Author Topic: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Game Over!)  (Read 819363 times)

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Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #900 on: April 18, 2020, 06:52:41 PM »
Disquieted and BBM are setting up for pushing Daiya D2 at ED1 in #729/730.

god i wish, bbm actively wound his daiya push back once d2 began and smartbomb is still voting nnr for some reason

i guess i can't fault smartbomb since apparently his schedule is to sleep for 23 hours and then crawl online to hiss at people for 1 hour like a cryptid

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #901 on: April 18, 2020, 06:55:29 PM »
haha i forgot to roast bbm for this post

if polaris is scum my scumdar is very badly busted and I should probably quit mafia forever. of course I should probably quit mafia forever regardless

clearly this means if i'm town you have to keep playing mafia for the rest of your life, right? :) haha no takebacks

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #902 on: April 18, 2020, 07:09:27 PM »
prod dodge ily conq <3

I promise I'll read up and post more expect within like 2 hours

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #903 on: April 18, 2020, 07:10:25 PM »
OH MY GOD YOU'RE REAL

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #904 on: April 18, 2020, 07:15:58 PM »
OH MY GOD YOU'RE REAL
yes <3

btw can someone tell me how to vote

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #905 on: April 18, 2020, 07:20:03 PM »
i........... uh............... i think if you read up you'll be able to understand how voting works

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #906 on: April 18, 2020, 07:20:45 PM »
##Vote: Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #907 on: April 18, 2020, 07:21:24 PM »
##Vote: Polaris

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #908 on: April 18, 2020, 07:22:35 PM »
that's not how voting works :'(

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #909 on: April 18, 2020, 07:23:13 PM »
oh that did work nice

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #910 on: April 18, 2020, 07:23:22 PM »
(just kidding you did it correctly, i just thought it would be funny if i pretended like voting me was wrong)

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #911 on: April 18, 2020, 07:25:35 PM »
(just kidding you did it correctly, i just thought it would be funny if i pretended like voting me was wrong)
voting you seems right, in this case :^

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #912 on: April 18, 2020, 07:26:10 PM »
TOM

PLEASE BEGIN CREATING OPINIONS OF PLAYERS.
PLEASE READ THE GAME

THE GRAPHS ARE NOT HELPING
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

BigBangMeteor

  • The Professor
Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #913 on: April 18, 2020, 07:31:11 PM »
ok this is sort of where i'm at on everyone right now.

strong townreads: fabloo, PX, polaris, NNR

Honestly I just can't see myself voting for polaris without some kind of role results or unless it's like, 3p lylo with me, him, and a mason left or something. his way of approaching the game has generally been good and even his non-content posts have a townie vibe to them.

if Fabloo/PX are survivor lovers I'm ok for blaming the loss on bad game design. 2p survivor lovers in a 15p game means that we're essentially in LYLO tomorrow and fire truck that.

I think serela summarized my feelings on NNR pretty well. i probably don't townread him quite as strongly as polaris but I don't want to have 10 tiers and it's close enough. also the stronger i townread him the more likely it is that he will be nightkilled, which is a plus because the gigantic all caps posts are annoying.

people not playing particularly well but who have done something I think is specifically townie: yaersulf, daiya, tom, nucleus

honestly my reads here are weakening a little because in the case of tom especially, the townie things they've done have been pretty long ago. after an ed1 where he was really active and his non-content came in a manner that seemed too hostile to be newbscum (sort of like Fabloo) he's sort of receded into coasting more and having a playstyle that I associate more with newbscum. the charts and stuff are nice and the effort is good, but content like that is relatively easy for scum to fake because it's factual and doesn't require faking a townie mindset. reading new players is Hard

I'm also weakening a bit on yaersulf but I still think d1 vanilla claims from people about to be lynched are town 90% of the time. scum just doesn't have an incentive to claim vanilla there, especially in a medium-sized game. odds are that whatever power role you make up won't be present in the game, and if it is, you force a counter-claim and then you have a new person to hook/kill. Also, something that's relatively easy to fake but only if he has a smart scumbuddy to tell him to do it, is him asking why PX/Fabloo weren't killed on N1.

I've spoken about daiya today. I will say that if yaersulf does flip scum, I would then strongly suspect daiya because the reason for townreading them is linked to yaersulf also being town.

also spoken about nucleus today. after thinking about it and reading their posts I put them back in this tier. there just isn't really anything specifically scummy they've done other than kind of coast a bunch.

you might notice that everyone in this tier is new. if i'm wrong on someone here it's probably either tom or nucleus.

gut townreads who have not done anything specifically townie: Serela

just spoke about this

lol inactive: Banana

imo Dormio should cajole a Banana who is more Serious to sub in here. if this slot doesn't start producing today, the vig should shoot them tonight. i really don't want to use a lynch on this slot given the extreme lack of interactions but honestly based on how few people I suspect I think there's a very strong chance this slot is scum. if this slot doesn't start producing and isn't vigged we should probably assume there either isn't a vig or the vig isn't listening to me (you fire trucker) and we should strongly consider lynching them tomorrow to get them out of the game. either that or dormio should modkill them for inactivity given that's in the rules (though inactivity modkills suck)

slight scumreads: raikaria, smartbomb

yeah I don't have any strong scumreads deal with it. also I got cut by raikaria voting me which I will address in a later post to prevent this post from being the Longest Post Ever

honestly a large part of this is just what's left over. one nice thing is that I think this works as a buddy pairing since I think smartbomb hasn't said much about raikaria and raikaria. raikaria has been vaguely suspicious of smartbomb but then also chainsaw defending him by attacking serela's vote on him?

I spoke about smartbomb recently and don't have anything more to add atm.

i've also analyzed raikaria's posts before the recent wall (whole post dedicated to that after this) something that pings me with raikaria is how many people he finds suspicious or not playing well? he says he finds almost everyone null to worse. that's a) obviously wrong, b) very different from how I'm reading people c) not exactly scummy but a trait scum often have because they want to leave as many people open for mislynches as possible.

also, despite him finding half the game suspicious he pretty much just votes newbs and then me. this case sure looks like "make sure BBM remains a viable lynch candidate" once NNR stopped actively suspecting me. i know this sounds arrogant of me (and tbh it is).

feeling about as good about this as i do about anything ##Vote: Raikaria THUNDERDOME LET'S GO BABY

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #914 on: April 18, 2020, 07:33:01 PM »
haha i forgot to roast bbm for this post

clearly this means if i'm town you have to keep playing mafia for the rest of your life, right? :) haha no takebacks



cut by bbm wtf actually wow, this is an interesting turn of events

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #915 on: April 18, 2020, 07:37:44 PM »
Can I just point out that I have a very notable history of avoiding giving out my townreads and often chastise people for doing so.

And let's be entirely fair; half the game hasn't even done too much to make a read on.

I guess I should specify aside from BBM my scumreads are Tom, Yaersulf and to a lesser extent Smartbomb [Which is why I'm voting BBM over him].

Also while the accusation that I have 'only voted newbies' is a fair one, there's also newbies I haven't voted. I never voted Meow or Waffles; and I'd say Fabloo [Played 1 day phase] counts as a newbie too. It's not like I'm relentlessly hunting down newbie's heads.

And you're no newbie.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #916 on: April 18, 2020, 07:37:50 PM »
PSA FOR NEWBIES

"SCUMHUNTING"

TRY TO LYNCH PLAYERS THAT SEEM DISHONEST.

IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #917 on: April 18, 2020, 07:43:09 PM »
PSA FOR NEWBIES

"SCUMHUNTING"

TRY TO LYNCH PLAYERS THAT SEEM DISHONEST.

IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE


This.

I don't care if you even vote me if you have legitimate reasons that you actually explain. I don't hold grudges.

I'd rather you are at least trying to scumhunt than... uh... not.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #918 on: April 18, 2020, 07:48:35 PM »
i don't remember who said this but i remember reading this and i agree with it: i think giving out townreads is fine because that's just more opinions that scum have to make up, and it leaves a paper trail that could corner their mislynch options as the game progresses. it's also a great tool for process of elimination and (this might just be me) i see it as an indirect way to manipulate the scum NK as town (but maybe i just like having predictable NKs)

NNR would you lynch BBM with raikaria? i remember you not liking him before but give us an update

raikaria do you still think i'm town? you already said i was in d1 so right now is pretty much the only time i'll allow you to take it back. after that, no takebacks >:(

BigBangMeteor

  • The Professor
Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #919 on: April 18, 2020, 07:48:57 PM »
well I did separate myself out from newbie

want to state a couple things separately from my post responding to your vote on me because they're mostly theory

i think the idea to not post your townreads is outdated and wrong. yes, it slightly helps mafia know who to kill. but realistically unless they're dumb they can generally feel out who's town anyways by way of who's not being cased or who's being cased the least. however, if scum have to state their townreads it becomes harder for them to flip on those townreads later and push mislynches. it's not impossible but it requires scum to give good reasons for doing so. this makes it much harder for them to opportunistically wagon onto people. and flipping from a townread to a scumread at the same time as general opinion shifts a bit is imo one of the scummier things you can do (i say as i flip smartbomb from town to scum)

also, yes, you shouldn't give newbies passes. but newbies learn just from playing more and seeing for themselves the different ways in which scum and town act vs being mislynched for making mistakes. you can poke/prod/question them without just voting them for not playing well. that's why i keep pushing tom and asking him a bunch of questions about what the point of the charts was for example, and what he's trying to glean from making them, even though I think he's probably not scum. if you just vote newbs for not playing well you're a) probably going to be wrong b) reduce their exposure to lategame situations and c) probably going to dissuade them from playing more and getting better.

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #920 on: April 18, 2020, 07:53:57 PM »
If you give newbies that are playing badly free passes, and write off newbies as scum because they are newbies; that only helps scum.

We write them off as lynches, and if they're scum and not just playing badly, they get a free pass.

If they're town, and we're mislynching players who contribute more, we're weakening town. Scum won't kill the newbies who are hurting town either. So we're far more likly to lose in lategame as well.

Newbies should be treated the exact same way as anyone else. Bad and scummy play by newbies should be treated the same as bad and scummy play from anyone else.

Treating them any other way is actively anti-town. It inherently weakens town to give players who are playing scummy and badly free passes.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #921 on: April 18, 2020, 07:55:39 PM »
Also it's not like newbies can't learn from observation, graveyard discussion, and such.

We learn from our mistakes. Everyone should be judged equally. I would judge a newbie's scummy play as harshly as anyone else's scummy play, and in my opinion it only hurts towns to do anything else.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #922 on: April 18, 2020, 07:59:17 PM »
Also this is why being against lynching lurkers in early days when there's little~nothing else to go on is generally anti-town as well. A lurker isn't contributeing to town, and therefor isn't a target for the scum kill.

Worst-case scenario in a lurker lynch is we remove deadwood rather than an active townie. Best-case is we hit lurking scum trying to avoid the searchlight.

Priority #1 for Town is lynching scum.

Priority #2 for Town is minimising the damage a mislynch does to town.

Giving newbies a free pass for bad and scummy play inherently goes against both priorities; which is why I say that attitude is anti-town.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

BigBangMeteor

  • The Professor
Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #923 on: April 18, 2020, 08:06:33 PM »
but bad play is not inherently scummy play. it's extremely extremely wrong (imo) to keep saying "bad and scummy play" when the correlation between "bad play" and "scummy play" is not anywhere near as strong as you're making it out to be. and newbs are much more likely to play badly than experienced players (a hopefully non-controversial statement) regardless of their alignment. if you don't make that distinction, you're just going to be wrong.

the truth is, all of fabloo/daiya/tom/nucleus/yaersulf are not playing well, and are playing worse than you and smartbomb. i could lynch every single one of them (except fabloo cuz claim) and there's like a 95% chance I would lose the game.

in addition to that, not every mod does this (although I definitely do) but many mods are less likely to make new players scum because it's hard to be scum without having been town a couple times. in a game like this where half hte playerlist is new it's almost impossible for there to not be at least one newbscum, but it's generally a fair assumption that the scum will be (maybe only slightly) disproportionately distributed towards the more experienced players.

i kinda don't want to just talk about theory anymore but I suppose I can at least understand your mindset more on this.

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #924 on: April 18, 2020, 08:08:25 PM »
Unvote
Vote Disquieted

sets alarm to post in one hour

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #925 on: April 18, 2020, 08:10:43 PM »
ok, i'm going to do this

##Unvote
##Vote: Disquieted aka smartbomb


we are all mentioning smartbomb but it feels like everyone is dancing around the topic of actually lynching him (except for nnr, obviously)
i'm making smartbomb into an actual wagon
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF CUT BY ZEENANA NO THIS POST WAS GOING TO BE SO COOL

Polaris

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #926 on: April 18, 2020, 08:11:37 PM »
ok i think zeenana might be town

##Unvote
##Vote: Daiya


do people still even care about daiya, or will i have to go back to lynching serela

BigBangMeteor

  • The Professor
Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #927 on: April 18, 2020, 08:16:51 PM »
you know what this is a very quick flip but ##Unvote, ##Vote: Smartbomb

I don't agree with Raikaria's logic on new players but it's helped me get into his mindset before. also I was like 60/40 on Raikaria vs Smartbomb and I think I somewhat OMGUSed raikaria. I still think he's more likely to be scum than not but I need to think about it with a little bit of distance. I'm going to respond to Raikaria's vote on me but I've been reading/posting for like 3 hours now and need to take a bit of a break. i'll be back later in the day (though I imagine Raikaria will be asleep prolly rip)

I was going to do this before getting cut by Polaris I swear ;_;.

BigBangMeteor

  • The Professor
Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day Two)
« Reply #928 on: April 18, 2020, 08:19:19 PM »
me: I need to take a break
also me: wait but just one more post on mafia theory

I think putting down your townreads also just helps town. I guess some people like keeping notes outside of the thread and that's fine too but in a long game it's very easy to forget that you were townreading someone on day 1 by the time day 4 rolls around and there have been 50 more pages of posts.

polaris icr what did you think of my reason for finding daiya town?

Conqueror

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day 2)
« Reply #929 on: April 18, 2020, 08:21:51 PM »
Votecount
Disquieted (4): NekoNekoRex, Serela, banana spritzee, BigBangMeteor
Serela (1): Tom
NekoNekoRex (1): Disquieted
NucleusWaffles (1): Yaersulf
BigBangMeteor (1): raikaria
Daiya (1): Polaris
Polaris (1): Daiya
banana spritzee (0):
Tom (0):
Fabloo (0):
raikaria (0):
Yaersulf (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 10 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Fabloo, NucleusWaffles, PX

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]