Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[Fabloo]

there's a fair handful of players that are way easier to discern based on game differences on my homesite than tommy is but he's still catchable (the best player on our site who uses pmeta usually catches him pretty often)

are you a homework person fabloo

Only if I have to, just like real life.

[Fabloo]

Conq, did I miss you responding to me? It's been an actual real life day now so I think I'd rather just like to hear your opinion about me instead of opinion about a catch-up. I disagree with your concerns about Shadoweh and I cannot read someone like Serela, and believe me I'm trying to.

[Nuxl]

I think people who fall into the hypothetical third are those who should be fact-checked more often then. He's going to sit behind meta or even idle until people stop paying attention. I really have nothing substantial to say about him other than he is here sometimes and then he is not. That's a bit troubling if you compare the output to others. Writing paragraphs or extensive thought isn't the ticket I'm looking for either, you can say a lot with one sentence. It's just that Duskfall hasn't done that. I have no problem with people who are concise, but if you can tell me an opinion that you can solidly remember that he's given that actually followed some kind of process that you could refer back to? I'd like to see it. I think he's being intentionally coy and I haven't liked it since D1.

sorry how is the bolded relevant, can you lmk wrt idling and who you're referring to with the "hypothetical third" archetype. understood otherwise.

I don't think "opinion" is the word here wrt tommy but inthread behavior is probably more important. Maybe I'm giving too much credit for stuff I want to see, but let me know what you think.

this no longer becomes a tell when i say it but the funny part is tommy's entrances into a thread on our homesite are super different based on alignment (won't specify HOW but given a certain sample i think you can pick it up). he's a bit more scared as scum. he doesn't really seem scared at all this game. didn't really ping me awkwardly since he got right to the point with his entrance (iirc some of them were pretty fresh and he was first vote on abu) and had sorta forceful behavior since.

i actually typed something else up instead of this line right here but was reading a prior game and realized it was no longer true. maybe dont treat my word like it's gospel on this instance but i still kinda tr the behavior

[Nuxl]

@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment

define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game

[Nuxl]

@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment

define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game

adding refa here too to selective pings

[Fabloo]

sorry how is the bolded relevant, can you lmk wrt idling and who you're referring to with the "hypothetical third" archetype. understood otherwise.

I don't think "opinion" is the word here wrt tommy but inthread behavior is probably more important. Maybe I'm giving too much credit for stuff I want to see, but let me know what you think.

this no longer becomes a tell when i say it but the funny part is tommy's entrances into a thread on our homesite are super different based on alignment (won't specify HOW but given a certain sample i think you can pick it up). he's a bit more scared as scum. he doesn't really seem scared at all this game. didn't really ping me awkwardly since he got right to the point with his entrance (iirc some of them were pretty fresh and he was first vote on abu) and had sorta forceful behavior since.

i actually typed something else up instead of this line right here but was reading a prior game and realized it was no longer true. maybe dont treat my word like it's gospel on this instance but i still kinda tr the behavior

I was connecting the dots. Being scared? Yeah, I don't know if I'd say Duskfall is scared. My impression of him as a player is that he fakes it until he makes it. He believes what he says until he himself or others can't deny it. You don't need to confirm my thoughts. I just wonder how long he has to continue what he's doing before it becomes a problem.

[Nuxl]

I was connecting the dots. Being scared? Yeah, I don't know if I'd say Duskfall is scared. My impression of him as a player is that he fakes it until he makes it. He believes what he says until he himself or others can't deny it. You don't need to confirm my thoughts. I just wonder how long he has to continue what he's doing before it becomes a problem.

i would say something in response but it's probably better to let you brood on it because it's not important if i'm not 100% convinced

i still think positively on his slot though

[Fabloo]

@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment

define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game

No.I don't think Duskfall is passive at all. There's a clear attempt made, however you interpret it to do something. It just comes out as nothing. He's here. He posts, and then people move on with their lives. Passiveness to me is where someone is just going with the ebb and flow. I don't know where Duskfall is at all but it's certainly not with this thread. His comments read to me like someone who is spectating, not playing.

[zwerdjib]

@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment

define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game

admittedly if duskfall is passive i am afk

so i will give him a pass here

[Nuxl]

on smogon i usually like responses to show that i've read them so pretend i've liked your post

[Conqueror]

Conq, did I miss you responding to me? It's been an actual real life day now so I think I'd rather just like to hear your opinion about me instead of opinion about a catch-up. I disagree with your concerns about Shadoweh and I cannot read someone like Serela, and believe me I'm trying to.

i think i responded earlier today, yeah.

i don't have a real opinion on you yet. you seem like a skilled, cautious player, with a playstyle similar to mine in some way in that you make a lot of gamestate reads rather than player reads although i feel like you use gamestate reads more. im gauging you less on your posts and where your pushes line up compared to who i think is scummy. i'm not sure why you went from voting me (a pretty aggressive vote gamestate-wise) to voting someone like niektory (a complete black hole and a coin flip as far as im concerned). at the same time though im also interested in the niektory thing takes off or if it just stalls there.

[Conqueror]

@conq @fabloo @whoeverwantsathoughtexperiment

define the word "passive" (this can be mentally). do you personally think duskfall has fit your definition of "passive" this game

For me, passive applies to anyone who isn't actively moving along the game state, whether it's due to a lack of presence or a lack of mentality. duskfall didn't feel passive to me yesterday but he feels passive to me today.

[O4rfish]

To Refa in re Serela's voters, Serela's posts
Serela is tough for me to read.  I've misread Serela with high confidence, as people know.
Refa - you don't appear to be confident about Serela. Is he really your strongest scumread?
Niektory - literally dunno about her slot. Her vote for Serela sort of makes sense but she could accuse other players of acting similarly.
Conq is a pretty good player.  I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake.  Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit. 
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid.  But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid. 

[zwerdjib]

For me, passive applies to anyone who isn't actively moving along the game state, whether it's due to a lack of presence or a lack of mentality. duskfall didn't feel passive to me yesterday but he feels passive to me today.

essentially it.

ill give thread a re evalution tomorrow, with this said. hopefully. irl is pretty demotivating rn.

i have a feeling that i will find someone scummy though

[Nuxl]

To Refa in re Serela's voters, Serela's posts
Serela is tough for me to read.  I've misread Serela with high confidence, as people know.
Refa - you don't appear to be confident about Serela. Is he really your strongest scumread?
Niektory - literally dunno about her slot. Her vote for Serela sort of makes sense but she could accuse other players of acting similarly.
Conq is a pretty good player.  I think his attack on Serela makes sense, but it's within his ability to fake.  Reading his posts also makes me suspect Shadoweh, for not responding properly to his gambit. 
If Shadoweh is town, then her townread on Conq is probably valid.  But if Conq is town and continues to have a scumread on Shadoweh, then that's probably valid.

how did Niek's vote on Serela make sense? hahaha

why would you say the reads from conq/shadoweh are accurate on each other if they're town

[Fabloo]

i think i responded earlier today, yeah.

i don't have a real opinion on you yet. you seem like a skilled, cautious player, with a playstyle similar to mine in some way in that you make a lot of gamestate reads rather than player reads although i feel like you use gamestate reads more. im gauging you less on your posts and where your pushes line up compared to who i think is scummy. i'm not sure why you went from voting me (a pretty aggressive vote gamestate-wise) to voting someone like niektory (a complete black hole and a coin flip as far as im concerned). at the same time though im also interested in the niektory thing takes off or if it just stalls there.

Nobody seemed to even consider it anyways. My vote on you. I'm close to reading you the same way but where I'm at right now is I catch you bussing if you're scum or I get shot in the back before I can do it. Are Shadoweh/Serela scumread separately, or are they paired? I'm not sure if you agree but I don't like trying to solve the whole game by myself, even if I'm thinking about it. I take it one scumlynch at a time until the game is over. I think Niektory has the highest chance or at least will give us some breathing hence my vote is there.

[Conqueror]

Nobody seemed to even consider it anyways. My vote on you. I'm close to reading you the same way but where I'm at right now is I catch you bussing if you're scum or I get shot in the back before I can do it. Are Shadoweh/Serela scumread separately, or are they paired? I'm not sure if you agree but I don't like trying to solve the whole game by myself, even if I'm thinking about it. I take it one scumlynch at a time until the game is over. I think Niektory has the highest chance or at least will give us some breathing hence my vote is there.

I'm evaluating them separately until we get a flip. I think they could be paired but it's not a consideration in my mind right now (I haven't caught up on Serela's latest content ftr, might change to something else). I'm pretty similar re:not trying to solve the game by myself and going one lynch at a time so I can understand that at least. What's the reason you have Niek as the highest chance?

[Fabloo]

I'm evaluating them separately until we get a flip. I think they could be paired but it's not a consideration in my mind right now (I haven't caught up on Serela's latest content ftr, might change to something else). I'm pretty similar re:not trying to solve the game by myself and going one lynch at a time so I can understand that at least. What's the reason you have Niek as the highest chance?

It's not the highest chance, it's just the path of least resistance. I don't even think even scum will have an issue losing Niek if that's the case. Maybe Niek will do something to be townie if applied pressure as well.

[O4rfish]

Nuxl - Niektory voted for Abu, who flipped as his claim.  She wanted to blame someone, and if Serela's post was what influenced her to vote, then she would be upset with Serela. 

Conq and Shadoweh and Serela have played many games with each other.  If they have a strong read, it's probably accurate.  If they're town, they'll tell the truth about having a strong read.  However, if they're scum, they could choose between a true read for false reasons, or a false read for false reasons.

[Nuxl]

Nuxl - Niektory voted for Abu, who flipped as his claim.  She wanted to blame someone, and if Serela's post was what influenced her to vote, then she would be upset with Serela. 

Conq and Shadoweh and Serela have played many games with each other.  If they have a strong read, it's probably accurate.  If they're town, they'll tell the truth about having a strong read.  However, if they're scum, they could choose between a true read for false reasons, or a false read for false reasons.

can you reread niek's iso and tell me how you got there wrt it making sense

okay the second question was mainly for mindset, thanks

[O4rfish]

No, I literally just did that.

[Nuxl]

given they never mentioned serela throughout the entire game and never provided reasoning on their abu vote...?

[O4rfish]

I'm not saying I believe it, and I'm certainly saying I would act differently in that situation, I'm just saying the given reason has some logic to it.

[O4rfish]

My wagon:
sb - probably scum
Dormio - more likely scum than not scum
NNR - more likely town than not town

Dormio is first deciding who to go after, then casing them.  This in itself isn't scummy, but it looks bad if that's the only way you pick up suspects.  I don't expect him to have a higher level of activity, but I do expect him to read the game rather than just isos.
Due to his statements, if Dormio is town then NNR is almost certainly town, and if Dormio is scum then NNR might still be town.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement79
{
        I like how (O4rfish)'s response to my case against (O4rfish) is to just say that I'm probably scum because I'm making cases on (O4rfish).
}
define Statement80
{
        To be honest, I don't really have that much to add to the thread outside of my earlier case on (O4rfish). Still willing to sheep the (Shadoweh) case but I'd much rather see (O4rfish) lynched.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement79)
        ask (Statement80)
        return (Opinions)
}

[O4rfish]

Really, because that isn't remotely what I said.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement81
{
        (O4rfish) said nothing about my case and simply stated that I'm probably scum for supposedly picking people first, then making cases.
}
define Statement82
{
        If that isn't a poor excuse for an OMGUS opinion, I don't know what is.
}
if (Reply #1225)
{
        cout <<(Statement81)
        cout <<(Statement82)
}
O4rfish said nothing about my case and simply stated that I'm probably scum for supposedly picking people first, then making cases. If that isn't a poor excuse for an OMGUS opinion, I don't know what is.

[Shadoweh]

Hello I just wanted to announce that I HAVE UNWRAPPED THE BUBBLE WRAP, I HAVE A MIC, ITS REAL AND ITS ATTACHED TO THIS HEADSET i can't take a picture though because my phone camera shuts down my phone when i use it

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

if (Reply #1227)
{
        cout <<(Fake News)
}

[O4rfish]

You want me to address your case on me? OK, starting with d1:

First I posted this post giving reads. Then I posted this case for voting Nuxl and later this defense for it, which also includes dislike for more of Shadoweh's early content.
This is your case on me:

The latest exchange, however, has made me realize that I don't like (O4rfish)'s posts. All (O4rfish) has done so far is make a weak case against (Nuxl) that seemed more like a show of annoyance than anything else and emphasize that we do need to make sure that we lynch somebody at the end of the day, only to drop everything to vote for (NekoNekoRex) for a supposed slip then backing off immediately when an explanation was provided.

So, voting someone for a scumslip is scummy? And if it turns out to be a misunderstanding, unvoting is scummy?  I don't think so.

Then you posted this explanation for switching your vote:

It felt to me as though O4rfish's case on Nuxl was extremely forced, which was further evidenced by how quickly he dropped the case in order to chase a supposed scumslip by NekoNekoRex. After that, O4rfish continues to do little of importance, with O4rfish's biggest action being a jump onto Shadoweh's wagon which feels opportunistic to me. Personally, I'd still rather be voting for zwerdjib, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, the punishment for no lynching is hilarious and also something that I never want to see happen and so I feel that this lynch has a higher likelihood of happening.

Going from Nuxl's wagon to Shadoweh's larger wagon is opportunistic, but going from Zwerdjib's wagon to my empty wagon which "has a larger likelihood of happening" is just fine?  According to what?