Author Topic: Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over (Read 1329367 times)

zwerdjib · « **Reply #990 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:10:33 AM »

i am confused but interested

##unvote duskfall98
##vote shadoweh

Fabloo · « **Reply #991 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:21:47 AM »

Thought is incomplete. Idea of hesitation is a touchy one. Hesitation is not inherently evil, I actually like people when they consider the options. When it came to how I was reading you however, I felt your hesitation had something sinister. Your reputation from what I perceived was at a point where you could've probably sit on it and spouted some wisdom and most townies would eat it up. You didn't really ever get to the point where ORfish was documenting on how to play Mafia but I struggled to understand what the bigger picture meant. I didn't like this comparative to everything else I'd seen because you were still behaving in a way that was almost opposite to the pace of the thread. There's an argument made here somewhere that because of this you weren't trying to blend in but I think D1 was largely filled with townies such as Nuxl/Zwerd enjoying seeing themselves post and scum fitting in-between the noise. I just happened to decide you could fit in this scenario.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #992 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:22:10 AM »

Is this really happening

Shadoweh · « **Reply #993 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:23:09 AM »

Conq are you trying to troll me by reminding me of past MotK Trauma? I appreciate your committment to making it just like the old days. :Thonk:

Conqueror · « **Reply #994 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:24:06 AM »

Quote from: Fabloo on March 10, 2020, 02:09:55 AM

What I would summarize your behavior for me is that you're waiting for something to happen. I do the same thing too, it's actually a bit out of my element to make things like the Readonomicon but I was excited to play again so I let my natural instincts take over. I don't think you're someone who obsesses over your presentation, I would actually give that title to Nuxl. I do think however you care how people sort your thoughts. You offered a lot of scenarios but the thing that kept me anxious was again: why did you hesitate? Every post I read from you seemed like you had some bombshell ready but you kept it to yourself. It's ironic how we're now and you've dropped it but I'm wondering what took so long? I didn't like your EoD even if I didn't talk about it either, you were certain Abu was gonna flip scum based on what exactly? And why Abu? I again just didn't see conviction, I was waiting to be dazzled.

Okay, thanks for posting this, tbh I didn't expect you to have something ready so I'm a bit surprised. I'll respond in a bit when I get to the rest of your post but tl;dr is that I wasn't certain Abu was going to flip scum. How I usually play D1 is that I feel around and try to push wagons to see what happens when I move to them. You said I hesitated but I checked back and you were asking about why I didn't move to Serela - simply put I still wanted to make Shadoweh show up and post because it's not like I stopped scumreading her (I moved off when it became clear that she was just ignoring everything so unless we fully brought her to a lynch nothing would happen and I just got bored with having my vote on her). I got a little off track here. Back to you asking about Abu. A weakness of my D1 games is that I usually end up trying to sort relatively low content posters since I'm really bad at sorting more wordy people until later in the game. I prodded at Abu and I got almost no townvibes from him and a few scumvibes. You're right in that I didn't have conviction but what about it? That's pretty much what you're going to get out of me early and I stand by it.

Conqueror · « **Reply #995 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:26:05 AM »

Shadoweh pay attention to me senpai. :heart_eyes:

Talk to me imoimo I've been trying to talk to you all game and you haven't and it makes me grumpy!

why wont this post ive tried like 3 times by now

Fabloo · « **Reply #996 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:28:41 AM »

It's gonna be hard to case a claimed PR, but it seems we've shaken hands at this point.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #997 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:31:21 AM »

What do you want? -.- I'm about to play dnd but I don't think Claire will catch me posting.. >.>

I'm not saying we should have lynched Duskfall instead of Abu, I'm saying Abu said 'i am going to shoot Duskfall' and people, like for example, YOU, suggested that Abu is clearly faking and we should keep on the Abu train, Duskfall literally voted him to stay alive when a confirmed town would be worth his life. I am actually angry that something that obviously self-preservationalist doesn't ring other people's alarms like it does mine, instead we chose between the town vig and someone who offered to kill themselves because they realized how bad this was.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #998 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:33:48 AM »

I at least understand why it pinged your alarms conq because its something that's happened before in motk games, but I don't feel like that was a good wagon from other people's perspectives. Circlejerks of people hoping to flip the two [not scum] and making me vote in a way that makes me feel bad makes me ANGRY. So in conclusion, lynch Duskfall and maybe Serela for good fortune.

Conqueror · « **Reply #999 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:37:21 AM »

I never said Abu was clearly faking so you're proving you never read my posts at all. Even with that:

Quote from: Shadoweh on March 10, 2020, 02:31:21 AM

Duskfall literally voted him to stay alive when a confirmed town would be worth his life.

This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?

Also smh are you just ignoring I have a result on you?

NekoNekoRex · « **Reply #1000 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:45:58 AM »

So to explain my gut on sb, I think the best place to start is here.

Quote

Why don't you buy into it? I'm not following you here.

I kinda think Oarfish is town regardless though. I've never felt like they were bullstrawberriesting responses to me, it just feels like they're very misguided and tunnel too much on playstyle reasons. I'm pretty sure that they believe the cases that they're making which makes me think that they're town, but stillOarfish, I can vouch for town!Nuxl posting a similar volume of post to this (I've hosted a game with them in it) so please don't take the fact that he posts a lot as scummy because it's literally a site thing.

Zeep's response to NNR (or the bit he expanded on with Conq) feels kinda nitpicky, wrt "why are there no quotes" and stuff like that. I think examining the votepost without the followup clarification where NNR admitted they were unclear is kinda wack too? I know you said the "followup didn't justify it" (rough quote) but why?

Rai's Oarfish vote felt really easy? Like, it feels like a such a given to me that it wasn't going to be today in realtime, so if that's the only reason you put the vote down then I'm not really happy with it. I guess the progression towards unvoting is believable enough but also kinda null. Cut: not big on the Duskfall vote because I think it frames a couple of posts unnecessarily badly ("due to an assumption on mentality" is weird because uh, Mafia is all about making assumptions and exploring them from there). Picking on Duskfall's progression on Oarfish is also weird because you also just said "but Oarfish's posts look better later" (roughly) without elaborating. Why is this scummy from Duskfall but not you?

I don't think Abu has answered my old question? Abu, why was NNR's case bad enough to make you unvote Nuxl but not vote NNR? Did you just forget or something? It feels awkward to me.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

I still want Shadoweh to clarify what she meant because I'm very ??? but I think I understand her vote progression a bit better at least.

This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.

As I pointed out before, I think making a vote based on "His scumhunting case is too easy" is a cheap shot and a poor justification and he was riding on raikaria's ass for the remainder of the day, which mostly felt scummy to me.

I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.

zwerdjib · « **Reply #1001 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:46:18 AM »

oh my god just hurry up and kiss

jokes aside i will read the rest of whats to come tomorrow

zwerdjib · « **Reply #1002 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:47:04 AM »

how do i bookmark a post

zwerdjib · « **Reply #1003 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:47:44 AM »

fire truck it ill just open in a new tab

NekoNekoRex · « **Reply #1004 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:50:08 AM »

Quote

I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.

Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?

O4rfish · « **Reply #1005 on:** March 10, 2020, 02:59:20 AM »

I don't think it's that odd to have multiple reads which are also espoused by someone you consider scummy. I do think it's weird to reverse your views with essentially no new information.

sb · « **Reply #1006 on:** March 10, 2020, 03:09:43 AM »

Quote from: NekoNekoRex on March 10, 2020, 02:45:58 AM

So to explain my gut on sb, I think the best place to start is here.This is where the whole crusade against Raikaria started and I kinda hate it and have hated it since this post.

As I pointed out before, I think making a vote based on "His scumhunting case is too easy" is a cheap shot and a poor justification and he was riding on raikaria's ass for the remainder of the day, which mostly felt scummy to me.

I'd also like to point out that its strange his reads have almost completely flipped around since this post halfway into the last day.

If you don't like how I cased Rai then we'll have to agree to disagree, but I said that I reread. My opinions were naturally going to change after that? After reading phase end I decided that Rai was town, we mislynched another townie and someone else I was unsure of flipped town overnight? So yeah I thought my reads were probably dogstrawberries and went back through the reevaluate them. What do you expect?
I talked about why my opinion changed on Oarfish in the reread (talking about what I didn't pick up on before and what I interpreted differently) and also brought up why I thought Rai looked townier based on things he did since I last posted! If you don't want to read that then like ??? I guess I shouldn't be surprised based on how you reacted earlier.

Quote from: NekoNekoRex on March 10, 2020, 02:50:08 AM

Doubly so since he ended D1 saying he completely disagreed with my reads and now he's completely on board with them, even while he was running a vote on me. Kinda weird that someone he does a 180 and agrees with someone he thinks is scum who has held fairly consistent reads through the game?

I am on board with your Oarfish read. I still think Shadoweh is town (despite whatever this is that's going on, this feels similar to Utena and other games where she was annoyed under pressure as town), and I've had a townread on Tommy. I obviously don't think that I'm scum. Don't put words in my mouth.

O4rfish · « **Reply #1007 on:** March 10, 2020, 03:35:31 AM »

sb, when you posted this post, what was the reason for mentioning me specifically?

Serela · « **Reply #1008 on:** March 10, 2020, 03:52:00 AM »

I was already planning on entering today with a vote on shadoweh but now we apparently have soft proof her VT claim was a lie? OH BABY

Anyway we're not hammering Shadoweh immediately so that means I don't actually need to vote her right now, but you can consider my vote there in spirit while I figure out who I think the second scummiest person is. Also pre-emptively RIP Conq tonight 8)

SB casing NNR over a jokevote was my wonderful comedic relief and, I guess I didn't actually make it super clear what my conclusion on the vig claim from Abu was, but it basically came down to "I guess I'm ok with lynching Shadoweh because she's scummy as hell too and the vig -might- be neat if it is real, but it's probably best to just lynch Abu anyway because of the headaches letting him live will result in when he looks so much like scum and he could still be not-town even if he kills someone so, whatever, do people even WANT to actually lynch shadoweh, I'll just post and see what happens"

I mean I don't have to worry about what it means if it turns out Town isn't willing anyway, and drawing up preemptive Shadoweh murder enthusiasm is a plus no matter which way it went, so, I was cool with whatever occurred 8) But man then you guys had to go try and kill RAIKARIA, even Raikaria did, plzzzzzzz. Also I wasn't arguing 'slip semantics' zwerd, I was arguing that it wasn't a slip because your reasoning it couldn't come from Town Raikaria was very logically unsound. Anyway you're already over that, so, moving on

ah right
i have to go reread and figure out who the second scummiest person is still. S I G H

Refa · « **Reply #1009 on:** March 10, 2020, 03:58:16 AM »

Abu lynch makes me depressed TBH. Don't really blame people for going through with it (I'm townreading Raikaria not only because of what he pulled last night but his tone got a lot better to me anyways at that point), but it's also like...nothing like losing a town vig D1! Also Prims. Feel like he was fearkilled as an unlikely doc candidate (people I can most likely see do that in this gamestate are like...Duskfall/Nuxl/SB? I don't know individual MotKers' meta though).

Conq, should I be voting Shadoweh? Did she ever claim that she was VT? Assuming she did, what kind of reads are you getting off her being confirmed scum?

Shadoweh, you mention Duskfall being focused on self preservation at the end of the day. Wasn't he already bothered by Abu? Why do you think his self preservation comes more from town than from scum?

Zwerd, what do you mean by Raikaria's slip? What's that?

Oarfish, where's your head at ATM? Who do you think is most likely to be scum and why?

Nuxl, what's your read on Duskfall?

I don't know who I'm scumreading anymore. Honestly, I went in today thinking "yeah, Shadoweh is probably town and I'm being dumb" after her actions last night, so it's good to know I've just been consistently wrong this game apparently. I'm hyped for another Dormio post at this point honestly.

Serela · « **Reply #1010 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:01:45 AM »

well, let's see, the people who AREN'T potentially on the list:

*Zwerdjib and Raikaria for vaguely similar reasons (<3)
*Conq for very obvious reasons
*Prims because he DIED GOD DAMMIT (and uh I guess abu goes here too)
*Fabloo I would be very surprised to find out is scum at this point, not the strongest town read on here b/c it hasn't been long but I can't imagine I'm revisiting this evaluation anytime particularly soon
*Oh, me, it's me, I'm next :D

OK so that's 7 out of the 17 players, what's left

Lurkers:
*Dan, Niektory too unpresent to form an actual opinion
*NNR is doing better on this so far!!

No Real Opinion:
*Nuxl, Dormio - reading you people comprehensively is exhausting through either volume or post restriction and i dread doing it eventually
*Duskfall - only showed up at end of d1 where my priorities were already abu and shadoweh, need to reread
*O4rfish - ...I don't know how to evaluate this play

Questionable:
*Refa's jump onto the Rai wagon really rubbed me the wrong way and I need to iso them to follow up on this
*Shadoweh because of everything I said yesterday and also CONQ APPARENTLY FINDING OUT SHE LIED ABOUT HER ROLE?

did I miss anyone
oh i missed sb
well it's midnight so i'll do that tomorrow.
o hi refa c:

Shadoweh · « **Reply #1011 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:07:50 AM »

Quote from: Conqueror on March 10, 2020, 02:37:21 AM

Also smh are you just ignoring I have a result on you?

Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.

Quote

I never said Abu was clearly faking so you're proving you never read my posts at all. Even with that:
This would have only applied if Abu was really a town vig. What if Mafia Abu shot Town Duskfall with the nightkill? Would he be confirmed? This is also ignoring that most people don't want to be shot. I get that the self-preservation was skeevy but like...most town would also want to self-preserve in that situation even if they thought Abu might be town. And if they don't think he's town, why let him live at all?

No, you just said that you've seen mafia claim vig to get 'one more day' before, which tbh is a reasonable thing to think. I just think there would have been more pushback if it was actually a fakeclaim. If mafia shot duskfall with the nightkill there would have been one kill instead of two, Conq plz. It seemed pretty obvi to me that the mafia weren't going to kill Duskfall on their own. I think if Duskfall were town he would have tried to get Abu not to shoot him instead of driving the wagon and making ideas of leashing him long after Abu's lynch was super happening.

Refa · « **Reply #1012 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:09:29 AM »

NGL, my prediction is that scum is going to townread Fabloo because it'd be too annoying to case him based off of that large block of text.

TBH Serela scumreading me will probably help me get a better read on the slot so that'll be fun (especially because I'm mixed on it myself). Defending myself is going to be boring, but what can you do?

I don't know how relevant this will be but I've definitely liked Conq's tone in all of his D2 posts, especially where he explains the lynch because SAME TBH? Like, I'm more ambivalent about Duskfall and Serela NOW but I didn't have that information at the time and both of the active wagons felt like decent lynches to me.

Oarfish is a weird read to me because it feels like people are consistently scumreading him for like...something I'm sure, but I don't remember what he's done since early on in the game.

Refa · « **Reply #1013 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:10:57 AM »

Shadoweh, you should totally answer this.

"Shadoweh, you mention Duskfall being focused on self preservation at the end of the day. Wasn't he already bothered by Abu? Why do you think his self preservation comes more from town than from scum?"

O4rfish · « **Reply #1014 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:11:41 AM »

My head is at: everyone is scum.
People who defend me are scum.
People who attack me are scum.
People who lurk are scum.

Conq might not be scum, since he's doing what he loves. But if Shadoweh is really low-energy, she might be letting him bus her.
I still don't know why you and Duskfall think Prims was thought to be PR.

I don't know how many people are scum in a 17-player game with a town vigilante, and at this point it seems like too many.

Oh, and of course I still think the case on Abu was good, and Prims still seems scummy. But those were proven wrong.

Refa · « **Reply #1015 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:12:04 AM »

Er, you half answered it but I'm curious about the part where he was already scumreading Abu.

Conqueror · « **Reply #1016 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:12:54 AM »

Quote from: Shadoweh on March 10, 2020, 04:07:50 AM

Yes? What did you expect me to do, I'm Vanilla. If you actually had a result on me something would be terribly wrong.

zzz maybe I was too obvious. Will think about your reaction and look at the rest of the thread after I finish dailies.

I don't have a result, the rest of you lazy bastards can go back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Quote from: Shadoweh on March 10, 2020, 04:07:50 AM

If mafia shot duskfall with the nightkill there would have been one kill instead of two, Conq plz. It seemed pretty obvi to me that the mafia weren't going to kill Duskfall on their own. I think if Duskfall were town he would have tried to get Abu not to shoot him instead of driving the wagon and making ideas of leashing him long after Abu's lynch was super happening.

Will also think about and respond to this later but in the mafia!abu and town!duskfall scenario it would absolutely be worth it for abu to nk duskfall and the missing kill could be explained away by other prs.

Refa · « **Reply #1017 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:13:45 AM »

Quote from: O4rfish on March 10, 2020, 04:11:41 AM

My head is at: everyone is scum.
People who defend me are scum.
People who attack me are scum.
People who lurk are scum.

Conq might not be scum, since he's doing what he loves. But if Shadoweh is really low-energy, she might be letting him bus her.
I still don't know why you and Duskfall think Prims was thought to be PR.

Cool story bro.

PR? What's that?

Conqueror · « **Reply #1018 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:16:07 AM »

Refa that should answer your questions.
Yes, she claimed Vanilla on D1 for no reason which was ???
I wanted to try this but maybe I was too heavy handed. Will think about what it means and make a bigger post later.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #1019 on:** March 10, 2020, 04:18:58 AM »

I CLAIMED VANILLA YESTERDAY WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ME TO DO, SAY I CHANGED MY MIND AND WAS A VOYEUR THAT WENT TO PRIMS'S HOUSE FOR COOKIES OR SOMETHING?

Also you were obviously BULLYING ME because you like seeing my tears :angrydeersneer:

You can say that but then we would have just lynched Abu, because when someone openclaims a shot you don't just say 'oh maybe mafia had brain damage and shot the same person you said you were killing in thread'