Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

On my phone but why are you people so insistent on outing your own roles?

[Serela]

Well, that latest form doesn't seem so bad; they're confirming role X is in the game, but not them. They could still be literally any role themselves, and knowing X role is on someone can be beneficial to town in future claiming situations but doesn't really benefit scum that much. I think Raikaria has been looking fairly good overall and that coming up with that as an idea (rather than me just -happening- to do it) helps reinforce my town read on them.

The votes on me are fair, my last post(s) are definitely devoid of any real content lmao. I'd sort of like to join the beru wagon but I know I'm almost as guilty as they are of not really being able to find much to talk about so I can kind of sympathize? OK that sounded better in my head, actually typing it out almost makes me want to vote myself ZZZZZZZZZ Still tho', they're definitely doing even less than me.

I'm still content with where my vote is, but beru is currently like my runner-up vote target? When is deadline again?? In about two days, ok :T

[beru]

raik it was like. my first and second post of the game.

a plan that results in the death of all players is a plan in which the ITP wins. he knew this and he proposed it anyway. he wasn't surprised by the general response to it

[Bardiche]

Serela's admission that he doesn't care what's going on runs counter to his usual stance as Town (which is to care a whole lot), and combined with vacuous ramblings, I'm fairly happy with just staring at my pulchritudinous vote right now.

Others:
Nucleus - Proposing 3P-oriented action plan, immediately folding under the tiniest bit of pressure, overall giving off the same vibes as previous game re: behaviour that's impossible to rhyme as Townie but not being outright scummy.

Daiya - I don't like anyone buddying up to me by slight town reading me for a post in the early early game. I've done strawberries since, how does that weigh up to being slightly town for commenting on zwerdjib's early early game?

Zwerdjib - Generates many posts, but for all that, there isn't actually a whole lot of different stuff in them. Very limited scope of interactions despite volume.

[NucleusWaffles]

Bardiche's intent and beru's intent at rekindling discussion reads town to me.

Raikaria's respond at how he can be evil reads null but not scum-ish.

Again, agree with Bardiche's read that Serela and zwerdijib reads scummish for the aforementioned reasons.

Overall, not happy with how I caused some toxicity, but I like the lynch on zwerdijib, just not exactly how aggressive Dormio seems to be pushing it.

Why is Dormio linking posts instead of using walls to response? The pop-ups are difficult to read. And I am paranoid about Dormio, in full honesty. I don't know what social magic he used last game to win the 3P with Zakeri, nor what social magic he used to get ActionDan lynched, but I think just the thought of being in LyLo with a malignant Dormio is horrifying.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I really dislike how so many people have yet to post anything significant. Or just anything at all.
The Chihiro slot is a void right now, NuclearWaffles is either going to be lynched or nuked at the soonest opportunity, and Yaersulf/Daiya/meow56/AbuHumaid/beru basically don't exist.
Selery is posting but being extremely useless, zwerdjib I dislike due to reasons that I've iterated plenty of times I feel, and raikaria/Bardiche are shining beacons of sanity in these dark times.

What I'm basically trying to say is that I hate mafia.

[NekoNekoRex]

Effective immediately

Zoomy Tsugumi replaces Chihiro

[NekoNekoRex]

DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Delta

zwerdjib (3) - Dormio, NucleusWaffles, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
NucleusWaffles (1) - Serela
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Beru (1) - Yaersulf
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumii (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Zoomy Tsugumi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

[NucleusWaffles]

##Unvote

I have bad vibes on where this lynch is going. Let me organise my thoughts a bit.

[NucleusWaffles]

Alright.

The pages 4-8 are mostly zwerdijib vs Dormio. For accusing zwerdijib for little content, Dormio himself seems perfectly happy to add fuel to the fire.

I have to admit, since the Bardiche spat I had I was a bit demotivated. But I think my thought processes are a bit clearer and I like to appreciate the MS-esque 5-day deadline mechanism.

Currently, I want to townread Bardiche, Serela, raikaria. They did nice content without making things too difficult to read for the audience, I would like to think that comes from a town-motivated place.

I still have a strong FoS on Dormio, zwerdijib, Yaersulf. I am not sure what to make of Chihiro/ZoomyTsugumi slot because we had a very similar lurk -> replace slot last game with banana spritzee who was town, and I am wiling to bite the bullet for trusting sub-out etiquitte if this slot is scum.

That means I townclear Chihiro/ZoomyTsugumi for subbing out, which leaves the last possible scum a pick between beru/Abu, both of whom while I don't agree with Dormio for having 'posted nothing', I don't think its possible for scum to psychologically have completely coherent and coordinated responses.

Basically, I would assign a 2:1 ratio to scum for active/lurk or lurk/active, and the :1 to the SK who is an unpredictable opportunist.

But based on the number of silos, I am pretty confident the SK is not dictating the flow of the game.

I just don't like how Serela/Raikaria is outing information on the Submarine/Fighter or implying so, as town we have no way of confirming a draft anyhow, and unless we decide to lynch to claimed PR (which is objectively a poor town play to weaken the power) this is anti-town to claim or even discuss the option to roleclaim.

[NucleusWaffles]

Also, I dont think we need to role claim to exclude what roles are in the game.

If this town is smart enough to know all draft silo is a terrible idea, then this town is smart enough to understand the relative power of roles.

That was the main idea behind the proposal, to gauge the degree of role-awareness in this town.

I won't do more tinfoil spinning, because we all place different values on the roles. But personally, I find information roles like Fighter/Espionage/Radar icing because I am not charming enough to lynch people even off a confirmed guilty.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Nyello, haven't played Mafia in about 6 years so apologies if I'm rusty on terminology and stuff.

I've been spectating this game (and the other ones played here since the reboot) and so I've got a few thoughts.

Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

@Serela: Do you think Dormio vs Zeep is Town/Town? You had a lot of game theory opinion but didn't really delve much into how you feel about either player.

@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

@Abu: I understand you're sheeping Dormio with the Zeep case, but do you have any suspicions of your own that you're examining right now?


I think that's everything so far?

CUT BY NUCLEUS: Ok I feel a little better about your posting style right now, keep this up and we can have some dialogue

[NucleusWaffles]

Re Zoom: I actually have a different idea on lurking, I don't mind lurkers personally as town as long as they have some form of trackable record.

Lurkers also provide less to read, although I admit for people like meow (whom I forgot existed)/beru/Abu are really not asserting their presence much.

The online times/guest tracking function is wonderful because I can keep a monitor on whose who and choosing anoymity rather than viewing publicly, and that gives me a personally pretty good pulse on the playstyle of which players.

I am pretty much using that plus guess to decide if the lurkers are to lynch, but I think zwerdijib is a good lynch in terms of, well, decluttering.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I think lurking is an inherently anti-town action especially when people are basically coming in to prod dodge and not further the game state in any meaningful way.
I understand cutting down on overall fluff but that can also be achieved by town consolidating posts where possible and keeping things concise.
I mean theoretically the 4 people I listed could contain the entire scumteam and the third party but it's statistically unlikely and too convenient, I'm sure at least one or two are town and just need to be doing a lot better.

You find out more about people's alignments the more they post and if a proper read could be had on any of them it's one step closer to solving the game. It should be wholly unacceptable to just lurk the whole time.

[NucleusWaffles]

I agree lurking is anti-town, but I do not think enforcing anti-lurk policy is pro-town.

I read and regurgitate things a lot. I am less good at picking out threads in a single game, but I think that angle based on analysing game wins/lost and player meta makes me suggest some pretty 'clinically insane' ideas.

I think enforcing anti-lurk is impossible in the meta here.

If our common goal is to win for town, which it is, then we need to be pragmatic and consider the varied interests/pressure/response for each player.

Like, I do not think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking is a good thing.
However, I do think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking as scum is a good thing.
Then, I do think lynching lurkers, with a history of lurking as scum, but is otherwise very active as town, is a very good thing.

I think that's the gist of how meta-cases are formed, and why my scumbuddy last game (Serela) folded quite optimally under the pressure from sb, a player who knew his meta very well.

I don't think I am doing the meta-casing quite right, since Bardiche did call me out on bullying which I became quite allergic to, probably subconcious guilt because I too myself am uncertain of Dormio's alignment.

But anyway, amongst the lurkers meow/Abu/beru this discussion is not helpful to lead to further lynches.

Its like the town massclaim discussion, it was fine when we had 3 days to deadline, now we have less than 1.5 days.

We should focus on the players who have had activity, and start there.

[NucleusWaffles]

Fortunately or unfortunately, Zoomy you appear to be filling in some really big shoes, can I hopefully ask you to stretch yourself and also ask some probing questions for the actives?

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

No in this meta it really doesn't seem possible I'll agree there.

However, this does not mean said lurkers are absolved from prodding and being asked things by the actually active players.

But okay, if you think you want to go off lurk meta instead, give me a rundown of who you think out of Yaer/Meow/Abu isn't like their past game self, activity-wise, if any.

Going off who has already been active is hard when abotu 2/3rds of the game honestly have not done thaaat much in the grand scheme of things. We limit the pool to you, Zeep, Dormio, Daiya and Raikaria (at least imo). I'm not even confident at all in lynching within this pool at the moment, since I'm reading you a lot better since I subbed in and have had this dialogue with you.

Serela does kind of sit in a grey middle area of "said a lot but also not a lot at all" because they've had a lot of posts during the Dormio V Zeep thing which amounted to basically just game theory with little push for any sort of reads. I know they want you lynched and would consolidate on Beru but otherwise not much has been actually divulged there. Would be okay to lynch Serela also as a result of this if needs be.

But sure, I can ask more questions for the actives, I might reread before doing so though just to get an even better grasp on how things are panning out and what needs to be asked.

[NucleusWaffles]

I scumread Yaer for being very liberal with vote swaps in Ys Mafia, but now has revised that history to 'voteparking on me' which seems to allude to PX's strategy in scumbussing me last game.

Yaer truly did votepark on me all day, until the wagon is now mostly dispersed, I think that's a hard scumread from me.

Meow was playing his first game here and lynched D1, both for tactfulness and for game experience I think we can let Meow pass without lynching him D1 again.

Abu is weird, I don't exactly town-lean on him, I lean-SK on Abu because that seems the closest to supporting my pro-SK plan without involving himself, I recall well Abu asked if we 'lynch Waffles for offering a bad plan' after said plan was executed, but not really much protest before the plan could be prevented.

I lean SK-ish on Abu and Dormio, for reasons I already discussed.

[AbuHumaid]

I'm here to avoid a prod. I'll catch up in a bit.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

[AbuHumaid]

read the thread

it wins games i promise you

I did, actually, this response strikes me as if you're trying to dodge my questions.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Zwerdjib - Generates many posts, but for all that, there isn't actually a whole lot of different stuff in them. Very limited scope of interactions despite volume.

I'd like for you to expand on this line of thought if possible? What interactions are you noticing and how are they framed(e.g positive or negative)? I think this is a summary that can be leveraged at a few people right now.

[zwerdjib]

I did, actually, this response strikes me as if you're trying to dodge my questions.

no ive answered any question youve asked within the thread

just read

[zwerdjib]

hello there zoomy whose alt is this

i swear i should recognize this but mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I'm not sure why of all people Daiya is appealing to be for information on other players. It does seem somewhat like a Serela thing to do however, it's... well... wafflely. It almost seems like something Serela intended almost by accident.

-game theory snip-

Also; combining with my curiosity as to why Daiya is reffering to me about Serela... his beef with yaer could basically be applied to me. Yet not only am I not given as a scumread, but if Daiya is asking me specifically for meta info instead of Dormio or some other long-term player, that suggests Daiya trusts me?

I find this a little odd. Especially with how much Daiya is pushing 'gamesolving'. Part of gamesolving is making a case to convince everyone else you've solved the game.

Also I know I said I'd vote but the worst thing I've seen so far is Zeep's massclaim suggestion which I still see as misguided town rather than scum.

I mean if I had to vote I'd vote for Zeep due to that... but I don't think it's worth voting andI actually think such a vote considering MotK D1 habits would do more harm than good.

These two posts next to each other feel really conflicting, I'm doubting the conviction behind sussing out Daiya. Feels like saying words and throwing suspicion for the sake of it.
@Raikaria: Can you give some semblance of a reads list right now? Small blurbs as to why at least are preferred.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

hello there zoomy whose alt is this

i swear i should recognize this but mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hi, I'm nobody's alt uwu
We've never met but it's nice to make your acquaintance, do you have any thoughts on anything I've said? Would be open to a dialogue, lets suss things out.

[zwerdjib]

Hi, I'm nobody's alt uwu
We've never met but it's nice to make your acquaintance, do you have any thoughts on anything I've said? Would be open to a dialogue, lets suss things out.

We've never met

No

do you have any thoughts on anything I've said?

later

[Daiya]

You said zeep, though

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I read the other games on here and just picked up saying the nickname, much nicer than zwerdijib tbh

[AbuHumaid]

I have a feeling that Zoomy is smartbomb.