Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)

[zwerdjib]

I have a feeling that Zoomy is smartbomb.

would smartbomb intentionally misspell zwerdjib to fit in?

dont think so

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

This feels pretty disingenuous admittedly when I feel like I offered a lot of things to reflect off of and ppl are more concerned about if I'm an alt or not :/
But ok, I can nix the nicknaming and maintain a formal distance, oops.

[zwerdjib]

like i said

later

[zwerdjib]

dont worry about it, just dont call me zeep

[Daiya]

Currently, I want to townread Bardiche, Serela, raikaria. They did nice content without making things too difficult to read for the audience, I would like to think that comes from a town-motivated place.

Like, I do not think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking is a good thing.
However, I do think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking as scum is a good thing.
Then, I do think lynching lurkers, with a history of lurking as scum, but is otherwise very active as town, is a very good thing.

I think that's the gist of how meta-cases are formed, and why my scumbuddy last game (Serela) folded quite optimally under the pressure from sb, a player who knew his meta very well.

dunno how these two line up together. what exactly is so nice about serela's content, and what's different about his gameplay now than when you were scumbuddies. he's active lurking the same way that he was last time

[Daiya]

I scumread Yaer for being very liberal with vote swaps in Ys Mafia, but now has revised that history to 'voteparking on me' which seems to allude to PX's strategy in scumbussing me last game.

Yaer truly did votepark on me all day, until the wagon is now mostly dispersed, I think that's a hard scumread from me.

why are you not voting for your hard scumread?

[raikaria]

These two posts next to each other feel really conflicting, I'm doubting the conviction behind sussing out Daiya. Feels like saying words and throwing suspicion for the sake of it.
@Raikaria: Can you give some semblance of a reads list right now? Small blurbs as to why at least are preferred.

Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

The votes on me are fair, my last post(s) are definitely devoid of any real content lmao. I'd sort of like to join the beru wagon but I know I'm almost as guilty as they are of not really being able to find much to talk about so I can kind of sympathize? OK that sounded better in my head, actually typing it out almost makes me want to vote myself ZZZZZZZZZ Still tho', they're definitely doing even less than me.

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

Daiya - I don't like anyone buddying up to me by slight town reading me for a post in the early early game. I've done strawberries since, how does that weigh up to being slightly town for commenting on zwerdjib's early early game?

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

This game is hard.

[zwerdjib]

Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

This game is hard.

hence

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

passive gameplay.

i would like to clarify that passive doesnt mean "lurking". it means "showing up to seem like you want to play the game but really youre not doing anything"

thank you, raikaria. i had to remember to define passive gameplay

[meow56]

@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.

[zwerdjib]

i guess its time to do what tsugumi asked me to do one sec

[Serela]

zoomy comes in and makes big posts and everyone is only interested in accusing them of lying about not playing mafia in awhile and trying to figure out who they're pretending not to be *facepalms* zoomy is an actual member of this forum who did not magically just appear out of nowhere, they are not an alt of anyone.

also they're doing great so far!

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???.

All I'd been saying is if a different townie is a submarine they should maybe claim it (and otherwise was against claiming), you took the idea a step further

Nucleus' latest post is leagues ahead of his previous stuff and actually pretty good. I do actually agree that his behavior doesn't really seem mafia in the long run either but the early play does significantly suggest he might be ITP. Still, if he's starting to actually do a good job and look like not-mafia, there's always nukes later if we still suspect ITP, I guess.

##Unvote

Someone asked me if I think zwerd/dormio is a town/town spat; I think dormio looks fine enough right now, been trying to figure out where I stand on zwerd and I don't know which is why I haven't been commenting on it much

Serela's admission that he doesn't care what's going on runs counter to his usual stance as Town (which is to care a whole lot), and combined with vacuous ramblings, I'm fairly happy with just staring at my pulchritudinous vote right now.

don't care as in, none of the content so far was interesting in a way that helps me get a read on anyone. Day one is terrible and mafia is hard, these are eternal truths that I always believe in

Yaer has been consistently attempting to put pressure on people today and for their level of mafia skill i think they're doing pretty well

I feel like Abu, beru and meow just kind of 'exist' which is uh, poor

...I wasn't meaning to touch on every player but this post has done so apart from rai/bard/daiya, I previously commented rai is looking pretty solid, i think bard is fine so far, don't really have a stance on daiya atm but they're at least pressuring waffles and have been posting regularlyish

OK so I have a vote to use with waffles improving now, and there's Abu/beru/meow on the consideration list. I think... the only thing Beru's done is make some offhanded comments about zwerd that mostly weren't even about this game?? Meow's new so they're a bit lower priority for this at the moment, and Abu has... hmm, followed Dormio's case on zwerd, but he's at least pestered Zwerd a bit himself as well so between him and Beru it's a pretty clear choice

##Vote Beru

[zwerdjib]

Nyello, haven't played Mafia in about 6 years so apologies if I'm rusty on terminology and stuff.

I've been spectating this game (and the other ones played here since the reboot) and so I've got a few thoughts.

Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

@Serela: Do you think Dormio vs Zeep is Town/Town? You had a lot of game theory opinion but didn't really delve much into how you feel about either player.

@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

@Abu: I understand you're sheeping Dormio with the Zeep case, but do you have any suspicions of your own that you're examining right now?


I think that's everything so far?

CUT BY NUCLEUS: Ok I feel a little better about your posting style right now, keep this up and we can have some dialogue

okay, lets go

Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

i follow. i copy. i agree. i think at this point its going to be much easier to resolve a lurker slot than say dormio so im fine with a gameplan like this.

I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

also a thought process i agree with. i think im different in that im not sure if nucleuss belligerence is intentional or comes from years of not having played (and fwict having his first game in a while be a mafia roll?). i like to look at stuff like this within context. he is harming the town but i dont think people have really expressed to him what part of his act is actively harmful

Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

i mean i dont disagree but... hmm. im kind of seeing like. is beru the slot that i want to try and solve out first? berus not gonna try anyway afaict so wouldnt it just be easier to ask nucleus to nuke them or something? generates less complaints and still leaves the vote open

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

breaking this down

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around.

hmmm where do you get that impression from? i want to know. you asked for a dialogue and hence i shall give you one. tell me. i know you say "gut reads" but youll still have something to say besides that. everyone does.

Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

WAGA NAMAE DE WA NAI

i mean it makes sense on paper i just didnt realize half of us would be afk for the game

:vVVVVVV

Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

yaer is fine. bard seems like hes trying to uh... understand the game in his own way so sure

I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

We're going to do it eventually.

NEXT post

I think lurking is an inherently anti-town action especially when people are basically coming in to prod dodge and not further the game state in any meaningful way.
I understand cutting down on overall fluff but that can also be achieved by town consolidating posts where possible and keeping things concise.
I mean theoretically the 4 people I listed could contain the entire scumteam and the third party but it's statistically unlikely and too convenient, I'm sure at least one or two are town and just need to be doing a lot better.

You find out more about people's alignments the more they post and if a proper read could be had on any of them it's one step closer to solving the game. It should be wholly unacceptable to just lurk the whole time.

yeah sure

i think you care more about this game than a lot of people so im beginning to think you might be green

NEXT POST

Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

obligatory separatory post so this doesnt look awkward

Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

id like you to differentiate the two for me

Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

thats still not my name

.
.
.

see thats exactly what was meant to happen

i ran the numbers through in my head and it totally made sense

i just failed to run them more than one time

i think thats all

im tired going to play some wt probably bye

[zwerdjib]

zoomy comes in and makes big posts and everyone is only interested in accusing them of lying about not playing mafia in awhile and trying to figure out who they're pretending not to be *facepalms* zoomy is an actual member of this forum who did not magically just appear out of nowhere, they are not an alt of anyone.

also they're doing great so far!

no, if i had taken the care to iso them beforehand i likely would have noticed that, yes, they are a normal person and not an alt. my bad.

do appreciate their posts and went over why in the post (hopefully) above this one

[beru]

me: hewwo what's going on in this thread

thread: do you like mech spec

me: knowing what roles the town have is only useful for the mafia so what if we didn't do that

lol.

I understand if people want me to post more but I don't know any of you so I can't judge yall what well based on their meta except for zeepy zeep who I posted about already? it doesn't feel like anyone is doing anything like... obviously scummy. where's the postcount counter. where's the iso feature. what year is this. I wanna be lazy

I'm not going to ask for a meta primer because that would be too much work from one person but if uhhh individuals wish to volunteer their own metas to me I wouldn't say no

also I'm not reading any of nuclear's posts because I've already decided that he is too annoying and I hate him but I haven't ignorelisted him yet soooooooooooooo

[Yaersulf]

##Unvote
##Vote: Abu

Abu you haven't really said much of any real substance, gimme some juicy opinions. Including but not limited to Serela and Raikaria if you will.

[Serela]

where's the postcount counter. where's the iso feature. what year is this. I wanna be lazy

also I'm not reading any of nuclear's posts because I've already decided that he is too annoying and I hate him but I haven't ignorelisted him yet soooooooooooooo

click on someone's name to get to their profile, on the left there'll be a green "show posts" button

Nuclear's latest posts are actually pretty rational and readable so I recommend looking at these two, #284 and #287
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7785#msg7785
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7793#msg7793

[zwerdjib]

beru is scum

[NekoNekoRex]

DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Echo

Beru (3) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsugumi, Serela
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, NucleusWaffles

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

[Yaersulf]

Elaborate please Zwerd.

[beru]

me: you know guys, zeep is probably a villager

zeep: beru is scum

thanks zeep. appreciate it

[beru]

click on someone's name to get to their profile, on the left there'll be a green "show posts" button

Nuclear's latest posts are actually pretty rational and readable so I recommend looking at these two, #284 and #287
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7785#msg7785
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7793#msg7793

ok but that shows all their posts on the entire forum... I mean I guess it works but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. thank u tho

oh no it's more nuclear posts that I hate. I don't agree with replacements being v because where I come from replacements were lynched on sight because they were always scum. I've mellowed on it for a bit but if anyone is replacing out due to alignment it's probably scum tbh

like I like that nuclear is having thoughts that aren't trying to convince everyone to commit mass suicide but considering that he has already demonstrated his ability to vomit bullstrawberries all over the thread I can't really trust his process or his conclusions tbqh.

[beru]

I like this profanity filter and I will put as many fire trucking swears as I can into a single fire trucking post in order to see more glorious strawberries

[zwerdjib]

Elaborate please Zwerd.

i meant to do this and forgot

[zwerdjib]

i meant to do this and forgot

i forgot again

[zwerdjib]

basically beru is acting like i did in uhh... the neo forum mafia game

which i scumread

[Yaersulf]

You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.

What's different about Yaer?
Are you actually scumreading Nucleus or is it just convenient and decluttering?

This is really low effort, I'm quite disappointed honestly

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

So basically all I got from this post is "I wasn't suspecting Daiya, but Daiya is suspicious, but it's not scum, but it's interesting"
As well as, "Nucleus is probably not scum but also possibly 3rd party but probably not scum"
And also, "I like Serela's partial massclaim idea, but then they did something suspicious" <this should have had more thoughts after?

Like, idk, there's zero conviction here to me, it really feels as if you are still saying words just to say words and act like you're going somewhere. Why aren't you voting anyone?

[zwerdjib]

You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

LITERALLY exactly this yes

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

*but it's not scummy, but it's interesting
got to amend that typo

Someone asked me if I think zwerd/dormio is a town/town spat; I think dormio looks fine enough right now, been trying to figure out where I stand on zwerd and I don't know which is why I haven't been commenting on it much

I would like more of your thought processes here, I want to know what's giving you so much pause on zwerd, both the good and the bad.