Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Zoomy Tsugumi on February 20, 2020, 05:02:58 AM

Title: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on February 20, 2020, 05:02:58 AM
New forum, new floor.

An archive of the previous threads and the links on the first post can be found here. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11e2MS6q90gUg3DDgYa3A0HbSfzXbmR4jBnoQXMolH0g/) But to start a new trend and condense the list a bit, I'll narrow it down to some more relevant links.

English Wiki
LoT1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)

Japanese Wiki
LoT1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)

LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip) (Special disk only)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/?t1v567p5sced1zl)
New Game+ file for version 3.01 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DSAYXQ7SYjcctCd7Q_YE9TIIAIGXdKSb)

LoT 2, its Patches, and other downloads
The place to go to buy a legitimate copy of the game. (https://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ118525.html)
Plus Disc is purchasable here (https://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ170376.html)

Start game with all (Pre-Plus Disk) characters (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1K5uXVtRxNDfbEP347zZ0Mcy06-kMx234)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Translation patch for LoT2 as of 2020/03/15 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1INKjpGCZs9lTk_BVhViMad4zjkOh5ZU7/view)
1.203 translation with image dxas (for translated images) (https://www.mediafire.com/file/ov09hclzlu69bn5/LoT2_1203_exe_and_image_archives.rar/file)

Enemy Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnlnx9stxxybinb/enemy_info%20v2.zip?dl=0)
Contains their Stats, Affinities, Ailment Resistances, EXP, Money, Drops, and Types

Spellcard Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujydvnmgj466eaq/spellcard_info.zip?dl=0)
4 text files for Characters, Commands, Enemies, and Subclass data in a zip file

Passive Skill Info (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jovqyauwx24odf/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202%20Passive%20Skills.txt?dl=0)
Data on all the character's passive skills that affect damage formulas, stats, etc

Enemy AI Dump (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfpfenffpit76yr/lot2_enemy_ai_dump.txt?dl=0)
Image Packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)

3peso's website (https://n-e-studio.com/)
LoT2 Plus' website (https://n-e-studio.com/THL2P/top.html)
LoT2's website (https://n-e-studio.com/THL2/top.htm)

Let me know if any links are busted or if things need to be added. Happy dungeon crawling!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on February 20, 2020, 05:14:47 AM
To kick things off, with the impending (ableit very far off apparently) release of LoT3, I figure it'd be a good idea to at least fully flesh out the wiki for LoT2. So I prepared a save file for NG, Pre-20F-Murakumo (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sR3c80MzrDho6rVzDEW7bBMWACjyppPw). Everyone's library levels reset too with Tomes of Reincarnation, so you're free to build whomever you want, however you want.

Ideally we can fill the rest of the +Disk floors up with strategies and guides beyond just having a map on the latter floors.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TobikoTakatou on February 20, 2020, 07:30:44 PM
I need to start playing LoT sometime! All the discussion of it drives me to believe it'll be a lot of fun, if a bit of a time-consumer.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on February 21, 2020, 05:52:25 AM
Would definitely recommend it! 2 is a fair bit more beginner friendly thanks to all the QoL changes but if you liked 2, then 1's a pretty enjoyable experience also. Definitely a time sink on both games but a fun one for sure.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TheWeirdOtaku on February 21, 2020, 03:22:01 PM
It's a lot of fun, you should totally try it!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on February 21, 2020, 06:21:51 PM
I brought this up in the discord while v3 was setting up, might as well post it here for documentation purposes. There were a few inconsistencies in the Bestiary entries in the wiki, some stats got fixed/updated for Plus Disk v1.105b, mostly typo fixes like some random trash mob on 16F having 660 FIR affinity instead of 66, but there were some balance changes too. I put all the enemy stats into a big spreadsheet to help visualize everything, and listed the base game differences in the pastebin below. Libra has already updated the wiki with everything, including Plus Disk differences, which I was too lazy to check :P

Google Sheet with all enemy stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13YPClLU66WoLjUMIVSTfEqjJOBy-AeqiHv23HlCz_y0/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13YPClLU66WoLjUMIVSTfEqjJOBy-AeqiHv23HlCz_y0/edit?usp=sharing)
Pastebin with base game differences: https://pastebin.com/0kXXSABR (https://pastebin.com/0kXXSABR)

The enemy order in the sheets follows the game's bestiary order (kind of): Mobs from 1F -> 30F, then B1F -> B11F, FOEs, Base game bosses, Shadow bosses, Postgame bosses, Murakumo v2, B1-B11F non-Touhou bosses, Orochi heads and forms, Hollow Orochi and heads, Dragon God forms, 29F super bosses (except King for some reason?), Murakumo v3, Shadow Touhous, Shadow Touhous (Heaven). It doesn't cover the IC stuff since I couldn't find that in the data, it's probably stored elsewhere in the game's files.

Speaking of the game files, I documented the exact process I went about to extract this info from the game's 1.105b exe, just in case someone wants to verify this information or in case a new patch comes around and someone wants to check for more changes. You can read it all in this pastebin: https://pastebin.com/jhQa6uyy (https://pastebin.com/jhQa6uyy)

Digging through the enemy data there were also 2 unused enemies with stats, one with no attributed image file and one with what seems to be a placeholder drop item. I attached their bestiary entries from hacking the game's save file. Burning Claw Demon is next to the 15F bestiary entries, and Happy Friends next to the B4F enemies.

I wanted to try extracting the enemy AI next, but that's gonna be a big pain to reverse engineer since it requires decompiling the game code and finding out which function does what. Is anyone here familiar with how EthanSilver achieved it for the base game? If there was some specific tool used or some address offset that had enemy AI in them, it could shed some light into where to begin looking for Plus Disk AI stuff.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on February 24, 2020, 08:53:54 AM
couldn't help but notice that the google sheet doesn't have enchanced ryujin, does he not have a separate bestiary entry or has he just not been documented yet? (i base this off of the fact that there's no enemies listed under level 12800, correct me if i'm mistaken)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on February 25, 2020, 01:18:39 AM
It doesn't get a separate bestiary entry since it's just the same thing at a higher level.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on February 25, 2020, 09:15:49 AM
It doesn't get a separate bestiary entry since it's just the same thing at a higher level.

yea makes sense, like how the infinity corridor enemies have entries for level 1 versions of themselves, kind of a dumb question on my part in hindsight.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 02, 2020, 07:15:23 PM
There was another update on Labyrinth of Touhou 3 from 3peso yesterday, since it hasn't been posted here I thought I'd get that out of the way.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESBzmHpVUAEFZCj?format=jpg&name=large)

Highlighting the upgrade system for sub equipment, by using materials and other sub equipment you can upgrade sub equipment. Each upgrade is a 10% increase to the base stat, and upgrades also add additional effects and an Awakening Effect (覚醒効果). In the screenshot shown, the Life Piece has HP+22%, all stats+22%, accuracy and evasion+22, and the Awakening Effect "Base HP Increase Lv3".
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on March 02, 2020, 08:46:33 PM
with this and the skill tree, there looks to be a lot more customization available, which is always a good thing. while i liked lot2's systems, imo lots of characters didn't really have too much choices you could take with building them, so i'm really looking forward to seeing how far all this goes, especially if we get another system like the greater awk jewels (hopefully earlier in the game this time around).

on an unrelated note, i'd like to report a strange thing i found on the technical side of things in lot2. winner on 28f naturally caps out at 200 kills i.e. level 41k. despite this, the value that stores the amount of kills uses two bytes instead of one, therefore setting the amount of kills to the maximum possible leaves his level at around 13 million. but if the game is restarted, the amount of kills (for whatever reason) goes to 255 i.e. level 52k. then, killing him again sets it back down to 200, where it remains capped and no longer naturally scales.  i don't know if this has any use, i've tried performing similar tests in infinity corridor, but the game isn't letting me modify the floor i'm at anymore (it just sets it back to whatever floor i'm actually at), but if anyone else could provide insight on this, i'd be thankful.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on March 03, 2020, 07:15:15 PM
I didn't know Winner had a natural cap in this game, that's very neat, makes reaching the victory cap on him a "feasible" goal like in LoT1 with the 255 cap. Not that I think anyone would bother grinding to level 40k. A similar cap is used for special items (all items? I really can't remember), where the game uses 2 bytes to store how many you have, but naturally caps at 200.

However with items, the game just sets the value to 0 instead of reducing to the 200 cap, which makes resetting via Tome of Reincarnation very annoying later on since you'll easily get 200 gems from B11F grinding, only to go over the 200 cap when reincarnating someone. The game actually registers you have over 200 gems, counting all the way to 65535 normally, but the moment you save, quit and load, you get 0 gems for some reason, the game probably assumes there's no way to go over 200 so it assumes you cheated? :p

i've tried performing similar tests in infinity corridor, but the game isn't letting me modify the floor i'm at anymore (it just sets it back to whatever floor i'm actually at), but if anyone else could provide insight on this, i'd be thankful.

The best way to edit your current IC floor is via save file hacking. With a hex editor, you can edit the PEX01.ngd file, at offset 0xAE you'll find a 4-byte value corresponding to the current floor. Note this is a signed integer, so values over 0x7FFFFFFF will lead to negative floor numbers, that surprisingly work normally until you encounter an enemy, leading to a game crash. Even if you get past the enemies and reach a boss floor, the game also crashes when trying to load the boss.

As far as IC floor hacking goes, 3peso actually forgot to apply the level cap on enemies, even though other stats are properly capped (i.e. HP caps at 10 quadrillion, but level does not cap at 10 million), which leads to some very funky overflow issues when the level gets absurdly high. The last "honest" boss fight is at floor 2,898,480 with a Shadow Shou, with a level under 10 million. From then on bosses inflate their levels normally, making every stat get near its cap until it overflows. So long as the calculated stat is lower than 2^64, the stat cap is properly applied (may be 2^63, not sure if it uses signed or unsigned integers), but if it overflows then it will go back to very small amounts you would see in 1-5F bosses. By this point the corridor becomes a big mess with difficulty, with random crashes happening on random encounters with what I assume are overflow issues caused by the absent level cap.

By the time the boss level goes over 0x7FFFFFFF into the negative values, by floor 622,458,970, random enemies always crash the game thanks to the overflow issues, and boss stats will be all over the place. Surprisingly, if you manage to not reach any encounters, everything actually works normally, you can progress through IC still. That is until floor 1,244,917,990, where the game tries to load a Shadow Kasen with level 0xFFFFFFFF, aka -1. The game goes into what I assume is an endless loop trying to compute her stats, and crashes, making that floor the lowest theoretical floor you can go without manually hacking your save file. If you do that the last boss becomes a Shadow Cirno on floor 2,147,483,640, before the floor count goes into the negative values, leading to game crashes on any fights, including bosses.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TheWeirdOtaku on March 09, 2020, 01:55:00 PM
Finally managed to beat floor 28's boss that let's you progress further up, next goal is the Infinite Corridor 100f boss, I just lack a way to deal with the Space Time Compression move.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on March 09, 2020, 08:58:55 PM
That fight was pretty hard I remember.
Space Time Compression should be void element. So Komachi who has void resist may be pretty good. If I remember correctly you need like 200 death resist to survive the instant death attack the boss does, which Komachi can also get. Mokou would be good for similar reasons.
I forgot if  Space Time Compression was time based or percentage based.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 09, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
100f Corridor boss uses several moves based on its current HP. Rough estimates are

90%: Spirit Decomposition
80%: Space-Time Warp > Disintegrating Breath
75%: Great Calamity
60%: Spirit Decomposition
50%: Great Destruction
40%: Space-Time Warp > Disintegrating Breath
30%: Spirit Decomposition
25%: Great Calamity
10%: Spirit Decomposition

These attacks are done in order, none of them get skipped or take priority over another. So by keeping the damage up all of the boss' actions past the first one will always be the same.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TheWeirdOtaku on March 10, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
If I remember correctly you need like 200 death resist to survive the instant death attack the boss does, which Komachi can also get. Mokou would be good for similar reasons.

Sadly that isn't very reliable due to the entire frontline getting randomly replaced right before the Disintegrating Breath hits, which wipes most of my party.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 10, 2020, 09:02:08 PM
It's not so bad if you gear your party for it. Ran some calculations back when 100f was the furthest Corridor went and it was possible for all but about three characters (Patchouli, Kaguya, and Suwako, Patchouli and Suwako gained adjustments to their Awakenings that make them more durable) to survive it at Reimu 540 and library 600 with 3x Long Sword "Crimson Princess" and Tokugawa/First Aid Kit. Since then, level scaling has been adjusted a little so that the 100f boss is level 575 instead of 600.

I think the level 600 version has somewhere around 770K ATK (somewhere between 730-810K), naturally the numbers will be lower for the 575 version. Disintegrating Breath is 66% ATK and ignores defenses as confirmed on Discord, so under that assumption of 770K ATK, Disintegrating Breath averages 508K damage, before applying damage reducing effects, ATK debuffs, and VOI resistance. Strategist is the most clearly useful of them all, being -10% for the entire frontline as long as you have one up. That alone brings it down to about 457K. For comparison, in my party composition when I did the 100f boss, the only characters I had below 500K were Akyuu (she takes 50% VOI damage and Miare's Power lets her revive reliably anyway, plus invincibility), Aya (144K, she would get KO'd if it hit), and Tenshi (primary attacker, just had Akyuu give her invincibility). Transcendent helps to patch up the weaker party members by boosting their HP and giving them another -10% damage reduction to work with, making the minimum amount of HP needed about 411K when combined with a Strategist. By making the more durable characters Strategists, you can increase the odds of having one after a Space-Time Warp. You can also use the Quartz Charm for another -20% damage, which would make it so that even a bulky Transcendent attacker with no HP investment in level up bonuses could survive Disintegrating Breath.

And this isn't getting into ATK debuffs. A -10% ATK debuff is directly equivalent in power to a -10% damage reduction, and the 100f Corridor boss has low ATK debuff resistance. By putting all of these together it's fairly reliable to survive Disintegrating Breath with appropriate defensive investments on everyone.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Kalaophe on March 13, 2020, 04:08:04 PM
Hello. Went back to this game a few months back with a fresh save and played all the way to beating both Full power Dragon God and Will of Gensokyo. Along the way I wrote progression guides that cover pretty much most of the game. I intended to use it to help with my future playthroughs, but I figured I might share them here as well.

13-20F (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m17VL642HTYQ42VFAU95ohHfcnXKhRMjWyjgrxJgT20/edit?usp=sharing)
Extra areas (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oTdgt6LtQ8p3D6vOkpOCziHw5HlmQpZZDx5VPzG3Hzg/edit?usp=sharing)
Plus Disk story (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sL7mXeqVPuaYdwI-ktoBbysanZym9LLb6HWzBSjR2tQ/edit?usp=sharing)
Plus Disk postgame 1 (up to King) (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cvyIBUUReH0MeYAFxVqR38jVQYB4_PKiP_enfNAMrs0/edit?usp=sharing)
Plus Disk postgame 2 (everything beyond that) (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eWZ3f5iZR61-Yv1Zwo9TPCd5KQhtM2TlwJAPfqdVzns/edit?usp=sharing)

Maps were taken from both atwiki and Touhou Wiki.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on March 15, 2020, 03:49:13 AM
Oh these are some fantastic guides! May it be possible to use some of the info to put up on the wiki potentially?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Kalaophe on March 15, 2020, 05:33:42 AM
Oh these are some fantastic guides! May it be possible to use some of the info to put up on the wiki potentially?

Sure thing. I've been updating some parts of the wiki myself while writing and can help with those too.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 15, 2020, 07:49:26 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETITSMOUcAAYsTu?format=jpg&name=large)

New update, revised Awakening system. Details about how it works aren't specified, but the menu says "Items Required for Awakening". The top item is 苦悩する者達の夢魂, "Dream Soul of Suffering People" or something along those lines. Patchouli's growth rates were also adjusted a little.

HP: 68 -> 64
ATK: 20 -> 32
DEF: 24 -> 24 (no change)
MAG: 162 -> 154
MND: 166 -> 160
SPD: 54 -> 64

There's a list of characters, but unfortunately no new ones. List is Alice, Nitori, Aya, Patchouli, Cirno, Keine, Doremy.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on March 16, 2020, 05:17:28 PM
This should be the thlaby2 font by the way, for everyone experiencing text issues/overflow. It's not included with the game or in windows by default.

http://fonts3.com/fonts/m/meiryo.html
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Leggo-ssi on March 25, 2020, 12:22:29 PM
Hello there!

Been an avid fan of the LoT games, especially the first one, which I loved a lot.
In order to get a better grip at LoT2 and its individual boss mechanics (of which I struggled a lot with since its release), I started a Team 9 run, from which I heared of in the past threads (currently at 6F, trying to get the Divine Barrier off Tenshi). Is there anything that I need to keep in mind with the run?

I'd love to challenge the Plus Disk content with them!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on March 26, 2020, 10:21:34 PM
This should be the thlaby2 font by the way, for everyone experiencing text issues/overflow. It's not included with the game or in windows by default.

http://fonts3.com/fonts/m/meiryo.html

Just to add to this, the Japanese fonts that came bundled with Windows 7/8/8.1 got removed by default on Windows 10 to reduce the OS footprint. You can very easily add them back via Windows Language Settings, without changing your locale or system language settings. Microsoft has a nice support page on this with a step-by-step: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-10-missing-fonts (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-10-missing-fonts)

This also installs other very common Japanese fonts that you might be missing, and you never know when some other Japanese game will use one of these fonts, leaving you wondering which one you're missing and all. There are Chinese fonts as well but I'm unaware of that being an issue with Chinese fangames. :P
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 02, 2020, 08:58:36 PM
Anyone else having problems with the latest translation? I tried adding the strdump from the old forum and their new versions of the fixes, but nothing worked, Spellcard info text is not translated, and many dialogs arent, like a Keine dialog in the intro, and almost all of the Ame no Murakumo speech in floor 20, from what I've read, it was broken by the 1.105b update that changed the adress of some text and this broke it

But then I saw a guy on Youtube playing plus disk, same version and he doesn't have this issue
Pics here, because embedding causes errors
https://imgur.com/a/7jFQHOm
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on April 03, 2020, 01:02:46 AM
Try using this version of the patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1INKjpGCZs9lTk_BVhViMad4zjkOh5ZU7/view
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 03, 2020, 08:49:07 AM
Thanks, now it is translated perfectly
 (https://i.imgur.com/wyV4wtT.png)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on April 03, 2020, 11:14:40 PM
I updated the OP to reflect that
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: dobuch on April 27, 2020, 08:52:24 PM
I wonder, does anybody here know if/how the noencounters.txt is supposed to work? I'm quite fed up with the random schmucks that I have to kill when running through the maps to get that 100% map clear.

I tried using a hex editor on the exe, going to the lines specified and overwriting their contents with what was written below, but all I managed to do was make the game crash on startup  ::)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 27, 2020, 09:54:20 PM
I wonder, does anybody here know if/how the noencounters.txt is supposed to work? I'm quite fed up with the random schmucks that I have to kill when running through the maps to get that 100% map clear.

I got it working via cheatengine, but sadly the address changes between each opening of the game, as it does with the characters stats so you will have to search for the value each time
To do it, go to the dungeon and move a bit, then in cheatengine load up the process of the game, and search for a 4 Bytes exact value equal to the encounter rate, with the decimals as if they were a whole number (for example, 54.2% becomes 542), it will show you many numbers, then move Reimu and search for the new encounter rate number, this should narrow the results to 1, if it doesn't, repeat until you get the desired results, here is a pic of me finding the adress, notice how the values of the others are empty or in question marks, that is because the game chooses a different address each time for reasons unknown to me (https://i.imgur.com/As2uUwT.png)

If I have time I will try to do a mini guide in video format
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: dobuch on April 28, 2020, 07:17:36 AM
great explanation
Oh, when I tried using CE I was searching for a float value and gave up.

I pretty much found it instantly now, thank you!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on May 04, 2020, 03:36:45 PM
I wonder, does anybody here know if/how the noencounters.txt is supposed to work? I'm quite fed up with the random schmucks that I have to kill when running through the maps to get that 100% map clear.

I tried using a hex editor on the exe, going to the lines specified and overwriting their contents with what was written below, but all I managed to do was make the game crash on startup  ::)

Using a hex editor is what you should do, but I haven't updated that file in many versions. I wasn't aware I was even including it. So yeah the values are completely wrong, and a crash is about what you can expect.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: IRUN on May 06, 2020, 08:03:48 AM
Wow, it's only been two years after I finished Labyrinth of Touhou 2 and the sequel is already in the works‽  :D
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on May 09, 2020, 02:55:19 AM
New translation patch, with a bunch of minor text fixes:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tWh5bXlZkE14XWQfGhJ76rS_Ich6Hoo7
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gesh86 on May 10, 2020, 05:14:06 PM
New translation patch, with a bunch of minor text fixes:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tWh5bXlZkE14XWQfGhJ76rS_Ich6Hoo7

Is it correct that the current story translation still ends at 27F? Or does it go further with this newest patch?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on May 10, 2020, 06:56:30 PM
Is it correct that the current story translation still ends at 27F? Or does it go further with this newest patch?

looking at the "Story" folder, the rest of the plus disk stuff after 27F has indeed been translated
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TheWeirdOtaku on May 12, 2020, 09:58:46 PM
Curious, is it possible to start NG+ with the Plus Disc characters, or is that completely out of the question?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 12, 2020, 11:07:47 PM
Is it correct that the current story translation still ends at 27F? Or does it go further with this newest patch?
All the story has already been translated.

Curious, is it possible to start NG+ with the Plus Disc characters, or is that completely out of the question?
Yes, it's possible, you can use these saves by Zarator:
-https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1NG_XIauq-SIluu859lfZnWrdb9Y8brwm?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1NG_XIauq-SIluu859lfZnWrdb9Y8brwm?usp=sharing) (Normal)
-https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YzQHxR8bp8ZMcyFNMHFStYFPck-Dmn1c?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YzQHxR8bp8ZMcyFNMHFStYFPck-Dmn1c?usp=sharing) (Hard)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on May 13, 2020, 01:06:55 AM
Do these saves have the full BP requirements already met too?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 13, 2020, 06:03:56 AM
Do these saves have the full BP requirements already met too?
No, these don't have that. I know Zarator also made those, but I don't think they ever shared both of them, only the Normal version, so I just posted the regular ones.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gesh86 on May 13, 2020, 09:42:14 AM
looking at the "Story" folder, the rest of the plus disk stuff after 27F has indeed been translated

All the story has already been translated.

Whoops, I must have missed a pivotal update that added them quite a while ago. Applied the patch and it works. Thanks for the replies!
I had put my LoT2 playthrough into hibernation months ago when the dialogue on 28F had only been in japanese. Looking forward to returning to it in the near future, probably after I'm done with TPDP Yume no Kakera.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: TheWeirdOtaku on May 13, 2020, 10:05:16 AM
Yes, it's possible, you can use these saves by Zarator

Thank you!!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on May 13, 2020, 09:46:34 PM
I will check that translation patch, in my recent gameplay I found this untranslated kanji after the fight with the
Yamata no Orochi
, hopefully this new translation will fix it
Also, somewhere Reimu was called Riemu, around that same part
(https://i.imgur.com/xyCmXue.png)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on May 14, 2020, 01:24:12 AM
Riemu is fixed, this will be in the next patch.

I think that random kanji is fixed - I thought it was already fixed in the patch I just posted. It's a weird one, because in the original, he's not saying anything at all. That text line is just supposed to be a blank space.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 14, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
I think that random kanji is fixed - I thought it was already fixed in the patch I just posted. It's a weird one, because in the original, he's not saying anything at all. That text line is just supposed to be a blank space.
Yeah, I just tested it and it's now a proper blank space.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 17, 2020, 04:11:29 PM
Hey guys, noob here, excuse my english.
So since i'm bad at the game, i decided to grind!
Am at main game, and noticed some interesting things with Nazrin.
These might be known already, but i haven't seen it mentioned at the wiki, though i didn't look very hard.

Basically, if you are using Nazrin to farm for money, and youre using her dowsing tech #1 spellcard, it gives you a 1.66 money multiplier.
The game says that it multiplies money dropped by enemies by 1.66 ,but from what ive seen it simply works as if you had a 166% money bonus from consecutive battles, and/or equips, other party members, but not actually incrasing the base money dropped by enemies.
(The consecutive battle bonus seems to be capped at 50 battles (or around 50), anything further will not give you bonuses.)

What this means is that the equips and party members you have in your party to incrase rewards essentialy do absolutely nothing, until you reach a money bonus above 166%

--This is under the assumption that nazrin will kill every enemy using her dowsing tech #1 and extra steps.

So in order to get the maximum amount of rewards, that would be to use nazrin until you reach a 166% reward bonus, then simply ditch her, because, her spell wont give you more money(i dont think it reduces the amount of money dropped if you have a higher multiplier than 166%)

This could be rather convinient, as you dont have to do long chains while using nazrin and letting her kill everything.

The exact same thing applies to her EXP CLD spell.

Tests were done at 20f depths, and 11f extra center.

I'm wondering if the items bonus technique of nazrin works the same way.
That would mean that it would work as if you had a 200% item drop rate bonus, which again, would make other charaters, as well as her own passive skill (20% incrase) useless, only if she kills everything with the WND downsing #2.

UNLESS:
The spellcard does in fact double the base drop rate of items, which could mean that it would stack with other item drop rate bonuses.
I have no way of testing this, because i don't know whether or not i got lucky after each battle.
I seem to be having more luck with items after long chains, even if nazrin kills everything, but that could very well be just placebo.

If there's someone with videogame magic coding haxor skills, i would appreciate if you could somehow check.
Also, if this is known already pls enlighten me.



Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 17, 2020, 07:18:05 PM
Basically, if you are using Nazrin to farm for money, and youre using her dowsing tech #1 spellcard, it gives you a 1.66 money multiplier.
The game says that it multiplies money dropped by enemies by 1.66 ,but from what ive seen it simply works as if you had a 166% money bonus from consecutive battles, and/or equips, other party members, but not actually incrasing the base money dropped by enemies.
She does increase base money dropped, as an example, try killing the Lesser Golem on 3F with it, you'll see you get 664 money, while the Golem's base money drop is 400. That base amount shown at the end of combat is then multiplied by the special item/consecutive combat bonus (so if you have a 50% bonus you'd get 664*1.5).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 17, 2020, 08:14:29 PM
She does increase base money dropped, as an example, try killing the Lesser Golem on 3F with it, you'll see you get 664 money, while the Golem's base money drop is 400. That base amount shown at the end of combat is then multiplied by the special item/consecutive combat bonus (so if you have a 50% bonus you'd get 664*1.5).

I have done some further testing if you're interested.

Main game Floor 17F!
This time i only brought nazrin to battle.

So for the test i picked the literal first random encounter enemy compositon that i would need later to compare.
This was:

1 Devil Kedama
1 Pengu Gem

That was my very first battle. I made sure to use gold rush on both of them.

Results:
I got 394 money, with my money bonus being 9%.

Then i started battling till i got this exact same enemy composition.
This took me 15 battles.

On battle sixteen with enemies being:
1 Devil kedama
1 Pangu Gem

At the end result screen my money bonus was arund 45% (i also equiped a viloet green rupee)
Again, I made sure to use gold rush on both of them.

And this time i got 394 money  again!
Had the money bonus applied on top of gold rush, i would have gotten above 500 money.

To me it seems like it nazrin spells ignore these bonuses,as long as its below the specified amount(1.66=166%)
However be sure to check yourself too, because i could be wrong of course.
It mostly just comes to lucky with the rng to get the same exact room.

On an unrelated note,
Since the only party member i had was nazrin, my party level was way lower then the enemies avarage level.

And i got showered with items! Very much so, i didn't even use the dowsing tech #2.

I did notice this a bit before, but I wanna see if i'm just making stuff up, because I'm consistently getting more items on a lower party level.
But of course i could have been just lucky.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on May 17, 2020, 09:49:14 PM
Question, when you say 394 money, you mean the display after battle or an actual calculation of the money you had pre battle and post battle?
Because the displays post battle are just the base amounts without any bonus applied to them, same for the exp
I can understand having different amounts for exp, since every char gains exp at different speeds, but money is just 1 value, they couldn't show the correct money values post battle?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 17, 2020, 11:24:04 PM
Question, when you say 394 money, you mean the display after battle or an actual calculation of the money you had pre battle and post battle?
Because the displays post battle are just the base amounts without any bonus applied to them, same for the exp
I can understand having different amounts for exp, since every char gains exp at different speeds, but money is just 1 value, they couldn't show the correct money values post battle?

Damn.
i never thought of that.
Well this makes my posts meaningless :p

It is exactly as how you say.
The amount of money you have doesn't accurately line up with what yould should be getting according to the post battle screen.
Pulling out the calculator for some quick maths, the actual bonus you're getting is very very very  close to the numbers presented.
So i guess everything works as intended, thanks for the clear up kael.

Well at least this won't come up again, as it is now solved.

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on May 20, 2020, 11:11:39 PM
So, im nearing the bottom floor and the ??? Boss there nukes me at the end with a multi element attack, which I dont know how it works
The attack is spirit, dark and mystic, so if I have 200 affinity in each, the damage gets halved 3 times? Or does it only consider the highest/lowest affinity?
Same with Awakened miko, her Tradition of just rewards becomes dual element, anyone knows how this works?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on May 21, 2020, 04:05:32 AM
It only considers the lowest affinity. So, with dual-elemental attacks on your own team (Mamizou/Miko/Kokoro) it essentially targets the most vulnerable element possessed. You can have 500 of two of the elements, but if you have 50 affinity to one, the entire attack is considered as targetting 50 affinity.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 22, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
Bit of off topic, does anyone know what the EVA number represents?
Is it (Enemy ACC-Charater EVA) or what determines the chance of evading an attack?
Im trying to give some charaters a defensive option, who have low SPD or bad affinities.
Though Byakuren with 80 EVA seems to evade fairly regurarly, so it might just be some specific enemies having low ACC attacks.
What would be a good baseline EVA to work with defensively that isn't overkill?

Also I wonder if Bosses/Foes have ACC modifiers on ther spellcards, just like some chararters do.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 22, 2020, 06:23:28 PM
Bit of off topic, does anyone know what the EVA number represents?
Is it (Enemy ACC-Charater EVA) or what determines the chance of evading an attack?
Im trying to give some charaters a defensive option, who have low SPD or bad affinities.
Though Byakuren with 80 EVA seems to evade fairly regurarly, so it might just be some specific enemies having low ACC attacks.
What would be a good baseline EVA to work with defensively that isn't overkill?

Also I wonder if Bosses/Foes have ACC modifiers on ther spellcards, just like some chararters do.
While the specifics aren't known, it's been tested that even with more evasion than the enemy has accuracy you can still get hit, so it's most likely a division instead of a substraction; so you can never guarantee a character will dodge everything no matter how much EVA they have or how little ACC the enemy has. 80-100 EVA is generally already fairly decent.

And yes, some enemy attacks also have ACC modifiers, though they're not that common and mostly just used by bosses.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on May 23, 2020, 03:11:19 AM
Everyone just having EVA boost in plus disk gives some decent evading here and there, but eventually you get some real EVA monsters who can easily reach 120~200 and they can semi-reliably dodge even superboss attacks. Roughly 100 eva is still helpful overall.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on May 23, 2020, 12:32:00 PM
From personal experience, it feels like the dodge works a bit like affinities with some additions, if you have 0 evasion you will never dodge anything, if the enemy has for example 60 accuracy, 60 of your dodge is negated, if you have around 100 evade, counting the enemy accuracy, you dodge around half the attacks, with 200, around 75%, with 300 evade, around 87.5%, and so on
It feels like it is that way because when you fight high evade enemies, the chance is never 0, this is my guess, as such, the formula is probably different

This feels specially true when fighting
Koishi with her 1000 dodge
cuz the chance to hit her is very low, but never 0

But since this is Labyrinth of Touhou, the formula is probably more complex than necessary, I will never forget how in Laby 1 the resistances had to be multiplied by 3 for your chars, and the stats for enemies worked in a different way than yours too~
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 26, 2020, 02:13:09 PM
From personal experience, it feels like the dodge works a bit like affinities with some additions, if you have 0 evasion you will never dodge anything, if the enemy has for example 60 accuracy, 60 of your dodge is negated, if you have around 100 evade, counting the enemy accuracy, you dodge around half the attacks, with 200, around 75%, with 300 evade, around 87.5%, and so on
It feels like it is that way because when you fight high evade enemies, the chance is never 0, this is my guess, as such, the formula is probably different
That might be, tough it might depend on luck moreso, my koishi with 204 evade while can dodge frequently, my byakuren with 90 EVA also seems to dodge quite a lot, though it might just seem that way as she is slot 1, thus getting hit more often.
But yeah, i suspect there are some heavy diminishing returns on higher values of EVA.

I was mostly asking since i was wondering what the gameplan would be for charaters with poor defenses, giant delays, but skills that make you not want to switch them out.
In theory at least, im not sure if such a charater even exists.
I was playing around with Utsuho, and Giga Flare makes me scratch my head a bit.
The delay on it implies she wants to be switched out, but then she'll lose her stacks.
Now thankfully she can take a punch no problem, but how do you use Giga flare anyway? Switch out regardless? SPD Buff? Monk? Aya?
I guess i could just wait it out, till she crawls her huge bottom all the way up to 10.000 atb.
Though, fighting spirit is gone even if shuffled on frontline.
Interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on May 26, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
Switching out and losing buffs isn't the end of the world (she's also not -that- durable until later Plus), but if you want to make use of Overheating too you might want to 'charge up' with a few normal attacks first and just wait out Giga Flare's delay, if you think she's reliably going to live that long.  Utsuho's Giga Flare is a pretty good example of a perfect Aya situation tho' for her turn-granting skill. And yeah, that's a good situation of where Monk's delay relaxing passive shines. Not that you can ever go wrong with it's passive buffs.

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 27, 2020, 12:31:11 AM
Actually, Thurler just found out the hit rate formula today, it's (ACC*100)/(EVA+100)%, with ACC being the user's Accuracy plus the spell's Accuracy modifier. So at base 100 ACC with no modifiers you'd have a 50% chance of hitting a target with 100 EVA.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on May 27, 2020, 01:23:46 AM
For Utsuho, the Aya method works really well, thanks to her supreme speed, you can easily give Utsuho another turn after she used a Giga Flare, but I found it hard to keep her alive long enough without resorting to stuff like Eirin overheal for Fighting Spirit and overheat to actually do something, Nitori can get away with this because Maintenance just gives her a massive boost but not Utsuho, unless you invest in her a lot, for that reason I choose to not use her when I got her, same with patchy

Aya in Labyrinth 2 became a very good support character, give her some survivavility, good mp pool, and maybe some MP regen and she will be ridiculous, and if you get so many turns that you don't know what to use them on, subbing Herbalist is always good, and with her speed, she even recovers a decent ammount of MP while in the background

For pure magical damage I usually favour Alice, hard to turn down on her versatility, 30% magic bonus with no downside other than having to use Marisa in the back, and the Hanged Hourai Dolls skill gets a massive damage boost with the enhanced row attack subclass skill, even bosses where the trick was in using defense piercing attacks, Alice had so much raw firepower that she pierced the enemy's defenses anyway
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on May 27, 2020, 04:59:47 AM
Actually, Thurler just found out the hit rate formula today, it's (ACC*100)/(EVA+100)%, with ACC being the user's Accuracy plus the spell's Accuracy modifier. So at base 100 ACC with no modifiers you'd have a 50% chance of hitting a target with 100 EVA.

To expand a bit on this, if a move has 10000 ACC or higher, the game treats the target's EVA stat as if it were 0, effectively giving the move 10000% chance to hit! :cirnotan:

Messing around a bit further with damage and evasion calculation also helped me isolate where in the code damage variance comes into the damage calculation, and properly patch it out so damage is consistent. This should help with testing out spell formulas or whether some things scale additively or multiplicatively, just in case there's still something we don't know. It also acts as a ground truth if you're planning out how much damage you'll do to a boss.

The game basically takes the exact damage value, multiplies it by (1000 + X), then divides it by 1000. X here is an integer from (what I assume to be) -100 to +100, giving the 10% variance we know should exist. What the patch below does is change the division to also be (1000 + X), effectively negating the damage variance. This might make Marisa's Sudden Impulse skill useless, depending on how the game calculates the bonuses from that, I haven't tested that out. To patch your game:
Obviously you should backup your exe in case something goes wrong. This changes the last 5 bytes in the sequence from a "push 1000" instruction to a "push ecx" instruction followed by 4 NOPs. This is what hijacks the fixed 1000 value from before with the same random number used for the multiplication. In the unlikely event we get another patch, I've kinda documented the procudure I used to find that hex sequence in the video linked below, so that the same steps can be used to determine the new offset (the sequence includes a "call" instruction, which is likely to change in a new patch/build). There's also one for the accuracy/evasion formula, if anyone is interested in how these were found in some detail.

Patching out damage variance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNufZRu2fSE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNufZRu2fSE)
Figuring out the ACC/EVA formula: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBXjbTsJLJE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBXjbTsJLJE)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: blazoli on May 28, 2020, 09:56:16 PM
Nice find Thurler, i've seen your segmented run, good stuff.

Does any1 know how to start new game+ with plus disk characters unlocked?
I swear i saw someone do that, but i can't find it anymore.
The only thing left is

Full Power Dragon God
 
because the enhanced stuff isn't for me lol, and IC is kinda lame.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Moon on May 30, 2020, 11:36:18 AM
Oh, here I was thinking the old Forum was just dead, but apprently it moved, huh...

Glad to see the translations finished, thanks for that.

And to chime in a bit on the hex edits: on the newest translated version, going to 0006F0E0 and changing
"C7 41 28 00 00 00 00" to "C7 41 28 64 00 00 00" disables spell animations.

Will be doing the "transition screen" between battles later as well I think, but that is going to break the music as well so I probably won't post it unless requested.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on May 30, 2020, 03:00:41 PM
As a precaution (I haven't tested it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was an issue), later versions of the first Labyrinth of Touhou had an option to disable spell animations, and it broke a few secondary effects, such as Flandre's self-damage/party-wide ATB loss and I think also Kaguya and Okuu's self-boosts. LoT2 is a different game but from what I've seen, it's still a mess code-wise.



In other news, LoT2 will be heading to Switch and PS4 this summer:

https://www.cubetype.com/works/tohoLaby/

https://n-e-studio.com/

https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1266703130000949248

This is an HD version from what I can gather. The "2" is being dropped from the title as the first game won't be heading to consoles. There should be a patch at some point for the PC version to get the enhancements, and it should be on Steam "eventually". It appears there's some type of delay getting it there ( https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1266284289605332993 ).

Some specific changes I was able to get out of google translate:
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on May 30, 2020, 03:04:32 PM
Stat/EXP doubling seems like it'd break the game balance? Unless it's a double boost that only applies into +Disk. Maingame balance is fine as it is it doesn't really need changing.

Anyway it's a real shame that we won't get an enhanced version of LoT1.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 30, 2020, 04:45:15 PM
It specifically says that it doubles the effect of the EXP increasing special items, not all special items.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on May 30, 2020, 05:33:16 PM
A quick looking at the specific phrasing, it's closer to being:

-1.5 times dungeon walk speed
-Double effectiveness of experience increasing special items
-Consecutive battle bonus increased

I did get a bit more confused by the Google Translate but yeah it's not just double XP.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 05:01:19 AM
You don't have many exp up items for most of maingame, so it's probably fine. Should cut down on the lategame plus grind which is cool. Increased walk speed very handy in general but especially for plumbing through all those dang IC floors. Maybe the eye-straining flashes will be nerfed for IC too finally? (if they were just removed, that'd also really speed up IC)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Moon on June 07, 2020, 01:29:39 AM
1. you can increase your monitors refresh rate to make the game run very very fast
2. you can use hialgoboost too but it sucks having to instlal some stupid tool
3. the buffed movement speed sounds nice in the steam version
4. the "less grind" sounds bad because I already found the game too non-grindy compared to Lot1 so I already had to cheat the game to be more grind-heavy especially with the removed animations and all bla
5. ugh I cannot for the life of me figure out how to increase the stupid movement speed, I wish ethan was still around to reverse engineer the heck out of this game
6. the verification questions are very hard, I havent touched actual original touhou games in several years
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gesh86 on June 10, 2020, 08:02:58 AM
So the remaster/port of Labyrinth of Touhou 2 will just be known as Labyrinth of Touhou. Meanwhile, LoT 3 is already in development...

I can already foresee where this is going: Labyrinth of Touhou 6 will be called so in Japan, but 3 in the west. Then 3peso unifies it again with LoT 7 and Youtubers will have to make videos explaining what happened to 4,5 and 6.  :cirnotan:
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Moon on June 19, 2020, 12:20:36 AM
that would be final fantasy all over again...
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Moon on June 20, 2020, 01:59:49 AM
---

edited because Im dumb, nevermind
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on July 10, 2020, 02:39:41 PM
The release date of the PS4/Switch version has been announced as July 16th: https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1281498215989170176
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on July 16, 2020, 12:51:28 AM
Now that the Switch edition is out, I can say the new HD art is a mixed bag, some notable differences in the portraits I immediatly noticed

Komachi has red eyes
Rumia has a smaller face, making her skull/hair look bigger than before
Remilia's smile was nerfed
Reimu's smile is now more awkward
Marisa has thicker eyebrows, better shaped eyes and a smaller smile
Mokou looks absolutely disgusted at something to the right
Satori found about a thing called makeup, and now looks directly at your soul... and is a bit less smug
Keine is now smiling
Reisen is smiling too, and her mouth is higher than before
Wriggle's eyes look more feminine
Hina is now looking at you instead of looking at her right
Eirin has her mouth open and a more relaxed look

Many of the changes involve opening the mouth for some reason o.O
And so far, only noticed changes in the face layer in the chars, if we don't count the obvious higher resolution of them

Oh and the Switch seems to be locked at 30 fps with slowdowns when you use certain spells (Nitori's damaging spells all cause fps problems, Kasen's Echo of the Nine Forest Gods too, and many more)

(https://i.imgur.com/n16vfMM.png)

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on July 16, 2020, 04:12:56 AM
100% not surprised at the lag issues XD I'm actually surprised I wasn't expecting it. Fujiyama Volcano must really be painful. The series has never been well optimized...
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on July 16, 2020, 05:39:58 AM
Just to address the fps/lag issue since I've had some time to mess around with the game for a bit now. Firstly, the Switch version is NOT locked to 30 fps, I got confused since the menus were clearly smooth but my capture card kept showing me a 30fps feed so I thought my eyes probably degraded a bit and moved on. After streaming/playing some more I realized my capture card can't handle 1080p60 and drops that to 30fps, which led to the confusion.

However, there is a LOT of framerate issues on the Switch release, that seem to be absent from the PS4 one. It's really about the same as you'd get on a lower end PC, some slowdown on specific spells, lots of it on others, and some noticeable drop in framerate as you fill the map more and more. If you idle after entering the dungeon for the first time, the game stays at 60fps stable, but then after I mapped out all of 1F it seemed to drop to 45-50. It's noticeable when comparing them, but really doesnt get in the way at all when playing. Obviously stuff like Nitori's Extending Arm tanking the fps to 15 as the spell "explodes" is a lot more intrusive.

Again, all of this seems absent on the PS4, making me believe they either prioritized that or didn't test Switch enough in docked mode. Or you know, maybe the PS4 just has a lot more power than the Switch. :meiling:
I'll play some more on portable mode tomorrow to see if it gets any better, but I doubt it.

As far as the Switch version goes, I feel like the game would run much, much better if they targeted 720p60 instead of 1080p60, given the history of poor optimizations going on in the original PC release. And then in portable mode drop some of the particle effects to reduce lag, or maybe even lower the target resolution a bit. Heck, I'd be fine with a stable 30fps, it's not like there's much going on anyway, and it'd be a decent compromise when playing on the go. Which to me is the biggest perk on the Switch release, anyway.

To sum it all up, I'd get the PS4 version if you have the option and don't plan on playing on the go, but tbh waiting for the PC version might be the cheapest and best option in the long run, what with the lower price and possibility of English / misc. patches.

Also I like the new Rumia, she looks cute!  :cirnotan:
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on July 16, 2020, 11:19:23 AM
From playing it a bit myself (because admittedly LoT2 with the ability to actually set it down mid-dungeon if need be is great the way it is for any given EO), so far the lag, while not great, doesn't really slow the game down but instead just does regular frameskipping, so thankfully nothing becomes extremely slow. Just very choppy.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on July 17, 2020, 03:43:56 AM
Played a bit more today while in handheld mode and was surprised to see less frame drops. The smaller stuff like moving through the dungeon feels less choppy, even on fully explored areas, and a few spells also seemed to stutter less. The big hits like Nitori's Super Scope still make very noticeable stutters, but they seemed a lot less intrusive on the smaller screen. All of this just makes me believe the game would run pretty much flawlessly when docked if it targetted 720p instead of 1080, since portable mode uses the lower resolution, but hey, enough complaining from me! :p

I was messing around with some team compositions and made a very minimalistic party for the Kraken fight on 5F, nothing fancy, just Kasen+Parsee for TRR stuff, Nitori to Super Scope and Momiji as a tank. As I tried optimizing the fight over and over I realized I was getting all 5 drops every time, which should be kinda rare since the odds for that are 4/81.

I checked on the PC version and with some other fights, apparently the game increases the drop rate for items if your average party level is well under the enemy's level. Poked around in Cheat Engine but couldn't find any formula or by how much it increases, but the empirical data suggests a high enough increase to guarantee the usual 33% or 25% boss drops. I went to B11F with only a Lv1500 Nitori and was consistently getting an item drop from the encounters with a single enemy, almost every time, despite the highest drop rate being 6% with a 60% ish bonus. Could be useful for farming Gems and Jewels, though tbh you're probably getting lots of them regardless if you're grinding for the true final boss.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on July 18, 2020, 11:08:40 PM
So it was mentioned that the specific QoL changes were to special items that increased XP as well as consecutive battle bonuses, and more specifically, I've tested that the battle bonus is now +3% to everything (from +2% to everything) per battle, still up to a cap of +100% to everything at 34 battles instead of 50 battles. The special items have gone from +1% to their respective bonuses to +2% (from 1.6% to 2% for the drop rate items), capping at 50% bonus at 25 instead of 25% at 25 (40% at 25 for drop rate). So generally speaking, it's a somewhat smaller bonus, but ultimately it does mean that XP/money gain is slightly higher on the whole and that battle chains pay out faster than before. I don't know about the second layer of special items yet since I'm still at 6F and that's not for a long time, but I'll keep an eye on that once I hit plus disk content.

EDIT: Speaking of, since playing Team 9 through this game has forever ruined my ability to stick to playing with a full team of 12, this time around my party is going to be a team of 8, with all five members of the SDM, Minoriko just as a healer on the side, and then MAlice Cannon shenanigans. It's preferable to me just because of how I play this game, and it gives me some additional variety.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on July 25, 2020, 11:33:50 AM
New post to say that patch version 1.106 for PC plus disk version has been put up by 3peso. Can't go pick that up at the moment but figured I'd let people know.

Edit: Here's a reupload since firestorage and axfc are silly as usual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vwSPM2NdWwi2aBJ7U24hoPjT7sJJJPnz/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vwSPM2NdWwi2aBJ7U24hoPjT7sJJJPnz/view?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on July 25, 2020, 12:35:17 PM
New post to say that patch version 1.106 for PC plus disk version has been put up by 3peso. Can't go pick that up at the moment but figured I'd let people know.

Edit: Here's a reupload since firestorage and axfc are silly as usual (1.106a):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1suKOpi2YoAG5Woo-OJPJLTT4M9uXFB7l/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1suKOpi2YoAG5Woo-OJPJLTT4M9uXFB7l/view?usp=sharing)

Looked through the patch notes, mostly bug fixes but a notable thing beyond the Switch/PS4 version QoL is the following line:

Quote
・地上最上階の聖ボスからの経験値量を従来の6倍に変更
    →地下最深部の雑魚と比べてかなり強いにも関わらず、取得経験値が最深部雑魚戦より低いというアンバランスな状態を是正しました

Looks like... I think this is saying that bosses on 30F give out 6 times their original XP, which means they are now proper grinding material instead of it just being B11F grinding forever?

Another Edit: ...And 1.106a has already been released and I have noticed probably why, monsters were suddenly not giving any money. Welp.

Okay yep another Edit sorry: I've changed the above link to point to the reuploaded 1.106a patch. Looks like the 0 money glitch has been fixed, the only other thing I've noticed is that the consecutive battle bonus does not seem to properly be +3% like it is in the Switch version, it's still +2%. Not sure how to tell 3peso that but, uh. Yeah.

Last edit for now: Alright I've done a stupid and just, replied to his tweet about 1.106a, I don't know if he'll respond or care or whatever, just hoping I was able to get the message across I guess. @.@;
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on July 25, 2020, 03:28:50 PM
Updated exe to the new patch.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1giGii10VbJJdcIWLQtTZwu3On6BPv8xZ/view?usp=sharing

There are a lot of missing strings in here, primarily in the items and achievements. I suspect a lot of these are scrubbing out direct references from the various copyrights. I can't read or type out Japanese so I'm not going to try and sort them out myself. I'll post an updated exe when those get sorted out.

Additionally, if you're interested in the new character portraits, I extracted those as well: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TjaX1g1EqNwurT4sngtRes696CKoFLxZ/view?usp=sharing
This includes the old ones for easy comparison. Anything not in the "New" folder is using the old image. This includes all _SS graphics, so Eirin's Voile portrait still uses her slight smile, while the full-screen version uses her new big goofy smile.

Also there are graphical artifacts on Aya_S.png and Ran_S.png, and yes they do show up in-game.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on July 26, 2020, 06:35:53 AM
Looks like... I think this is saying that bosses on 30F give out 6 times their original XP, which means they are now proper grinding material instead of it just being B11F grinding forever?

I did some quick math and if you beat all 56 bosses in one trip you get about 2.1 billion EXP, and each B11F encounter is around 9-12 million EXP, depending on monster count and species. The only concern here is how hard/fast it is to get Appraiser Shou to oneshot all 56 bosses with Radiant Treasure Gun, which is easy on B11F thanks to everything being weak to SPI. It's definitely an option though, you can farm some Metal Kedamas to grind the consecutive battle bonus to 250% (post pillar of light) then go destroy the bosses.

In fact, if there is a way to respawn the bosses without exiting the dungeon, you could farm those 2.1 billion several times in the same streak, making it even more efficient. I don't think there is a way, though...


The patch notes mentioned something about a treasure chest in 9F extra being changed as well, I went to check and the treasure chest that gave you a Tisiphone Edge now gives you a Grand Master Breaker Title. A very welcome change since GMBTs are very useful to fight against post-game pre-PD bosses. Many skills that had minor bugs have been fixed too, and Kokoro's masks now buff/debuff all stats by 12% instead of just ATK (previously other stats were only changed by 10%).



In some reverse engineering news, I've been replaying the game while making saves before every boss battle so I can go back and replay them whenever (also doubles as a way to test stuff for speedrun routing), and now that I've reached Plus Disk I figured I'd take a shot at reverse engineering PD bosses' AI. This is a very manual process so I can't exactly be bothered to do it for every enemy, so I plan to stick to bosses only. I've been using Cheat Engine to find where in the exe the AI for a specific enemy is, and then looking up that part on Ghidra so I can interpret the decompiled function that controls the AI. I've managed to extract the AI for Shadow Kasen, Suika and Yuugi so far: https://pastebin.com/3GpUKQNs

To speed this up I also dumped the internal spell IDs the game uses to identify attacks: https://pastebin.com/5gkMXvUR
Shoutouts to FabulaFares for finding out the starting ID for each spell category long ago when I was poking at enemy AI stuff.

I plan on dumping the AI as I progress through my PD (re)playthrough, though right now with all the patching I'll wait for a stable version before running the Ghidra decompiler again (the patch notes specifically mentioned changing a few boss' AI, so I figured I should use the latest 1.106 exe, have been using 1.105b). Hopefully more news on this soon. :p
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on July 26, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
In fact, if there is a way to respawn the bosses without exiting the dungeon, you could farm those 2.1 billion several times in the same streak, making it even more efficient. I don't think there is a way, though...

Just go down to 29F. I just tried that and it respawned the heaven bosses. It's not super quick, but it does maintain the streak.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on August 02, 2020, 04:36:42 PM
1.107 has been released, with things such as updated minimap that should more properly show what symbols mean what, showing if an attack will hit a weakness or resistance, and other bug fixes (I'm seeing mention of Unnamed Book Reading Youkai specifically, which uh, yep that skill has been bugged for awhile). Mirror is as always below for the patch:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WW_gJaBYAqoBmnRIvD4NmVAOHXvhtI3w/view?usp=sharing

EDIT: Oops apparently I had it somehow set to restricted by accident, sorry about that that's fixed now (thank you whoever requested access for drawing my attention to it).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on August 02, 2020, 05:20:30 PM
Updated exe and translation files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-l28Tb_hcKdxLdtPo3Y9sBQDtUkug_-R/view?usp=sharing

Nameless Bookworm Youkai's description was changed from 200 affinity to 160 affinity. There were no other text changes.
There's still a bunch of item descriptions that are missing due to the big scrub from 2.106


re: google drive

They changed their system so that when you generate a link, it no longer automatically sets it to viewable by anyone with the link. Super annoying.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on August 02, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Oh yeah, further things I'm noticing from the Switch version as I'm going along re: consecutive battle bonus. Looks like in the "main game" (1F-20F, even in the Extra areas) it's +3% per battle. In Plus Disk floors it looks to be +4%, and in the Infinity Corridor it's +5%. I haven't gotten to the point where the bonus is uncapped (I'm still in the 23F-24F stretch of getting the elemental circles), so I don't know if that will change it either. Also, the PC version still seems to be going at +2% per battle regardless of locale. I did mention it to 3peso but otherwise it seems it has not been fixed(?) in 1.107.

Edit: Weird follow-up to the above, I went and fought Diamond Knight on 30F of the corridor and it seems like it has a 3% consecutive battle bonus for beating it? I noticed because I was testing and seeing if I hit the 100% cap in 20 battles (I did), but fighting the Diamond Knight had the bonus count as if I had been fighting with the +3% bonus the whole time. I guess it scales based off whatever value is being assigned to particular fights, and bosses might just be +3%?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on August 04, 2020, 08:29:05 AM
Updated the pastebin with Plus Disk boss AI up to the B4F Futo fight: https://pastebin.com/3GpUKQNs

A couple interesting notes regarding what I found:

Youmu is supposed to use Slash Clearing the 6 Senses every 5 turns if Yuyuko is dead. She's also supposed to spam "Loyal? Gardener's Support" between Yuyuko's cast of Concentrate and Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, which buffs all of her stats by 33% each time it is cast. However, due to a bug, neither of those conditions are ever met, so she's stuck using her regular spells.

Yuyuko is supposed to have a different pattern for when Youmu is alive, but due to a bug, she always thinks Youmu is dead. The "Youmu is alive" pattern removes Storm of Dark Flow and Calming Scent from her AI, but adds Allure of Death and Slack Off (Lv.64). This last one is the key component here, it heals both Youmu and Yuyuko for around 410k HP, and has a 25% chance of being cast.

So basically, the intended dynamic here is: Youmu has very low max HP to compensate for Yuyuko's absurd heal every other turn, and Youmu is the main damage dealer while Yuyuko focuses on being annoying with DTH and ATB delays via Ghostly Dream's Butterfly. When Yuyuko concentrates, Youmu's PAR and SHK resistances drop from 80 to 50, going back to 80 whenever she gets a turn. If Youmu gets one (or more!) turns before Yuyuko fires Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, she buffs all of her stats by 33%, getting ready to kill whatever survived the SFN.

When Youmu does die, Yuyuko switches to offensive mode, dropping her heal for a zero delay buff and increasing some spells' levels. If you kill Yuyuko first, Youmu will now use Slash Clearing the 6 Senses every 5 turns, making her just a bit more dangerous. I'll include a technical explanation of these bugs in a spoiler since you might not care about the ASM details, and this post is already quite long. :p

The game keeps track of each party and enemy character through an array of pointers located somewhere in memory. This array has 17 positions, numbered 0 through 16, 0-11 being your 12 characters, and 12-16 being the enemy slots, starting from the front row's left slot. If an enemy AI wants to check if another enemy is still alive, there are 2 main ways to accomplish this: count how many enemy slots are occupied, or check if a particular slot is occupied. Shadow Keine and Shadow Mokou use the first method, if there are 2 or more enemies on the field, they know their partner is alive. Youmu and Yuyuko however check a specific slot. Obviously they need to check the right slot to have it work.

If you have a look at the disassembled code for Youmu checking if Yuyuko is dead:
Code: [Select]
MOV        EAX,dword ptr [EBP + local_c]
MOV        ECX,dword ptr [EAX + 0x10]
MOV        EDX,0x4
IMUL       EAX,EDX,0xf
CMP        dword ptr [ECX + EAX*0x1 + 0x24],0x0

You can see EAX is being loaded with some value, which is then used to load ECX with some other value. Using Cheat Engine while running the game, you can breakpoint those instructions to see which address was loaded into ECX, and it turns out to be an address very close to the character array mentioned. A value of 4 is then loaded into EDX, and EAX becomes the result of EDX times the constant 15. The game then takes ECX, offsets it by the multiplication's result, and adds some constant value to access - you guessed it - slot 15 in the character array. Compare the value in there to 0 to see if it is initialized - empty slots have empty pointers (all zeros), and you have successfully checked if a slot is loaded.

If you know anything about low level programming, you can think of the ASM code above as the C-like code below. Note that since this game uses 32bit addressing, pointers will be 4 bytes long, which ties in with the offset the ASM code uses:
Code: [Select]
struct CHARACTER_INFO;
struct CHARACTER_INFO * charArray[12+5]; // 12 ally characters and 5 enemies
int offset = 15; // Access enemy slot 4
struct CHARACTER_INFO *enemy = charArray[offset];
bool enemyExists = (enemy != NULL);
if (enemyExists) {} // do stuff

Note that array[offset] is the same as *(array+(offset*sizeof(struct CHARACTER_INFO *))), and since pointers will be 4 bytes long, we can simplify that to *(array+(offset*4)), which is exactly what the ASM told us with its own weird syntax. :p

The fix to all this is to replace every instance of IMUL EAX,EDX,0xf in Youmu's AI with IMUL EAX,EDX,0x10, which would properly point to Yuyuko's slot. Similarly, Yuyuko's AI has IMUL EAX,EDX,0xd, checking the empty second slot, so replacing it with IMUL EAX,EDX,0xf would fix it, since it would point to Youmu's slot. Pretty easy fix to do in a hex editor, but idk if anyone cares enough to fix this fight lol.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on August 04, 2020, 03:08:52 PM
  • Shadow Youmu's and Shadow Yuyuko's fight is completely broken

i remember nuking youmu in 3 turns and then just killing yuyuko, thinking i cheesed the fight or something but guess not

these examples of lack of beta-testing make the game seem a bit unpolished imo (e.g. the 19f magatama's heal didn't work until 1.105a iirc). i wonder if any of this is fixed in the console releases
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on August 09, 2020, 06:23:02 PM
So I was curious and did some extremely rudimentary testing regarding levels of bosses and enemies in the Infinity Corridor. Obviously without hacking and such this is probably not as accurate, and I do not know if the scaling remains the same past the first loop, but I have determined at least that bosses definitely scale right now at 34.5 levels per each new boss (this is of course in the version where said scaling leads to Serpent of Chaos being level 575 rather than 600). Enemy scaling I'm a bit more uncertain of, just from messing around on 111F and observing enemy levels, it looks like there is a baseline average level that all encounters are based around, with a level variation of about ~14% (of course I don't know if this changes as the floors increase, and I do know that the scaling gets more intense as you clear floors consecutively, JP wiki says 0.5% per each consecutive floor but I dunno if that's still true). Very, *very* loosely I am currently guessing that the scaling for baseline enemy level is 200+3*currentFloor, but I don't know for certain. The average for 111F is at least 533, which would fit that, and going backwards 1F having an average value of 203 makes sense roughly for how levels are at the start of it, but past that I don't know without actually looking at whatever formulas are used in-game to determine those values.

Meanwhile since I've gotten this far, I guess I've decided on a new team of four of Sealing Club + Mystia and Suika, which uh, it works. It's worked so far, ***WINNER*** has been defeated once and I'm well on my way to being able to beat him a second time.

EDIT: Notably, the bestiary values for levels for corridor bosses match the proper scaling for them. I've determined now that boss level is floor(230+(currentFloor*3.45)), which gives a value of level 612 at 111F (which matches the bestiary).

Further Edit: I actually think I've solved the enemy and boss formula entirely. I noticed that 230 and 3.45 are 15% more than 200 and 3 respectively, and then thought about how Serpent of Chaos was scaled to 600 in older versions. I think the formula ultimately is floor(200+(currentFloor*3)), then for normal enemies an extra 0.5% per consecutive floor cleared on top of that (if the JP wiki is correct), or for bosses just a flat +15%. The older boss scaling must have been +20% (it matches and gives 600 for 100F).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on August 10, 2020, 09:20:01 PM
The patch massively reduced the FPS on the glowing circle spinning animations for a lot of the menus even on the PC version, which is kind of disconcerting because it's -very- stuttery, but the increased walk speed is glorious. The slightly tweaked portraits are kind of weird after being so used to the normal ones. Everyone is strangely happy and Rumia's face shrunk...

And Komachi's counter being super weak after Plus Disk release (for player-side Komachi) was fixed, good for her. It sounds like Reimu's Fantasy Seal -Blink- was finally fixed?

Infinite Corridor is a lot nicer with the boosted movement speed. It's too bad those slow, bright flashes are still tied to every corridor event, but ah well. If those had been removed you'd really be able to zoom through.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Shikieiki1990 on August 11, 2020, 12:47:06 AM
Hey guys, the english patch 1.107 when I load it, all the character sprites are not shown. Is it just me or something is missing?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on August 11, 2020, 09:00:55 AM
You need to first apply the official Japanese 1.107 patch. This includes the updated portraits. Then get the English patch.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Shikieiki1990 on August 11, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
Wow, cant believe I am so dumb. Thanks so much, the new character sprites look really nice
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Validon98 on August 11, 2020, 07:45:47 PM
I just got to the Heaven bosses on 30F and they do in fact have six times the XP/money listed for them on the wiki now, at least on the Switch version.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on August 12, 2020, 12:36:10 AM
The patch massively reduced the FPS on the glowing circle spinning animations for a lot of the menus even on the PC version, which is kind of disconcerting because it's -very- stuttery, but the increased walk speed is glorious.

This has been an issue since 1.105 (maybe earlier? I dont have a way to test older versions), I'm not exactly sure when the game begins to stutter those animations, and it's not consistent for me at all. The only pattern I've found back when I noticed it was that only save files with huge numbers (level 2000+) were affected, if you start a new game those animations play properly. And sometimes I get no animation issues at all, it's very weird. Fwiw I haven't noticed that issue in 1.107 yet.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on August 16, 2020, 05:06:24 PM
Is there a patch for LOT1 on Windows 10 or do I need to use a virtual machine?

Also, can someone tell me the exact dimensions of the LOT2 portaits for chara graphs?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on August 16, 2020, 05:37:23 PM
Laby 1 works in windows 10, but the game refuses to open 90% of the time, at least for me
Try launching the game many times, so the confirmation screen pops up multiple times, then mash the OK button until one of those launches the game
If you check Task Manager, you will probably see many th_labyrinth.exe's in there, using less than a megabyte of ram, and no cpu or disk whatsoever, its a weird bug but with enough tries, the game launches anyway

Edit: Anyone knows if the IC chests are fixed between each rarity tier, and if opened correctly or by force? I was thinking about making a spreadsheet of the drops to make the wiki a bit more complete, also working on the remaining bossfight's articles
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Shikieiki1990 on August 17, 2020, 10:34:51 PM
 Has anyone ever had a problem that their X key is not working in LoT2? It was working until yesterday and today it's not working anymore to cancel in game. I can type the X button so the key is not broken so probably the key mapping has gone wrong. Anybody can help me please?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on August 21, 2020, 07:35:54 AM
Updated the pastebin yet again with Plus Disk boss AI up to the 26F Yamata no Orochi fight: https://pastebin.com/3GpUKQNs

No broken fights this time, but a few interesting things to note:
I expect progress on this to slow down a bit since I'll need to advance in IC and grind for the top floors to get to the final stuff, and that is going to take some time. When I get to the IC bosses I'll extract the stats as well with CE so we can finally fill in the boss data for IC enemies in the bestiary. Can't wait to spend 4 hours reading Winner's decompiled AI script!
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Xarizzar on August 23, 2020, 02:17:46 AM
This has been an issue since 1.105 (maybe earlier? I dont have a way to test older versions), I'm not exactly sure when the game begins to stutter those animations, and it's not consistent for me at all. The only pattern I've found back when I noticed it was that only save files with huge numbers (level 2000+) were affected, if you start a new game those animations play properly. And sometimes I get no animation issues at all, it's very weird. Fwiw I haven't noticed that issue in 1.107 yet.
I've been having it since Plus Disk, IIRC. I even asked on the old forums when they were a thing and nobody knew anything.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Phen on August 26, 2020, 10:27:38 PM
Updated the pastebin yet again with Plus Disk boss AI up to the 26F Yamata no Orochi fight: https://pastebin.com/3GpUKQNs

No broken fights this time, but a few interesting things to note:
  • Shadow Nitori and Shadow Momiji have fixed patterns
  • Shadow Yuuka has a very interesting cooldown system, where she alternates between weaker and stronger spells, and how many turns pass between casts of stronger spells depends on which strong spell was used
  • Shadow Maribel permanently reduces her DEF and MND every time she uses Liberated Abilities
  • Shadow Komachi and Shadow Eiki have a very funny gimmick where Komachi will spam slack off, and each turn Eiki has a 25% chance to scold her, which forces Komachi to attack normally. However she has a 25% chance to pretend to attack, and after doing that twice she'll go back to slacking off
  • Toyosatomimi no Miko has a bug in her phase shifts that fails to update her DRK affinity throughout the fight, leaving with her with a permanent 50 affinity when it should go 50 -> 1000 -> 150
  • Yamata no Orochi has a fixed pattern for all 4 phases
I expect progress on this to slow down a bit since I'll need to advance in IC and grind for the top floors to get to the final stuff, and that is going to take some time. When I get to the IC bosses I'll extract the stats as well with CE so we can finally fill in the boss data for IC enemies in the bestiary. Can't wait to spend 4 hours reading Winner's decompiled AI script!
Excellent work here. Are you planning to show this to the developer in hopes of bug fixes or anything?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on August 27, 2020, 06:07:11 AM
Are you planning to show this to the developer in hopes of bug fixes or anything?

I don't personally plan on doing that, but I could help prepare a more well-written text to send to 3peso after someone helps translate it, explaining how this was found and how we think these could be fixed. That is if they are bugs in the first place, some could just be very hacky ways to nerf or change a fight. Wouldn't want to come off as suggesting the game is buggy when it isn't, though it likely is lol.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on August 28, 2020, 05:36:05 PM
Does anyone know how to compress a folder into a dxa file? I want to replace some of the enemy sprites
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on August 30, 2020, 02:19:39 PM
Does anyone know how to compress a folder into a dxa file? I want to replace some of the enemy sprites

https://github.com/yumetodo/DxLib

sadly this has no english documentation, but you may find it useful. (i think that the function you're looking for specifically is DxArchive_)
if you do end up figuring it out, i believe that the encryption key for labyrinth of touhou 2 is AD14C4698CEBB077923E32A5
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on August 30, 2020, 07:04:11 PM
Alright so, I tried this and when I go to encrypt, it only encrypts about 48 mb of the 58 or so that would be there normally. Then the exe won't start. I believe this has to do with the password but I'm not quite sure how to enter it
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on September 03, 2020, 07:06:44 AM
I did some messing around in the game's exe and managed to add an extra skill on Aya's page, as well as a 5th spell for her to use. I tried giving her an enemy spell but the game just crashed, probably because there is no level and description associated with that spell ID. Note these were done as a direct patch on the exe, so there's no need to get Cheat Engine involved to give her more stuff. This could be replicated for every character, so that everyone has 10 skills and 5 spells (including those unlocked by Awakenings), even changing which are locked behing the Awakening feature.

[attachment=1]

The reasoning for wasting time with this is simple: I hope that one day in the future I might sit down and actually write a script to randomize a lot of things in this game, like spell elements, ailments, formulas, who gets which skill and spell, even some enemy AI. It's still a distant dream atm as I gather knowledge and motivation to plan it out and pull it off, but for now fooling around will do.

If anyone wants a more technical explanation of how this was achieved: https://pastebin.com/CQqMdwaE
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on September 07, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
Alright so, I tried this and when I go to encrypt, it only encrypts about 48 mb of the 58 or so that would be there normally. Then the exe won't start. I believe this has to do with the password but I'm not quite sure how to enter it

I figured it out. Turns out, I can just keep the dxa's decrypted then mod away. The only other step is to set system locale to japanese
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on September 12, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
Say, is the gambler's mp cost spell broken? I have it on Kaguya and her spell costs are the same
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on September 12, 2020, 09:38:11 PM
Say, is the gambler's mp cost spell broken? I have it on Kaguya and her spell costs are the same
I just tried it and it works as intended (the MP costs are doubled in-battle, the description outside of battle will still have the original cost).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: BlackLiquidSorrow on September 12, 2020, 10:45:52 PM
I just tried it and it works as intended (the MP costs are doubled in-battle, the description outside of battle will still have the original cost).

Yeah, I just realized that lol. I thought those were her default costs.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 04, 2020, 11:42:09 PM
Does this game have a first-person viewmode for the exploration? Isometric dungeon crawling seems somehow wrong.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on October 05, 2020, 12:51:18 AM
No, only angled bird eye view.
For me first person dungeon crawlers feel unplayable >~>
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 05, 2020, 07:12:05 PM
The game's supposed to be based on Etrian Odyssey though, isn't it?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Xarizzar on October 05, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
Doesn't mean it should do everything exactly as EO does. Personally, I like the 2D more than the 3D myself, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on October 05, 2020, 07:39:01 PM
Yes, based on EO and Wizardry, and takes a lot of elements from the "Angband" saga of games
(***WINNER*** and the Chaos Serpent come from there)
yet, not because of that it should also copy the first person view from EO.

From what I recall, the Angband related games were on bird's eye view right? I never played them, and doubt I ever will because I really don't enjoy games with CLI graphics

Also a little thing I found out while messing around with Laby 1 that maybe has already been discussed in the previous threads, your position is stored as a static value on the process, and is easily accessible so with Cheatengine you could edit the X and Y position, and even add a hotkey to increase the value so Reimu can go thru walls, Seiga style.
The memory adresses are 0019155C for the X axis, and 00191560 for the Y axis, but this one is inverted (positive values send you down instead).
Just be careful to not go outside the map limits or the map can start showing glitches, and Reimu's sprite will become invisible, nothing too destructive but certainly annoying
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on October 05, 2020, 10:55:49 PM
Borrowing enemies from another series doesn't mean anything, as the game is filled to the brim with references to all sorts of things. The game is clearly inspired by EO in some ways but massively different in others.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 06, 2020, 04:59:02 PM
Oh, this game has Angband references? Ohohoho! This sounds right up my alley after all.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: nav on October 06, 2020, 07:32:00 PM
Are there any actual Wizardry references? Always figured the inspiration is only indirect.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 09, 2020, 01:55:22 AM
Having difficulty getting the text to display right in Wine. I downloaded that meiryo font and put it in c:\windows\fonts, but it's still using a font that's too wide for the text box. Did I miss a step?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Xarizzar on October 09, 2020, 06:06:02 AM
No. Some text will just overflow, still. Although when I tried it in Wine, the font did look a bit weirder than Windows, but it was still playable, I guess.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on October 09, 2020, 08:29:43 AM
Having difficulty getting the text to display right in Wine. I downloaded that meiryo font and put it in c:\windows\fonts, but it's still using a font that's too wide for the text box. Did I miss a step?

have you tried putting it in the "~/.fonts" folder and then running fc-cache? i think wine reads from there too
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 09, 2020, 05:29:48 PM
No. Some text will just overflow, still. Although when I tried it in Wine, the font did look a bit weirder than Windows, but it was still playable, I guess.
The issue is that I cannot get the font to change. It is still the same small-enough-to-be-hard-to-read-but-wide-enough-to-overflow monospace typeface.
have you tried putting it in the "~/.fonts" folder and then running fc-cache? i think wine reads from there too
Yes. I've also tried putting it in the system-wide font directories. But again, no change.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on October 09, 2020, 06:23:13 PM
Are you talking about Labyrinth 1 or 2? Because 2 should have a readable font by default

1 also has a better font than default, but only worked for me when I launched the exe in japanese locale using locale emulator, no idea if wine has an option for this
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 12, 2020, 02:02:12 AM
Labyrinth 2. By default it had rectangles. After installing some fonts, it had this too-wide-but-still-too-small monospace type.

[attachment=1]
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: nav on October 12, 2020, 08:28:58 AM
For whatever it's worth, I had a very similar problems with LoT 2 at first. Running it normally would present a font that appears to match the one in your screenshot; it actually cuts off both horizontally and vertically. Running it with Japanese locale (I'm using a separate piece of software here, for reasons I can't remember anymore) produces a font that still sometimes cuts off half a letter on the right, but is otherwise perfectly functional and readable. I'm a "proud" Windows user though, so no idea if this is feasible in Wine.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 13, 2020, 04:12:27 AM
Aaaand that would be it. A locale issue. It turns out that HerbalNekoTea's shift-JIS locale files (which I mentioned in my own thread about running Seihou in wine) were the missing link in this case.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Xarizzar on October 13, 2020, 04:54:33 AM
Might you be able to link us to that thread? I can't find it on search and I'm interested in playing this game under Linux too
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 13, 2020, 05:21:18 AM
Here's (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=192.0) the thread, and here's (http://brokendragontranslation.com/shift_jis_linux.html) the relevant link from that thread. That page explains matters. Apparently it's a huge breakthrough for playing visual novels on Linux, too.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 13, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
Another question. Is there a way to make the game display bigger? If I try to maximize the window, the display stays the same size in the corner and the rest of the window is all black.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: nav on October 13, 2020, 08:27:43 PM
Resizing by dragging the edge of the window works fine for me...
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on October 13, 2020, 08:56:48 PM
Labyrinth 1 can't be resized by normal means but has a very buggy fullscreen mode, 2 can be scaled drawing the edges of the window but that will butcher the pixel fidelity, so i dont like using it.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 13, 2020, 10:36:26 PM
not for me lol
[attachment=1]
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: nav on October 13, 2020, 11:36:12 PM
On Windows you can sort of force a fullscreen mode using third party software (https://github.com/Codeusa/Borderless-Gaming/releases), but again, no idea if this can be done with Wine.

Then again your screenshot looks perfect, why attempt to improve perfection?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: VIVIT on October 14, 2020, 01:13:28 AM
Because that resolution is tiny on my monitor.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: nav on October 14, 2020, 02:05:40 AM
Because that resolution is tiny on my monitor.
I know, I was just kidding about the second screenshot! It's broken but beautiful.

 Is the program I linked a viable option?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on October 14, 2020, 02:48:13 AM
Easiest solution I can think off is changing resolution of the screen to something smaller, so the small screen will fill more, but it will look awful.

Either that or using a windows system and try it there, the windows resize drag works perfectly on windows but the pixels will be a bit blurry, and that annoys me a bit, dual boot should be an option if you know how to set it up
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on February 13, 2021, 06:08:10 AM
Finally got around to making an account! Huge fan of this game, glad to see that the fanbase is still alive after so many years. Bit of background; I got into this game after a good friend of mine introduced me to it last August. I have roughly ~255 or so hours in the game between my PC and Switch profiles and am currently at B4F of Plus Disk.

One thing I'd look forward to is a small update of the English translation - another user mentioned a while back that the new update altered some descriptions, changed some references, etc and that broke some of the formerly translated text. This is especially noticeable in the Special Items, Achievements, Main Equipment, and Basement Floor texts IIRC.

Happy to be here! Very eager for the eventual releases of LoT2 on Steam and - by extension - LoT3.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on February 15, 2021, 08:29:35 AM
Hey folks, first post since the revival. I haven't been around for.. uhh. like 6 years I think. I wasn't banned or anything, I just kinda stopped playing various Touhou games, and didn't enjoy the sudden insertion of politics into various things. I din't look too deep into the new site, and I hope it's better in that regard, but if it isn't, that's fine, I  have no intention of doing much other than camping this thread for now.

In any case, I love Labyrinth of Touhou, it basically taught me to love the entire dungeon crawler genre, and I got an itch to play it again for the first time in a long while. I have the physical disc for special disc thanks to... I forgot his name.. the guy who was Letty's IRL friend who bought stuff from comiket and would ship it to fans here, thanks again man! Forza? Formosa? something F-ish I think. sorry, terrible with names.

anyway, I was getting the english patch and I saw 3.01, and I don't remember a big 3.0 patch, an I going nuts? Anyone have an idea of where I can find patch notes? I googled it, and I can find the translation patch, and ThLaby 2 info, but I can't for the life of me find the changes going from 2.whatever.. I think 2.14 was the last time I played, and 3.0.

Reading this thread is the first time I heard of thlaby 3. hype. I kinda prefer 1 over 2, but still enjoy 2, and never hard of it going to steam either until now. also hype. I think I'll have to re-buy the game just to support it as hard as I want to, and no, I'm not a money bags. I'm still using the same pc as I did since I was on the forum previously! I'm so broke qq =P.

Part of the reason why I quit Touhou is because I got a bigger monitor now (for years), and I j ust never was able to figure out how to play in windowed mode anymore without it trying to stretch to my screen, and well, with it being so big, I just can't accuratelyl read all the trajectories like I used to. It's very disheartening going from 1cc hard  with no effort, and 1cc lunatic with a month of practice or so, to... 1cc normal sometimes maybe.. *sobs*.

Anyway, thank you everyone involved for reviving the site. I didn't even know it was dead, but I would have been crushed to know it was so at any point. I left it because of reasons, but I still cared about it, and I'm happy to know that other people do too!

so if anyone has a link to the patch changes (particularly 3.0+, but would appreciate everything prior too since I don't know where exactly I left off), I would appreciate it

edit: I found my old ThLaby1 folder, and it's 3.01. disregard, thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on February 15, 2021, 01:32:05 PM
Finally got around to making an account! Huge fan of this game, glad to see that the fanbase is still alive after so many years. Bit of background; I got into this game after a good friend of mine introduced me to it last August. I have roughly ~255 or so hours in the game between my PC and Switch profiles and am currently at B4F of Plus Disk.

One thing I'd look forward to is a small update of the English translation - another user mentioned a while back that the new update altered some descriptions, changed some references, etc and that broke some of the formerly translated text. This is especially noticeable in the Special Items, Achievements, Main Equipment, and Basement Floor texts IIRC.

Happy to be here! Very eager for the eventual releases of LoT2 on Steam and - by extension - LoT3.

The latest patch did change a bunch of item descriptions, but I thought those were all fixed. Are you using the latest patch? I think this is the latest. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-l28Tb_hcKdxLdtPo3Y9sBQDtUkug_-R/view?usp=sharing

I do have some more unreleased changes but I thought they were all minor typo fixes and not anything major.

In any case, I love Labyrinth of Touhou, it basically taught me to love the entire dungeon crawler genre, and I got an itch to play it again for the first time in a long while. I have the physical disc for special disc thanks to... I forgot his name.. the guy who was Letty's IRL friend who bought stuff from comiket and would ship it to fans here, thanks again man! Forza? Formosa? something F-ish I think. sorry, terrible with names.

anyway, I was getting the english patch and I saw 3.01, and I don't remember a big 3.0 patch, an I going nuts? Anyone have an idea of where I can find patch notes? I googled it, and I can find the translation patch, and ThLaby 2 info, but I can't for the life of me find the changes going from 2.whatever.. I think 2.14 was the last time I played, and 3.0.

NForza.

I think you mostly figured it out but LoT1 has 3 versions: the original release that only goes up to 20F (1.x), the PLUS-DISK that adds up to 30F as an expansion (2.x) and Special Disk, which is the base game and expansion combined into a single package, plus new music and some other changes I can't recall anymore. This is 3.x, and the latest patch was 3.01. The most up-to-date English patch uses 3.01 as the base.

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on February 16, 2021, 06:52:52 AM
The latest patch did change a bunch of item descriptions, but I thought those were all fixed. Are you using the latest patch? I think this is the latest. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-l28Tb_hcKdxLdtPo3Y9sBQDtUkug_-R/view?usp=sharing

I do have some more unreleased changes but I thought they were all minor typo fixes and not anything major.

If my attachment is anything to go by, I'm almost certain my translation files are completely updated. August 2nd, right? And I started playing the game just after this, roughly the 10th-15th or so of that month. Most of the translation is perfectly fine, but I have encountered a number of text that is still in Japanese - for whatever reason. For example, there's a convo on 22F where one of the character lines is untranslated. Stuff like Items Discovery Weekly/Money-Growing Tree/Mr. Midnight Oil and that Main Equip that raises TP by 7 are also examples of this.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]

Do you get any of these issues? If so, then that is mostly what I'm referring to. If not, then perhaps something is outdated on my end? Honestly not entirely sure.

Ninja Edit - Just in case you're curious, I do open the game via the Out.exe as well. Also, I don't notice anything particularly wrong in the translation's .txt files - only thing that comes to mind is that the Items Discovery/Money-Growing/Mr. Midnight special items don't appear to have descriptions associated with them?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on February 16, 2021, 01:16:14 PM
Do you get any of these issues? If so, then that is mostly what I'm referring to. If not, then perhaps something is outdated on my end? Honestly not entirely sure.

Ninja Edit - Just in case you're curious, I do open the game via the Out.exe as well. Also, I don't notice anything particularly wrong in the translation's .txt files - only thing that comes to mind is that the Items Discovery/Money-Growing/Mr. Midnight special items don't appear to have descriptions associated with them?

Whoops. No, those are busted. The latest patch increased how effective those items are, and that changed the description. This messes up the patching, since it looks for exact matches. I'll get this fixed in the files, but in all honesty it's minor enough that I'm not going to release a new patch for this.

If you're wondering, the txt files are used to create the out.exe translation, but don't do anything after that. They're included in the zip for translators to use.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on February 16, 2021, 05:49:08 PM
Ahh, nice to see an old translation patch face is still kicking and active. Is Deranged still around too? Also after seeing LoT3 mentioned I just took for granted there were some peeps a bout it, but looking at 3peso's site, I saw nothing. Is that just wishful thinking or were there tweets or something regarding it? While I was on the site, I saw screenshots of LoT2's skill menu, or talent menu, or whatever the terminology is, it's been so long I forgot. But it now has a tree thing going on. I got the impression those screenshots were from the console version of the game. Is the console version different or does our old melonbooks download version feature this too now?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: qazmlpok on February 16, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Deranged hasn't been around, but he's also popped back up after a few years of absence before, so it could happen again.

LoT3 is confirmed, in the sense of "it'll happen eventually". These games tend to have extremely long development periods. He's posted screenshots on twitter, including a new skill tree system and new character portraits (same artist as lot2). I'm assuming that's what you saw; I don't have the console version but I don't think it's significantly different from the PC version.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on February 18, 2021, 01:27:09 AM
Shout-out to Thurler for sharing this awesome update with me at light-speed; we finally have visual confirmation on LoT3's map design!

It seems like they're really trying to create vivid, actual environments this time as opposed to simulating them. Furthermore, we have 720p and a proper 16:9 HD full screen. Absolutely beautiful!

Edit: Link to the Tweet in case anyone can't see the image file due to not being logged in: https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1361960979093876739
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on February 20, 2021, 02:28:41 AM
Looking nice is good, but I hope it has improved functionality as well. That's one thing about LoT1 I liked more than 2 was that the 'stick-wall' system allows for more intricate maze designs. Often each floor or group of floors before the boss would have a king of navigational gimmick which made exploring each new area feel fresh, but 2 was mostly boxy rooms and hallways that didn't really mislead you at all.

The screen shot looks like they have levels of elevation. I suppose you can climb up only slight inclines, so that may be what I'm hoping for.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on February 21, 2021, 08:14:34 PM
I think what worked better with the 1st Labyrinth of Touhou was that it felt more of a struggle to clear each floor. Either by having tough new enemies or giant switch puzzles. (not a fan of the teleporter puzzles tho)
I felt LOT2 got better in that regards with the plus disk. Especially the underground floors, which had slippery floors, darkness and and block puzzles. It also made the floor design match with the current stratum. Like the holy floors had a symmetrical symbol like design, while the dark ones were full of small winding passages.

I ended up really liking the infinite corridor in Labyrinth of Touhou 2. It is something that I can play while tired. Possible while watching some stream on the other screen. As a result I got to floor 740 of the infinite corridor. There are so many combinations of allies and enemies that I never seem to get bored of it.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on February 21, 2021, 10:28:22 PM
While 2's Plus Disk floors had interesting and nice gimmicks, the floor size was wayyyyyy overblown by the time you reached the last half of the top and basement floors. Traversal became so tedious just to get from one end to the other and to explore everything in between. Imo a combination of some of 2's gimmicks and 1's better gimmicks (please no repeat of 13F) but with a floor size limit of, say 1's 27F, would be the ideal combination.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: ZephyrNightwind on March 01, 2021, 02:18:28 AM
Is there anything left to talk about? I mean no offense in asking...
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on March 02, 2021, 05:13:44 AM
Well it was my intent to start playing again but for some reason my lot game wont launch anymore even though it did a couple times recently. I kinda am taking it as a queue to play 2 instead since I never did finish 2's + disk content. I was looking forward to it but when it came out, I got distracted by some other game's big release and kinda forgot about it. I think it was probably a trails of cold steel game, or maybe sky 3rd. I forget.

Does anyone know why my client may not be launching anymore? I'm using windows 10 now (tried compatibility mode). I see the game's icon on my task bar for like 3 seconds, then it vanishes.

Also, for 2. One of my gripes with that game is that I felt that alot of the mid to late game bosses had sky high defenses and it really felt like you had to rely on super mega nukes like Nitori's 3D cannon and such to really make a dent unless you were over level or something. How does + disk compare with this? I don't really like having more than 2 glass cannon piercing nuke characters, and I don't even really like having 2 even, but I don't want to curse my life if I commit to to having too few.

Also, does lot2 have a every character unlocked at floor 1 and they are level 1 save file like we made with 1? Or is that a basic game feature? I don't remember having access to it from before. I kinda wanna start from the start again but don't want to have to re-unlock all the cast.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 02, 2021, 07:28:58 AM
Dunno about the other stuff but Plus Disk bosses as a whole have much lower defenses than the main game's bosses. They're also much more offensively threatening in exchange. There are still a handful of bosses with high/nearly impenetrable defenses, but that's always part of the fight's gimmick instead of just having super high defenses just because.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on March 02, 2021, 07:45:58 AM
I'm afraid I can't help with technical issues. All I can say that it has been stable on windows 10 for me.

Should you decide to start over, characters with good armor piercing: Utsuho, Kaguya, Iku, Eiki. Some others like Yuugi are good as well.
It seems that it is a basic feature to start with a full cast of pre-plus characters (probably after beating the game? not sure what enables it). Apparently some character bosses will be considered already defeated if you do that.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on March 02, 2021, 09:23:01 AM
LoT1 has a lot of launch issues on Win10, it happens to me too but I usually find it just opens up in the background and can be found on task manager as a process that you can't play, can delete excess ones and just keep relaunching until it properly opens. Unfortunately do not know of a way to force it to work every time but thankfully it's not toooooo long winded to get it to run.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on March 03, 2021, 06:52:49 AM
From personal experience, the plus disk bosses have less ridiculous defenses, but still you will do much more damage with the usual characters than before were the only ones that could do any damage instead of 0's (Nitori, Flan, Kaguya, etc)

And in the later parts it ends up having the same problems as the endgame in the first game, huge grindwalls when you go nearing the superbosses, unless you have a very specific setup, you will need to grind for a good while

The entirety of the game took me around 200 hours, with a good chunk being me in the infinite corridor, that place is silly, dull and boring, you just want it to end as soon as possible, not even the items from the shop since I got those from random 5 star chests.

I really hope 3 has no special dungeon like this, or if it has one, make it smaller to go trough, because 640 floors was too much...
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on March 04, 2021, 03:57:08 AM
great, thanks for the info. Just saw Remi got a buff too. I like her playstyle in 1 alot, and wanted to in 2. But found that the high defense bosses made her steady/reliable dps/subtank job almost useless since she would just sit there and do 0s for many of them, plus Kasen is in 2, and she just seemed to have a bit too much of the same job as Remi only better in every way except dark resistant enemies or something.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on March 04, 2021, 05:14:21 AM
Yeah, overall the main disk is like that, if you try attacking with someone not built to deal damage, they will deal pitiful amounts of damage or most probably a 0, while in Laby 1 everyone did at least some damage with almost any attack. I personally don't mind this change too much, makes the main game quite challenging at times, specially if you beat all bosses at the intended challenge level.

And Kasen indeed feels much stronger than everyone in the early game, like the game throws you a bone if you die too much and gives you a really strong character that can breeze through most early stuff.

You may end up with a viable remilia if you invest some level up bonuses on attack, and with the racial bonus with other SDM characters.

Also, for anyone tired of endgame grinding, I'm sharing this small script I made to automate B11F grinding, this script requires autohotkey, and will move your character up on the map, get into battle, use the second skill of the character that gets their first turn, then use the second skill of the character that gets the second turn, then repeat with a move down so it doesn't get stuck.
This assumes both of those characters will take their turns before any of the enemies, and that the second character will wipe out the rest of the enemies, and that your game runs at 60 FPS.
Personally I used this with Nitori+Shou or Nitori+Miko on B11F, since their second skill is one that targets everyone, and wiped all enemies in my case. Feel free to modify it as you see fit
You can pause the script by pressing P, and it doesn't work once any of the 2 characters runs out of MP, so the Dragon God's Power subclass on first character will help quite a bit
Just copy the whole spoiler, save as .ahk file, and execute it.

Loop
{
    Sleep 4000
   Send {m down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {m up}
 
   Sleep 1000
 
   Send {Up down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Up up}

   ;BATTLE START
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
   ;FIRST ATTACK IS LAUNCHED
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
   ;SECOND ATTACK IS LAUNCHED
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 200
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 4000
 
 
 
 
   ;THIS SECOND THING IS FOR SENDING DOWN INSTEAD WHEN MOVING ON THE MAP
 
 
 
 
   Sleep 4000
   Send {m down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {m up}
 
   Sleep 1000
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
   ;BATTLE START
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
   ;FIRST ATTACK IS LAUNCHED
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {Down down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {Down up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 300
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
   ;SECOND ATTACK IS LAUNCHED
   Sleep 3000
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 200
 
   Send {z down}
   Sleep 100
   Send {z up}
 
   Sleep 4000
   }
P::Pause
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on March 18, 2021, 11:58:00 PM
So I started NG+ with new characters unlocked. My party is basically 2/3 of what I love using in 1

I have the full SDM cast because I like them. I hated Sakuya in 1, but I feel like she's way more viable in 2, which is strange since I was complaining about high defense enemies and that's kind of her bane in both games. I figured it would be fun to see how much MORE useful she gets when high defense becomes less of a thing to boot.

Reimu just cuz I never play without her and it would feel wrong to. In labyrinth I mean. Plus the AOE heal, so yeah. Though I do think Reimu is way less useful in 2 than 1 in general. She doesn't have her par, and her defense buff just doesn't seem as important as the first game because there seem to be more aoe defense buffers, and lots of self-buffing abilities in general like Majesty and whatnot. I still wanted her though just so I can feel like how MUCH worse she is in general (or maybe be surprised an d find out she isn't).

I didn't want to take Nitori, because she kinda is broken, but plus disk nerfed her, so why not, that and her super nuke scales better than defense ignoring ones, so it'll be better in the plus disk content I imagine. She and Flan are my only 2 real stupid high defense boss killing characters, I'd say Patchy too but IIRC Patchy's silent Selene does NOT pierce high defenses in 2 nearly as well as it did in 1, even WITH grand incantation, or concentrate, or whatever it's called.

Ran because I love buffing people out of the front 4. Kasen to see how she compares to Remi post remi buff, I really hope remi is noticeably better midgame+ considering I have the full SDM cast, and none of the deva cast other than Kasen (it's deva right? It's been awhile since I've been exposed to touhou lore).

I never really did try cootie-suke much, so I figured I'd give a go at him as a tank.

Minoriko because having so many tanks and above-average endurance characters without a healer to synergize with them would be dumb. IIRC she was actually a really damn good trash cleaner too in 2 unlike 1.

It took me a long time to figure out who to make my last character. I decided to go with Kanako. I wanted to like her in 1, she fits the bill of a damage dealer who is beefy enough to sit comfortably in slot 2 for most fights. But in 1, I just felt like  she wasn't actually a good enough damage dealer to really make her worthwhile, aside from the odd  super vulnerable to cold enemies. I figured I'll give her a shot in 2 and see if I like her more this time.

Last time I played I had parsee and Hina in there, I really liked Hina's debuffing abilities, and while I wasn't very fond of Parsee's RNG, I saw that her RNG significantly improves in plus disk. However I figured taking Hina would be a waste this time around for post game because Cootie-suke's plus disk traits look crazy for debuffs, and figured if I had both, I'd have something of a wasted slot, and without early game debuffs, and no terror other than Kasen, Parsee would kind of be dead weight until post game too.

edit: I seem to recall that ailment-inducing things stacked, but I can't find somewhere that confirms it. But I can 'stack' an item that inflicts silence for example  on say Kasen who also has a silence on all skills skill, and the chances increase correct?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 19, 2021, 06:22:30 AM
Yes, if a character has an item that allows attacks to inflict a status, attacks that already inflict that status will stack with the item. This can sometimes let you inflict a status on an enemy that you wouldn't have been able to without the item, most relevantly with Yuyuko and the item that adds Death to attacks.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on March 19, 2021, 08:32:54 AM
I seem to recall that ailment-inducing things stacked, but I can't find somewhere that confirms it. But I can 'stack' an item that inflicts silence for example on say Kasen who also has a silence on all skills skill, and the chances increase correct?
Passive skills and items stack their effects together. Spells depend a bit though, certain spells do not stack with items/skills, or stack only duration or chance instead of both (see https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Misc#Spellcards_and_Status_stacking)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on March 19, 2021, 03:33:06 PM
Also something interesting about how defenses work in this game. I have no solid evidence but based on hundreds of infinite corridor floors I believe that defenses are applied after buffs and debuffs. But before boosts and elemental resistances. That would explain why grand incantation pierces armor so poorly.
Anyone who can confirm this?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 19, 2021, 06:10:20 PM
Sort of. A very basic summary of the damage formula is (Attack - Defense) * Damage Multiplier. Attack is altered by buffs/debuffs, skills that specifically increase Attack, and part of the spell card modifier. Spell card modifiers follow the above formula exactly, for example, the basic attack is (100% ATK - 50% Target DEF) * 1 (substitute MAG/Target MND for Magic Attack). The English wiki lists the formulas with the modifier applied already, for example, Tenshi's World Creation Press is listed as 269% ATK - 82% T.DEF, this is (1.64x ATK - 0.5x T.DEF) * 1.64. More often than not, spell cards have the same attack and damage multiplier, but not all, for example Sword of Hisou is (1.28x ATK - 0.5x T.DEF) * 2. Probably a good 90% or so of the game's spell cards calculate target defense as 50%.

Anyway, back to explaining the formula. The Attack and Defense values are both affected by the same modifiers (buffs/debuffs, skills, spell card modifiers), the final result is affected by all of the damage multiplier values like affinity, effects that specifically increase damage (not Attack/Magic, but damage), and the spell card multiplier. The 5% damage increase per level for leveling up spell cards is applied here. Grand Incantation is a damage multiplying effect and not an attack multiplying effect, so if you're doing say 20 damage without it, a 140% Boost effect would only be 140% more damage, 48. If the enemy's defenses are high enough to significantly mitigate your damage, Attack/Magic buffs would be much more effective at increasing your damage. But against truly high defenses, your best method of dealing damage would be trying to bypass those defenses as much as possible instead of trying to overpower them.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: IRUN on March 20, 2021, 02:38:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fFxLR28.jpg)
Apparently 3peso is making a proper skill tree for every character for LoT3.

(https://i.imgur.com/Xc3EGhg.jpg)
The new dungeon map also looks pretty good.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on March 20, 2021, 06:08:17 PM
Initially I assumed that the skill tree picture was one that was shown before, featuring a skill that added an HP regen effect to Great Hakurei Barrier, but in fact, this is a skill that adds a 16% Boost effect to Reimu's Armored Yin-Yang Orb skill. When Armored Yin-Yang Orb reduces a Spirit element attack's damage, the character hit by that attack will receive a 1-hit 16% Boost effect.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on March 20, 2021, 06:51:01 PM
It's not a big deal so I'm not complaining, but just something I like to discuss in general are game mechanics, and frankly I think skill trees are one of the worst forms of customization that everyone uses for some reason. I personally feel like Skill trees are prone to cookie-cutter builds more than most games. Yeah sure every game potentially has a one meta build or something, but when it's a tree, it's normally easier for the layman to figure out, which isn't bad in of itself, but not because t hey are easier to understand, but  because you have to take specific paths to get milestone skills down a tree, so your 'customization' is often looking at a few really good deep skills, and taking a 1 way route to it, with maybe a few leftovers that don't matter much in comparison once all is said and done.

I do think the plain old lineup of skills where you can get any of them right at point 1 is a better form of customization.

I guess I like skill grids more too, if t hat's what it's called. You know, path of exile/Final fantasyx, that kinda thing. They generally offer more than one way to get milestone skills and people can vary in their approach and such.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on March 20, 2021, 07:27:41 PM
I guess I like skill grids more too, if t hat's what it's called. You know, path of exile/Final fantasyx, that kinda thing. They generally offer more than one way to get milestone skills and people can vary in their approach and such.

that's exactly what's being pictured i believe. given how the level numbers are written, it would seem that the skill tree goes from top to bottom, and looking at it, there's multiple ways to reach a lot of the nodes (not to mention there's likely no level cap so if you gain points on leveling you'll eventually have the whole tree anyways).

regarding the map screen, it seems that there's now quests or something displayed in the top right? the text is:
- search for cirno who's gone missing
- search for the sheep and ask for meiling's cooperation
- find an item that will get alice's interest (?)

which reveals who we're likely to be recruiting early on, though it's hard to say what the time difference is between getting these and being able to complete them
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on March 22, 2021, 01:49:55 AM
What? It  does NOT look like path of exile FFx at all to me. Definitely looks more like a Diablo/World of Warcraft style skill tree.

As for getting them all, yeah I suspect that will be the case but that's not what I'm really trying to discuss
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on March 26, 2021, 03:19:23 AM
Howdy everyone! Some pretty cool news here. After hours of research, extracting, sourcing, and organizing, I have finished making the most comprehensive playlist for LoT2's soundtrack that exists on YouTube! Feel free to check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0zP4gI98sdfo0f2BOQHW_c160kQ-PoXp (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0zP4gI98sdfo0f2BOQHW_c160kQ-PoXp)

The only thing I can think of that needs some working on is that I haven't been able to identify where quite a few of the Plus Disk songs are located in the game. I haven't quite 100%'d the game yet despite still having a massive amount of experience with it, so if you know where some of the Plus Disk songs appear in-game for any of the videos that are clearly missing that part of the title, then shoot for it and I'll update the playlist as soon as I can. :)

Really happy to finally have something like this on YouTube - hope our little community appreciates the effort as well.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: deice on March 26, 2021, 08:35:12 AM
if you know where some of the Plus Disk songs appear in-game for any of the videos that are clearly missing that part of the title, then shoot for it and I'll update the playlist as soon as I can. :)

orchestral mission (by a free music composer called KK https://dova-s.jp/_contents/author/profile024.html (https://dova-s.jp/_contents/author/profile024.html)) is yamata-no-orochi's battle theme

the rest of the unmarked plus disk songs are all unused to my knowledge, but it has been a bit since i've played so anyone is free to correct me
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on March 26, 2021, 04:56:01 PM
Many thanks for the info, Deice! I'll get right to updating the playlist.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: jaxter0987 on April 04, 2021, 12:15:14 PM
Like Ghaleon, this is also my first post since the change. Still feels nice to see some old names sticking around after the change. And just like before, I'll probably only be lurking around in here and maybe some other HME threads if some doujin games catch my eyes. Hopefully, I'll get back to play-through and actually start Plus Disk proper. I just kind of got distracted by other games (and will stay distracted for the foreseeable future thanks to Monster Hunter Rise).

I just wanted to get account creation and first post done ever since I decided to check shrinemaiden on a whim late night. I still like Touhou. I still like LoT. I just haven't kept up with Touhou news past TD. To quote someone's signature from the old forums:
"There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away..."
I don't think I'll ever stop being a Touhou fan even as I consume the content less and less often.

And with all that random nonsense out of the way, back to lurking while waiting for LoT3.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: ZephyrNightwind on April 07, 2021, 05:42:00 AM
To quote someone's signature from the old forums:
"There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away..."
That would be my old quote from back then, actually, and I am glad that you remember it. Because it means that I actually left an impression.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on April 08, 2021, 11:02:24 PM
Ooh, some more LoT3 news from the developer! https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1380163093318221836/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/aaa_3peso/status/1380163093318221836/photo/1)

The new UI of the third game looks insanely polished considering how early on into development it is. The leap in visuals probably won't be nearly as extreme as the jump from the first game to LoT2, but this is still extremely impressive. And in 720p HD/Full 16:9 to boot.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FantasyJared on April 09, 2021, 08:38:54 PM
Bit of a hiccup in the translation here on B11F after you solve all of the puzzles. Thought I'd point this out just in case qazmlpok isn't opposed to updating it again someday. :)

(Really fun floor to explore, by the way - solving all of the puzzles made me feel smarter than I probably actually am! =w=')

https://imgur.com/a/xqOxdQD

Update: Found another hiccup here:
https://imgur.com/a/DjRZhGQ
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ludibrium on April 15, 2021, 03:41:44 AM
This place seems to have a lot of experience with this game, so I'm wondering if someone can tell me how my stat spreads are supposed to look.

Ever since I cleared the last Tenshi fight I haven't been having fun with the game's bosses at all, with almost every time they breathe an AoE wiping the party outside of tanks (and sometimes those too) and basically the only way I manage to win being if I RNG out a bad moveset from the boss so that people stay alive long enough to buff and nuke them out. Or death cheese them in cases I really hate trying again.

On the other hand even early threads on here for this game pretty much said the game isn't even that challenging so I'm obviously doing something wrong. Nitori as OP as she is doesn't even easily win a damage race for me at 150 ATK into her library points. I'm stuck on the three golden orbs right now since even when I can survive an AoE sometimes it just does two before I get my turn back because it's too fast and wipes us...

My team consists of Tenshi, Iku, Nitori, Mystia, Reimu, Yuyuko, Keine, Mokou, Reisen, Satori, Sanae, and Kasen.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 15, 2021, 06:12:16 AM
Everyone plays the game differently so you can expect mixed results
Me personally, I prefered going full Mag/Atk on the damage dealers, HP/MND/DEF for the girls who wouldn't be dealing damage most of the time, aka support and tanks, and for specific characters I had different bonuses
For Reisen I had all MAG with about 20% on her speed, she was a damage dealer and a debuffer, plus she could keep herself in a better-than-average state with Grand Patriot's Elixir
For Aya i went half HP half SPD, many times she just dodged attacks and if not, she could tank one or 2, specially with an Eirin overheal
Parsee All atk, and a few times some MND, because her mind is so ridiculously high, she can make magical bosses deal 0 damage to her if you set her up correctly

If you are using Iku+Tenshi, you can have Tenshi be a decent attacker, the synergy skill she has with Iku gives a tremendous atk buff, or if you tend to keep them not together on the front row, Tenshi could be a good tank, albeit with lowish HP

Don't worry about the bosses 1shoting the non tanks, thats normal, once you get to know their attacks, and the affinities they favour, you can gear your girls better, affinity make s a huge difference in received damage

If against the orbs the problems is surviving, focus on Orb of Reverse Time as it is the most dangerous one, but then you would have to outdamage the healing and buffs of Canopy, while keeping Forward time alive, because if its the last orb on the battlefield, it will revive the other 2.

You have to pick your poison, take out their main damage dealer or the healer/buffer first, then Forward Time, then the remaining orb.

Btw Canopy is weak to silence, reducing his magical defenses to half, and Forward time to all debuffs, so you can Really make Reisen do some work in this fight, Poison also works well here.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on April 15, 2021, 07:54:43 AM
Generally speaking, you want to prioritize the stats that are most relevant to the character's role with level up points, and balance out everything else with library. An Attacker will probably want full level-up bonuses into their attacking stat, then invest library points into said attacking stat and speed, with some investment into all the other stats too (except for the offensive stat they don't use). For example, a level 50 Nitori may have 50 level-up bonuses into Attack, and then 50 library levels in HP, Attack, Defense, Defense, Mind and Speed (if you don't have enough money, then something like 50 for ATK/SPD and 30 or so for the other stats); tanks will focus on either HP, DEF or MND (depending either on the character's strengths or what enemy you're facing), and Supports (like buffers or debuffers) will probably focus on a mix of defensive stats and Speed.

Make sure to use buffs, debuffs and statuses, since they can make a world of difference. For example, you can inflict Silence on Reverse Time to reduce its Magic stat by 20% (all of its attacks scale with Magic), then buff your defenses to >50% and you should be able to comfortably take its attacks. The same for damage, maximize buffs on your attackers, use damage boosting effects like Herbalist's Herb of Awakening, reduce enemy defenses with statuses or debuffs, and take advantage of passives that increase damage output for the whole frontline (such as Satori's damage bonus on hitting weaknesses).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ludibrium on April 15, 2021, 11:12:53 PM
Yeah it seems the problem is that I didn't balance out stats in Library. I just used the wiki to throw stats in where it was recommended, and now most characters are too slow to keep up with the bosses. I also can't manage to use the affinity resistance equipment without tanking my attack stats so only my tanks ever get to try those for survival. Not sure how I should get the money to afford this for so many characters though...I guess I could leave someone like Sanae out for dead for her Last Wish and Mystia at nothing just for her Instant Attack switching gimmick.

Is there a good way for me to read the enemy's ATB value? It's not as simple as the value simply being lower meaning they go later because their ATB regen speed can be higher than mine. Not being able to do this very well has costed me a lot of attempts. Also, how accurate does the recommended level tend to be? I've usually been underleveled throughout the game just from not intentionally grinding, which doesn't seem to go very fast in the EXP gain.

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 16, 2021, 03:32:40 AM
Its a challenge level, at that level you can beat the boss but it will be difficult, and if you do, you get extra rewards
Only way to measure the atb bar between 2 different speeds is to eye measure it sadly
And while damage may tank if you go for affinity equips, its better than dying, plus if you can buff your characters, it usually evens out, specially later in the game where item value becomes really bloated and doesnt increase stats as you may think
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on April 16, 2021, 04:32:58 AM
For the most part, Main Game Challenge levels are really forgiving, even if your party is underleveled and understated you can generally still win without too much trouble with a bit of optimization. It's only starting from Postgame where they actually get mean, and you're basically expected to be exactly on the suggested level and have 1.2x your level in all the relevant library stats.

Regarding equipment, keep in mind that equipment bonuses are additive, so they do get diminishing returns. So equipping, say, 3 Biggest Sword Evers vs 2 Biggest Sword Ever + a defensive item doesn't tank your damage that much. You generally still want full offense if you can afford it, but if you're really struggling with getting your damage dealers to survive, some extra durability in exchange for a bit of damage can be worth it.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on April 16, 2021, 05:57:25 PM
Is there a good way for me to read the enemy's ATB value? It's not as simple as the value simply being lower meaning they go later because their ATB regen speed can be higher than mine. Not being able to do this very well has costed me a lot of attempts. Also, how accurate does the recommended level tend to be? I've usually been underleveled throughout the game just from not intentionally grinding, which doesn't seem to go very fast in the EXP gain.

ATB accumulation depends on speed. From 100-200, it is as simple as accumulating ATB by the same value. The speed values on the Golden Orbs is

Forward Time: 160
Reverse Time: 200
Canopy: 178

So they accumulate ATB by the same amount per tick. For the challenge levels, challenging bosses with an average party level that matches the challenge level, generally with a library level of 1.2x that amount (these are the restrictions for hard mode), gives a pretty fairly balanced fight.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 21, 2021, 04:27:53 AM
I haven't played that part of 2 in so long, but for LoT in general. It's good to identify if a boss' killer nuke is physically based or Magic based (I don't mean by element, but in terms of if Defense or Mind reduces its damage). Lots of characters that aren't neccesarily tanks can be pretty tanky for that attack type specifically. For example, Patchouli, parsee, Hina, Minoruko can often survive mnd-targeting attacks better than an even pure tank like Tenshi or Meiling, likewise, even if you built them for attack, characters like youmu, yuugi, Remilia, etc can take a def-targeting attack pretty decently. I find that pure aoe attacks th at really smart target mnd more often than defense however, defense ones tend to be more single target or row-attack.

You mention library levels, you for sure want to spread those out. Level up bonuses you generally want to invest in 1, maybe 2 stats, but the skill library, It's normally best to spend them pretty evenly among the relevant stats. By relevant, I mean all defensive stats (except maybe patchy's defense, Yuugi's Mind, etc, but even then it's worth spending some points into them while they are really really inexpensive comapred to t he other stats), and whatever attack stat your character uses. If they have composite attacks that you actually use, you generally can afford to spend half as many levels on the 'other' attack stat since they generally don't matter so much, and your points are better spent elsewhere, but still get at least half for sure because the investment is low and the return will be noticeable.

As for affinities, I haven't really figured that out for lot2 yet. I'd cram it up  in lot1 pretty mindlessly, but in lot2 they scale up in cost REALLY fast. Probably best to just spend them so that they are about the same cost, maybe double of your 'usual' stats (cost per level, not actual level).

Finally, I don't know how reliably you are at debuffing bosses. But I find that that debuffing bosses in lot2 to be a bit more reliable than it is in 1. You aren't going to get them -50% on everything, but even -10% on all stats makes a big differense, and if you can make them -10% on most stats AND -30%ish on one stat, it helps a lot. I find in lot1 lots of bosses had hard debuff immunities across the board, but in 2 it seemed to be more of a thing to be expected of you.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Thurler on April 21, 2021, 11:58:03 PM
I did some digging today to uncover the numbers for a mechanic I noticed some time ago while doing bosses way under challenge level: you get a boost in drop rates based on your party's average level. This stacks on top of what the game shows you as the "Drop Rate Bonus" on the victory screen, and can be a very significant boost depending on how big the level difference is between your average level and the enemy's level.

I made a pastebin with a "mock" python code that explains how the formula works and gives examples of how this boost would happen. It should be readable enough that someone with zero background in programming can follow along: https://pastebin.com/f1m633qc

For a brief explanation in plain english though: each enemy has 8 item drop slots, each slot has a number 0-10000 describing how likely that drop is. The values in % you see in the bestiary are simply that number / 100, so a 50% drop would have a value of 5000. Some spells and skills affect this base drop rate, such as Nazrin's Rare Metal Detector doubling the (base) drop rate, and Radiant Treasure Gun giving a 1.25x boost to this base drop rate.

After computing the modified base rate, the game applies a multiplier to that value, based on the consecutive battle bonus, the amount of items held that increase drop rate, whether the frontline knows some skills, and the difference between the party's average level and the enemy's level. The game then multiplies the modified base drop rate with the multiplier (the one you see on the victory screen), arriving at a final value that gives your final probability of dropping an item. It then rolls a random number 0-9999 and uses that to check whether an item should be dropped or not.

A quick example, Nazrin killing a Small Kedama with Rare Metal Detector, with Dowsing learned and Kourin in the frontline with Lv.10 Shopkeeper, with no consecutive battles bonus:
The 2% drop rate for a Piece of Heart becomes 6.4%, and the 3.2% Kedama's Fur Bundle becomes 10.24%. Since the Small Kedama is Lv.1, there's no way to get an extra bonus based on your party's level, but if the enemy was, say, Lv.100, and your party's average was Lv.80, you would get an additional +60% in that multiplier, which would further boost your odds at dropping those items.

One final note: the Appraiser skill "Kill bonus: Drops" is bugged and improves the base drop rate chance by 40% instead of 16% as stated in the game. This is because it applies a 7/6 bonus, which would yield the correct 16% increase, but then applies a 6/5 bonus as well on top of that. Very weird.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 22, 2021, 10:29:05 AM
That's nice to know. I just f igured you got a static increase for doing it under challenge level. This kinda makes high stat slow level characters more attractive... The challenge level thing stops becoming a thing post game though right? I forget.

Anyway I've been pondering on making a 2nd play-thru simultaneously with my current one (currently at 11f) using some characters I overlooked at somewhat before. Kinda. I remember when lot2 was new I though Kogasa was surprisingly good, so I kinda want to try her again. Based on my last post, I've been eyeballing reisen... I just auto-ignored her before because she's probably my least favorite character in the Touhou universe, but discarder looks sooo dang good, and her vertigo eye thing looks broken too, I plan to combine her with Hina again because I'm not using Hinda in my current playthru, which is painful because I really enjoyed her in my last one that I cut short.

I also don't like the hp only sponge tank thing people like, but I figured I'd give it a shot for once, so that means Komachi of course. Also th inking of Eiki because her team synergy skill thing has no requirement and is strong so may as well, plus she can carry the high defense main game content somewhat.

I like parsee already in lot2, but having kogasa and hina and not parsee just seems like a waste, so having her as a safe choice as I experiment seems good. I'm also th inking of attack build Meiling. I consider Kasen as Remi+, but looking at attack build Meiling, she may also fit the bill. Finally Byakuren because none of these characters have  buffing as a forte, and she's pretty good at buffing everything.

So so far I got:

Byakuren, Meiling, Kogasa, Parsee
Hina, Komachi, Reisen, Eiki

Looks like  I'm lacking a healer, I always have Minoruke and reimu, so I kinda don't want to have them, but they are both so good at it. Any suggestions without making me feeling like I'm playing a handicap run? I'm thinking of going Minoruke again, and dumping reimu. Still can't figure out who else to put in, any suggestions?

edit: Lack of Mag nukes too, so I'm thinking Rumia without any other team 9 to get her solo synergy buff (solo synergy lul)
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: kael070 on April 22, 2021, 11:34:29 AM
Challenge level stops being a thing once you reach
Yamata no Orochi
, don't know exactly why though, but I guess because bloated values on exp start to give very different average levels on the party as the floor number goes up, so you may end with a team of fast levelers that naturally go beyond the challenge level, and if you went with slow level characters you could be like 50 levels below challenge level and still do fine.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 23, 2021, 08:38:18 AM
welp, made another party for another playthru.

Not sure if anyone cares but just so you don't think too hard about it when I already selected it, I got:

Komachi cuz I never tried a squishy high hp sponge tank before, I hate the concept but will give it a go.

Eiki cuz her synergy skill is powerful and easy to access and even without it defense ignoring attacks are nice main-game, and I hear spirit is a good element post-game, so win/win I guess.

Rumia cuz team 9 has a solo skill that looks good, and I hear weak stat fast levelers are pretty good in plus disk, so I'd like to see how, with a character I thought wasn't bad already mind you, dark side of the moon  always seemed to h it like a truck coming from someone with low stats.
(totally off topic though, but where does the Touhou lore about rumia being an op maniac like Flandre who is suppressed by.. I forget... her hairband? b racelet? something?, come from? Does said lore mention how much it suppresses her? just curious)

Kogasa because originally I already thought she WAS good, and like rumia, she is a low stat fast leveler with a surprisingly good dark attack. I guess the atk/def  version of rumia instead of the mag/mnd version. Even now though kogasa seems better because high def always seemed rare compared to high mnd, in addition, kogasa's surprisingly good dark nuke comes with a terror debuff and 'arm twisting' =P, while rumia's does not. We'll see long term I suppose though.

Reisen cuz I dislike her and I recently looked at her kit and thought, yeah sure, she looks good.. blah.

Hina cuz Reisen's vertigo skill helps other debuffers alot too, and who else debuffs like hina? I've played  with hina before, and am curious how m uch of a difference vertigo eyes make for her.

Meiling Attack because I always have her as a tank, but I can see how op her mountain breaker is. I'm curious what it's like to not use her as a tank, and  use her as a dps who can take a hit with it is.

Minoruke cuz I have no healers at all still, and  komachi has a bigass health pool to deal with, Meiling does too even if her def stats are low (her hp isn't), and I got mokou, yeah.

Byakuren because I have no buffers at all, or any majesty characters yet, I need a super buffer, and she fits the bill.

Parsee as something of a carry because I know her, and having hina and risen and kogasa. Parsee will have all the requirements she needs to shine pretty much.

I couldn't figure out my last two, b ut I guess I teased one by mistake.

Mokou: She looks like trash to me, but was the accidental spoiler. Her stats aren't bad, but they aren't great either, and her level up rate doesn't really change it. Her spells are really quite poor as well imo given how she is limited to 2 elements only. Her main single target attack formula isn't even better than the warrior subclass base attack. However this is exactly what I'm looking for. A character with stats that doesn't seem bad, but spell formulas that DOES. Seems like the perfect swordmaster candidate to me. Looking forward to trying it.

Last, Keine, I decided on her before mokou after seeing her plus disk s kills. I saw her base stat upgrade one, and sat there mouth-agape for a minute. Just like i wanted a not bad stat bad formula attacker for swordmaster, I wanted one for archmage, and Keine delivers. Her spells are dung, her s tats are meh, butr her level up rate is ok, but who cares cuz both her stats and her spells don't stand out. I want to see how archmage spells stick out as a whole using a character with seemingly broken stats (which plus disk keine seems to be).

Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on April 23, 2021, 09:05:15 AM
Welp I'm just a bit too late with this. But some suggestions if you want to change your mind.

Eirin is a pretty good healer, if you subclass her for it. With subclass heal she can overheal squishy characters to twice or trice their max HP. She also has limited armour piercing so can do reliable damage.

Also fun to use now that you picked Komachi is Satori. She can copy Komachi's Narrow Confines of Avici, which is an extremely powerful holy nuke. I believe of all abilities in the game, only Marisa's master spark is (slightly) more powerful.

Speaking of hp sponge tanks, I noticed Aya is a really good in that regard as well. High evasion and HP make up for her low defense. But more importantly she has excellent support skills, so she always has stuff to do even as strategist.

For surprise archmage: I wonder how well Renko would do. Her magic stat is pitable, but her leveling rate is ridiculous. With some books and gems she can become fairly powerful. Plus since her speed and hp are so high you can afford to spend all leveling points in magic.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 24, 2021, 05:33:48 AM
Yeah renko looks like an interesting choice for mage, but I dunno if she can compare to Keine without deliberately giving her all the best gear for maintenance, which I know is kinda what you do with that skill but it makes it hard to tell how good the character is as a base, and how much of it is that you're playing favorites with them. I'm using her in my only postgame content game too so I don't want to re-use her.

I was eyeballing Eirin instead of Minoruke, but Minoruke heals faster, is great against trash, and I actually think she makes a good magician. It's not on the wiki. But her  mp is sky high, and her spells are cheap (well the aoe one isn't but you don't tend to use th at for bosses), with her fast leveling and regen and def buff/heal in one. She's really good at staying out and keeping someone beefy out with her, and since she's fast, I find I often don't have to use a turn healing, or maybe even switching if my attackers aren't full bar nukers. So giving them that mana battery buff thing is something I like to do to keep people's mp bars high, beefy attackers in particular tend to use efficient low delay nukes that allow them to stay out several turns, but th en poop out and be gone for some time, so keeping mp up on them really helps them do what they're already good at for even longer. Magician is the mp healing class right? that's the one I'm talking about. Oh yeah, and her super concentrate when low mp thing makes it so even if she has no mp to share, she gets it all back super fast.

I never used Satori yet Satori copying narrow confines DOES sound good, though I have to wonder  narrow confines uses mag not atk, so Komachi has to effectively waste a turn doing it first right (I mean I imagine it's a waste to do it for damage with Komachi alone, you do it for the debuffs, but if you're looking for damage, it do esn't deliver with her very well I would think). But then Satori comes in and makes good use of it. Does Komachi have to do it every time for every time Satori does? Or can Komachi do it once, and Satori proceed to spam it for as long as you like? It does sound interesting though. I'll probably give it a shot if I end up being able to live with the sponge tank thing enough to play with komachi again later.

Sponge tank Aya also sounds interesting, but I only want one sponge tank for my first time trying it, and Komachi is pretty much the gold standard. Well I guess Mokou can also be a sponge tank, I didn't select her to be an alternate tank specifically though. But I suppose she'll end up with that job on occasion if needed.

I just hope I like Keine archmage lol. I have to wait a really long time before I get to make use of that, especially this is my secondary run in a simultaneous run thing going on. Mokou on the other hand I'm expecting not to be too keen on. She's not exactly a high stats bad formula character, but more like a decent stats below average formula character, so I don't expect her to make good use of swordmaster nearly as well as Keine will be an archmage, but I really coudln't find someone who seems to fit in like Keine does. I was thinking Mystia, but opted for mokou because I know mystia is actually pretty good, and mokou I'm skeptical of, and then there is the keine synergy.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on April 24, 2021, 02:17:06 PM
Satori gets to copy all personal spellcards from her frontline allies, you don't need to have the character actually use the spell for Satori to be able to use it; as long as Komachi and Satori are both in front, Satori can use Narrow Confines.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 27, 2021, 06:51:20 AM
simultaneous playtru fail. I accidentally saved over it. I hate it when games auto-select a different save file than the one you loaded from lol. At least I was only on the 2nd floor.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Marbychu on April 27, 2021, 06:09:03 PM
simultaneous playtru fail. I accidentally saved over it. I hate it when games auto-select a different save file than the one you loaded from lol. At least I was only on the 2nd floor.

ouch, that's rough. You could always try to keep a backup of the save folder that has the save you want to keep, but then you have to replace the backup every time you make progress. I'm currently playing through not one, not two, but FOUR playthroughs myself, and I'm worried that I'm gonna save over one of those, or Kanako forbid, my 5th file that has all of my Plus Disk progress.

Each of those 4 other playthroughs uses a different set of characters. There are 48 characters you can start with on a NG once you beat the enhanced final boss, there are 12 you can actually use, and there are 4 save files that I wasn't using. The math works out perfectly.

I limited myself to 3 healers per team (doesn't seem like much of a limitation until you realize that I'm counting characters like Yuuka and Mystia, whose heals are very situational, as healers), and anyone with kinship/synergy skills (like Yukari/Ran/Chen or Aya/Nitori/Momiji/Hina, even though the latter is postgame only due to Awakenings) must be on the same team. Each team is based around a leader, though I have no special rules in place regarding them (basically, if they die, I'm not declaring it a game over or anything. That would be WAY too rough). The leaders of each team are one of the four characters you start off with in a normal NG: Reimu, Marisa, Keine, and... Rinnosuke... ugh.

So far, I've only extensively played with Reimu's team, which I am calling Border Team for obvious reasons, up to the 4th floor. It consists of Reimu, the Palace of Earth Spirits crew (minus Koishi since she's only recruitable after Plus Disk starts), the SDM residents, and Yukari and her spinny gals. Komachi wasn't nearly as much of an issue as I thought she'd be; turns out, Patchouli is Very Freaking Good. I started with Keine's team afterwards, but haven't even gotten to 2F yet. History team consists of Keine and Mokou, Sealing Club, Moriya Shrine Katamari, and the Youkai Mountain crew, including Minoriko even though I don't think she gets a synergy skill with the rest of them. I've had a bit more trouble coming up with a strategy for clearing trash mobs than I did with Border Team, so any suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on April 28, 2021, 01:50:10 AM
I never used Rinnosuke too much other than my current playthru. But I've seen other people really swear by him due to his high stats after skill point spending (they are expensive though, so mine is still just a loot upgrade device trying to act as a not quite tank. I mean I swap him out instead of my tank on occasion and generally takes one hit and I'm like ohcrapohcrapohcrap before I switch him out a gain lol. Hopefully th at wont last much longer because I'm now at the point where I CAN spend skillpoints on his def/mnd high stats.

I'd be more worried about Marisa. She was one of my fave characters in Lot1 because asteroid belt was such a good fast aoe nuke that was extremely good at piercing defenses to boot (had like a 1/4mnd formula instead of the usual 1/2mnd). On top of that, her master spark just seemed to hit way harder, and her mp recharge was faster so you could realistically use it multiple times in a boss fight. I haven't used her in lot2 for some time, but she no longer has a great defense piercing aoe for trash, and her master spark can hit bosses for 0! Arm twisting (renamed forcefulness I think?)helps, but it doesn't make it go from 0 to hero, but rather, just your average nuke (except the obscene c ost), combine that with the fact that switch out mp regen in 2 seems WAY slower than lot1, you aren't going to be using it multiple times per boss fight unless they are REALLY long (and even then it's unlikely you will with the 100% extra mp investment buff thing).

As for your 2nd team, it actually has some great trash cleaners in it IMO. Nitori is great, though she wont shine until you get maintenance with a good item or two. I put the wash basin set I got since 6f I believe on her, and ever since then she's been 1shotting entire packs of trash all the way up to floor 14 or something, and even then she generally 1shots everything except really odd enemies like gelatinous cubes and those looking from the voids. Aya is also possibly even better than Nitori, not because of her own personal attacks, not that they are bad. But being able to instantly fill up a slower character's timebar effectively makes it so you can make anyone you want get the jump on the enemies, Great for patchy. Too bad she's not in the same party =P. Still though, any time you have a character that would be good at trash but comes out too slow, just slap em with Aya. Best part is that because Aya is fast, you can use up all her mp when you start a dive doing that, and then when she runs out, do your backup party, and aya will always get mp back after because she's the fastest, so she'll get her mp regen 'turn' for sure when off front lines...Except maybe if you 1shot everything with Chen. I don't remember who is faster after factoring level stuff, probably down to the items they are wearing.

I think Mokou is decent at it too, but never played with her much, and Minoriko is excellent too. Kinda like Nitori without a frost nuke option, nature only. But she's fast, and even if you build her full mnd/hp (not mag), it hits surprisingly hard and fast.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on April 28, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Honestly Rinnosuke's High Boost skills aren't that amazing, they mostly just compensate for his otherwise low stats and make them decent. Most of the value Rinnosuke provides in a team is based on his passive reward bonuses and Effective Formation Change; the latter makes any character Rino switched in get 9100 ATB instead of 7500, which is really useful. Sadly the fast switches become obsolete once Plus Disk Speed inflation comes into the picture.

Marisa generally has it rough during the Main/Post game, partly because so many bosses resist MYS. She performs excellently in Plus Disk though, since damage multipliers become more important, making Master Spark a fearsome nuke that can generally oneshot non-resistant bosses with some setup.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 02, 2021, 10:53:55 PM
at the pre-plus postgame now. Killed all the shadow bosses up to knowledge, which I guess I'll bite the bullet for and bring orin or something, explored 11f extra and 10f extra, starting 9f now. I don't really remember how I unlock a character's plus disk only skills, is that in the basement floors? Those start at about the same difficulty as the  21f rock unlocking bosses right? So take a crack at a floor or two after I explore all the extra floors approximately?

Also, does lot2 have a charagraph-like thing like lot1 special disk? Some people mention enemy formulas and stuff but I do n't know where to find them, I would LOVE a charagraph-like folder for 2!

Also, I'm almost at plus disk content, which is when you start getting stat up gems that you use on characters who hit the 10 cap on the  stat gems. I however, despite killing everything at the challenge level, have only maxed out on 1 or 2 characters on each of the various stat gems. Was there a way to farm more asides from the final boss? Was it infinity gems? I don't remember if infinity gems were too valuable/rare to 'waste' on stat up gems like that or not.


So far with this run some observations of mine.

Remilia, contrary to looking like a weaker Kasen on paper, is in fact MVP for me and my playstyle much like lot1. I recall dark being a more useful element than physical, yet for some reason, I find that the monk's nature nuke kinda works whenever kasen's dark nuke would, and when it doesn't, physical is more useful. I don't know if it's because I have the full sdm team and that makes a big difference, but it doesn't really seem like it since I rarely have remi out with anyone else other than China for long periods of times during bosses. In addition, her last fortress has really helped sometimes. Like the 1f shadow boss. That m-effer was  1shotting like half my party with its adds, ad before long my Remi and her last fortress was able to tank like 12 of those hits when even my pure tank built china could only eat 5, barely, when her def was stacked high (and remi's was always high due to majesty+monk thing). Same went for the wasp. That turn would just randomly up and 1shot my non tanks, and it is so fast you can't really make yourself swap in and out safely, so I'd just have to risk it at times, but after some deaths, last fortress really seems to stack nicely.

Patchouli seems to be doing better this time around than I recall before too. I have been giving her all my speed gems (capped now), but she just doesn't seem that slow with the appropriate mag/speed gear like lilliums panties. I'm looking forward to her +disk skill to make her element resisting piercing ability even better. Also, I made her monk thinking that  seems silly since she's a mag user, but holy smokes is it actually really good. Being able to start with a full bar and concentrate faster on a character with grand incantation and as many aoe nukes as her is win, it could also be what's contributing to her surprisingly not slow speed. I'm looking forward to getting hp on her too. I may yet be able to keep her out for extended periods of time for maxium sdm synergy buffs with  china and remi.

I haven't made sakuya very useful for bosses yet, but she's great on trash.

I can't make Kanako good. I just can't. I'm giving her all my mag gems, I gave her the same equipment as Patchouli, but she's nuking bosses for 0 fairly often, and the ones that don't have super high defenses, she isn't hitting for great amounts, even the ones weak to cold. I don't think she was even slightly better than average against a single boss since floor 10 or 12 or something. hopefully her plus disk skills will carry her, but I'm skeptical.

It's hard to tell how useful she is since it's easy to take for granted the buffs you get from before but forgot about, but I'm just feeling like Ran isn't as good in 2 as 1. the mp  growth and regen in lot2 is just way slower, and once you throw a few buffs out, she's kind of just there doing nothing. She's kinda tanky but not enough to really make a good one. the mp from plus skills doesn't seem that attractive to me, I'd rather have mp regen on her, and her arithmatic thing is nice, but even maxed out it doesn't even kick in 50% of the time. The tofu thing on the other hand makes it look like she will in fact become a great tank. I think I might change her subclass too by then to something that might take advantage of her boosted offensive stats too (currently a strategist). The  speed increase from the tofu will help with mp regen at least, yay.

Rinnosuke now has high def and high mnd, and he is definitely a good sub tank for China currently. First aid is also nice just for debuff clearing. His fast switching is also nice... He's basically full of things that make you go 'oh that's nice', but he still isn't really making the difference on any fights. I have hopes for him though because the increased money and drop rates aren't nothing, and his +disk debuff skill looks absolutely nuts, so I'm hoping he'll go from nice to actually good.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 03, 2021, 07:05:46 AM
The awakening skills are obtained in the Infinity Corridor, which you unlock eventually as you go through Plus Disk content.

Enemy formulas and ai can be found on the first post of this topic, in "Various info files on enemies/stats/formulas etc.:". Keep in mind it's sorta outdated since this was datamined before Plus Disk came out, but a lot of it is still accurate.

Don't worry too much about stat up gems, if you don't farm them on the final boss, your realistically won't max them out until much, much later. Just focus your gems and jewels on the most relevant stats of your best characters.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Serela on May 04, 2021, 11:36:51 PM
Pre-Plus postgame is an absolute strawberriesshow, to be entirely honest. Most fights have WAYYYY too much def/mind for almost anyone to function, and some of them are just absurdly hard even if you really know what you're doing. I'd just overlevel for most of it and don't try to evaluate characters based off that area. Once you enter Plus Disk content the balance is completely different.

Kanako is pretty solid and her Awakening is excellent, and Sanae eventually outclasses Byakuren in late plus as a support tank with family bonus, plus Suwako eventually picks up good steam too (she's pretty eh for most of the game, glass cannons are hard to use in lot2). Kanako might feel a little so-so by herself since she's not the strongest attacker, or the most durable character, she just does both pretty decently at the same time.

I think Ran is pretty underwhelming in this game. Her attack buff is O K in mega lategame where you can afford to cast it a little more, but the cost is mostly way too prohibitive for the effect, and she's not as useful offensively as in LoT1. Chen on the other hand turns into a shredder in late plus, and Yukari's pretty alright all game.

Rinnosuke gets fat stats in main game, fast swaps for most of the game as main utility, and eventually his reason for existence becomes Hexer Rinnosuke with -insanely- accurate debuffs that basically nothing can reliably resist. The chance to proc on his base skill and on Hexer's skill stacks and becomes almost irresistable. Still, it's debatable whether he's worth a party slot, but it's a good niche.

Marisa with a Certain Limited Use Special Class just rips boss faces off with an Omega Spark. It's Good.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 05, 2021, 02:04:32 AM
Yeah I'm just about done pre-plus postgame. I beat knowledge at challenge level by cheesing it via Orin. But the azure giant, megatama/mirror bosses are just  stupid. I remember hating how much def/mnd bosses had in lot2, but I thought Tenshi and 20f boss was the worst, but they were small fry compared to the horror that is the megatama/mirror. I mean FFS. I had a +80% boost 140% level 180 with  200 library levels in her mag, astral dominae for mag, liliums panties for mag.. and I forget my 3rd slot. Just a general thing like breaker title or whatever it's called mostly for resist all, SDM synergy X3, use level 5 silent selene.. and... 0. It didn't have def/mnd buffs either, that was base stats. Granted it didn't have def/mnd DEBUFFs either, but  still. I decided eff it, I'm just killing those 3 at my max level rather than challenge level. Even at max level, the only thing that dents it is fully buffed remi's monk nature nuke, spear hits 0. Even then it hits for like 20k only. Sakuya's killing doll against the weak to dark enemies hits for like 30k just cuz of the pierce+weakness. So essentially nothing. Flan and Nitori are it, and even Nitori isn't really harming them much unless they have high def debuffs, which I can't get to land reliably yet (waiting for awakening skills on Rinnosuke).

Maybe I'm on crack, but I don't recall the enhanced sword final boss (murokumo? makumuro? I forget) being that nasty.

Also, I looked at the spellcard formulas in the first post, thanks again. I knew that skilling up damage spellcards wasn't terribly beneficial, but dang, looking at the formula, it looks like they only buff the damage of the spellcard by about 5%. Not even pre-mitigation. like it calculates post-mitigation, and then slaps 5% on. wooo.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 08, 2021, 08:36:45 PM
So now I'm at the part where I just beat up Futa (most frustrating easy boss fight ever... Easy for me anyway I imagine because I have such a tanky bruiser heavy party, but frustrating because it was hella hard to finish her off without her healing back up to half over and over. The few glass cannos I have, I'd risk poking their head out for ONE attack and nope, she decides to single target nuke the back slot in one strike alsakfja).

I've unlocked infinity corridor, did a few floors of that just to see what it was like, and instantly regretted it after reading up about how you can't start over again. Is there really no way? I can't hack a data file into thinking I didn't start yet? Seems really weird to have a procedurally generated dungeon that you can't reset lol!

I want to reset b ecause I didn't know it rewards staying in longer for streaks, so Its obviously best to overlevel some in the 'main' game, then do a big honking dive in the infinite dungeon instead of poking at it just for fu n right at the start and 'waste' 5 floors.

Also, to unlock my character awakening skills I have to beat them up as a boss in the infinite dungeon? oi vey, that seems like that is really really far down the line for some characters like Flan. That said I suppose the one character I want to awaken the most is Rinnosuke because I have no dedicated debuffer, and I'm kinda counting on him to become it with awakening skills. What level approximately do you guys think is high enough for me to do a big dive from floor 1 (well, 6) to whatever level Rinnosuke is the boss for?

Actually what happens if you do like a 30 floor dive and game over. Do you start over from 30 floors ago? Or does it 'save' at the last floor and let you try again? With or without the dust you have spent?
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on May 09, 2021, 12:45:03 AM
Awakenings aren't tied to a character's specific boss, they basically give you an item that you can then redeem for a specific character's awakening at your choosing.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 09, 2021, 05:19:20 AM
I see... I think I also figured out that the level of enemies aren't tied to floor count directly either, but how far you've dived on that particular dive. so starting on floor 300f on the first time will be about the same as starting on 1f for the first time? If I get this right? Maybe wasting 5f wasn't such a bad deal then. Still though I should try and make it so I can do a 10f dive I rekon at least until I can get a few awakening stones.

Though it will be weird fighting a "serpent of chaos' at a relatively sane amount of hours played/grinding ratio =P
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on May 09, 2021, 11:27:18 AM
Enemies scale with floor level directly, but they also seem to get bonus levels from the floors you cleared on your current run. You always start at the last floor you exited or wiped from.
Something to note is that the lower you get, the slower they level per floor compared to your party level. Like from floor 1-10 they get a lot stronger, but from 301-310 you barely notice it.

Another thing is that the stuff you can buy from dust you can generally also get from infinite corridor directly, materials that drop from infinite corridor, or buy with infinity gems.

I liked doing the infinity dungeon at an appropriate level in short streaks. Also since I liked a lot of the bosses in there. But in the end it depends on your own preferences how you go through it.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 11, 2021, 02:17:11 AM
I think I'll do the same thing with some infinity corridor, some main dungeon, etc. Probably push myself for the corridor until I get a few key characters some awakening skills. Rinnosuke absolutely needs them. He's kind of a doorstop as a hexer without his affinity skills. Reimu's looks pretty good too because blink looks like a serious buff for everyone, and her defense buffs/aoe heals just don't seem as grand as they do in lot1. Patchy's looks really attractive too with some much needed hp in addition to that crazy looking resistance mitigation/ turn non resistances into actual weaknesses. Doubly so since some high end artifacts give bonuses against elemental weaknesses... Does this work  if her passive  makes their resist go <100? Or does it have to be <100 first?

Not that I need to (yet), but I'm just curious. Are there major grind-friendly floors beyond this point like 20f, (for its level range, it's pretty obsolete now) or lot1 27f? Or is it just kinda stable until the plus disk's final floor (which I suspect will be like 20f is to pre-plus disk).
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: FabulaFares on May 11, 2021, 07:16:27 AM
Patchouli's awakening skill does not create weaknesses even if she reduces an enemy's affinity below 100.

You generally won't need to grind until the Plus Disk Postgame, which gives you one location on the top floor and later one in the bottom floor to grind.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 14, 2021, 02:53:03 AM
I'm at like B6f/23f/inf39f. diamond knight on 30f was total cake, but Marisa on 20f was basically 1shotting even my tanks with her ordinary  magic missles at 200 mystic resist, not a ton I know but certainly enough that they shouldn't totally make the explode. In any case I'm deciding on to do a bit more main content for about 50-100 levels before more inf dungeon because I would like to try and do more than 20 floors per dive which my last was. Incidentally my last dive was pretty funny, on one of the first floors I had to break open a single '!' chest, and it gave me an effing ribbon. I was like HOLY, that's a ONE '!' chest?!?! Near the end of the run I used an infinity key to open a 5 '!' chest, drooling at what it would get me... a ribbon. I mean ribbons are great, and while I'm pretty sure my holy crap that's amazing good luck factor was redlining hard to get one from a single '!' chest, it somehow made the 5'!' one disappointing lol. I got like 4 '!' chests, but they were all spartan books, not too impressed. skillpoints are still at a premium and I don't like spending them on book skills yet. Not to mention I have like 30 unused books still.

I got a few characters who could really enjoy dem ribbons, but I'm finding myself unwilling to take off those growth eggs. Speaking of which, has anyone ever done the math behind finding out when those +exp skills would 'pay themselves off'? I haven't even tried but I have a feeling it would be several hundred levels later.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: LonelyGaruga on May 14, 2021, 06:29:07 PM
I've seen Abyss Kogasa's Rainy Night's Ghost Story one-shot Iku with the Tenshi bonus at nearly 400 Dark affinity and over 300K HP, the Abyss bosses really do hit that hard. That was prior to the level reduction (564), so the numbers will be a little lower, but don't underestimate their damage.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Ghaleon on May 15, 2021, 06:28:19 AM
Kind of a shame because I'm noticing that the other plus disk content is way easy in terms of bosses. It's weird. You get these trash enemies that are fast as fuu, and can 1shot  your guys, like those angry mud things, or more obviously those turbo murder whales, so you feel like you aren't overlevel, then you get to the bosses, and they hit you for like 0 and go down in just a few turns. It's really weird. Then I goto infinite dungeon and the bosses start 1shotting me again. Trash on the other hand is a mixed bag in there. Sometimes they are cake, but then you get those cloud things that  1shot everyone with ether flare. I can normally kill them before they 'splode, but it's always nail-bitingly close, and I have to h ave a stronger group in. If I have some  weaker units out to rotate around the tp spending, you can forget about it, it's flee time.

I think the trash difficulty is good, I like it having oh crap moments, and otherwise being threatening without it being oh crap every time, but without even trying to grind they seem to make me over-level against the bosses. I normally attack them at challenge level, but my understanding is there is no benefit to after  post game and given this is my first time getting this far I kinda want to see how things feel by 'default'.

I do think the earlier floors of the infinity dungeon should be a bit easier just so that players can awaken more of their cast to enjoy for the main plus disk content. As is it feels liek you'll only get very few awoken before you have literally nothing left but the final bosses in plus disk (and only because the level gap between them and the previous ones are massive kinda like kedamageddon->serpent of chaos (I think kedamageddon was the 27f boss? I forget) and infinity dungeon itself.
Title: Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 19F
Post by: Gobbles on May 15, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
Observing eye is probably the most nasty thing you can encounter the in infinite corridor, and for sure the one that wiped me the most :). They resist all elemental attacks and are weak to the rest. They also seem to have a moderate magic resistance.
I believe the boss difficult will level a bit more with the encounter level. With occasional spikes like Serpent of Chaos or Unicorn of Order.