| ~Beyond the Border~ > Akyuu's Arcade |
| Magic the Gathering/TCG thread: Secret Lairs and Oko scares |
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| PX:
cEDH has been really fun to watch and I've even sold out of all constructed to make a 75% power deck. Unfortunately Thassa's Oracle has kind of broken it a bit and made flash hulk way too powerful as well as just being a dumb card in general |
| commandercool:
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'm selling it short. I'm definitely not claiming to be informed. I get that on a fundamental level "winning with combat damage every game" is the same as winning with a linear combo every game, but if I won by dumping a ton of counters onto hydras at instant speed every game I would get bored. Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's a huge Hadana's Climb+Kiora Behemoth Beckoner turn, sometimes it's blowing up my own huge Hooded Hydra, etc. One guy in our group somehow back-doored into a deck that always ends up winning by making a million copies of Murkfiend Liege and he completely restructured the deck after like the fifth time it happened because it was too repetitive. Winning with combat damage in new and stupid ways is preferable. Do stax decks slow down the game? I know the defense is always that people who grind games to a crawl with them are just playing them wrong, but my main point of experience with stax is in powered cube and the stax jackass in those always drags the event on for hours past when it would have ended by making every game they play take twice as long as anyone else. |
| Framboise:
--- Quote from: PX on March 16, 2020, 07:06:31 PM ---cEDH has been really fun to watch and I've even sold out of all constructed to make a 75% power deck. Unfortunately Thassa's Oracle has kind of broken it a bit and made flash hulk way too powerful as well as just being a dumb card in general --- End quote --- While one can argue LabMan effects like Oracle are overpowered, I don't think it deserves the ban-- the enablers do. In my opinion, Flash absolutely needs to go (because if it's not an Oracle combo, there are countless other instant-win combos with Flash Hulk), and probably Demonic Consultation (as much as I love the card). Tainted Pact too, maybe, but Pact decks have the weakness of having to build a singleton manabase and gets shut out hard by stax like Blood Moon and Back to Basics. --- Quote from: commandercool on March 16, 2020, 08:46:38 PM ---Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'm selling it short. I'm definitely not claiming to be informed. I get that on a fundamental level "winning with combat damage every game" is the same as winning with a linear combo every game, but if I won by dumping a ton of counters onto hydras at instant speed every game I would get bored. Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's a huge Hadana's Climb+Kiora Behemoth Beckoner turn, sometimes it's blowing up my own huge Hooded Hydra, etc. One guy in our group somehow back-doored into a deck that always ends up winning by making a million copies of Murkfiend Liege and he completely restructured the deck after like the fifth time it happened because it was too repetitive. Winning with combat damage in new and stupid ways is preferable. Do stax decks slow down the game? I know the defense is always that people who grind games to a crawl with them are just playing them wrong, but my main point of experience with stax is in powered cube and the stax jackass in those always drags the event on for hours past when it would have ended by making every game they play take twice as long as anyone else. --- End quote --- I think we're ultimately arguing taste as far as wincons go-- most cEDH decks don't have just one win condition and part of the challenge is knowing when to go for your combo or when to pivot into a more defensive position while you search up a safer but often more expensive combo line. There's plenty of times cEDH games win with something stupid. Not all the time, but it's not uncommon. As far as stax goes, yes-- the whole point is to slow things down and there's no better format for stax than cEDH in my opinion. Playing control against 3 other players is sisyphean-- there's not enough counterspells in a deck to keep everyone from going off. Stax are symmetrical hate pieces that stop the fast combo decks from going off while you get time to assemble your own combo. In many cases, good stax decks will have ways to break parity so that they are not equally yoked by the hate pieces. For example, running graveyard hate when none of your cards care about the graveyard; running creature hate when you run few creatures; running artifact hate like Null Rod/Collector Ouphe when your deck doesn't revolve around artifacts, and so on. The stax I mentioned in my Chain Veil Teferi deck, specifically, revolve around Stasis and Back to Basics. I break parity HARD on Back to Basics because the vast majority of my manabase is basic Islands. I break parity on Stasis with Teferi on the field, as one of his abilities allow me to untap permanents, which allows me to keep it up for a good long while. A stax deck whose only goal is to lock the board up so no one can play-- including themselves-- is stupid. A good stax deck has a plan to play around the restrictions while everyone else is gummed up. EDIT: Stax are not always heavy "You can't do this" restrictions, either. Cards like Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora are great because either your opponents play around them (the right decision), or ignore them while the user gains great advantage (the wrong decision). Taxes are very valid. That's the reason why I like my Tymna/Kraum deck-- Kraum himself is a very deceptive stax piece that says I draw a card if an opponent chooses to play more than one spell a turn. Same goes for Smothering Tithe, aka "one of my new favorite cards in recent history". No one wants to pay for drawing a card, so you gain tons of treasure, especially if they start playing greedy draw spells. Basically, stax is anything that punishes greedy plays. Sometimes it's light like taxes with choices, sometimes it's as backbreaking as Stasis. |
| commandercool:
Well, looks like Flash is finally banned in Commander. And Lutri, which a bunch of people on Twitter seem to be outraged by and I can't really figure out why. The Ikoria Commander decks have a controversial cycle of free spells in them, I guess they're really good but none of them seem so high-impact that I'm worried about them ruining my casual games. I don't know how competitive players feel about them. And we got a Sultai hydra commander shortly after I finished my Kruphix hydra deck, so I guess I gotta figure out how to make room for a third color. |
| T-A-C:
I haven't really touched Commander at all lately due to not having a venue to play it in, but the decks look good. Kathril looks like my favorite out of the bunch. I've played a lot of Ikoria draft since it launched and I'm having a lot of fun with it so far. There's just something about how this format works that makes it really satisfying to piece decks together |
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