Author Topic: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!  (Read 630 times)

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raikaria

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Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« on: July 22, 2022, 06:22:16 AM »
I don't see anything on the frontpage, so... here we go.

https://touhou-project.news/news/7436/

Touhou 18.5; 100th Black Market has been announced; and will be releaseing at Comiket 100 on August 14th; with Steam shortly afterwards.



Translation of ZUN's comments:

Touhou Project 18.5th
Barrett Philia's Black Market ~ 100th Black Market.

 
 

The story will be after the Rainbow Dragon Cave.

 

"The god of the market said.
"Ability cards will become widespread, obsolete, and the market will return to everyday life."
However, unlike God's wishes, cards are only increasing in value for some reason.
Is someone manipulating the value?
Or is it because some collectors are buying up?
When the card market was extremely confused,
A market where God cannot intervene ── A black market has been opened. "

 

This time, Marisa Kirisame will go out to investigate (& collect) alone. It's a surprisingly rare game in which Marisa plays the leading role.
Unlike Nijiryu-dong, it is a game where you collect new cards and challenge the stage repeatedly while capturing the stage that develops at high speed and randomly. One play is short, I play repeatedly, and I feel like I'm heading for collecting cards. It's a content that you can play regardless of the story.

---

There are some screenshots on the blog of gameplay:

1: Stages seem to be "Markets". 1st Market is shown. Difficulty is rated in stars. ZUN says the stages "develop randomly"

2: The game seems to be wave-based. There are fairy waves, it's not just a boss rush.

3: Eternity Larva and Mike are confirmed for the game

4: There are a lot of new cards shown, includeing a Flandre card, a Larva card, a Keiki card, a Sekibanki card, a card depicting a black knife on a red background, and a card with a rabbit with a mochi pounder. The Dowsing card now seems to be purple, and there is another card I cannot make out under the "Wave" counter.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 06:41:28 PM by raikaria »


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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2022, 10:07:08 AM »
Neat  :cirnotan:. What amuses me most about this new release is that you could argue Reimu, Touhou's poster shrine maiden, is suddenly falling out of ZUN's favour. Not only does Touhou 17.5 make her look like a total chump who doesn't amount to anything, but now her life-long protagonism-rival gets a solo game. Poor Reimu...
Although all that would make for an opportunity to give her a bigger role in this one than you'd think. Extra Stage boss possibly?

Going to grab this on the hopefully timely Steam release!

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2022, 03:11:01 PM »
Interesting to see Marisa's eyes have gone red, I guess we can infer that consumerism and hoarding has rendered her insane.

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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2022, 06:36:44 PM »
What amuses me most about this new release is that you could argue Reimu, Touhou's poster shrine maiden, is suddenly falling out of ZUN's favour. Not only does Touhou 17.5 make her look like a total chump who doesn't amount to anything, but now her life-long protagonism-rival gets a solo game. Poor Reimu...

I mean, Reimu's still the 3rd most important playable character in 17.5. [Murasa and Flandre are the real protagonists, although you could argue since Murasa dosen't help Reimu or Flandre reach Yuuma that even Murasa is filler. Kanako and Joon are literally filler who could be removed without impacting the plot at all; and Marisa is outright non-canon]

However, this would be the 2nd game that might feature Marisa but not Reimu [After Great Fairy Wars].

Which I guess would actually officially make Marisa Touhou's primary character; since there's been 1 game with Reimu but not Marisa [HRtP] but if Reimu isn't in 18.5; you'll have 2 games with Marisa but not Reimu. [Of course, Reimu's been the protagonist more than Marisa still; seeing as she was enemy only in SoEW and GFW]

Interesting to see Marisa's eyes have gone red, I guess we can infer that consumerism and hoarding has rendered her insane.

Or more Youkai-like. I think Marisa's hair is a different shade too.

Oh; and I updated the picture in the OP with the one from ZUN's blog rather than the one I initially saw. The screen is just placed to basically censor Marisa's toes

---

Edit: Apparently from a source I found; the cards are not ZUNArt... they're ZUN's Wife Art
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 06:55:30 PM by raikaria »


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I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2022, 08:59:43 AM »
If you want to play the appearances game, Reimu did appear in Great Fairy Wars - not in the main game, but she did feature in one of the endings. And while it's debatable whether Gold Rush even counts as an official Touhou game, Reimu did feature there while Marisa did not.

But regardless, I'm happy Marisa finally has her big day. I'm quite curious how semi-random Touhou gameplay will shake out, but I'm excited to see ZUN try an entire new kind of game. Looking forward to Comiket.

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2022, 12:51:10 AM »
ZUN's wife is credited as doing the card art in UM's credits.

As for Reimu, I don't think she's falling out of anyone's favor. It just makes more sense for Marisa to be interested in this kind of thing. If I had to make any prediction about the new game, it's that we'll probably get a proper Tsukasa theme out of it.

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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2022, 04:50:45 PM »
Touhou 18's card system was too good to be wasted on only a single game, so I'm not so surprised that ZUN decided to build upon it. Although the most curious part about this game is the rapidly changing stages and short playthroughs parts.

Anyway, my observations,, going by the screenshots, are as such :

-The stages are called "Markets" and should allow you to unlock a few possible cards from a limited pool upon completion : for example, there should be 22 cards that can only be acquired in the first Market, so you wanna do shopping there over and other again until you acquire all the first Market has to offer ; furthermore, since the "stages" seems to have waves, I believe you'll face either one or a bunch of patterns per wave and get rewarded by the black market at the end

-Comparing the 3rd and the last screenshots, it seems you can only use "regular" money to buy cards in the "regular" market, while you rely on bullet money to buy cards possibly between waves

-Eterrnity Larva seems to have only one life an no other spell cards, unsure if it's because it's late in her fight or this is the only phase she got, but her Death butterfly spellcard seems to make use of her good old "trademark" pattern that she commonly uses : if Eternity isn't the only one doing this, then this game's pattern design may quite probably have the Violet Detector syndrome

-The background for the screenshot with Mike seems to be LoLK's stage 1 background, which is a bit of a shame for the HSiFS blue sky and the UM rain & rainbow enjoyers

And while we can't be so sure about the effects of the cards, we can glean a bit of info by looking at the right part of the UI :

- The reworked Patchouli cards (a white silhouette of Patchouli reading a book + the magic symbol) seems to increase your M. Atk by 50%, as one of those increase the M. Atk multiplier by 50%, since you have 150% M. Atk in the screenshot with mob fairies, while you have 200% in the screenshot with Eternity
- Apparently it's possible to have at least two of the same cards (probably for the stat enhancing ones), as we can see in the screenshot with Eternity
- The reworked Aya card should probably increase your speed by 20%, as we can see in the screenshot with Eternity (since Aya = speed most of the time)
-The new Flandre card should probably increase the M. break multiplier by 25%, as we can see in the screenshot with Eternity
-The Mike screenshot's got a new Aunn card with Two Komainus and another card with what looks like small Jizos probably, and while we can't be sure which card got which effect, we can see that one of them increase the S. Atk multiplier by 20%, and decrease the M. Reload by -33% ; however the Mike screenshot also got 3 small pink hearts in the bottom right corner of the screen while we don''t see those elsewhere (possible effect of the Jizos ?)

Anyway, a bunch of new characters popped up before this one, so I'm curious to see if ZUN is gonna implement them all, and give us some kind of Market for Hell and the Animal realm. I would also love to see Kokoro, the Yorigami's, as well as Toutetsu for this game, but I am not counting on it so much.

And I also agree with the suggestion that this game is a great opportunity for ZUN to give Tsukasa a proper theme : since this mini-incident is a continuation of sorts for Touhou 18, imo it would be appropriate that a character that had a hand with the whole card business to be involved in some way or another with what's going on. Although I'd much appreciate it if ZUN chose to introduce some sort of anti-Chimata kind of new character for this one, that'd be cool, and we'd finally get a new girl that started in a shooter spinoff game besides Hatate.

Also appreciate the fact that the Flandre's skirt in her card got the two shiny pins, the japanese tweet featuring Flandre's full design is quite possibly the most powerfull tweet of this fandom's history since all the proper falndre chara design discussions and fanarts that derived from it totally had some bearings to this particular illustration

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2022, 05:56:47 PM »
The frontpage really needs to be updated more often

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2022, 07:08:07 AM »
Has anyone noticed Eternity Larva's eyes being red and Mike's eyes being a bit redder than usual? I thought at first that Marisa's eyes being red is probably due to her actually being Rumia disguising as Marisa, but I'm now doubting my own theory. Must be larger than that.

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2022, 02:25:50 AM »
One thing I've noticed about the menu HUD.

ZUN usually likes to keep one side clear and put most things on the other side. That was the case in ISC, and in photo games the photos go on the left (save for overflow).

Here we have both powerups on the right and cards on the left. This probably means that he's foreseeing enough powerups or cards (or both) to clutter things up if they were to be on both sides of the screen. I wonder how many waves a typical stage will have?

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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2022, 11:04:34 PM »
https://touhou-project.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/th185_dairy5.jpg
https://touhou-project.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/th185_dairy4.jpg
https://touhou-project.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/th185_dairy3.jpg
I noticed through the " Entitled Ability Card Rows of (on the lower-left screen)",though it is not difficult, that in the   1st (Stage) Market we can see (4th Screenshot) Eternity Larva appearing after the 4th and during the 5th Wave is cleared,(3rd Screenshot) Black Market Ability-Item Shopping afer clearing the 2nd Wave which is the 3rd-to-last Wave before reaching Eternity's5 th one ,(2nd Screenshot) 3rd and 2nd-to-last wave reaching the before mentioned.

https://touhou-project.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/th185_dairy6.jpg
However on the 5th Screenshot we are still seeing the same 1st (Stage) Market ,but it is both a different playthrough  since the " Entitled Ability Card Rows of (on the lower-left screen)" , a different and not-shown-previously Wave(end of the 4th one) with Mike as different and not-shown-previously Boss Character at the end of it.

https://touhou-project.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/th185_dairy7.jpg
The last and 6th Screenshot displays the "Card Shop" whose Text-Option we can see on the 1st Screenshot which is also the Before-Gameplay Starting Screen.
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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2022, 10:58:19 AM »
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2097720/_100th_Black_Market/

Steam black market page is up for Touhou 18.5

My main takeaways :
-The magic circle surrounding Marisa seems like it can be fired off to deal AOE damage. I believe the damage that magic circle deals is probably based of M. Atk, and the cooldown between its uses is what's affected by the M. Reload (unless M. Reload is about the active Card's CD)
-The magic circle thingy seems to stop (or massively slow down?) the clump of bullets that are inside of it, seems to interract pretty nicely with the Miracle Mallet for scoring and money grinding reasons
-The Marisa we have in the trailer seems to have the UM sprite, which means golden eye and a proper hair braid with a white ribbon, and non rainbow buttons, quite unlike the red eyed, braid lacking, rainbow buttons having Marisa in the title screen. Something suspicious is afoot, I daresay.
-Similarly, the Eternity featured in the Steam Black Market screenshot's eyes lack that red tinge, unlike the Eternity screenshot we see in the Touhou news site where we get to glean a hint of red, hmm.

On the scoring aspect of the game, aside from the dominance of the trifecta of UM's Mallet, bullet stacking, and potentially Miracle Mallet CD reduction (if any card reduce the mallet's CD like in UM), but the highlight this time's gotta be the small zone that's create whenever Marisa sends her magic circle : in the trailer, we get to see the player generate Bullet Money (which I assume the small purple collectibles are) spawn from the field created by the magic circle. To put it in an easy to relate example : all the bullets included in the space generated by the magic circle gets LoLK grazed and generate bullet money instead of graze items, so this promise to be interesting.

Anyway, going by Mike's nonspell and Eternity's spellcard's look, it seems pretty much certain to me that this game is sure to bear the Violet Detector Syndrome, by which I mean the reuse of patterns from previous titles, the relative simplicity of the design of the patterns (especially in the earlier stages).

Stage design this time seems more about pattern design, as in ZUN could have designed a number of patterns that belongs to a pool from which a limited number of those would get picked up and thrown at you during your playthroughs. Depending on whether these patterns have harder version of themselves or, better yet, could mix and mash with other patterns, the roguelike aspect of this game may prove quite wild, and scorerunning would require a much higher learning cap. The only question is to see whether some random cards are gonna be important for scoring, cuz that's gonna bring back RNG dependance from UM, which is quite no bueno

The wave's patterns are probably gonna be what's gonna devide whether this game is gonna flop or receive a warm welcome, since no matter how complicated a wave may be, once you learn it's pattern you won't have much issue with it going forward : what I'm most interesting in is whether the waves patterns are gonna have various level of difficulties and whether they are gonna get mixed and mashed with each other, somewhere down the line : Nightmare scenes from VD were not super popular because they were often dismissed as lazily and not creative, a bit understandable since there are only a few combinations of small kinds of patterns, but this game may manage to avoid that problem if it  gives a lot, and I mean A LOT, of types of patterns that could randomly mix and mash with other ones : a randomly mixed and mashed pattern honestly seems to me like it could be a good fit for the roguelike approach the Man seems to be going for this time.

Also a few additionnal gameplay takeaways :
-The Aunn card most certainly reduces the M. Reload by 33%
-The Sutra Scroll card seems to increase the M. Size (which I presume is the size of the zone created by Marisa's magic circle)  by 33% (it can stack), so it's functionnally different from how it was in UM but may still prove to be very useful scoring wise
-Waves functions like some sort of mini-stage sections ; and you seem to have about 30 second per wave and a little over 1 minute for bosses, so no UM grindfest this time
-Mike didn't have any stars under her name, but her, uhhh, life circle seems to have the blue marker for spellcards

All in all, this game's got potential, but should lean heavily towardds Violet Detector, design philosophy wise. Scoring system seems to be straighforward enough for a bozo like me to deduct from the trailer, while random patterns are justied by the approach towards a more roguelike genre. Unless ZUN decides to make the magic circle system to be as clunky as VD's teleport, this game should turn alright.



Just please don't make us double tap shift, I get that the C button is probably already reserved for the active, but use D or even B or something else please just not double tap shift
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 09:24:05 AM by Suspicious person »

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2022, 01:43:59 AM »
-The magic circle surrounding Marisa seems like it can be fired off to deal AOE damage. I believe the damage that magic circle deals is probably based of M. Atk, and the cooldown between its uses is what's affected by the M. Reload (unless M. Reload is about the active Card's CD)

Given that all the other "M" things are about the magic circle, I doubt M. Reload is about the mallet. Also it seems like the starting item can be changed, so wonder what else would go there besides the mallet.

Also, I'm curious what the real money (not bullet money) will be used for.

The title music is really nice. It's like a mix of UM and Independent Simulacrum with just a smidge of SHoSS Toutetsu.

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Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2022, 09:19:20 AM »
Also, I'm curious what the real money (not bullet money) will be used for.
There's a Card Shop on the market selection screen, and you even get to see the number of your gold items there (1st screenshot from the official 2hu news site), so that's probably where you use your normal money. It seems like you'll have a selection of 5 cards to buy (going by the last screenshot from the official 2hu news site), could be more, could be less as we go on.

Basically, here's how it'll go :
-Bullet money is created by using Marisa's magic attack thingy on enemy bullets
-You use the bullet money you have to buy cards at the black market
-Money (gold items) randomly drop from killed enemies and can also be generated by other means such as the miracle mallet
-You use the real money to buy cards at the item shop

Speaking of cards, the Eternity item card featured in the screenshot seems to have 0/1 written on it. Maybe there's some extra condition to fulfill in order to properly unlock cards or something.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 09:22:27 AM by Suspicious person »

Re: Touhou 18.5 - 100th Black Market has been announced!
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 05:08:37 AM »
(    ・O・)つ I come bearing translated tidbits as usual

-The "0/1", "0/2", "0/3" indicators show how many copies of a given card you can have equipped at once. The equipment cards shown so far are all non-stackable, meaning you can't outfit yourself with tons of the same option. (tragic)

-Larva's card: sprays butterfly scales in every direction around the player, at very short range.
-Nitori and Reimu's cards: same as in UM.

-Nazrin's card: immediately gives you between 50 to 100 bullet money for 0 cost, in exchange for not being able to buy any other cards from the current shop menu (so that you can't grab the free money and then grab free cards with it, lol).

-Futo's card ("plates + yin-yang" art): extends the duration of your magic circle attack by 33%. Stackable up to 3x for 200% duration at max.
-Aya's card: increases your movement speed by, quote, "1 level" (= 20%, as Suspicious person psoted above). Stackable up to 5x for 200% speed at max.
-Flandre's card: makes your magic circle delete some bullets rather than just slowing them down. Stackable; can't see the cap in the video, but 1 card grants 25% to your M.Break stat, as pointed out above.

-There's also a couple frames in the trailer showing that you can still buy individual 1up cards, which explains those hearts in the lower corner.

-Larva's eyes turning red is just part of her attack animation; it's been there since HSiFS. Marisa, though... ZUN said on the latest Nikenme Radio that the title screen art does have plot relevance... hmmmMMmmmMMMmm