Author Topic: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)  (Read 473464 times)

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AbuHumaid

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #210 on: June 01, 2020, 04:55:05 AM »
OK, I'm a bit behind, but some thoughts:
I don't agree with Waffles' push on Dormio, but I don't think it's necessarily scummy. I can't see why a scum would do that at the start of the game.
Mass-claiming this early is objectively bad, so don't do it. Why do you want a mass-claim, @zwerdjib?

AbuHumaid

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #211 on: June 01, 2020, 05:05:27 AM »
gah, i almost forgot about nucleus. wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, but it feels like i'm making the same mistake again. could def see this as a gambit to secure an early town read, especially since it mirrors what he's seen in the games he read/participated in

##Vote: NucleusWaffles
Can you elaborate? Has Nucleus done something like this before as scum?

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #212 on: June 01, 2020, 05:26:18 AM »
I do not want to talk about ships and war.

I want to talk about signalling and the wolf.

The wolf is a canine, so is the cuddly Chinhuahua, so is the Nureongi.

They are beautiful animals, and different from the sheep in that they have a prominient, almost instinctual wagging tail response to any external stimuli.

The sheep is actually symbolic of weakness and innocence in Christianity, yet the sheep is also associated with the lamb, the ram, the goat, ideologically, the child, the weak, and the devil are similar and a fine line is treaded between them.

I do not choose who to be born as, but I am born as a sheep this round, I am now innocent, unaware of a greater purpose, and lack the inherent social signalling in dogs such as a distinctive bark and vocalisations.


This is the position we are in, the flock, the sheep, the masses who cannot have a distincitve signal or voice.

The mod provides the dogs with a distinct signal, the quicktopic, some bastard mods or gods twist the intent of nature so the quicktopic is not trustworthy.

We are not dealing with such a jester god, this is an open setup, we have open communications.

Although the wolves may mimic our signal, we must steer clear of the smokescreen and use what resources we have.

Bank on your instinct, vote the scum.

AbuHumaid

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2020, 05:27:44 AM »
I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?

raikaria

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2020, 07:24:12 AM »
I forgot what raikaria said that I should think about.

I think the introspection is that I can't read raikaria, the giant banner is distracting and I am psychologically still in the 'He's fighting Corona, can't be evil' state.

I... uh... didn't ask for you to think about anything.

And I absolutely can be evil. I'm not, and I actually agree with Serela. People should not write me off as Town simply because I'm stating why massclaiming is bad for Town.

Even a partial massclaim is bad really, as that information narrows down who isn't roles like Battleship; increasing the chances of scum hitting those more pro-town roles.

Information is at a premium for both factions. Town needs to get information, yes, but Scum does too. Also; role =/= alignment. Town doesn't know what alignment each role is. Scum knows each role claim is or is not their alignment because they share their own communication. [And North Korea dosen't care]. This is why a massclaim is scum-favored. Also let's assume no-one counter-claims Fighter.

Let's say I claim Fighter.

Town : Doesn't know if I'm Scum Fighter or Town Fighter

Scum: Knows I'm not Scum Fighter. Also knows I'm not something like Battleship or Evesdrop; which I imagine would be the highest priority for scum to kill.

North Korea - Doesn't care about my alignment

So who is this information more valuable to? The answer is Scum.


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raikaria

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2020, 07:26:08 AM »
Worth mentioning I don't think this whole massclaim thing is enough to vote people for. I think it's likly to be misguided Town rather than scum.

After all; MotK has a habit of scum lurking D1 and the 'Town Leaders' being early wagons simply because there's more content to use to make cases.


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I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Bardiche

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2020, 10:04:53 AM »
I feel like all the spats going on right now are just meaningless noise, and people trying to take out the human element from the game and treat it like a 1p game.

Unless you're North Korea, this is multiplayer. Still really don't like Nucleus framing everything Dormio does as scummy and bending over backwards five ways to justify it.

Does it make sense for scum!Nucleus to make so much noise? Probably not. But by this point he's putting the clinical insanity on so hard, I hardly feel like he takes the game serious and is just fire trucking around. Smells Korean to me.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #217 on: June 01, 2020, 01:08:09 PM »
I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?

read the thread

it wins games i promise you

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #218 on: June 01, 2020, 01:12:02 PM »
Bardiche, are you opposed to meta tells across games because it feels vulnurable/exposing?

Really don't read this but this is harsh comment that I feel I need to get out there, classify this under 'ad hominiem against Bardiche'

Spoiler:
I had a lot of down time between this post but I have been reading as a guest and thinking alot about especially why the shift between "I am bullying Dormio", which I was immediately alerted to, and "Nucleus is clinically insane" which seems like contradictory stances to hold.

If you do not mind, I also want to bring to attention the previous exchange where you expressed regret over explicitly treating K4U harshly. I understand this is a game and its all about lying, deceptive practices, but the way the "Bardiche" persona is being crafted is unpleasant for me to witness currently.

Especially since, I kind of feel betrayed at taking you seriously.

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #219 on: June 01, 2020, 01:18:32 PM »
I reread that spoiler, it really was very unprofessional of me to express emotions like that.

Turns out anoynimity does wonders to maintaining one's image, especially after a long day.

In retrospect, I am probably just triggered about the word 'bullying' and especially coming from someone whom I believe I had bullied out of the game earlier.

I understand you handed out a disclaimer that things are fine, but I still feel personally responsible being the last person in the Ys Mafia whom you interacted with negatively before subbing out.

I really prefer if we can settle this civilly.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #220 on: June 01, 2020, 01:19:32 PM »
What differentiates Daiya from the other people who have made 1~3 posts of no significance?

well i have no idea how anyone else plays and thus how they choose to play the game is less relevant to me. but if i think daiya is playing too passively then of course im going to call it out

also if you think this is an issue in hypocrisy you should probably think about what youre doing right now

Also, I find it difficult to believe that the refusal to follow through on the massclaim idea doesn't factor into the decision to think that Daiya is scum given how you're still so attached to that idea.

...okay

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #221 on: June 01, 2020, 01:24:24 PM »
I... uh... didn't ask for you to think about anything.

And I absolutely can be evil. I'm not, and I actually agree with Serela. People should not write me off as Town simply because I'm stating why massclaiming is bad for Town.

Even a partial massclaim is bad really, as that information narrows down who isn't roles like Battleship; increasing the chances of scum hitting those more pro-town roles.

Information is at a premium for both factions. Town needs to get information, yes, but Scum does too. Also; role =/= alignment. Town doesn't know what alignment each role is. Scum knows each role claim is or is not their alignment because they share their own communication. [And North Korea dosen't care]. This is why a massclaim is scum-favored. Also let's assume no-one counter-claims Fighter.

Let's say I claim Fighter.

Town : Doesn't know if I'm Scum Fighter or Town Fighter

Scum: Knows I'm not Scum Fighter. Also knows I'm not something like Battleship or Evesdrop; which I imagine would be the highest priority for scum to kill.

North Korea - Doesn't care about my alignment

So who is this information more valuable to? The answer is Scum.

...what the hell is this guys scum meta i need to know

Bardiche

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #222 on: June 01, 2020, 01:38:11 PM »
@Nucleus
I don't know what to tell you other than it's water under the bridge. I want you lynched entirely and fully because I believe you are not aligned with the town. We can put the Dormio bullying allegation behind us; I apologise for upsetting you, I honestly read it as "Let's lynch Dormio because he's Dormio", which if you're advocating D1 lynches on people because of meta, just feels like a really strawberriesty thing to do.

Imagine a world where Goliath is the greatest scum player ever, and it is impossible to discern Town!Goliath from Scum!Goliath. Because of this reasons, Town always lynches him Day 1 in every game he signs up to. Why the hell would Goliath bother signing up again, if he's getting lynched for being who he is?

If you're advocating a lynch because Goliath always posts 5 times a day as Town but only once per day as scum, and he's posting once a day now, then sure. But please let's avoid lynching people before they have done anything simply because you believe removing them from the game is "optimal".

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #223 on: June 01, 2020, 01:55:08 PM »
I am going to sleep off the negative vibes, but in summary, that's a heavy misrepresentation.

I was just personally triggered at the word 'bully', since its taken rather seriously in my life.

But based on the heat Bardiche has dished out and Dormio has also in the past, I don't think this is a 'real' emotional rouse from Bardiche, who has played for more than 7 years on and off.

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #224 on: June 01, 2020, 02:01:50 PM »
Addendum, I do not think that was a good way to phrase things, because ambiguity and misinterpretation on my case which I drafted is my responsibility.

Bardiche, I am casing Dormio, still am, and zwerdijib based on the broader meta implications and in-game reactions which unfold.

I am not assuring my reads which are intuitive are correct. I am not a very intuitive person, actually, and I base my case around what is available.

The guide told me this is the way to play town, be firm, don't let the longer spats disperse my focus, don't get emotional. Most importantly, dish onto others what I would dish upon myself.

I try to win and have fun, that's it.

Bardiche

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #225 on: June 01, 2020, 02:16:53 PM »
But based on the heat Bardiche has dished out and Dormio has also in the past, I don't think this is a 'real' emotional rouse from Bardiche, who has played for more than 7 years on and off.


What does this even mean

Daiya

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #226 on: June 01, 2020, 04:29:53 PM »
well, no

i srd him more because
which is more a meta read so i understand *why* youd be somewhat lost here
Ah. A meta read. That's interesting. Because it's not like I've ever "played passively" and flipped town, right? Additionally, you've got about the same sample size for me as you do for some other "passive" players. See: Yaer, Meow, Celery. What are they doing that I'm not? And what's so different about my gameplay now that worries you, if it could even be called passive in this gamestate? You also never mentioned your concerns about it prior. I'm getting the impression that you're making this strawberries up as you go.

Daiya

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #227 on: June 01, 2020, 04:41:48 PM »
Can you elaborate? Has Nucleus done something like this before as scum?
yis, he came in at gamestart claiming some wild role and requesting that everyone reveal their genders so that he could, use it optimally, for the town's sake. this eventually led to a staged (improved?) counterclaim with him and his scumbuddy celery in which i sided with nucleus (gave him the insanity pass) and felt very silly afterwards

tl;dr he likes gambits and everything confusing

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #228 on: June 01, 2020, 04:49:48 PM »
I'm not sure what to do here, other people seem to have the zwerdjib angle covered, and while it's really easy to just poke Nucleus and have weird seemingly incriminating words come out I'm not sure how much that's worth doing before it just becomes redundant noise.

Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words.

Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

And what do people in general think about how sure Nucleus seems to be that Raikaria is town, do you think that means anything?

raikaria

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #229 on: June 01, 2020, 05:16:05 PM »
...what the hell is this guys scum meta i need to know

My scum meta is I don't roll scum unless it's Anonmafia where I get to ham it up.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Daiya

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #230 on: June 01, 2020, 05:18:31 PM »
ah i'd also like to reiterate that the submarine is confirmed to be itg if serela's words are to be trusted. should they claim?

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #231 on: June 01, 2020, 05:22:10 PM »
Ah. A meta read. That's interesting. Because it's not like I've ever "played passively" and flipped town, right? Additionally, you've got about the same sample size for me as you do for some other "passive" players. See: Yaer, Meow, Celery. What are they doing that I'm not? And what's so different about my gameplay now that worries you, if it could even be called passive in this gamestate? You also never mentioned your concerns about it prior. I'm getting the impression that you're making this strawberries up as you go.

daiya

i want to believe you scumread me for this

but

this reads more as "you hurt my pride" than "i think youre scum"

like you havent been trying to move the game forward. youre just repeating what youve said before. you made a decent link between nucleus and his previous games, but thats all. youre kind of frozen.

insulting your pride appears to be the best way to get you to do things

- cut by asking for a submarine claim. dont think it changes anything

meow56

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #232 on: June 01, 2020, 07:58:36 PM »
Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

I think zwerdjib is a town lean for me. Methinks that if scum!zwerdjib had specifically planned to make town massclaim then they would've asked for it immediately instead of waiting.

By the way, has anyone seen beru? They haven't spoken since DEFCON 5.

Serela

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #233 on: June 01, 2020, 08:18:57 PM »
literally prod dodging for a little while here, i worked night shift and someone called the police 4 times (aaghghghghhh) and now that I'm awake after 6 hours of low quality midday sleep I'm supposed to help my uncle do his taxes x_____x will mafia later tonight

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #234 on: June 01, 2020, 08:47:13 PM »
also if you think this is an issue in hypocrisy you should probably think about what youre doing right now
wat?
I think that you tried to push for a scummy thing whilst trying to pass it off as a winning town strat and are therefore scum.
kthxbai.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #235 on: June 01, 2020, 09:48:10 PM »
wait oh my god its fire trucking june

what have i been doing with my life

wat?
I think that you tried to push for a scummy thing whilst trying to pass it off as a winning town strat and are therefore scum.
kthxbai.

youre tunneling

enough said

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #236 on: June 01, 2020, 10:27:10 PM »
Okay. And?

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #237 on: June 01, 2020, 10:31:12 PM »
Like, basically, I think you tried to push for a strat that benefits scum and therefore are scum. I also dislike how you generated a townread off raikaria explaining basic game theory.
I also think that NuclearWaffles is probably the ITP SK but there are enough votes there already.

Next caller.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #238 on: June 01, 2020, 10:33:37 PM »
Okay. And?

its an actively anti-town behavior and its the only behavior youve displayed

im beginning to see a pattern here

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #239 on: June 01, 2020, 10:55:54 PM »
Coolio.
Got anything to add other than an OMGUS?