Author Topic: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin  (Read 1052 times)

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Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« on: February 10, 2025, 03:53:11 PM »
Recently, I discussed with one friend about an ambitious idea about developing Western doujin culture from people related to TouhouFest. I would like to share some thoughts about that.

There are a lot of serious differences between Japanese and Western Touhou communities.
We should understand who participate in doujin events. A big number of participants of doujin circles are university students, they have possibilities and don't have too many responsibilities, but at the same time they don't have a lot of money which they can spend on these activities (self-funds). In the past most general participants of Touhou-only events were students or older. Now, the number of much younger participants is increasing. But as Western Touhou Doujin culture would be "young" and most Western Touhou fans who would be ready to participate in such events in most cases aren't very young (I suppose, we don't have good demographics about Western Touhou community, more about that later), I think we can assume that most participants would be university students or slightly older.

Doujin activities are really expensive, in many cases circles (especially first-timers) don't earn money and lose it. The advantage the West has is that people in the West are much more tolerant to other ways to earn money (like donations and crowdfunding) besides sell-funds and profit from events. But if we would rely too much on these ways we can just get another indie culture. If you want to do doujin activities you should get used to the fact that in result you can lose money (be in red), because the main goal of doujin activities is to make goods and have fun, not making money (in indie culture the "profit-seeking" behavior is much more common). Modern doujin culture also requires serious infrastructure (like printing companies), otherwise it would be even more expensive for circles.
To temporary solve these, organizers might have to rely on wealthy circles which have enough money for such activities (but if this would not be controlled then there is a chance that such events will become much more commercialized; in addition, the circles' pockets are not bottomless). If in result the event is big enough, then there will be a chance that the event organizers will find sponsors who would be interested in supporting such activities, and there is a (smaller) chance that one of them would be interested in developing the infrastructure for the events.
Japanese Touhou fans also invented an alternative to Touhou-only sales events: Touhou-only reading clubs, but for their existence there should be so many fanworks that you cannot get/read all of them.

Next, even though there are a lot of Touhou fans in the West, their density is much lower compared to Japan, Korea, Taiwan or China. To get to the event in most cases you would have to pay much more money than Japanese doujin event participants do.
This problem is possible to solve. But for this Anime Club Kofu's strategy should be used. They organize a lot of small events in different areas as their goal is to make Touhou Doujin activities more accessible in such areas (of course, on such events there are not as many circles as on events in big cities, but such events can help a lot too). But such activities greatly increase the financial expenses for organizers (and for US it would be much more serious, I think; but if the organizers would be able to find a sponsor, someone rich who is a Touhou fan, it can help greatly at the beginning). In addition, there may be something like "Western Reitaisai" as a face event (it could be for example TouhouFest which is in California, but maybe there is a better place for such event, or there could also be "Western Kouroumu").
And here the meet the problem: we don't know the actual demographics of Western Touhou Community. We don't know where do Touhou fans live and how many fans in different areas are interested in such activities. For example, which country is the best place for the first European Touhou-only sales event? France? Maybe Germany? Or even Poland? We don't know. For this we should gather the information about most (or at least active) Touhou fans. My friend offered the idea of Western Touhou Popularity Poll. But we should organize it very careful to avoid fraud.
Similar practices have been used by Chinese Touhou fans for a long time. They collected data about Touhou fans using Chinese Touhou Popularity Poll, so they could know a lot of useful information about demographics. Using that information organizers of Touhou-Only events can better plan the places for the events (they also use local groups and chats for planning). They had people who were interested in development of Chinese Touhou Doujin. And to make events even more accessible for Touhou fans they organize in many different regions.

Finally, we shouldn't forget that such activities require enthusiasm. The current state of Western Touhou fandom... well, it is stagnating. And it is really fragmented. But I see that there are some possibilities for reclaim. But such moment shouldn't be missed and organizers of Western Touhou events should use it.
For example, the growth of doujin activities in China in late 2010s happened during the another rise of popularity of Touhou in China.

If the organizers of Western Touhou events would like to create Western Touhou Doujin sphere or something similar to doujin, the best thing they should do is learn from the experience of Japanese, Korean and Chinese Touhou Doujin spheres. They should learn how they developed in different conditions and what things they did were right or wrong and why. But they shouldn't just copy the practices which were used in Eastern Touhou Events. The West has its specifics too, which should be taken into account, some ideas that worked in Japan or China may not work in the West.

Branneg Xy

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Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2025, 04:24:23 PM »
At first notice..."Kappa Squad" https://mangadex.org/title/ebcd62e9-5a24-4aef-a586-2d399f4d30e2/touhou-kappa-squad (VPN might be required to access to  Mangadex,although it is still published through other sites*) may be an example of Western-based-published,by Europe-Germany, "close-to-pure"Comic-Doujinshi...at the as the same time they still retain multiple mostly-translated languages(from **German/DEutsche) and enough updating+creative+publishintg efforts.

* https://namicomi.com/en/title/HtYYbLJ5/touhou-kappa-squad/reviews is "graced" with a simpler, wider ,but still quite informative,entry-age,but the only available insight - on "Details" , the 2nd column by the center-left - about the languages is "the original anguage is "*ENGlish "...

The fore-windowed feont cover provides the author online  name-handle "Lilin" , the "KappaWerke" Circle of Artists , the Pixiv & Twitter(X) links-to-profile.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2025, 04:52:18 PM by Branneg Xy »
1.+This Real Photo "... and the WORD became Flesh", had been shoot by a Modern-Time Desert Father(Desertic Catholic Christian Community Monk+Ascetic) during THE HOLIEST CONSECRATION-MASS:The HOLIEST FAMILY of NAZARETH ALWAYS MYSTICALLY EVER-PRESENT and with ALSO THE CRISTCHILD BLESSING-https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3 , in EVERY HOLIEST MASS-HOST CONSECRATION BY the Ordanied PRIEST(S).
2(++RECOMMENDED+++) https://adoration.tyburnconvent.org.uk -https://tyburnconvent.org.uk
3.Youtube Channel/half-collections/half-references :
" FRA ALU BI Darcanix "

Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2025, 04:38:20 PM »
At first notice.."Kappa Squad" https://mangadex.org/title/ebcd62e9-5a24-4aef-a586-2d399f4d30e2/touhou-kappa-squad (VPN might be required to access to Mangadex) is an example of Western-based,Europe-Germany,Comic-Doujinshi which as the same time retains multiple translation languages and sufficient updating+creative efforts.
I'm afraid you didn't understand this topic. I wasn't talking about Western Touhou doujinshi alone (it is great that they exist). I was talking about the Western Touhou Doujin as a structure of Touhou-only events, about the idea how to create it and the ideas how to support it at the beginning. In my opinion it is a complex question that is why I made this topic.

Branneg Xy

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Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2025, 08:15:52 PM »
I'm afraid you didn't understand this topic. I wasn't talking about Western Touhou doujinshi alone (it is great that they exist). I was talking about the Western Touhou Doujin as a structure of Touhou-only events, about the idea how to create it and the ideas how to support it at the beginning. In my opinion it is a complex question that is why I made this topic.

If it is of any help and application there is a concrete resuming,research,fill-in,list and category at https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Convention (ENGlish-language portion,for the major but not the near-exclusive one,Western-wise).
Mostly loosely relatable https://pinky-cat.github.io/indexes/touhou-website-index.html
1.+This Real Photo "... and the WORD became Flesh", had been shoot by a Modern-Time Desert Father(Desertic Catholic Christian Community Monk+Ascetic) during THE HOLIEST CONSECRATION-MASS:The HOLIEST FAMILY of NAZARETH ALWAYS MYSTICALLY EVER-PRESENT and with ALSO THE CRISTCHILD BLESSING-https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3 , in EVERY HOLIEST MASS-HOST CONSECRATION BY the Ordanied PRIEST(S).
2(++RECOMMENDED+++) https://adoration.tyburnconvent.org.uk -https://tyburnconvent.org.uk
3.Youtube Channel/half-collections/half-references :
" FRA ALU BI Darcanix "

Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2025, 05:56:29 AM »
If it is of any help and application there is a concrete resuming,research,fill-in,list and category at https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Convention (ENGlish-language portion,for the major but not the near-exclusive one,Western-wise).
Mostly loosely relatable https://pinky-cat.github.io/indexes/touhou-website-index.html
Again, you didn't fully understand the topic. I am talking about current situation. This Touhou Wiki page is very outdated (the only edits there added 2 Western Touhou event) and most events are Japanese. Last year, Japan had 94 Touhou-only sales events, China 63 Touhou-only sales events (THO), Taiwan had 2 Touhou-only sales events, South Korea had 1 Touhou-only sales events (and they all also had other kinds of Touhou-only (offline) events). The West had ... [checking THBWiki] ... only TouhouFest, that is all. All other events like Touhou Fan Game Jam or BBEX were online. Even South Korea has a bigger scale of Touhou activities, because they also had 1 LIVE, 2 concerts and 1 critical event. But the West is much larger, maybe has a lot of active fans (again, we don't have good demographics of Western Touhou Community), and has possibilities for such activities. But there are still very few Western Touhou-only events.
Thanks, I know about Pinky Cat's site.

williewillus

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Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2025, 06:14:30 AM »
wealthy circles which have enough money for such activities
Who? I doubt any western Touhou circle is wealthy or even profitable.

Next, even though there are a lot of Touhou fans in the West, their density is much lower compared to Japan, Korea, Taiwan or China. To get to the event in most cases you would have to pay much more money than Japanese doujin event participants do.
This problem is possible to solve. But for this Anime Club Kofu's strategy should be used. They organize a lot of small events in different areas as their goal is to make Touhou Doujin activities more accessible in such areas (of course, on such events there are not as many circles as on events in big cities, but such events can help a lot too).

This is the main problem, the dispersal of people across a wide geographical area. Add to the the absolute piss-poor state of transportation in the USA (you have to drive literally everywhere), it makes people really demotivated. Why commute to your nearest city to meet maybe 10 people, when you could save money and go to Touhoufest and meet 500 or more?
It's not like China where you can hop on a high-speed rail and pop out in Shanghai for the largest Chinese Touhou-only event, then pop back home, all for cheap. Cross-US plane tickets are expensive.

I do think there's room for a Touhou convention on the east coast of the USA (which would also be convenient for the Europeans), but no one as stood up and organized it yet. As with all things in doujin culture, it's up to the people to make the things that they want.

And here the meet the problem: we don't know the actual demographics of Western Touhou Community. We don't know where do Touhou fans live and how many fans in different areas are interested in such activities. For example, which country is the best place for the first European Touhou-only sales event? France? Maybe Germany? Or even Poland? We don't know. For this we should gather the information about most (or at least active) Touhou fans. My friend offered the idea of Western Touhou Popularity Poll. But we should organize it very careful to avoid fraud.

I do think a Western popularity/demographic poll is a good idea, but you have to make sure it reaches all the places it needs to reach given the fragmentation in the community. You'd need someone with significant connections with multiple parts of the community, or ride along the coattails of something like Touhoufest.

Re: Some thoughts about the idea of Western Touhou Doujin
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2025, 05:13:50 PM »
Who? I doubt any western Touhou circle is wealthy or even profitable.

It is a good question. Maybe the circles which could afford to participate in both TouhouFests (there were around 8 of them), or maybe the ones which get a lot of donations. I don't know how much money each circle has, how much money they got or lose on events.

This is the main problem, the dispersal of people across a wide geographical area. Add to the the absolute piss-poor state of transportation in the USA (you have to drive literally everywhere), it makes people really demotivated. Why commute to your nearest city to meet maybe 10 people, when you could save money and go to Touhoufest and meet 500 or more?
It's not like China where you can hop on a high-speed rail and pop out in Shanghai for the largest Chinese Touhou-only event, then pop back home, all for cheap. Cross-US plane tickets are expensive.

I do think there's room for a Touhou convention on the east coast of the USA (which would also be convenient for the Europeans), but no one as stood up and organized it yet. As with all things in doujin culture, it's up to the people to make the things that they want.

So we have expensive travelings, and I don't think many people can afford to travel to USA just to attend one Touhou-only event. It would be more convenient to have a local Touhou-only event for this. You are afraid that there would be only 10 people, but we cannot be sure about this. First of all we don't know the demographics, so there maybe be a Western city with hundreds of Touhou fan, but they just don't know about that. And if there is choice between a far big event (for example Reitaisai) with high travel cost and a local near event (where you also can forget about language barriers), I think many people would prefer the latter option.
I think one of the reasons why nobody organized an Touhou-only event on the East Cost is that people don't know about perspectives of such events. How many people would come? How many of them would like to help the event (maybe with money)? That is why there should a lot of questions related to such topics in a Western Touhou Popularity Poll.

About China I attached the image below (there are a lot of local events). About more detailed information in Japan you can read my research about Japanese Touhou Doujin (again there are a lot of local events).



I do think a Western popularity/demographic poll is a good idea, but you have to make sure it reaches all the places it needs to reach given the fragmentation in the community. You'd need someone with significant connections with multiple parts of the community, or ride along the coattails of something like Touhoufest.

Sadly, I don't have a lot of such connections. But I hope that people who have connections to Western Touhou influencers (and not only English ones, for example Suzunaan) would be able to organize it.