Ys Mafia (Current Phase: Game Over!)

[Disquieted]

Also sb can you go over tbz?

I haven’t really been happy with him being so passive and inactive this game and I imagine these are all signs of him being scum. My biggest problem is that it would mean Bardiche is scum and I’m not sure how to reconcile that.

[sb]

For rai:

So the case is also that they have a weird case on you/BBM/Yaersulf? That case actually made me like him more because like... it's not solid by any means, but he was pushing it consistently and it seems too bizarre for scum to concoct. It feels like he actually has belief in his case which I wouldn't expect to find from scum. I could definitely see him as crazy third party, but I think that if he planned to claim ever (he wasn't under pressure) he surely would've talked to his scumteam about it first? Where is the scum benefit in claiming to have targeted Daiya? We had a pseudo-tracker flip already and I believe masons had claimed by that time, I don't see why he would just... not talk to his buddies and pick out a target that makes more sense.

[sb]

Also sb can you go over tbz?

Poke me if I haven't done this in like 20 minutes, I want to try and get through something else before rai sleeps.

[sb]

@rai, on Serela:

I think Serela is scum because his pushes haven't felt solid to me. They've felt like gut-jerk reactions to recent events (at the time of making the vote) which makes him feel aimless to me, like he doesn't really care about his suspicions. Last game, Serela tried really hard even when the gamestate frankly sucked and I'm not feeling that same kind of commitment or want to find the scumteam here. It also doesn't help that Zwerd was effectively the only one suspecting Serela to my knowledge, and he got bopped N1 instead of the claimed Masons, or even BBM.

There isn't a big slam-dunk post to latch onto, he just doesn't feel like town.

[sb]

Also sb can you go over tbz?

I haven’t really been happy with him being so passive and inactive this game and I imagine these are all signs of him being scum. My biggest problem is that it would mean Bardiche is scum and I’m not sure how to reconcile that.

Why did you have Bard as town, out of curiosity?

[raikaria]

For rai:

So the case is also that they have a weird case on you/BBM/Yaersulf? That case actually made me like him more because like... it's not solid by any means, but he was pushing it consistently and it seems too bizarre for scum to concoct. It feels like he actually has belief in his case which I wouldn't expect to find from scum. I could definitely see him as crazy third party, but I think that if he planned to claim ever (he wasn't under pressure) he surely would've talked to his scumteam about it first? Where is the scum benefit in claiming to have targeted Daiya? We had a pseudo-tracker flip already and I believe masons had claimed by that time, I don't see why he would just... not talk to his buddies and pick out a target that makes more sense.

It's also the timing of his claim.

Waffles makes a case with the point of 'Rolefishing'

Polaris asks for him to claim at 2/7

He does so with no resistance.

Do you see the problem here? It is the definition of inconsistency.

@rai, on Serela:

I think Serela is scum because his pushes haven't felt solid to me. They've felt like gut-jerk reactions to recent events (at the time of making the vote) which makes him feel aimless to me, like he doesn't really care about his suspicions. Last game, Serela tried really hard even when the gamestate frankly sucked and I'm not feeling that same kind of commitment or want to find the scumteam here. It also doesn't help that Zwerd was effectively the only one suspecting Serela to my knowledge, and he got bopped N1 instead of the claimed Masons, or even BBM.

There isn't a big slam-dunk post to latch onto, he just doesn't feel like town.

Is there something in particular which makes the pushes seem not solid? If you could highlight an example or two? Because as I said; I've not picked this up.

I really don't like bringing up meta.

I did bring up that Zwejd suspected Serela a bit earlier when I was looking for people who might have a motive for killing him, if I recall. That is my main thing I have on Serela, but it's not so large right now I was thinking of heavily pushing it, I wanted to see what happened N2 before really pushing on that.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
NucleusWaffles (4): Yaersulf, PX, Serela, raikaria
Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, sb, Fabloo, Disquieted
Disquieted (2): banana spritzee, Tom
Daiya (1): BigBangMeteor
raikaria (1): NucleusWaffles
sb (0):
Yaersulf (0):
Tom (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
banana spritzee (0):
Fabloo (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 11 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Daiya

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

[Disquieted]

His conviction when pushing Tom felt real.

Let’s tiptoe around the point as well and point out that he seemed genuinely upset when he was trying to scumhunt and getting hurt for it.

I’m trying to think around that cause TBZ is terrible. But it’s hard to.

[Disquieted]

So rai are you ok with Serela lynched or not?

[NekoNekoRex]

Tom is very easy to push though because has near-zero game content

[Disquieted]

Tom is very easy to push though because has near-zero game content

This was on Day 1 when Tom was actually trying.

I’m referring to Bardiche, to be clear.

[sb]

His conviction when pushing Tom felt real.

Let’s tiptoe around the point as well and point out that he seemed genuinely upset when he was trying to scumhunt and getting hurt for it.

I’m trying to think around that cause TBZ is terrible. But it’s hard to.

Mmm. So my read on that situation was that Bard felt attacked as a person rather than as a player and that's why he was so upset, and that part doesn't have anything to do with alignment. Ymmv though.

[Disquieted]

I must have trouble separating the two, cause I felt they were one and the same. I’ll definitely consider that though.

[BigBangMeteor]

sigh. serela should claim.

i don't fully understand the raikaria - serela link cuz i don't feel like his posts about serela have been very different than my posts about serela? i suppose raikaria is trying to push the counterwagon more than me tho.

i agree that i think bard would have gotten upset as either alignment.

[raikaria]

So rai are you ok with Serela lynched or not?

I will vote Serela if people actually convince me it is the better option, or it becomes absolutely clear that Waffles will not be lynched, because I would consider No Lynch a worse option than lynching Serela.

I am willing to lynch Serela, but honestly I'm a little unsure on the wagon due to the general lack of caseing on Serela; Fabloo's aggression towards me and Serela; and this sudden unexplained 'If Serela flips red Raikaria is red'; which people aren't elaborateing on even when I ask.

I mean, how is it going to convince me to vote Serela when you say 'If Serela is scum Raikaria gets lynched next'. That's a lose/lose for me.

[raikaria]

i don't fully understand the raikaria - serela link cuz i don't feel like his posts about serela have been very different than my posts about serela? i suppose raikaria is trying to push the counterwagon more than me tho.

I'm not even really pushing the wagon anymore. I'm outright asking people to convince me to change wagons if they want Serela to get lynched <.<

[sb]

fabloo, i am still confused. you are saying that nucleus is town, but you are also voting nucleus?

this was supposed to be a softball question, why are you making this so complicated :(

Force of habit. I was hoping you'd take away more of the things I was saying though.

##Unvote

##Unvote
##Vote Fabloo

WHY IS EVERYONE EMPTY UNVOTING
YOU DON'T EVEN NEED A GOOD REASON TO VOTE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW

Okay, so this is a string of posts from page 4. For context, Fabloo applies some pressure to a player and then starts to talk about townreading them (or at least, feeling better about them, I'm not grabbing all the quotes here). Polly asks Fabloo "hey, why are you still voting this person", to which Fabloo does a pretty reasonable thing and unvotes, without changing their vote because they don't have another player to pursue yet.

Serela votes for them in his very next post, ignoring all of the context around it. It's so short-sighted, and the sudden flip on Nucleus felt very similar to me. It feels like Serela isn't paying attention to the bigger picture and instead get fixated on what's right in front of them.

So yeah, there's this. And also I don't think the *meta* point on Serela is entirely meta, it's kind of just a scummy thing on its own made worse when placed in contrast with the previous game.

[raikaria]

Also seriously it's 00:40 now. I'm going to do my teeth ect and come back. If there's not actually anything to convince me Serela is the better lynch I'm going to bed on Waffles because I still think he is the better lynch.

Not threats to change vote or die that ignore other people not voting Serela. Not people seemingly trying to convince me to lynch Serela by saying 'if he flips red you're next'. An actual case. Try and actually convince people of your lynch. That's how you lynch people.

I cannot in good conciousness lynch Serela when I don't see anything majorly scummy, and the people pushing the wagon can't even really explain it.

[Disquieted]

So what’s wrong with Fabloo’s aggressive behaviour, Rai?

What happens if Serela flips town? If you’re on the wagon and Serela flips town, you’re fine, right?

Sorry im just trying to unravel the logic of “if Serela flips scum, I’m next, so I don’t want to vote” and I can’t get over you avoiding a lynch so you want people to convince you that Serela is scum. It’s not the most genuine interpretation I could have.

[sb]

But yeah @Disquieted, I probably shouldn't have placed TBZ in the same tier as Serela or rai. I do think their non-posting is a bad look and it feels like a good fit for the gamestate, since I don't feel like scum were particularly involved in most arguments or fights this game? Also even when TBZ was mostly absent in past games as town I felt like he at least had gut reads he'd feel fine with stating, but his ISO is like, barren. It's weird.

[BigBangMeteor]

Well I would probably vote serela over nucleus since these seem to be the options for today, depending on serela's claim.

Im a bit unsure of what exactly youre looking for raikaria. People have posted the cases?

[NekoNekoRex]

Vote Serela because the Waffle case hinges on a poorly explained power role that isn't really scummy more than extremely poorly explained and possibly poorly understood by the player themselves.

Vote Serela because I don't like their reactions to posts, their mindset seems to be geared towards pushing players to vote with them rather than actually hunt scum.

Vote Serela because the Zwerd nightkill was painfully only beneficial to Serela

[Disquieted]

But yeah @Disquieted, I probably shouldn't have placed TBZ in the same tier as Serela or rai. I do think their non-posting is a bad look and it feels like a good fit for the gamestate, since I don't feel like scum were particularly involved in most arguments or fights this game? Also even when TBZ was mostly absent in past games as town I felt like he at least had gut reads he'd feel fine with stating, but his ISO is like, barren. It's weird.

Same except I should move him down a lot more. Sounds like you want to move him up cause of being unsure.

You killed him once cause he started to tunnel you. Who would want to kill him in this game?  I feel like I should expect that from his town game.

[sb]

Well I would probably vote serela over nucleus since these seem to be the options for today, depending on serela's claim.

Im a bit unsure of what exactly youre looking for raikaria. People have posted the cases?

I think that rai's turn on Nucleus with so much conviction looks scummy when they had a light townread on them before. I guess it's also like, I would expect town to feel kind of lost in this gamestate but rai doesn't really feel lost, it feels like he's secure in his cases and also I was kinda bothered by "can someone explain the Serela cases to me" when I voted Serela! With words! And they were mostly ignored and he seems to focus in on one part of the case he doesn't like and doesn't really handle the rest much.

[PX]

If you are that adamant about it Sister, then We shall relent for now and give them more time to out themselves. We still don't feel good about Serela being a part of our faction, so Our vote shall move there

##Unvote
##Vote Serela

[sb]

Same except I should move him down a lot more. Sounds like you want to move him up cause of being unsure.

You killed him once cause he started to tunnel you. Who would want to kill him in this game?  I feel like I should expect that from his town game.

The town, probably.

This isn't just from a sample size of one game, it's also from other games on smogon where he lurked out of D1 and just had like, three scumreads he posted and didn't really do anything with, but it felt different.

This is definitely not solid which is why I'd bump him up a little, but yeah.

[NekoNekoRex]

[Disquieted]

I personally can't get over rai avoiding the wagon because if it flips scum he's the next one to get lynched.

Ignore the fact that was said by a claimed mason, so there's no scum manipulation involved.

Like maybe this is me not bothering to be forgiving to Rai right now  and it's a really unfair representation I'm sure. But it makes me tilt my head.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
Serela (5): NekoNekoRex, sb, Fabloo, Disquieted, PX (L-2!)
NucleusWaffles (3): Yaersulf, Serela, raikaria
Disquieted (2): banana spritzee, Tom
Daiya (1): BigBangMeteor
raikaria (1): NucleusWaffles
sb (0):
Yaersulf (0):
Tom (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
BigBangMeteor (0):
banana spritzee (0):
Fabloo (0):
PX (0):

There are currently 2 male characters and 11 female characters in the game.
With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Not voting: Daiya
Serela is a L-2!

Time until day phase ends: [ Expired ]

[NekoNekoRex]

I think it would be more genuine if rai was adamant about refusing to budge instead of saying "convince me" while ignoring the whole thing against serela