Author Topic: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin  (Read 628 times)

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Karisa

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Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« on: February 13, 2020, 04:00:09 PM »
I'll be starting this with HME, since it was my old section.

For anyone else: feel free to create threads for brainstorming about the sections of the site you know best, as long as you have some initial suggestions. I'm hoping this can be a cooperative effort.



Some initial thoughts:
- There should be a useful links and info sticky for HME-specific topics, to complement the main thread.
    - Maribel's site should definitely be there, with a summary of what it includes.
    - replay uploaders like LunarCast, and Royalflare's scoreboard
    - reference list for various abbreviations, though Maribel's Touhou Community Jargon page might be enough
    - Perhaps basic technical info for setting up the games (translation patches, setting up vpatch for the older games with input lag, PC-98 emulation).
    - wiki pages? Emphasis on the /Gameplay pages for game mechanics, perhaps?
    - Touhou Replay Showcase?
    - Info about recurring tournaments like Dodging Rain Competition?
- Gameplay tips for newcomers to playing Touhou games. There are plenty of basic techniques, like streaming/restreaming, looking ahead, bombing in advance, using stage practice.
- Should I port over my Beginner's Guide to Touhou Scoring thread as is? Anything that needs to be updated in it besides adding Touhou 17?

The MotK scoreboards are archived and will be posted later, though it might take a while. See here for more details.
    - It's possible we can find a way to finally have submissions for the 4 single-spell games, perhaps by using a spreadsheet; they'd been excluded since they'd be tedious to update in a forum setting.

Tech Support probably deserves its own organization thread-- I'm wondering, should it even remain a subforum of HME?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 06:24:03 AM by Karisa »

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2020, 08:03:09 AM »
Tech Support probably deserves its own organization thread-- I'm wondering, should it even remain a subforum of HME?
HME definitely has a history of dealing with the technical aspects of Touhou games. Outside of Tech Support, threads about various patches or tweaks were very common.

Generally speaking, I have always felt that HME was about the games as a whole, not just the gameplay. This would include tech support, but also topics like in-game music or art. However, since the site never made it all that clear where discussions on these topics should go (the TARC forum description said "game discussion goes right above" but HME description makes it sound like it's exclusively about gameplay), so they were often brief and spread over multiple places, like "Daily Touhou Best Topic" or some TARC entries. Let's maybe clarify this.

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2020, 05:39:24 PM »
Yeah, definitely. It's always been a small issue with the old forum where people didn't know where to put their topics. I've seen a number of threads posted in HME that should've been in Tech Support too, and get moved by mods.

As for the Tech Support split, I mean, it makes sense for it to stay where it is, but also makes sense to make it its own board. May be easier for newcomers to spot it that way. I can't really argue for one or the other, whatever seems best I guess.

Also, should that mean that the PC-98 emulation guide should stick to Tech Support or should it be posted in HME instead? This is making me think better descriptions of the boards is in order, especially given the post above mine.

Karisa

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2020, 11:11:32 PM »
Interesting thoughts about Tech Support (which I suppose will be discussed here after all), particularly defining what goes in it vs HME.

Regarding patches there's also Touhou Projects, to complicate things further. I think that was intended for people to post patches they created, but it's another place that can have similar threads.

As for HME vs TARC, I'd always seen it as HME is about playing the games while music/graphics/characters go in TARC. How popular of a view is that? I suppose it could also be reasonable to define TARC to be more about characters/story and other aspects like that, while in-game music/graphics would be grouped with the games? I suppose the question is, is HME's topic about the Touhou games or about the Touhou gameplay?

I'd like to hear more opinions on both.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 11:20:53 PM by Karisa »

Kilgamayan

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2020, 11:32:07 PM »
Judging from the old forum descriptions, HME was intended to be canon discussion, while TARC was intended to be fanon discussion. In practice, though, I think it ended up with HME being strictly for canon games and TARC for everything else (including canon written works, Hifuu CDs, and the like).

There are going to be people for whom the games are the only things that matter and thus may be annoyed at written works and CDs cluttering up their board; at the same time, there are going to be people for whom all canon material is important and thus may be annoyed that (a) they have to go across two separate boards to indulge both, and (b) have to separate the canon wheat from the fanon chaff in a single board. Regardless of the direction chosen, not everyone will be satisfied.

With that in mind, personally, I think a canon/fanon split makes more sense than a canon games/everything else split.

(I would say "Tech Support" would be reserved for people that are having legitimate technological issues running games properly. This can either be a subforum of whatever board ends up being game discussion, or it can be its own board. I don't think this one really matters at long as it exists.)
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2020, 11:57:12 PM »
I always saw it as HME was game / gameplay related topics, and TARC was just chatter about Touhou (canon and fanon). Back when I was new to this series, I started off with just trying to beat the games, and HME was where I was lurking for that, and I didn't venture into TARC for a while until I started getting interested in that area.

Not to say I disagree with what Kilga thinks they should be though. It's just I'm a little undecided on what they should be. I can see it working both ways, but personally I'm preferring it the way I described above. Also makes the tech support subforum make more sense to be connected with HME, along with the high scores section. But hey, it's up to what we all think is best.

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2020, 01:20:42 AM »
Judging from the old forum descriptions, HME was intended to be canon discussion, while TARC was intended to be fanon discussion. In practice, though, I think it ended up with HME being strictly for canon games
The current description on SMv2 says:

Quote
Official and doujin game discussion goes here!

And it in practice it has never been restricted to the shmups. I haven't played any Touhou game in ages (official OR doujin...Ten Desires was the last canon shmup I played), but take a look at the Labyrinth of Touhou 2 thread for an idea of the kind of discussion that comes to my mind for HME content. Which is to say, primarily game play focused and not a general discussion forum about other fanon stuff (I definitely think of the latter as TARC material, but take that with a grain of salt because I never post or lurk there).

Karisa

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2020, 02:33:58 AM »
I suppose this raises the question of whether TARC should be split by canon/fanon. But that belongs in a TARC thread (and I don't think I'm the right person to create one, having never posted in TARC in my time on v2).

HME for as long as I've used it has been about official and fan games. There have been some threads that may or may not make more sense in Tech Support or Touhou Projects, and the question just raised about discussing in-game music, but I haven't seen any disagreement about including fan games in it.

If anything, the non-RPG fan game threads tended to get buried when HME was busy, and I proposed splitting fan games into a subforum at one point to make them easier to find (mostly since fan game threads had good reason to be bumped anytime, even if years old, to keep many games' documentation in one place), but that's not a concern on the new site.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 02:38:12 AM by Karisa »

Kilgamayan

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2020, 04:14:53 AM »
Whoops, I evidently misread the forum descriptions while in a rush at work. Sorry about that. x(

TARC always came across to me as the dedicated funposting place that we simply didn't want to call the dedicated funposting place so as to not make it seem lesser. I do still think that splitting along canon vs fanon is the most logical approach, but if the existing setup has been games vs non-games for years then I can appreciate people not wanting to mix things up now.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> fire truck YEAH

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2020, 07:55:23 AM »
While the original intent did seem to separate canon and fanon, I think it's just a smarter idea to go follow with what ended up happening in practice and follow with game/not game separation. Old users porting over would naturally be falling into that mentality anyway. Will just need to give extra clarification to both subforum descriptions.

Karisa

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 07:09:05 PM »
I updated the TARC description to hopefully better clarify the HME/TARC difference. How does that look?

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Re: Forum organization: Help Me, Eirin
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 07:15:04 PM »
Looks good to me.