Author Topic: Touhou 19: 東方獣王園 〜 Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost (Full release!)  (Read 14218 times)

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Karisa

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Steam page:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2400340/Touhou_Juuouen__Unfinished_Dream_of_All_Living_Ghost/

Official announcement (in Japanese):
https://touhou-project.news/news/8892/

Quote from: DeepL machine translation, with character names fixed
~ Story.
Due to the opening of the market, the ownership of the ancient land has been lost.
The land that lost its owner will become desolate.
But there is no need to worry.
The spirits will naturally take possession of the land and it will regain its usual tightness.

Unless there are greedy beasts there. ......

 This time, it's an unusual game of competitive bullets against the world.
 
 The screen structure is based on "Touhou Kaeizuka," the ninth installment in the Touhou Project, but the system has been restructured so that the feel of the controls and the barrage is closer to that of the usual Touhou games.
 It is a speedy competitive game that requires constant improvised dodging, and simply put, the higher the Touhou ability, the more advantageous the game is.
 
 The massive story mode is designed to be enjoyed by a single player with a somewhat different system than the competitive mode, so don't worry if you don't have any friends. (Incidentally, the story also tests your Eastern ability.)
 
 Enjoy the dark, energetic, and slightly cute beasts of the mad party.
 
 Here are some snapshots.

   *The screenshots are under development and will change soon.

 The game is scheduled to be released in the summer.
 The demo version will be distributed at the Hakurei-jinja Festival on May 7 (Sun.) at the Big Sight.
 (Space: A01ab, Shanghai Alice Phantom Band)
 
 We will also have a downloadable version on Steam.

 The demo version will be available for 5 characters: Reimu Hakurei, Marisa Kirisame, Aunn Komano, Nazrin, and Seiran.
 *Because of the character restrictions, the storyline of the demo version is different from that of the full version.

 See you soon.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2023, 09:44:01 AM by Karisa »

OkuuFallout

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Another thing to note is what Twitter user @richard_effendi said, who is a prominent fan in the English community that usually helps with translations.

https://twitter.com/richard_effendi/status/1648182398251835392?s=20

Quote
For the record, the Japanese title of the game is "Beast King's Garden", so, despite the English subtitle mentioning ghosts, unless Mima is the Beast King, it's unlikely for her to return in this game.

Suspicious person

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Oh wow, the announcement was expected as we are nearing the titular announcement beriod before Reitaisai, but never would have thought that this time we would receive a phantasmagoria-style game (which incidentally may stop getting called phantasmagoria games with this one). The screenshots this time seems to be pretty stacked with bits of pieces of informations :


First things first, seems like we're gonna have 19 characters ! That's about 3 more girls than in PoFV and about the same amount of playables as in aocf ! Not to mention the fact that we're getting first timers in the characters of Aunn, Nazrin, and Seiran, not coming with quite the new drip but enjoying a new ZUNart, which is quite lovely. This small lineup plus the plot's suggesting the involvement of the beasts has already led to speculations that part of the cast this time might have something to do with the Chinese zodiac animals. If we're gonna speculate on that aspect, imo we might end up with something like this :

- Rat = Nazrin
- Ox = Urumi ?
- Tiger = Shou ?
- Rabbit = Seiran
- Dragon = Kicchou ?
- Snake = ??? (or Kasen ?)
- Horse = Kurokoma ?
- Goat = Toutetsu
- Monkey = ??? (or Kokoro ?)
- Rooster = Kutaka ?
- Dog = Aunn
- Pig = Marisa ? (c'mon, her bow looks like piglet ears)

Might prove interesting but that would obviously pose problem against game representation per character

Nothing to take seriously there, and even big assumptions aside, it's reasonable to expect a somewhat large cast of new characters for this one since not only it's a mainline title, but even it's, uh, "predecessor" gave quite a bit of new girls (as in Aya, Medicine, Yuuka, Komachi, and Yabadabadoo). That means that even if the Chinese Zodiac Animals theory comes into fruition (and even remove Reimu and Marisa from the count), we'd have 2 slots for Reimu and Marisa, 12 slots for chines zodiac fitting characters, and 5 slots for brand new girls, some of which could either be fitted in the chinese zodiac or occupy a different place ; and if it doesn't ... we're gonna get a very crazy lineup.

As far as Touhou stories go, the ones with settings that aren't fully explored in one game but properly solved in another generally tend to be major (ie : ULiL into LoLK, WBaWC into SHoSS) : this game seems like it's gonna tie together the happenings from a Hell invasion game AND a marketing one, this is gonna be interesting at the very least




In these next two screenshots, we get to see PoFV-like PoFV sights where Reimu's bloodied yin yang orbs pop up in Marisa's side while some of Marisa's lasers get to pop up next to Reimu. Also a sneaky but noticeable NEW REIMU BOSS SPRITE



Also, worthy of mention, back in the Seiran and Marisa screenshot, there seems to be icons reminiscent of TH 18 and TH 18.5's ability cards right below the girls's texts, suggesting that these cards may still come into play this time : Aunn's cut-in might take a big chunk of this other screenshot, but if you pay attention, you'll notice that Nazrin (yes, that's Nazrin) seems to be firing a sneaky Marisa laser, probably due to a certain equipment card.

It is not certain from the screenshots how exactly are the ability cards gonna be put to use this time, like how many are you going to have, are they all gonna be available from the get go, and whether they are going to have something to do with the stars at the bottom-ight of the UI (I believe there weren't any stars back in PoFV)

I might not have played PoFV, but even I have heard tales of how ... slightly differents controls were, considering how the game was meant to be played, and I wonder if the addition of the stars (which looks like consumables that shouldn't count as life points since these are represented by hearts in the upper middle of the screen) would add another button to press top do stuff. Can't be so sure what they're gonna be used for, especially if bullets clearing is gonna work the same as in PoFV, where it happens as you release your Spells.



Still on the PoFV likeness side of things, since it's 2023 and since this game seems to feature a vs mode, I wonder if this game's VS mode is going to NOT end up going down in infamy and be serviceable without requiring outside tinkering, cuz that would make this game a little bit more interesting. Not so sure how much ZUN has evolved as far as netcoding goes, but I think I'm going to keep my expectations a bit on the lower side as when it comes to the early days multiplayer aspect of this new game. Touhou mainline games are first and foremost single players, making them a delight for single player experience seeking players and friendless basement dwellers alike. Competing with a flesh and blood creature may prove a bit relaxing compared to competing with a judge of the dead AI that fairly unfocus dodges through clumps of bullets, so something to look forward on this aspect too.

And a little bit more on the speculation side of things, as far as story goes, if this is gonna be a tie-in of sorts for the events of TH 17 and TH 18, which it seems to me, and I wonder if it could be an opportunity to re explore part of TH 17's settings that were not explored yet, just like in TH 17.5, namely the last and secret gang of the animal realm (also is it just me or the shadowy thing behind Reimu in the Title screen picture is oddly reminiscent of the shadowy thing from WBaWC ?)

Anyway, it's is always a good sight to see a new entry into this franchise. PoFV is notorious for being a bit of an outlier in various ways, and I'm expecting this game to receive a similar treatment too, somewhere down the line.

OkuuFallout

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Quote
Snake = ??? (or Kasen ?)

Before anything, I just want to address this: Kanako, if anybody, would be the one to fit this role. Or considering the secret fourth animal faction and how they are described, we might get something new for this.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

After looking closer, I noticed a few things.

First and foremost, the gohei is longer yet again :|

Another thing I noticed was Reimu's outfit. You can see that there are now some paw prints on Reimu's miko clothes, which is a nice (and cute) touch. While a lot less significant, I somehow noticed that Reimu's shoes are more detailed than we saw last in UM. Not very noticeable, but proof that ZUN's art skills are getting more attention to detail.

One other thing I noticed was a new menu option: Achievement. While achievements aren't new, it is notable that it is its own menu option.


That's as much as I've got for now. Here's to a great new Phantasmagoria game!

Betting on Mima coming back in this game only for her to be treated like windows Yuuka in PoFV.

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Touhou Wiki(under construction) article & entry about https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Unfinished_Dream_of_All_Living_Ghost .
EDIT :  I have read  the  translation of (the displayed screenshot on the opening topic by our administrator Karisa)  Marisa's Title  " Strongest Magician of the Primates / Primate Magician " = monkey.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2023, 11:25:51 AM by Branneg Xy »
1.+This Real Photo "... and the WORD became Flesh", had been shoot by a Modern-Time Desert Father(Desertic Catholic Christian Community Monk+Ascetic) during THE HOLIEST CONSECRATION-MASS:The HOLIEST FAMILY of NAZARETH ALWAYS MYSTICALLY EVER-PRESENT and with ALSO THE CRISTCHILD BLESSING-https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3 , in EVERY HOLIEST MASS-HOST CONSECRATION BY the Ordanied PRIEST(S).
2(++RECOMMENDED+++) https://adoration.tyburnconvent.org.uk -https://tyburnconvent.org.uk
3.Youtube Channel/half-collections/half-references :
" FRA ALU BI Darcanix "

williewillus

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Why are the notches in the charge meters in the screenshots unordered?

I see some of the screenshots where Lv.5 is on a notch that is to the left Lv.4. Seems weird. Maybe each individual level attack has it's own "use it more and it levels" up system, similar to the bottom left number in PoFV?

agarpac

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NEW REIMU BOSS SPRITE

well we also get to see aunn's new boss sprite (or atleast id believe it to be. it should be different from th16)
so cute. i love aunn


like this is legit beautiful yet intriguing stuff, since it's proper pixel art unlike ZUN's usual ones. now i'm not sure about this, but maybe ZUN has graphic helper from other artist like alphes in PoFV; and probably also worked on new playable character's player sprites while at it (i think nazrin has more visible sprite on that screenshoot too and does look like proper pixel art).

PoFV is the first and was only main th that has help from other artist,
Spoiler:
and as result looking very nice (one of my favorites for portrait art style overall, while there is no evidence that ZUN worked with alphes with that one or atleast not that i aware of, i assume ZUN only worked on drawing/lineart since it looks like his but has help on shadings from alphes)
it should be topic for another day, but i want to mention this one out since th9 looks... too nice? (sorry zun lol) and also has good ingame sprites that he would use for future titles yet we never saw new sprites with that kind of style (i mean boss sprite) ever again after th9.
Well until now with this i guess, and both are vs shmup which is definitely not coincidence. This game needs more art content than usual th (?) so i can see why he enlist others.
and yes, i do love this direction if that's the case.

in any case, finally we have more vs touhou yay! sadly not using 18th number as it would fit with PoFV's 9th.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 03:08:11 PM by agarpac »

williewillus

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like this is legit beautiful yet intriguing stuff, since it's proper pixel art unlike ZUN's usual ones. now i'm not sure about this, but maybe ZUN has graphic helper from other artist like alphes in PoFV; and probably also worked on new playable character's player sprites while at it (i think nazrin has more visible sprite on that screenshoot too and does look like proper pixel art).

PoFV is the first and was only main th that has help from other artist,

That last sentence isn't really correct, Ki-san (ZUN's wife) drew the ability cards used in 18 and 18.5. So it's probably her that's helping him out again. Sprite work might be her specialty.

agarpac

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That last sentence isn't really correct, Ki-san (ZUN's wife) drew the ability cards used in 18 and 18.5. So it's probably her that's helping him out again. Sprite work might be her specialty.

i... just knew this wth. is this confirmed? that is sweet, did not know those ability cards are her doing. but like isn't that basically part of shanghai alice then? (lol)
tho i'd say card ability isn't pixel art, so does she have pixiv or twitter or other site to put her works in? now i;m super curious

i... just knew this wth. is this confirmed? that is sweet, did not know those ability cards are her doing. but like isn't that basically part of shanghai alice then? (lol)
tho i'd say card ability isn't pixel art, so does she have pixiv or twitter or other site to put her works in? now i;m super curious

Yes, she's credited as the card artist in the credits for UM and HBM. I wouldn't underestimate ZUN though - he's gotten really good in the last few years.

As for the upcoming game, I'm cautiously optimistic. I was never a great fan of the Phantasmagoria games personally, but the reveal post sounds like ZUN intends to address a lot of the reasons I rarely if ever play them. Plus of course I'm looking forward to seeing just what characters get represented. Hoping to see some real left-fielders alongside the surprises we've already got.

Tengukami

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PoFV was literally the first physical copy of a Touhou game I bought (at Otakon, no less), so this definitely put a smile on my face.

the reveal post sounds like ZUN intends to address a lot of the reasons I rarely if ever play them. Plus of course I'm looking forward to seeing just what characters get represented. Hoping to see some real left-fielders alongside the surprises we've already got.

I'm definitely in this camp as well. Already seeing some surprise is quite nice; looking forward to more to come!  :extend:

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

williewillus

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Getting hyped for the demo tomorrow! I forgot if Steam demo releases along with Reitaisai, there might be a delay. Will probably play an upload on Saturday.

Suspicious person

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Dear ZUNta Claus

For my imminent official game release, I want :
- A brand new Reimu theme
- A brand new Marisa theme and sprite
- Cool official music remixes for first timehus
- A super broke character that make the rest of the cast useless
- A somewhat serviceable netplay at the very least
- The return of Lily white along with a brand new Lily sprite
- An AI that doesn't make you feel like you're playing against a timer

I wasn't around when PoFV Demo came out, nor have I seen or bothered to look what exactly its demo was like. But at any rate, if we compare this game with the usual Touhou, it is clear that we're not gonna get the usual first three stages kind of package this time : how is the story mode going to be is what I'm the most curious about. After all, I think it'll feel very, VERY forced if we're gonna have to run into Seiran, Nazrin, Aunn, and either Reimu or Marisa  every single time on our way to solve the incident, even if it's gonna hypothetically be an incomplete story mode for the demo. I'm looking forward to how story mode is gonna make sense in the context of a demo release (which I assume to be incomplete).

The general plot aside, I hope what we're gonna have this time would be more than random talk of questionable relevancewith a random person of questionable relevance for like 70% of the encounters. We've had somewhat mature and sensible 2hu conversations these recent times, so I want something good as far as character interactions goes in the story.

As for additionnal speculation, if the girls are still gonna have some kind of passive bonuses and distinctive traits (for example low or high firepower, slow or fast speed), I think that the card system can be very helpfull for the potentially garbage tier character to viable : imagine if we can grab PoFV Yuuka and, dunno, give her a passive ability card that boost her movement speed, or give characters with narrow range or weaker fireopower equipment cards that cover more screen or just give you more dps : I think the cards have more potential this time, especially since there's probably not gonna be any magic circle to spam via Aunn cards.

Speaking of which, the only thing I can speculate as far as character goes is that Aunn could probably boast a very fast charging speed, consistent with how her card back in 100thBM was about fast charging.

williewillus

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I wasn't around when PoFV Demo came out, nor have I seen or bothered to look what exactly its demo was like.

I tried finding it, but all the mirror links on ZUN's website to the PoFV demo are dead :(

But according to that same page (https://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th09dl.html), that demo had 3 playable stages and 5 playable chars, so I'd expect about the same here.

Tengukami

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how long's the gap (heh) between the physical release of the demo and it appearing on Steam, based on prior events?

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

williewillus

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how long's the gap (heh) between the physical release of the demo and it appearing on Steam, based on prior events?

According to this tweet which is a translation of an interview(?), they are supposed to come out at the same time. I think there was a several hour delay for HBM though.

Tengukami

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According to this tweet which is a translation of an interview(?), they are supposed to come out at the same time. I think there was a several hour delay for HBM though.

Oh, I even follow that account, I shoulda seen that lol
Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 01:53:30 AM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

williewillus

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The demo is on sale now and people have physical copies.

Here's a Chinese stream which should be going up imminently with gameplay: https://live.bilibili.com/262964

I'll ask everyone here to please spoiler mark spoilers until at least the Steam demo comes out. I'd like to go in blind so I'll be avoiding the stream and spoilers as well. Have fun!

Tengukami

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The demo is on sale now and people have physical copies.

Here's a Chinese stream which should be going up imminently with gameplay: https://live.bilibili.com/262964

I'll ask everyone here to please spoiler mark spoilers until at least the Steam demo comes out. I'd like to go in blind so I'll be avoiding the stream and spoilers as well. Have fun!

OK this looks like a lot of fun. Digging the music too!

Actually looks a bit tougher than the first 3 stages of PoFV were at least
« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 11:32:43 AM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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I found the demo of the game.(I don't know if I can post it, so I won't.)

I don't fully understand how the game works, but I can tell something already: I LOVE IT!!! For the record, I was playing on hard mode.

It feels nostalgic to find some stuff that were in PoDD : return of the classical bombs, Reimu's first attack is like the one she had in PoDD. There is probably a character who's skill allow her to launch a bomb à la PoFV, though, but it's not the system where you have to erase a lot of bullet. But like in PoFV, the scope will put the ghosts into a "stop" state for you to annihilate them. But what's more cool is that Zun implemented the card system(which was something I greatly loved in UM) into the gameplay, and the ghosts are not only humans, but animals too.

The last sentence I've said makes it like the story of the game will be directly linked to WBaWC and UM at the same time, which is quiet uncommon. Usually, a previous game will set the next plot like what happened between MoF and SA, but this time seems like what happened between WBaWC and UM really had a huge impact in Gensokyo, and I love it because it feels very immersive, like I am in a kinda chaotic Gensokyo, with spirits everywhere and cards ability being still active. I really want to know what is happening, because games like PoFV lets a lot of place for character development while setting up a story.

I heard the arrange Nazrin, Seiran and Aunn. I love the fact that, while arranging their themes, Zun still kept the style they had in their original game. For Marisa and Reimu's themes, I was more into PoDD and PoFV, not gonna lie.

Another thing I greatly enjoy is that I feel the characters are more balanced than in PoFV: I feel like a boss 1 can be as hard as Reimu or Marisa, AND that's a great thing because it allows for more variety when there are tournaments. Also, I was surprised because it feels like Marisa is kinda nerfed compared to how she was in PoDD and PoFV BUT at the same time, she feels more easily playable: her moves are slower and she is perfectly playable on focus.
 
As for my favorite character to play right now, without hesitation, Nazrin wins the first place. Her scope is kinda weird but it doesn't bother me. Her 1st ex attack is VERY strong, and she has great move, fast but not TOO fast on unfocused and slow on focus: this is exactly the kind of characters I loved to play in PoFV.(Youmu, Lyrica, Tewi, Medicine and Komachi) She definitely feels closer to how Tewi's moves were in PoFV.(I know it 'cause I finished defeating almost everyone on hard mode yesterday, I just don't even dream of defeating Eiki or Merlin)

Secretely, I kinda wish Yuuka will be back, because, she's kind of the "Phantasmagoria" girl of the serie, even going as far as being playable in Seihou.(She's my favorite character, so, yeah, cannot not wish for her to be playable)
Characters I'd like to see in that game ? Well, Mima, Kogasa, Parsee, Hina, Keiki(with animal spirits and all, maybe it's possible), Kutaka, Ran, Alice, Shizuha, Koishi. Many more. Of course, most of them wouldn't be since they aren't even animals, so...

I will play the game again and again in the meantime. But I am definitely excited to buy the full game!

williewillus

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Just played a bit too, it's deceptively different from PoFV and I think people coming to it with expectations of PoFV aren't setting themselves up for a really good time. Some observations:

Spoiler:
Charging and scoping now have the same key, X. C releases a bomb and drains your meter back to 1.

The scope shapes are all pretty unique, and scoping bullets slow-grazes them like it does in HBM, which releases the "Bullet Money" items to charge your meter.
Note that you have to pick these up (there's a POC, but unlikely it'll be useful given how chaotic things get).

Enemies have more HP, which incentivizes using Lv1 a lot more often (and thus scoping more often, and thus getting more meter for higher level attacks)

The boss sprites are drawn by Tasofro and look great.

The remixes are okay, but the title and early stage/Reimu theme are really really good. The early stage/Reimu theme reminds me a lot of the mid-stage theme in HBM.

I've already started seeing so-called "superplayers" mald about the damage/health/cards again, so get ready for more exciting "discourse" on the matter...

Overall, the game is pretty interesting, especially in a versus setting. Losing score and replays is a bit concerning, but my gut says this game will be quite fun for pvp. Also, keybindings are fully configurable for multiplayer now so no more struggling to use janky Y/G/J/B bindings like in PoFV lmao.

williewillus

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The early stage/Reimu theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PMdjMiKzSo has completely earwormed me now. It's so cute and happy.

Tengukami

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still waiting on this thing to come out on steam

i know i can get it elsewhere but idk i waited like 10 years for these games to be available via steam so i wanna keep doing that now lol

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Some observations:
Spoiler:
The boss sprites are drawn by Tasofro and look great.
How did people figure that out? I remember most saying it was ZUN's wife that did those.

OkuuFallout

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How did people figure that out? I remember most saying it was ZUN's wife that did those.

It's true that a lot of people have said that, but it was only a theory, and unfortunately people began interpreting it as a fact, despite it being spread before the demo was released.

williewillus

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How did people figure that out? I remember most saying it was ZUN's wife that did those.

It's stated in the omake file of the demo

Tengukami

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been hearing that the release of the steam version might be due to a couple of bugs that seem easy enough to correct; i.e., crashing on returning to title screen, one character misnamed for whatever reason, that kinda thing.

if that's so the delay makes total sense tbh

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From what I've heard, there seems to be a bug where scores and/or replays get lost for some reason. Dunno if there's actual confirmation on that.

Been waiting for the demo release on Steam myself to actually check the game out.

Tengukami

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woke this morning to see it's on steam now!

yayy  :cirnotan: didnt take long at all really!

EDIT:

One hilarious possible bug that arose was while I was playing as Marisa against Seiran the stage just went on and on and on and no boss appeared and I waited entirely too long before realising what was happening and stopped.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2023, 11:15:33 AM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."