Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[Serela]

refa's d2 post! it has no opinions about anyone :D N I C E

and by nice I mean B A D >:C Ok I'm iso'ing refa now like a responsible townie

Honestly Refa's posts are relatable and adorable. They're not BLATANTLY scummy like me yelling at Shadoweh and Abu for emptyposting, but there's also a very noticeable pattern.

[insert sb quote here]
I had the same reaction to Shadoweh TBH and while I'm not sure how scummy that actually is, kinda wanna sheep it for now until I get a better vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

And then this is repeated when Refa jumps on the Raikaria wago-wait what
oh no that vote was precluded by two other posts with questions and followups and original reasoning

NOOOOOOOO MY SCUM READ, I'M READING REFA'S LATER D1 POSTS AND THE SCUM READ IS DISSOLVING AWAAAAYYYYY
THERE'S JUST SO MANY QUESTIONS AND GENUINE CURIOSITY AND INTEREST AND DISCOURSE AND EFFORT

THERE'S SEVEN NEW POSTS AND...

I don't have a result, the rest of you lazy bastards can go back to your regularly scheduled thread.

*SCCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMIINGGGG*

[Fabloo]

I feel like I'm surrounded by mostly townies. This is making me unsure about Dormio.

[Conqueror]

I CLAIMED VANILLA YESTERDAY WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ME TO DO, SAY I CHANGED MY MIND AND WAS A VOYEUR THAT WENT TO PRIMS'S HOUSE FOR COOKIES OR SOMETHING?

The last time I claimed a result on you when you were mafia you folded instantly, tbh I wanted to see if it would happen again to make my life easy.

You can say that but then we would have just lynched Abu, because when someone openclaims a shot you don't just say 'oh maybe mafia had brain damage and shot the same person you said you were killing in thread'

You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.

[Fabloo]

Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward.  2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?

[Serela]

You say that but Bard claimed the UK scum kill as his in Zombies and then survived to endgame and won. Also the missing kill would be docced or something as the obvious explanation.

It actually would have been absolutely hilarious if Raikaria had hammered himself successfully, Abu shot duskfall, the mafia shot duskfall too to damage his credibility, and then town lynched Abu over it later.

[O4rfish]

wait we're on page 35, is this okay?

PR is power role - you have the ability to do something, generally at night.  As opposed to say masons/neighbors, innocent child, etc.

[Serela]

Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward.  2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?

SB had a scumread and case on NNR based off something he completely misread and basically fell on his face, it was hilarious but not actually indicative of alignment AFAIK

[Conqueror]

Conq, I'm not rushing your post. It does interest me though. SB's slipup and behavior afterward was just undeniably awkward.  2 pages since and there's been little talk about it. Did nobody else find it damning?

Can you link to the post you're talking about? I'll remember to take a look.

[Serela]

Oh wait. Shadoweh isn't softconfirmed scum anymore. I actually have to vote her again.

##Vote Shadoweh

[Refa]

zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.

 Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.

I was expecting it TBH but didn't want to say anything. Most of my thoughts are still valid though.

How do you think Serela compares to his scum meta now? You mentioned he had difficulty faking reads on town (honestly kind of seeing him having trouble coming up with scumreads) but is there anything else? Actually if you have anything on NNR, that would help too because that's another read I'm struggling with.

I feel like I'm surrounded by mostly townies. This is making me unsure about Dormio.

Are you unsure about him because you feel like one of the agreeable people has to be scum or was there something else? For me, I think I'm like "I've historically disagreed with Dormio's cases but his thought process is fine" so it's hard to have a TR on that. Also for me, it's like...I don't think it's likely that the entire Abu wagon was town and the people I feel shakiest about on it are Dormio, Serela, and like...Niekstory as a distant third.

WRT SB, I feel like he's less likely to slip up as scum? I read it as him genuinely fire trucking up and having to reevaluate his reads. What about it did you find damning?

I don't think I'm getting a reply from Shadoweh TBH.  :'(

[Fabloo]

Can you link to the post you're talking about? I'll remember to take a look.

Start at #974 to about #982. There's also his case a bit back, but he discarded every momentum he had on NNR and shifted over to his second option ORfish kinda badly.

[Refa]

wait we're on page 35, is this okay?

PR is power role - you have the ability to do something, generally at night.  As opposed to say masons/neighbors, innocent child, etc.

I don't think Prims was killed for that, though. I think Prims was killed because he's a good player, who was 1) already right or 2) had the potential to be right in the future.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement43
{
        I hate this game.
}
query (Dormio Ergo Sum)
{
        cout <<loop (Statement43)
}
I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game.

[Refa]

Is raik just mechanically a better lynch than Abu here I think they both will get lynched regardless bad it doesn't hurt to let Abu prove himself, unless he shoots me and is scum vig which would admittedly be big sad

Actually Shadoweh's argument confuses me because Duskfall said strawberries like this so I don't get where she's coming from at all. I'm feeling better about him after ISOing, he was like way less self preservation than I thought. He stopped campaigning to lynch Abu at all past a certain point.

Man, I'm just going with my gut. I know I should like, reread him and strawberries, but this is where my head is at currently until then.

##Vote: Serela

[Fabloo]

Are you unsure about him because you feel like one of the agreeable people has to be scum or was there something else? For me, I think I'm like "I've historically disagreed with Dormio's cases but his thought process is fine" so it's hard to have a TR on that. Also for me, it's like...I don't think it's likely that the entire Abu wagon was town and the people I feel shakiest about on it are Dormio, Serela, and like...Niekstory as a distant third.

WRT SB, I feel like he's less likely to slip up as scum? I read it as him genuinely fire trucking up and having to reevaluate his reads. What about it did you find damning?

Yeah, the Abu wagon needs to be looked at again. I wasn't focusing on it yet. When I said there has to be one it's just me organizing my thoughts and giving olive branches to discussion. I get a tingling sensation when I start townreading most of the page so I referred back to the lack of Dormio's presence to come to some sense of it. When it comes to SB, what seems damning to me is that he backed himself into a corner, and that his jump only ORfish doesn't make sense. I said it to him and I can say it to you-- It's not like his work was invalid due to one hiccup. He just decided it was pointless and sheepishly voted ORfish which did not seem like an organic place of thinking. Even through embarrassment I don't know if he'd just trash his thought so suddenly as town.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement44
{
        I hate the fact that I have to read through the thread again after seeing (Prims)' flip.
}
define Statement45
{
        I hate the fact that (Prims)' flip completely throws off the train of thought I had while reading the thread during the night phase.
}
define Statement46
{
        I hate the fact that there are already 3 pages of actual posts with real content that I have to read through on top of rereading the end of day 1.
}
define Statement47
{
        I hate the fact that I'm still playing this game that (Playerbase) calls mafia.
}
define Statement48
{
        I hate this stupid post restriction that I put on myself and how much time it wastes because I manually format everything like an idiot.
}
define Statement49
{
        I hate that I can't just make a case on (NekoNekoRex) and call it a day like I can in other games and I have to actually read (Playerbase).
}
define Statement50
{
        I hate the fact that I was cut twice while making this post.
}
define Statement51
{
        I hate the fact that I have to make another post with actual opinions after my previous set was invalidated.
}
query (Playerbase)
{
        cout <<(Statement44)
        cout <<(Statement45)
        cout <<(Statement46)
        cout <<(Statement47)
        cout <<(Statement48)
        cout <<(Statement49)
        cout <<(Statement50)
        cout <<(Statement51)
}
I hate the fact that I have to read through the thread again after seeing (Prims)' flip. I hate the fact that (Prims)' flip completely throws off the train of thought I had while reading the thread during the night phase. I hate the fact that there are already 3 pages of actual posts with real content that I have to read through on top of rereading the end of day 1. I hate the fact that I'm still playing this game that (Playerbase) calls mafia. I hate this stupid post restriction that I put on myself and how much time it wastes because I manually format everything like an idiot. I hate that I can't just make a case on (NekoNekoRex) and call it a day like I can in other games and I have to actually read (Playerbase). I hate the fact that I was cut twice while making this post. I hate the fact that I have to make another post with actual opinions after my previous set was invalidated.

[O4rfish]

Refa, you said "Feel like he was fearkilled as an unlikely doc candidate"
and Duskfall said "Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine"

but I still believe they killed him because he's a good player who had a scum read on me, and I'm today's lynch target. They wouldn't want to kill the town version of sb and then try to convince people that town sb's townread on me was garbage.

[Serela]

I hate this stupid post restriction that I put on myself and how much time it wastes because I manually format everything like an idiot.

Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3

(also, going to bed. refa uh... didn't actually... give me anything I can respond to there, so uh)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement52
{
        But I would never be able to forgive myself.
}
if (Reply #1037)
{
        cout <<(Statement52)
}
But I would never be able to forgive myself.

[Refa]

Yeah, the Abu wagon needs to be looked at again. I wasn't focusing on it yet. When I said there has to be one it's just me organizing my thoughts and giving olive branches to discussion. I get a tingling sensation when I start townreading most of the page so I referred back to the lack of Dormio's presence to come to some sense of it. When it comes to SB, what seems damning to me is that he backed himself into a corner, and that his jump only ORfish doesn't make sense. I said it to him and I can say it to you-- It's not like his work was invalid due to one hiccup. He just decided it was pointless and sheepishly voted ORfish which did not seem like an organic place of thinking. Even through embarrassment I don't know if he'd just trash his thought so suddenly as town.

Fair enough at the not SB parts.

I agree that it didn't completely dismantle his case, and he could have stuck with it. I just don't get like...why wouldn't he have stuck with it as scum? What sticks out to me is that he immediately made the vote switch but when you pressed him on it, he had a pretty fast explanation. I think the worst part of this is why is he voting Oarfish because I don't get why Oarfish is scum but the actual jump seemed genuine to me.

Refa, you said "Feel like he was fearkilled as an unlikely doc candidate"
and Duskfall said "Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine"

but I still believe they killed him because he's a good player who had a scum read on me, and I'm today's lynch target. They wouldn't want to kill the town version of sb and then try to convince people that town sb's townread on me was garbage.

Unlikely to be docced. It's not because he was a PR.

What makes you think that you're today's lynch target?

Dormio we would all forgive you if you stopped. <3

(also, going to bed. refa uh... didn't actually... give me anything I can respond to there, so uh)

Sorry Serela, still trying to sort out my thoughts here. What's bothering me about you is

1) At the end of the day, it felt like you didn't really care about who got lynched
2) I can get having a hard time scumreading coming into today but it read to me like what Conq described your scum meta as

So I'd like to know

1) Why are your null reads where they are? Why can't they be town or scum reads?
2) What happened to your cases from yesterday? Legit question because I don't actually remember them.

[Nuxl]

in thread, but kind of tired

[Nuxl]

my "maybe" towncore read was not prims ftr

Prime was probably killed for pr hunting reasons id imagine

who on this pl actually does this though lmao? my thought was it was a fear based kill but that points to an inexperienced team as a whole

I think Rai's end of day stuff was town, I don't think he literally self-votes and lays down his life as scum there. Maybe he thought it wouldn't go through but I really can't see scum wanting to risk it when they had the big juicy prize of lynching the vig in front of them instead.

the self-vote never mattered because there was almost no way there could've been a raikaria lynch at that time given the people on right (at the time of the self-vote he was l-4)

the only read you should take from this is if town!raik would ever self-vote there out of tone/playstyle, so anybody more familiar with his meta pls lmk

[Nuxl]

i really didn't expect prims as a nk and don't really want to go back and reread the thread as a whole to figure out why it happened

i was really happy when conq claimed he had a result because it meant i didn't need to think about today's lynch but got really sad when he dropped it. does make me feel even better about the slot though

[O4rfish]

Refa, I'm always a lynch target and today's my day.
You murder the convincing players and lynch the unconvincing players, right?  When's the last time anyone said "Ho yes Oarfish, that argument was very persuasive. I shall now vote alongside you"
No, it's always "Oarfish is a wacky dude, he's more than likely town but who really knows"

[O4rfish]

And I want to address my case earlier on Nuxl.

When you say something like "this player acts towny as scum and scummy as town" what you are really saying is "I want an excuse to protect or lynch this person whenever I see fit, because anything they do will confirm rather than refute my hypothesis"
If they act real scummy to your benefit? "They're town even more so!"
If they act real scummy to your detriment? You protest mildly while the rest of town lynches them.
If they act real towny to your benefit? "They're getting better at the game"
If they act real towny to your detriment? "Aha, they must be getting coached"

[Nuxl]

@fabloo are you an alt? have you played with any of these guys before? i dont actually think oarfish displayed aggression towards nnr on his vote, just towards me

@refa i townread tommy's eod and switch off of abu but can i give you an iou? usually as scum tommy makes you feel like you're reading literal garbage sometimes and don't exactly? see that here. agreed with his stuff overall

shadoweh is so lackadaisical and seemingly distracted from thread attention that i don't know what to read them as, don't think anybody got back to me about how that resonates with their play overall. i didn't like hate their eod but totally was buying the claim as i read the page lmao so i felt justified for being pinged by them earlier itg. gun to head i'd say the reaction town but what the hell does that leave for the rest of the game right

kinda feel like nnr and niek had really bad eods? is that too easy? like niek popping into vote abu was really bad and i definitely would've cfd'd nnr if i could just because i still dont understand why their read dropped on me the way it did. the fact that prims tr'd them makes me a little hesitant but unfortunately prims is dead so i never got my answer

think zeep catching on something random on raik that only he knows is genuine and only locks in my tr on him further lmfao

dunno why my slot is seemingly being ignored by most of the game as a slot nobody actually wants to go solve LMAO. both nnr and serela have brought this up and it kind of felt like it was saving my slot for later but that could just be a playstyle thing so i don't want to read into it too much. noting this if somebody can let me know more about that in particular

there is a notable difference in this game's d1 than sb's last scumgame he played on smogon in terms of actually making content/pushing wagons. i will need to read ocnoc2 later, we love midterms this week @refa do you usually have a good radar on sb?

ftr i do read raik's self vote as genuine but you can't make a read into the vote itself since i dont think there was a feasible way it could've been turned around onto him

re: my towncore i dont really feel like anyone has dropped out and should i feel lost that thread trajectory is heading there? i'll reread later, my play is a lot worse without familiar meta lmfao. zwer/conq/refa are all very high confidence if it helps

[Nuxl]

And I want to address my case earlier on Nuxl.

When you say something like "this player acts towny as scum and scummy as town" what you are really saying is "I want an excuse to protect or lynch this person whenever I see fit, because anything they do will confirm rather than refute my hypothesis"
If they act real scummy to your benefit? "They're town even more so!"
If they act real scummy to your detriment? You protest mildly while the rest of town lynches them.
If they act real towny to your benefit? "They're getting better at the game"
If they act real towny to your detriment? "Aha, they must be getting coached"

i thought you dropped your sr on me earlier. am i scum to you?

also i didnt do any of this. i also never implied any of this and i dont think any of this is going to get past you lmao

[NekoNekoRex]

disappointing but I can always lynch Shadoweh later.

##Unvote:
##Vote: sb

[Nuxl]

summarizing*

subject to change of course:

me

nuxl (sympathize with him. it should be obvious by now that i dont think hes scum atp unless hes tryharding really hard for this game)

refa (but at the same time, hes not necessarily giving me a lot that i can remember off the top of my head. most notable thing i remember is the questioning session a while back. ill need to reread him to form a more conclusive read)
dormio ish (has dropped off noticeably. could stand to be dropped into neutral (not null duh but))

everyone else not mentioned

nnr (in between null and scumlean)

raikaria (cant get over the slip. and im not going to argue slip semantics anymore, the omission was plain as day)
duskfall (his play was like an exponential graph. but its going down instead of up. feel like hes giving fewer and fewer reasons to tr him)

somewhat n/a but i get the feeling ill have someone here today

lol scumlocks reserved for confscum atp

as a note, i include scumlock and townlock sections in my reads list, so always count those slots (though theyre generally n/a)

wait what do you "sympathize" with me about

dont understand your dormio and tommy reads

[Nuxl]

if o4rfish or nnr flip red fabloo is not scum