Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)

[raikaria]

Hopefully some of what I've said acts as fuel for the engines of this game to start up again. It feels like this game needs an awful lot of fuel to propel things through these choppy seas.

[raikaria]

Oh yeah and it's 8am here [I got up at like 6am] and I have the day off and got my stuff done in large yesterday.

Dosen't mean I'll be right here in the thread constantly but I will be around if people want to poke me about stuff today is probably the best time.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Except I gave a basic reads list and even somewhat ordered my priority towards the end of Day 1? Or is a list of who I'd rather lynch not a 'basic reads list'. Opinions are reads.

I'm not sure what your obsession with reads lists is. I personally do not think we should give *full* read lists because it creates a town consensus as to who is town. This; in turn, paints massive targets on their backs saying 'SHOOT HERE'.

I REALLY do not like this stance; and it has basically removed my prior townread on Zoomy.

Tbh most of my behaviour regarding reads lists and that following Dormio onto Zwerd has been because getting any headway in any direction for anything has felt like an absolute chore. Town aren't playing and as a result aren't working together or being a cohesive unit. Dormio has been tunneling on Zwerd since D1, Bard's been tunneling Serela since D1, Nucleus has been on Yaer mostly since D1 etc... basically everyone is only working on one target and there's almost no two people wanting to work together on any target. The Abu lynch happened as I mentioned as a result of everyone thinking it was ok but not a priority and deadline pressure was looming. I don't really feel like I'm being listened to and I am struggling quite hard to have any sway anymore, we're all playing different games right now and half the players aren't showing up to the party. I'm prodding for reads lists to both have something that's easy to follow up on (because then you can ask why and dig deeper into reasons) and also to break up the tunneling, although at this point nobody is really listening anymore... ugh. Plus getting more fleshed out reads is better to look into connections after more flips happen.

Basically I'm reaching a point where I am feeling like I have to compromise onto my lesser scumreads just to actually get things moving again and no amount of stoking up discussion feels like it's working either. People aren't talking and if they are they're largely tunneling or saying very little about more than 3 people.

And also I thought it was a basic reads list and when I said that you corrected me calling it a "consolidation list" so I mean, that's on you? But I get what you're trying to say about it all. This point is more a matter of taking the words too literally at the end of the day.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Ok, I'm still not happy with your slot (epsecially considering I've been on your ass all game about getting reads and opinions out more and you turn up with a post that culminates in one big Zwerd = scum read and...little else other than apparently thinking I'm no longer a town-read).
But if you want to have a dialogue, let's do it. I'm open for questioning, maybe we can fuel the game's fires together. I really want this game to have activity again.

[raikaria]

One slot I'm quite curious about is actually Meow.

It's a low-activity slot; but of all the low-activity slots, I feel that his slot is actually the most town-leaning. While he's not done much, I think what he has posted has been the most interesting. Contrast Year who's mostly just been prodding people.

Also as I've said a few times before; it's kind of hard to have reads with nothing to base those reads on.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Can you walk me through that distinction between the two, I know I asked why meow is better than Yaer to Dormio earlier as well and he came up with

Mostly because simply poking and prodding without following up to make it look as though you have some suspicions and are participating is scummier than not existing at all.
Like I feel that it's a really disingenuous way to make it look as though you're trying to scumhunt when, in reality, you aren't actually doing anything of significance at all.

Which is a fair point though I didn't fully agree with Yaer not doing much about his prodding (because I felt like he was clearly using his vote for pressure along with it). Do you share this mindset too?
What are you finding interesting in particular about what meow's posting?

Just off the top of my head though both Yaer and Meow have kind of felt like they're going tit for tat at each other this entire day phase and I feel like they're both genuine and coming from more towny perspectives? Although the low activity really puts a damper on my read for meow. Let me read through him again now I guess.

[raikaria]

zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.

It's posts such as this one, where he is actively questioning multiple players. It feels like he's not just poking people to do something but actively attempting to advance the gamestate.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Ok for the sake of ease of reading along, here are literally all of meow's posts in the game up to this point.

Spoiler:

Welp, here we go.

Absolutely nothing bad is going to happen, right guys? Right?

How is nuking everybody detrimental to North Korea again?

zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?

But you were in the thread before I was and never brought it up?

DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Alpha
Here's my Unofficial Votals™.

NucleusWaffles (5) - Yaersulf, Bardiche, NucleusWaffles, Serela, Daiya (L-2)
Daiya (2) - Dormio, zwerdjib
Serela (0) -
Beru (0) -
zwerdjib (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Chihiro Fujisaki (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (5) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Chihiro Fujisaki, Abu

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


[ Expired ]

I think zwerdjib is a town lean for me. Methinks that if scum!zwerdjib had specifically planned to make town massclaim then they would've asked for it immediately instead of waiting.

By the way, has anyone seen beru? They haven't spoken since DEFCON 5.

Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.

Well, other obligations took longer than I expected. Sorry.

I'll be around until deadline, so I can hammer if necessary.

Town

Zoomy Tsugumi
zwerdjib
Dormio
Raikaria
Serela
Daiya
Beru
Abu
NucleusWaffles
Bardiche
Yaersulf

Scum

##Vote: Abu

zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.

Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.

I guess my conclusions from these posts are that there's been very little pushes of substance on either D1 or D2.
Although I think I'm reading an earnesty in the pokes and prods enough to read it as a newbie town who is finding it hard to follow up reliably and make pushes readily in the first place. The Zwerd townread feels like an organic conclusion as you follow the posts, as well as some of the other scumreads they've brought forth, even though some of them kinda come out of nowhere the reasons given make sense if I were to put myself in meow's shoes.

CUT: Yeah I can agree with that. I think I'm comfortable townreading Meow now. Let me look into Yaer next

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dormio; I'm gonna have to agree with Zwerd on one matter: You are tunnelling. You've said little~nothing about any other player. Can you please comment on some other matters as well as voting for Zwerd? I'm not asking you to change votes or anything, I'm just simply asking for you to do something other than tunnel Zwerd.

You mean literally this post?

People that don't really exist:
Daiya - For what it's worth, I think the few actual content posts they've made are actually okay, so I'm not really looking too hard here unless something egregious happens to jump out at me.
beru - Consists of pretty much entirely non-content posts. Is also replacing out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bardiche - Similar to Daiya, the few posts he has don't really bother me so it's a slot that is there.
Yaersulf - Doesn't exist outside of just poking and prodding at a few people and then disappearing. If we were consolidating on a lurker lynch, this is the one that I'd go for.
Meow56 - Doesn't exist.

People that do exist:
Dormio - This is me.
zwerdjib - This is scum.
NuclearWaffles - This is probably the SK.
Serela - Flailing around in typical Serela fashion, his D1 posts looked pretty bad. D2 looks like he's actually putting effort into the game but this is a slot that I'm keeping my eye on.
raikaria - I was going to say that this one seems sane, but Zoomy Tsugumi brings up a good point about this slot in their latest post. This is another slot to keep an eye on, I suppose.
Zoomy Tsugumi - This one seems sane.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Oh hang on I think I found something big on Yaer?
Here's every post of Yaer's pertaining to Zwerd in some manner.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure what to do here, other people seem to have the zwerdjib angle covered, and while it's really easy to just poke Nucleus and have weird seemingly incriminating words come out I'm not sure how much that's worth doing before it just becomes redundant noise.

Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words.

Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

And what do people in general think about how sure Nucleus seems to be that Raikaria is town, do you think that means anything?

Ok yeah that's fair, I suppose it'd be more accurate to revise that to "I agree that zwerdjib looks suspicious, but not as suspicious as Nucleus, and I'm not sure what I could contribute to the case on him that more experienced players aren't already doing better than I could." And as for me thinking nobody really looks suspicious other than those two, I've tried rereading and looking for stuff but if there's something there I'm missing it, though I'm not even too sure what it is I'm supposed to be looking for. This is only my second game so I'm still not sure exactly what scuminess looks like at this point in the game. Except in obvious cases like Nucleus.

Elaborate please Zwerd.

You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

I'd like to call attention to the fact that Abu hasn't answered my request for his opinions on people. Seeing as I haven't done the same I'll do so so that my request isn't so hypocritical.

DTL(Down to Lynch): Abu, Nuclearwaffles, Beru
Got my eye on you >_>: Zwerdjib, Meow
Not sure: Serela, Raikaria, Daiya, Bardiche
Team Systemic Racism(A.K.A 'Murica, A.K.A Town): Dormio, Zoomy Tsugumi

Oh yeah I didn't mention him because not much has changed regarding the Zwerdjib situation, but he's definitely still suspicous and worth considering.

The things that struck me as odd about your reads list were Bard and I being your top scumreads, over say Abu and Beru. I can understand me being a scumread, but not a top scumread if that makes sense. Also Zwerdjib being so high.

As for your reasoning, there's no way you could know this so it's not like I'm saying your reasoning is flawed but, I'm never confident. It's a problem.

And Dormio, I'm not saying he's scum and we should lynch him or anything. Just throwing out a wild crackpot theory. Though I do think we should keep an eye on him. But then again we should probably keep an eye on everyone. As the wisemen say, trust nobody not even yourself.

I'm liking this lynch Zwerd idea, he's definitely in my top 3 for most lynchable.

Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

Either way
##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Actually I guess with the existence of the SK scum can't be sure who is definitely town so uh this probably means buddies?

[raikaria]

You mean literally this post?

I probably should have elaborated that I wanted a little more... uh... detail if possible.

Oh hang on I think I found something big on Yaer?
Here's every post of Yaer's pertaining to Zwerd in some manner.

Spoiler:

Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

Either way
##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf

Question: If you think Yaer's alignment is connected to that of Zwerd; what makes Yaer a superior lynch to Zwerd?

I mean I guess Yaer has been overall less active but Zwerd has just kind of stopped being useful too ever since maybe Late Day 1?

[raikaria]

I probably should have elaborated that I wanted a little more... uh... detail if possible.

Note: I appreciate there's a lot of players who don't have much content to give detail on.

I think the one I'd like to hear most about your opinion on is Serela; since I myself am having a difficult time with that slow; and your opinion seems to be shifting over time on Serela.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Question: If you think Yaer's alignment is connected to that of Zwerd; what makes Yaer a superior lynch to Zwerd?

I mean I guess Yaer has been overall less active but Zwerd has just kind of stopped being useful too ever since maybe Late Day 1?

I mean tbh I made the vote with more confidence because I didn't make the immediate connection in my next post of the existence of the SK clouding the idea of scum knowing people are outright town. Hence the idea that Yaer is the one with more info prevailed until I countered my own thought right after lol, I am still happy with a Zwerd lynch.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Sorry it's not an SK its an ITP oof, getting my terms mixed up

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Oh yeah I guess another point to bolster my case is that Yaer's never even specified what things he finds suspicious at Zwerd either, it's always left ambiguous.

[Serela]

holy strawberries when I went to bed there had only been 3 posts since mine

[Serela]

Looking over Yaer, I think he kind of falls into the same boat as Zwerd for me where I think the d1 makes sense from them as town but d2 just kind of goes downhill from there. That being said, I'd still prioritize the zwerdjib lynch over yaer's.

No one's interested in Bard today so I'm fine with shifting my votes from 1. Bard and "if I had a second vote" on Zwerd, to the other way around.

##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib

Also uh, if I'm reading timestamps right, Bard literally hasn't posted in 42 hours. Are people sure they aren't interested in voting there today

[zwerdjib]

I see.

##vote yaersulf

Lynch this and trust me.

[Serela]

uh

it's not like voting yaersulf is the wrong move in your situation since he's the clear counterwagon, but i'm not sure how 'trust me' is supposed to mean something in this context

on a skim of your posts i can't find literally any mention of yaersulf before

[zwerdjib]

uh

it's not like voting yaersulf is the wrong move in your situation since he's the clear counterwagon, but i'm not sure how 'trust me' is supposed to mean something in this context

on a skim of your posts i can't find literally any mention of yaersulf before

i have a relatively big post

it was supposed to be done a while ago but i fell asleep

[zwerdjib]

I see.

##vote yaersulf

Lynch this and trust me.

There's logic here. There's a burning within my soul, awakening the anger within my heart. I've decided to win this game. I'm going to list who I think is scummiest, least to most.

Raikaria.

I'd be genuinely baffled if this man died as anything but a townie. He has clean progressions. He's on Serela levels of thought explanations. He's looking for people who are trying to play to win. Overall, he's an active contributor and one of few who aim to keep the game together.


Zoomy.

Sure, this is an activity read. You're free to bite me. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, being that they're also included in the list of the few people who are trying to keep the game together.


Serela.

Theoretically, Serela should be higher on this list. However, I'm not necessarily certain that they're town.

Looking over Yaer, I think he kind of falls into the same boat as Zwerd for me where I think the d1 makes sense from them as town but d2 just kind of goes downhill from there. That being said, I'd still prioritize the zwerdjib lynch over yaer's.

No one's interested in Bard today so I'm fine with shifting my votes from 1. Bard and "if I had a second vote" on Zwerd, to the other way around.

##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib

Also uh, if I'm reading timestamps right, Bard literally hasn't posted in 42 hours. Are people sure they aren't interested in voting there today

This post is mainly the reason why. It's such an easy wagon hop that I can't help but instinctively read it as bad.


Meow.

He's a lurker, so he automatically loses points. However, I would like to bring up

One slot I'm quite curious about is actually Meow.

It's a low-activity slot; but of all the low-activity slots, I feel that his slot is actually the most town-leaning. While he's not done much, I think what he has posted has been the most interesting. Contrast Year who's mostly just been prodding people.

Also as I've said a few times before; it's kind of hard to have reads with nothing to base those reads on.

...and that's really all.


Nucleus.

I mean, he's playing very strangely regardless of his alignment. I can't read it. Not at all.


Dormio.

Believe it or not, I think he's actually not that scummy. However, if it isn't obvious, his tunneling is grounds for scrutiny, he's only popped in to expand his case on me (rather than his view of the game) and he's not even necessarily that active. Overall, not a good look.


Beru.

What can I even say here? There's no content to judge.


Bardiche.

I mean... he's okay? I can see... a universe where he is town? I don't think he's low efforting because he chooses to? Am I too naive? Is anyone actually opposed to his lynch?


Yaer.

Zoomy, for the most part, has explained this for me. However, I would like to add that, to my memory, this is similar gameplay to his YS game.

^{Dude, is the game really this small?}

[zwerdjib]

I suppose now the question is asked: what next?

We can see if pressuring Yaer will get us anywhere. If he's town, we reevaluate. If he's scum, we look off of the wagon.

Why?

I'm sure almost everyone who's wanted to vote him has literally parked their vote. Whether they're casing him is another story, but from my perspective, anyone who busses him would likely have planned to bus from almost the start. With that said, as another option, we should also be looking on the wagon in dire cases, but past Zoomy's vote. If it really gets to it, I think then we should be looking for a bus. But for now, I think I would like to apply Occam's razor and assume that

- if Yaersulf is Mafia

and

- if Yaersulf is lynched

then

- very likely, his partner was not on the wagon, or he was bussed late.

[zwerdjib]

On an unrelated note, I've realized why I was so demotivated.

It's because the amount of effort I put in is vastly disproportionate to the odds that we win the game.

But I've decided to accept that. Let's accept the future.

[zwerdjib]

After all, gentlemen, Rome wasn't built in a day.

[raikaria]

I'm a little confused. There's been a couple of times during this whole thing where Zwerdjib has turned purple and his attitude has almost seemed to change in these purple parts.

And now he appears, with a different avatar, spewing purple posts and being a whole lot more useful.

This development is intriguing. Purple Zwerdjib appears to be the superior Zwerdjib. If this one sticks around, I don't feel like lynching it.

##Unvote

##Vote: yaersulf

I mean, I've already said he's not particually outstanding. I'm happy to go along with the other active players saying he's scummy, even if I just have him as a lurker slot and see no particular reason to lynch this over Beru. But I guess the Beru slot might just get modkilled.

[zwerdjib]

This is a test. I've accepted this test to stand victorious against my past. A person grows once they are able to defeat their weaker self.

[NekoNekoRex]

Hello. Please do not make votes in alternate colors.

[NekoNekoRex]

DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Mike

Mod edit: this vote count is messed up due to an editing mistake

zwerdjib (2) - Dormio,  Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi
Yaersulf (4) -  NucleusWaffles, zwerdjib, Raikaria, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi
Serela (1) - Bardiche
NucleusWaffles (0) - Yaersulf
Raikaria (0) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (0) - Yaersulf
Bardiche (0) - Serela, Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Daiya, Beru, meow56

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Beru

[meow56]

NNR, you missed a few votes:

##Vote: Yaersulf

Though I am going to immediately ##Unvote to prevent L-1 shenanigans.

##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib

##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf