Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Game Over!)

[BigBangMeteor]

ok I'm fairly sure what happened was when I was making my tier list earlier today I grouped daiya in a similar tier as a bunch of actual new players and then started just thinking he was also a new player with barely any posts for some reason. it's abundantly clear that uh daiya is not new and also that i have terrible memory because I read all his posts like last night and definitely did not think he was new then.

i suppose it's true that daiya could have just switched his vote for consolidation purposes (though it's an awkward way of going about it) so I'll grant the point that there's a world where scum daiya switches his vote from town to town players. unfortunately i have to go and dont have time to re-assess everything rn

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
Disquieted (4): NekoNekoRex, Serela, banana spritzee, BigBangMeteor
Serela (2): Tom, Polaris
NucleusWaffles (2): Yaersulf, PX
Polaris (1): Daiya
Daiya (1): Disquieted
NekoNekoRex (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
banana spritzee (0):
Tom (0):
Fabloo (0):
raikaria (0):
Yaersulf (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 11 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Fabloo, NucleusWaffles, raikaria

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

[Tom]

Okay, a lot happened while I was away, been a busy day.
Been reading up to this point and my interest has indeed moved from Serela to Disquieted.  I still read Serela as possible-scum but I'm going to help pressure Disquieted.

## Unvote
## Vote Disquieted

[Fabloo]

:

I'm bad.



You're bad and what?



Scum?



No, proud.



I'm bad and I'm proud.



Good, say it louder.



I'm bad and I'm proud.

Louder.

I'm bad and I'm proud.

I'M BAD AND I'M PROUD.

I'M BAD AND I'M PROUD.



I AM BAD AND I AM PROUD.



I AM BAD AND I AM PROUD.



..Is that what he calls it?

[Disquieted]

Okay, a lot happened while I was away, been a busy day.
Been reading up to this point and my interest has indeed moved from Serela to Disquieted.  I still read Serela as possible-scum but I'm going to help pressure Disquieted.

## Unvote
## Vote Disquieted

This doesn't make any sense.

[Disquieted]

Fabloo, you know how to answer this question with the correct amount of disquiet. NucleusWaffles has a role that targets players of a particular gender. It's, according to Nucleus, weak, but it's pretty clear Nucleus may not be the best judge of character on mafia mechanics.

Please take note of my first sentence and perhaps consider this a rhetorical question. What could this role possibly be?

[Fabloo]

Fabloo, you know how to answer this question with the correct amount of disquiet. NucleusWaffles has a role that targets players of a particular gender. It's, according to Nucleus, weak, but it's pretty clear Nucleus may not be the best judge of character on mafia mechanics.

Please take note of my first sentence and perhaps consider this a rhetorical question. What could this role possibly be?

Flavor cop most likely.

[Fabloo]

I've already alluded to my opinion further on this. Yes I am just dropping the role it correlates to. I don't do role spec often but it's clear to me that there is an important male character likely in this game. He has red hair.

[Disquieted]

If it's a flavour cop, why get a pass or fail based on gender?

If it's a flavour cop, why doesn't he say who he copped?

[Disquieted]

Oh I can't read. Nevermind.

[Fabloo]

I can tell you that regardless I don't townread him as much anymore. If at all.

[Disquieted]

I don't know what to think about him, to be honest. Take the claim out of the way and you have a player like Serela or raikaria, which isn't damning at all, it's just a statement of playstyle. Every single word I'm reading from him isn't very alignment indicative, and he's dodging questions about his role cause he can and nobody's going to raise an eyebrow.

The game seems to be full of traditionalists that like finding what is traditionally scummy. It's Day 2 and his only interesting read is that he's scumreading two masons and his conversation with Yaersulf is pretty intractable. He's posting nothing that contributes to the thread or really tries to.

Obviously this sounds like a scumread, doesn't it.

I assume you're here for conversation.

[Fabloo]

I'm here. What do you think of my previous musings? The ones on this page? Something's wrong if You/Serela/Daiya are all scum.

[NucleusWaffles]

I am actually here for a conservation, I read up a bit and may have missed a few details, but I am sure we can work it out.

I don't like Fabloo and your masons claim, your D1 defense was that you are an omnipotent god in terms of town power level, which is definitely to be respected.
However, I dislike how you also constantly try to delve into role shenanigans along with Disquieted, especially when  town investigation roles need time to accumulate evidence and present reads in a way that can convince the majority.

You don't sound like someone who's got dirt on another person but is equally unsure if that dirt is just imagination, which is where I am coming from.

Frankly, I cant seem to empathise with you being in a position of power too myself. I would think, "If I were this role with access to this plus that restriction plus that flavour which I can use, I definitely would not draw attention to these very useful last resort tools at the start of the game"

Therefore, I agree with Disquieted to an extent I have a traditionalist mindset, but that's about all.

[Fabloo]

Constantly is a huge stretch. This is the only time we've talked about it. As in right now.

[NucleusWaffles]

How scum do you think you look in my eyes?

[Fabloo]

I don't know. I think I would like you to be scum more than you actually being scum if that makes sense. I can't piece together what's going on this game basically.

[NucleusWaffles]

Fabloo, who should I vote other than myself?

[Fabloo]

Uh. I would say a vote on Serela/Disquieted right now is fine? The way you phrase that is so odd though.

[Disquieted]

I'm here. What do you think of my previous musings? The ones on this page? Something's wrong if You/Serela/Daiya are all scum.

I mean. You seem to be asking the wrong person by definition. But I'll try.

This game is hard. Write down the fact that people can't string together coherent teams and are just opting for their top scumread and not thinking about reevaluation and that's the harsh truth people are avoiding. Game's hard.

The game is significantly harder because... I don't know if this is the norm or not but you say Daiya's on an island? Everyone's on an island. I could go into how this is a problem but I don't really want to, I'm just going to state the problem and that it exists.

It just so happens that 

a) Serela is a traditional punching bag as far as I can tell regardless of his alignment
b) people just really don't like how I post and maybe NNR is helping out with that.

The top wagons are not cause you all agree we're scum, but you all think we exhibit the same scum characteristics. There's no conversation. The most amount of conversation people have had involve NucleusWaffles and Yaersulf which is... it's NucleusWaffles. And me and BBM, which is a conversation about a very inconsequential point, and I had to actually care for five whole minutes.

And that's how mafia works, I suppose.

Nine times out of ten this is what happens. Day 1, we lynch a lurker cause that's all anyone's going to agree on. Day 2, NNR is going to flip strawberriess and Serela goes under pressure cause it's Day 2 and he's posting like Serela.

My point is that regardless of the alignment of the people involved, this was always going to happen and trying to write this as "yes, scum are definitely are in these slots" is lazy. But I don't think anyone really cares or thinks about it. Out of everyone else, BBM is struggling and nobody else really cares.

I don't know where I'm going with this. Hm.

Do you understand the concept of information instead of analysis? Scum generally have problems forming reads, so they instead restate what happened in the thread and don't actually formulate read logic. They just state what happened. I don't actually know who you're talking about and if you're talking about me, that's funny I guess. but maybe consider that.

I'll figure out where I want to go with this. Cause right now I am very aware I don't have a real scumteam right now and I'm thinking about it. Just some thoughts, since you wanted thoughts.

[Disquieted]

I dunno. I'm hungry.

[Fabloo]

Do you understand the concept of information instead of analysis? Scum generally have problems forming reads, so they instead restate what happened in the thread and don't actually formulate read logic. They just state what happened. I don't actually know who you're talking about and if you're talking about me, that's funny I guess. but maybe consider that.

I'll figure out where I want to go with this. Cause right now I am very aware I don't have a real scumteam right now and I'm thinking about it. Just some thoughts, since you wanted thoughts.

Yeah I get this. What you're saying right now I feel most represents Daiya though? Do you agree?

[Disquieted]

Like, who do people want to push?

Yaersulf and Tom's newbies. You don't push newbies, the first lynch was a newbie.

The claimed PR, NucleusWaffles?

The guy who just got replaced in, Banana Spritzee?

NNR? The last person who did that is getting strawberries on.

Polaris? BBM? They post fifty words a post and are clearly invested in the game regardless of their alignment, so they're clearly town, right?

Or do you push the person who refuses to play in status quo, and Serela, for being Serela?

I dunno. It's not a matter of whether we're scum or not, but instead a matter of the easiest pushes. And this is why I don't push Polaris, because what's the point if I write 300 words and nobody follows me (a concept that I hate in the first place anyways)?

Conqueror, sb and zwerdjib weren't easy lynches, but they were the scumteam. And I didn't get purchase pushing on the first two despite me being many times more confident they were scum than anything else in this game, because they posted words. So tell me, why should I care about pushing my scumreads, if everyone is on an island?

You can go back to your wagons now. I added nothing to the conversation.

[Disquieted]

Yeah I get this. What you're saying right now I feel most represents Daiya though? Do you agree?

In terms of being an easy lynch, or IIOA? I have to review Daiya in a bit. Maybe the second might be a thing, I'd have to reread, but from my memory I don't remember it being a thing.

The first is obviously yes. Hah.

[Fabloo]

Actually that represents Raikara to a pretty big extent too.

When it comes to my problem with you it's unfinished honestly. Serela being the punching bag is a good observation. However from what I read a lot of people are hesitant about him.

This is my personal opinion about scum behavior also related to how I usually play. Scum usually don't scumread their partners unless they're making a move. Whether it be distancing or going for a bus. Nothing so far suggests to me bussing is happening. This is my 100% hubris looking at the game. Very often scum are perfectly fine with calling their mates townies and giving them false credibility so town look elsewhere.

What's happening right however is that everyone is accusing everyone. If I look at this thread right now it goes something like this.

Serela accuses You (Disquieted) who accuses Daiya a bit as well.
Daiya accuses Polaris. Says he wants to look in You/Serela.
Polaris accuses You and also accuses Daiya a bit as well. Also doesn't like banana I guess.
Raikara
You accuse..who again? Fill this in.
Raikara accuses BBM, Tom, Yearsulf and you a bit as well.

I just realized that everyone has dipped in their fingers in the Daiya suspicion while doing this. Something is off.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
Disquieted (5): NekoNekoRex, Serela, banana spritzee, BigBangMeteor, Tom (L-2)
NucleusWaffles (2): Yaersulf, PX
Serela (1): Polaris
Polaris (1): Daiya
Daiya (1): Disquieted
NekoNekoRex (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
banana spritzee (0):
Tom (0):
Fabloo (0):
raikaria (0):
Yaersulf (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 11 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Fabloo, NucleusWaffles, raikaria
Disquieted is at L-2!

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

[Disquieted]

That's an accurate observation. I scumread Daiya.

Yes, it also represents raikaria. I believe the excuse for not voting raikaria is "I hope he doesn't die of coronavirus." If you're talking about how raikaria reads people, I'm pretty sure he's like this regardless of alignment.

[Fabloo]

Right now I think going in You/Serela/Daiya is the best option only because if we don't then this will probably continue. I don't think the team comprises of you 3 anymore. I think at best one of them is just making the best out of a somewhat bad situation. I just remember last game where Conqueror was able to sit on his reads for a very long time because we kept pushing circular logic. Then we finally got rid of problem players and scum revealed themselves as there was no longer anything to do.

[Fabloo]

That's an accurate observation. I scumread Daiya.

Yes, it also represents raikaria. I believe the excuse for not voting raikaria is "I hope he doesn't die of coronavirus." If you're talking about how raikaria reads people, I'm pretty sure he's like this regardless of alignment.

So answer me this. Everyone so far has said something negative or suspected Daiya. Is he just a black sheep?

[Serela]

I'm not gonna pretend the game isn't going kinda awkwardly, it totally is

We have several people who are nearly nonexistent (at least one is a mason, but still), and no one knows what to do relating to the new players I think, including the new players, adding several more ???? slots. This adds up into like... what, 7 slots in these areas?

When half of the game falls into these parameters, I think the cohesion of the game takes a big hit, but what can you do? :S

Since I know someone (POLLY) will probably ask how this factors into my smartbomb read, I think being frustrated with the gamestate is alignment neutral, especially considering it's with a huge wagon on himself.

This game is hard. Write down the fact that people can't string together coherent teams and are just opting for their top scumread and not thinking about reevaluation and that's the harsh truth people are avoiding. Game's hard.

Although, I will say, like... where you play mafia do people actually try to scumhunt with the entire scumteam in mind before any of them have actually flipped???? Because even when motk mafia was more generally cohesive, the general mindset is definitely to just go with top scumreads until you actually get far enough to be able to worry about entire scumteams. You might post a musing or two about a potential pairing as you argue one of them is scum, but it's really not important until someone's flipped red.

oh wow 5 more cuts
eh, scum bus too. Some people have meta for bussing more aggressively than others but I can't remember who, it's been like seven years. Affinity, but he's not playing right now :U Trying to pick out what is and isn't a bus is an art. Scum do totally like to give buddies town passes when they don't think their buddies will be lynched anytime soon tho. But when you think a buddy -is- liable to be lynched, delicious town cred!!