Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Kotоhime on March 28, 2022, 10:15:47 AM
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So alongside Touhou Wiki drama someone anonymously sent out a DMCA in regards to all official Touhou content from Windows era and some of the albums as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/ltVfcQv.png)
It makes one wonder why is that and who's behind this. I'm a little worried that it may be some other source that's related to ZUN, though it obviously wouldn't make sense for someone else to speak for Touhou apart from ZUN.
This is especially weird since I recall ZUN being okay about fans in the west obtaining these games for free (or maybe it was just in relation to fans making their own translations?).
Side note?: Some people claim that ZUN actually DMCA'd websites that hosted PC-98 games, though I have no evidence from them.
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personally i'd wager it's just a copyright troll, many of those exist online due to how easily abusable and just generally terrible the dmca is. as an example, there was a western touhou fangame a while back which had set up crowdfunding without asking for permission first (which is a breach of guidelines). they were contacted in an orderly manner and while i can't remember whether it was by ZUN directly or a legal representative it does lead me to believe that an anonymous copyright claim is rather out-of-character.
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I don't see how not being able to freely download games other people have to pay money for is drama but sure.
ZUN has never been OK with piracy but he and his team is very small so it takes time for them to handle stuff. If anything, you should be thankful they only got around to issuing takedowns after the majority of his catalog has been released on Steam.
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A lot of the games are at least still available on steam, I'm more worried about the older albums which can be harder to come across and OSTs in general. The ones on Moriya Shrine were always really good
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All of the OSTs are on stores and subscription services like Apple Music and Spotify.
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I don't see how not being able to freely download games other people have to pay money for is drama but sure.
ZUN has never been OK with piracy but he and his team is very small so it takes time for them to handle stuff. If anything, you should be thankful they only got around to issuing takedowns after the majority of his catalog has been released on Steam.
From archival standpoint I'll say that Moriya Shrine did a good job just as an archive as it kept original ISO files for the games aside from already patched games which were on every other website.
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Alright, we've got it confirmed. ZUN took this action himself.
(https://i.imgur.com/f2wiR34.png)
This probably means he's perhaps ready for releasing Th6 up to 9 on Steam, right? Well we still don't know if he finally got around to fixing EoSD on W10 and above (for which he supposedly lost the source code?).
To be fair if that's the case then maybe he should just try to get in contact with the community itself and ask if he can rely on shipping out the game with their FPS patch. Besides that there's also Th9 to take a look at, more importantly its netcode. ZUN will probably want to implement Steam's P2P service for easier multiplayer, though that is unknown.
I wouldn't expect remakes/remasters from him as he's known for being more into making new things from scratch rather than re-releases.
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i think it's interesting pointing out that on the Cloufare e-mail only lists the games that are on Steam. I think they're only going after the illegal distribution of games with active copyright?
(for lack of a better term) I recently got copyright striked on YT for uploading the Rainbow-Colored Septentrion CD, and so have many others.
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i think it's interesting pointing out that on the Cloufare e-mail only lists the games that are on Steam. I think they're only going after the illegal distribution of games with active copyright? (for lack of a better term) I recently got copyright striked on YT for uploading the Rainbow-Colored Septentrion CD, and so have many others.
I guess that is still too hot to upload on something like Youtube. Note that the theme there isn't entirely on ZUN's behalf since he composed it for some travel agency or something like that, so it may be them taking down other uploaders since their channel is the one hosting.
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I guess that is still too hot to upload on something like Youtube. Note that the theme there isn't entirely on ZUN's behalf since he composed it for some travel agency or something like that, so it may be them taking down other uploaders since their channel is the one hosting.
I assume so, and i'd also like to point out that the whole album is probably at risk of takedown. I also posted the "Where is that Bustling Marketplace Now" track separately and that got striked :(
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(https://i.imgur.com/f2wiR34.png)
"...he also claims to have sent me a DMCA notice..."
well at least my intuition was somewhat correct ^^ ;
in any case, while i myself only ever used moriyashrine for fan content, i can at the very least admire their dedication in deciding to go full kissanime. here's hoping it doesn't leave a bad impression of the overall western community on ZUN (or even worse, leads to him starting to package drm or something with future releases haha)
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ZUN has never been OK with piracy but he and his team is very small so it takes time for them to handle stuff. If anything, you should be thankful they only got around to issuing takedowns after the majority of his catalog has been released on Steam.
He's never been okay with piracy? Didn't he say he's okay with westerners doing it in an interview or are people misinterpreting it?
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About goddamn time. Took long enough.
Wonder if there are plans to go after print works etc. and their translations as well; I remember bringing those up on Touhou Wiki about 11 years ago and people being less than enthusiastic about the prospect; after an admin went berserk on me I agreed to let it go because I didn't want to argue too much about it, but I pretty much left the site at that point and never looked back.
That being said, distribution-wise, the situation is much different now than it used to be, even though getting the games has never been an issue if you did not go at it expecting to find them in your town's local stores.
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About goddamn time. Took long enough.
Wonder if there are plans to go after print works etc. and their translations as well; I remember bringing those up on Touhou Wiki about 11 years ago and people being less than enthusiastic about the prospect; after an admin went berserk on me I agreed to let it go because I didn't want to argue too much about it, but I pretty much left the site at that point and never looked back.
That being said, distribution-wise, the situation is much different now than it used to be, even though getting the games has never been an issue if you did not go at it expecting to find them in your town's local stores.
Main issue I find with it are the fangames that are less known. Sometimes the dev just outright refuses to release it for the west. My point is that sites like Moriya Shrine brought people's attention to fangames that no one in the west would know about due to lack of translations. Can't expect people to look for fangames or other fanmade media like music through using one of Japan's alphabets. If every developer at least released their works on booth or dlsite, that'd be good on its own, but that's not case either as some of them use different methods of distribution. There are some of works from recent years that were available just once physically on a Comiket or other convention or works that were digitally sold, but got taken down for one reason or another. One side tells me it's wrong to pirate, other tells me to archive and preserve. Which one to listen?
I guess I'll follow into forces of sanity.
He's never been okay with piracy? Didn't he say he's okay with westerners doing it in an interview or are people misinterpreting it?
Probably was ok with it like 10 years ago as there were no easy ways for westerners to buy his games. Since 2017 however he's been distributing games digitally on Steam alone (which is a shame as he could also try DLSite, Booth or something else like GOG even. That could potentially give him even more money since these services may take less with each purchase). So with clear conscience he's free to take away "free Touhou" from the west as it's been going for a pretty long time.
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Main issue I find with it are the fangames that are less known. Sometimes the dev just outright refuses to release it for the west. My point is that sites like Moriya Shrine brought people's attention to fangames that no one in the west would know about due to lack of translations. Can't expect people to look for fangames or other fanmade media like music through using one of Japan's alphabets. If every developer at least released their works on booth or dlsite, that'd be good on its own, but that's not case either as some of them use different methods of distribution. There are some of works from recent years that were available just once physically on a Comiket or other convention or works that were digitally sold, but got taken down for one reason or another. One side tells me it's wrong to pirate, other tells me to archive and preserve. Which one to listen?
I guess I'll follow into forces of sanity.
No offense, but "archive" and "preserve" are the big words some of those sites like to mention, which, by itself, is totally valid, but if you only want to preserve, keep the data somewhere safe and ask for better ways of distribution from content creators, but do not fool yourself into thinking that your noble quest to archive and preserve somehow gives you the right to provide the media content that creators worked to create to thousands of people who basically just want free stuff.
Granted, I agree there are some unfortunate cases where the means to obtain specific media are very limited, but at the same time, I recommend you wonder if that really somehow legitimizes uploading their works for free, often as early as day one.
In general, you inevitably wind up creating scenarios where every single person draws the line less far down the road. One will say it's fine as long as it's available in stores in Japan, the next one will be fine with download links, the next one won't buy anything not available in his own country. However, if you really think that limited means to obtain something somehow justify just taking it for free against the content creator's specific wishes, I honestly don't know what to say. You don't need to play every game, but you absolutely should respect content creators and their wishes; it's not like there are none that haven't been turned away from creating content for good because of this very problem. If in doubt, why not muster up the courage and ask them to make sure they're okay with their works being archived and preserved somewhere (and provided for download to just about everyone)?
Again, "archiving and preserving" sound like fine goals, but in the end, it boils down to a sense of entitlement for the large majority of users. They need to have that game/that CD, they deserve it or they flat out don't care.
Personally, I'm honestly not even sure if I like ZUN and Tasofro based on many of the stunts they've pulled (console-exclusive characters, game design choices, event-only releases), but you bet I still respect them enough to actually buy their works and not go for downloads because I don't like the channels through which all games have been available for more than one and a half decades, even from outside Japan.
In that vein, the response from the site itself is also interesting since they mention they want to "find alternative means to continue to provide service to the community" - wonder what that is, but if it entails anything involving downloads, they're at least outing themselves for the hypocrites they are. Though at least they are not referring to themselves as fans in that post - because they may like the stuff they share, but they sure as hell aren't fans with that blatant disrespect for the content creators. That being said, if they're referring to something else, then at least now they may have a better approach to this in mind.
General note - you just happened to be the one mentioning archiving and stuff, so I'm not necessarily referring to you when I say "you".
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In that vein, the response from the site itself is also interesting since they mention they want to "find alternative means to continue to provide service to the community" - wonder what that is, but if it entails anything involving downloads, they're at least outing themselves for the hypocrites they are. Though at least they are not referring to themselves as fans in that post - because they may like the stuff they share, but they sure as hell aren't fans with that blatant disrespect for the content creators. That being said, if they're referring to something else, then at least now they may have a better approach to this in mind.
I'm not speaking for them, but I suppose the best thing they can come up with for keeping on living as a website is turning into a torrent site. That's harder to DMCA and they'll be probably also moving away from Cloudflare to something less restraint.
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I'm not speaking for them, but I suppose the best thing they can come up with for keeping on living as a website is turning into a torrent site. That's harder to DMCA and they'll be probably also moving away from Cloudflare to something less restraint.
it might not even necessarily involve torrents. since they mentioned moving servers to a country with different copyright laws, what's more likely is that they'll have the files hosted on another service (instead of directly on moriyashrine) and just link to it. in many countries, you aren't held accountable for simply linking to copyrighted content as long as you yourself aren't hosting it. this is how many anime/manga/movie piracy sites survive.
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Which would confirm that they are absolute dirtbags, but guess we'll see if they surprise us or not.
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Curiously enough, even games that haven't been for sale in 20 years are now getting taken down too.
https://spaztron64.github.io/th98tuc_site/
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piracy comes with risks and nothing is guaranteed but the reaction over these DMCA takedowns was like the community forgot that rule. Widely popular site gets hit and instead of simply looking for another source the community throws a tantrum It was one of the most disappointing things I've seen in this fandom.
Pc98 no longer being sold makes it vaporware but unless zun officially gives his blessing then it's still piracy and at the mercy of DMCA takedowns so Ultimately it's the fault of the translator who bundled the patch with the actual game.
Does this mean those pc98 titles are lost forever? No that's ridiculous there's copies everywhere on the net which again means throwing a tantrum is nonsensical and only served to highlight how entitled the western fanbase could be.
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Good News (or Good Highlighitng) of a News since https://moriyashrine.org/ has,mainting promises and resolve without any hard feelings or bitterness, returned " Fully Back Online After-Maintenance Without Any Official Material" alongside "
P.S.1 OH! It CERTAINLY GAINED a lot of " functionalities and active following" since I last, a time far back it really seems, checked it out and navigated it : "News Bulletin & Forums " ; "Clubs & Gallery(with Albums ) ; "LeaderBoards " ; "Chat&Discord Server " ;Activity Timeline ; "Intro to Touhou " ; ...
P.S.2 This reminded and spurred me to go and look back to the (Translated and apart from " any Insights such as during Interviews)" Touhou Release Content Guidelines"
https://touhou-project.news/guidelines_en/
http://takker6.tada-katsu.com/t-081.html
https://kourindou.exblog.jp/
https://kourindou.exblog.jp/14218252/9178184/
P.S.3 While performing the above I have also find out this,which " an helpful template guide for Westerners Touhou Gamers/Enthusiasts indirectly linked to the Touhou Release Content Guidelines " ,
https://en.touhougarakuta.com/eastern-playing-en/toho-no-asobikata-en/
on https://en.touhougarakuta.com
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I am aware, I think lemons.party is related to this issue since small animals are being used to hamster drive engines, but I am not sure if all antique games need to be nuked .
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Alright, we've got it confirmed. ZUN took this action himself.
(https://i.imgur.com/f2wiR34.png)
This probably means he's perhaps ready for releasing Th6 up to 9 on Steam, right? Well we still don't know if he finally got around to fixing EoSD on W10 and above (for which he supposedly lost the source code?).
To be fair if that's the case then maybe he should just try to get in contact with the community itself and ask if he can rely on shipping out the game with their FPS patch. Besides that there's also Th9 to take a look at, more importantly its netcode. ZUN will probably want to implement Steam's P2P service for easier multiplayer, though that is unknown.
I wouldn't expect remakes/remasters from him as he's known for being more into making new things from scratch rather than re-releases.
Maybe not replying back is better, the current modern keyboards provide lots of digital signing options it’s hard to retrospectively judge what is or is not certain
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I guess I'll follow into forces of sanity.
I like dlsite personally, for lewd reasons. Žźżz
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I'm not speaking for them, but I suppose the best thing they can come up with for keeping on living as a website is turning into a torrent site. That's harder to DMCA and they'll be probably also moving away from Cloudflare to something less restraint.
Just anchor it to my Yurucamp episode 11 subs and bind it to the torrent tags for the gynaecologist laboratory data if things get really dire.
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The Japanese alphabet has two slash systems, the hiragana for local calendars which is rotated based on the shogunate, or so rumoured, the katakana for everything else Ainu and English, I couldn’t even pronounce the strikes letters on hiragana properly.
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I personally felt it was fine as a child since natural progression in the games illustrate the passing of lore with retrograde developments (subterranean animism four divas, outclassed by hidden star in four season sages, wriggle nightbug from imperishable night transiting to cirno and eternity larva clownpiece etcetera…) and it is like the games such as the one where Horikawa Raiko is the extra boss, which is set on ZUN’s child birth and I cleared, The games usually reflect how demotivated the creators are since they slap random stuff together instead and go for hot baby making.
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Again, "archiving and preserving" sound like fine goals, but in the end, it boils down to a sense of entitlement for the large majority of users. They need to have that game/that CD, they deserve it or they flat out don't care.
Did they ban or ridicule you in the past or something? Because, boy, ironically enough I can't get through a paragraph of yours without getting a massive feeling of the sense of entitlement you've mentioned.
Either way, it's a shame and I hope like Kotohime and others mentioned, we are actually getting rereleases of things we can't get in the west or Europe right now, because if not, this will only have the opposite effect. A bit more hidden, but still public sites in the background sharing downloads of the games and such, either that or any time western fan will try getting into Touhou games in chronological order, a "friend of a friend" will have to help them. If the product is limited or straight up not available anymore, it's never the fault of a consumer for taking such actions. So yeah, it's a pretty dumb situation. Even if ZUN can legally do whatever he wants with downloads of his games and even if his most loyal fans will blindly agree with how he handled that, like we've seen already, I'm still pretty disappointed by all of this. It's like EA/Ubisoft/Nintendo baby's first legal case. 1) Release content only in specific region or for limited time. 2) Make only fraction of said content available everywhere else 3) Take down downloads that share all of your content, including region or time exclusive content 4) blame it on pirating despite it all starting from your own mistake or from being in gray legal zone to begin with (PC-98 games).
You can disagree with me of course, but by saying archivization and preservation of content isn't an issue here you're making as much sense as the spambot above me does.
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Did they ban or ridicule you in the past or something? Because, boy, ironically enough I can't get through a paragraph of yours without getting a massive feeling of the sense of entitlement you've mentioned.
I don't have enough question marks on my keyboard to properly respond to this.
Regardless, since when did playing every game in a series become a dire, pressing need anyway? Is it seriously going to harm or hinder your perception of Reimu because you never got to feel how she controls in HRtP?
ZUN obviously isn't going to hunt down and root out everywhere these downloads are available. If you want to go through the effort to do so, knock yourself out. But he is 100% justified in taking out public repositories of his past works. "Baby's first legal case" is overly reductive too, especially since unlike any of those companies you mentioned, Team Shanghai Alice has one core member and a handful of helpers. If ZUN hasn't even hired a translator to make an official English version, what makes you think he would go through the effort of porting PC-98 games to modern systems, especially when that effort could go towards making a brand-new game?
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I don't have enough question marks on my keyboard to properly respond to this.
Regardless, since when did playing every game in a series become a dire, pressing need anyway? Is it seriously going to harm or hinder your perception of Reimu because you never got to feel how she controls in HRtP?
ZUN obviously isn't going to hunt down and root out everywhere these downloads are available. If you want to go through the effort to do so, knock yourself out. But he is 100% justified in taking out public repositories of his past works. "Baby's first legal case" is overly reductive too, especially since unlike any of those companies you mentioned, Team Shanghai Alice has one core member and a handful of helpers. If ZUN hasn't even hired a translator to make an official English version, what makes you think he would go through the effort of porting PC-98 games to modern systems, especially when that effort could go towards making a brand-new game?
I am somewhat puzzled by this as well, so thanks for jumping in.
@Popcioslav - Nope, next to the aforementioned brief stint on the Wiki, this is pretty much the only Touhou community I've ever been part of. I simply haven't touched unauthorized downloads in about 12 years or so for various personal reasons, that's all there is to my view on the matter.
I am not sure exactly how my view on this makes you think I feel entitled here unless expecting people to pay for stuff somehow equals a sense of entitlement, but I don't want to rule out that I'm missing something here, so if you care to elaborate on that, please feel free to do so.
Regarding the other points - don't want to go into details since it's somewhat unclear, but you're exclusively referring to PC-98 titles, right? All other titles are widely available, half of them even on Steam. While the other ones are limited to physical releases, they are among the most widely available items on second-hand stores and get regular rereleases. Unless, of course, those sites are right in assuming that not liking the channels through which a specific item has been made available somehow grants everyone who does not like those specific channels a carte blanche to just download it for free (next to those who wouldn't pay money for it in the first place), because that's one of the things that will inevitably occur when those sites continue their noble quest to "preserve and archive" even the games that are available.
However, I'd like to ask you to reread my post - I did not say that preserving and archiving isn't important at all. My point is that such an effort takes one or two people at most - make an effort to have it saved somewhere safe, even in a cloud, and it's preserved and won't be lost unless something goes horribly wrong.
Judging from your post, the only way to preserve these older games is to keep circulating them, which in theory, may be a valid approach, but in practice, again, inevitably leads to the side effect of basically providing the game for free to just about everyone out there. If there were some kind of middle ground here, I definitely agree that it would be great, but the way I see it, you can either support the content creator and ask yourself why you absolutely need to play that game and choose not to, as N-Forza has pointed out, or assume it is your right to have that game and play it, and essentially slap the creator in the face by doing so.
It's not that I don't understand the desire to play those games, it's just that I don't understand being willing to pay that price (or rather, having the content creator pay it).
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Mind you it has almost become a tradition that most Touhou players "try it, before they buy it" since steam releases always come second after the disk releases, people want to be the first to post strats, clears, flex about their abilities and such, do you want to go against them too? Again, you can fight it, more power to you, but seeing as we're talking about dedicated players who were playing these games for longer than most people on this forum lived (probably me included), it's one futile battle that will in the end only hurt the consumers and fans.
Do you really want to report every single video clearly made by western player before the next game's steam version releases? Have fun, it's the "right thing to do", after all.
Regardless, since when did playing every game in a series become a dire, pressing need anyway? Is it seriously going to harm or hinder your perception of Reimu because you never got to feel how she controls in HRtP?
There are people who liked PC-98 too games you know. It's a small percentage, they're usually retro players, but I know them. By shutting down every easy access to these games you're still not making it easier for other people to get into this series.
If ZUN hasn't even hired a translator to make an official English version, what makes you think he would go through the effort of porting PC-98 games to modern systems, especially when that effort could go towards making a brand-new game?
Nothing made me think that, you're projecting now.
In fact, you just helped my argument: ZUN doesn't even bother hiring translator for official versions, ergo things like circulating PC98 games and print works for translations should be okay.
Regarding the other points - don't want to go into details since it's somewhat unclear, but you're exclusively referring to PC-98 titles, right?
No.
However, I'd like to ask you to reread my post
God, no. Not again.
Look, maybe to you it's normal to call other people "dirtbags" and saying it's "a good riddance" or "it took long enough" to remove their stuff despite it being fine for years, while also saying hoping Tasofro and ZUN should go after redistributed prints, because it's justified by the fact they've reposted other people's work for free. But once again, most of the translations of prints/manga (if that's what you meant by print works) is taken from either pirated or redistributed copy, meaning most western fans won't be able to experience it without pirating it or without something you deem as irredeemable. Similarly, we wouldn't have most of the translations, mods or works made from technically pirated copies of either games or anything else Touhou is famous for.
In my opinion despite writing walls of text, most of your comments and posts about this matter lack depth or legitimate arguments and there could twice less of them without anything of value being lost. Personally I feel your posts on this matter either feel passive agressive (at least only to me it sounds like that with 'dirtbag' insults, but since N-Forza and probably others don't see it, then okay, don't mind that point), are contradictory (I've used PC98 games as a point for archivization seeing as they were also taken down, despite not being really available. Same could be said for print work translations since like N-Forza said, they will never be officially translated) or are despite the length, they don't add anything of substance to the discussion or helping it. They just feel like ZUN's bootlicker buzzwords to me, thus why I made the previous comment.
I will give you that at least your last post is totally different from the previous ones in anything but length (but hey, I also like writing too much as you might've noticed). However I'm not sure it's because you've doubled down on your points or because you're just stubbornly not getting my point and saying it's me who needs to reread your posts, because there's no way you can be wrong.
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Mind you it has almost become a tradition that most Touhou players "try it, before they buy it" since steam releases always come second after the disk releases, people want to be the first to post strats, clears, flex about their abilities and such, do you want to go against them too? Again, you can fight it, more power to you, but seeing as we're talking about dedicated players who were playing these games for longer than most people on this forum lived (probably me included), it's one futile battle that will in the end only hurt the consumers and fans.
Do you really want to report every single video clearly made by western player before the next game's steam version releases? Have fun, it's the "right thing to do", after all.
Just quoting this one separately - you do realize there are imports, right? That's part of the reason this forum's approach to don't ask, don't tell has worked so well.
There are people who liked PC-98 too games you know. It's a small percentage, they're usually retro players, but I know them. By shutting down every easy access to these games you're still not making it easier for other people to get into this series. Nothing made me think that, you're projecting now.
In fact, you just helped my argument: ZUN doesn't even bother hiring translator for official versions, ergo things like circulating PC98 games and print works for translations should be okay.
No.God, no. Not again.
Look, maybe to you it's normal to call other people "dirtbags" and saying it's "a good riddance" or "it took long enough" to remove their stuff despite it being fine for years, while also saying hoping Tasofro and ZUN should go after redistributed prints, because it's justified by the fact they've reposted other people's work for free. But once again, most of the translations of prints/manga (if that's what you meant by print works) is taken from either pirated or redistributed copy, meaning most western fans won't be able to experience it without pirating it or without something you deem as irredeemable. Similarly, we wouldn't have most of the translations, mods or works made from technically pirated copies of either games or anything else Touhou is famous for.
In my opinion despite writing walls of text, most of your comments and posts about this matter lack depth or legitimate arguments and there could twice less of them without anything of value being lost. Personally I feel your posts on this matter either feel passive agressive (at least only to me it sounds like that with 'dirtbag' insults, but since N-Forza and probably others don't see it, then okay, don't mind that point), are contradictory (I've used PC98 games as a point for archivization seeing as they were also taken down, despite not being really available. Same could be said for print work translations since like N-Forza said, they will never be officially translated) or are despite the length, they don't add anything of substance to the discussion or helping it. They just feel like ZUN's bootlicker buzzwords to me, thus why I made the previous comment.
I will give you that at least your last post is totally different from the previous ones in anything but length (but hey, I also like writing too much as you might've noticed). However I'm not sure it's because you've doubled down on your points or because you're just stubbornly not getting my point and saying it's me who needs to reread your posts, because there's no way you can be wrong.
As for the rest - yes, I stand by calling people who look for loopholes around DMCAs dirtbags. Likewise, I don't like the thought of anyone who goes against a content creator's explicit wishes going around calling themselves fans.
That, however, does not mean I do not realize there is more depth to piracy than just people wanting stuff for free - factors such as lack of translations (or income even) play a role, absolutely, but the bottom line is, again, why you perceive your need to have free access to the games and other media more important than the content creator's right to not have his works distributed for free, which does seem to be the case since you pointed out you weren't referring only to PC-98 titles. Perhaps he should have cracked down on it earlier, but is it really required for someone to openly state that (in addition to the remarks on reproduction etc. on every game, but I guess those don't count?)? And, let's be honest - would the western community have cared? Apparently not, since those were there already.
As I said, I really don't like many of the stunts some content creators pull, and that goes thrice for Japanese ones. Store-specific extras, event-only releases, console-exclusive characters, bad ethics; you bet I am absolutely not sure if I like them. But at the end of the day, that means I either like their content enough to get it anyway or I simply do not get the games/media, simple as that. And the same goes for print releases released in languages I don't understand. Regarding Touhou, I guess I may be fortunate enough to not require translations, but for other media, that means I don't read them, end of story.
With Touhou, the problem is that large parts of the western fanbase basically sustain themselves on piracy - without it, there's no fandom there (emphasis on the location), and due to that, it is deeply engrained. In consideration of that, I admit that some backlash is to be expected and yeah, it would be great if ZUN came out of the woodworks saying that he's recognizing western demand and releasing more works in English etc., but that is up to him. The fanbase is in no position to make demands and in no position to complain if he uses his rights as content creator to actively go after sites providing copies of his works without authorization to do so.
If you want to imply he does not have that right, as your first post kind of implies, feel free to just say so since we could at least agree to disagree based on that. I don't necessarily like ZUN, but I at least respect him enough as content creator to not go against his specific wishes, so if that's not the case for you, that's fine, but at that point, I'm still wondering where the sense of entitlement you tried to turn on me came from.
On the other hand, if that's not what you're implying, then I'm starting to lose track of where you're going with this, to be honest, seeing how you referred mostly to archiving at first while also saying that consumers are not possibly wrong since they have somehow lost access to Touhou even though much of the catalogue is available on Steam, thus serving as the introduction you said they have somehow lost. Following that, you deemed piracy of available titles legitimate as well, so it's both about archiving and free access to games for everyone? Unless, at this point, you're simply taking issue with my taking issue with the western community complaining about the DMCAs, in which case let's just leave it at that since this probably won't go anywhere for the reasons outlined above. Of course, I could just be misunderstanding you entirely in which case I apologize, but it it feels like you're arguing three escalating points but somehow, the consumer is never wrong despite blatantly disregarding the wishes and explicit instructions of the content creator they supposedly revere.
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all of the official games are back on moriyashrine as torrents, so they're there to stay. /thread i guess? at the very least, both positions can now argue about piracy in a vacuum as the whole dmca thing proved fairly inconsequential for the site.
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all of the official games are back on moriyashrine as torrents, so they're there to stay. /thread i guess? at the very least, both positions can now argue about piracy in a vacuum as the whole dmca thing proved fairly inconsequential for the site.
To be fair, it was obvious this would have no lasting effect, though it would have been a surprisingly touching act by the western community. On the other hand, they've made abundantly it clear they don't care about the rights of the content creators they supposedly like, so at least that part no longer has a question mark.
Anyway, there's no stopping piracy, so endlessly going on arguing about it is not the best use of time, I already did that ten years ago in this very same place, so I'm not overly keen on going for another round. Primarily, the issue here was to what extent they considered themselves victims, as exemplified by their circumventing those specific measures taken against them, and, of course, the fact that they seem to consider (free) access to the games their god-given right while quoting greater causes and purposes and disregarding the rights of content creators. There are cases in which I'd turn a blind eye towards piracy, but the scale on which those guys are doing it is right out of the window from the start, especially when considering the audacity with which they are going at it.
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but it it feels like you're arguing three escalating points but somehow, the consumer is never wrong despite blatantly disregarding the wishes and explicit instructions of the content creator they supposedly revere.
>I've used PC-98 games as just one example
>"So your whole argument is about PC-98 games?"
>"No, it's just one of the examples showcasing how consumers or any fans are in the much worse position here and while I don't expect ZUN to be okay with people pirating or emulating his games, again, there are both game studios and massive corporations who are no okay with that and it's reflected in their public image, it's not like there are japanese or indie devs who are okay with that. Oh wait, they are."
>"It feels like you're arguing three escalating points but somehow, the consumer is never wrong despite blatantly disregarding the wishes and explicit instructions of the content creator they supposedly revere."
https://youtu.be/zmYvjt5lGX0 (https://youtu.be/zmYvjt5lGX0)
Primarily, the issue here was to what extent they considered themselves victims, as exemplified by their circumventing those specific measures taken against them, and, of course, the fact that they seem to consider (free) access to the games their god-given right while quoting greater causes and purposes and disregarding the rights of content creators.
No, they weren't, unless just letting people know they got DMCA'd and saying initially they didn't know if it was because some random kept reporting them means playing a victim card.
There are cases in which I'd turn a blind eye towards piracy, but the scale on which those guys are doing it is right out of the window from the start, especially when considering the audacity with which they are going at it.
What a hero you are.
all of the official games are back on moriyashrine as torrents, so they're there to stay. /thread i guess? at the very least, both positions can now argue about piracy in a vacuum as the whole dmca thing proved fairly inconsequential for the site.
I'll pass because this conversation has become more pointless than a bloody circle, but thanks for letting us know.
I'm done :meiling: