Author Topic: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)  (Read 473317 times)

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zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #330 on: June 04, 2020, 01:54:48 AM »
oh welcome back zoomy


beru

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #331 on: June 04, 2020, 02:02:14 AM »
You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

bro I literally think everyone who is posting is towny

I should probably read the playerlist to see who isn't posting tbh because I actually don't know who all of the players are and it feels like the thread is just zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and uhhhh yeah that's it. yes I'm not including you this is the first post I remember from you

I could probably form actual reads if I sat down on my computer and looked at posts properly but uh. feels like doing work and I don't want playing a game to feel like doing work, I wanna have fun playing a game. not spicy enough in here for my usual fun level tho.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #332 on: June 04, 2020, 02:06:31 AM »
bro I literally think everyone who is posting is towny

I should probably read the playerlist to see who isn't posting tbh because I actually don't know who all of the players are and it feels like the thread is just zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and uhhhh yeah that's it. yes I'm not including you this is the first post I remember from you

I could probably form actual reads if I sat down on my computer and looked at posts properly but uh. feels like doing work and I don't want playing a game to feel like doing work, I wanna have fun playing a game. not spicy enough in here for my usual fun level tho.

see nothing personal but like

yeah

townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum

Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #333 on: June 04, 2020, 02:07:35 AM »
also a thought process i agree with. i think im different in that im not sure if nucleuss belligerence is intentional or comes from years of not having played (and fwict having his first game in a while be a mafia roll?). i like to look at stuff like this within context. he is harming the town but i dont think people have really expressed to him what part of his act is actively harmful
I feel like it's eccentricity and ambition which is always going to be a blessing and a curse that's going to follow him into either alignment, but he's a lot more lucid and understandable roughly after I replaced in so I'm feeling better. The excessive gambiting and overextending just made his posts feel all over the place. He's probably going to read this so I guess to contextualise what feels bad I'll say that, to me, all of the posts before then just read like the mafia equivalent of "I made an AI sit through 300 hours of law commercials and made it write a law commercial for me." Which is uh, a lot of thoughts that feel loosely coherent but also not.

Quote
i mean i dont disagree but... hmm. im kind of seeing like. is beru the slot that i want to try and solve out first? berus not gonna try anyway afaict so wouldnt it just be easier to ask nucleus to nuke them or something? generates less complaints and still leaves the vote open
I don't disagree here either but I figure I can use my vote as extra pressure but it seems like he's not biting. Contextualised also with this post after yours
oh no it's more nuclear posts that I hate. I don't agree with replacements being v because where I come from replacements were lynched on sight because they were always scum. I've mellowed on it for a bit but if anyone is replacing out due to alignment it's probably scum tbh
Which shades my slot but I've heard neither hide nor hair of actual dialogue with or thoughts about me (or even my predecessor?). Like there's absolutely nothing getting accomplished here.

Quote
hmmm where do you get that impression from? i want to know. you asked for a dialogue and hence i shall give you one. tell me. i know you say "gut reads" but youll still have something to say besides that. everyone does.
I mean this was pre-replace in following along reads so admittedly I wasn't paying the most attention (which is why Raik's actual lack of doing anything slipped past my view, oops). I'm basing a lot of reads right now on who is actually trying to play and make things happen, which is also why I'm bothered by the extreme apathy a lot of users are presenting. In a lot of circumstances it is harder for scum to push cases on people who aren't scum so nobody having clear scumreads and a lot of people not doing much about it is really muddying my interpretations.

Basically I believe Dormio's intent and investment especially wrt making the case on you, it felt like it was coming from a place of someone who saw something sus and wanted to push it because of genuine belief that they'd found someone anti-town. Daiya as well is doing a fair bit to promote dialogue and shows conviction in their posts. They're not strong reads but I'm treating them with conviction so as to avoid the dreaded waffling.

Quote
id like you to differentiate the two for me
It's quite hard to at this moment, I could see both of them being scum honestly since they're both guilty of similar things. If i had to choose one over the other I'd rather lynch Raik because at least Serela is being more openly self aware at the lack of doing anything which can be read a bit more like "town who is struggling to get a foothold" but I'd rather they both go tbh.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #334 on: June 04, 2020, 02:12:53 AM »
oh, no, i meant

Quote
but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving.

can you differentiate the two terms

Serela

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #335 on: June 04, 2020, 02:14:32 AM »
I would like more of your thought processes here, I want to know what's giving you so much pause on zwerd, both the good and the bad.
ehhh, but it's not really a conflicted read so much as I don't have a strong opinion either way. On the upside, he's continuing to be one of the more active players, which is generally a good sign? of course scum can be active too though so it doesn't mean a lot, but at least around here they're more often... not :U

every one of beru's responses is an excuse for not reading the game and uh
yeah guys it's time to lynch beru ain't it


Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #336 on: June 04, 2020, 02:16:34 AM »
I guess at this point I'd rather we look into Raik/Serela/Beru as main lynch priorities but I could consolidate on meow (who after my prod still did not offer that much to work with), Yaer I'm probably the next least sure of but at the same time I'm willing to let them cook on things and live another day.

CUT:
oh, no, i meant

can you differentiate the two terms
oh, well i mean game theory as what other people are saying wrt something like just talking about how to approach the game re: things like how to go about claims and other mafia theory topics as opposed to alignment solving which is forming opinions and pushing thoughts and actually coming to conclusions on specific individuals. Raik's said a lot of stuff that's objective discussion about the game as opposed to the subjective nature of actually playing the game and figuring things out.
Ok this sounds like a lot of fluff but I hope you get what I mean lol.

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #337 on: June 04, 2020, 02:20:50 AM »
I guess at this point I'd rather we look into Raik/Serela/Beru as main lynch priorities but I could consolidate on meow (who after my prod still did not offer that much to work with), Yaer I'm probably the next least sure of but at the same time I'm willing to let them cook on things and live another day.

CUT:oh, well i mean game theory as what other people are saying wrt something like just talking about how to approach the game re: things like how to go about claims and other mafia theory topics as opposed to alignment solving which is forming opinions and pushing thoughts and actually coming to conclusions on specific individuals. Raik's said a lot of stuff that's objective discussion about the game as opposed to the subjective nature of actually playing the game and figuring things out.
Ok this sounds like a lot of fluff but I hope you get what I mean lol.

no that makes sense sure

beru

  • im gay
Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #338 on: June 04, 2020, 02:47:17 AM »
see nothing personal but like

yeah

townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum

if I was a wolf then I would actually have people to scumread, tho :^)

beru

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #339 on: June 04, 2020, 03:27:43 AM »
am I allowed to say that my scumreads are all the players that aren't zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and me

or at the least, nullreads. and I guess itp in nuclear's case

if you haven't had any impact on the game I'm just not going to like u even if I don't know who u are. like me not knowing that you're playing is kind of the problem

idk when eod is but if you really want to I can get on the computer sometime around 20 hours from now (my gf is here and getting laid is more important than playing mafia I'm sorry)

Serela

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #340 on: June 04, 2020, 03:33:30 AM »
idk when eod is but if you really want to I can get on the computer sometime around 20 hours from now (my gf is here and getting laid is more important than playing mafia I'm sorry)

CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #341 on: June 04, 2020, 03:49:45 AM »

Alright, Zoomy came in with the force of the tempest and drive a case on beru.
Beru's response under pressure does seem townish, I think I would rather lynch Yaersulf, my primary scumread for switching voting styles without actually acknowledging my votepark accusation.

##Unvote

##Vote Yaersulf

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #342 on: June 04, 2020, 03:50:30 AM »
Apologies for not being able to derive a bigger case, but such is deadlines and we have more than enough material to digest.


zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #343 on: June 04, 2020, 03:53:52 AM »

CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??

no, beru is actually gay

Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #344 on: June 04, 2020, 03:54:40 AM »
Beru's response under pressure does seem townish
You're absolutely going to need to explain this

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #345 on: June 04, 2020, 03:54:59 AM »
You're absolutely going to need to explain this

verbatim my thoughts

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #346 on: June 04, 2020, 04:57:25 AM »
ugh i feel like theres literally nothing more i can do this game

Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #347 on: June 04, 2020, 05:01:34 AM »
ugh i feel like theres literally nothing more i can do this game
Verbatim my thoughts
Kinda just waiting for more people to comment.
Can I convince you to join the Beru wagon? Your vote on Daiya is doing nothing

zwerdjib

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #348 on: June 04, 2020, 05:04:39 AM »
Verbatim my thoughts
Kinda just waiting for more people to comment.
Can I convince you to join the Beru wagon? Your vote on Daiya is doing nothing


i guess

##vote beruwu

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #349 on: June 04, 2020, 05:10:43 AM »
You're absolutely going to need to explain this

I was also at that point with L-2 before, so I can psychologically relate to that state of mind of being pressured but not really motivated to defend myself too hard.

Beru's response here is quite similar to me, he didn't panic and did not seem scummy.

Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #350 on: June 04, 2020, 05:16:50 AM »
I'm still not really seeing how it's not scummy.
From my POV there seems to be minimal acknowledgement of the pressure and no real change in behaviour from pre>post votes.

If there was scumhunting from his end involved I could chalk it up to "I'm not going to defend myself but let my actions speak for themselves in due time" but there's no attempt to try and figure out the game.

beru

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #351 on: June 04, 2020, 05:23:29 AM »

CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??

people who are doing things want to solve the game and are therefore townie? and from this it can be extrapolated that people who are not doing things are scummy? it's not hard

apologies for not writing 5000 words on the subject but I am level 0ing this, it's not hard

also I'm a they

raikaria

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #352 on: June 04, 2020, 05:54:34 AM »
townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum

Isn't this true for Town as well?

Also the fact Beru's attitude hasn't really changed under pressure I think is a towntell? He's not panicing or anything. Scum would naturally be a lot more self-preservative. Also I guess I kind of emphaise with Beru's 'I think everyone who's actually trying to do something is townie' stance because I have a rather similar stance.

Also; I think it's worth mentioning again. Often in MotK Town D1 the people actually posting content are town but other townies make cases on them because they're the ones with the content to make cases out of, and we often end with Town v Town D1 with Scum lurking or low-efforting.

To be fair; Beru hasn't actually done much. But there are many players who have done far less.

Like; you have abu/meow who have done literally nothing; Dormio's actually done hardly anything, same with Yasulf. You could even throw Bardiche in here alright what he has posted I like.

I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least one scum among these 5.


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raikaria

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #353 on: June 04, 2020, 05:56:16 AM »
Anyway I got work and it's a long shift today so... yeah.

I'm not inherently against a Beru lynch but I don't want to just park on that wagon for 10~11 hours without being able to adjust for any developments.


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Bardiche

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #354 on: June 04, 2020, 08:37:52 AM »
I'm alive, but also, I'm not. I'll respond in-depth to developments later (TM), just nothing on a skim stuck out enough to want to switch off Serela.

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #355 on: June 04, 2020, 09:45:50 AM »
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Foxtrot

Beru (4) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsugumi, Serela, Zwerdjib
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
Daiya (0) -
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Zoomy Tsugumi

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #356 on: June 04, 2020, 10:17:52 AM »
I really dislike how so many people have yet to post anything significant. Or just anything at all.
The Chihiro slot is a void right now, NuclearWaffles is either going to be lynched or nuked at the soonest opportunity, and Yaersulf/Daiya/meow56/AbuHumaid/beru basically don't exist.
Selery is posting but being extremely useless, zwerdjib I dislike due to reasons that I've iterated plenty of times I feel, and raikaria/Bardiche are shining beacons of sanity in these dark times.

What I'm basically trying to say is that I hate mafia.
I think a fair bit more has happened now, have your thoughts changed from this at all?

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #357 on: June 04, 2020, 11:03:09 AM »
Work sucks. Anyway.

Still don't like zwerdjib. On top of what I've said earlier, I'm not a big fan of relatively neutral stance he takes with regards to Zoomy. In his first big post here, he makes the statement "i think you care more about this game than a lot of people so im beginning to think you might be green" which is a really weak statement coming from the person who just outright states things like "beru is scum". Like his previous townreads were worded much more definitely "raikaria is probably town"]/[url=https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660]"serela is probably t." and it irks me. Like, it sounds to me as though he was being a bit indecisive and wanted to leave his options open on being able to swap his read really quickly if Zoomy's following posts looked scummy.
On top of that, I don't really like this statement here "i follow. i copy. i agree. i think at this point its going to be much easier to resolve a lurker slot than say dormio so im fine with a gameplan like this." Like zwerdjib thinks that I'm scum. I'm pretty sure he hasn't changed his opinion on this. But he's content not to push me because he thinks it's easier to push a lurker. Yep, I definitely don't like this one bit.

Other opinions include Zoomy sounding incredibly sane, and NuclearWaffles toning it down a bit. I still think NuclearWaffles is going to be nuked at the soonest opportunity, so that's a whatever from me.

Serela continues to exist and... not much more. Not liking this at all.
beru, AbuHumaid, Yaersulf, and meow56 are all dead slots that need to be prodded with many sticks to get them to post more opinions. Too bad I think the only thing more inactive than these slots is our mod.

NucleusWaffles

Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #358 on: June 04, 2020, 11:28:53 AM »
Work sucks. Anyway.
"raikaria is probably town"]/[url=https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660]"serela is probably t." and it irks me.

I believe this is a heavy Dormio scum/SK scumtell. He almost never bothers to make a post difficult to parse as town, and he is completely absent since our scuffle which Bardiche chainsaw defended him out of.

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
« Reply #359 on: June 04, 2020, 11:35:53 AM »
Like his previous townreads were worded much more definitely "raikaria is probably town"/"serela is probably t." and it irks me.
EBWOP