Author Topic: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Game Over!)  (Read 819426 times)

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NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #210 on: April 15, 2020, 07:25:21 AM »
I did!

I read the past games thoroughly, or maybe not that thorough, but I realise that despite so many persons being online now too much activity is not necessarily good.

In fact, based on my reread of the old games and quicktopics most players can't be bothered to read too many pages of text.

So um, basically I want to talk to you directly. About your reads and things.

cut again

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #211 on: April 15, 2020, 07:28:32 AM »
Because I think we are caught in a funny situation now;

Our last game was too long on D1, but it was effective in terms of winning that game.

However, the commitment is scaring people off playing the next game, as shown by how much longer the recruitment for this game took.

But for some people like myself, the appeal of this kind of game is exactly because it is not like Discord or Reddit or 4chan, the kind of forum-ish, 2000-esque aesthetic that takes time to read.

Basically, I want to talk to the experienced old people about how they feel they are getting a hang on the reads and games. Because clearly Bardiche you played many years ago, and you was a better player than a mod, so I want to know what you think of things now.

Bardiche

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #212 on: April 15, 2020, 07:31:56 AM »
... My thoughts are I'd like you to not insult and compliment me at the same time twice in a row, and that I've touched on everything I think is important in my previous post. I try not to talk about everything because I want people to actually read my posts, y'know.

As an aside I don't get where the "Bard is a good player" fantasy comes from because I am almost always at risk of being lynched, in fact, I expire more from being (mis)lynched than being NK'd.

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #213 on: April 15, 2020, 07:37:34 AM »
Sorry for being cheeky, I was really intrigued about the 'Happily Ever After' game I couldn't help but mention it.

I honestly enjoy being here with you, its like playing with a legendary figure or something. In any case, it makes me happy.


However, that being said Bardiche you are a very valid wagon on D1, so why should we not lynch you?

At least, maybe we can have some fun chatting about other wagons, then an in-depth explanation would convince us to switch and lynch the lurkers?


Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #214 on: April 15, 2020, 07:38:50 AM »
Votecount
Bardiche (4): Tom, Yaersulf, NekoNekoRex, BigBangMeteor
Fabloo (3): Polaris, Serela, NucleusWaffles
raikaria (1): raikaria
Tom (1): Bardiche
Disquieted (1): PX
Polaris (1): Disquieted
PX (0):
Daiya (0):
NucleusWaffles (0):
zwerdjib (0):
meow56 (0):
Serela (0):
Yaersulf (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch!
Not voting: zwerdjib, Fabloo, Daiya, meow56

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #215 on: April 15, 2020, 07:41:06 AM »
well it looks like I have 100 more posts
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Tom

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #216 on: April 15, 2020, 07:45:37 AM »
I'd still like to no lynch the first day, I'm only voting you because you voted for me.

Who's scummy?  Well you since you've nitpicked through my posts for single phrases I didn't give much thought into writing like "instead of going after better targets."  These are actions fitting of someone desperate to drive the blame away from themselves and are willing to throw newer players under the bus to do so.

Disquieted raised an eyebrow because they haven't posted much and only initiated the conversation with something along the lines of "I am chewing" and were likely to leave it at that if no one pressed them further.  Nothing personal against them, just that out of context post seemed very much like an attempt to reset the prod timer.

Polaris and Fabloo are town in my opinion, they're driving the investigation and generally willing to put themselves out there, something mafia wouldn't do as the more they post the more quotable evidence they leave for later to be recalled upon.
I'll be off for today, happy scumhunting~

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #217 on: April 15, 2020, 07:55:58 AM »
I really recommend not relying on Mafiascum game theory for your play / thoughts.

I also will insist that we are lynching today. Lynching is the town's factional kill and wasting it gives the scum basically a free kill.

They also have two week long game days compared to our three, and we all know how that pans out...

Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #218 on: April 15, 2020, 08:03:40 AM »
I really recommend not relying on Mafiascum game theory for your play / thoughts.

I also will insist that we are lynching today. Lynching is the town's factional kill and wasting it gives the scum basically a free kill.

They also have two week long game days compared to our three, and we all know how that pans out...



I agree with this chart, not seeing updates when I check in is demotivating.
Especially when everyone else are online.

Bardiche

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #219 on: April 15, 2020, 08:05:50 AM »
Okay, so lemme get this straight. You say there are two reasons you vote me:

1) I lied about my role PM.

2) I went after you instead of better targets.

And now you're complaining I "nitpick" for pressing you on that second point? Is this correct? And you "didn't give much thought to it" despite it being 50% of your case on me?

And...

Quote
generally willing to put themselves out there, something mafia wouldn't do as the more they post the more quotable evidence they leave for later to be recalled upon.

You mean I haven't put myself out there despite raising a ruckus?

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #220 on: April 15, 2020, 08:09:06 AM »
Bard is getting pretty defensive and I'm not sure how I should judge that? Especially since he seems to be getting way more pissed off then needed at a newbie calling him smug.

I don't agree with his interpretation of my vote either. The post seemed to be filled with un-serious fluff to hide the serious content, but now his content is just... as above. It doesn't feel genuine to me.

I still have kind of bad gut on Fabloo, for Gut Reasons, but it's hard to say for sure since my only experience was in the the midgame part of the last game.

Meow stands out as someone who hasn't put out much content. I'd say the same with Yaer but he has kind of put out a few effort posts.

There's still no PX, but it's hard to say anything about him since I'm blatantly biased.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #221 on: April 15, 2020, 08:12:13 AM »
I'm going to feel the crippling weight of irony on my back when I say this but make sure to keep things nice, guys
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #222 on: April 15, 2020, 08:15:32 AM »
Bard is getting pretty defensive and I'm not sure how I should judge that? Especially since he seems to be getting way more pissed off then needed at a newbie calling him smug.

I don't agree with his interpretation of my vote either. The post seemed to be filled with un-serious fluff to hide the serious content, but now his content is just... as above. It doesn't feel genuine to me.

I still have kind of bad gut on Fabloo, for Gut Reasons, but it's hard to say for sure since my only experience was in the the midgame part of the last game.

Meow stands out as someone who hasn't put out much content. I'd say the same with Yaer but he has kind of put out a few effort posts.

There's still no PX, but it's hard to say anything about him since I'm blatantly biased.

I am new in terms of player experience, but I have thoroughly read the games which interest me before joining.


NekoNekoRex

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #223 on: April 15, 2020, 08:16:22 AM »
I sure can't wait for the long-winded Raikaria post that I don't want to read that I'm sure he's working on right now, having not seen him pretty much all day.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Bardiche

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #224 on: April 15, 2020, 08:21:31 AM »
Uh, is it scummy to be miffed when the first thing someone writes to you is, "You're smug"? I'm not angry, it's just ironic, considering I suck at this game.

Am I genuinely the only one who sees Tom go, "Secondly, you go after me instead of better targets", followed by, "Hey hold up, it's nitpicking to hold me to account on that"? Look, if he's going to say there are two reasons to vote me, and one of them is I "go after him instead of better targets", I think it's pretty scummy to say holding him to account over claims is nitpicking.

raikaria

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #225 on: April 15, 2020, 08:34:01 AM »
I'm here, I'm awake.

Going to address a few main points I've seen:

1: 'Lynch all lurkers'

MotK Scum have a very strong habit of lurking and coasting. What happens quite often, especially on Day 1 is two active townies end up caseing each other, or having cases form on them, simply because they're the only content to scumhunt on. Day 1 ends in Town v Town wagons.

I'm saying this fully aware that I probably qualify as lurking right now; but I'm also giving people updates about my shifts and such. I work in healthcare; so things are a little zany right now at work.

2: The Bard wagon.

And this seems to be a perfect example of what I've said above. Bard seems to be the first person to try and make an actual case, and as a result; several people who don't agree with his case and the fact he's stuck his neck out to try and end RVS, have jumped on him.

Rule of thumb: Generally the person willing to draw attention to themselves and move town onto actual useful discussion is town. Or a least it's a towntell. Even if the case is weak/bad. It's not like much else can be made to end RVS.

3: I wouldn't lean on mafiascum as gospel. It dosen't take into account habits of groups.

4:
I'd still like to no lynch the first day, I'm only voting you because you voted for me.

I agree with Tom, we should no-lynch now and wait better for the abilities to do their thing.

In addition, the mafiascum guide states its only helpful to lynch lurkers when there's a sufficiently large pool of inactive lurkers for scum to hide.
Right now, our only pool of inactives are zwerdijib, meow56, and disquieted.

This should not be a lynch-all-lurkers policy today, it won't exactly be helpful.

No-Lynch is an awful idea. It's a town-controlled kill. It gives us information about relations and such, even if it flips town. Lynching town obviously is not ideal, but it's much better to lynch town and get information now than to make that mistake later in the game. Town have mislynches for a reason. Furthermore; it lowers the pool for town-aligned power roles to target, such as Cops; or a Doc to get a lucky killblock.

Also not quite sure why Waffles excludes me from the 'inactives' list.

Now; onto my vote:

I'd still like to no lynch the first day, I'm only voting you because you voted for me.

Who's scummy?  Well you're in first place Bard since you relentlessly attack me with posts watered down with prose like you're trying to hide behind your own words.  Your first posts seemed very artificial like you didn't know how to word them properly without seeming suspicious and opted to drown out the suspicion in white noise by means of word count.  You nitpick through my posts, latching onto single phrases I didn't give much thought into writing like "instead of going after better targets."  These are actions fitting of someone desperate to drive the blame away from themselves and are willing to throw newer players under the bus to do so.

Disquieted raised an eyebrow because they haven't posted much and only initiated the conversation with something along the lines of "I am chewing" and were likely to leave it at that if no one pressed them further.  Nothing personal against them, just that out of context post seemed very much like an attempt to reset the prod timer.

Polaris and Fabloo are town in my opinion, they're driving the investigation and generally willing to put themselves out there, something mafia wouldn't do as the more they post the more quotable evidence they leave for later to be recalled upon.
I'll be off for today, happy scumhunting~

There's so much in this post I do not like at all:

1: Pushes for NL. I explained why I do not like that above. NL is denying Town information and giving mafia a free kill.

2: Outright admits his vote on Bard is pure OMGUS. 'I'm only voting you because you voted me'. Also; in mafia you're supposed to nitpick through posts. To find things that may be indicators of scum, or inconsistancies, and so on.

This isn't strictly a scumtell; but a personal dislike of mine is giving out hard townreads. This paints a target on the backs of these players for mafia to kill.

3: But what I do find scummy here is the reason. Polaris and Fabloo are town for trying to drive the investigation, but Bardiche isn't town for trying to drive the investigation [He was the first to try and get us out of RVS and make an actual case] because his case is on Tom and therefor; he must be scum.

4: He says scum wouldn't post much to leave evidence that can be used later. This conflicts with his push for NL [Surely this opinion is congruent with a Lynch all Lurkers policy?] and it also conflicts with his Bard vote; as Bard *is* sticking his neck out. Which he says scum wouldn't be doing. This is an inconsistancy.

##Vote: Tom


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Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #226 on: April 15, 2020, 10:14:40 AM »
Thy Goddess blesses thee with her presence.

The child known as Tom seems as a lost lamb to Us, thus We will allow their transgressions to pass while he learns to stand on his feet. The confrontation with Bardiche looks as misguided infighting to Us.

Thy Goddess blessed all with their proper roles, it is for them to to discern their purpose and no others to learn of and misguide them.

The child known as Serela has said many words without saying much. I look forward to seeing more to discern if thy words are Our teachings or blasphemy against the Goddesses.

Thy Goddess shalt turn Our condemnation towards the being NNR. Thy words contain naught but emptiness and Sloth. Thy vote on Bardiche contains no substance nor reason to stand upon. As such, We bring Our power upon thee.

##Unvote
##Vote: NekoNekoRex

Disquieted

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #227 on: April 15, 2020, 10:20:00 AM »
All these new players are looking for pointers and/or tips. Look, here's what's going to happen:

We're going to lynch someone, probably someone in the perceived lower half of skill level of the players in the game that had the most uninspired d1 by tone and/or volume; hopefully we're right.

The mafia are going to kill someone, probably BBM if he's a villager and/or has something that could be minimally construed as a powerful role, and then some other stuff may or may not happen and we'll have NK/mechanical stuff to talk about

It's hard to gin up enthusiasm when the real game isn't actually going to start for the better part of 48 hours, and having Bardiche act like he's all clever for voting Tom because there's a 25% chance he could be right and have gotten in on the ground floor is tiring.

Spoiler:
Alright, that makes me feel better. Apologies to Bardiche. Lemme see what I can write.

Disquieted

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #228 on: April 15, 2020, 10:41:15 AM »
Here's some real thoughts.

What I pushed on with Polaris is a gotcha moment. My point is that, well, you make a point. I just don't know why it exists. And that's very problematic.

The point is "right, you were the one who skipped out to play mystery dungeon" (and what I ended up alluding to, spoiled, was me realising that Polaris was getting zwerdjib confused with Nuxl. But he didn't pick up on that, so I digress, let's continue on.) I think in most circumstances - and especially regarding zwerdjib - is that zwerdjib kinda just doesn't want to show up and play as mafia. And that's what Polaris is implying, right?

Quote
were you the person who skipped out on mafia to play mystery dungeon, because if so this is not totally out of the blue i guess *squints eyes* if you really did just not know the game started (as the activity log would tend to suggest) then i won't call you scum for it :v

Yeah. He's saying that doing that sort of thing is normally scummy, but cause he didn't actually know the game started, he's giving him a free pass.

It feels... empty. Throwaway, if you will. If I was reading zwerdjib the number one thing I would be thinking of is how interested he would be playing this game, right? The fact that zwerdjib didn't show up is, hm, how do I put this, I don't end on a "ehh zwerdjib isn't really scummy" here. Just feels kind of not very deep in considering zwerdjib's alignment.

And that's kind of a pattern really. I don't really think he believes his case on Fabloo, which is a thing I guess. Like I'm reading through what he's saying and he's not really sure how to start Day 1 but this isn't really how... I... would fabricate a case on Day 1 even if I'm really struggling to get into this game. Like he's really thinking about this game, but I'm trying to track his progression on Fabloo and I'm not really seeing how he feels so comfortable on his read. I can't even explain his read on Fabloo cause quite frankly, I can't even tell you what his logical read on Fabloo is in terms of -> this is definitively scum because...

Like in my opinion it's literally a case to be a case. It's not really indicative of any sort of genuine scumhunting and I'm not very comfortable with it. I'm also marginally not comfortable with his treatment of myself, right? I'm not being very genuine up until now and his expression is of... disappointment? Like what stops me from being just a very dumb mafia member? I guess nothing really, but the disappointment kind of doesn't track sitting from an alignment neutral standpoint.

In general Polaris has a very showboaty, perfunctory tone. And that's fine. Maybe I'm not used to it. But it niggles at me, and I hope that's fine.

Anyways. That's that. I don't really want it to be a proper case even though I wrote a lot of words on it and I don't really want Polaris lynched today. You can see my actual thoughts on that matter above. But it's definitely thoughts that I should convey.

Bardiche

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #229 on: April 15, 2020, 10:47:10 AM »
Yeah okay, I'm not playing social games to be constantly insulted.

@Mod: Requesting replacement.

Disquieted

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #230 on: April 15, 2020, 10:54:00 AM »
As I alluded to, I'm not really paying attention to anything between Bardiche and Tom. It's an unfortunate habit I've picked up and I should be paying attention but I don't have the effort to do so, cause what I'm skimming from it is that it's getting kind of, um, not very conducive to alignment solving. To be polite. I think, anyways. I don't really want to look further into it.

I kind of think like, ignoring whatever I'm trying to ignore, that Tom is really really townie, I'd be surprised if he's pushing these moves as scum. Hard to really say what I'm really thinking here but there's some sort of energy that I'm seeing that really makes him feel townie, let's leave it at that. Bardiche was kind of shifty, sure, and the votes on him are warranted, but he's doing something right now and I don't really think it's scummy but it's something that that's probably going to get him mislynched on Day 1. I don't even know how to express how I find it towny, it's just really a self-centred view and if I'm plotting what he wants it's a very "I have a vote, tell me to move it" and that's, honestly, not fantastic on a logical bent, but he's definitely searching for something here and that is towny of him. I don't know, I don't really want to explain this read because it feels like nonsense that you shouldn't be reading from me. But there it is.

I feel uncomfortable in particular that meow came in, offered a comment that was kind of insightful really from my memory, and just... left. Cause it means he can do better, and it feels like he's underplaying on purpose for that reason, and that doesn't feel... good. Yaersulf is I suppose a character, but the people I'm not familiar with like Tom and NucleusWaffles I at least feel some sort of a vibe from and that's something I can easily do with people that are town that I'm familiar with. Yaersulf, I don't really have anything to say. I guess something can happen eventually.

I could talk about theory but every time I see it I don't really feel like I would be contributing anything less than is necessary to the conversation. You guys have the general gist covered, I suppose.

Disquieted

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2020, 10:54:55 AM »
Sigh.


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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #232 on: April 15, 2020, 10:55:19 AM »
Bardiche is requesting a replacement for Ys Mafia, please message me if you are interested in joining.

Disquieted

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #233 on: April 15, 2020, 11:12:43 AM »
Posting in a mafia game was a mistake.

Posting memes was a mistake.

Posting really just generally was a mistake.

Next time I'll just delete anything that pokes at a sore spot instead of trying to keep things for the soul of the meme. My bad, but I'm sure you don't care.

I'll see you tomorrow I guess.

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #234 on: April 15, 2020, 11:22:28 AM »
Welp. I was half convinced that Nucleus and Bardiche were both scum engaged in some kind of theatrical misdirection, now I have no idea what to think.

##Unvote

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #235 on: April 15, 2020, 11:25:51 AM »

I don't understand why there is pressure on Bardiche, and why, conversely, has there not been pressure on meow56, zwerdijib, and disquieted.

I don't like the Bardiche lynch, I also read the mafiascum wiki but lynching lurkers should not be a policy in games with strong meta tells. We have a player base where many persons know each other and a well-documented player meta history. Therefore it is incorrect to lynch lurkers unless they are actively making the game harmful.



However, that being said Bardiche you are a very valid wagon on D1, so why should we not lynch you?


That said this looks like a weird pivot. Mind explaining your thoughts Nucleus?

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #236 on: April 15, 2020, 11:38:07 AM »
I am not really thinking much now. I feel terrible for bullying Bard out of the game.

I genuinely like him as a person and a player.

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #237 on: April 15, 2020, 12:09:45 PM »
Ah sorry, that was a bit callous of me.

NucleusWaffles

Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #238 on: April 15, 2020, 12:32:16 PM »
Thank you for your kind gesture.

I hope we can kickstart something now, dwelling on this the longer the worse I feel.

I-----

Don't agree with the Tom wagon, I think he raises quite reasonable points from a statistical angle.

I like the raikaria wall.

I would rather lynch lurkers now. I want to see some activity.

I feel for Disquieted, it seems all effort has been voided.

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Re: Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Day One)
« Reply #239 on: April 15, 2020, 12:45:32 PM »
Alright.

So given that you know that zwerdjib was scum last game, this statement doesn't really track. Cause I feel like a defining part of zwerdjib's gameplay was him not just being in the thread and instead playing videogames and was why he ended up being scum at the end. So you could probably call it a scum indicator. Whether zwerdjib will agree on that being his meta is a different matter but I'm not sure why you would consider this in particular not alignment indicative.

Spoiler:
as I write this I realise there's a really easy answer to this, but, my funeral I guess.

no

while i was demotivated to play that game off the merit that i rolled scum for the 4th time in a row, its also not like i had any free time to do so

and yes i am going to justify my actions postgame because i think you need the full picture to actually attempt to metaread me (which is not happening this time, either)