Author Topic: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?  (Read 3732 times)

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SeroVich

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In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« on: April 14, 2024, 03:09:05 PM »
I'll start: For me, it is the picture taking danmaku spin-offs of Touhou (like Touhou 9.5, 12.5, and 16.5). They are just downright cruel and unfair, giving you no chance to have a breathing space. And if you like those games, then congrats! You have a better mindset and more mentally stronger than me.  :meiling:
"Thou art a genius." - Tomo Takino, Chapter 1; Page 38

Suspicious person

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2024, 09:55:02 PM »
Honestly it's gotta be the PC 98 games for me : they generally don't boast of the visual flair and balancing the newer entries (including classical era games) do, have visibility issues plus nasty flashes, take a lot of effort to get and set up (I haven't ever touched those things) for what they are, and have somewhat esoteric gameplay systems that you wouldn't know if you didn't study them beforehand. Lack of canon relevance plus extra goofy dialogue could probably also count.

I think as a piece of media they deserve respect for setting touhou in it's very early days, but I've never understood why some of this series's most extreme detractors put them above newer entries in term of quality.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2024, 10:53:05 PM »
18 killed my hopes of the series ever getting good again. ZUN threw all his ideas that could've been used for later games into the card system and didn't even bother to balance them. And it's pretty much a gacha, killing all interest in full runs due to RNG. Story and aesthetics-wise it didn't catch my eye at all, not even negatively like 17's. As for music, I want to apologize for bashing 17, since that one at least still HAD a style, whereas 18's is about as generic as it gets.

While there are quite a few older games I don't like playing, I can acknowledge they can be fun with certain mindsets. After 18, all I can do is wonder why anyone even bothers with what's going on with the series anymore.

williewillus

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2024, 05:27:44 AM »
Probably HRTP, though I've never played it. It just doesn't seem like that good of a time.
VD is really jank, and HBM is close behind it. Though I find HBM's jank slightly charming in its own way.
SoEW is also extremely jank and the worst of the 4 PC98 shmups.
So those four games probably.

I don't really agree that the other scene danmaku games were that bad, stb and DS are both pretty nice.

As for music, I want to apologize for bashing 17, since that one at least still HAD a style, whereas 18's is about as generic as it gets.

18's music definitely does have a very distinctive style. I would describe it as very "fresh" sounding, he's switched to tighter drums, and really dialed up use of more unusual instruments like guitar, flute, erhu, and voice. People call it more repetitive, but I just think modern tracks tend to do more buildup, and thus fit better when listened to in the context of their game (which is all ZUN cares about, and the reason why he never actually releases plain OST CD's for the games: the game is the OST)
In general, 18, 18.5, 19, and oneoffs like Every Day a Red Day and Independent Simulacrum all define ZUN's modern style pretty well, though it's still evolving continuously.

18's OST has a couple duds (namely the two Stage 2 themes), but many other themes left a pretty strong impression on me -- Stage 1 is another short and sweet banger with an earwormy melody, Stage 3 is one of ZUN's only major key compositions, Stage 4 has the Hifuu-like flamenco guitar, Stage 5 meshes with the stage background and presentation to really sell the sunset setting, and Extra is probably in my top 3 extra stage themes due to how hard it goes.

After 18, all I can do is wonder why anyone even bothers with what's going on with the series anymore.

Ouch. Good thing we can bother, and you don't have to :P
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 05:32:57 AM by williewillus »

SeroVich

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2024, 12:00:03 PM »
18 killed my hopes of the series ever getting good again. ZUN threw all his ideas that could've been used for later games into the card system and didn't even bother to balance them. And it's pretty much a gacha, killing all interest in full runs due to RNG. Story and aesthetics-wise it didn't catch my eye at all, not even negatively like 17's. As for music, I want to apologize for bashing 17, since that one at least still HAD a style, whereas 18's is about as generic as it gets.

While there are quite a few older games I don't like playing, I can acknowledge they can be fun with certain mindsets. After 18, all I can do is wonder why anyone even bothers with what's going on with the series anymore.

Oof, that's tragic... So, does it mean you're not going to play any Touhou games after 18, even if you're curious??  :meiling:
"Thou art a genius." - Tomo Takino, Chapter 1; Page 38

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2024, 01:13:29 PM »
Oof, that's tragic... So, does it mean you're not going to play any Touhou games after 18, even if you're curious??  :meiling:

Considering latest game I care to play nowadays is 15, and where the series has been going these days, I'm just tired of holding on to hope. There's always a chance things might get interesting again... but at this point I would say it's more likely for Kentaro Miura to come back to life and personally draw the rest of Berserk in a flash.

SeroVich

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2024, 02:17:51 PM »
Considering latest game I care to play nowadays is 15, and where the series has been going these days, I'm just tired of holding on to hope. There's always a chance things might get interesting again... but at this point I would say it's more likely for Kentaro Miura to come back to life and personally draw the rest of Berserk in a flash.

I see your point and I understand you, especially with what happened with Touhou 19... *shudders...*
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 03:09:29 PM by SeroVich »
"Thou art a genius." - Tomo Takino, Chapter 1; Page 38

HartWurst

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2024, 03:01:59 PM »
When it comes to mainline Touhou games there's not really many I dislike, but for some reason I really can't get myself to enjoy Ten Desires. It's not a bad Touhou game but something about it just makes it hard to enjoy for me.

ZUN threw all his ideas that could've been used for later games into the card system and didn't even bother to balance them. And it's pretty much a gacha, killing all interest in full runs due to RNG.

I feel like Touhou 18 was intended for more casual players with the card system, since it helps make trying again more appealing due to having access to new and potentially stronger cards. At the same time though I feel like Touhou 15 did that better as Point Device Mode lets new players practice as many times as needed while having a more interesting story and music.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2024, 04:25:50 PM »
When it comes to mainline Touhou games there's not really many I dislike, but for some reason I really can't get myself to enjoy Ten Desires. It's not a bad Touhou game but something about it just makes it hard to enjoy for me.

I remember not liking it too much when I was concentrating purely on survival, but found it way more fun when I started going for score. The last boss in particular is somewhat disappointing, but feels hilarious when you just go full XXC on her and hear the sound of turbocollecting spirits. Some games are just like that, being obviously made for mechanics where you have to consider your survival resources as scoring opportunities rather than safety net.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2024, 04:52:42 PM »
Of the few games I've played, probably PCB. It feels like the slowest game to me, although I play on easy or normal so maybe that has some effect? I still enjoy it in the later stages, though.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2024, 01:09:27 PM »
Of the few games I've played, probably PCB. It feels like the slowest game to me, although I play on easy or normal so maybe that has some effect? I still enjoy it in the later stages, though.
I also don't really like PCB (I generally don't like all the odd numbered Touhou games except 9), but it has nothing to do with gameplay, it's merely a question of aesthetic.

williewillus

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2024, 04:39:22 PM »
Thinking about it, I actually don't really play the old trilogy that much. Played a lot of EoSD when I started, and got Lunatic clears in both PCB and IN too, but haven't really gone back to explore more of the games.

I think I tend to like the newer games more (especially lolk, my favorite alongside eosd), because I like modern ZUN music more than classical era, and music tends to drive which games I play.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2024, 06:01:34 PM »
Yeah the newer games seem a lot more polished and faster-paced to me. But, IN will forever be one of my favorites just because it was my first <3 (also I love its theme; it's consistent across the entire game)

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2024, 05:36:51 PM »
Newer games I barely care about aside, the only one I played seriously but can't help but dislike is UFO. It's too visually busy, UFO chains are too easy to fail, and overall it feels just a bit too hard for comfort. It's the only pre-15 game I never managed to 1cc on Normal.

Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2024, 07:31:47 AM »
Thinking about it, I actually don't really play the old trilogy that much. Played a lot of EoSD when I started, and got Lunatic clears in both PCB and IN too, but haven't really gone back to explore more of the games.

I think I tend to like the newer games more (especially lolk, my favorite alongside eosd), because I like modern ZUN music more than classical era, and music tends to drive which games I play.

For me it's the exact opposite, Touhou 6-8 are my favourite games in the series. To me they feel so full of life and emotions because of the music and the substantially different artstyle compared to the new games. They are also the games I've played the most. After them I really like Touhou 10 and 15, 10 as it really matches the vibe of the previous games while having a more polished game engine. I like Touhou 15 because it's hard, challenging and has some of the greatest tracks of the whole Touhou OST.

SeroVich

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Re: In your opinion, what is the worst Touhou game to you?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2024, 07:15:04 AM »
Probably HRTP, though I've never played it. It just doesn't seem like that good of a time.

Aww, c'mon..! It is fun, addicting and absolutely didn't destroy me mentally (ᵔ◡ᵔ).
"Thou art a genius." - Tomo Takino, Chapter 1; Page 38