Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)

[Serela]

no idea

probably nucleus but hes entertaining

it's been d2 for days now
sobs

would vote zwerd if I had a second vote

I would assign a 2:1 ratio for old players/new players in the scumteam. I am not the ITP, I am actually looking for NK right now because them living through DEFCON2 is a big problem.

Scumteam is generally made through RNG (although a host might manually intervene if it chose, like, 3 newbies) so I wouldn't try to think of stuff like potential 'well balanced scum team layout options' e.g. 2:1 ratio of old/new players. Also, the encrypted leak isn't really enough to scumhunt off; raikaria isn't the only person liable to think of just straight-up encrypting scumchat.

Especially not if you actually don't like the cases against raikaria and are using the encrypted leak as your sole reason to suspect them?? Anyone else could have done this.

[Bardiche]

Selery this isn’t a “case.”

1.Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them
2.NucleusWaffles sure isn't townie and also sure isn't scummy (even bard loves some delicious waffles i see)
3."daiya why did you townread me"
4.Said Zwerd's posts were kind of empty for how many there were

This isn't -that- bad but this is the entirety of his content for the whole second half of Day 1, and only #4 here is the only one that even requires having done more than lightly skim the thread (barely).

#1 is simply true. I haven’t stopped scumreading you and sincerely believe lynching you is the best course of action for Town.


#2 is a misrep. I listed Nucleus as a scumread. The part giving you apparent trouble is “his actions are impossible to rhyme as Town but not outright scummy”, while neglecting the part where I said he was doing that last game, too (where he was scum). So lemme say it in simpler terms:


Nucleas is behaving in a way that doesn’t make any sense for a Townie to do, even if his behaviour is not outright Scum-minded behaviour (telling people to lynch you is generally not what scum would do). At best this makes him 3P, at worst he is trying to refuge in audacity by behaving as crazy as possible so no one pays him any heed, nor wants to use the lynch on him.


Remember that we have mod confirmation of a third party being in play. We also want to eliminate them.


#3 & #4 are mostly accurate reports (I actually said I thought Daiya townreading me seemed scummy), and like I mentioned, you outright state it’s not that bad...


And go on to complain it’s my “only” post (lurker accusation). I disagree that it doesn’t take more than skimming to read Nucleus’s posts because they’d be the first thing to overlook on a skim, with the nonsense about wolves and sheep.


So if you’re going to complain about “handwaving” a case, at least put some effort and build one that isn’t just misrepresenting someone’s position, saying it isn’t all that bad, and then focusing mostly on “volume of posts”.


Why is it scummy of me to play more passively? Last game I took the lead, and I was told it was “tiresome” having to read “Bardiche thinking he’s all clever”; so why should I bother now to lead the discussion?


I’d rather not deal with that bullstrawberries again. Damned if I post a lot and damned if I don’t.

[NekoNekoRex]

I am still looking for a replacement for beru

[Daiya]

apologies, got caught up in eimm. phase ends in 4(?) hours, so i'll be around to catch up tonight

[meow56]

Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.

[zwerdjib]

I agree, it's really concerning, feels like night and day to yesterday's play.

How do we have 6 non-voters btw?? Have half the players just not shown up yet today?
Where's Waffles and Daiya in particular? Both have yet to make a post this day phase

tends to happen honestly

very fast burn

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

What I think is a problem with this game is that it feels like people are playing with their cards very close to their chest and people aren't interacting as much as we should
A lot of people are seemingly only with one active suspect at a time which is why I've been prodding for overall reads too.
And I want to say "well ok clearly that means those people are scum if they're not that open" but a lot of people are doing it this game and at least some of those people I am townreading.
Not to mention that on any given day half the people aren't even showing up for more than a post.

I might as well lay my reads out again to help myself even get a better idea of where things are at.
At this stage I feel good with Serela, Yaer, Daiya and Nucleus as town reads.
Beru's slot still kinda sucks but I'm not prioritizing this read right now. Really hope we can get a replacement there soon.
I feel confident with Raik as a scumread.
I could definitely easily see Zwerd being scum, Meow maybe too.
Dormio is probably town, but if Zwerd is town I can see Dormio being scum.
Bard's intentionally lower activity play is really concerning especially because I'm still leaning town on them. @Bard can I humbly request you to get more involved?

I'm also not gonna lie but I have no real frame of reference for what I should be looking for re:the third party, so I'm not confident on anyone. If I had to hazard a guess, I feel like calling Nucleus the ITP feels like a cop out and that the real ITP is probably in someone a bit more subdued and subtle like Dormio or Bard.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.

[zwerdjib]

In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.

not sure

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

why not

[Yaersulf]

Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.

The things that struck me as odd about your reads list were Bard and I being your top scumreads, over say Abu and Beru. I can understand me being a scumread, but not a top scumread if that makes sense. Also Zwerdjib being so high.

As for your reasoning, there's no way you could know this so it's not like I'm saying your reasoning is flawed but, I'm never confident. It's a problem.

And Dormio, I'm not saying he's scum and we should lynch him or anything. Just throwing out a wild crackpot theory. Though I do think we should keep an eye on him. But then again we should probably keep an eye on everyone. As the wisemen say, trust nobody not even yourself.

[raikaria]

Couple of things:

1: Today I'm doing my IRL stuff due to weather being better than tomorrow.

2: What are we doing regarding this maintenance and potential read-only status?

If I get the time I'll do my promised re-read and stuff today, otherwise I'll 100% do it tomorrow.

[NekoNekoRex]

DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Kilo

Bardiche (1) - Serela, Yaersulf
zwerdjib (1) - Dormio
Serela (1) - Bardiche
Raikaria (1) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (1) - Yaersulf
NucleusWaffles (0) - Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Yaersulf (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (6) - Daiya, Beru, NucleusWaffles, meow56, Raikaria, zwerdjib

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

[Serela]

it's been 24 hours and the number of posts is less than the number of living players

i understand the game has 5 day deadlines because it goes to nuclear wasteland on d3 but until we start getting nuke flips man this is just painful.

where's that chart of 'length of deadline' to 'scumhunting ability' again

this is what i meant day one by 'there's not enough pressure' when bard was like 'wow serela you aren't doing it yourself /vote', no, without the pressure of an IMPENDING DEADLINE everyone just lays there and goes zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ok sorry i'm ranting because i just woke up, let me hit send and start a new post where i actually play mafia

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.

[Serela]

2: What are we doing regarding this maintenance and potential read-only status?

I'm not the mod but, it seems like the read-only warning is just a potential risk and not really guaranteed so hey, if it doesn't happen, nothing to worry about

and if it does go under for 12 hours, there's still like 2 more days to deadline after that, so, :shrug:
------------------------------------------------------
OK MAFIA

OK Bard, you're defending most of your points, but the issue is... sure, if those half-opinions were declarations of scumminess, your position is somewhat better than before, but it doesn't really change the main point of my case; your d1 behavior looks like you found an easy vote and proceeded to mostly stop playing after.

After the first ~24 hours of d1 you still only had a tiny blip where you dropped a vote on me and the one post where, while you at least claim they were moreso accusations of scumminess than they look at first glance, I still stand by you barely have to skim the thread to make the points inside. I like how your argument with Waffles is that clearly since his posts are insane you must have read them, when I think the opposite is true, they were incoherent enough no one needs to have read them to make vague gestures suggesting it's not town motivated :U  He did get sane late in the day and make stuff that was legible but even then most people seemed to kind of ignore it in favor of the earlier posts.

It's scummy of you to play passively when it gets to the point you aren't even doing the bare minimum of seeming to care about how the game is going? How about that time where deadline is approaching, you're voteparking a wagon that doesn't seem to be going anywhere, you aren't even SLIGHTLY attempting to get them lynched (not seeing a reason to unvote me is barely even justification to keep voting me through deadline consolidation, much less to invigorate a dead wagon), and you don't make even a vague comment about the people who -are- looking like potential lynches? It's like you had zero interest in the lynch that would occur, e.g. you don't care because they're not your scumbuddies so it's all good etc, and considering how the day actually played out you certainly were distanced from it, considering you never mentioned in the -entirety of d1- the people who mainly did end up on the chopping block.

cut by dormio, i still stand by my earlier opinion that if I had a second vote it'd be on zwerdjib right now

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.

##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib
Ok, but tomorrow you do me a solid and roll with me on Raik, deal?

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Although in joining you on this Dormio, I'd like to know, where would a Zwerd scumflip point you next? Are there any players you see as buddies?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Paranoia!Dorm says Daiya. Like, despite saying that Daiya is scum repeatedly, zwerdjib has been extremely adverse to actually pushing for that lynch which makes me think that there's a reason he isn't committing there.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Ok fair, do you think Daiya is scummy individually?

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

I wish active lurking = scum in this game but then we'd have at least a 5 player scumteam lmao

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Daiya is more of a void given the relative lack of content. This also applies to more than half of the players in the game. So that's fun.

[Yaersulf]

I'm liking this lynch Zwerd idea, he's definitely in my top 3 for most lynchable.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Daiya is more of a void given the relative lack of content. This also applies to more than half of the players in the game. So that's fun.

See, I think Daiya's posts in D1 were pretty solidly town, but today has been concerning activity-wise, hopefully they deliver a post that makes me feel good again soon.

[NekoNekoRex]

☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 2

hsocb qypkz zxvbo yfzld fqkdy jizkx fxysm fdyuf qbnmn rqqdk uvneo uyrvg stpri elgji fqiws hsfoc yjjpw luqqr mzpot vqjbe vwzoy bvdyr sabey cgnfm tgwym nequr ebkai s

[NucleusWaffles]

I am really comfortable with where I am parking this vote.

##Vote Yaersulf

[NucleusWaffles]

Just to make sure I get this right; I rescind my townread because Yaersulf has suddenly dropped in activity and switched style again, so it has been votepark>baton>votepark+lurk with three style changes in a single game.

All style changes have been pointed out by other players, too, so that's really helpful associative analysis.

I strongly associate this with new!scum behaviour, so that's where I want the lynch to go today.

[Zoomy Tsugumi]

Dude the whole game has dropped in activity

[raikaria]

Well; it's Tuesday, I woke up early.

Starting to re-read stuff. Hopefully I can find something to give the game a kick up the rear end.

[raikaria]

i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig

First thing I want to point out; I don't recall Zwerdjib specifically rescinding this opinion. But at the same time, he didn't push for this again at DEFCON 3. Not really a scum thing, more a 'he never actually said he dropped this opinion' thing.

if i die n1 dont be surprised

This suggests zwerdjib hasn't read the rules and setup. Or is feigning ignorance. Combined with his Massclaim suggestion which I myself pointed out as giving scum more information than town, could be a minor scumtell?

haven't read through the original defcon yet, but i do find myself doubting the usefulness of the eavesdropper. it sounds cool and op on paper (in mons, 30% is practically guaranteed), but with its presence itg already known, I feel like it could be used by the scumteam to spread disinformation.

Interesting point here, although at the same time; the scumteam cannot control when the 30% procs either; so that strategy is a little difficult.

---

I don't like Waffle's push on Dormio... for being Dormio. Something like that has a 1/3 chance of hitting scum [4/12]. Actually looking for scum on the basis of... looking for scum should improve those odds.

---

zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?

Oh; Meow actually did call him out on it. I must have missed that. Did I mention I'm giving 'as-i-read' commentry?

SOU DA!

im an air base

[airplane noises]

your turn

and everyone elses turn

including raikaria

so far we have nucleus is a silo and i am an airbase

Why is Zwerdjib so specifically targeting me here? Is it because of my opposition to the massclaim? I was certainly the most vocal about it to be fair.

And Zwerdjib immediately votes Daiya for refusing the massclaim, but never takes that stance against me.

does
scum raikaria know to not publically act anti-town???? i don't know do they


raikaria has played a lot of mafia games.

And I think I've only ever rolled scum like; twice.

What differentiates Daiya from the other people who have made 1~3 posts of no significance?

This quote really sums up this game @_@

---

OK, I'm a bit behind, but some thoughts:
I don't agree with Waffles' push on Dormio, but I don't think it's necessarily scummy. I can't see why a scum would do that at the start of the game.
Mass-claiming this early is objectively bad, so don't do it. Why do you want a mass-claim, @zwerdjib?

I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?

---CONFIRMED TOWNIE POV---

Coolio.
Got anything to add other than an OMGUS?

The Dormio-Zwejdjib spat kinda gets to this point where Zwed is voting Dormio basically for voting him. I don't think the accusation of Tunnelling is inherently a bad thing to do [I've pointed out that Zoomy is tunnelling a bit] but there's a difference between encourageing someone to comment on other things and actually voting someone for tunnelling on you.

---

Jumping to End-Of-Day1:

Yearsulf has been on Abu for a while.

Zoomy is the first to switch to Abu; basically saying 'Raikaria isn't happen let's lynch a lurker'.

Zwerd switches to Abu with his resoning basically just being 'Zoomy is doing it'.

Beru Not Me Over Me's - fair enough. This makes Abu the largest wagon.

Daiya; Serela and Meow all seem to just consolidate due to near-deadline.

I mean technically Zoomy is the ringleader for the mislynch, but as I said earlier, it was a consolidation on a lurker that most people had already said they were fine with lynching so I can't read too much into it. Except that Zoomy is semi-tunnelling on a town lynch since Mid Day 1. Except I don't have any evidence that I'm Town to prove to you guys, and I think Zoomy is misguided Town rather than scum so...

---

sure

valid criticism

i dont have anything to say

or maybe i do have a lot to say and im just very not motivated to play the game knowing that dormio will hang onto every excuse he can muster until he finally gets me lynched for some reason

I don't like this sort of attitude; especially since it fits in with Zwerd's previous scum game. Active D1, falls off into the background and loses motivation after that.

I don't really feel like any of this dissuades my scumread on you. This just means you still don't even have a basic reads list by this point in day 2 lol. And no, it most certainly isn't a crime to share opinions, but it's a copout when you've not done so much by yourself.

And if it seems like I'm tunneling, I mean I'm not gonna deny that I'm focusing my attenion on you but that's because I want you lynched because I think you're scum and I'm trying to get others to think that way too. It's the name of the game lol.

Except I gave a basic reads list and even somewhat ordered my priority towards the end of Day 1? Or is a list of who I'd rather lynch not a 'basic reads list'. Opinions are reads.

In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.

I'm not sure what your obsession with reads lists is. I personally do not think we should give *full* read lists because it creates a town consensus as to who is town. This; in turn, paints massive targets on their backs saying 'SHOOT HERE'.

However; there's a difference between being opposed to giving a full reads list and:

not sure

Also:

I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.

Dormio; I'm gonna have to agree with Zwerd on one matter: You are tunnelling. You've said little~nothing about any other player. Can you please comment on some other matters as well as voting for Zwerd? I'm not asking you to change votes or anything, I'm just simply asking for you to do something other than tunnel Zwerd.

##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib
Ok, but tomorrow you do me a solid and roll with me on Raik, deal?

I REALLY do not like this stance; and it has basically removed my prior townread on Zoomy.

However I don't think it's worse than Zwerdjib's decline in effort; posting quality; various points made against him which I somewhat agree with, and the simple meta that this is exactly what he did last time he was scum.

##Vote: Zwerdjib