Neo Forum Mafia - Game Over

[zwerdjib]

I stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.

 The meta part I'll admit is pretty muddled by me trying to catch up and isn't as solid. That was the only part I tried to justify in my post (admittedly poorly)

You just labeling me as 'scum lean' and not actually saying anything about it except in retrospect is not good and you're being confusing by both saying my post is good and it isn't.
It does make sense, I just don't want to go pull quotes again from the 300 post hell that is pages 1-7 40 posts per page

and no, it isn't a "wagon hop", it was based off my own opinion? As I said, you wordlessly hopping to vote me is, in fact, a wagon hop right after oarfish.

> I stand by it. He's made posts multiple times being cryptic and not open about his reads, which is bad. Dodging questions about reads like from Oarfish asking (I think? Player not accurate for sure) telling them to 'go back and read me' is really lame and feels scummy.

okay this is exactly what you said in your OP. this is what i disliked. you didnt substantiate this at all with any evidence and i didnt see evidence myself (and quite frankly, i think youre wrong about the way youre going about this), and this is exactly why i asked for quotes.

also, wrt the dodging questions, ill look into that briefly after i press the "post" button and get back to you on that

> You just labeling me as 'scum lean' and not actually saying anything about it except in retrospect is not good and you're being confusing by both saying my post is good and it isn't.

youre a scum lean based on the faulty logic youre using here. also, i never said the OP was good, the good part was when you actually explained it. with quotes. in a later post.

>  The meta part I'll admit is pretty muddled by me trying to catch up and isn't as solid. That was the only part I tried to justify in my post (admittedly poorly)

im putting this after because this is literally the admission that your OP was weird reasoning. with nothing to show for it. i dont see whats confusing about my argument here

> and no, it isn't a "wagon hop", it was based off my own opinion? As I said, you wordlessly hopping to vote me is, in fact, a wagon hop right after oarfish.

looking at you as a scum player, combined with the OP that i found very strange and the fact that you decide to vote nuxl after reading less than half of the thread, im gonna call you out on wagon hopping lol

[zwerdjib]

I'm going to be real I haven't played mafia in like 6(? memory is hard) years so the prospect that people are actually trying is making me regret this something fierce, but I believe I've already made that implicit in my first post. I entered this game with the impression that it'd be ridiculously slow.

On the other hand, I have like 3 free hours right now, let's see if I remember how to play this eSport again.

##unvote
##Vote: Dormio

Hello there.
What is your stance on nuxl, since I take it you have him and zwerd in the same 'unimpressive' negative connotation boat. Do you agree with what Sir Touhou said about them? Or what sb's said in deference to Sir Touhou's read (and how sb doesn't scumread nuxl off of that). Why are you sitting on your zwerd vote, adding little other than you're still not impressed by then, and then bemoan about the arguing of metagaming (which, while at one point I would agree with you, page 10 is well after that point)?

Basically I'm saying there's a lot of content going around, specifically involving discussion of zwerd and nuxl by other players and you're handwaving it entirely as metagame talk. I think that's lazy at best?

While we're at it.
Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?

By the way, why was that convincing enough for you to change your vote, @zwerd? Do you think what raik had done (or failed to do) awards pressure?

---well, beans.

Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.


--
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)

I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Hi Dormio! Sup? Do you still think of zwerd as scummy? Would you agree with NNR's reasons?


This post ended up as a stream of consciousness wall of text and I hate how it looks but I'm hitting post anyways.

considering how messy this post is i wont bother to cut it tympole

no offense but lmao

thing 1) anyway, i voted raikaria because i knew the nnr wagon wouldnt get anywhere at the time, so itd be pointless to keep my vote there. and serela had a pretty decent point; at least if i voted raikaria we could get something out of it

thing 2) yes i am a washed ex-mafia player do not mind if i powerscum and take this town by the balls and win with a flawless game after all i am very clueless and old and boomer and havent played mafia in years

i think thats all of the things

[zwerdjib]

{
        cout <<(Statement10)
        cout <<(Statement11)
        cout <<(Statement12)
        cout <<(Statement13)
}
My current opinion of (Nuxl) is that, whilst I disagree with how he's playing, I feel that (Nuxl) is at least making a genuine effort to play the game in accordance with his logic. Also, lazy is my middle name. If I didn't still think of (zwerdjib) as being scummy, I would have moved my vote over to (O4rfish). I'm in a privileged position where I don't actually have to read any of (NekoNekoRex)'s posts and I fully intend to make use of this privilege.

WHY DIDNT YOU DO THIS BEFORE

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

define Statement14
{
        Because I didn't want to.
}
if (Reply #332)
{
        cout <<(Statement14)
}
Because I didn't want to.

[zwerdjib]

laziness is a sin

[zwerdjib]

also afterthought

stop making me want to impose a ridiculous post restriction for the hell of it

[NekoNekoRex]

Sup! Do you have... opinions on anyone else.

given the giant Mass of posts I honestly don't want to read before I started posting, not many yet. (Although I might go back and read some later when I'm feeling less fatigued)

--
Apparently you do.
fire truck me I write slow.
NNR you opened your reasons for voting nuxl with... 'I don't like them. meta bad.", which some would argue is neutral. And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)
You also reasoned nuxlvote was not a confident vote in #317 but it's better than not voting... and now your vote stands on somebody that called that a wagon hop.
Do you think zwerd and nuxl are in cahoots and trying to pull one over us, washed up ex-mafia players? (please don't answer that)

I don't know what to this of this rn, tbh.
---

Putting it that way, I could see that being valid. I believe I stated strongly before my opinions on Nuxl prior to and during my vote on him

##Vote: Nuxl I don't like them. Meta reads are bad. Not being open about reads is scummy. Dodging questions is scummy. I've seen a lot of all of that from them so far.

So it's a vote that might be incorrect without me reading the other half of the game I wasn't participating in, but for sure I thought what I had read was scummy, and reading more of his posts wouldn't make me think the initial ones were any less scummy.

On the other hand the meta part is the only part I admit I fire trucked up on, or might not have as clear as I initially did, mostly due to mis-reading. Not gonna refute that.

as for other reads, I'm mostly starting from when I started posting so not a lot yet. there is simply too much to read. i thought Dormio's vote on Oar felt like a pretty solid catch.

[O4rfish]

Dormio I take issue with your characterization of my posts, especially since you wrote "How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?" and "This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read."
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched. 

Shadoweh get in here and put a serious vote on someone

[O4rfish]

An addendum: I have won exactly 1 (one) game of Mafia, and that was due to a blatant scumslip which I jumped on.

[zwerdjib]

Dormio I take issue with your characterization of my posts, especially since you wrote "How is that, despite there being 10 pages worth of posts, there are so few posts with actual content to go through?" and "This huge playerlist and the large influx of meaningless posts is making this thread really hard to read."
I have attempted to explain why this environment is actually anti-town, and thus the players most directly responsible for this (Zwerdjib and Nuxl) should either change their behavior or be lynched. 

Shadoweh get in here and put a serious vote on someone

yknow your point is invalid if you dont explain it. would you like to pull examples of posts that "are filler content" and "create an anti-town environment"?

if not, im sorry im online for 12 hours a day for a game i found interest in.

but seriously, explain yourself

[Serela]

Hey @Serela why do you think raikaria is worth putting pressure votes on rn. Why do you think they're more worth pursuing for low content than niektory which you've admitted could be newb scum by your standards? And why did it take you getting prodded by nuxl to actually be bothered to vote raikaria? What?

What? When did I make any comment on niektory? The only emotion I have towards niektory is pity for their poor soul that this is their first mafia game apparently. A 17 member nightmare mashup of eimm players and motk washups who haven't had to play REAL BOY MAFIA for 5 years

First of all, I was still in the middle of rereading during those multiple posts. I was planning to make one big post, but, upon realizing that the new posts were going "WHY HASN'T SERELA POSTED YET, SERELA LOOKIN' PRETTY SCUMMY" I decided to just post what I had and continue rereading and do more posts after. (which I stated pretty clearly during said posts yay)

In other words, I had not changed my vote yet because I wasn't done rereading the game. And, honestly, I'm not that invested in the Raikaria vote unless their new content isn't very inspiring, but it just came down to the fact that... I kept rereading and I wasn't seeing anything else interesting. So, I went ahead and dropped my vote on the one person who did manage to arise some level of suspicion. My previous vote had been an rvs jokevote (random vote stage) so even a lukewarm pressure vote was superior.

OK MOVING ON

NNR "scumslipping" and the ensuing wagon was hilarious and also about as airtight as my new computer case (which has porous mesh for the entire topside? what the what? man what have I been doing for the last 12 years) and what amazes me is that somehow this turned into an actual, serious vote by Zwerdjib aka zeep. Now, obviously, the vote isn't really about that anymore (at least I sure hope not), but over... a weird wagon hop? I mean, NNR provided three clear reasons, even if he didn't go to the point of grabbing lots of quotes and references yet.

And you're now saying the meta part was muddled and shifted your reasoning for voting him from how dodgy/cryptic he was. (which you explained after your vote, mind)

...ah, and this is just plain wrong. I mean, unless you interpret 'which you explained after you vote' as 'in the sentence after the vote, in the same post the vote is in'.

I'm trying to evaluate between overzealous town going after a slip a bit too hard or mafia digging their claws in, but honestly it's 2am right now and my brain is dying after doing a lot more computer set up stuff. I need to go to bed and re-eval in the morning zzzzzz

xinny looks nice so far hello good day <3 (oh wait good night) (wait no that comes across wrong)

i tried to look into dormio's vote on o4rfish because I thought the case actually sounded kind of interesting in hindsight but then I couldn't find the vote... and then I started wondering if I'm starting to imagine things and you know what YEP IT'S TIME TO GO TO BED I WILL BE BACK TOMORROW TO ADMINISTER YOUR DAILY DOSE OF SERELA

[zwerdjib]

NNR "scumslipping" and the ensuing wagon was hilarious and also about as airtight as my new computer case (which has porous mesh for the entire topside? what the what? man what have I been doing for the last 12 years) and what amazes me is that somehow this turned into an actual, serious vote by Zwerdjib aka zeep. Now, obviously, the vote isn't really about that anymore (at least I sure hope not), but over... a weird wagon hop? I mean, NNR provided three clear reasons, even if he didn't go to the point of grabbing lots of quotes and references yet.

come on. i cant be the only one who sees how fire trucking weird his reasoning is when you compare it to what hes accusing nuxl of

[O4rfish]

Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything.  Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"

would you like to pull examples of posts that "are filler content" and "create an anti-town environment"?

https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1130#msg1130
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg927#msg927
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg896#msg896
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg820#msg820

[zwerdjib]

Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything.  Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"

https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1130#msg1130
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg927#msg927
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg896#msg896
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg820#msg820

cool. but filler posts like these are still the vast minority of my posts.

i hope you see the issue with what youre saying now

[Shadoweh]

I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh

[Tom]

// ~ Out of context, just a little organizational thing ~
// Topic unstickied, stickies should be reserved for Quest Guides or Resources, not the quests themselves.  Mafia games tend to be really active so their threads will naturally stay on top anyways.

[O4rfish]

No, Shadoweh, that doesn't line up with what you said earlier. 
Also you haven't actually made a good case on anyone.

##Vote: Shadoweh

[Conqueror]

Actually, I think it's kind of weird Conq showed up just now but didn't contribute anything.  Out of these players, he's the person I most associate with "skilled Mafia player"

you flatter me! tbh i was planning on sleeping and then posting in the morning but ill make a quick post rn i guess

[Refa]

I am seriously voting someone and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh

Wait, can you explain why you think he'd act like this as mafia over town?

[Conqueror]

my brain is melting already but i think im caught up. a fair number of people need to make updated votes before i can really say come to any conclusion about them and i cant name them all because it's >half the game.

Don't really have a strong lynch opinion when I probably should but I think my vote is functionally useless right now so whatever

Eh, do you have anywhere you're leaning? By the time you see this post there's probably only going to be 24 hours left to deadline and your only vote will have been the 0-poster. and your stated reads will have been zwerd okay, conq okay, some other slots okay too. you were talking about pressure so im curious where you want to apply it because i reskimmed your iso and you're not really pressuring anywhere, just feeling stuff out and discussing some reads.
i have another thought related to this but it can probably wait until nuxl replies or it becomes relevant.

Self-reminder to digest Serela's stuff tomorrow. I don't actually dislike the Raikaria vote though, could see myself going there as well for similar reasons.

re: the reason i was voting shadoweh was because she's been pretty floaty so far [throwing out a few reads is easy enough for shadoweh as both alignments so I've been poking her until she gives something more readable] and her vote right now still feels kinda floaty to me tbh. shadoweh which part of prims' posts come across as potential posturing?

zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.

[zwerdjib]

Wait, can you explain why you think he'd act like this as mafia over town?

oh, can you translate what shadoweh is saying? ive read her posts about 5 times and i still dont understand what they mean honestly

[Conqueror]

what's difficult to read about her posts? it's not like she posts much and they're short and sweet.

[zwerdjib]

zeep ive been reading your response to nnr and i still cant parse your response, although it could be because im tired. could you summarize it in a readable format because im not getting what you're saying atm.

Hmm. okay. give me about 15 mins. busy in game rn

[zwerdjib]

what's difficult to read about her posts? it's not like she posts much and they're short and sweet.

THE ENGLISH

IT KILLS ME

[Conqueror]

unironically get good, there are at least 5 people with more difficult to read posting styles, probably more.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?

[Conqueror]

##unvote
##vote raikaria
yeah im sheeping serela :o

shadoweh should still pretend my vote is on her but i wanted to try this before i sleep

[zwerdjib]

unironically get good, there are at least 5 people with more difficult to read posting styles, probably more.
while you're here, is there anyone else you'd vote other than nnr?

not about formatting, about what shes saying. language doesnt connect with me. feels like trying to translate html into english. without a professional.

and im trying to work out who *not* to vote at this point. might have more insight into that if i understood a goddamn thing shadoweh was saying

[Conqueror]

not about formatting, about what shes saying. language doesnt connect with me. feels like trying to translate html into english. without a professional.

and im trying to work out who *not* to vote at this point. might have more insight into that if i understood a goddamn thing shadoweh was saying

does that mean you scumread most people or?
i seriously dont understand what about shadoweh's posts are hard to read, can you point out an example or something

unrelated but while reading serela's posts i saw someone asking him why not niektory instead of raikaria and my personal answer so that is that raikaria slot can actually be pressured to post, plus he has the capability to actually post decent content so his current posts are worse given his skill level. hopefully niektory shows up soon though, i imagine they're probably overwhelmed regardless of their alignment.

[Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Touhou]

Honestly I've yet to not at least somewhat disagree with a post about gameplay theory in this thread but I don't really want to get involved in these discussions until postgame since I find them distracting.

Serela... the closest you have to a suspicion on a player who has posted content is your paragraph of O4rfish where you immediately defend him from the line of reasoning you figured out. How am I supposed to tell if this is town you sincerely struggling to get a reads or scum you struggling to find reasons to vote any of the clearly townie townies?

FWIW I did think O4rfish's "what scum want is to run out the clock" speech was awkward and I'm not sure what brought Shadoweh over zwerdjib and Nuxl in his priorities recently.

Niektory hasn't really done anything and is getting away with it. Don't understand why they voted NNR for not voting yet here; lots of people hadn't made serious votes at that time, @Niektory what made you decide to vote NNR? I don't want to D1 powerwagon the new guy on their first game but yeah, this slot will need a lot more pressure on D2.

Not particularly interested in a Shadoweh wagon but won't defend her as long as she's voting me. you reap what you sow
We don't have any real wagons other than her though. I'm OK consolidating on Nuxl. If this really is just his playstyle then it seems to... not... get... results.....???? Which doesn't seem right because I thought he was a generally respected player. Still think even with his views on how to play the game he should seem more pro-active if a town, instead of his focus going mostly into gameplay theory and the social aspects of the game. I think he should be held to a higher standard.

@Nuxl: since you claim to not have scumreads, what lynches would you be most interested in seeing today? That may be a better way of phrasing it.
@NNR:

especially since he threatens to retaliate people who vote him.

When did Nuxl do this...? Tbh I thought your push there was not great but in the sense that it seems like you made it because you weren't really paying attention while reading, which is basically what you said. plz read more :(

Dan, Duskfall and Raikaria are all still effective noshows content-wise. tbh I don't mind consolidating on Raikaria either. It's good to kill the low content guys (especially bad post:content ratio guys).
Lots of people look slightly bad to me but nobody looks extremely bad. Such is D1 I suppose. Will ##Unvote, ##Vote: Raikaria because I want there to be a wagon supporting me while I sleep. Bad post:content ratio is my issue with almost all the people who look slightly bad but at least you can say Serela and Nuxl have made time to try while they were around?

I remember Refa asked me something about zwerdjib, will have to get back to him on that.

[zwerdjib]

does that mean you scumread most people or?
i seriously dont understand what about shadoweh's posts are hard to read, can you point out an example or something

unrelated but while reading serela's posts i saw someone asking him why not niektory instead of raikaria and my personal answer so that is that raikaria slot can actually be pressured to post, plus he has the capability to actually post decent content so his current posts are worse given his skill level. hopefully niektory shows up soon though, i imagine they're probably overwhelmed regardless of their alignment.

a) no. it just means i think its more efficient to create a poe then reevaluate with each lynch

b) ok one sec

I am seriously voting someone (who is someone? why no name?) and although I feel bad for voting him I think he legit might be mafia posturing (posturing ill-defined) so :Thonk:
Maybe I should vote Nuxl because it would make it easier for everyone else (what would be easier???) but 'fun' is probably a bad metric to vote by (WHERE IS FUN MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE POST???)
reading this thread makes me incredibly sleepy tbh (oh cool a sentence/fragment/thing that makes sense)