copping you last night makes sense to him over several of his suspicion fingers, though it's frankly a pretty dumb move, yes.

Let's turn this around; why DOES scum!Serela cop you?

Give him the try. I don't know why you don't trust him. He's solving the game, he's inside the game, he's driving himself crazy with the fact that he can't find the wolves. If you think Serela can fake all of that, be my guest.

I think if there's anything to be said, it's the fact that nobody has suggested a godfather yet.

Let's talk about something you raise. Why is Nuxl dead over three town PRs? I think it's pretty simple. I think scum looked at their role abilities, maybe their numbers, and said "Alright. If there's any way Serela is a good PR like cop over something stupid like governor/makes someone unlynchable, this is stupid, this game is stupid, Kilga what are you doing. Let's kill the towniest person in the game who seemed like he was somewhat worried about the state of end of day and may have been on track, and hope Serela gets mislynched through a PR by raikaria and the masons."

That's how I see it. I think you should be around. Got any argument against that?

[NekoNekoRex]

sb also completely changes his reads whenever it's convenient (d2 is a good example) and has seemingly gone with the flow towards every mislynch

I really want my gut to be right I am 100% convinced my gut is right, my gut is always right

[Disquieted]

Alright, that leaves what I want to do today.

##Vote: sb

Yes NNR, I'm voting for sb. That still leaves the question, for me, of who else is scum, cause Conqueror and sb aren't two mafia in a 17 player game. Heck I might even be wrong, the only reason why I sound so sure is cause Conqueror and sb are just continually being scummy and/or dodging my points so I might as well press the advantage.

I want to, leave myself open to the following, cause I have a small misread on one of the following players.

O4rfish (incredibly unlikely cause it means o4rfish is a don)
zwerdjib
ActionDan
Niektory

I want to think about things. Zwerdjib's entrance was frankly underwhelming, yes, and I should give Serela his moment. I want to figure out if my weird read on Niektory is very confidently right, cause it means I will have to devote more words into why I think Niektory is town. And I want to think about ActionDan more.

[Disquieted]

Belatedly; I think if O4rfish is a don, it would mean scum would always kill Serela. That role guarantees there's a cop in the game, Serela basically claimed that he would've been the cop. So the only world is O4rfish/Serela.

NNR, yep, that's basically about it.

Gonna shut up now, posting too much.