Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Game Over!)

[raikaria]

I am awake, how much time do we have left?

Like 14 hours

[NucleusWaffles]

So let's talk about a few pieces of confidence that I have so we can get things in perspective.

NNR is town. I'm going to ignore everything he's doing and focusing on the fact that he really thinks I'm pushing him because of his character. It means he cares about his character in a towny manner, and I don't want to spend more than the necessary time on this.

Raikaria is probably town for a similar virtue that he doesn't actually know how alignments are going to be set in this game. Honestly, I don't know either, and maybe the good guys are town or whatever. Who knows. But Rai doesn't really know. So let's stop here before going into the mess that is people's posts and reads.

Then we have people who have posted stuff. I'm still getting townvibes off BBM right now, how he's talking sounds like he's being genuine and he is struggling and if I'm being snowed, that's on me. I'll sort this out later.

Then we have Tom. Now I can plot what he's doing but he's really taken a very lazy seat in this game and I can plot it out from a town perspective but it is significantly worse than yesterday, he's posted graphs and naked voted people and that's it. This may be because he got basically made fun of on Day 1 as town, instead of being mafia and phoning it in. He needs to improve.

There's also this post:
Which is, uh incredibly problematic. How this is problematic is best left up as an exercise to the reader.

We have Banana Spritzee who I don't really trust with his entrance, not going to lie. Bardiche was very very town, but Banana Spritzee is playing the AWOL card and not caring what's going on and I refuse to let that sort of behaviour fly, especially since that's also what he does as scum. It's nonsense. He's also got some weird balance of knowing what's going on but trying to pretend he doesn't care? It's hard to describe, call tomorrow.

Neither player has lost enough towncred to be a consideration for me right now. I will lynch Banana Spritzee cause if he doesn't play games I can be more than irritable regardless of how I feel about Bardiche. But let's move on, this is me complaining, either they do something or they won't and I'll complain regardless.

Yaersulf is someone I'm surprised isn't getting more attention right now and it's really adding to this strange state that Fabloo is talking about. Like, I'm not against it, cause Yaersulf's reaction to Fabloo's secret stuff is very townie and makes sense cause you don't get upset at a supposed cop claiming you yourself are guilty unless you're town, right? That's how that ended up. But that's just been accepted as kosher. And I guess I'll just use this as a thought about how scum don't really feel like taking initiative this game. It's a very out there read that involves a lot of the circumstances in this game but yeah. I don't think a mislynch is being pushed by scum, they're just letting town push other town and not even trying to open up other options. Whether that's sheeping other cases or just not having the thread presence, who knows. Maybe that might be a good observation for other people.

I don't feel like Serela is scum, but I can't exactly say Serela is town. If Polaris is assessing Serela's scum meta properly, well... meh. This is kind of a locked door for me and I really don't know how to judge him, and quite honestly I'm running out of scumreads, so he'll reside here until I think more about either Banana Spritzee or Tom.

We have Polaris, who I will leave in this category because this is the Polaris category. That is all.

And so that leaves a few people left. I feel like properly examining Daiya makes sense once everyone's given more than lipservice to him, so that'll wait. I have further comments on him that I need to nail down looking at him again though.

And I still don't know what to make of NucleusWaffles. It's not the "man this guy is weird" category. It's something else. When someone doesn't consider himself a town PR (assumedly cause he says he's weak, but how does he even have a judge of that? This is his first game!), when someone doesn't die on N1 - like say the mafia is dodging a doc. Zwerdjib's a pretty natural doc dodge for a multitude of reasons, but why wouldn't you hit the weakest town PR? If zwerdjib wasn't the tracker the night would've been questionable.

Every post he makes is word salad yes, but if you actually try and read his posts... nothing of consequence is really said. I don't need a summary of the game, I need thoughts on the game. Maybe that's just his thing. I have doubts.

This isn't even getting into the role part of him. That's something I don't want to push too much on my own for obvious reasons. But I have problems with that as well. If he's a flavourcop, why doesn't he just say what his results are? That's only one of the many questions that I'd like to ask but won't.

This post solidifies my townread on Disquieted. I am pretty sure off memory, I won't be able to find something for Yaesulf, but I am rereading raikaria and BBM, it should be fairly quick.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
NucleusWaffles (4): Yaersulf, PX, Serela, raikaria
Daiya (2): Fabloo, BigBangMeteor
Disquieted (2): banana spritzee, Tom
Serela (1): NekoNekoRex
raikaria (1): NucleusWaffles
sb (0):
Yaersulf (0):
Tom (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
banana spritzee (0):
Fabloo (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 11 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Daiya, sb, Disquieted

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

[NucleusWaffles]

I'm kinda working backwards here, so bear with me:

Disquieted and BBM are setting up for pushing Daiya D2 at ED1 in #729/730.

Zwed seems to be somewhat pressureing Serela in #722; he's also notably voting Serela ED1 despite being around so near hammer.

BBM seems rather buddy-buddy with Smartbomb in #720

Zwed's vote on Serela seems to be 'no we're not voting Smartbomb'. Not the most useful interaction.

Disquieted votes on meow in #698 without any explanation. The lack of explanation is quite telling, since at this time; Fabloo and Yaersulf's wagons are both on 5.

BBM in #699 echos the 'not turboing Smartbomb' thing. More buddy-buddy. They have a habit of posting right after each other too.

#712; Daiya shows up and basically just wagonhops with the sentiment 'This can't be stopped *shrug*'. Not great.

Either BBM's reads are wrong, everyone on the Townie wagon was wrong, or BBM is scum.

Also; I don't particularly recall BBM previously expressing a bad read on me, but maybe I'll come across it.

I don't like posts like this.

AAAARGHGHHH! Votes with no reasons! Are so unhelpful! Especially enmasse!

This post from Daiya makes their eventual wagonhop look more like a legitimate 'I'm consolidating'. Also; the 'no-one is defending them' seems like a legitimate concern and a good point.

Scumreads would have been helpful, but I guess 'null reads' are his 'scumreads'.

BBM in #683 a least is pushing on Meow on who he thinks is most likly to be scum, and Meow responds Polaris and Tom.

Dosen't this opinion conflict with the 'new player pass' attitude however? You can't attribute bad play to 'new player' and then say 'I can't see new player who is playing badly acting this way'.

And where is this sentiment when Meow lays down with a VT claim?

This post is raiseing alarm bells due to inconsistency; especially with his Smartbomb buddying.

Also this post looks like a uge slip.

If meow is more suspicious than Serela... then you should be voting meow? Also why is this even a problem to BBM when BBM is voting Meow himself? Why would he be against this?

Also worth noting at this point:

Hmm. BBM and Smartbomb back to back again.

I actually really dislike BBM's end of day...

Also on my earlier point of hsi bad read on me:

'Raikaria is refusing to give out newbie passes and is pushing for people he states he thinks are making scummy play. This is bad'. - That's what I read here.

Aka: Raikaria is scumhunting newbies so he is scummy and the worst-looking player imo right now.

How does this logic work?

Also I'm under the impression that Roles are rolled for? The scumteam isn't curated by the GM as far as I'm aware. Dormio and other GM's don't manically laugh as they try and create the most hilarious scumteam.

All the newbies could be scum. Or none of them.

---

I think I've read enough. BBM has been buddying Smartbomb hard, has some really weird statements [Why are you voting Meow over Serela if you think Meow is more suspicious? How does this opinion make ANY sense?] and his read on me also makes no sense [Although this could be OMGUS talking. If someone else disagrees with my read of BBM's opinion on me, feel free to correct me].

But right now I'm happy doing this. I'm also not particularly impressed with Smartbomb's ED1 and those two come across as buddying to me.

##Vote: BigBangMeteor

---

cut:

I might be misinterpreting this but it feels like you're saying your Smartbomb vote could apply to everyone. On re-read I think I might be misinterpreting it. As I said, my brain is kinda melted down.

I reread and I found I disliked this post the most.

I don't think this is solid evidence for a BBM-raikaria scumteam, but I think its surprisingly covers a very short timeframe despite being a high effort post and raikaria was not under much pressure at the stage.

I disliked it because, I think coupled with the lack of votes and the sentiment shared about a possible scum!raikaria, I think this post can be evidence for or against my opinions. Which makes this a bit hard.

In summary, despite my problems with how long this post is versus how infrequent raikaria comes online, this case is structure quite soundly which makes me doubt BBM-raikaria can both be scum especially with such a determined vote from raikaria.

Yaesulf is next.

[NucleusWaffles]

I don't have something like a big post specific for Yaersulf (whom I mispelt, sorry)

The best I would describe it is Polaris-like. I think that's all from me.

[Disquieted]

What exactly is Polaris-like?

[NucleusWaffles]

Short quips, not walls, but generally reasonable opinions that are not too offensive and reads quite null.

Nothing too remarkable like starting/derailing a wagon, nor hard buddying a player, just easygoing and relaxed.

[sb]

My gut 20 pages in is that we should be looking into a Serela lynch rn. My read is that most of the people involved in the ugly fights are probably town and scum were uninvolved, with the exception of possibly Bard. So generally I feel like scum are getting off easy and nothing Serela has one so far has made me particularly comfortable, but his initial Fabloo vote felt like it ignored the context around their unvote, and Zwer was gunning for them later on and they were the nightkill instead of the Mason slots, or even BBM or something. You could argue “it was a doc dodge” but it looks like scum were super comfy with how the gamestate was or else I think they would’ve killed a Mason or someone with more influence. Idk if I’m overthinking this one though.

Still reading.

[BigBangMeteor]

Sb thank God pls tell me who's scum. Are you gonna be awake for deadline?

@nucleus- Well the one thing that hints at me and raikaria bring possible buddies is that we had a slapfight where we posted big walls and then unvoted each other within a few hours. But uh I'm not buddies with raikaria.

I still just don't understand why you targeted daiya n1. You keep tiptoeing around the question. People have quoted posts showing you were suspicious of daiya D1. How did you go from that to him being your strongest townread just because you suspected px/fabloo of being third party? Grr.

Regardless, please target NNR on N2 Nucleus. Fairly sure this is the non-mason slot with the least suspicion atm. Yes, I know it gives a signal to the mafia to not kill NNR but that's fine, it makes them make a less optimal kill.

I don't really see the point of having everyone say "I have a gender". Obviously the person without a gender will just... Lie. I have a gender though!

Also I believe nucleus said he could only target females, not males. A backup for a specific role is a thing but in that case the backup is triggered automatically, they don't have to also target the dead person on that night. That would just be lame and almost impossible to hit correctly.

Also my bad in my vote against daiya I think I said their vote/unvote of smartbomb didn't seem genuine but what I meant was their vote/unvote against polaris.

[sb]

Also I guess I’m biased but meow just felt like a mislynch in the making even before I get there.

When is deadline from now?

[sb]

Backup for females only (if that’s what it is?) could easily just be a balancing mechanism for preventing specific roles from being copied.

With that in mind, please don’t claim gender thanks.

[sb]

And just as I say that I don’t like Serela I see a Serela wagon start forming.

I kinda like Serela/rai as a pair but I don’t want to get too ahead of myself.

[BigBangMeteor]

I don't like the serela lynch idk. I wouldn't defend him but I feel like there are better choices.

Deadline is 10 PM EST (13 hours from now)

[sb]

Okay apparently it was just people trolling, mafia sucks.

I am not sure if I like smartbomb saying that they thought Yaersulf was town when the votes were 6: meow/5: Yaersulf and then unvoting meow to sit alone on the Daiya wagon without really trying to get a lynch there.

I guess he came back soon after but this really rubbed me the wrong way.

[sb]

Actually, their explanation later is good. Not sure if the slot is scum now.

[sb]

i mean

the huge wagon right now is the person i'm voting, so.

smartbomb's come back now but it hasn't really gone anywhere yet so i don't see much need to revisit it (Summary of the case on you in one sentence:Waffley rambling that doesn't go anywhere for all of D1, underwhelming scumhunting in general)

also daiya literally said in one of their last few posts that they've played several games of mafia before

Serela, hasn’t this case been used against you for like, years? With you often flipping town?

I’m kinda baffled that you of all people would bring this up.

[sb]

Wow. You knew what I was thinking, huh.

Since we're in weird flavourtown land already, is there even a set scum team flavourwise in this game? Or are we just guessing who's what in terms of characters and scum alignments?

I assume this theoretical gender lacking person has a win condition that is, what, harmful? Evil? Or just joking around?

Dormio is willing to flavour the scumteam as more or less anything, as far as I can tell. Angel Beats had the scumteams basically be the main characters vs other main characters vs everything else.

[sb]

I am very tired of reading this thread now.

sb
Fabloo and their hat

BigBangMeteor
NekoNekoRex

Tom
Disquieted
Yaersulf

NucleusWaffles
Daiya

raikaria
banana spritzee
Serela

[sb]

I did, however, manage to claim the mighty post 1337.

##Vote: Serela

I don't feel like Serela has really done much this game. They've posted, yeah, but I've been missing the manic townie energy from their posts, which was present in the last game and I think their cases haven't been particularly solid. They feel really uh, in-the-moment instead of looking at the big picture of the game so it feels more like they're trying to look good instead of look at scum. Their early Fabloo vote and their Nucleus vote recently are both "aha, gotcha" votes that don't feel like they have any kind of townie fervor behind them... which is sort of the point of gotcha votes.

I think the gamestate is pretty clearly stagnant because scum aren't in trouble right now, but at the first sign of danger, zwerd got nightkilled over the claimed masons and other likely townreads, when they were the only person seriously pushing Serela. You can claim that scum were trying to dodge a doc, sure, but also they could've just shot PX lol who would've actually docced PX when they were probably on a single-digit number of posts. Everything feels like scum!Serela to me.

Also, as someone who has drunkposted as scum on many occasions: it really doesn't mean anything.

[sb]

The Nucleus wagon is kind of ugly, especially with the vote timings coming after they claimed. I already touched on Serela's being bad, but rai is also voting Nucleus because their claim didn't "make sense", but they are also playing their first game ever. This is a huuuuge turnaround on someone they supposedly townread before?

I can't say that I hate the Daiya scumreads but him empty unvoting smartbomb when the wagons were 5: smartbomb/3: Daiya read like a town move, I don't think Daiya expected to look any better from the unvote so unless he was very afraid of thunderdoming smartbomb later in the day and wanted to squeeze out of it I think it comes from town.

[sb]

Also TBZ is scum for being lazy. This post, too, is a lazy descriptor but even when he is posting it doesn't feel like he's actually trying to accomplish anything.

[Yaersulf]

Forgive my ignorance but who do you mean when you say TBZ?

Also I'm about to sleep and I should be awake for the deadline, but apologies in advance if I'm not.

[sb]

Oh, sorry. TBZ is Banana Spiritzee.

[Fabloo]

sb's recent output makes me believe Bardiche was town. His content doesn't seem processed or merely decided on what would be best for him to look townie. Seems like he actually wants to discuss the things he is describing.

[Fabloo]

Wait sorry. SB subbed in for Polaris. That's completely wrong. Ignore above. Points still stand.

[raikaria]

The Nucleus wagon is kind of ugly, especially with the vote timings coming after they claimed. I already touched on Serela's being bad, but rai is also voting Nucleus because their claim didn't "make sense", but they are also playing their first game ever. This is a huuuuge turnaround on someone they supposedly townread before?

It was a *minor* townread, and I think that Nucleus' claim and the situation surrounding it are that bad. Belive it or not people can say and do things which change your opinion of them.

To me, it seems nonsensical and such an obvious fakeclaim due to that. Really; main main doubt is that the claim is *so* bad and obviously fake I have some reservations as to if there's anyone in a scum QT helping him. It's like the one way he's town is because his claim is that bad.

Also I'm kinda stumped with the whole Polly situation.

[Fabloo]

sb you touched on a subject I thought about myself a little. Why did me and PX dodge the bullet? Could my reads have been wrong? It's not worth it to fully mull on this but I like that sb brought it up.

I don't know how much you've read since then sb but when you get back can you tell me about the sudden scramble that has happened in D2 afterward? There was this moment in time where Daiya/Disquieted/Serela were all trading blows and then after talking to Disquieted I told him that I felt that they were working overtime if that were the scumteam.

[sb]

It was a *minor* townread, and I think that Nucleus' claim and the situation surrounding it are that bad. Belive it or not people can say and do things which change your opinion of them.

To me, it seems nonsensical and such an obvious fakeclaim due to that. Really; main main doubt is that the claim is *so* bad and obviously fake I have some reservations as to if there's anyone in a scum QT helping him. It's like the one way he's town is because his claim is that bad.

Also I'm kinda stumped with the whole Polly situation.

First, I don't think trying to rolespec someone as a sole reason to suspect them based on a setup which was made 6 years ago or something is a line of questioning that is likely to be successful.

Second, do you remember Medaka Box? In that game Dormio included 2 backup roles for different portions of the playerlist.

Does this affect your read on Nucleus?

[sb]

sb you touched on a subject I thought about myself a little. Why did me and PX dodge the bullet? Could my reads have been wrong? It's not worth it to fully mull on this but I like that sb brought it up.

I don't know how much you've read since then sb but when you get back can you tell me about the sudden scramble that has happened in D2 afterward? There was this moment in time where Daiya/Disquieted/Serela were all trading blows and then after talking to Disquieted I told him that I felt that they were working overtime if that were the scumteam.

I've read all but the last few pages, aside from stuff where I subbed in after so I guess there's a little hole but I've read most things.

I'll be honest, it's kind of a blur to me. There have been so many uh, interesting posts this game that after a while my brain felt like it was turning to mush while reading but I thought the fact the Disquieted hit L-2 was a little wack. The problem with looking into it is that I think BBM/NNR are town, Tom *should* be town but he's doing whatever the heck he's doing D2. So it's not like an entirely bad wagon but it has Serela and TBZ on it so that's still a scary looking wagon.

[Fabloo]

Right now my main thing is that I want a consensus lynch and not something that is scrambled together the very last minute of deadline. I've been suggesting Daiya for the longest time. I actually don't townread Serela either but you'd have to get others to agree. Daiya just seems to be standing in place. His unvote was seemingly conscious but his vote on Tom didn't seem to have any relevance in the first place. Just felt like something he carried over from D1 without thinking about what it meant D2.

As the thread has developed. Daiya seems pretty lost. Maybe unsure. Intimidated maybe? This intidimation could come from him being scum where his Tom vote and lead eventually crumbled and he needed some support from others in the thread in order to validate it. Or something else. The strongest indicator of everything when it comes to Daiya what I'm describing though. This air of indecision. That practically comes from nowhere. I don't like it.