Things you don't like about Touhou

[Vance_croowa_08]

EDIT: The Reimu rant you're about to read is stupid and wrong and doesn't reflect my current feelings towards her

EDIT 1: i'm kind of (but not entirely) doubling down on my bad take. Even if you mention all the good things she did in the series, in my opinion they're simply not enough. I just can't bring myself to like Reimu sometimes, and that kind of applies to the other incident resolvers as well. The way they behave in the games is just bad IMO (ESPECIALLY in UFO)

Are there any aspects of Touhou that you ABSOLUTELY cannnot stand?

If there is one thing i don't like about Touhou, it's definitely Reimu's personality. I don't know, everything about her, from the way she acts in the games and mangas, to the way she interacts with other characters in the series, just makes her come across as unbearably rude and as an all around dickhead. I don't care if she is supposed to be like this, it makes me go absolutely ballistic sometimes. She insults people for no reason, attacks random youkai out of nowhere (Remember Tokiko?), generally behaves aggressively and is incredibly selfish and also ungrateful (Kogasa made new magic needles for her once, and Reimu attacked her instead of paying her). sometimes, just sometimes, i wonder if she has any redeeming traits at all. The fact that the other characters in the series don't care and just seem to be okay with whatever she does makes me feel even more frustrated. I KNOW that she isn't always like this but i can't stand her sometimes

I'm sorry for overreacting, i know i shouldn't be this mad over a video game character but i really wanted to take this off my chest. There are probably many things i missed since i don't read the official mangas that much. I'm ready to hear your opinions. Again sorry for the stupid rant

[High-Tension Yuuritsu]

Don't worry, I used to also harbor those very feelings toward Reimu just like you. What I think is up with Reimu is that she has to keep her reputation as the human balancer of Gensokyo, showing her might towards the youkai so that they would fear her, just like how some youkai like Yukari act so that people are wary and cautious towards youkai.

[Vance_croowa_08]

Don't worry, I used to also harbor those very feelings toward Reimu just like you. What I think is up with Reimu is that she has to keep her reputation as the human balancer of Gensokyo, showing her might towards the youkai so that they would fear her, just like how some youkai like Yukari act so that people are wary and cautious towards youkai.

Eh, even if that were true it still irks me

[CyberAngel]

Assuming the worst of the youkai is kind of Reimu's job description. And it's not entirely unfounded (remember tanuki-Marisa?). I do find such Reimu hate irksome because it's a severe case of tunnel vision and ignores all the times Reimu's been fair to youkai (allowing Suika to loaf around after IaMP, sheltering Shinmyoumaru after DDC, befriending the three/four fairies, allowing youkai to hang out at her parties and set up stalls in her festivals etc.).

What I really don't like about Touhou is where it's going now. The games have completely lost my interest, first by gameplay going bland (16) and then by aesthetics and story going in very unfitting direction (17). And then 18 just jumped the shark by ZUN dumping all his remaining gameplay ideas into f-ing lootboxes.

But new games aren't the only thing I don't like. I've lost interest in official manga once the old series wrapped up and new ones failed to catch my interest. The detective one, from as long as I followed, is a non-stop build-up to nothing that moves at snail's pace. And as for the youkai bar one... I have a personal grudge against drunkards. I know ZUN is a drinker and parties have always been a part of the stories, but drinking was never the major focus and I could kinda ignore it. A whole manga centered all around it is too much for me. I have no idea if it works well for worldbuilding or not, but I don't care, it's marred for me from the very concept.

[Vance_croowa_08]

Ok, i guess i was wrong about Reimu. I wrongly painted her as this dickish idiot who can do no good, while ignoring the good things she did to the youkai in the series. Still, the way she acts sometimes bothers me a lot but that's on me

What I really don't like about Touhou is where it's going now. The games have completely lost my interest, first by gameplay going bland (16) and then by aesthetics and story going in very unfitting direction (17). And then 18 just jumped the shark by ZUN dumping all his remaining gameplay ideas into f-ing lootboxes.

I don't like the current artstyle, i mean it's not god awful but i much prefer the old one (EoSD-SA). I'm not very interested in the newer games, but maybe i'm a bit biased because EoSD is the one i played the most. Don't have any strong feelings towards the mangas, i think they do a good job at expanding and fleshing out Gensokyo

[Miminena]

The Yin-Yang Orb from HRtP. I've probably been hit by that thing more times than everything else in the game combined.

[Vance_croowa_08]

The Yin-Yang Orb from HRtP. I've probably been hit by that thing more times than everything else in the game combined.

A game where YOUR OWN PROJECTILE can kill you. I'm glad ZUN deciced to stick with bullet hell

[Vance_croowa_08]

Another thing i absolutely cannot stand is the way Kogasa is treated. Seriously she never ever gets an happy ending, it seems as if her role in the series is to be a pathetic punching bag that only exists to fail. Oh and Reimu for some reason always insults her whenever she has the chance, which is....weird?!? Does she have some sort of vendetta against her? The fact that Kogasa never stands up for herself and just keeps quiet is also infuriating, is that supposed to make me feel bad for her or am i supposed to laugh? I mean i do feel bad but come on!

I know i shouldn't get my pants in a twist over a video game character but it's hard not to when you get emotionally attached to said character

[CyberAngel]

Kogasa is supposed to be annoying due to attempting to surprise people, so those too experienced to be scared of youkai just roll their eyes and brush her off by default. And yeah, she's usually ineffective at doing her "job", so she's pretty much designed to be a pity magnet.

That said, if you're still hung up on the needle thing, I think the wiki's interpretation is wrong. The way I take that scene is Reimu agreeing to pay later but deciding to test out the needles immediately to make sure Kogasa didn't make them in some weird way that wouldn't hurt youkai. Given the tenacity Kogasa has shown to even offer her services, I don't think she would let go of that matter so easily in case of being swindled.

[Vance_croowa_08]

Kogasa is supposed to be annoying due to attempting to surprise people, so those too experienced to be scared of youkai just roll their eyes and brush her off by default. And yeah, she's usually ineffective at doing her "job", so she's pretty much designed to be a pity magnet.

That said, if you're still hung up on the needle thing, I think the wiki's interpretation is wrong. The way I take that scene is Reimu agreeing to pay later but deciding to test out the needles immediately to make sure Kogasa didn't make them in some weird way that wouldn't hurt youkai. Given the tenacity Kogasa has shown to even offer her services, I don't think she would let go of that matter so easily in case of being swindled.

Eh, i guess this makes me feel slightly happier about Kogasa...still, i hope ZUN eventually decides to make her win just once. God i can't believe i'm getting emotional over an umbrella ROFL

Spoiler:

PROTECC TEH UMBRELLA WAIFU!!!!!!

[HartWurst]

A weird complaint I have about the newer Touhou games is how the enemies which appear at the start of stage 1. Until about 13 I believe, the first enemies would die pretty much instantly but now it takes way longer for them to go down. It just makes Reimu or whoever I'm playing as feel way weaker

[williewillus]

Yeah enemies have been tankier since WBaWC, probably to compensate for the systems in each of those games.

Hopefully ZUN goes for a simpler system in th20.

[degradingwindow]

1 week in and I'm surprised there hasn't been any lunarian hate yet.

It does feel like hate towards them has been weakening over the years.

[Vance_croowa_08]

1 week in and I'm surprised there hasn't been any lunarian hate yet.

It does feel like hate towards them has been weakening over the years.

I legitimately HATE lunarians, unironically. Poor Reisen...

[CyberAngel]

Lunarians are fun antagonists because, due to how high and mighty they are, any victory against them feels satisfying. They don't have any relevance left after LoLK though so that's why.

OTOH, the newer antagonist groups vex me. While lunarians had reasons to be connected to Gensokyo, the "capitalism lol" storylines going on nowadays feel absolutely out of place. They feel more like mouthpieces for ZUN to preach his ideas rather than a natural element of the world. And given that I couldn't even tell WHAT kind of views he was trying to preach, it feels like he's way out of his depth on the matter. As a result, the newer characters stick out and not in a good way.

[Antimattter Eels]

OTOH, the newer antagonist groups vex me. While lunarians had reasons to be connected to Gensokyo, the "capitalism lol" storylines going on nowadays feel absolutely out of place. They feel more like mouthpieces for ZUN to preach his ideas rather than a natural element of the world. And given that I couldn't even tell WHAT kind of views he was trying to preach, it feels like he's way out of his depth on the matter. As a result, the newer characters stick out and not in a good way.

I actually like some of the new antagonists ZUN has brought in! To be fair, the only games I have played with the new antagonists are WBaWC and UDoALG. At least in these two games, I feel like the antagonists have reasons for being in the story and fit the theme of their respective game (especially WBaWC).

I dislike how many of the newer games lack the "mystery" of older games. I don't know if I'm imagining it, but the games and their world feel "cleaner" and less scary and grand. The vibes of the early windows games are a lot different from more recent games.

[Felis-Licht]

I dislike how many of the newer games lack the "mystery" of older games. I don't know if I'm imagining it, but the games and their world feel "cleaner" and less scary and grand. The vibes of the early windows games are a lot different from more recent games.

Can you elaborate more on this?

[Antimattter Eels]

Can you elaborate more on this?

I think that in older Touhou games, stuff just happened, and we didn't have as much knowledge about the world or the characters to explain it. The music also has an effect, since I feel the music of the early windows games are less energetic and more melancholy, all working together to fit the theme of the game, like in Imperishable Night. It is mostly a vague feeling instead of a concrete thing, though. I've played a few games, but don't read much of the print works, so I'm not fully versed in the lore.

[CyberAngel]

In older games, the stakes were - or at least seemed to be - pretty high. It was usually either some occurance that threatened Gensokyo inhabitants or appearance of someone who could change things in a big way. Meanwhile, 17 deals with things happening in a different world that leave even protagonists asking "and why do I have to care, again?". 18 doesn't help by resulting in a slow burn of an ongoing storyline the outcome of which doesn't even matter for anyone involved. There's definitely a difference of scale.

[cloudshift]

well,some of the 2ho fans consider 2ho as a living legend or even above......a little bit too pompous....

[marumuju]

After thinking about this for a long time, I think I'm not a fan of WBaWC's Spirit Item system. I can sort of understand why it is what it is, but it's just not my cup of tea.

[CyberAngel]

After thinking about this for a long time, I think I'm not a fan of WBaWC's Spirit Item system. I can sort of understand why it is what it is, but it's just not my cup of tea.

Do you think it's better or worse than UFOs?

[SeroVich]

Do you think it's better or worse than UFOs?

I don't know dude, all I know is that Touhou UFO is hell...

[SeroVich]

While it is on the characters than the aspects, I don't really like Seiga for very, veeeery personal reasons. Not full on hate per se (I've a life, duh!!), but not the one I see positively, like being neutral but leaning towards negative view towards her. You get me.

About the aspects, I don't really like how the UFO's in Touhou 12 move. You thought you could get them right here, only to move to the other side!! Man, this game is a pain in the back! 

[CyberAngel]

Their movement is predictable, they just don't go all the way down. What's really annoying is when they overlap bullets or change color right when they get close to the bottom, where you'd want to catch them. While that timing is predictable too, it tends to be inconvenient more often than not in the busier moments.

Speaking of, I'm not quite a fan how UFO the game ends up being more about struggling to catch those UFOs rather than dodging bullets, so stage patterns suffer to accomodate for that. That and the mess of bullets, items and UFOs can get pretty hard to parse.

[MOSS]

I dislike the direction that ZUN's artwork has been going.
It has become too streamlined for my tastes.
I think I would compare it to the "business/corporate" art style that just feels so soulless.

[Vance_croowa_08]

Yeah, it suffers from same face syndrome. The old art style at least made everyone look different

[CyberAngel]

Yeah. And why do some of the girls look like their skirts are wet?

[SeroVich]

Yeah. And why do some of the girls look like their skirts are wet?

Maybe because of the Typhoon effect always happen while Tenshi is fighting someone. 

[bermudaesque]

Not much, as far as I can tell. Maybe the mainline games, I have a love/hate relationship with them since they're so tough, but they are at least fun to watch, and provide a huge rush when you actually learn how to play them, of course.

I don't really like this weird culture you see sometimes about trying to police people/fanworks that don't follow canon to a T, but I guess 'the fandom' is a bit of an unfair answer. Don't see that stuff too much these days anyway, I suppose.

Overall, though, I love Touhou. I love its uneventful storylines and flawed characters and art and all that.



Actually, maybe that one group of Kappa that keep coming to my door and offering to tile my roof at a discount every week even though I really don't need it and it's still really expensive. I don't really like them that much.