Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)

[Yaersulf]

Ok so, if I'm reading the rules right, there wasn't supposed to be a NK night one? Or did doctor do a thing?

[Yaersulf]

For the record the bit about the Stealth Bomber was added to NNR's post after I asked that, which I think answers my question.

[Yaersulf]

##Vote:Nucleuswaffles

Hot Take: Nucleus became more coherent and reasonable later in D1 because he was being coached by his scumbuddies.

[Serela]

##Vote:Nucleuswaffles

Hot Take: Nucleus became more coherent and reasonable later in D1 because he was being coached by his scumbuddies.

considering nucleus was my scum buddy last game i don't think this is a very good take

I wouldn't -entirely- mind lynching waffles because I think he's pretty likely to be third party and probably needs to die sooner or later but it's probably better to do it with nukes b/c I don't SUPER think he's scum?

beru is actually replacing out and it seems that it was truly a lack of time and discontent with forum software more than anything else, I guess :T abu is lynched and meow is new so I don't want to just votedrop meow for being the last of the low content matters because it's just a coinflip that we have nukevigs for later if we still need them

...wait, damn, what else is there. Ok c'mere player list. Still not really interested in Dorm or Zwerd, Rai and Zoomy are the townier of the living players, that leaves... Daiya/Yaer/Bard that I need to get on rereading

[Serela]

considering nucleus was my scum buddy last game i don't think this is a very good take

this doesn't go into enough detail in hindsight, but since you were in the last game you probably get what I meant

[Yaersulf]

Yeah I understand what you mean, and you're probably right.

[Yaersulf]

Oh yeah Meow why are Bardiche and I your top scumreads?

[Serela]

Yaer may not be a shining beacon of content but they've been aware of not finding a lot to do and filling that instead by making sure to prod people and ask questions and push for results from people, and they pressured multiple people yesterday while also providing their reads on all players, so for their level of play it's as much as I could expect

Reading Daiya reminds me that this is, indeed, a mafia game, which honestly most people's posts this game leaves me feeling like it's possible to actually forget that fact. I'm biased in their favor just because they're playing way better than half the playerlist including myself. I really like their earlygame, and it continues strong, this slot is probably town. With the overall level of play seen this game it'd be very, very easy for mafia to just not try very hard, especially not as much as Daiya is.

Bardiche tho'. He started fine, but after he voted me, he just kind of... vanished for the next 2~3 days. He made One Post since then, where he said
1.Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them
2.NucleusWaffles sure isn't townie and also sure isn't scummy (even bard loves some delicious waffles i see)
3."daiya why did you townread me"
4.Said Zwerd's posts were kind of empty for how many there were

This isn't -that- bad but this is the entirety of his content for the whole second half of Day 1, and only #4 here is the only one that even requires having done more than lightly skim the thread (barely).

##Vote:Bard

I know you said you wanted to try out lurking this game, but, there's a difference between making 1 decent post a day and lurking to the point it doesn't even seem like you're paying more than the bare minimum of attention to the game.

[Serela]

clarification:bard made one post since then that wasn't a prod dodge

also, another thing about that; his only post(s) for about ~40 hours before the post I linked was his comment on me complaining about pressure and voting me, so about two sentences

like, after ed1 bard's almost nonexistent

[Serela]

my case ended up kind of spread out all over the place so let me summarize:

*Bard looked okay at the very start of defcon3 phase (official d1 start)
*24 hours later:The only thing bard did was comment on not liking my post and votedropping me with no other comments
*24 hours later:Bard makes the post I linked, which I went over more indepth above
*24 hours later:Bard says he lightly skimmed the thread and doesn't see a reason to unvote me, no other comment
*D1 ends

[Serela]

strawberries i forgot to include analysis

point 2 is meh because it was basically a sniper-precision votedrop that ignored the rest of the game, like, in hindsight it just looks like "hey, I found something worth voting, gonna vote it and peace out"
point 3 is meh because he glossed over commenting on me, and gave like half an opinion about a couple other people
point 4 is actively bad because now it's end of d1 and he still has basically nothing to say about the entire game, doesn't comment at all on the ACTUAL consolidation wagons, glosses over me again, and he pretty much admits he didn't really read the thread despite deadline coming up, literally just voteparking on his ED1 vote with no comment given on the case since he made it and ignoring the rest of the game even though my wagon didn't really go anywhere

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Idk I'm kind of bothered today because I feel like mostly everyone is suspicious on some form or another
But ok, I'm with you Serela on feeling good about Daiya and Yaer.
Yesterday I wasn't really seeing Bard-scum but idk, I can be convinced today and I agree that his passivity is concerning. I think I'd rather prod him to give many more thoughts first though.

Really I'm just paranoid of almost everyone and would like to sort things out better today. I should've done more (read: any) legwork during the night to read up and see maybe if any connections can be drawn from the Abu flip but at the same time I don't have much hope in that line of thought since, well, nobody really cared about a barely-there player.

EoD1 sucked and I'm unhappy with how it went down in hindsight. I am bothered with how it felt kind of too easy to shift votes? But maybe that was also a product of running almost to deadline... ugh this is hard.

[raikaria]

I'm awake. Got work soon. So this is essentially a prod dodge until I'm back from work later.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here, he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever.
When I reiterate yet again, he refuses to provide any clarification. Again.
He also just sheeps Zoomy religiously. Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here, he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever.
When I reiterate yet again, he refuses to provide any clarification. Again.
He also just sheeps Zoomy religiously. Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.

I'm very willing and keen to look into this today, but can you also do me a solid and run through some other scumreads you have? You've thrown some shade on Serela, are you still unhappy with them? Why? And is there anyone else?

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I think I'm going to continue to ##Vote:Raikaria
I'm really not understanding the townreads people have on them. Even after their last big post before the end of the day it was still quite non-committal, Daiya really hit the nail on the head here

looking at him, i can agree that his content doesn't have much meat to it. he's rational as usual when it comes to gameplay discussions, and there seems to be a reliance on his meta philosophy, like he's running his basic raikaria script. based on what he said about me and celery, there's easily cases he could've built, but they kind of just went nowhere. not exactly saying that he should've pushed for lynches or anything, but there isn't even a little bit of pressure. so ig i'd like to know what he rly thinks of our slots and why he hasn't done much w/ them. taking him out wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but i think i like a sorelle lynch better atm. his gameplay is practically a 1:1 copy of what i've seen him do as scum: make excuses for not having much content, mix in some game theory, and go for easy lynching

to how I've been feeling with Raik, the play doesn't feel organic and I'm still not sensing the drive to have a voice and figure things out. Their last big post actually has a lot of regurgitated opinions and half assed reads. Calling 9 out of 12 players sus enough to consider lynching feels like a cop out for someone who never went anywhere with their scumreads earlier in the day too. Not to mention that of those 9, the only 3 they really preferred were lurkers and non-contributors. It's really easy pickings.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

To add to my point actually, despite having concerns with 6 of the more active slots, Raik never really extends much effort to discern things from them. It looks to me more like we're witnessing someone playing a passive role and pointing out things to look back later and be like "hey you can see here i said that earlier" as opposed to someone who is pointing out things to drive people to take a look and be like "oh wow you're right they really are suspicious"

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

People that don't really exist:
Daiya - For what it's worth, I think the few actual content posts they've made are actually okay, so I'm not really looking too hard here unless something egregious happens to jump out at me.
beru - Consists of pretty much entirely non-content posts. Is also replacing out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bardiche - Similar to Daiya, the few posts he has don't really bother me so it's a slot that is there.
Yaersulf - Doesn't exist outside of just poking and prodding at a few people and then disappearing. If we were consolidating on a lurker lynch, this is the one that I'd go for.
Meow56 - Doesn't exist.

People that do exist:
Dormio - This is me.
zwerdjib - This is scum.
NuclearWaffles - This is probably the SK.
Serela - Flailing around in typical Serela fashion, his D1 posts looked pretty bad. D2 looks like he's actually putting effort into the game but this is a slot that I'm keeping my eye on.
raikaria - I was going to say that this one seems sane, but Zoomy Tsugumi brings up a good point about this slot in their latest post. This is another slot to keep an eye on, I suppose.
Zoomy Tsugumi - This one seems sane.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Why is Yaer the lurker lynch you'd go for over the others? From the points you raised he seems to be townier than other lurkers like Meow who do little and still end up disappearing constantly.

The rest of the reads are.... underwhelming honestly but it's something that I can work with and I don't think its meh in a way that's scummy, so oh well.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Mostly because simply poking and prodding without following up to make it look as though you have some suspicions and are participating is scummier than not existing at all.
Like I feel that it's a really disingenuous way to make it look as though you're trying to scumhunt when, in reality, you aren't actually doing anything of significance at all.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Ok, that's a fair take, but I'm still not sure it fully applies to Yaer. I think Yaer's been using his vote as a weapon and tool for pressure which is more than you can say for some. I'm willing to bet that it's more a case of newbie town not having developed all the skills necessary to really follow through on the pressure and dig deeper and deeper more than scum pretending to care.

[Yaersulf]

I was just trying to contribute the only way I know how, especially when there's no inforamtion to work with. Poke people until information that other people can use comes out.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Well, there's more information now. Are you going to continue contributing nothing other than pokes and prods?

[Yaersulf]

For right now? Yes, I'm about to fall asleep.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche

Gimme a reads list Bard, I wanna know what you think.

I'll try to make some good words of my own when I wake up.

[raikaria]

I'm not really able to post much in the way of usefulness because my general way of doing things is to look at interactions between people and there's not been much interaction between people this game. At least; not much of any use.

Even flips; which I also use, aren't much use. We lynched Abu. He flipped Town. He had basically no interaction with any other player, and pretty much everyone expressed at least some willingness to lynch him for him being useless.

I mean, I can say it looks bad for anyone who ended up lynching Abu and pushing his wagon hard, but considering most people had him on their lists due to his inactivity, including myself [The only reason I didn't vote Abu was because I thought we were consolidating on Beru. The Abu lynch occurred while I was sleeping], it's really not a good idea to try and push someone just because they lynched a dead slot.

This basically leaves me up the creek; because there's not much interaction or flip/voting based information I can use which is how I usually makes my cases. It's really frustrateing. I can't make cases because there isn't much fuel to fuel a case. I don't like making cases out of desperation and thin air. [Although Ironically I'm often accused of borderline conspiracy theory cases, more often than not I've actually been right or very near right recently so...]

For what it's worth, I don't get why people are townreading me either. I've not really done much of any use.

I do find Serela's vote on Bard interesting, because I previously had the feeling that while he'd posted little; it was generally town-based, which is why I expressed I didn't want to consolidate on him. Perhaps my Bard townread was because a lot of his points I generally agreed on. I mean, I'm kinda biased like that.

Also this made me have to look up the meaning of the word 'pulchritudinous'.

I don't quite agree with Serela's statement that Bard says 'Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them'. It sounds to me more like Bard is saying 'Serela's recent behaviour runs counter to his usual behaviour as town so reinforces my read on him' but maybe that's just interpretation.

On the Year topic; yeah he isn't a godsend to town but he's a darn sight better than Meow is in terms of low-activity and contribution. That said; maybe you can argue that actually posting sometimes but having no content is worse than not posting at all. But in that regard I'd argue Zwejb is worse, and of course, he was scum last time he did this. But I don't like relying solely on meta stuff either.

God this mafia game sucks.

[raikaria]

This game feels like I'm attempting to paddle a rowboat up a waterfall. Game is hard.

[zwerdjib]

##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here, he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever.
When I reiterate yet again, he refuses to provide any clarification. Again.
He also just sheeps Zoomy religiously. Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.

yeah

sure

im mafia

okay

you can lynch me now

eyeroll

[zwerdjib]

This game feels like I'm attempting to paddle a rowboat up a waterfall. Game is hard.

mood

[Bardiche]

Yeah, I mean, you can vote me, sure, but I have a deadline coming up Monday that I'm scrunching hard for, okay? There's still 120 pages I need to check and verify before I'm done, so you're gonna have to take some slow-mode.

##Vote: Serela
Don't really feel I am wrong on this count. Hastily adding on and on to his case on me just looks like scummy scrambling to make sure the case is legit. In essence, though, it feels like Serela says I'm not particularly scummy, but he votes me because I had reduced activity for the past few days.

That's a pretty strawberriesty "Lynch lurkers" case, and I'd expect more of Serela. At this stage, it's clear he's completely lost the plot, and is just looking for "the easy vote": in this post he narrows to Abu, Meow, and Beru, as a group of three with low activity. Clearly, after sensing Nucleus's lynch wasn't really picking up any steam despite seeming so easy (he had that breakdown, people seemed apt on voting him, it was a wagon Serela wanted to be on), he just defaulted to a lazy "Let's lynch lurkers" stance.

Basically, Serela can park his vote on me easily; in the worst case for him, I come up with a reasonable explanation for my lack of activity, and then he'll have bought time to look somewhere else/gauge the public sentiment. Please consider: Serela's avoided saying much about anyone notMe at this point, whereas other people are weighing in with scum reads. Serela can thus easily ride those sentiments once his reason for voting me falls away.


TL;DR:

Serela's only going after easy targets, whereas Town!Serela's normally willing to dare a bit more. The gutsiest thing he's done so far is vote me; everything else has been safe stances and attitudes.

[Bardiche]

It's also funny he states here he has little motivation to care about anything going on, which is well-reflected by general lethargy on Serela's side to hunt scum. There's such a thing as "active lurking", and Serela wrote the textbook entry for it in this thread, right here.


Other people who remain on my radar are NucleusWaffles (I still cannot shake the feeling that you are at best ITP, at worst scum, with a refuge in audacity and plenty of weird happenings), and zwerdjib, where you need only check his posts and you'll see it's a huge volume of them with a lot of chaff. He's masterfully staying in the mind as "someone who is active", but his posts aren't actually achieving a lot in terms of probing people, applying pressure, or directing the game.

Basically, I feel like he's making sure to be on the radars, while at the same time avoiding doing anything that would make him stand out a little more. A controlled bystander act, if you will.


And now I'm going back to work.