Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[Nuxl]

last post on this: go to https://www.smogon.com/forums/, go on the top right, click the search tab, on the "by:" line, type "nuxl" followed by a comma and hit search.

typing "Duskfall98" will give you his posts instead!

[Serela]

oh god why is there 7 pages within the first TWELVE HOURS

WHY

i dunno how much this site takes meta into account i kinda went under the premise people sort of know how each other play and thus could make >rand accurate reads because of multiple games with each other

if that's not the case here then i'll just drop that assumption

The main issue is that motk mafia was on hold for literally 5 years, so unless they've been playing with eachother on other sites it'll be a lot harder to do meta-reads. Although not impossible!

Just... not by the end of d1 @_@

Still, I imagine there'll at least be stuff like "no, Serela always acts like that, do you understand our pain now", and Dormio's somehow still increasingly horrifying self-inflicted post restrictions

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define meta
{
        Bullstrawberries.
}

[Nuxl]

define meta
{
        Bullstrawberries.
}

as long as it's correctly applied it's a pretty useful tool! but a good amount of players on smogon use it so it could just be a diff there

i'll always be watching but thread health is probably better if i don't respond

[Shadoweh]

I was revoting you for emphasis you goonhead. Answer my question though.

I know I'm just saying you can't threaten me with things you're already doing..
The answer is just going to make you mad though, I said that to bug you and you're reacting by being more pushy and considering putting in effort, which is cute and townie of you. I decided while mining iridium that I should stop bugging you when I think you're reaction is townie. :kassgiggle:

##Unvote
##Vote: Prims

idg why you'd think us talking is weird or suspicious Mr. huh what Prims Jesus, if anything me bothering Conq to see if he's town should be nostalgic because I like being able to trust people.

If you expect me to post a lot I have bad news, its the Spirit's Eve Festival and I have sooooo many pumpkins to plant ^.^

[O4rfish]

Arthur's push on Nuxl is valid. 
I think I may be able to explain the gut reaction though.

From Conq's perspective, Shadoweh was trying to apply a meta read to RVS, which doesn't make sense and would be bad hunting (aka possibly scummy).  Shadoweh's response isn't good, but if you look at her followup posts this whole thing can be viewed as a triple word score "Just joking ... unless? Also flirty" poke at Conq.  Which tbf is still scummy but who can resist a triple?

Dormio's OMGUS attack on Shadoweh is pretty meh, given how players have been surprised with the amount of posts in this thread.  It seemed like an excuse for voteparking, which is going to make this next point kind of awkward ...

Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid.  Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.

Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum

I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it. 

[O4rfish]

his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon.  caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana

This has to be the worst post of all time.  Refa is targeting Zwerdjib, and Nuxl defends him by saying "Zwerdjib probably seems scummy as town and towny as scum.  I will protect him."

implying one of two things: "The people who want to lynch Zwerdjib are trying to lynch a scum-seeming towny player, therefore those people have revealed themselves to be the actual scum;"

or "Zwerdjib is acting very scummy therefore he is very town."

I think it deserves a vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nuxl

and someone named Prims is ... wait, is Prims short for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?

[Nuxl]

This has to be the worst post of all time.  Refa is targeting Zwerdjib, and Nuxl defends him by saying "Zwerdjib probably seems scummy as town and towny as scum.  I will protect him."

implying one of two things: "The people who want to lynch Zwerdjib are trying to lynch a scum-seeming towny player, therefore those people have revealed themselves to be the actual scum;"

or "Zwerdjib is acting very scummy therefore he is very town."

I think it deserves a vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nuxl

and someone named Prims is ... wait, is Prims short for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?

you're looking too much into implications that aren't there. you also seem to be worried about the amount i'm posting rather than my content

it's similar to a person on my homesite who i have a good read on. thought i made that clear

[Nuxl]

you ever approach a slot and be like "this person does not align towards what my usual expectations of a mafia player is"? how do you approach their slot @O4rfish?

[Nuxl]

you ever approach a slot and be like "this person does not align towards what my usual expectations of a mafia player is"? how do you approach their slot @O4rfish?

(you may take this as relevantly to the game as you like. meta is always first but mindset is more entertaining)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define meta
{
        Bullstrawberries.
        // Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
        (zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
define Statement2
{
        I would also like to say that (Nuxl) is failing to impress as well. Refusing to explain opinions by hiding behind the shield that he calls "meta" is questionable, to say the least.  If I had a second vote, it would go on him.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement1)
        ask (Statement2)
        return (Opinions)
}

[Nuxl]

define meta
{
        Bullstrawberries.
        // Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
        (zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
define Statement2
{
        I would also like to say that (Nuxl) is failing to impress as well. Refusing to explain opinions by hiding behind the shield that he calls "meta" is questionable, to say the least.  If I had a second vote, it would go on him.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement1)
        ask (Statement2)
        return (Opinions)
}

it's interesting how people on different sites treat the concept of meta like it's useless. it's uh, not. as long as you're good at it. if you had, say a concrete personal read on a player i never played with before but you had i would be 100% more inclined to trust your read on it than my own (provided i trust your alignment) because that personal experience matters in reading a player. like i would trust my own read on duskfall98 more than i would any of your reads on him because we've played with each other for like 18 months. oh well, mentality things and all

i think i have responded to anything i was asked to comment on. idg how not explaining things (of which uh, i had when people asked me to! if you read my posts) is scummy even in a general sense but kk

[O4rfish]

Why the fire truck would you post three posts within ten minutes, after I JUST ASKED YOU TO CUT THAT strawberries OUT?

Try thinking about your posts BEFORE you post them, which even could be (and should be) AFTER you write them.  More content in fewer posts - this would be easier for other people (such as me) to read and understand. 

Unless your priority is filling up the thread instead of getting other people to read and understand what you write.  That would be scummy, so if you're scum you should keep doing what you're doing.

In response to your point about implications that aren't there, Nuxl, you said "anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana"

You are threatening people, and I made assumptions as to what the threat was, and the reason for making this threat.  I will place an apology in escrow on the condition that those assumptions were incorrect. 

Therefore: please explain fully AND IN ONE SINGLE POST what your threat was, and why it was justified (from a Town perspective).

I will say this: when a person makes me think "person is playing Mafia in a backwards manner" my response is not "I must protect that person"

[Nuxl]

Why the fire truck would you post three posts within ten minutes, after I JUST ASKED YOU TO CUT THAT strawberries OUT?

Try thinking about your posts BEFORE you post them, which even could be (and should be) AFTER you write them.  More content in fewer posts - this would be easier for other people (such as me) to read and understand. 

Unless your priority is filling up the thread instead of getting other people to read and understand what you write.  That would be scummy, so if you're scum you should keep doing what you're doing.

In response to your point about implications that aren't there, Nuxl, you said "anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana"

You are threatening people, and I made assumptions as to what the threat was, and the reason for making this threat.  I will place an apology in escrow on the condition that those assumptions were incorrect. 

Therefore: please explain fully AND IN ONE SINGLE POST what your threat was, and why it was justified (from a Town perspective).

I will say this: when a person makes me think "person is playing Mafia in a backwards manner" my response is not "I must protect that person"

it was a joke lol

[Nuxl]

post count is not alignment indicative at all unless it's directly tied to meta. i'm just a high volume poster. not really something i can change. you ever heard of mafia universe or read a game there?

answer my questions though thanks

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement3
{
        It's really stupid to go off somebody's established meta if that meta is well known. And it's even worse if the aforementioned meta is simply being outright stated in the thread. If people know that there is a certain expectation of them, then it's really easy to subvert that particular expectation in order to fulfill whatever need you have at the time.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement3)
        return (Opinions)
}

[Nuxl]

define Statement3
{
        It's really stupid to go off somebody's established meta if that meta is well known. And it's even worse if the aforementioned meta is simply being outright stated in the thread. If people know that there is a certain expectation of them, then it's really easy to subvert that particular expectation in order to fulfill whatever need you have at the time.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement3)
        return (Opinions)
}

this assumes people can fully change in the timespan of a game doesn't it? most people can't and fall back on stuff traditional to them

[Nuxl]

like if one person is very good at an alignment more often than not their play as the other is a lot weaker in comparison

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Question8
{
        Ignoring the fact that I disagree with (Nuxl) wholly on the statement of meta, does (Nuxl) have an actual opinion on any of the players who have posted so far?
}
define Statement4
{
        A lot of what (Nuxl) has posted so far boils down an argument about a meta read that I, personally, couldn't care less about and arguments surrounding the usage of aforementioned meta. If anything, it seems like it's detracting from the entire scumhunting effort and serves as little more than a distraction.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
        ask (Question8)
        ask (Statement4)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        loop (Statement2)
}

[Nuxl]

define Question8
{
        Ignoring the fact that I disagree with (Nuxl) wholly on the statement of meta, does (Nuxl) have an actual opinion on any of the players who have posted so far?
}
define Statement4
{
        A lot of what (Nuxl) has posted so far boils down an argument about a meta read that I, personally, couldn't care less about and arguments surrounding the usage of aforementioned meta. If anything, it seems like it's detracting from the entire scumhunting effort and serves as little more than a distraction.
}
query (Nuxl)
{
        ask (Question8)
        ask (Statement4)
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        loop (Statement2)
}

i think zwer should not be voted and i like conq's pressure. i disagree with your assertion on zwer on page 2 because i also took the shadoweh/conq thing to be a joke vote (as stated by my +1) and asked you a question on page 4 that basically asks why it's important to rush out of rvs. i have said this previously.

are people even reading my posts?

[Nuxl]

i'm amazed that culture is so different here, nobody on my homesite thinks topposting is meant to be "a distraction". it's actually so much of the reverse of what i'm used to. mb that i dont align? hahaha

[sb]

whats slank lynching policy on this site? how much lurking is generally tolerated until we realize "wait X wagon is t/t lets lynch a lurker instead and see if thats a better vote" or smth like that

MotKtown: where the scum is scummy and town stopped playing.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

I don't understand your Prims vote. It feels like a reaction that's disproportionate to what Prims actually posted, like "this is confusing and I want to see where it goes" => "it shouldn't be confusing, you're wrong". Why would that be something voteworthy instead of a point of disagreement?

I'm not big on Zeep's (zwerdjib) response to Dormio early Shadoweh vote, it does feel kinda discussion stifling and unnatural. His NNR vote reasons are also a little confusing (especially because I didn't even see them until Conq asked about them) but his explanation feels like a genuine thought at least. That being said, what do you think of Nuxl? I don't have a good idea of what your opinion on him is which is weird because you've talked to him the most.

I don't have a strong read on Nuxl yet but I think the suspicions on his slot are kinda wonky. Rather than being align indicative yet I feel like he's somewhere between excited and culture-shocked. Oarfish, if Zeep was actually a townie instead of scum (whcih seems to be the angle you're pursuing right now), how would that change your current suspicion on Nuxl?

[AbuHumaid]

he rolled scum without me and thus did not post for all of d1 ;)

im fairly certain that case was the exception to the rule, and he should be able to answer that better himself. the game is specifically the most recent ranked game on 451

Could this be a scumtell? :thonk:

[zwerdjib]

id say im reading thread but vision is blurry

[zwerdjib]

ok good now one sec

[Niektory]

Nuxl. Seriously. Slow down. Over a third of the posts in the topic is yours.

[AbuHumaid]

his entire actions the entire game felt incredibly stinted in a way where it's like reading a particular someone(caffeineboost) on smogon.  caffeineboost is a player who acts incredibly scummy as town and sorta towny as scum. pure awkwardness. gut pinged it as "really hard to be coached" here. anybody who votes zeep will feel the steel blade of my katana

##Vote: Nuxl

You were subtly defending zwerd for weak reasons (yes meta is weak most of the time) then when you get called out on it you say it's a joke in #193?

[zwerdjib]

ok so i cant multiquote efficiently on mobile so forgive me if i need to make 3 posts one second

[sb]

Abu, how was the part you quoted subtle? I understand the rest of what you're saying (but don't think it's scummy) but I don't think that Nuxl has tried to keep the fact he's defending Zeep on the down-low at all. Why is Nuxl here scum defending Zeep instead of town defending Zeep? What would you expect to be different?

[zwerdjib]

ok so i cant multiquote efficiently on mobile so forgive me if i need to make 3 posts one second

nevermind im a wizard

Zwerd, please don't focus on meta so much because to my knowledge it doesn't exist. Just makes it harder reading you TBH.

(and his addendum)

I mean MotK meta, not individuals' meta. I think meta reading is going to be weak for other reasons (most people haven't played in a while, so they'll play differently), but there's at least merit to that.

(im going to assume the addendum is addressed to me too @ refa)

this is actually the exact opposite of what im doing (except asking about lurker policy, thats its own thing) and it does really help to understand expectations of players of the site as it gives me some insight into what is likely to happen. i dont, however, blindly believe in meta as a tool to push people - very different from nuxl here - but i think an established pattern is hard to break and at the very least something of a starting point. a guideline more than a metric

with that said i still believe we should be totally pushing people, regardless of what their projected reaction will be. and i believe you agree with me there. so this is more like a reiteration than argument

Dormio's attack on Zwerdjib is extremely valid.  Nuxl and Zwerdjib have been spamming the thread and from my first couple reads it seems like they've done more trashposting than hunting.

Tentative reads: Arthur town, Conq town, Dormio town, Nuxl scum, Shadoweh scum, Zwerdjib scum

I'll do another read trying to get more information on Nuxl and Zwerdjib but GUYS PLEASE take a few minutes to read your post before posting it.

well this is an annoying and unhealthy mindset

of course we are going to dick around and say literally nothing. thats what was happening before lol

i would love to scumhunt with 2 pages of nothingness but im afraid thats simply not feasible. though i get the feeling youre talking more about post volume here

im going to defend nuxl here because the sites we come from are, for some people, literally considered one and the same so i understand why he carries the posting style he does. post style/volume is generally nai so its kind of unfair to read him for this

otoh if you are genuinely talking about his content, youre not actually pulling any examples to criticize so i dont see where youre going with that

final note: what benefit does it bring to mafia to clutter thread when you can. yknow. isolate posts. i would like to know

define meta
{
        Bullstrawberries.
        // Whilst looking at patterns of behaviour can be useful in niche scenarios, using them to dismiss cases as you are are not one of those niche scenarios
}
define Statement1
{
        (zwerdjib)'s posts don't impress me at all. The fact that he tried to shut down my discussion with an extremely weak line of questioning towards (NekoNekoRex) does not endear him to me.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        ask (Statement1)
        return (Opinions)
}

you sure you want my opinions? you havent seemed to like them thus far, heh

well, for the third time, the nnr thing is the best thing i have. i dont think reading into shadoweh/conq will do much good for me (especially since that appears to be related to site meta, which is exactly what youre criticizing) so i may as fire trucking well see how far we may get with a lurker.

i will, of course, change my mind if anything happens but so far we have gotten almost nowhere in 7 pages. this is an attempt to try to get somewhere

(sorry this took all morning. breakfast -> bus -> check-in eats a lot of time up)