Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Topic started by: NekoNekoRex on May 29, 2020, 01:39:24 AM

Title: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 29, 2020, 01:39:24 AM
Neo DEFCON Mafia
"It is 100 Seconds to Midnight."

In AD 2020, war was beginning.

Still Alive
-1. Nobody.

Wiped off the face of the Earth
12. Abu, American Aircraft Carrier was lynched in DEFCON 3
4. zwerdjib, American Airbase was lynched in DEFCON 2
3. Beru, Russian Missile Silo was nightkilled in DEFCON 2
7. Yaersulf, American Espionage suicided in DEFCON 1
5. nucleuswaffles, American Missile Silo suicided in DEFCON 1
6. Dormio, Russian Missile Silo suicided in DEFCON 1
0. No-Lynch-tan, British Missile Silo was lynched in DEFCON 1
9. Meow56, American Fighter was nightkilled in DEFCON 1
2. Daiya, American Submarine was nightkilled in DEFCON 1
11. Chihiro Fujisaki Zoomy Tsugumi, American Eavesdrop suicided in DEFCON 1
5. nucleuswaffles, Frenchman was modkilled in DEFCON 1
0. No-Lynch-tan, British Missile Silo was lynched again in DEFCON 1
1. Serela, Russian Silo was nightkilled in Endgame
8. Bardiche, North Korean Failsafe was nightkilled in Endgame
10. Raikaria, American Battleship was nuked by a Failsafe in Endgame.

Useful Links
DEFCON 5 Begins (two posts below)
DEFCON 4 Begins (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7534#msg7534)
DEFCON 3 Begins (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7593#msg7593)
Abu is lynched. Night phase begins. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7938#msg7938)
DEFCON 2 Begins
zwerdjib is lynched. Night phase begins.
DEFCON 1 Begins
Yaersulf commits suicide to avoid a nuke.
NucleusWaffles commits suicide to avoid a nuke.
Dormio commits suicide to avoid a nuke.
No-Lynch-tan is lynched. Night Phase begins.
DEFCON 1 Continues
Zoomy commits suicide to avoid a nuke.
No-Lynch-tan is lynched. Night Phase begins.
Conclusion of Neo DEFCON Mafia.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 29, 2020, 02:09:14 AM
General Rules
-No Outside Contact. Keep posts contained to the game thread or sanctioned discussion.
-You must use ##Vote to vote and ##Unvote to unvote. An unvote is not required to switch votes. A change in vote will still count of the intent is clear.
-Lynch occurs at majority. No majority = NO LYNCH. You may also ##Vote: No Lynch to end the day early without a lynch.
-No editing posts
-No posting in the game at night.
-You may continue to post between a Hammer and when a mod reaches the thread, but game actions will not be counted.
-Do not quote mod communication unless specified. You may paraphrase. Ask for clarification if you are unsure.
-Do not post in the thread after you have been removed.
-You must post at least once every 24 hours during day phases. Failure to post will result in a prod from the moderator.
-Players should make an effort to post and not lurk. Players intentionally skirting the 24 hour rule will still be prodded.
Failure to abide by rules may result in a modkill at moderator digression.
-Play cool.
-Play chill.
-Play to win.
-Don't be lame.

Setup Rules
The setup for this game is 8:3:1. The game is full flip - all abilities will be flipped along with alignment.

There are 8 American players.
Quote from: American Role PM
Welcome to DEFCON Mafia, [PLAYERNAME]! You are a well-established and important member of the American military. After one too many weekend games of Dota with сука being repeatedly spammed across your screen, you've concluded, deep down in your heart, that the Russians threaten the American way of life. They must be defeated at all costs, and your fellow weekend gamers agree with you!

You are aligned with the United States of America. You win if, for 48 hours, all threats to the USA have been neutralized and at least one American remains alive.

There are 3 Russian players.
Quote from: Russian Role PM
Welcome to DEFCON Mafia, [PLAYERNAME]! You are a brilliant military tactician and a high-ranking officer in the Russian Federation. You are also the nostalgic type, and you look back to the good old days when the Americans hadn't yet crashed the entire world economy with their housing bubble shenanigans. In an ideal world, the Americans would be punished for their impudence. And so, with a group of your fellow officers, you've covertly obtained some Soviet-era weaponry that can be put to good use. Justice will be served.

[PLAYERNAME] and [PLAYERNAME] are your fellow Russian colleagues. You may communicate with them at any time here: [URL]. You are reminded that communications are not always secure.

You are aligned with Russia. You win if, for 48 hours, all threats to the Russians have been neutralized and at least one Russian remains alive.

There is one Dormio North Korean player.
Quote from: Best Korean Role PM
Welcome to DEFCON Mafia, [PLAYERNAME]! Some people just want to watch the world burn. You are one of those people. What are non-aggression pacts? What are emergency hotlines? You hate the United States. You hate Russia. In fact, you're pretty sure you hate everyone. Fortunately, as a rogue military general, you have the means to clearly express your opinion by way of excessive violence.

You are aligned with only yourself. You win if everyone else has been neutralized, even if you are no longer alive.


The game has day and night phases, as well as a series of "defense readiness" stages, ranging from DEFCON 5 to DEFCON 1.
(https://i.imgur.com/rtrnLGF.png)

DEFCON 5 ☢ Normal readiness ☢  24 hours.
* Discussion and confirmation, no voting.
* Quicktopics are open.

DEFCON 4 ☢ Increased intelligence watch and strengthened security measures ☢  24 hours.
* Discussion, no voting.
* Quicktopics are open.
* Players PM me which role they want. Your choice is permanent for the entire game.

DEFCON 3 ☢ Air Force ready to mobilize ☢ 5  days or until lynch.
* Votes allowed.
* Following lynch, there is a 24 hour night phase during which players may use active abilities.
* All militaries switch to encrypted callsigns. Private communication channels are still open, but any messages sent during the day phase have a 15% chance of their contents being intercepted by Wikileaks and posted publically in the thread.

DEFCON 2 ☢ Armed Forces ready to deploy and engage ☢  5 days or until lynch.
* All non-town factions gain a factional nightkill: Stealth Bomber (@Playername)
* Everything else same as DEFCON 3.

DEFCON 1 ☢ Maximum readiness. Nuclear war is imminent ☢  5 days or until lynch.
* Nuclear launch becomes available to all players with missile silo in nuclear launch mode.
* Game cycles like this with regular day/night cycles until a wincon is reached.
* Everything else same as DEFCON 2.


Roles
During DEFCON 4, players choose the form of military they wish to deploy: a missile silo, or some other troop.
Quote from: Missile Silo
An unlimited number of players may choose missile silo. Missile Silos operate in either offensive nuclear launch mode or defensive anti-ballistic missile mode. You must choose to place your silo in one of these two modes, and during the night phase, you may change the mode your silo is deployed in by PMing the mod.

Nuclear launch mode:

As the commander of a nuclear facility, you have a nuke. In DEFCON 1, one per game day, you may attempt to kill another player by posting the command ##Nuke: [PLAYERNAME] in the thread. Nukes will take 48 hours to hit their target. You may post Abort Nuclear Launch up to 24 hours after firing to cancel your nuke, but you will not be able to nuke again that game day. Nukes will continue through the night and irregardless of whether the nuker is dead or alive. Note that nukes cannot be cancelled at night as the thread will be locked.

Anti-Ballistic missile mode:
The ABM missile systems are counter-ICBM rockets designed to shoot down incoming enemy warheads. In this mode, the first nuclear launch targeting you each day will fail.

If you are being targeted with a nuclear missile, you may post ##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death in the thread. This will cause you to commit suicide and leave the game immediately, unpreventable by any abilities.

Other roles are limited to one instance per game. If multiple players choose the same ability, the selection will be randomized via a draft system, where I will attempt to award all players their first choice, using randomization to break ties, and then attempt to award the unlucky players their second choice, etc, until everything is resolved. Players should send in a list of multiple choices ranked by preference in case they do not receive their first choice. If you do not successfully choose another role, you will default to missile silo in nuclear launch mode.

Possible non-nuclear troops:
Quote
Fighter - The fast and lightweight fighter is easily able to penetrate enemy territory, making it the perfect craft for reconnaissance. Each night, target a player. I will reveal their role to you.
Espionage - Knowing is half the battle, and when a nation needs to know, it relies on its clandestine organizations like the CIA or MI6 to get the job done. Choose a faction you are not aligned with, I will reveal to you whether target player is aligned with that faction or not.
Aircraft Carrier - The monstrous aircraft carrier is capable of parking itself just outside territorial waters, allowing it to shoot down enemy troops or ICBMs before they leave enemy territory and become a threat to the globe. All abilities activated by target player fail. The following day, all nuclear launches by target player fail.
Battleship - Mobile, hidden in the wide open sea away from population centers, capable of withstanding even the most directed air strikes, and armed with an array of incredibly powerful weapons, a battleship is one of the safest places on the planet. Each night, you may target a player. If a player would be eliminated because of a single non-nuclear activated ability, that player survives instead.
Radar - The night may be dark, but your radar screen is neon green. And it?s hard to miss stuff flashing in neon green. Each night, you may target a player. I will reveal to you any players that player targets. Note: Factional Nightkills cannot be tracked.
Submarine - Silent and deadly, a submerged nuclear submarines can survive for months without surfacing and can creep incredibly close to enemy shores without being detected. You may launch nuclear weapons as though you possessed a missile silo in nuclear launch mode without revealing yourself as the aggressor. Will scan as Missile Silo to the Fighter.
Eavesdrop - A crucial part of the Allies? success during WWII was its ability to crack into German communications. It worked then. Why wouldn?t it work now? In DEFCON 3 or below, every time a member of an opposing faction communicates with another member of its faction privately during the night, there is a 15% chance the message will be intercepted and its contents PM?d to you. During the day, this possibility increases to 30%.
Air base - Capable of deploying a wide variety of response aircraft within seconds and fortified to the brink, any infrastructure surrounding the air base becomes incredibly difficult to penetrate. You are immune to all non-nuclear activated abilities, including the factional nightkills.
Fail Safe -  Courtesy of Dr Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. If you are targeted by a player with a nuclear launch, you automatically launch a nuclear weapon targeting the player targeting you. If you are killed by the stealth bomber, you may make a single post in the thread containing only the words ##Nuke: [PLAYERNAME] up to 48 hours after your death. Your launches cannot be recalled or prevented.


FAQ:

Q: At DEFCON 4, when we choose what to deploy, will that be our only chance to deploy something during the game?
A: Yes.

Q: Can I have a missile silo and an active or passive ability? ?
A: No, you can only have one. If you receive an active or passive ability, you don?t get a silo and cannot launch nuclear weapons.

Q: How many times can I use my activated ability?
A: Activated abilities are just like standard roles from normal mafia ? you use them during the night phase and they have an unlimited number of shots (unless otherwise specified).

Q: If someone has Eavesdrop, does the +30% chance of intercepting communications get added to the +15% chance at DEFCON 3 or above?
A: The Eavesdrop calculation is made independently of the default 15% chance. So, if a message is posted during the day, there is first a 15% chance it gets posted publically, and then a 30% chance it gets sent to the player with Eavesdrop.

Q: If communications are intercepted, is the author of the communication also revealed?
A: No, only the text of the message is dropped. The author?s name will never be revealed.

Q: Does Battleship save you from a lynch?
A: No.

Q: Does the Stealth Bomber qualify as a non-nuclear strike?
A: Yes, the Stealth Bomber uses conventional weapons and is non-nuclear.

Q: Does anything ?reset? the DEFCON counts backwards?
A: No, the DEFCON level continually decreases until it hits DEFCON 1, where it will remain until the game has completed.

Q: If Town is lynched at 3p and their are nukes in the air, do the scum win automatically or do the nukes land post-lynch and then win conditions are resolved?
A: At least one member of a faction must survive for at least 48 hours after all enemy nations have been eliminated in order for that faction to win, which leaves ample time for any stray nukes in the air to land (even if their launchers are dead).

Q: What if, because of fail safe or other retaliatory nuclear launches, everyone dies?
A: North Korea wins.

Q: Will the fail safe activate on the submarine?
A: Yes.

Q: Does the radar track kills?
A: No.

Q: Can the factional nightkills be used in addition to other abilities?
A: Yes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 29, 2020, 02:29:19 AM
DEFCON 5
Confirmation and Discussion


(https://i.imgur.com/jP2i57i.png)

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Donald Trump has won re-election in a massive landslide vote. Exit polls are reporting a record voter turnout of 130%.

MOSCOW (RT) - Putin visits Canada and beats a moose to death with his bare hands. Saves an ambulance full of sick children.

PYONGYANG (Weekly World News) - Kim Jong-un finds cure the ongoing pandemic and saves the great Korean peoples. Negotiations with other world leaders for the cure underway.

DEFCON 5 begins now. Confirm in thread and make sure to make yourself familiar with the setup. All Role PMs have been sent out. The phase will last 24 hours. Discussion is open.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Serela on May 29, 2020, 02:41:43 AM
holy strawberries the game actually started
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: meow56 on May 29, 2020, 02:48:41 AM
Welp, here we go.

Absolutely nothing bad is going to happen, right guys? Right?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 02:51:58 AM
This started must faster than I expected
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Fabloo on May 29, 2020, 02:55:23 AM
I don't see why we would waste 48 hours just to vote. Fine with treating this as RVS.

##Vote: nucleuswaffles

I know you. You bring back war flashbacks.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:03:01 AM
i can confirm i am amerikanski

...i mean, american

smile
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: beru on May 29, 2020, 03:03:52 AM
confirm I guess
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:05:30 AM
wait so are we in confirmation or day phase 1

confused
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 03:06:31 AM
confirmed.

##Vote: Fabloo

big fan, your rambling's cute
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 29, 2020, 03:06:54 AM
Quote
DEFCON 5 ☢ Normal readiness ☢  24 hours.
* Discussion and confirmation, no voting.
* Quicktopics are open.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Fabloo on May 29, 2020, 03:07:35 AM
They're fake votes. I'll keep count.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:07:56 AM


nevermind i can read
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 03:09:05 AM
ah yes i was only pretending to vote
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:09:34 AM
ah yes i was only pretending to vote

as an american and avid supporter of democracy i am disappointed
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 03:11:15 AM
confirmed.

##Vote: Fabloo

big fan, your rambling's cute

So much extra effort here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 03:14:20 AM
i'm not even using 5% of my power
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: beru on May 29, 2020, 03:14:32 AM
is it bad praxis to roleplay as an American for a game of mafia if I'm actually a communist irl
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Fabloo on May 29, 2020, 03:17:41 AM
McDonald's. Freedom. Institutionalized Racism.

(https://i.imgur.com/SxMcbeK.png)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 29, 2020, 03:21:07 AM
Comrades, let's free mother Russia from the filthy capitalists!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 03:26:41 AM
i'm not even using 5% of my power

What happens when you reach 10%?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 03:27:58 AM
Comrades, let's free mother Russia from the filthy capitalists!

unacceptable
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 04:30:11 AM
What happens when you reach 10%?
might try making a read, but i won't post it...

prob heading to bed, wake me up when rvs is ov- ah, wait.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 04:44:29 AM
Not sure what to expect from this but we will see in the morning.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 29, 2020, 05:13:32 AM
Okay, confirmation and since I am American, I cannot really see a reason to pull my cards back.

I refer you the Texas Justice mafia setup for some essential reading materials, town does not need to speak 'very' much to win this setup.


https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Texas_Justice_Mafia

Basically, DEFCON is close to a variation of this broken setup of Texas Justice Mafia, which the ideal break is by players choosing another random pair to shoot at each other.

This gives the break a 70% probability of success.


In DEFCON, we have 4 scum + third party to weed out, we should go full offensive and off whoever is more wordy.

Play systemically and we should win this setup.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 29, 2020, 05:26:39 AM
Again, numbers are town's strongest advantage is this setup, even if all the scum + tp know and pick the defensive silo in anticipation of us all picking offensive, they have no way of stopping us from doing exactly what the package says on the tin.

Pick offense, nuke people in pairs, end game with 70% winning.

Thats the minimum fun option.

To further minimise the fun, I have already generated a RNG playerlist based on random.org results.
[attachment=1]

This is based on a random number generator set for 100 integers rolled between 1 and 12, there are repeat numbers, so this is how I advise we nuke each other.

7>4>12>11>10>6>8>9>3>1>5>2>7

In playername format, this would mean;
Yaersulf nukes zwerdijib
zwerdijib nukes Abu
Abu nukes ChihiroFujisaki
ChihiroFujisaki nukes raikaria
raikaria nukes Fabloo
Fabloo nukes Bardiche
Bardiche nukes Meow56
Meow56 nukes Beru
Beru nukes Serela
Serela nukes nucleuswaffles
nucleuswaffles nukes Daiya
Daiya nukes Yaersulf

Things never go perfectly, but this is the open plan which I propose.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 29, 2020, 05:31:46 AM
The sweetest bait of this game is the abilities, there can only be ONE unique ability per game, and as town we are already on information asymmetry, scum is coordinating and will be exerting control in our drafting.

The best control we can exert is by solidarity and democracy, literally turn this into a vanilla game (until DEFCON1) and lynch non-cooperatives down the drain.

This is a battle of charisma, remember no matter how much fun we have, scum is scum and out there to win for scum.

We can talk to scum however much we want, but always keep the silo and launch it as planned.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Serela on May 29, 2020, 06:12:48 AM
One of the flaws in that plan is that the scum can -also- vig the townies in addition to nightkilling them. If you don't successfully vig every non-town player then town loses immediately  :sweat:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: beru on May 29, 2020, 07:45:43 AM
so nucleus is North Korea, got it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Bardiche on May 29, 2020, 10:06:47 AM
Confirmed.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 29, 2020, 11:43:51 AM
Muh Freedoms, 'Murica, GUNS. Uh, apple pie, sticks of butter, poor workers rights, obese people on mobility scooters fighting in walmart. Pretty sure I got most things covered.

Also confirmed.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 29, 2020, 11:55:38 AM
I don't want to read ;-;
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 29, 2020, 11:56:46 AM
so nucleus is North Korea, got it
Why do you think so?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 02:55:27 PM
refresh

refresh again

refresh a third time

i dont wanna mechanically break this setup tbh

if you want to call that alignment indicative thats fine

but i think itd be more fun if we overall played this like a normal game. its less fun to investigate a hivemind than it is to investigate human behaviors.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
The sweetest bait of this game is the abilities, there can only be ONE unique ability per game, and as town we are already on information asymmetry, scum is coordinating and will be exerting control in our drafting.

The best control we can exert is by solidarity and democracy, literally turn this into a vanilla game (until DEFCON1) and lynch non-cooperatives down the drain.

This is a battle of charisma, remember no matter how much fun we have, scum is scum and out there to win for scum.

We can talk to scum however much we want, but always keep the silo and launch it as planned.

Whats to stop them from blasting us while we are blasting them? They're the ones informed for the most part while we still need to accurately guess every mafia without killing town in the process
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 02:58:44 PM
refresh

refresh again

refresh a third time

i dont wanna mechanically break this setup tbh

if you want to call that alignment indicative thats fine

but i think itd be more fun if we overall played this like a normal game. its less fun to investigate a hivemind than it is to investigate human behaviors.

I kinda agree, breaking a setup is no fun even if you win.

Why do you think so?

I want the answer to this as well
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 29, 2020, 03:16:43 PM
Mafia as a whole is not fun, so let's just go with Waffles' plan, and get this game over with.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 03:21:16 PM
Mafia as a whole is not fun, so let's just go with Waffles' plan, and get this game over with.

See, the problem with that is I want to win, not play a gambit that could cause town to lose.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:26:43 PM
Mafia as a whole is not fun, so let's just go with Waffles' plan, and get this game over with.

did you join...

...because youre a masochist?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 03:28:39 PM
did you join...

...because youre a masochist?

Can I step on him?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:42:38 PM
Can I step on him?

well now i know youre an alt
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 29, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
well now i know youre an alt
It's Chad.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 03:49:33 PM
refresh

refresh again

refresh a third time

i dont wanna mechanically break this setup tbh

if you want to call that alignment indicative thats fine

but i think itd be more fun if we overall played this like a normal game. its less fun to investigate a hivemind than it is to investigate human behaviors.
i consider it a null tbh, much like meta debates. same goes for the big nuke, seems like the kinda guy to pull gambits on either alignment atp

pretty much agree with this. normal maf's the way to go, as normal as this site can get at least
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 03:52:46 PM
It's Chad.

ah, of course hes chihiro
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 04:00:54 PM
ah, of course hes chihiro

boooo, why do people have to ruin my fun
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 29, 2020, 04:30:57 PM
So if we're not even voting yet, what exactly are we supposed to discuss? Is this just temporarily strawberriespost central?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 04:40:18 PM
ah, of course hes chihiro

Chihiro is a cutie, I adore the character so much.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
So if we're not even voting yet, what exactly are we supposed to discuss? Is this just temporarily strawberriespost central?

It seems so
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 05:49:38 PM
nnr is leaving us here to create memes for his amusement, obviously
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Daiya on May 29, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
Chihiro is a cutie, I adore the character so much.
it def suits you

does seem like there won't be much to do. kinda bored
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: beru on May 29, 2020, 07:20:29 PM
Why do you think so?

his plan ends with everyone dead?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 29, 2020, 07:44:32 PM
his plan ends with everyone dead?

get a pfp you heretic :eyes:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 29, 2020, 07:51:58 PM
it def suits you

does seem like there won't be much to do. kinda bored

So sweet :D
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: beru on May 29, 2020, 09:24:12 PM
get a pfp you heretic :eyes:

I didn't even know this forum had pfps I'm on mobile
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Fabloo on May 29, 2020, 11:25:08 PM
I saw about three or four people agree that we should play this like normal. Then nothing happened.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Fabloo on May 29, 2020, 11:30:32 PM
Despite that I can't commit my time to this game like I want to.

Replace me[b/]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 30, 2020, 12:12:05 AM
Effective immediately, Dormio replaces Fabloo.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 30, 2020, 12:18:15 AM
I hate mafia.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 30, 2020, 12:27:07 AM
I wanna play it like a normal mafia game but I can't make others do the same \ o /
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 30, 2020, 01:14:04 AM
Anyway, the nuke everything option is stupid because there are so many different points of failure we shouldn't be wasting time on trying to discuss it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 30, 2020, 01:17:48 AM
So, what do we do? Lynch Waffles for offering such a bad plan?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 30, 2020, 01:42:15 AM
Play the game and vote for whoever you think is scummy?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Abu on May 30, 2020, 01:54:28 AM
No one is being scummy :<
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 30, 2020, 02:06:18 AM
Can we even lynch normally? I thought there was no normal lynch on defcon 5 or was i wrong.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 30, 2020, 02:20:12 AM
DEFCON 4
Role Selection and Discussion


(https://i.imgur.com/lUYsH4e.png)

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) - Congress launches investigation after an FBI report reveals voter fraud scheme consisting of 100 million votes registered to "Vladmir Putin" across the United States. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated "This is proof of a Russian-backed collusion to destroy the democracy of the United States of America."

It is now DEFCON 4. Players have roughly 24 hours to submit their deployment preferences via PM. If you do not submit by this time, a Missile Silo in Nuclear Launch Mode will automatically be deployed for you.

It is recommended you submit a list, in order of preference, if you do not already wish to be a Missile Silo.

Discussion remains open.

Raikaria has been prodded to confirm their role PM.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 30, 2020, 02:46:47 AM
I am just gonna draft the roles i find more useful for me to catch mafia with.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 30, 2020, 02:58:01 AM
Remember, Dormio is a very strong player pulling off consistent wins as scum/sk.

He even won the last iteration of this game, beating ActionDan (Scum) and convincing town (Kingmaker) to permit his victory.

He also has a really strong emotional game in making his plans go through, this reaction likely means it is working, choose missle silo offensive, ignore the noise.

I refer you to reference material about Dormio the strong player since at least 2013;

1) Tic Tac Toe mafia, Dormio wins and survives to last day as town, another drafting ability-centric mafia
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16951.0.html

2) Justice Juice mafia, Dormio wins and survives to last day as scum
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15871.0.html

2) Draft Mafia, Dormio drafts JoaT, wins but is lynched D1

Trusting fellow human beings is not stupid, trust is the foundation to hope.

However, trusting Dormio in a draft mafia would require overlooking many, many leaps of logic.

Be town and stand proud with solidarity, offensive missle silo + votes would steamroll the setup.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 30, 2020, 03:05:40 AM
We can put up as much smokescreen as we want as town at this point, vote missle silo (vig) for the win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 30, 2020, 03:35:47 AM
Anyway.

##Vote: Chihiro Fujisaki

Pick a real, non-garbage character kthx.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 30, 2020, 03:37:20 AM
Oh, you still can't vote in DEFCON 4. I hate this game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 30, 2020, 03:56:46 AM
Anyway.

##Vote: Chihiro Fujisaki

Pick a real, non-garbage character kthx.

Rude
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Serela on May 30, 2020, 04:23:58 AM
Still can't vote? OK GIMME MY NUKE I WANNA REPEAT THAT DAY 3 MAFIA VIGGING
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 30, 2020, 05:48:28 AM
Nucleus’s “nuke everyone” plan is dumb.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: raikaria on May 30, 2020, 06:41:20 AM
Sorry for lateness, been busy IRL last few days and didn't notice the game started
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 30, 2020, 07:25:38 AM
If Nucleus is North Korea it wouldn't be the first time he gave away his alignment right off the bat.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 30, 2020, 07:31:17 AM
Frankly, I kind of want to lynch myself D1, I have not yet ever participated in a LyLo situation which is a big plus in future games as an unknown factor.

Besides, having reread Ys Mafia, I agree with Fabloo that people will have justifiably hard times trusting anything I say now, call it hangover, whatever, but I need to psychologically, prove my absolute incompetence if I am to regain town's trust.

Regardless, even as scum last game I indeed did use thorough honesty in my tactics, and making this game into Texas Justice mafia is objectively deterimental to scum and third party.





Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 30, 2020, 07:43:05 AM
Additional reading materials on mafiascum's attempt to balance Texas' Justice:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Texas_Justice_Alternatives


Point, the best balance methods only come from giving scum more shots, or limited town's vig shots capabilities by making them odd/even nights.

We should not neuter our own abilities, refuse to take the bait and grab the plain ol' effective gun.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 30, 2020, 09:28:56 AM
The optimal break for town is to NL twice after we wait out DEFCON4, and let the nukes fly.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 30, 2020, 12:04:01 PM
Still can't vote? OK GIMME MY NUKE I WANNA REPEAT THAT DAY 3 MAFIA VIGGING

i wanna see this happen
Nucleus’s “nuke everyone” plan is dumb.

Atleast they have a plan lol

If Nucleus is North Korea it wouldn't be the first time he gave away his alignment right off the bat.
Frankly, I kind of want to lynch myself D1, I have not yet ever participated in a LyLo situation which is a big plus in future games as an unknown factor.

Besides, having reread Ys Mafia, I agree with Fabloo that people will have justifiably hard times trusting anything I say now, call it hangover, whatever, but I need to psychologically, prove my absolute incompetence if I am to regain town's trust.

Regardless, even as scum last game I indeed did use thorough honesty in my tactics, and making this game into Texas Justice mafia is objectively deterimental to scum and third party.







Reading both these posts makes me hard agree nucleus is weird
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Serela on May 30, 2020, 03:12:32 PM
Point, the best balance methods only come from giving scum more shots, or limited town's vig shots capabilities by making them odd/even nights.
You do realize that this is what this game actually is though, right? Scum can have 3 nukes just like town, and then the 'game cheese' method doesn't work anymore because if you miss a SINGLE scum or ITP with town nukes, town instantly loses.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: meow56 on May 30, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
making this game into Texas Justice mafia is objectively deterimental to scum and third party.

Quote from: North Korea Role PM
You win if everyone else has been neutralized, even if you are no longer alive.

How is nuking everybody detrimental to North Korea again?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 5)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 03:54:04 PM
I hate mafia.

yay hes here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 03:54:52 PM
Nucleus’s “nuke everyone” plan is dumb.

this
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 03:58:37 PM
also, i suggest not picking up a fail safe

it seems pretty neg util

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:00:08 PM
im gonna go for air base, espionage, carrier or battleship

they all seem like very useful roles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:07:17 PM
everyones gonna pick up eavesdrop

submarine is... situationally pro town but usually anti town

fighter is also something everyone will pick up probably

radar seems soo... mediocre

thats my thoughts on every role
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:09:21 PM
i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:11:17 PM
and im locking myself as town; i expect you to do the same, reader

if i die n1 dont be surprised

and if i dont, ive probably gotten the air base ive wanted
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:17:52 PM
im done posting. sorry, still not used to the "all in one post" ideology you guys preach.

heres a song as compensation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSQwI3rDETk)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: raikaria on May 30, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
everyones gonna pick up eavesdrop

I haven't put it on my list; partially because of timezones. I'll probobly get all the info like 6 hours after it's any use.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 04:34:35 PM
I haven't put it on my list; partially because of timezones. I'll probobly get all the info like 6 hours after it's any use.

probably*

and i forgot you were even itg so good job
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 30, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
haven't read through the original defcon yet, but i do find myself doubting the usefulness of the eavesdropper. it sounds cool and op on paper (in mons, 30% is practically guaranteed), but with its presence itg already known, I feel like it could be used by the scumteam to spread disinformation.

otherwise, i trust all of you not to go for the mass vigging strat. having some on-hand could be useful, but the info roles should take prio. will i go for them myself? who knows.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 30, 2020, 05:22:48 PM
i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig
zizi, this kinda reminds me of greater idea. right?? but with both the offensive and defensive nuke being viable claims here, idt a massclaim would really help
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 30, 2020, 05:23:46 PM
and im locking myself as town; i expect you to do the same, reader

if i die n1 dont be surprised

and if i dont, ive probably gotten the air base ive wanted


Instinctively hate people who claim what they are doing is Town, and claiming they will be the NK.


Would nuke/10
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 30, 2020, 05:29:59 PM
ah and nucleus throwing shade on dormio like that is kinda weird. but last game he had a habit of buttering people up, so i'm not as sus of him as i should be considering how anti-town his plan is. think he's worth keeping an eye on regardless
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 05:39:32 PM
zizi, this kinda reminds me of greater idea. right?? but with both the offensive and defensive nuke being viable claims here, idt a massclaim would really help

if we expect the minimum amount of honest answers (8)

we already know over half the setup

this is pretty simple

theres no reason to not do it tbh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 05:41:59 PM
if we expect the minimum amount of honest answers (8)

we already know over half the setup

this is pretty simple

theres no reason to not do it tbh

i mean, yeah, you cant tell whos being honest

but thats what people dying is for
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 06:06:01 PM

Instinctively hate people who claim what they are doing is Town, and claiming they will be the NK.


Would nuke/10

lets hope i dont get the aircraft carrier i want then, yeah?

heh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 30, 2020, 09:22:20 PM
we cant vote so pretend im voting dormio right now
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 12:36:46 AM
wow yall are boring
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 31, 2020, 01:15:03 AM
Zeep you can be town after all those posts, though the eimm side of me just wants to blast you for the hell of it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 01:17:10 AM
Scumreads, zwerdijib Chihiro Yaersulf

Serial killer, Domio, always Dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 31, 2020, 02:07:48 AM
Could you not spell the name wrong -.-
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 02:39:48 AM
Zeep you can be town after all those posts, though the eimm side of me just wants to blast you for the hell of it.

sou desu ka?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Abu on May 31, 2020, 03:04:27 AM
Has it not been 24 hours, where's DEFCON 3?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Chihiro Fujisaki on May 31, 2020, 03:17:54 AM
sou desu ka?

I may be a weeb but I don't speak it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 03:34:41 AM
Has it not been 24 hours, where's DEFCON 3?

nnr is probably not awake or at work fwict
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 31, 2020, 06:37:28 AM
sorry I've been pretty busy with something, the update will be a bit, I need to sort out role selection
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 31, 2020, 07:31:13 AM
wow yall are boring


At least this time I get to threaten whoever I don't like with nukes.


Mmm, nukes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 31, 2020, 08:05:26 AM
DEFCON 3
Lynch Phase 1


(https://i.imgur.com/0H87yb2.png)

Quote
PYONGYANG (Weekly World News) - Kim Jong-un singlehandedly conquers the Moon.

All players have deployed their drafted role. If you have not received a role, please contact me privately.
Nuclear attacks are NOT authorized.

It is now the first round of voting to decide which player will be conventionally bombed.
You have a bit less than 5 days to decide on a lynch. With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 31, 2020, 08:25:49 AM
Pick a real, non-garbage character kthx.
##Vote: Chihiro Fujisaki
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 09:03:26 AM
Nice play Dorms, I am not sure who to actually lynch first now.

##Vote Dormio

You are too dangerous to keep around.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 31, 2020, 09:34:01 AM
For being the only person that's actually done anything that could be contstrued as suspicious:

##Vote: NucleusWaffles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 11:57:39 AM
I am going to case for a Dormio lynch.

My biblography consisted of mafiascum wiki, mafiascum general game format (Little Italy, Road to Rome), stance on Hydras (introduction of anoynimity), and Grey Labyrinth, as well as derivative games like Town of Salem (with high power roles such as Jesters, Coven).

And of course, past MotK games.

My theory to lynch Dormio is based on the hypothesis that MotK with a unique, identifiable community of personas polarise win-lose ratio towards scum.

There is a positive sentiment regarding to lose in a funny way. 'Serela in Lylo' is a highly recognisable meme.
 'Sky_P walls' is again very entertaining.

In particular, new players joining with an alias is fondly regarded, examples such as Cheez8, myself, are encouraged to perform and participate as much as possible, civilly.

To achieve a higher win percentage for town, again, based on the past track record of Dormio, I would dare suggest Dormio is a player whose survival bias towards 'scum winning'.

I dare cite Conqueror's words on a separate occassion in a postgame debacle, paraphrased, roughly meaning
"Player skill is not relevant to winning the game, a player can have 100% accurate scumreads but still be lynched before that information becomes useful. Otherwise, a player who is always lynched early can be associated with winning games due to the information provided from their flip."

Off memory, this argument was with ActionDan.

In summary, lynch Dormio.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 12:11:36 PM
Footnote, Shadoweh, another highly acclaimed, long-time player exclaimed before to Serela in one post-game exchange.

I paraphrase roughly the intent being;
'How can you manage not to lynch Dormio at Lylo omg'

Whether in jest or in seriousness, I agree that while Serela is usually a conduit for a scumsided Lylo, Dormio personally drives the Lylo win towards a third-party/scum win.

Even on the ocassion of the most recent Neo Forum Mafia, Dormio was mainly there to generate buzz, post funny picture of trains and watch the meltdown as town won.

I argue that Dormio, with malignant intent and in a draft-based mafia, is not conductive to the town win condition, and is determined to extort more effort from his pursuers with a willing playstyle that involves wallposting, shifting between personas, and generally survivalist mindset.


Besides, he enjoy the graveyard more anyway.

Lynch Dormio.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 31, 2020, 01:06:25 PM
##Vote: NucleasWaffles

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 31, 2020, 01:12:23 PM
Just to make it clear: Nucleus's case is borderline bullying, effectively arguing that Dormio shouldn't be allowed to be in this game on the basis of being Dormio. I've never before read such bullstrawberries.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
I have received a revelation from God, and I should lynch myself.

##Unvote
##Vote NucleusWaffles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 01:21:06 PM
Footnote, Shadoweh, another highly acclaimed, long-time player exclaimed before to Serela in one post-game exchange.

I paraphrase roughly the intent being;
'How can you manage not to lynch Dormio at Lylo omg'

Whether in jest or in seriousness, I agree that while Serela is usually a conduit for a scumsided Lylo, Dormio personally drives the Lylo win towards a third-party/scum win.

Even on the ocassion of the most recent Neo Forum Mafia, Dormio was mainly there to generate buzz, post funny picture of trains and watch the meltdown as town won.

I argue that Dormio, with malignant intent and in a draft-based mafia, is not conductive to the town win condition, and is determined to extort more effort from his pursuers with a willing playstyle that involves wallposting, shifting between personas, and generally survivalist mindset.


Besides, he enjoy the graveyard more anyway.

Lynch Dormio.

i mean, solid argument, but you need to be sure dormio is scum in the first place for any of this to be applicable
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
Just to make it clear: Nucleus's case is borderline bullying, effectively arguing that Dormio shouldn't be allowed to be in this game on the basis of being Dormio. I've never before read such bullstrawberries.

this is how meta works

see response above however
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 01:26:52 PM
do kind of see his point, but dormio hasn't done anything yet lmao. idk why he'd go after him for meta when he has three supposed scumreads
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 01:27:14 PM
Pick a real, non-garbage character kthx.
##Vote: Chihiro Fujisaki

but that aside, anything else to say about this?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 01:30:31 PM
I argue that Dormio, with malignant intent and in a draft-based mafia, is not conductive to the town win condition, and is determined to extort more effort from his pursuers with a willing playstyle that involves wallposting, shifting between personas, and generally survivalist mindset.


Besides, he enjoy the graveyard more anyway.

Lynch Dormio.
also, that's a real bold claim to make. who's to say that he can't be helpful as town?

that aside, explain your scumreads bro
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
For being the only person that's actually done anything that could be contstrued as suspicious:

##Vote: NucleusWaffles
tone's whack
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 01:42:14 PM
The current flow of the conversation can be scum-directed (coordinated intent) to create smokescreen, or genuine town interest in the turn of events.

This page is free to skip.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 31, 2020, 01:44:41 PM
Coolio.

##Unvote
##Vote: Daiya

Would like clarification with regards to the "tone's whack" comment towards Yaersulf.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 01:45:20 PM
I am functionally a town VT, I did the gambit thing, I got the desired results.

Now I simply have faith in my fellow townspersons and *~resolve~* to win this for us.

I need to flip to confirm my allegiance to town, I may be wrong, but I want to get out of this asap.

This is an open setup with no ambiguities, I refuse to be boxed in as the designated mislynch in the lategame crossfire.

Please vote me and get me out of here.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 01:57:09 PM
seems a bit more cautious than usual. that's about all there is to it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 02:27:28 PM
I am functionally a town VT, I did the gambit thing, I got the desired results.

Now I simply have faith in my fellow townspersons and *~resolve~* to win this for us.

I need to flip to confirm my allegiance to town, I may be wrong, but I want to get out of this asap.

This is an open setup with no ambiguities, I refuse to be boxed in as the designated mislynch in the lategame crossfire.

Please vote me and get me out of here.
nucleus, if you're town there's nothing to gain from getting yourself killed here. if your supposed gambit worked already, then i'd like to know what your intentions were
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 31, 2020, 02:47:55 PM
Obviously Nucleus has learned from last game that if you argue for your own lynch D1 you get to live until the end of the game. I mean, it worked for me so uh, good luck buddy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Yaersulf on May 31, 2020, 02:55:56 PM
Nucleus was your gambit to steal a role from scum that you think would be dangerous in their hands?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 03:13:54 PM
huuush. it's plausible, but don't give him any ideas
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 03:18:26 PM
This is now drama leading up to my lynch, to create spiciness and poisonous reads.

I can confirm with astute certainty I have not gambitted to steal a role from scum, and I am American with missle silo launch mode.

Please now lynch me so the rest of my teammates, whoever you are, follow the verified and true gamebreak method to win.

Barring that, please try and get as much information from my flip and the associated threads it must generate.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Bardiche on May 31, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
...sigh.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 31, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
There would be a votecount here bit I'm on my phone and clock into work in five minutes.

Remember to keep it cool and play to your wincon, generals.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 04:07:59 PM
This is now drama leading up to my lynch, to create spiciness and poisonous reads.

I can confirm with astute certainty I have not gambitted to steal a role from scum, and I am American with missle silo launch mode.

Please now lynch me so the rest of my teammates, whoever you are, follow the verified and true gamebreak method to win.

Barring that, please try and get as much information from my flip and the associated threads it must generate.

we arent going to try to break the game

stop trying to die
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: raikaria on May 31, 2020, 04:08:32 PM
Back from work.

Food things then mafia. Basically dodgeing the ol prod.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 04:12:48 PM
Back from work.

Food things then mafia. Basically dodgeing the ol prod.

no mafia THEN food
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: meow56 on May 31, 2020, 04:23:55 PM
zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?

SOU DA!

im an air base

[airplane noises]

your turn

and everyone elses turn

including raikaria

so far we have nucleus is a silo and i am an airbase
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
stop claiming, smh. not everyone's gonna agree to that

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 04:53:25 PM
stop claiming, smh. not everyone's gonna agree to that

no

##vote daiya
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: raikaria on May 31, 2020, 05:01:20 PM
Obviously Nucleus has learned from last game that if you argue for your own lynch D1 you get to live until the end of the game. I mean, it worked for me so uh, good luck buddy.

And that's how it worked for me the game before that! Although my objective was to stop the Town Vig claim getting lynched over me as a VT.

SOU DA!

im an air base

[airplane noises]

your turn

and everyone elses turn

including raikaria

so far we have nucleus is a silo and i am an airbase

I do not agree with a massclaim as soon as we get our roles. Because this obviously gives scum easy targets of power roles.

I will claim if and when I feel my claim will be more useful than denying scum knowledge.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 05:52:21 PM
did you literally just claim bulletproof when we're not even massclaiming lmao

*laughs until crying, lays on floor, sobs*

##Vote NucleusWaffles

Nucleus is kind of insane (i would know, given i was just his scumbuddy) but i'd like to think he knows better as town than to literally instantly just selfvote and invite everyone to do the same. Scum!Nucleus on the otherhand would absolutely try to copy the townclearing gambit he's seen work before.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 4)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 06:14:30 PM
i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig
if we expect the minimum amount of honest answers (8)

we already know over half the setup

this is pretty simple

theres no reason to not do it tbh

RTFT.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:25:27 PM
suggesting we should massclaim =/= people actually massclaiming

and bulletproof may as well be Vanilla Townie if you just claim it immediately, in a game where everyone is at minimum guaranteed a vig
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
also yes I'm suggesting it's probably better to like

NOT have the potential town cop and town doc claim their roles???
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on May 31, 2020, 06:27:11 PM
Hmm.

zwerdjib, if you're this adamant about doing this massclaim, why didn't you bring it up at the start of DEFCON 3?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:27:50 PM
ok there's one exception:if you got Submarine as town I think it's best to claim

half the game is probably nukes, you're just a nuke with powerful anti-town utility that's completely nullified upon claiming, and if you took it so that scum/ITP wouldn't get it, there's not much reason not to claim it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 06:28:55 PM
Hmm.

zwerdjib, if you're this adamant about doing this massclaim, why didn't you bring it up at the start of DEFCON 3?

i dont get pinged for deadlines
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on May 31, 2020, 06:34:25 PM
But you were in the thread before I was and never brought it up?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 06:36:54 PM
suggesting we should massclaim =/= people actually massclaiming

and bulletproof may as well be Vanilla Townie if you just claim it immediately, in a game where everyone is at minimum guaranteed a vig

That’s... not what I was implying.

You want to push back against a suggestion, but you don’t give reasons for it outside of the standard. This isn’t a vanilla setup.

If you want to decline the idea of a massclaim, do your own math and your own thinking and tell me why. Be reasonable. Argue. This isn’t something we should just move past. A massclaim is really beneficial here in my eyes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 06:37:40 PM
But you were in the thread before I was and never brought it up?

touche

truth is i was busy playing warthunder and listening to queen to care about the thread
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:39:46 PM
If you want to decline the idea of a massclaim, do your own math and your own thinking and tell me why. Be reasonable. Argue. This isn’t something we should just move past. A massclaim is really beneficial here in my eyes.[/color]
A.I uh, already did that :S
B.You seem to be missing the point that it's purely detrimental to claim your PR if the rest of the game doesn't actually claim with you.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 06:43:00 PM
radar, espionage, and battleship are all roles worth keeping alive. if they managed to get into the hands of townies, then massclaiming only serves to put them at risk. and yeah, deciding to massclaim before ppl actually agree to do it is silly, it benefits the mafia far more than it does town
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 06:46:49 PM
ok there's one exception:if you got Submarine as town I think it's best to claim

half the game is probably nukes, you're just a nuke with powerful anti-town utility that's completely nullified upon claiming, and if you took it so that scum/ITP wouldn't get it, there's not much reason not to claim it
does anyone else have thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:49:57 PM
does anyone else have thoughts on this?
i can imagine arguments for not claiming it as well but I think it's better to do so, i would enjoy discussion on the topic!

FWIW I placed it as my top pick purely to try to stop it from falling into the hands of non-town factions, but obviously based on a request for sub claim I did not obtain the role
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 06:56:37 PM
A.I uh, already did that :S
B.You seem to be missing the point that it's purely detrimental to claim your PR if the rest of the game doesn't actually claim with you.


A. I mean, no. I’m obviously aware of the risks a massclaim has. All you’ve done is tell me what I’ve already thought through. Clearly, I think the benefits outweigh the risks if I’m willing to suggest it despite that. Tell me why, other than because of the known risks, this is a bad idea.

B. That’s not something I can control, but it is something that should change.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 06:58:32 PM
well it's not something you can control -anymore- but in the future just make sure we're actually massclaiming before you claim
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 07:11:09 PM
what info advantage does the massclaim actually provide that offsets what our doc and cop can do? i don't think you've got your priorities straight here. sure, we'll know most of the setup. but with the inevitable pool of silo claims, we'll still be walking around blind while the mafia slowly picks off our power roles. i don't see it as a good trade at all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on May 31, 2020, 07:29:29 PM
gah, i almost forgot about nucleus. wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, but it feels like i'm making the same mistake again. could def see this as a gambit to secure an early town read, especially since it mirrors what he's seen in the games he read/participated in

##Vote: NucleusWaffles

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on May 31, 2020, 07:47:55 PM

A. I mean, no. I’m obviously aware of the risks a massclaim has. All you’ve done is tell me what I’ve already thought through. Clearly, I think the benefits outweigh the risks if I’m willing to suggest it despite that. Tell me why, other than because of the known risks, this is a bad idea.

B. That’s not something I can control, but it is something that should change.

And I think the downsides [giving mafia information about what town abilities they need to work around, as well as which targets to prioritize] are far worse than the upsides of massclaiming.

I mean, if a Town claims Battleship; they're getting nightkilled. 100%. And so on through target priority.

Also there's 9 power roles and 12 players. Unless certain power roles went unclaimed 3/4 of the playerbase have power roles of some kind, and you can be almost certain that the 4 non-town players have power roles.

Also; if people claim when they actually need to claim, such as a cornered scum, people can counter-claim them then and there. Scum can't prepare fakeclaims ahead of time based on previous PR claims.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on May 31, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Alpha

Here's my Unofficial Votals™.

NucleusWaffles (5) - Yaersulf, Bardiche, NucleusWaffles, Serela, Daiya (L-2)
Daiya (2) - Dormio, zwerdjib
Serela (0) -
Beru (0) -
zwerdjib (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Chihiro Fujisaki (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (5) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Chihiro Fujisaki, Abu

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 08:04:21 PM
And I think the downsides [giving mafia information about what town abilities they need to work around, as well as which targets to prioritize] are far worse than the upsides of massclaiming.

I mean, if a Town claims Battleship; they're getting nightkilled. 100%. And so on through target priority.

Also there's 9 power roles and 12 players. Unless certain power roles went unclaimed 3/4 of the playerbase have power roles of some kind, and you can be almost certain that the 4 non-town players have power roles.

Also; if people claim when they actually need to claim, such as a cornered scum, people can counter-claim them then and there. Scum can't prepare fakeclaims ahead of time based on previous PR claims.

see, this is how you argue

raikaria is probably town
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 08:16:28 PM
raikaria is probably town
uhm, lmao

role semantics are literally the easiest thing to discuss as scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on May 31, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Chihiro Fujisaki has requested a replacement.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 08:24:05 PM
uhm, lmao

role semantics are literally the easiest thing to discuss as scum

eh.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 08:29:25 PM
i might be talking a bit cavalier, it's really hot and i'm tired and want to eat this sandwich and spend the rest of the day in bed next to a fan, but basically yes. I usually play around role shenanigans the same regardless of alignment (unless the situation as scum makes it -very- important to desperately do otherwise) and it's very, very easy to talk roles and semantics to look like contributing scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on May 31, 2020, 09:11:53 PM
i might be talking a bit cavalier, it's really hot and i'm tired and want to eat this sandwich and spend the rest of the day in bed next to a fan, but basically yes. I usually play around role shenanigans the same regardless of alignment (unless the situation as scum makes it -very- important to desperately do otherwise) and it's very, very easy to talk roles and semantics to look like contributing scum

but does scum raikaria know this
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on May 31, 2020, 10:34:36 PM
does
scum raikaria know to not publically act anti-town???? i don't know do they


raikaria has played a lot of mafia games.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on May 31, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
Taking a page from Smartbomb's analysis, the activity flurry either means scum is uncomfortable with the gamestate, or is pursuing the gamestate intently to shape it.

I am assuming town is directionless at the moment, as only the informed minority knows about the stakes of my lynch.



Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 31, 2020, 11:52:00 PM
Even more coolio.

##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib

I don't like the attempts to push a massclaim and, as Selery mentioned, I also dislike his generating of a townread by asking Raikaria to explain basic game theory. I think that this is a really easy/lazy way of pretending to look like you're contributing to the game state without having to actually push a solid read.
On top of that, he's being contradictory as well. He votes for Daiya in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625) because Daiya states that he refuses to go along with the massclaim idea, yet in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) Raikaria is okay because he's not going along with the massclaim idea.
Like, given that Raikaria has provided you with basic game theory, has your opinion with regards to Daiya changed at all? If it has, who do you think is scum?

Also conspiracy!Dorm says that NuclearWaffles is the SK and simply being audacious, to the point where he's banking on people ignoring him for the drivel that he's spouting in order to survive.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on May 31, 2020, 11:57:23 PM
Addendum to the last paragraph: But there are enough votes there already so whatever.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 12:08:00 AM
Even more coolio.

##Unvote
##Vote: zwerdjib

I don't like the attempts to push a massclaim and, as Selery mentioned, I also dislike his generating of a townread by asking Raikaria to explain basic game theory. I think that this is a really easy/lazy way of pretending to look like you're contributing to the game state without having to actually push a solid read.
On top of that, he's being contradictory as well. He votes for Daiya in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625) because Daiya states that he refuses to go along with the massclaim idea, yet in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) Raikaria is okay because he's not going along with the massclaim idea.
Like, given that Raikaria has provided you with basic game theory, has your opinion with regards to Daiya changed at all? If it has, who do you think is scum?

Also conspiracy!Dorm says that NuclearWaffles is the SK and simply being audacious, to the point where he's banking on people ignoring him for the drivel that he's spouting in order to survive.

im going to respond to this post, but i dont think youre trying

cough

Quote
I don't like the attempts to push a massclaim

okay, devoid of any reasoning why though

Quote
and, as Selery mentioned, I also dislike his generating of a townread by asking Raikaria to explain basic game theory.

this is a meta read. alright.

to put it in the nicest way possible - i dont think raikaria says this if hes scum. here is why. i think hes too... hmm. absent-minded to think of something like this. objectively, mechanics are the easiest thing to talk about in mafia; this is true, obviously, but i dont think raikaria will comment like this for no reason.

Quote
I think that this is a really easy/lazy way of pretending to look like you're contributing to the game state without having to actually push a solid read.

sure. but thats a thought, not a fact

Quote
On top of that, he's being contradictory as well. He votes for Daiya in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625) because Daiya states that he refuses to go along with the massclaim idea, yet in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) Raikaria is okay because he's not going along with the massclaim idea.

i explained this. i wasnt going to take "no" for an answer unless someone legitimately explained why without regurgitating the usual reasons. as raikaria gave me something new to work with, im considering more what i want to do with the idea of a massclaim.

and, for the record, i still dont like how daiya is playing this game. hes too passive for my liking.

Quote
Like, given that Raikaria has provided you with basic game theory, has your opinion with regards to Daiya changed at all?

above

Quote
If it has, who do you think is scum?

sure. ill tell you now that dormio (you, but i needed a word to bold) is not looking so good fmpov.
serela is probably t.
raikaria is... on the edge because hes still not here but im willing to call him t for now.
nucleus is fire trucking wild and i can see why his mindset is probably townie ish but like. dude. thats not how the videogame works. i wanna put him in nulls, and not scumread him, because i think hes just legitimately lost.
and finally, obviously, daiya, who i really dont like (the previous vote you might call an rvs one) for reasons explained above
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:11:26 AM
Footnote, zwerdijib fishing more a massclaim reads scum to confirm the number of silos in-game.

Dormio picking it up is townish.

Serela reads town

Bardiche reads scum, very nice and kind scum, but scum.

Yaersulf reads scum, he did not votepark last game like this, and the erratic posting times is offputting

I am trying to extend my FoS to the lurkers, but with a 5-day lynch window and the plan I proposed I find it justifiably valid for townies to be disinterested until nukes fly.

cut by a zwerdijib wall, okay, now that's really scummy.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:12:03 AM
Is Dormio trolling my meta-read on him by coaching his teammates to do what he would do?!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 12:13:24 AM
I don't think that most sane people would need any reasoning on why a massclaim early Day 1 would be a bad idea in a semi-open setup with powerful roles and think that actively pushing for this is scummy.
Also, given what you've said about raikaria giving you something to think about, are you still wanting people to massclaim?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:19:20 AM
I forgot what raikaria said that I should think about.

I think the introspection is that I can't read raikaria, the giant banner is distracting and I am psychologically still in the 'He's fighting Corona, can't be evil' state.

Besides, he's not giving me too much to think about here or the last game.

In fact, its weirder why Serela would mention raikaria, the only notable merit I recall from raikaria was that he was on a winning scumteam in a 4-time-streak, and modded Urist Fortress Mafia comodded with BBM, and got into a major disagreement with Shadoweh over a blocked doc kill submission format.

Raikaria seems like a warmongering type based on his occupation (DEFEAT CORONA!) with a strong core ego, that's about what I can read.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:28:48 AM
Also, I must stress this flurry of activity is abnormal, it reflects significant interest whether townsided or scumsided to progress the game.

I see this activity spike as abnormal as scum/SK has limited control in whether people lurk or not.
From the votecounts, we can see most townsperons are not even there to vote committedly, that's a big tell and normal mentality with a 5-day lynch window.

Therefore, I interpret this spike of activity meaning a significant interesting event has occured behind the scenes, whether it is to the detriment of scum/town, I do not know.

But from zwerdijib's alibi we can see at least there are some conflicting drafts, and this would be proven valid if he flips town.

Or he could be scum and still didn't get the draft.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:47:12 AM
Fact is, I hard townread raikaria, he has pride in his status as the old guard and is giving an explanation about basic game mechanics.

I see this as a pro-town move done in goodwill.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 01, 2020, 12:47:29 AM
Yaersulf reads scum, he did not votepark last game like this, and the erratic posting times is offputting

Au contraire. I voteparked last game, on you D2, and I'ma do it again. That's what you want me to do after all right?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:49:53 AM
Buon fortuna to you and your team, then.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 12:55:38 AM
I don't think that most sane people would need any reasoning on why a massclaim early Day 1 would be a bad idea in a semi-open setup with powerful roles and think that actively pushing for this is scummy.
Also, given what you've said about raikaria giving you something to think about, are you still wanting people to massclaim?

Quote
I don't think that most sane people would need any reasoning on why a massclaim early Day 1 would be a bad idea in a semi-open setup with powerful roles and think that actively pushing for this is scummy.

but ive explained this already

if we expect the minimum amount of honest answers (8)

we already know over half the setup

this is pretty simple

theres no reason to not do it tbh

i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig

Quote
Also, given what you've said about raikaria giving you something to think about, are you still wanting people to massclaim?

thats exactly what im thinking about
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 12:57:46 AM
zwerdijib, before you had a glint of determination, like a diamond shining in your eyes.

But now in this game, you have fallen, and is no more than a pile of strawberries now.

Are you resolved for this? Because I am more ready than you are to win this for town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 12:58:02 AM
cut by a zwerdijib wall, okay, now that's really scummy.


...what
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:01:01 AM
zwerdijib, before you had a glint of determination, like a diamond shining in your eyes.

But now in this game, you have fallen, and is no more than a pile of strawberries now.

Are you resolved for this? Because I am more ready than you are to win this for town.

no im honestly really tired and this week is going to be a strawberriesshow so i probably wont post much (and there will hardly be any purple text...)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 01:03:52 AM
>expect the minimal amount of honest numbers (8)

Firstly, there is no guarantee that town would lie.
Secondly, there is no guarantee that town would have enough power to break the setup in the first place.
Thirdly, this is an active detriment by providing scum with a significant amount of unnecessary information.

Like I said, any sane person should already know that massclaim early Day 1 is a bad idea. There's a reason why people don't do this even in completely open setups.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:11:23 AM
Raikaria is hard town, zwerdijib's reaction to jojo meme does not check out, Dormio defending zwerdijib is out despite voting on him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:15:47 AM
##Unvote
##Vote zwerdijib


Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:16:06 AM
Raikaria is hard town, zwerdijib's reaction to jojo meme does not check out, Dormio defending zwerdijib is out despite voting on him.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/576937569124745221/716822286656733295/Screenshot_256.png)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:20:50 AM
>expect the minimal amount of honest numbers (8)

Firstly, there is no guarantee that town would lie.
Secondly, there is no guarantee that town would have enough power to break the setup in the first place.
Thirdly, this is an active detriment by providing scum with a significant amount of unnecessary information.

Like I said, any sane person should already know that massclaim early Day 1 is a bad idea. There's a reason why people don't do this even in completely open setups.

1. if youre not telling the truth then like i dont have much else to say you kinna deserve to get flipped and killed for that in itself

2. thats... not the point though. the point is that we understand the setup itself. in fact, i think we should massclaim which choice we got on our draft lists to break the setup.

3. its literally role madness. i wouldnt suggest this if this were, say, a game of bird but in this everyone is a power role. therefore, not much info about our roles is relevant to scum, and in turn, is much more relevant to us. for example, someone claiming submarine here means that a) they had sub at the top of their list (which is moderately AI), b) we need to lynch them to kill them and c) theyre worth tracking/copping. for mafia, only b is relevant; if it even is, considering the chances that mafia rolled sub.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:22:22 AM
##Unvote
##Vote zwerdijib


i feel like youre big braining a way to not get lynched when you could just... try to solve
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:24:57 AM
This is not the optimal defense, the optimal defense is 'I am the aircraft base'

Lynch zwerdijib.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 01, 2020, 01:28:13 AM
But I thought you wanted us to lynch you, what changed?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:28:53 AM
I was stalking the User Online list, were you viewing as a guest, Yaersulf?

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:29:52 AM
This is not the optimal defense, the optimal defense is 'I am the aircraft base'

Lynch zwerdijib.

that makes no sense but... go off
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 01, 2020, 01:32:24 AM
I was stalking the User Online list, were you viewing as a guest, Yaersulf?

That's a scarily accurate guess. I actually was, on my phone while I was making lunch.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:34:25 AM
anything to contribute, by the way, dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 01:48:37 AM
I'm at work right now so my activity is going to be intermittent at best.
Anyway. The thing is, we don't actually know the setup? We know what potential roles exist but we have absolutely no idea how many of them, if any, were actually selected and are in play. On top of that, there's no guarantee that all responses will be truthful and there's no guarantee that everybody will participate. Also, given that it's role madness, it's even more important for scum to have information about who has what role. Like, I dunno, there's a lot of flaws here. Almost as many as there were with NuclearWaffle's kill everything plan.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 01:55:02 AM
But yeah, the fact that your basis for scumreading myself and Daiya is that we didn't agree with the massclaim idea is pretty bad.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 02:12:45 AM
But yeah, the fact that your basis for scumreading myself and Daiya is that we didn't agree with the massclaim idea is pretty bad.

???

you ask me for the reason i sr daiya and you dont bother to read it?

what
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 02:19:25 AM
But your given reason is literally Daiya not agreeing with the massclaim idea (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625) while supposedly "not giving unique reasons like raikaria" (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660).
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 02:19:54 AM
Dormio, I do not like long drawn-out battles of attrition. Which I know it may be a necessity in your stance, but I am pointing out it is contrary to your philosophy.

I know you are capable at using quicktopics to split your persona well, and based on my read of FTL mafia, with NNR modding philosophy and game design mod involvement is heavy (mod votes, mod comments in QT).

If Dormio, you have your own Thoughts QT right now, I wish you would cooperate with me and make things exciting.

After all, the worse kind of victory is the cold and sour flavour. Do the bold move and let's get on with it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 02:21:40 AM
wat.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 02:35:57 AM
This is actually effective, I am surprised.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 02:37:52 AM
well, no

i srd him more because
Quote
and, for the record, i still dont like how daiya is playing this game. hes too passive for my liking.

which is more a meta read so i understand *why* youd be somewhat lost here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 02:40:47 AM
well, no

i srd him more because
which is more a meta read so i understand *why* youd be somewhat lost here

i even clarified that the vote on him opposing the massclaim was more an rvs vote in the same post you quoted
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 03:10:23 AM
What differentiates Daiya from the other people who have made 1~3 posts of no significance?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 03:15:07 AM
Also, I find it difficult to believe that the refusal to follow through on the massclaim idea doesn't factor into the decision to think that Daiya is scum given how you're still so attached to that idea.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 01, 2020, 04:55:05 AM
OK, I'm a bit behind, but some thoughts:
I don't agree with Waffles' push on Dormio, but I don't think it's necessarily scummy. I can't see why a scum would do that at the start of the game.
Mass-claiming this early is objectively bad, so don't do it. Why do you want a mass-claim, @zwerdjib?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 01, 2020, 05:05:27 AM
gah, i almost forgot about nucleus. wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, but it feels like i'm making the same mistake again. could def see this as a gambit to secure an early town read, especially since it mirrors what he's seen in the games he read/participated in

##Vote: NucleusWaffles
Can you elaborate? Has Nucleus done something like this before as scum?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 05:26:18 AM
I do not want to talk about ships and war.

I want to talk about signalling and the wolf.

The wolf is a canine, so is the cuddly Chinhuahua, so is the Nureongi.

They are beautiful animals, and different from the sheep in that they have a prominient, almost instinctual wagging tail response to any external stimuli.

The sheep is actually symbolic of weakness and innocence in Christianity, yet the sheep is also associated with the lamb, the ram, the goat, ideologically, the child, the weak, and the devil are similar and a fine line is treaded between them.

I do not choose who to be born as, but I am born as a sheep this round, I am now innocent, unaware of a greater purpose, and lack the inherent social signalling in dogs such as a distinctive bark and vocalisations.


This is the position we are in, the flock, the sheep, the masses who cannot have a distincitve signal or voice.

The mod provides the dogs with a distinct signal, the quicktopic, some bastard mods or gods twist the intent of nature so the quicktopic is not trustworthy.

We are not dealing with such a jester god, this is an open setup, we have open communications.

Although the wolves may mimic our signal, we must steer clear of the smokescreen and use what resources we have.

Bank on your instinct, vote the scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 01, 2020, 05:27:44 AM
I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 01, 2020, 07:24:12 AM
I forgot what raikaria said that I should think about.

I think the introspection is that I can't read raikaria, the giant banner is distracting and I am psychologically still in the 'He's fighting Corona, can't be evil' state.

I... uh... didn't ask for you to think about anything.

And I absolutely can be evil. I'm not, and I actually agree with Serela. People should not write me off as Town simply because I'm stating why massclaiming is bad for Town.

Even a partial massclaim is bad really, as that information narrows down who isn't roles like Battleship; increasing the chances of scum hitting those more pro-town roles.

Information is at a premium for both factions. Town needs to get information, yes, but Scum does too. Also; role =/= alignment. Town doesn't know what alignment each role is. Scum knows each role claim is or is not their alignment because they share their own communication. [And North Korea dosen't care]. This is why a massclaim is scum-favored. Also let's assume no-one counter-claims Fighter.

Let's say I claim Fighter.

Town : Doesn't know if I'm Scum Fighter or Town Fighter

Scum: Knows I'm not Scum Fighter. Also knows I'm not something like Battleship or Evesdrop; which I imagine would be the highest priority for scum to kill.

North Korea - Doesn't care about my alignment

So who is this information more valuable to? The answer is Scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 01, 2020, 07:26:08 AM
Worth mentioning I don't think this whole massclaim thing is enough to vote people for. I think it's likly to be misguided Town rather than scum.

After all; MotK has a habit of scum lurking D1 and the 'Town Leaders' being early wagons simply because there's more content to use to make cases.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 01, 2020, 10:04:53 AM
I feel like all the spats going on right now are just meaningless noise, and people trying to take out the human element from the game and treat it like a 1p game.

Unless you're North Korea, this is multiplayer. Still really don't like Nucleus framing everything Dormio does as scummy and bending over backwards five ways to justify it.

Does it make sense for scum!Nucleus to make so much noise? Probably not. But by this point he's putting the clinical insanity on so hard, I hardly feel like he takes the game serious and is just fire trucking around. Smells Korean to me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:08:09 PM
I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?

read the thread

it wins games i promise you
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:12:02 PM
Bardiche, are you opposed to meta tells across games because it feels vulnurable/exposing?

Really don't read this but this is harsh comment that I feel I need to get out there, classify this under 'ad hominiem against Bardiche'

I had a lot of down time between this post but I have been reading as a guest and thinking alot about especially why the shift between "I am bullying Dormio", which I was immediately alerted to, and "Nucleus is clinically insane" which seems like contradictory stances to hold.

If you do not mind, I also want to bring to attention the previous exchange where you expressed regret over explicitly treating K4U harshly. I understand this is a game and its all about lying, deceptive practices, but the way the "Bardiche" persona is being crafted is unpleasant for me to witness currently.

Especially since, I kind of feel betrayed at taking you seriously.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:18:32 PM
I reread that spoiler, it really was very unprofessional of me to express emotions like that.

Turns out anoynimity does wonders to maintaining one's image, especially after a long day.

In retrospect, I am probably just triggered about the word 'bullying' and especially coming from someone whom I believe I had bullied out of the game earlier.

I understand you handed out a disclaimer that things are fine, but I still feel personally responsible being the last person in the Ys Mafia whom you interacted with negatively before subbing out.

I really prefer if we can settle this civilly.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:19:32 PM
What differentiates Daiya from the other people who have made 1~3 posts of no significance?

well i have no idea how anyone else plays and thus how they choose to play the game is less relevant to me. but if i think daiya is playing too passively then of course im going to call it out

also if you think this is an issue in hypocrisy you should probably think about what youre doing right now

Also, I find it difficult to believe that the refusal to follow through on the massclaim idea doesn't factor into the decision to think that Daiya is scum given how you're still so attached to that idea.

...okay
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 01:24:24 PM
I... uh... didn't ask for you to think about anything.

And I absolutely can be evil. I'm not, and I actually agree with Serela. People should not write me off as Town simply because I'm stating why massclaiming is bad for Town.

Even a partial massclaim is bad really, as that information narrows down who isn't roles like Battleship; increasing the chances of scum hitting those more pro-town roles.

Information is at a premium for both factions. Town needs to get information, yes, but Scum does too. Also; role =/= alignment. Town doesn't know what alignment each role is. Scum knows each role claim is or is not their alignment because they share their own communication. [And North Korea dosen't care]. This is why a massclaim is scum-favored. Also let's assume no-one counter-claims Fighter.

Let's say I claim Fighter.

Town : Doesn't know if I'm Scum Fighter or Town Fighter

Scum: Knows I'm not Scum Fighter. Also knows I'm not something like Battleship or Evesdrop; which I imagine would be the highest priority for scum to kill.

North Korea - Doesn't care about my alignment

So who is this information more valuable to? The answer is Scum.

...what the hell is this guys scum meta i need to know
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 01, 2020, 01:38:11 PM
@Nucleus
I don't know what to tell you other than it's water under the bridge. I want you lynched entirely and fully because I believe you are not aligned with the town. We can put the Dormio bullying allegation behind us; I apologise for upsetting you, I honestly read it as "Let's lynch Dormio because he's Dormio", which if you're advocating D1 lynches on people because of meta, just feels like a really strawberriesty thing to do.

Imagine a world where Goliath is the greatest scum player ever, and it is impossible to discern Town!Goliath from Scum!Goliath. Because of this reasons, Town always lynches him Day 1 in every game he signs up to. Why the hell would Goliath bother signing up again, if he's getting lynched for being who he is?

If you're advocating a lynch because Goliath always posts 5 times a day as Town but only once per day as scum, and he's posting once a day now, then sure. But please let's avoid lynching people before they have done anything simply because you believe removing them from the game is "optimal".
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
I am going to sleep off the negative vibes, but in summary, that's a heavy misrepresentation.

I was just personally triggered at the word 'bully', since its taken rather seriously in my life.

But based on the heat Bardiche has dished out and Dormio has also in the past, I don't think this is a 'real' emotional rouse from Bardiche, who has played for more than 7 years on and off.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 01, 2020, 02:01:50 PM
Addendum, I do not think that was a good way to phrase things, because ambiguity and misinterpretation on my case which I drafted is my responsibility.

Bardiche, I am casing Dormio, still am, and zwerdijib based on the broader meta implications and in-game reactions which unfold.

I am not assuring my reads which are intuitive are correct. I am not a very intuitive person, actually, and I base my case around what is available.

The guide told me this is the way to play town, be firm, don't let the longer spats disperse my focus, don't get emotional. Most importantly, dish onto others what I would dish upon myself.

I try to win and have fun, that's it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 01, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
But based on the heat Bardiche has dished out and Dormio has also in the past, I don't think this is a 'real' emotional rouse from Bardiche, who has played for more than 7 years on and off.


What does this even mean
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 01, 2020, 04:29:53 PM
well, no

i srd him more because
which is more a meta read so i understand *why* youd be somewhat lost here
Ah. A meta read. That's interesting. Because it's not like I've ever "played passively" and flipped town, right? Additionally, you've got about the same sample size for me as you do for some other "passive" players. See: Yaer, Meow, Celery. What are they doing that I'm not? And what's so different about my gameplay now that worries you, if it could even be called passive in this gamestate? You also never mentioned your concerns about it prior. I'm getting the impression that you're making this strawberries up as you go.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 01, 2020, 04:41:48 PM
Can you elaborate? Has Nucleus done something like this before as scum?
yis, he came in at gamestart claiming some wild role and requesting that everyone reveal their genders so that he could, use it optimally, for the town's sake. this eventually led to a staged (improved?) counterclaim with him and his scumbuddy celery in which i sided with nucleus (gave him the insanity pass) and felt very silly afterwards

tl;dr he likes gambits and everything confusing
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 01, 2020, 04:49:48 PM
I'm not sure what to do here, other people seem to have the zwerdjib angle covered, and while it's really easy to just poke Nucleus and have weird seemingly incriminating words come out I'm not sure how much that's worth doing before it just becomes redundant noise.

Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words.

Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

And what do people in general think about how sure Nucleus seems to be that Raikaria is town, do you think that means anything?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 01, 2020, 05:16:05 PM
...what the hell is this guys scum meta i need to know

My scum meta is I don't roll scum unless it's Anonmafia where I get to ham it up.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 01, 2020, 05:18:31 PM
ah i'd also like to reiterate that the submarine is confirmed to be itg if serela's words are to be trusted. should they claim?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 05:22:10 PM
Ah. A meta read. That's interesting. Because it's not like I've ever "played passively" and flipped town, right? Additionally, you've got about the same sample size for me as you do for some other "passive" players. See: Yaer, Meow, Celery. What are they doing that I'm not? And what's so different about my gameplay now that worries you, if it could even be called passive in this gamestate? You also never mentioned your concerns about it prior. I'm getting the impression that you're making this strawberries up as you go.

daiya

i want to believe you scumread me for this

but

this reads more as "you hurt my pride" than "i think youre scum"

like you havent been trying to move the game forward. youre just repeating what youve said before. you made a decent link between nucleus and his previous games, but thats all. youre kind of frozen.

insulting your pride appears to be the best way to get you to do things

- cut by asking for a submarine claim. dont think it changes anything
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 01, 2020, 07:58:36 PM
Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

I think zwerdjib is a town lean for me. Methinks that if scum!zwerdjib had specifically planned to make town massclaim then they would've asked for it immediately instead of waiting.

By the way, has anyone seen beru? They haven't spoken since DEFCON 5.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 01, 2020, 08:18:57 PM
literally prod dodging for a little while here, i worked night shift and someone called the police 4 times (aaghghghghhh) and now that I'm awake after 6 hours of low quality midday sleep I'm supposed to help my uncle do his taxes x_____x will mafia later tonight
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 08:47:13 PM
also if you think this is an issue in hypocrisy you should probably think about what youre doing right now
wat?
I think that you tried to push for a scummy thing whilst trying to pass it off as a winning town strat and are therefore scum.
kthxbai.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 09:48:10 PM
wait oh my god its fire trucking june

what have i been doing with my life

wat?
I think that you tried to push for a scummy thing whilst trying to pass it off as a winning town strat and are therefore scum.
kthxbai.

youre tunneling

enough said
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 10:27:10 PM
Okay. And?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 10:31:12 PM
Like, basically, I think you tried to push for a strat that benefits scum and therefore are scum. I also dislike how you generated a townread off raikaria explaining basic game theory.
I also think that NuclearWaffles is probably the ITP SK but there are enough votes there already.

Next caller.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 10:33:37 PM
Okay. And?

its an actively anti-town behavior and its the only behavior youve displayed

im beginning to see a pattern here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 10:55:54 PM
Coolio.
Got anything to add other than an OMGUS?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 01, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Coolio.
Got anything to add other than an OMGUS?

do you? thats what im asking
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 11:02:04 PM
Uh, what?
I'm the one saying that "hey your plan to reveal a whole bunch of information to the scumteam (and sk) is scummy, I think you're scum. Also your Daiya suspicion and raikaria absolution is contradictory at best" with you responding "lol you're tunneling" and you're saying that I've got the OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck) case?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 01, 2020, 11:03:34 PM
Also, @Mod:
Where the heck are the votecounts?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 01, 2020, 11:37:16 PM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Beta

NucleusWaffles (4) - Yaersulf, Bardiche, Serela, Daiya
zwerdjib (3) - Dormio, NucleusWaffles, Abu
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Serela (0) -
Beru (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Chihiro Fujisaki (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Chihiro Fujisaki

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

Beru has been prodded.
I still need a replacement for Chihiro
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 02, 2020, 12:06:02 AM
Uh, what?
I'm the one saying that "hey your plan to reveal a whole bunch of information to the scumteam (and sk) is scummy, I think you're scum. Also your Daiya suspicion and raikaria absolution is contradictory at best" with you responding "lol you're tunneling" and you're saying that I've got the OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck) case?

but like... ive already explained all of this. nothing new has come out of this discussion youre having with me. and ive already explained why townreading raikaria does not contradict scumreading daiya.

youre tunneling. this is a fact. get over it. everyone has done it at some point.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 02, 2020, 12:12:52 AM
I mean it doesn't change my opinion so I'm reiterating it?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 02, 2020, 12:37:51 AM
I mean it doesn't change my opinion so I'm reiterating it?

this is going in circles

do you want to just stop
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 02, 2020, 12:44:02 AM
Sure but my vote isn't moving for the time being.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 02, 2020, 03:22:00 AM
ah I forgot about this game

hewwo what is going on my dudes. any hot takes
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 02, 2020, 03:32:04 AM
oh ok I remember why I suddenly stopped caring

people like nuclear make me not want to play on this forum. nice first impression

can someone eli5 the zeep thing to me because idgi
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 02, 2020, 05:47:27 AM
Mostly a prod dodge here. Still haven't seen anything which I think is bad enough to make a case about, although seeing as today is a day off for me and my last before deadline, I'll definitely try and make some sort of case on who I think is worst at the time before Tuesday ends [In Britland].
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 02, 2020, 07:03:54 AM
yis, he came in at gamestart claiming some wild role and requesting that everyone reveal their genders so that he could, use it optimally, for the town's sake. this eventually led to a staged (improved?) counterclaim with him and his scumbuddy celery in which i sided with nucleus (gave him the insanity pass) and felt very silly afterwards

tl;dr he likes gambits and everything confusing
very much improv, when I told waffles to not claim, and if he had to claim in near future claim cop, and then he claimed some crazy role immediately and without checking with scumbuddies lmao

I feel like I should be responding to his posts here because I'm voting him but it feels like he's going on an animal spirit guide journey and I don't even know what to make of this :S Other than that there's a couple slapfights going on but I don't think they're very interesting? Why is d1 literally a week long, there really should be more pressure so we can huddle onto something for consolidation and then at least have stuff to argue about for d2
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 02, 2020, 11:29:21 AM
Serela: “there should be more pressure”
Also Serela: not putting more pressure anywhere



Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 02, 2020, 12:16:21 PM
i meant deadline pressure ;_;
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 02, 2020, 12:18:38 PM
I feel like all the spats going on right now are just meaningless noise
like, part of the reason i just fell into "whatever I'm exhausted and busy and I'm going to post later" is because I read the thread and this was my exact opinion

so I thought, ok i'm going to come back later and
A.be less exhausted hopefully
B.maybe something more will have happened or I'm just missing stuff because I'm tired

the reality is nah i just came back later to actually have enough energy to read the thread three times to confirm my previous opinion of not caring about anything going on
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 02, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
can someone eli5 the zeep thing to me because idgi
zwerdjib pushes for a strat that benefits scum. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7623#msg7623)
zwerdjib thinks that Daiya is scummy for not wanting to massclaim. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625)
zwerdjib thinks that raikaria is town for not wanting to massclaim (but with basic game theory related reasons provided). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647)
zwerdjib updates his opinion on Daiya being scummy to include passiveness, ignoring the plethora of other people who have yet to post much (if at all). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 02, 2020, 01:42:58 PM
##Vote: Serela
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 02, 2020, 02:31:10 PM
zwerdjib pushes for a strat that benefits scum. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7623#msg7623)
zwerdjib thinks that Daiya is scummy for not wanting to massclaim. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625)
zwerdjib thinks that raikaria is town for not wanting to massclaim (but with basic game theory related reasons provided). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647)
zwerdjib updates his opinion on Daiya being scummy to include passiveness, ignoring the plethora of other people who have yet to post much (if at all). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660)

Isn't Zwedjib pushing for an anti-town strat then saying a guy argueing against said strat is town logical?

God I wish more people would post more stuff to give me things to actually comment on while I'm here.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 02, 2020, 03:57:40 PM
zwerdjib pushes for a strat that benefits scum. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7623#msg7623)
zwerdjib thinks that Daiya is scummy for not wanting to massclaim. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7625#msg7625)
zwerdjib thinks that raikaria is town for not wanting to massclaim (but with basic game theory related reasons provided). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647)
zwerdjib updates his opinion on Daiya being scummy to include passiveness, ignoring the plethora of other people who have yet to post much (if at all). (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660)

dormio severely misconstrues- (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7756#msg7756) oh wait
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 02, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
daiya

i want to believe you scumread me for this

but

this reads more as "you hurt my pride" than "i think youre scum"

like you havent been trying to move the game forward. youre just repeating what youve said before. you made a decent link between nucleus and his previous games, but thats all. youre kind of frozen.

insulting your pride appears to be the best way to get you to do things

- cut by asking for a submarine claim. dont think it changes anything
it should read as "your case on me is bs"

when your main sample of me is spending an entire game getting hunted for playing passively as town, it makes it hard to believe that it's a meta read, as you claimed. the reasoning there doesn't fit. if it was just "daiya is playing passively", then cool. brings you back to square one, though: singling me out and ignoring ppl like yaer meow serel.

I'm not sure what to do here, other people seem to have the zwerdjib angle covered, and while it's really easy to just poke Nucleus and have weird seemingly incriminating words come out I'm not sure how much that's worth doing before it just becomes redundant noise.

Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words.

Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

And what do people in general think about how sure Nucleus seems to be that Raikaria is town, do you think that means anything?
thanks for poking meow, i'm always down to hear more from them

wdym by "other people have the zwerdjib angle covered", though. doesn't mean you can't comment on it yourself.

i don't particularly like how safe you're doing things. the idea of no one else doing anything suspicious means that everyone else is a null for you, right? surely some people seem townier than others. it isn't all about indicting someone.

nucleus reading hard blue on raik is kinda weird. the reasoning isn't sound, but idt it means much personally? does seem like something that he'd believe regardless of alignment

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 02, 2020, 06:39:34 PM

unorganized thoughts, but don't skim plx:

slight town on bard, i like the earlier push he made on zwerd in #94. shows that he's still interested in gamesolving despite the reservations that he might have about doing that.

dormio's strange. he's pretty lax in regards to game involvement, even when he's present. interactions with zwerd seem pretty genuine to me though, so i don't see them being the same alignment if either one were to flip red. reading town atm since i don't feel too great about zwerd, but he's worth keeping an eye on otherwise.

slight scum on yaer, as mentioned before i don't like his "no one is being sus" excuse and aversion to giving thoughts on zwerd. seems like a mindset more geared towards building cases than gamesolving. it"s a slight distinction, but an important one.

serela is just as dodgy wrt content, so i like bard's vote on him. both are pretty settled on nucleus, which isn't really a hard thing to do. the way that he confirmed the existence of the sub does seem kind of good to me, but i suppose it could've been a move to gain easy town cred and seem helpful. @raikaria, is that something he'd do? anyone else who knows him well can answer too, i suppose.

i do agree that we shouldn't drag this phase out the whole five days. no reason to rush things, though. there's still a bunch of people who haven't said much. i do personally think the big nuke should take prio over zwerd if nothing changes. leaving a potential sk around while he's got a silo claim could easily blow up in our faces. it's easy lynching, though. anyone could say "nuke's insane" and vote for him. wouldn't leave us with much content, at the end of the day. do kind of wanna vote yaer rn, but i'd rather wait for his response, and putting pressure on serela is more feasible atm.

##unvote

##vote: serela
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 02, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
trying to figure out dormio's posting restriction

[attachment=1]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 02, 2020, 07:21:15 PM
Ok yeah that's fair, I suppose it'd be more accurate to revise that to "I agree that zwerdjib looks suspicious, but not as suspicious as Nucleus, and I'm not sure what I could contribute to the case on him that more experienced players aren't already doing better than I could." And as for me thinking nobody really looks suspicious other than those two, I've tried rereading and looking for stuff but if there's something there I'm missing it, though I'm not even too sure what it is I'm supposed to be looking for. This is only my second game so I'm still not sure exactly what scuminess looks like at this point in the game. Except in obvious cases like Nucleus.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 02, 2020, 08:32:22 PM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Charlie

NucleusWaffles (2) - Yaersulf,  Serela
zwerdjib (3) - Dormio, NucleusWaffles, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Beru (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Chihiro Fujisaki (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Chihiro Fujisaki

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Chihiro
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 02, 2020, 09:04:14 PM
Screw it, I know I promised Nucleus I'd park my vote on him but I may as well do something productive with it.

##Unvote
##Vote:Beru

Stop lurking and weigh in on things.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 02, 2020, 09:27:33 PM
you can promote a strat that is antitown and still be town it just means you shouldn't be allowed to be in charge of anything

tho, this zeep isn't that different from last time I played with zeep where he was a wolf so idk. last time a lot of people let zeep be wolfy because they thought he was naturally wolfy but they'd also never played a game with him before...

uh if everyone else also thinks that nuclear is itp we should lynch him and, if u are thinking about this right now, no the fact that he could still win while dead should not be a deterrent to lynch him ok?

yeah those are some thoughts. I have dedicated 0 braincells to this game so here u go
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 02, 2020, 09:40:14 PM
uh if everyone else also thinks that nuclear is itp we should lynch him and, if u are thinking about this right now, no the fact that he could still win while dead should not be a deterrent to lynch him ok?

What makes you think Nuclear is itp so early on?

slight scum on yaer, as mentioned before i don't like his "no one is being sus" excuse and aversion to giving thoughts on zwerd. seems like a mindset more geared towards building cases than gamesolving. it"s a slight distinction, but an important one.

serela is just as dodgy wrt content, so i like bard's vote on him. both are pretty settled on nucleus, which isn't really a hard thing to do. the way that he confirmed the existence of the sub does seem kind of good to me, but i suppose it could've been a move to gain easy town cred and seem helpful. @raikaria, is that something he'd do? anyone else who knows him well can answer too, i suppose.

I'm not sure why of all people Daiya is appealing to be for information on other players. It does seem somewhat like a Serela thing to do however, it's... well... wafflely. It almost seems like something Serela intended almost by accident.

Also; it's worth mentioning anyone who didn't get their first choice can confirm the existence of a role in the game. I can confirm that Fighter is in the game, as I missed out on this role myself.

I think this is a good way for us to sus out which roles are in the game without giving scum too much info on who is what role. Far better than a massclaim at least. Like; Mafia know I'm not Fighter and Serela isnt Sub, but they don't know who *is* those roles, or if Serela/Me are just silos or some other PR.

Also; combining with my curiosity as to why Daiya is reffering to me about Serela... his beef with yaer could basically be applied to me. Yet not only am I not given as a scumread, but if Daiya is asking me specifically for meta info instead of Dormio or some other long-term player, that suggests Daiya trusts me?

I find this a little odd. Especially with how much Daiya is pushing 'gamesolving'. Part of gamesolving is making a case to convince everyone else you've solved the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 02, 2020, 09:41:43 PM
Also I know I said I'd vote but the worst thing I've seen so far is Zeep's massclaim suggestion which I still see as misguided town rather than scum.

I mean if I had to vote I'd vote for Zeep due to that... but I don't think it's worth voting andI actually think such a vote considering MotK D1 habits would do more harm than good.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 02, 2020, 11:00:11 PM
Also I know I said I'd vote but the worst thing I've seen so far is Zeep's massclaim suggestion which I still see as misguided town rather than scum.

I mean if I had to vote I'd vote for Zeep due to that... but I don't think it's worth voting andI actually think such a vote considering MotK D1 habits would do more harm than good.

who
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 02, 2020, 11:06:45 PM
Isn't Zwedjib pushing for an anti-town strat then saying a guy argueing against said strat is town logical?

God I wish more people would post more stuff to give me things to actually comment on while I'm here.
ah it was because you said this. you wanted something to do, and i figured you'd be the most available to respond

guess that is a fair point about you and yaer being similar. i was more focused on him since he was openly parking on an easy target, so you flew under my radar in that regard

i support the idea of confirming roles. don't have much to contribute in that regard, unfortunately
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 03, 2020, 12:29:04 AM
On my phone but why are you people so insistent on outing your own roles?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 03, 2020, 12:55:41 AM
Well, that latest form doesn't seem so bad; they're confirming role X is in the game, but not them. They could still be literally any role themselves, and knowing X role is on someone can be beneficial to town in future claiming situations but doesn't really benefit scum that much. I think Raikaria has been looking fairly good overall and that coming up with that as an idea (rather than me just -happening- to do it) helps reinforce my town read on them.

The votes on me are fair, my last post(s) are definitely devoid of any real content lmao. I'd sort of like to join the beru wagon but I know I'm almost as guilty as they are of not really being able to find much to talk about so I can kind of sympathize? OK that sounded better in my head, actually typing it out almost makes me want to vote myself ZZZZZZZZZ Still tho', they're definitely doing even less than me.

I'm still content with where my vote is, but beru is currently like my runner-up vote target? When is deadline again?? In about two days, ok :T
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 03, 2020, 02:11:41 AM
raik it was like. my first and second post of the game.

a plan that results in the death of all players is a plan in which the ITP wins. he knew this and he proposed it anyway. he wasn't surprised by the general response to it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 03, 2020, 06:48:39 AM
Serela's admission that he doesn't care what's going on runs counter to his usual stance as Town (which is to care a whole lot), and combined with vacuous ramblings, I'm fairly happy with just staring at my pulchritudinous vote right now.

Others:
Nucleus - Proposing 3P-oriented action plan, immediately folding under the tiniest bit of pressure, overall giving off the same vibes as previous game re: behaviour that's impossible to rhyme as Townie but not being outright scummy.

Daiya - I don't like anyone buddying up to me by slight town reading me for a post in the early early game. I've done strawberries since, how does that weigh up to being slightly town for commenting on zwerdjib's early early game?

Zwerdjib - Generates many posts, but for all that, there isn't actually a whole lot of different stuff in them. Very limited scope of interactions despite volume.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 07:22:52 AM
Bardiche's intent and beru's intent at rekindling discussion reads town to me.

Raikaria's respond at how he can be evil reads null but not scum-ish.

Again, agree with Bardiche's read that Serela and zwerdijib reads scummish for the aforementioned reasons.

Overall, not happy with how I caused some toxicity, but I like the lynch on zwerdijib, just not exactly how aggressive Dormio seems to be pushing it.

Why is Dormio linking posts instead of using walls to response? The pop-ups are difficult to read. And I am paranoid about Dormio, in full honesty. I don't know what social magic he used last game to win the 3P with Zakeri, nor what social magic he used to get ActionDan lynched, but I think just the thought of being in LyLo with a malignant Dormio is horrifying.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 03, 2020, 07:44:44 AM
I really dislike how so many people have yet to post anything significant. Or just anything at all.
The Chihiro slot is a void right now, NuclearWaffles is either going to be lynched or nuked at the soonest opportunity, and Yaersulf/Daiya/meow56/AbuHumaid/beru basically don't exist.
Selery is posting but being extremely useless, zwerdjib I dislike due to reasons that I've iterated plenty of times I feel, and raikaria/Bardiche are shining beacons of sanity in these dark times.

What I'm basically trying to say is that I hate mafia.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 03, 2020, 07:51:22 AM
Effective immediately

Zoomy Tsugumi replaces Chihiro
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 03, 2020, 07:53:55 AM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Delta

zwerdjib (3) - Dormio, NucleusWaffles, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
NucleusWaffles (1) - Serela
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Beru (1) - Yaersulf
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumii (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Zoomy Tsugumi

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 08:18:33 AM
##Unvote

I have bad vibes on where this lynch is going. Let me organise my thoughts a bit.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 08:30:45 AM
Alright.

The pages 4-8 are mostly zwerdijib vs Dormio. For accusing zwerdijib for little content, Dormio himself seems perfectly happy to add fuel to the fire.

I have to admit, since the Bardiche spat I had I was a bit demotivated. But I think my thought processes are a bit clearer and I like to appreciate the MS-esque 5-day deadline mechanism.

Currently, I want to townread Bardiche, Serela, raikaria. They did nice content without making things too difficult to read for the audience, I would like to think that comes from a town-motivated place.

I still have a strong FoS on Dormio, zwerdijib, Yaersulf. I am not sure what to make of Chihiro/ZoomyTsugumi slot because we had a very similar lurk -> replace slot last game with banana spritzee who was town, and I am wiling to bite the bullet for trusting sub-out etiquitte if this slot is scum.

That means I townclear Chihiro/ZoomyTsugumi for subbing out, which leaves the last possible scum a pick between beru/Abu, both of whom while I don't agree with Dormio for having 'posted nothing', I don't think its possible for scum to psychologically have completely coherent and coordinated responses.

Basically, I would assign a 2:1 ratio to scum for active/lurk or lurk/active, and the :1 to the SK who is an unpredictable opportunist.

But based on the number of silos, I am pretty confident the SK is not dictating the flow of the game.

I just don't like how Serela/Raikaria is outing information on the Submarine/Fighter or implying so, as town we have no way of confirming a draft anyhow, and unless we decide to lynch to claimed PR (which is objectively a poor town play to weaken the power) this is anti-town to claim or even discuss the option to roleclaim.


Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 08:35:03 AM
Also, I dont think we need to role claim to exclude what roles are in the game.

If this town is smart enough to know all draft silo is a terrible idea, then this town is smart enough to understand the relative power of roles.

That was the main idea behind the proposal, to gauge the degree of role-awareness in this town.

I won't do more tinfoil spinning, because we all place different values on the roles. But personally, I find information roles like Fighter/Espionage/Radar icing because I am not charming enough to lynch people even off a confirmed guilty.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 08:41:03 AM
Nyello, haven't played Mafia in about 6 years so apologies if I'm rusty on terminology and stuff.

I've been spectating this game (and the other ones played here since the reboot) and so I've got a few thoughts.

Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

@Serela: Do you think Dormio vs Zeep is Town/Town? You had a lot of game theory opinion but didn't really delve much into how you feel about either player.

@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

@Abu: I understand you're sheeping Dormio with the Zeep case, but do you have any suspicions of your own that you're examining right now?


I think that's everything so far?

CUT BY NUCLEUS: Ok I feel a little better about your posting style right now, keep this up and we can have some dialogue
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 08:52:33 AM
Re Zoom: I actually have a different idea on lurking, I don't mind lurkers personally as town as long as they have some form of trackable record.

Lurkers also provide less to read, although I admit for people like meow (whom I forgot existed)/beru/Abu are really not asserting their presence much.

The online times/guest tracking function is wonderful because I can keep a monitor on whose who and choosing anoymity rather than viewing publicly, and that gives me a personally pretty good pulse on the playstyle of which players.

I am pretty much using that plus guess to decide if the lurkers are to lynch, but I think zwerdijib is a good lynch in terms of, well, decluttering.


Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 09:29:10 AM
I think lurking is an inherently anti-town action especially when people are basically coming in to prod dodge and not further the game state in any meaningful way.
I understand cutting down on overall fluff but that can also be achieved by town consolidating posts where possible and keeping things concise.
I mean theoretically the 4 people I listed could contain the entire scumteam and the third party but it's statistically unlikely and too convenient, I'm sure at least one or two are town and just need to be doing a lot better.

You find out more about people's alignments the more they post and if a proper read could be had on any of them it's one step closer to solving the game. It should be wholly unacceptable to just lurk the whole time.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 12:15:06 PM
I agree lurking is anti-town, but I do not think enforcing anti-lurk policy is pro-town.

I read and regurgitate things a lot. I am less good at picking out threads in a single game, but I think that angle based on analysing game wins/lost and player meta makes me suggest some pretty 'clinically insane' ideas.

I think enforcing anti-lurk is impossible in the meta here.

If our common goal is to win for town, which it is, then we need to be pragmatic and consider the varied interests/pressure/response for each player.

Like, I do not think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking is a good thing.
However, I do think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking as scum is a good thing.
Then, I do think lynching lurkers, with a history of lurking as scum, but is otherwise very active as town, is a very good thing.

I think that's the gist of how meta-cases are formed, and why my scumbuddy last game (Serela) folded quite optimally under the pressure from sb, a player who knew his meta very well.

I don't think I am doing the meta-casing quite right, since Bardiche did call me out on bullying which I became quite allergic to, probably subconcious guilt because I too myself am uncertain of Dormio's alignment.

But anyway, amongst the lurkers meow/Abu/beru this discussion is not helpful to lead to further lynches.

Its like the town massclaim discussion, it was fine when we had 3 days to deadline, now we have less than 1.5 days.

We should focus on the players who have had activity, and start there.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 12:19:22 PM
Fortunately or unfortunately, Zoomy you appear to be filling in some really big shoes, can I hopefully ask you to stretch yourself and also ask some probing questions for the actives?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 12:28:43 PM
No in this meta it really doesn't seem possible I'll agree there.

However, this does not mean said lurkers are absolved from prodding and being asked things by the actually active players.

But okay, if you think you want to go off lurk meta instead, give me a rundown of who you think out of Yaer/Meow/Abu isn't like their past game self, activity-wise, if any.

Going off who has already been active is hard when abotu 2/3rds of the game honestly have not done thaaat much in the grand scheme of things. We limit the pool to you, Zeep, Dormio, Daiya and Raikaria (at least imo). I'm not even confident at all in lynching within this pool at the moment, since I'm reading you a lot better since I subbed in and have had this dialogue with you.

Serela does kind of sit in a grey middle area of "said a lot but also not a lot at all" because they've had a lot of posts during the Dormio V Zeep thing which amounted to basically just game theory with little push for any sort of reads. I know they want you lynched and would consolidate on Beru but otherwise not much has been actually divulged there. Would be okay to lynch Serela also as a result of this if needs be.

But sure, I can ask more questions for the actives, I might reread before doing so though just to get an even better grasp on how things are panning out and what needs to be asked.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 03, 2020, 12:41:05 PM
I scumread Yaer for being very liberal with vote swaps in Ys Mafia, but now has revised that history to 'voteparking on me' which seems to allude to PX's strategy in scumbussing me last game.

Yaer truly did votepark on me all day, until the wagon is now mostly dispersed, I think that's a hard scumread from me.

Meow was playing his first game here and lynched D1, both for tactfulness and for game experience I think we can let Meow pass without lynching him D1 again.

Abu is weird, I don't exactly town-lean on him, I lean-SK on Abu because that seems the closest to supporting my pro-SK plan without involving himself, I recall well Abu asked if we 'lynch Waffles for offering a bad plan' after said plan was executed, but not really much protest before the plan could be prevented.

I lean SK-ish on Abu and Dormio, for reasons I already discussed.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 03, 2020, 01:16:33 PM
I'm here to avoid a prod. I'll catch up in a bit.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:21:51 PM
Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 03, 2020, 01:22:02 PM
read the thread

it wins games i promise you
I did, actually, this response strikes me as if you're trying to dodge my questions.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:24:39 PM
Zwerdjib - Generates many posts, but for all that, there isn't actually a whole lot of different stuff in them. Very limited scope of interactions despite volume.
I'd like for you to expand on this line of thought if possible? What interactions are you noticing and how are they framed(e.g positive or negative)? I think this is a summary that can be leveraged at a few people right now.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:37:05 PM
I did, actually, this response strikes me as if you're trying to dodge my questions.

no ive answered any question youve asked within the thread

just read
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
hello there zoomy whose alt is this

i swear i should recognize this but mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:39:07 PM
I'm not sure why of all people Daiya is appealing to be for information on other players. It does seem somewhat like a Serela thing to do however, it's... well... wafflely. It almost seems like something Serela intended almost by accident.

-game theory snip-

Also; combining with my curiosity as to why Daiya is reffering to me about Serela... his beef with yaer could basically be applied to me. Yet not only am I not given as a scumread, but if Daiya is asking me specifically for meta info instead of Dormio or some other long-term player, that suggests Daiya trusts me?

I find this a little odd. Especially with how much Daiya is pushing 'gamesolving'. Part of gamesolving is making a case to convince everyone else you've solved the game.
Also I know I said I'd vote but the worst thing I've seen so far is Zeep's massclaim suggestion which I still see as misguided town rather than scum.

I mean if I had to vote I'd vote for Zeep due to that... but I don't think it's worth voting andI actually think such a vote considering MotK D1 habits would do more harm than good.
These two posts next to each other feel really conflicting, I'm doubting the conviction behind sussing out Daiya. Feels like saying words and throwing suspicion for the sake of it.
@Raikaria: Can you give some semblance of a reads list right now? Small blurbs as to why at least are preferred.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:40:19 PM
hello there zoomy whose alt is this

i swear i should recognize this but mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Hi, I'm nobody's alt uwu
We've never met but it's nice to make your acquaintance, do you have any thoughts on anything I've said? Would be open to a dialogue, lets suss things out.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:41:51 PM
Hi, I'm nobody's alt uwu
We've never met but it's nice to make your acquaintance, do you have any thoughts on anything I've said? Would be open to a dialogue, lets suss things out.

Quote
We've never met

No

Quote
do you have any thoughts on anything I've said?

later
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 03, 2020, 01:42:16 PM
You said zeep, though
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:42:43 PM
I read the other games on here and just picked up saying the nickname, much nicer than zwerdijib tbh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 03, 2020, 01:43:41 PM
I have a feeling that Zoomy is smartbomb.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
I have a feeling that Zoomy is smartbomb.

would smartbomb intentionally misspell zwerdjib to fit in?

dont think so
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 03, 2020, 01:50:09 PM
This feels pretty disingenuous admittedly when I feel like I offered a lot of things to reflect off of and ppl are more concerned about if I'm an alt or not :/
But ok, I can nix the nicknaming and maintain a formal distance, oops.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
like i said

Quote
later
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 01:53:31 PM
dont worry about it, just dont call me zeep
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 03, 2020, 03:36:49 PM

Currently, I want to townread Bardiche, Serela, raikaria. They did nice content without making things too difficult to read for the audience, I would like to think that comes from a town-motivated place.

Like, I do not think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking is a good thing.
However, I do think lynching lurkers with a history of lurking as scum is a good thing.
Then, I do think lynching lurkers, with a history of lurking as scum, but is otherwise very active as town, is a very good thing.

I think that's the gist of how meta-cases are formed, and why my scumbuddy last game (Serela) folded quite optimally under the pressure from sb, a player who knew his meta very well.
dunno how these two line up together. what exactly is so nice about serela's content, and what's different about his gameplay now than when you were scumbuddies. he's active lurking the same way that he was last time
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 03, 2020, 03:40:59 PM
I scumread Yaer for being very liberal with vote swaps in Ys Mafia, but now has revised that history to 'voteparking on me' which seems to allude to PX's strategy in scumbussing me last game.

Yaer truly did votepark on me all day, until the wagon is now mostly dispersed, I think that's a hard scumread from me.
why are you not voting for your hard scumread?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 03, 2020, 05:18:59 PM
These two posts next to each other feel really conflicting, I'm doubting the conviction behind sussing out Daiya. Feels like saying words and throwing suspicion for the sake of it.
@Raikaria: Can you give some semblance of a reads list right now? Small blurbs as to why at least are preferred.

Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

The votes on me are fair, my last post(s) are definitely devoid of any real content lmao. I'd sort of like to join the beru wagon but I know I'm almost as guilty as they are of not really being able to find much to talk about so I can kind of sympathize? OK that sounded better in my head, actually typing it out almost makes me want to vote myself ZZZZZZZZZ Still tho', they're definitely doing even less than me.

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

Daiya - I don't like anyone buddying up to me by slight town reading me for a post in the early early game. I've done strawberries since, how does that weigh up to being slightly town for commenting on zwerdjib's early early game?

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

This game is hard.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 05:26:57 PM
Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

This game is hard.

hence

Quote
It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.

passive gameplay.

i would like to clarify that passive doesnt mean "lurking". it means "showing up to seem like you want to play the game but really youre not doing anything"

thank you, raikaria. i had to remember to define passive gameplay

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 03, 2020, 06:51:24 PM
@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 06:57:10 PM
i guess its time to do what tsugumi asked me to do one sec
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 03, 2020, 07:27:58 PM
zoomy comes in and makes big posts and everyone is only interested in accusing them of lying about not playing mafia in awhile and trying to figure out who they're pretending not to be *facepalms* zoomy is an actual member of this forum who did not magically just appear out of nowhere, they are not an alt of anyone.

also they're doing great so far!

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???.
All I'd been saying is if a different townie is a submarine they should maybe claim it (and otherwise was against claiming), you took the idea a step further

Nucleus' latest post is leagues ahead of his previous stuff and actually pretty good. I do actually agree that his behavior doesn't really seem mafia in the long run either but the early play does significantly suggest he might be ITP. Still, if he's starting to actually do a good job and look like not-mafia, there's always nukes later if we still suspect ITP, I guess.

##Unvote

Someone asked me if I think zwerd/dormio is a town/town spat; I think dormio looks fine enough right now, been trying to figure out where I stand on zwerd and I don't know which is why I haven't been commenting on it much

Quote from: Bard
Serela's admission that he doesn't care what's going on runs counter to his usual stance as Town (which is to care a whole lot), and combined with vacuous ramblings, I'm fairly happy with just staring at my pulchritudinous vote right now.
don't care as in, none of the content so far was interesting in a way that helps me get a read on anyone. Day one is terrible and mafia is hard, these are eternal truths that I always believe in

Yaer has been consistently attempting to put pressure on people today and for their level of mafia skill i think they're doing pretty well

I feel like Abu, beru and meow just kind of 'exist' which is uh, poor

...I wasn't meaning to touch on every player but this post has done so apart from rai/bard/daiya, I previously commented rai is looking pretty solid, i think bard is fine so far, don't really have a stance on daiya atm but they're at least pressuring waffles and have been posting regularlyish

OK so I have a vote to use with waffles improving now, and there's Abu/beru/meow on the consideration list. I think... the only thing Beru's done is make some offhanded comments about zwerd that mostly weren't even about this game?? Meow's new so they're a bit lower priority for this at the moment, and Abu has... hmm, followed Dormio's case on zwerd, but he's at least pestered Zwerd a bit himself as well so between him and Beru it's a pretty clear choice

##Vote Beru

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 07:40:26 PM
Nyello, haven't played Mafia in about 6 years so apologies if I'm rusty on terminology and stuff.

I've been spectating this game (and the other ones played here since the reboot) and so I've got a few thoughts.

Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

@Serela: Do you think Dormio vs Zeep is Town/Town? You had a lot of game theory opinion but didn't really delve much into how you feel about either player.

@meow: Pick two targets for a lynch right now, who do you choose?

@Abu: I understand you're sheeping Dormio with the Zeep case, but do you have any suspicions of your own that you're examining right now?


I think that's everything so far?

CUT BY NUCLEUS: Ok I feel a little better about your posting style right now, keep this up and we can have some dialogue

okay, lets go

Quote
Mostly the biggest thing that is worrying me is the apathy and the active lurking a lot of people are exhibiting, a demoralised town is a town that isn't going to win strawberries so I'd rather we can start poking more people that aren't talking rather than letting other people have spats and everyone else giving bare minimum sideline commentary. At least one or two scum are quite likely lurking in this pool. Meow, Serela, Beru, Abu are the ppl I'm really talking about.

i follow. i copy. i agree. i think at this point its going to be much easier to resolve a lurker slot than say dormio so im fine with a gameplan like this.

Quote
I'm not happy with Nucleus' slot, I'm concerned that their behaviour and posting style takes way too much control over the narratives of the day. Which lets scum lurk more to victory and confuses town, so regardless of their alignment they're definitely anti-town. I can be convinced they're third party and would be happy to lynch if it's the only viable option come deadline, but I'd rather keep my vote and pressure elsewhere at the moment.

also a thought process i agree with. i think im different in that im not sure if nucleuss belligerence is intentional or comes from years of not having played (and fwict having his first game in a while be a mafia roll?). i like to look at stuff like this within context. he is harming the town but i dont think people have really expressed to him what part of his act is actively harmful

Quote
Beru basically admits in every other post to active lurking and not caring. Including seemingly agreeing(?) on Nucleus as a Third Party with no vote on that slot and no other real reads beyond ambiguous paranoia shade at zeep?? So I think I want to
##Vote:Beru
Maybe this will do something.

i mean i dont disagree but... hmm. im kind of seeing like. is beru the slot that i want to try and solve out first? berus not gonna try anyway afaict so wouldnt it just be easier to ask nucleus to nuke them or something? generates less complaints and still leaves the vote open

Quote
I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around. Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

breaking this down

Quote
I'm liking Daiya and Dormio and Raik, not too much meat into these reads beyond gut and the fact that they seem like they're pushing for things with the idea of actually solving the game rather than fluffing around.

hmmm where do you get that impression from? i want to know. you asked for a dialogue and hence i shall give you one. tell me. i know you say "gut reads" but youll still have something to say besides that. everyone does.

Quote
Zeep too I'm leaning town although the massclaim seems stupid.

WAGA NAMAE DE WA NAI

i mean it makes sense on paper i just didnt realize half of us would be afk for the game

:vVVVVVV

Quote
Yaer I'm null reading atm, Bard I'm leaning town on. Nothing really to say about either just yet.

yaer is fine. bard seems like hes trying to uh... understand the game in his own way so sure

Quote
I'm against all forms of mass claiming right now, both from it giving too much away and the fact that I'd honestly hate for this to be a role gaming game from the get go because I never liked those mafia games.

We're going to do it eventually.

NEXT post

I think lurking is an inherently anti-town action especially when people are basically coming in to prod dodge and not further the game state in any meaningful way.
I understand cutting down on overall fluff but that can also be achieved by town consolidating posts where possible and keeping things concise.
I mean theoretically the 4 people I listed could contain the entire scumteam and the third party but it's statistically unlikely and too convenient, I'm sure at least one or two are town and just need to be doing a lot better.

You find out more about people's alignments the more they post and if a proper read could be had on any of them it's one step closer to solving the game. It should be wholly unacceptable to just lurk the whole time.

yeah sure

i think you care more about this game than a lot of people so im beginning to think you might be green

NEXT POST

Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

obligatory separatory post so this doesnt look awkward

Quote
Ok, I've changed minds a bit upon a reread, Raikaria, much like Serela, has said a lot of words, but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving. Not so happy about that slot anymore

id like you to differentiate the two for me

Quote
Zeep I'm really not keen on lynching, I'm reading him very hard as someone who has come in, guns a blazin', and is trying to get somewhere with the game. The massclaim felt like a "haha gotcha" moment that was ill thought out hence his hard pushing for it despite nobody actually agreeing. Not to mention that it seems easy for people to have sheeped the case set forth by Dormio without much thought (Yaer especially has sheeped the case hard and not really put forth any other notable observations, Abu as well).

thats still not my name

.
.
.

see thats exactly what was meant to happen

i ran the numbers through in my head and it totally made sense

i just failed to run them more than one time

i think thats all

im tired going to play some wt probably bye
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
zoomy comes in and makes big posts and everyone is only interested in accusing them of lying about not playing mafia in awhile and trying to figure out who they're pretending not to be *facepalms* zoomy is an actual member of this forum who did not magically just appear out of nowhere, they are not an alt of anyone.

also they're doing great so far!

no, if i had taken the care to iso them beforehand i likely would have noticed that, yes, they are a normal person and not an alt. my bad.

do appreciate their posts and went over why in the post (hopefully) above this one
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 03, 2020, 09:18:42 PM
me: hewwo what's going on in this thread

thread: do you like mech spec

me: knowing what roles the town have is only useful for the mafia so what if we didn't do that

lol.

I understand if people want me to post more but I don't know any of you so I can't judge yall what well based on their meta except for zeepy zeep who I posted about already? it doesn't feel like anyone is doing anything like... obviously scummy. where's the postcount counter. where's the iso feature. what year is this. I wanna be lazy

I'm not going to ask for a meta primer because that would be too much work from one person but if uhhh individuals wish to volunteer their own metas to me I wouldn't say no

also I'm not reading any of nuclear's posts because I've already decided that he is too annoying and I hate him but I haven't ignorelisted him yet soooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 03, 2020, 09:23:37 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Abu

Abu you haven't really said much of any real substance, gimme some juicy opinions. Including but not limited to Serela and Raikaria if you will.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 03, 2020, 09:45:56 PM
where's the postcount counter. where's the iso feature. what year is this. I wanna be lazy

also I'm not reading any of nuclear's posts because I've already decided that he is too annoying and I hate him but I haven't ignorelisted him yet soooooooooooooo
click on someone's name to get to their profile, on the left there'll be a green "show posts" button

Nuclear's latest posts are actually pretty rational and readable so I recommend looking at these two, #284 and #287
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7785#msg7785
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7793#msg7793
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
beru is scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 03, 2020, 09:58:54 PM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Echo

Beru (3) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsugumi, Serela
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Daiya (1) - zwerdjib
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (4) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, NucleusWaffles

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 03, 2020, 09:59:48 PM
Elaborate please Zwerd.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 03, 2020, 10:33:50 PM
me: you know guys, zeep is probably a villager

zeep: beru is scum

thanks zeep. appreciate it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 03, 2020, 11:06:36 PM
click on someone's name to get to their profile, on the left there'll be a green "show posts" button

Nuclear's latest posts are actually pretty rational and readable so I recommend looking at these two, #284 and #287
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7785#msg7785
https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7793#msg7793
ok but that shows all their posts on the entire forum... I mean I guess it works but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. thank u tho

oh no it's more nuclear posts that I hate. I don't agree with replacements being v because where I come from replacements were lynched on sight because they were always scum. I've mellowed on it for a bit but if anyone is replacing out due to alignment it's probably scum tbh

like I like that nuclear is having thoughts that aren't trying to convince everyone to commit mass suicide but considering that he has already demonstrated his ability to vomit bullstrawberries all over the thread I can't really trust his process or his conclusions tbqh.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 03, 2020, 11:07:24 PM
I like this profanity filter and I will put as many fire trucking swears as I can into a single fire trucking post in order to see more glorious strawberries
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 03, 2020, 11:40:37 PM
Elaborate please Zwerd.

i meant to do this and forgot
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 12:19:19 AM
i meant to do this and forgot

i forgot again
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 12:24:18 AM
basically beru is acting like i did in uhh... the neo forum mafia game

which i scumread
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 04, 2020, 01:36:15 AM
You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 01:39:37 AM
Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.
What's different about Yaer?
Are you actually scumreading Nucleus or is it just convenient and decluttering?

This is really low effort, I'm quite disappointed honestly
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 01:45:45 AM
Oh I wasn't suspecting Daiya in particular, I was just querying an inconsistency. An inconsistency that worked to my benefit at that.

Also; I don't like giving out townreads. I think that those paint targets on people for scum to kill trusted townies.

There's also a bunch of nullreads that basically haven't done much, if anything.

I think Nucleus is unlikly to be scum, given that he does seem to be attempting to advance the gamestate. However, that is a very specific thing. I don't think he can't be a 3rd party; just trying to earn potential towncred and be seen to try and lead, and his 'nuke everyone' idea leaves a sour taste. This is more a 'Probably not Mafia' read than a Townread.

I've already stated how I don't like Zwerdjib's massclaim idea, but I think it comes from more a misguided townie stance. That said; he's gone back to posting a lot but not actually saying much. Which he did as scum before.

I kinda like Serela's 'we can confirm roles that exist in the game' idea, that's why I went along with it. I think it gives scum far less information than a Massclaim does. Although Serela seems to pass away credit for the idea and give it to me which is just a major ???. And while I like his role info idea, I really don't like this statement:

I mean even by Serela standards this is Waffle.  "My posts are lacking content to the point I wanna vote myself but there's people even worse" is what I boil this down to... which isn't really scumhunting and is basically a self-admission of low effort.

Regarding Daiya; I want to point out a point from Bardiche in tandem with my earlier point about Daiya's inconsistancy:

It does almost feel like Daiya is attempting to ride the coattails of people who other players are reading as Town. First asking me for advice [While not painting me with the same points other players were targeted with that would have been entirely valid for me] and also this buddying thing from Bardiche. Not inherently scummy but certainly interesting behavior.
So basically all I got from this post is "I wasn't suspecting Daiya, but Daiya is suspicious, but it's not scum, but it's interesting"
As well as, "Nucleus is probably not scum but also possibly 3rd party but probably not scum"
And also, "I like Serela's partial massclaim idea, but then they did something suspicious" <this should have had more thoughts after?

Like, idk, there's zero conviction here to me, it really feels as if you are still saying words just to say words and act like you're going somewhere. Why aren't you voting anyone?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 01:47:23 AM
You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

LITERALLY exactly this yes

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 01:49:22 AM
*but it's not scummy, but it's interesting
got to amend that typo

Someone asked me if I think zwerd/dormio is a town/town spat; I think dormio looks fine enough right now, been trying to figure out where I stand on zwerd and I don't know which is why I haven't been commenting on it much
I would like more of your thought processes here, I want to know what's giving you so much pause on zwerd, both the good and the bad.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 01:54:48 AM
oh welcome back zoomy

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 02:02:14 AM
You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?

bro I literally think everyone who is posting is towny

I should probably read the playerlist to see who isn't posting tbh because I actually don't know who all of the players are and it feels like the thread is just zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and uhhhh yeah that's it. yes I'm not including you this is the first post I remember from you

I could probably form actual reads if I sat down on my computer and looked at posts properly but uh. feels like doing work and I don't want playing a game to feel like doing work, I wanna have fun playing a game. not spicy enough in here for my usual fun level tho.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 02:06:31 AM
bro I literally think everyone who is posting is towny

I should probably read the playerlist to see who isn't posting tbh because I actually don't know who all of the players are and it feels like the thread is just zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and uhhhh yeah that's it. yes I'm not including you this is the first post I remember from you

I could probably form actual reads if I sat down on my computer and looked at posts properly but uh. feels like doing work and I don't want playing a game to feel like doing work, I wanna have fun playing a game. not spicy enough in here for my usual fun level tho.

see nothing personal but like

yeah

townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 02:07:35 AM
also a thought process i agree with. i think im different in that im not sure if nucleuss belligerence is intentional or comes from years of not having played (and fwict having his first game in a while be a mafia roll?). i like to look at stuff like this within context. he is harming the town but i dont think people have really expressed to him what part of his act is actively harmful
I feel like it's eccentricity and ambition which is always going to be a blessing and a curse that's going to follow him into either alignment, but he's a lot more lucid and understandable roughly after I replaced in so I'm feeling better. The excessive gambiting and overextending just made his posts feel all over the place. He's probably going to read this so I guess to contextualise what feels bad I'll say that, to me, all of the posts before then just read like the mafia equivalent of "I made an AI sit through 300 hours of law commercials and made it write a law commercial for me." Which is uh, a lot of thoughts that feel loosely coherent but also not.

Quote
i mean i dont disagree but... hmm. im kind of seeing like. is beru the slot that i want to try and solve out first? berus not gonna try anyway afaict so wouldnt it just be easier to ask nucleus to nuke them or something? generates less complaints and still leaves the vote open
I don't disagree here either but I figure I can use my vote as extra pressure but it seems like he's not biting. Contextualised also with this post after yours
oh no it's more nuclear posts that I hate. I don't agree with replacements being v because where I come from replacements were lynched on sight because they were always scum. I've mellowed on it for a bit but if anyone is replacing out due to alignment it's probably scum tbh
Which shades my slot but I've heard neither hide nor hair of actual dialogue with or thoughts about me (or even my predecessor?). Like there's absolutely nothing getting accomplished here.

Quote
hmmm where do you get that impression from? i want to know. you asked for a dialogue and hence i shall give you one. tell me. i know you say "gut reads" but youll still have something to say besides that. everyone does.
I mean this was pre-replace in following along reads so admittedly I wasn't paying the most attention (which is why Raik's actual lack of doing anything slipped past my view, oops). I'm basing a lot of reads right now on who is actually trying to play and make things happen, which is also why I'm bothered by the extreme apathy a lot of users are presenting. In a lot of circumstances it is harder for scum to push cases on people who aren't scum so nobody having clear scumreads and a lot of people not doing much about it is really muddying my interpretations.

Basically I believe Dormio's intent and investment especially wrt making the case on you, it felt like it was coming from a place of someone who saw something sus and wanted to push it because of genuine belief that they'd found someone anti-town. Daiya as well is doing a fair bit to promote dialogue and shows conviction in their posts. They're not strong reads but I'm treating them with conviction so as to avoid the dreaded waffling.

Quote
id like you to differentiate the two for me
It's quite hard to at this moment, I could see both of them being scum honestly since they're both guilty of similar things. If i had to choose one over the other I'd rather lynch Raik because at least Serela is being more openly self aware at the lack of doing anything which can be read a bit more like "town who is struggling to get a foothold" but I'd rather they both go tbh.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 02:12:53 AM
oh, no, i meant

Quote
but a lot of it is also just game theory without that much alignment solving.

can you differentiate the two terms
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 02:14:32 AM
I would like more of your thought processes here, I want to know what's giving you so much pause on zwerd, both the good and the bad.
ehhh, but it's not really a conflicted read so much as I don't have a strong opinion either way. On the upside, he's continuing to be one of the more active players, which is generally a good sign? of course scum can be active too though so it doesn't mean a lot, but at least around here they're more often... not :U

every one of beru's responses is an excuse for not reading the game and uh
yeah guys it's time to lynch beru ain't it

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 02:16:34 AM
I guess at this point I'd rather we look into Raik/Serela/Beru as main lynch priorities but I could consolidate on meow (who after my prod still did not offer that much to work with), Yaer I'm probably the next least sure of but at the same time I'm willing to let them cook on things and live another day.

CUT:
oh, no, i meant

can you differentiate the two terms
oh, well i mean game theory as what other people are saying wrt something like just talking about how to approach the game re: things like how to go about claims and other mafia theory topics as opposed to alignment solving which is forming opinions and pushing thoughts and actually coming to conclusions on specific individuals. Raik's said a lot of stuff that's objective discussion about the game as opposed to the subjective nature of actually playing the game and figuring things out.
Ok this sounds like a lot of fluff but I hope you get what I mean lol.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 02:20:50 AM
I guess at this point I'd rather we look into Raik/Serela/Beru as main lynch priorities but I could consolidate on meow (who after my prod still did not offer that much to work with), Yaer I'm probably the next least sure of but at the same time I'm willing to let them cook on things and live another day.

CUT:oh, well i mean game theory as what other people are saying wrt something like just talking about how to approach the game re: things like how to go about claims and other mafia theory topics as opposed to alignment solving which is forming opinions and pushing thoughts and actually coming to conclusions on specific individuals. Raik's said a lot of stuff that's objective discussion about the game as opposed to the subjective nature of actually playing the game and figuring things out.
Ok this sounds like a lot of fluff but I hope you get what I mean lol.

no that makes sense sure
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 02:47:17 AM
see nothing personal but like

yeah

townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum

if I was a wolf then I would actually have people to scumread, tho :^)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 03:27:43 AM
am I allowed to say that my scumreads are all the players that aren't zeep, nuclear, cereal, raik, dormio, the new guy, and me

or at the least, nullreads. and I guess itp in nuclear's case

if you haven't had any impact on the game I'm just not going to like u even if I don't know who u are. like me not knowing that you're playing is kind of the problem

idk when eod is but if you really want to I can get on the computer sometime around 20 hours from now (my gf is here and getting laid is more important than playing mafia I'm sorry)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 03:33:30 AM
idk when eod is but if you really want to I can get on the computer sometime around 20 hours from now (my gf is here and getting laid is more important than playing mafia I'm sorry)
(https://puu.sh/FSrmj.png)
CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 04, 2020, 03:49:45 AM

Alright, Zoomy came in with the force of the tempest and drive a case on beru.
Beru's response under pressure does seem townish, I think I would rather lynch Yaersulf, my primary scumread for switching voting styles without actually acknowledging my votepark accusation.

##Unvote

##Vote Yaersulf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 04, 2020, 03:50:30 AM
Apologies for not being able to derive a bigger case, but such is deadlines and we have more than enough material to digest.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 03:53:52 AM
(https://puu.sh/FSrmj.png)
CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??

no, beru is actually gay
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 03:54:40 AM
Beru's response under pressure does seem townish
You're absolutely going to need to explain this
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 03:54:59 AM
You're absolutely going to need to explain this

verbatim my thoughts
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 04:57:25 AM
ugh i feel like theres literally nothing more i can do this game
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 05:01:34 AM
ugh i feel like theres literally nothing more i can do this game
Verbatim my thoughts
Kinda just waiting for more people to comment.
Can I convince you to join the Beru wagon? Your vote on Daiya is doing nothing
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 05:04:39 AM
Verbatim my thoughts
Kinda just waiting for more people to comment.
Can I convince you to join the Beru wagon? Your vote on Daiya is doing nothing


i guess

##vote beruwu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 04, 2020, 05:10:43 AM
You're absolutely going to need to explain this

I was also at that point with L-2 before, so I can psychologically relate to that state of mind of being pressured but not really motivated to defend myself too hard.

Beru's response here is quite similar to me, he didn't panic and did not seem scummy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 05:16:50 AM
I'm still not really seeing how it's not scummy.
From my POV there seems to be minimal acknowledgement of the pressure and no real change in behaviour from pre>post votes.

If there was scumhunting from his end involved I could chalk it up to "I'm not going to defend myself but let my actions speak for themselves in due time" but there's no attempt to try and figure out the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 05:23:29 AM
(https://puu.sh/FSrmj.png)
CAUGHT IN A FIB

also i think deadline is in like 16 hours actually

and no I don't think "my scumreads are the people i don't remember being in the game" is a good look when you don't actually seem to have any idea what any of them have or have not done... like the core concept is actually ok but then you stopped at the first step and didn't proceed to step 2 or 3??

people who are doing things want to solve the game and are therefore townie? and from this it can be extrapolated that people who are not doing things are scummy? it's not hard

apologies for not writing 5000 words on the subject but I am level 0ing this, it's not hard

also I'm a they
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 05:54:34 AM
townreading people as scum is proportionally much easier than scumreading as scum

Isn't this true for Town as well?

Also the fact Beru's attitude hasn't really changed under pressure I think is a towntell? He's not panicing or anything. Scum would naturally be a lot more self-preservative. Also I guess I kind of emphaise with Beru's 'I think everyone who's actually trying to do something is townie' stance because I have a rather similar stance.

Also; I think it's worth mentioning again. Often in MotK Town D1 the people actually posting content are town but other townies make cases on them because they're the ones with the content to make cases out of, and we often end with Town v Town D1 with Scum lurking or low-efforting.

To be fair; Beru hasn't actually done much. But there are many players who have done far less.

Like; you have abu/meow who have done literally nothing; Dormio's actually done hardly anything, same with Yasulf. You could even throw Bardiche in here alright what he has posted I like.

I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least one scum among these 5.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 05:56:16 AM
Anyway I got work and it's a long shift today so... yeah.

I'm not inherently against a Beru lynch but I don't want to just park on that wagon for 10~11 hours without being able to adjust for any developments.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Bardiche on June 04, 2020, 08:37:52 AM
I'm alive, but also, I'm not. I'll respond in-depth to developments later (TM), just nothing on a skim stuck out enough to want to switch off Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 04, 2020, 09:45:50 AM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Foxtrot

Beru (4) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsugumi, Serela, Zwerdjib
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
Daiya (0) -
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 10:17:52 AM
I really dislike how so many people have yet to post anything significant. Or just anything at all.
The Chihiro slot is a void right now, NuclearWaffles is either going to be lynched or nuked at the soonest opportunity, and Yaersulf/Daiya/meow56/AbuHumaid/beru basically don't exist.
Selery is posting but being extremely useless, zwerdjib I dislike due to reasons that I've iterated plenty of times I feel, and raikaria/Bardiche are shining beacons of sanity in these dark times.

What I'm basically trying to say is that I hate mafia.
I think a fair bit more has happened now, have your thoughts changed from this at all?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 04, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
Work sucks. Anyway.

Still don't like zwerdjib. On top of what I've said earlier, I'm not a big fan of relatively neutral stance he takes with regards to Zoomy. In his first big post here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7818#msg7818), he makes the statement "i think you care more about this game than a lot of people so im beginning to think you might be green" which is a really weak statement coming from the person who just outright states things like "beru is scum" (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7825#msg7825). Like his previous townreads were worded much more definitely "raikaria is probably town"]/[url=https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660]"serela is probably t." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) and it irks me. Like, it sounds to me as though he was being a bit indecisive and wanted to leave his options open on being able to swap his read really quickly if Zoomy's following posts looked scummy.
On top of that, I don't really like this statement here "i follow. i copy. i agree. i think at this point its going to be much easier to resolve a lurker slot than say dormio so im fine with a gameplan like this." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7818#msg7818) Like zwerdjib thinks that I'm scum. I'm pretty sure he hasn't changed his opinion on this. But he's content not to push me because he thinks it's easier to push a lurker. Yep, I definitely don't like this one bit.

Other opinions include Zoomy sounding incredibly sane, and NuclearWaffles toning it down a bit. I still think NuclearWaffles is going to be nuked at the soonest opportunity, so that's a whatever from me.

Serela continues to exist and... not much more. Not liking this at all.
beru, AbuHumaid, Yaersulf, and meow56 are all dead slots that need to be prodded with many sticks to get them to post more opinions. Too bad I think the only thing more inactive than these slots is our mod.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 04, 2020, 11:28:53 AM
Work sucks. Anyway.
"raikaria is probably town"]/[url=https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660]"serela is probably t." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) and it irks me.

I believe this is a heavy Dormio scum/SK scumtell. He almost never bothers to make a post difficult to parse as town, and he is completely absent since our scuffle which Bardiche chainsaw defended him out of.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 04, 2020, 11:35:53 AM
Like his previous townreads were worded much more definitely "raikaria is probably town" (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647)/"serela is probably t." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660) and it irks me.
EBWOP
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 02:28:27 PM
Ok, I've been pondering it this evening and I'm not really as confident on my Beru read anymore, I think I was partly getting tilted at the open lack of care for the game but I can see a bit better now what people mean by towntelling the (lack of) reaction to pressure enough to not feel good about the lynch over other options.
##Unvote

I'm off to sleep v v soon but I'll be around hopefully within a few hrs before deadline. I'm honestly eyeing a Raik lynch but will be ok lynching the lurkers (especially bothered by meow and Abu) or Serela. Not interested in lynching zwerd today so if it were up to me that wagon would be dismantled and it's voters would move elsewhere. It's kind of insane to me that we still have 3 non-voters this late into the day.

Isn't this true for Town as well?

Also the fact Beru's attitude hasn't really changed under pressure I think is a towntell? He's not panicing or anything. Scum would naturally be a lot more self-preservative. Also I guess I kind of emphaise with Beru's 'I think everyone who's actually trying to do something is townie' stance because I have a rather similar stance.

Also; I think it's worth mentioning again. Often in MotK Town D1 the people actually posting content are town but other townies make cases on them because they're the ones with the content to make cases out of, and we often end with Town v Town D1 with Scum lurking or low-efforting.

To be fair; Beru hasn't actually done much. But there are many players who have done far less.

Like; you have abu/meow who have done literally nothing; Dormio's actually done hardly anything, same with Yasulf. You could even throw Bardiche in here alright what he has posted I like.

I would be very surprised if there wasn't at least one scum among these 5.
These 3 underlines statements fall into what I mentioned of being objective discussion of the game, and the rest at best are weak sounding reads. Coupling this with the fact that Raik has literally never put a vote down or given a strong scumread on anyone I'm convinced there's no actual desire to get the ball rolling on anything.
##Vote: Raikaria
I'm parking my vote here while I sleep.

Oh, and, @Mod: You have Yaersulf twice in the vc.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 03:58:14 PM
Work sucks. Anyway.

Still don't like zwerdjib. On top of what I've said earlier, I'm not a big fan of relatively neutral stance he takes with regards to Zoomy. In his first big post here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7818#msg7818), he makes the statement "i think you care more about this game than a lot of people so im beginning to think you might be green" which is a really weak statement coming from the person who just outright states things like "beru is scum" (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7825#msg7825). Like his previous townreads were worded much more definitely "raikaria is probably town"]/[url=https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7660#msg7660]"serela is probably t." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7647#msg7647) and it irks me. Like, it sounds to me as though he was being a bit indecisive and wanted to leave his options open on being able to swap his read really quickly if Zoomy's following posts looked scummy.
On top of that, I don't really like this statement here "i follow. i copy. i agree. i think at this point its going to be much easier to resolve a lurker slot than say dormio so im fine with a gameplan like this." (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7818#msg7818) Like zwerdjib thinks that I'm scum. I'm pretty sure he hasn't changed his opinion on this. But he's content not to push me because he thinks it's easier to push a lurker. Yep, I definitely don't like this one bit.

Other opinions include Zoomy sounding incredibly sane, and NuclearWaffles toning it down a bit. I still think NuclearWaffles is going to be nuked at the soonest opportunity, so that's a whatever from me.

Serela continues to exist and... not much more. Not liking this at all.
beru, AbuHumaid, Yaersulf, and meow56 are all dead slots that need to be prodded with many sticks to get them to post more opinions. Too bad I think the only thing more inactive than these slots is our mod.

oh for fire trucks sake
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 04, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
I'd like to call attention to the fact that Abu hasn't answered my request for his opinions on people. Seeing as I haven't done the same I'll do so so that my request isn't so hypocritical.

DTL(Down to Lynch): Abu, Nuclearwaffles, Beru
Got my eye on you >_>: Zwerdjib, Meow
Not sure: Serela, Raikaria, Daiya, Bardiche
Team Systemic Racism(A.K.A 'Murica, A.K.A Town): Dormio, Zoomy Tsugumi
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 05:42:21 PM
I'm back from work.

I'm not particularly pleased with Zoomy's case on me but hey I'm biased on that one. As I've repeatedly said; it's rather difficult to make a case when there's no content to make a case on. Also it's not like I'm the only one to not feel confident enough to place a vote. But that would be beating a dead horse. And again, the effort feels more misguided town than scum.

Also if I'm keeping track of time we only have like 4 hours left now? So consolidation becomes a thing.

Geez this is the worst Day 1. Hopefully some flips will give us some info to help me actually be able to make something Day 2.

Anyway:

1. Serela
2. Daiya
3. Beru
4. zwerdjib
5. nucleuswaffles
6. Dormio
7. Yaersulf
8. Bardiche
9. Meow56
10. Raikaria
11.  Zoomy Tsugumi
12.Abu

Red are people I'm very open to lynch. Abu/Meow haven't done anything at all of any relevance at all, and Beru isn't much better. I think most people have expressed this already.

Yellow are people I'm not 100% on lynching and are not priorities; but I'm willing to consolidate on:

Serela has his weird waffles and trying to pin his idea's credit on me for some weird reason.

Daiya has the strange appeals to other players that both me and Bardiche have pointed out

Zwerdjib has the massclaim idea at ED1 which I disliked and has done his usual tapering off since; which he did as scum before.

Nucleus is only yellow because I think he's more likly ITP than actually scum if he's not Town.

Dormio I'm fine with lynching because I haven't really been impressed with anything he's posted. That said; Dormio is probobly the lowest priority yellow.

Yaersulf hasn't done much either but I do get the feeling he's actually trying somewhat when he does post something.

I wouldn't support a Bard, Zoomy, or myself lynch. I don't like giving townreads but eh. Those are the only people I have an outright townread on. Everyone else is very slight townread ~ Null or worse.

BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SO LITTLE CONTENT FOR ME TO MAKE READS FROM *HEADDESK*


While I would personally rather an Abu/Meow lynch on the simple basis of them being completely useless; we only have a few hours so...

##Vote: Beru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 05:42:56 PM
Oh god the yellow is awful. I should have chosen orange. But I can't edit it so you'll have to forgive me for the sin of straining your eyes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Abu on June 04, 2020, 05:45:48 PM
OK, I'm here, so I'll catch up for real now.

I might get distracted though. Kengan Ashura is a great manga.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 04, 2020, 05:49:00 PM
i like tsugumi's slot. his presence has already been very healthy for the gamestate and he's done an amazing job at drawing out productivity. don't see someone like him subbing in after all this time to powerwolf, it seems like he has a real desire to solve this

the role-confirming idea was still kinda bad in retrospect, it doesn't give town much useful info and helps progress the scum poe. so slight lapse in judgement there. would've loved being able to confirm zwerd's pick being itg though

since i'm already talking about him, idt i ever made my stance on him real clear. my main gripe w/ him was that he tried to implicate me with a supposed meta read, without any real meta. felt like he was trying too hard to recontextualize and justify his push on me, and that just doesn't sit well. ik it isn't the kind of reasoning that's easy to get behind. didn't say much about his massclaim idea because i could still see him doing it as town. nai

@ with that definition of passive gameplay then sure, guess i'm guilty. i liked bard's vote on celery and decided that it'd be better to add pressure on him over yaer. a single vote doesn't do strawberries, and i was already pressing him verbally

asking raik about serela's meta doesn't mean that i was townreading him though, especially when i was openly sus of the two ppl townreading him with weird reasoning. his slot's been a hard null for me, and i just haven't been reading into him that deeply

looking at him, i can agree that his content doesn't have much meat to it. he's rational as usual when it comes to gameplay discussions, and there seems to be a reliance on his meta philosophy, like he's running his basic raikaria script. based on what he said about me and celery, there's easily cases he could've built, but they kind of just went nowhere. not exactly saying that he should've pushed for lynches or anything, but there isn't even a little bit of pressure. so ig i'd like to know what he rly thinks of our slots and why he hasn't done much w/ them. taking him out wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but i think i like a sorelle lynch better atm. his gameplay is practically a 1:1 copy of what i've seen him do as scum: make excuses for not having much content, mix in some game theory, and go for easy lynching

as for some of the inactives:
all i can say about aboo is that from what little i've played w/ him, he was lazy af in his town slot. can relate. he was playing with the intention of baiting a nk granted, but i still think it's more of an abu thing. working on him prob won't do much tonight, but if he can pop in w/ an update, then that'd be great

meowstic looks pretty bad to me. liked him when he was poking ppl near the start, but now he mostly just gives lackluster responses when adressed and sinks away. beating him till he regurgitates reads is already proven not to help much this late tho so if i live, i want to interact with him more tomorrow

yaer's acting like more of a free agent now, so i feel a bit better about him. unsure if it's more of a response to pressure, but i think there's enough doubt there for me to ease up on him. don't care for his use of the newbie card though, he's already proven to be pretty competent. appreciate his effort regardless
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 04, 2020, 05:49:51 PM
oh, nice. two more ppl here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 06:13:31 PM
i like tsugumi's slot. his presence has already been very healthy for the gamestate and he's done an amazing job at drawing out productivity. don't see someone like him subbing in after all this time to powerwolf, it seems like he has a real desire to solve this

the role-confirming idea was still kinda bad in retrospect, it doesn't give town much useful info and helps progress the scum poe. so slight lapse in judgement there. would've loved being able to confirm zwerd's pick being itg though

since i'm already talking about him, idt i ever made my stance on him real clear. my main gripe w/ him was that he tried to implicate me with a supposed meta read, without any real meta. felt like he was trying too hard to recontextualize and justify his push on me, and that just doesn't sit well. ik it isn't the kind of reasoning that's easy to get behind. didn't say much about his massclaim idea because i could still see him doing it as town. nai

@ with that definition of passive gameplay then sure, guess i'm guilty. i liked bard's vote on celery and decided that it'd be better to add pressure on him over yaer. a single vote doesn't do strawberries, and i was already pressing him verbally

asking raik about serela's meta doesn't mean that i was townreading him though, especially when i was openly sus of the two ppl townreading him with weird reasoning. his slot's been a hard null for me, and i just haven't been reading into him that deeply

looking at him, i can agree that his content doesn't have much meat to it. he's rational as usual when it comes to gameplay discussions, and there seems to be a reliance on his meta philosophy, like he's running his basic raikaria script. based on what he said about me and celery, there's easily cases he could've built, but they kind of just went nowhere. not exactly saying that he should've pushed for lynches or anything, but there isn't even a little bit of pressure. so ig i'd like to know what he rly thinks of our slots and why he hasn't done much w/ them. taking him out wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but i think i like a sorelle lynch better atm. his gameplay is practically a 1:1 copy of what i've seen him do as scum: make excuses for not having much content, mix in some game theory, and go for easy lynching

as for some of the inactives:
all i can say about aboo is that from what little i've played w/ him, he was lazy af in his town slot. can relate. he was playing with the intention of baiting a nk granted, but i still think it's more of an abu thing. working on him prob won't do much tonight, but if he can pop in w/ an update, then that'd be great

meowstic looks pretty bad to me. liked him when he was poking ppl near the start, but now he mostly just gives lackluster responses when adressed and sinks away. beating him till he regurgitates reads is already proven not to help much this late tho so if i live, i want to interact with him more tomorrow

yaer's acting like more of a free agent now, so i feel a bit better about him. unsure if it's more of a response to pressure, but i think there's enough doubt there for me to ease up on him. don't care for his use of the newbie card though, he's already proven to be pretty competent. appreciate his effort regardless

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quote
@ with that definition of passive gameplay then sure, guess i'm guilty. i liked bard's vote on celery and decided that it'd be better to add pressure on him over yaer. a single vote doesn't do strawberries, and i was already pressing him verbally

this doesnt encompass your gameplay in general, just one action

and im not looking for you to justify yourself; im just pointing out your playstyle and why i dont like it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
OK, I'm here, so I'll catch up for real now.

I might get distracted though. Kengan Ashura is a great manga.

you said this last game

you better not be a vig this game too
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 07:24:57 PM
hewwo I am awake now when is dl

looks like I am about to be mislynched for the crime of not caring about mafia

note to self don't let smartbomb and shadoweh make you sign up for things
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 07:52:48 PM
you know, I don't really consider myself low activity. I have a middling postcount for this game, I'm just not writing walls

I have no idea how the rest of you are able to write so many words about a game with like 200 posts in it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 07:58:06 PM
you know, I don't really consider myself low activity. I have a middling postcount for this game, I'm just not writing walls

I have no idea how the rest of you are able to write so many words about a game with like 200 posts in it

i dunno either tbf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
you know, I don't really consider myself low activity. I have a middling postcount for this game, I'm just not writing walls

I have no idea how the rest of you are able to write so many words about a game with like 200 posts in it

For what it's worth; I don't know, and I'd rather lynch Abu/Meow over you but there dosen't even seem to be enough people around to change the wagon.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:07:25 PM
well, we can try

##vote: meow
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:10:24 PM
normally about right now villager me would be yelling at villager me to do something villagery like making a reads wall or iso people or something

the problem with that is that I'm on mobile and this forum seems to be hostile towards mobile users. I want to look at everyone's posts and make some reads but the process is so laborious on mobile that I have kind of just given up. normally I would do real time interaction with people in a case like this but there are never people around when I'm around.

this is revenge for something, probably
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 04, 2020, 08:13:43 PM
eh. meow getting lynched wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but it feels like too much of a shot in the dark rn.  the exact same thing happened with him last game as well, and that turned out pretty poorly.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:23:04 PM
ok. do you want to lynch anyone who isn't me
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 04, 2020, 08:28:53 PM
yah, serela. guess i forgot to mention it in my wallpost, but i'm not feeling your wagon. dunno much about your meta, but i doubt you'd just double down and stick to a demotivated townie act in this situation
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:31:39 PM
well thanks

it's not an act tho :x I just don't like this forum software soz

next time I play a motk game I'll make sure I have ample desktop access time

I mean, I can see my laptop from here but I can't use it right now because my gf doesn't like it when I do work or mafia when she's at my house. never thought I would be That Guy but here I am, being that guy
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 08:51:43 PM
Oh crud I woke up at like 2pm and went to work without turning on my computer, when is deadline

Haven't read thread yet will try to find a minute , it should slow down soon
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:53:04 PM
as far as I know dl is in 8 minutes

glgl
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 08:56:16 PM
WAIT WHAT
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 04, 2020, 08:56:54 PM
Deadline is actually in 5 hours. Having said that. What.
I'm going to be at work and probably not around for that.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:58:34 PM
how is dl in 5 hours... I thought it was now

+ in the interest of self preservation
##vote: zwerdjib
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 08:59:53 PM
OOOO ok I'm silly

the timer counts down

it doesn't have a fancy box or anything so I thought it was just written text

I'll be able to do the things I want to do later then, fingers crossed

##unvote
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 09:00:51 PM
Raikaria>Serela has his weird waffles and trying to pin his idea's credit on me for some weird reason.

Saw this while looking for a votecount, I already replied to this before but again, I only said if there's a submarine they should maybe claim, you advanced the idea significantly farther

I just realized the deadline counter is automatic I thought it was just plaintext
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
how is dl in 5 hours... I thought it was now

+ in the interest of self preservation
##vote: zwerdjib

z

im too tired to play any more
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 04, 2020, 09:07:44 PM
OK, I'm here, so I'll catch up for real now.

I might get distracted though. Kengan Ashura is a great manga.

Please un-distract yourself before deadline.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 09:10:48 PM
z

im too tired to play any more

folding when I vote you for self pres isn't a good look br0
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 09:21:11 PM
folding when I vote you for self pres isn't a good look br0

no im just tired and i want to sleep

i might just be hungry
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 04, 2020, 09:42:22 PM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Golf

Beru (3) - Serela, Zwerdjib, Raikaria
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
Raikaria (1) - Zoomy Tsigumi
Daiya (0) -
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (2) - meow56, beru

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: raikaria on June 04, 2020, 09:47:19 PM
Popping in to say I'm going to sleep; won't be around by deadline. Of the three primary wagons on 2 votes [discounting my own vote] Beru is the one I'd rather see lynched out of Zwejd and Serela; so I'm gonna be staying there.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 09:48:55 PM
rude
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 09:49:33 PM
why are we voting serela again?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 10:00:35 PM
Popping in to say I'm going to sleep; won't be around by deadline. Of the three primary wagons on 2 votes [discounting my own vote] Beru is the one I'd rather see lynched out of Zwejd and Serela; so I'm gonna be staying there.

are you still here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 10:27:50 PM
Out of the lynches for the day, Zwerd is... not really compelling at all versus active lurking Abu and Beru's chain of excuses. Meow's at least a newbie so if nothing comes up by d3 we use a nuke? That one would be kind of a diceroll. I'm looking forward to Abu's hopefully upcoming post tho'
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 10:34:30 PM
Out of the lynches for the day, Zwerd is... not really compelling at all versus active lurking Abu and Beru's chain of excuses. Meow's at least a newbie so if nothing comes up by d3 we use a nuke? That one would be kind of a diceroll. I'm looking forward to Abu's hopefully upcoming post tho'

no pockets allowed
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 04, 2020, 10:47:21 PM
Hi I'm here
##Unvote
##Vote:Abu

Nobody seems to really want to join me on Raik and this end of day vote spread feels disappointing and a few people won't be here for deadline? I'd be happy to consolidate here on Abu who is still a lurker and prod-dodger because it seems like the most viable option that I'd be happiest with. Or meow if we want to tip the scales that way instead.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2020, 10:53:45 PM
no pockets allowed
i don't know what this even means
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 04, 2020, 10:56:35 PM
i don't know what this even means

it means im literally immune to being pocketed

its one of my best strengths

Hi I'm here
##Unvote
##Vote:Abu

Nobody seems to really want to join me on Raik and this end of day vote spread feels disappointing and a few people won't be here for deadline? I'd be happy to consolidate here on Abu who is still a lurker and prod-dodger because it seems like the most viable option that I'd be happiest with. Or meow if we want to tip the scales that way instead.

eh, yeah

##unvote beru

##vote abu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: beru on June 04, 2020, 11:56:54 PM
as previously stated I am okay with any wagon that is not on me atp

##vote: abu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2020, 12:06:25 AM
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Hotel

Abu (4) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsigumi, Zwerdjib, beru
Beru (2) - Serela, Raikaria
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (1) - meow56

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2020, 12:13:27 AM
okay well

it's been a few hours since abu said he was gonna post and he hasn't

if that doesn't end up happening then i certainly won't mind consolidating onto him for the lynch
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 05, 2020, 12:24:34 AM
interesting. abu isn't a terrible lynch, i guess

##unvote

##vote: abu

should be l-2 now. if he gets here, a claim would be nice
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 05, 2020, 01:30:14 AM
So uh, it's 30 minutes to deadline now
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 05, 2020, 01:34:12 AM
yeahhh it sure is <_<
##Unvote
##Vote Abu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 05, 2020, 01:45:50 AM
Well, other obligations took longer than I expected. Sorry.

I'll be around until deadline, so I can hammer if necessary.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Daiya on June 05, 2020, 01:46:52 AM
thirteen minutes left, we'd appreciate it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 05, 2020, 01:47:15 AM
Well, other obligations took longer than I expected. Sorry.

I'll be around until deadline, so I can hammer if necessary.
Obviously it's too late to do anything else about it now but if you can give a reads list before day ends that would be appreciated too
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 05, 2020, 01:53:01 AM
Town

Zoomy Tsugumi
zwerdjib
Dormio
Raikaria
Serela
Daiya
Beru
Abu
NucleusWaffles
Bardiche
Yaersulf

Scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 05, 2020, 01:53:55 AM
Thanks
ok time to hammer please
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 05, 2020, 01:54:18 AM
##Vote: Abu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 05, 2020, 02:02:19 AM
Town

Zoomy Tsugumi
zwerdjib
Dormio
Raikaria
Serela
Daiya
Beru
Abu
NucleusWaffles
Bardiche
Yaersulf

Scum

is this satire
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 05, 2020, 02:04:18 AM
Ngl I'm particularly curious about the justifications for the Bard read but this is a convo for tomorrow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2020, 03:05:22 AM
tired blinking

Hammer shut up
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2020, 03:09:57 AM
Quote
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count India

Abu (7) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsigumi, Zwerdjib, beru, Daiya, Serela, meow56 (HAMMER)
zwerdjib (2) - Dormio, Abu
Beru (1) -  Raikaria
Serela (1) - Bardiche
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -

Not Voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

Abu was eliminated via a conventional bomb strike. He was deployed as an American Aircraft Carrier
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 05, 2020, 03:13:02 AM
It is now the Night Phase. The night phase will last until this time:

[ Expired ]

You may submit night actions to me via PM or via Discord.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 06, 2020, 03:32:37 AM
DEFCON 2
Lynch Phase 2


(https://i.imgur.com/cKcMf8f.png)

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) - Attempts to impeach President Donald Trump after a falsified election have been stymied by the revelation that over a third of congress is connected to Russia. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi stated, "America is being threatened by Russian agents to the highest degree."

MOSCOW (RT) - Russian citizens in extreme outrage over the mass removal of all instances of the phrase "cyka blyat" through all major websites and social media owned by American-founded companies.

PYONGYANG (Weekly World News) - Kim Jong-un has single-handedly conquered the Earth, claims Korea as the holy land where citizens are safest.

DEFCON 2 is now in effect.
Nuclear attacks are NOT authorized.

It is now the second round of voting to decide which player will be conventionally bombed.
Following this phase, Non-American factions will gain access to the Stealth Bomber.
You have a bit less than 5 days to decide on a lynch. With 11 players, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 06, 2020, 03:35:38 AM
Beru is requesting a replacement.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 03:41:34 AM
Ok so, if I'm reading the rules right, there wasn't supposed to be a NK night one? Or did doctor do a thing?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 03:55:15 AM
For the record the bit about the Stealth Bomber was added to NNR's post after I asked that, which I think answers my question.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 03:58:13 AM
##Vote:Nucleuswaffles

Hot Take: Nucleus became more coherent and reasonable later in D1 because he was being coached by his scumbuddies.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 04:21:26 AM
##Vote:Nucleuswaffles

Hot Take: Nucleus became more coherent and reasonable later in D1 because he was being coached by his scumbuddies.
considering nucleus was my scum buddy last game i don't think this is a very good take

I wouldn't -entirely- mind lynching waffles because I think he's pretty likely to be third party and probably needs to die sooner or later but it's probably better to do it with nukes b/c I don't SUPER think he's scum?

beru is actually replacing out and it seems that it was truly a lack of time and discontent with forum software more than anything else, I guess :T abu is lynched and meow is new so I don't want to just votedrop meow for being the last of the low content matters because it's just a coinflip that we have nukevigs for later if we still need them

...wait, damn, what else is there. Ok c'mere player list. Still not really interested in Dorm or Zwerd, Rai and Zoomy are the townier of the living players, that leaves... Daiya/Yaer/Bard that I need to get on rereading
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 04:23:27 AM
considering nucleus was my scum buddy last game i don't think this is a very good take
this doesn't go into enough detail in hindsight, but since you were in the last game you probably get what I meant
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 04:34:12 AM
Yeah I understand what you mean, and you're probably right.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 04:42:25 AM
Oh yeah Meow why are Bardiche and I your top scumreads?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 05:10:10 AM
Yaer may not be a shining beacon of content but they've been aware of not finding a lot to do and filling that instead by making sure to prod people and ask questions and push for results from people, and they pressured multiple people yesterday while also providing their reads on all players, so for their level of play it's as much as I could expect

Reading Daiya reminds me that this is, indeed, a mafia game, which honestly most people's posts this game leaves me feeling like it's possible to actually forget that fact. I'm biased in their favor just because they're playing way better than half the playerlist including myself. I really like their earlygame, and it continues strong, this slot is probably town. With the overall level of play seen this game it'd be very, very easy for mafia to just not try very hard, especially not as much as Daiya is.

Bardiche tho'. He started fine, but after he voted me, he just kind of... vanished for the next 2~3 days. He made One Post (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7776#msg7776) since then, where he said
1.Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them
2.NucleusWaffles sure isn't townie and also sure isn't scummy (even bard loves some delicious waffles i see)
3."daiya why did you townread me"
4.Said Zwerd's posts were kind of empty for how many there were

This isn't -that- bad but this is the entirety of his content for the whole second half of Day 1, and only #4 here is the only one that even requires having done more than lightly skim the thread (barely).

##Vote:Bard

I know you said you wanted to try out lurking this game, but, there's a difference between making 1 decent post a day and lurking to the point it doesn't even seem like you're paying more than the bare minimum of attention to the game.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 05:13:00 AM
clarification:bard made one post since then that wasn't a prod dodge

also, another thing about that; his only post(s) for about ~40 hours before the post I linked was his comment on me complaining about pressure and voting me, so about two sentences

like, after ed1 bard's almost nonexistent
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 05:18:01 AM
my case ended up kind of spread out all over the place so let me summarize:

*Bard looked okay at the very start of defcon3 phase (official d1 start)
*24 hours later:The only thing bard did was comment on not liking my post and votedropping me with no other comments
*24 hours later:Bard makes the post I linked, which I went over more indepth above
*24 hours later:Bard says he lightly skimmed the thread and doesn't see a reason to unvote me, no other comment
*D1 ends
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 06, 2020, 05:23:11 AM
strawberries i forgot to include analysis

point 2 is meh because it was basically a sniper-precision votedrop that ignored the rest of the game, like, in hindsight it just looks like "hey, I found something worth voting, gonna vote it and peace out"
point 3 is meh because he glossed over commenting on me, and gave like half an opinion about a couple other people
point 4 is actively bad because now it's end of d1 and he still has basically nothing to say about the entire game, doesn't comment at all on the ACTUAL consolidation wagons, glosses over me again, and he pretty much admits he didn't really read the thread despite deadline coming up, literally just voteparking on his ED1 vote with no comment given on the case since he made it and ignoring the rest of the game even though my wagon didn't really go anywhere

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 06:19:14 AM
Idk I'm kind of bothered today because I feel like mostly everyone is suspicious on some form or another
But ok, I'm with you Serela on feeling good about Daiya and Yaer.
Yesterday I wasn't really seeing Bard-scum but idk, I can be convinced today and I agree that his passivity is concerning. I think I'd rather prod him to give many more thoughts first though.

Really I'm just paranoid of almost everyone and would like to sort things out better today. I should've done more (read: any) legwork during the night to read up and see maybe if any connections can be drawn from the Abu flip but at the same time I don't have much hope in that line of thought since, well, nobody really cared about a barely-there player.

EoD1 sucked and I'm unhappy with how it went down in hindsight. I am bothered with how it felt kind of too easy to shift votes? But maybe that was also a product of running almost to deadline... ugh this is hard.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 06, 2020, 06:39:01 AM
I'm awake. Got work soon. So this is essentially a prod dodge until I'm back from work later.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2020, 06:48:57 AM
##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7756#msg7756), he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7759#msg7759).
When I reiterate yet again (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7875#msg7875), he refuses to provide any clarification. Again. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7880#msg7880)
He (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7846#msg7846) also just (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7855#msg7855) sheeps Zoomy (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7860#msg7860) religiously (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7921#msg7921). Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 07:27:01 AM
##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7756#msg7756), he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7759#msg7759).
When I reiterate yet again (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7875#msg7875), he refuses to provide any clarification. Again. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7880#msg7880)
He (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7846#msg7846) also just (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7855#msg7855) sheeps Zoomy (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7860#msg7860) religiously (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7921#msg7921). Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.
I'm very willing and keen to look into this today, but can you also do me a solid and run through some other scumreads you have? You've thrown some shade on Serela, are you still unhappy with them? Why? And is there anyone else?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 07:49:03 AM
I think I'm going to continue to ##Vote:Raikaria
I'm really not understanding the townreads people have on them. Even after their last big post before the end of the day it was still quite non-committal, Daiya really hit the nail on the head here
looking at him, i can agree that his content doesn't have much meat to it. he's rational as usual when it comes to gameplay discussions, and there seems to be a reliance on his meta philosophy, like he's running his basic raikaria script. based on what he said about me and celery, there's easily cases he could've built, but they kind of just went nowhere. not exactly saying that he should've pushed for lynches or anything, but there isn't even a little bit of pressure. so ig i'd like to know what he rly thinks of our slots and why he hasn't done much w/ them. taking him out wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but i think i like a sorelle lynch better atm. his gameplay is practically a 1:1 copy of what i've seen him do as scum: make excuses for not having much content, mix in some game theory, and go for easy lynching
to how I've been feeling with Raik, the play doesn't feel organic and I'm still not sensing the drive to have a voice and figure things out. Their last big post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7884#msg7884) actually has a lot of regurgitated opinions and half assed reads. Calling 9 out of 12 players sus enough to consider lynching feels like a cop out for someone who never went anywhere with their scumreads earlier in the day too. Not to mention that of those 9, the only 3 they really preferred were lurkers and non-contributors. It's really easy pickings.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 07:53:25 AM
To add to my point actually, despite having concerns with 6 of the more active slots, Raik never really extends much effort to discern things from them. It looks to me more like we're witnessing someone playing a passive role and pointing out things to look back later and be like "hey you can see here i said that earlier" as opposed to someone who is pointing out things to drive people to take a look and be like "oh wow you're right they really are suspicious"
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
People that don't really exist:
Daiya - For what it's worth, I think the few actual content posts they've made are actually okay, so I'm not really looking too hard here unless something egregious happens to jump out at me.
beru - Consists of pretty much entirely non-content posts. Is also replacing out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bardiche - Similar to Daiya, the few posts he has don't really bother me so it's a slot that is there.
Yaersulf - Doesn't exist outside of just poking and prodding at a few people and then disappearing. If we were consolidating on a lurker lynch, this is the one that I'd go for.
Meow56 - Doesn't exist.

People that do exist:
Dormio - This is me.
zwerdjib - This is scum.
NuclearWaffles - This is probably the SK.
Serela - Flailing around in typical Serela fashion, his D1 posts looked pretty bad. D2 looks like he's actually putting effort into the game but this is a slot that I'm keeping my eye on.
raikaria - I was going to say that this one seems sane, but Zoomy Tsugumi brings up a good point about this slot in their latest post. This is another slot to keep an eye on, I suppose.
Zoomy Tsugumi - This one seems sane.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 10:31:49 AM
Why is Yaer the lurker lynch you'd go for over the others? From the points you raised he seems to be townier than other lurkers like Meow who do little and still end up disappearing constantly.

The rest of the reads are.... underwhelming honestly but it's something that I can work with and I don't think its meh in a way that's scummy, so oh well.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2020, 10:41:43 AM
Mostly because simply poking and prodding without following up to make it look as though you have some suspicions and are participating is scummier than not existing at all.
Like I feel that it's a really disingenuous way to make it look as though you're trying to scumhunt when, in reality, you aren't actually doing anything of significance at all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 10:47:48 AM
Ok, that's a fair take, but I'm still not sure it fully applies to Yaer. I think Yaer's been using his vote as a weapon and tool for pressure which is more than you can say for some. I'm willing to bet that it's more a case of newbie town not having developed all the skills necessary to really follow through on the pressure and dig deeper and deeper more than scum pretending to care.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 12:48:00 PM
I was just trying to contribute the only way I know how, especially when there's no inforamtion to work with. Poke people until information that other people can use comes out.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 06, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
Well, there's more information now. Are you going to continue contributing nothing other than pokes and prods?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 06, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
For right now? Yes, I'm about to fall asleep.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche

Gimme a reads list Bard, I wanna know what you think.

I'll try to make some good words of my own when I wake up.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 06, 2020, 04:10:10 PM
I'm not really able to post much in the way of usefulness because my general way of doing things is to look at interactions between people and there's not been much interaction between people this game. At least; not much of any use.

Even flips; which I also use, aren't much use. We lynched Abu. He flipped Town. He had basically no interaction with any other player, and pretty much everyone expressed at least some willingness to lynch him for him being useless.

I mean, I can say it looks bad for anyone who ended up lynching Abu and pushing his wagon hard, but considering most people had him on their lists due to his inactivity, including myself [The only reason I didn't vote Abu was because I thought we were consolidating on Beru. The Abu lynch occurred while I was sleeping], it's really not a good idea to try and push someone just because they lynched a dead slot.

This basically leaves me up the creek; because there's not much interaction or flip/voting based information I can use which is how I usually makes my cases. It's really frustrateing. I can't make cases because there isn't much fuel to fuel a case. I don't like making cases out of desperation and thin air. [Although Ironically I'm often accused of borderline conspiracy theory cases, more often than not I've actually been right or very near right recently so...]

For what it's worth, I don't get why people are townreading me either. I've not really done much of any use.

I do find Serela's vote on Bard interesting, because I previously had the feeling that while he'd posted little; it was generally town-based, which is why I expressed I didn't want to consolidate on him. Perhaps my Bard townread was because a lot of his points I generally agreed on. I mean, I'm kinda biased like that.

Also this made me have to look up the meaning of the word 'pulchritudinous'.

I don't quite agree with Serela's statement that Bard says 'Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them'. It sounds to me more like Bard is saying 'Serela's recent behaviour runs counter to his usual behaviour as town so reinforces my read on him' but maybe that's just interpretation.

On the Year topic; yeah he isn't a godsend to town but he's a darn sight better than Meow is in terms of low-activity and contribution. That said; maybe you can argue that actually posting sometimes but having no content is worse than not posting at all. But in that regard I'd argue Zwejb is worse, and of course, he was scum last time he did this. But I don't like relying solely on meta stuff either.

God this mafia game sucks.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 06, 2020, 04:11:03 PM
This game feels like I'm attempting to paddle a rowboat up a waterfall. Game is hard.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 06, 2020, 05:54:51 PM
##Vote: zwerdjib

The reasoning I stated throughout D1 still applies, on top of that his behaviour during the end of day 1 is also scummy. Like he never actually addressed any of my points against him, yet acts as though he has and is frustrated as a result of it.
Like when I even summed it nicely for him here (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7756#msg7756), he responds by saying that I'm misconstruing what he had been doing and yet doesn't provide any clarification whatsoever (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7759#msg7759).
When I reiterate yet again (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7875#msg7875), he refuses to provide any clarification. Again. (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7880#msg7880)
He (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7846#msg7846) also just (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7855#msg7855) sheeps Zoomy (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7860#msg7860) religiously (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7921#msg7921). Like, for someone who thinks that Daiya is scummy, he does an awfully small amount of pushing for this case and is instead content to watch town push a lurker lynch as opposed to somebody he thinks is scum.

yeah

sure

im mafia

okay

you can lynch me now

eyeroll
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 06, 2020, 06:15:55 PM
This game feels like I'm attempting to paddle a rowboat up a waterfall. Game is hard.

mood
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
Yeah, I mean, you can vote me, sure, but I have a deadline coming up Monday that I'm scrunching hard for, okay? There's still 120 pages I need to check and verify before I'm done, so you're gonna have to take some slow-mode.

##Vote: Serela
Don't really feel I am wrong on this count. Hastily adding on and on to his case on me just looks like scummy scrambling to make sure the case is legit. In essence, though, it feels like Serela says I'm not particularly scummy, but he votes me because I had reduced activity for the past few days.

That's a pretty strawberriesty "Lynch lurkers" case, and I'd expect more of Serela. At this stage, it's clear he's completely lost the plot, and is just looking for "the easy vote": in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7817#msg7817) he narrows to Abu, Meow, and Beru, as a group of three with low activity. Clearly, after sensing Nucleus's lynch wasn't really picking up any steam despite seeming so easy (he had that breakdown, people seemed apt on voting him, it was a wagon Serela wanted to be on), he just defaulted to a lazy "Let's lynch lurkers" stance.

Basically, Serela can park his vote on me easily; in the worst case for him, I come up with a reasonable explanation for my lack of activity, and then he'll have bought time to look somewhere else/gauge the public sentiment. Please consider: Serela's avoided saying much about anyone notMe at this point, whereas other people are weighing in with scum reads. Serela can thus easily ride those sentiments once his reason for voting me falls away.


TL;DR:

Serela's only going after easy targets, whereas Town!Serela's normally willing to dare a bit more. The gutsiest thing he's done so far is vote me; everything else has been safe stances and attitudes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 06, 2020, 06:49:09 PM
It's also funny he states here he has little motivation to care about anything going on (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7755#msg7755), which is well-reflected by general lethargy on Serela's side to hunt scum. There's such a thing as "active lurking", and Serela wrote the textbook entry for it in this thread, right here.


Other people who remain on my radar are NucleusWaffles (I still cannot shake the feeling that you are at best ITP, at worst scum, with a refuge in audacity and plenty of weird happenings), and zwerdjib, where you need only check his posts (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=204) and you'll see it's a huge volume of them with a lot of chaff. He's masterfully staying in the mind as "someone who is active", but his posts aren't actually achieving a lot in terms of probing people, applying pressure, or directing the game.

Basically, I feel like he's making sure to be on the radars, while at the same time avoiding doing anything that would make him stand out a little more. A controlled bystander act, if you will.


And now I'm going back to work.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 06, 2020, 11:26:59 PM
It's also funny he states here he has little motivation to care about anything going on (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7755#msg7755), which is well-reflected by general lethargy on Serela's side to hunt scum. There's such a thing as "active lurking", and Serela wrote the textbook entry for it in this thread, right here.


Other people who remain on my radar are NucleusWaffles (I still cannot shake the feeling that you are at best ITP, at worst scum, with a refuge in audacity and plenty of weird happenings), and zwerdjib, where you need only check his posts (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=204) and you'll see it's a huge volume of them with a lot of chaff. He's masterfully staying in the mind as "someone who is active", but his posts aren't actually achieving a lot in terms of probing people, applying pressure, or directing the game.

Basically, I feel like he's making sure to be on the radars, while at the same time avoiding doing anything that would make him stand out a little more. A controlled bystander act, if you will.


And now I'm going back to work.

sure

valid criticism

i dont have anything to say

or maybe i do have a lot to say and im just very not motivated to play the game knowing that dormio will hang onto every excuse he can muster until he finally gets me lynched for some reason
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: meow56 on June 06, 2020, 11:48:44 PM
zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?

Oh yeah Meow why are Bardiche and I your top scumreads?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 06, 2020, 11:59:55 PM
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Mostly to avoid a no-lynch as Abu seemed to have the biggest consensus among the players around at the time for "will be happy to lynch"
A push on others didn't feel super viable to have pan out to an actual lynch
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 01:15:06 AM
Some thoughts:

- Bardiche: His lack of words was a bit suspicious but he said some good ones early on and he seems to have a good excuse for not posting so much, I'm happy to focus on other people for now.

- Meow: Said almost nothing D1, and when he did it was almost entirely because he was poked to do so. Then dropped a weird reads list and hammered. I might be placing too much weight on this but I seem to remember that Serela hammered D1 as scum for towncred (at least I assume that's why Serela did that.) Zwerd has done some suspicious stuff but is almost at the top of Meow's reads list, crazy out there guess but they could be scum together?

- Raikaria: Seems to be trying to work stuff out but is having trouble finding something to work with and has contributed more than most from what I can see. I don't think having trouble pointing fingers at anyone in particular is scummy seeing as that seems to be the theme of the game.

- Serela: I like a lot of what Serela has to say but I wouldn't say I hard read Serela as town or anything. I don't see a lot different between this Serela and Scum!Serela from last game, and the reason Scum!Serela got caught wasn't because he was acting scum-like.

- Dormio: Hot take, what if the reason that we're having trouble is because Scum are good at what they do. I've heard tales of the legendary Scum!Dormio.

I think we should take a close look at Meow (and whoever subs into Beru's slot actually), and keep an eye on Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 01:17:44 AM
Oh, another thought:

If a lot of people think Nucleus is likely third party, is it not a good idea to lynch him so that he doesn't get his nightkill tonight? Or is not so much a priority because he might just hit scum?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 01:19:18 AM
##Unvote
##Vote: Meow56

Oops almost forgot this part
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 07, 2020, 01:20:57 AM
- Raikaria: Seems to be trying to work stuff out but is having trouble finding something to work with and has contributed more than most from what I can see. I don't think having trouble pointing fingers at anyone in particular is scummy seeing as that seems to be the theme of the game.
Idk, I don't see it like this. I think at this point not having scumreads that you follow up on is a cop out. There's a fair amount of stuff to go off of now and considering the suspicion pool is so wide not latching on to any read is weird.
What has Raik contributed?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 07, 2020, 01:27:22 AM
sure

valid criticism

i dont have anything to say

or maybe i do have a lot to say and im just very not motivated to play the game knowing that dormio will hang onto every excuse he can muster until he finally gets me lynched for some reason
I don't like this post
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 01:31:43 AM
While it's true that most of Raikaria's concrete contribution has been agruing against the massclaim, rereading I noticed stuff like:


Also; combining with my curiosity as to why Daiya is reffering to me about Serela... his beef with yaer could basically be applied to me. Yet not only am I not given as a scumread, but if Daiya is asking me specifically for meta info instead of Dormio or some other long-term player, that suggests Daiya trusts me?


Arguing for yourself as a potential scumread seems kind of townie to me, especially when people are having trouble finding scumreads. And he also dropped a reasonable reads list without any prompting.

Not that I think we should discount anyone, definitely keep an eye out, but I think there's more suspicious people to deal with first.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 01:33:19 AM
Oh yeah I didn't mention him because not much has changed regarding the Zwerdjib situation, but he's definitely still suspicous and worth considering.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 07, 2020, 01:40:56 AM
Arguing for yourself as a potential scumread seems kind of townie to me, especially when people are having trouble finding scumreads.
Not sure I fully agree with this, it's a null tell I think.

Quote
And he also dropped a reasonable reads list without any prompting.
You mean the one at the end of the day before the lynch? How was that reasonable? It was 3 "i want to lynch" reads on all 3 lurkers and 6 "i'd be ok lynching them" on all but 2 people and Raik. That's a FoS on 2/3rds of the playerlist, and no followups lol. It's easy pickings and regurtitated info, half the reasons listed were things brought up by others.
Not to mention calling it unprompted seems like a misconstruing of the situation, deadline was nearing and people needed to consolidate so some people were throwing out lynch options, plus I'd been on Raik's ass for a hot minute by then about not actually having reads.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2020, 01:55:45 AM
Zwerd being overly defeatist isn't a great look but idk that it's a scum look? However he's also posted a grand total of nothing today other than whining over one vote on him so uh that part -is- kinda scummy actually

again, it's... one vote. Have you seen how little I cared about bard's vote on me? I mean, ok, I'm voting him, but him voting me isn't part of my reasoning (apart from it looking like a votepark while he largely ignored the rest of the game)

Bard seems to have mainly handwaved and misrepped my case, says I don't think he actually looks scummy (????) and that I lazily made a generic lurker lynch case (no?). I could copypaste my case here but I don't think there's actually a need for this?? If people want me to go over something in deeper detail I can try but given he barely posted anything I don't think I can do much more than I already have stated (for a quick recap:see the mini-paragraph above this one)

Also if you want to argue town-serela would normally 'do more' you can go look at my previous town game Neo Mafia where i literally only went after low-content people until the game was rolesolved on day 4. The fact of the matter is that lately the games have plenty of low hanging fruit and, quite honestly, a good hunk of the scumteam is generally in those low hanging fruits. Exceptions are when said fruits are just newbies being new, but, Bardiche is not a newbie, and I've been clearly passing over meow for that exact reason :U







Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 02:01:34 AM
Ah yeah Zoomy I missed you poking Raik for that reads list, mostly because I wasn't really scrutinising you because you seem so town lol.

I still think Meow looks more suspicious though.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2020, 02:35:23 AM
zwerdjib: "I'm going to use one person voting me as an excuse to not contribute anything whatsoever". :cirnotan:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 07, 2020, 03:19:16 AM
zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.

it was literally all town no scum

thats kind of... weirdchamp
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2020, 03:46:07 AM
zwerd i think you misread the list

top is towniest bottom is scummiest
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 07, 2020, 03:48:51 AM
zwerdjib: "I'm going to use one person voting me as an excuse to not contribute anything whatsoever". :cirnotan:

 :meiling:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 07, 2020, 03:53:01 AM
Zwerd being overly defeatist isn't a great look but idk that it's a scum look? However he's also posted a grand total of nothing today other than whining over one vote on him so uh that part -is- kinda scummy actually

again, it's... one vote. Have you seen how little I cared about bard's vote on me? I mean, ok, I'm voting him, but him voting me isn't part of my reasoning (apart from it looking like a votepark while he largely ignored the rest of the game)

Bard seems to have mainly handwaved and misrepped my case, says I don't think he actually looks scummy (????) and that I lazily made a generic lurker lynch case (no?). I could copypaste my case here but I don't think there's actually a need for this?? If people want me to go over something in deeper detail I can try but given he barely posted anything I don't think I can do much more than I already have stated (for a quick recap:see the mini-paragraph above this one)

Also if you want to argue town-serela would normally 'do more' you can go look at my previous town game Neo Mafia where i literally only went after low-content people until the game was rolesolved on day 4. The fact of the matter is that lately the games have plenty of low hanging fruit and, quite honestly, a good hunk of the scumteam is generally in those low hanging fruits. Exceptions are when said fruits are just newbies being new, but, Bardiche is not a newbie, and I've been clearly passing over meow for that exact reason :U

probably town serela by the way

hes enunciating his thought process throughout the text. its very organic
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2020, 04:08:59 AM
thanks zwerd! But more importantly who do you think is scummy
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 07, 2020, 06:32:32 AM
hes enunciating his thought process throughout the text. its very organic

Organic Waffles.

Just a quick 'popping in before Sunday work' post.

You mean the one at the end of the day before the lynch? How was that reasonable? It was 3 "i want to lynch" reads on all 3 lurkers and 6 "i'd be ok lynching them" on all but 2 people and Raik. That's a FoS on 2/3rds of the playerlist, and no followups lol. It's easy pickings and regurtitated info, half the reasons listed were things brought up by others.
Not to mention calling it unprompted seems like a misconstruing of the situation, deadline was nearing and people needed to consolidate so some people were throwing out lynch options, plus I'd been on Raik's ass for a hot minute by then about not actually having reads.

It wasn't a strict read list.

It was a consolidation list, so people knew who I'd be willing to lynch.

And while some of the info was 'regurgitated' it's not exactly a crime to share opinions with someone else.

At this point it's starting to feel a bit like you're tunnelling me.

Oh, another thought:

If a lot of people think Nucleus is likely third party, is it not a good idea to lynch him so that he doesn't get his nightkill tonight? Or is not so much a priority because he might just hit scum?

I would say this. Plus; he's a fairly safe target for power roles; nukes; and so on later.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
since this is a game where you can expect 4+ town vigs (NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE) for once you don't worry too much about unreadable slots, you just nuke them later B)

so we can concentrate entirely on those most likely to flip scum for our lynch
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 07, 2020, 06:50:27 AM
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Juliet

Bardiche (1) - Serela, Yaersulf
zwerdjib (1) - Dormio
Serela (1) - Bardiche
Raikaria (1) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (1) - Yaersulf
NucleusWaffles (0) - Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Yaersulf (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (6) - Daiya, Beru, NucleusWaffles, meow56, Raikaria, zwerdjib

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 07, 2020, 07:11:24 AM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 2

Quote from: Wikileaks
Tuesday, November 17, 2020 03:09
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 05 MOSCOW 009533
SIPDIS
SIPDIS
EO 12958 DECL: 08/30/2023
TAGS PGOV, ECON, PINR, RS">RS
SUBJECT: LAST WEEK'S GAME
Classified By: Deputy Chief of Mission [REDACTED] A. [REDACTED]. Reason 1.4 ( b, d)

SUMMARY:



Quote
nyyts cgxts fbyjv hbkax wptwl phkhv ihdqz yffix xmroc bsqxh avzlf dmupx sqvnp mcwro ldzwj istfa tbntr akbto mkxad wklcp satwx rohrt udknd
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 07, 2020, 07:30:39 AM
It's not ROT-13 I can say that much. :V
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 07, 2020, 07:32:50 AM
It wasn't a strict read list.

It was a consolidation list, so people knew who I'd be willing to lynch.

And while some of the info was 'regurgitated' it's not exactly a crime to share opinions with someone else.

At this point it's starting to feel a bit like you're tunnelling me.
I don't really feel like any of this dissuades my scumread on you. This just means you still don't even have a basic reads list by this point in day 2 lol. And no, it most certainly isn't a crime to share opinions, but it's a copout when you've not done so much by yourself.

And if it seems like I'm tunneling, I mean I'm not gonna deny that I'm focusing my attenion on you but that's because I want you lynched because I think you're scum and I'm trying to get others to think that way too. It's the name of the game lol.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 07, 2020, 07:39:17 AM
I mean zwerdjib still isn't trying push any lynches at all. Despite thinking that Daiya is scum. And also despite saying that I'm scummy. He's not even refuting the point that I brought up about him deciding to do literally nothing because one person is voting for him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 07, 2020, 07:48:23 AM
I mean zwerdjib still isn't trying push any lynches at all. Despite thinking that Daiya is scum. And also despite saying that I'm scummy. He's not even refuting the point that I brought up about him deciding to do literally nothing because one person is voting for him.
I agree, it's really concerning, feels like night and day to yesterday's play.

How do we have 6 non-voters btw?? Have half the players just not shown up yet today?
Where's Waffles and Daiya in particular? Both have yet to make a post this day phase
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 07, 2020, 11:05:31 AM
I am here but the flurry of activity makes it hoenstly hard to make a ED1 analysis, also the flow of discussion on me was really good and I wanted to pass control of the narrative to the wisdom of the masses.

I agree on several points but this time I want to be more prudent before casing anyone. I am still interested in a Dormio lynch, and I now possibly think he can be connected to Bardiche noting how Bardiche's notable defense of Dormio was mostly *~the~* big thing D1, then Dormio went and tunneled on zwerdijib and the Beru mess happened.

I think Zoomy won major town points in my favour by saying exactly what I would have said about Yaersulf (abeit I was scum last game), Yaer likes using his vote as a baton. So currently, I townclear Yaersulf, Zoomy.

Serela is very coherent, I think scum!Serela is not meta like this, Serela is clear.

I would pin the last scum somewhere between Beru/Raikaria, I don't like the logic of the cases actually presented on Raikaria, but what makes me sus him is actually the wikileaks quote which suggest a lot of effort put on the scumside, which I associate with older players invested in the game rather than new players.

I would assign a 2:1 ratio for old players/new players in the scumteam. I am not the ITP, I am actually looking for NK right now because them living through DEFCON2 is a big problem.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 07, 2020, 03:14:55 PM
thanks zwerd! But more importantly who do you think is scummy

no idea

probably nucleus but hes entertaining
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 07, 2020, 04:55:24 PM
I'm back but busy with IRL.

Good news: I have 2 days off in a row so I can actually re-read stuff, think about stuff and hopefully figure something out then.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 07, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
no idea

probably nucleus but hes entertaining
it's been d2 for days now
sobs

would vote zwerd if I had a second vote

Quote from: waffles
I would assign a 2:1 ratio for old players/new players in the scumteam. I am not the ITP, I am actually looking for NK right now because them living through DEFCON2 is a big problem.
Scumteam is generally made through RNG (although a host might manually intervene if it chose, like, 3 newbies) so I wouldn't try to think of stuff like potential 'well balanced scum team layout options' e.g. 2:1 ratio of old/new players. Also, the encrypted leak isn't really enough to scumhunt off; raikaria isn't the only person liable to think of just straight-up encrypting scumchat.

Especially not if you actually don't like the cases against raikaria and are using the encrypted leak as your sole reason to suspect them?? Anyone else could have done this.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 07, 2020, 06:59:19 PM

Selery this isn’t a “case.”

1.Serela hasn't given a reason to stop voting them
2.NucleusWaffles sure isn't townie and also sure isn't scummy (even bard loves some delicious waffles i see)
3."daiya why did you townread me"
4.Said Zwerd's posts were kind of empty for how many there were

This isn't -that- bad but this is the entirety of his content for the whole second half of Day 1, and only #4 here is the only one that even requires having done more than lightly skim the thread (barely).



#1 is simply true. I haven’t stopped scumreading you and sincerely believe lynching you is the best course of action for Town.


#2 is a misrep. I listed Nucleus as a scumread. The part giving you apparent trouble is “his actions are impossible to rhyme as Town but not outright scummy”, while neglecting the part where I said he was doing that last game, too (where he was scum). So lemme say it in simpler terms:


Nucleas is behaving in a way that doesn’t make any sense for a Townie to do, even if his behaviour is not outright Scum-minded behaviour (telling people to lynch you is generally not what scum would do). At best this makes him 3P, at worst he is trying to refuge in audacity by behaving as crazy as possible so no one pays him any heed, nor wants to use the lynch on him.


Remember that we have mod confirmation of a third party being in play. We also want to eliminate them.


#3 & #4 are mostly accurate reports (I actually said I thought Daiya townreading me seemed scummy), and like I mentioned, you outright state it’s not that bad...


And go on to complain it’s my “only” post (lurker accusation). I disagree that it doesn’t take more than skimming to read Nucleus’s posts because they’d be the first thing to overlook on a skim, with the nonsense about wolves and sheep.


So if you’re going to complain about “handwaving” a case, at least put some effort and build one that isn’t just misrepresenting someone’s position, saying it isn’t all that bad, and then focusing mostly on “volume of posts”.


Why is it scummy of me to play more passively? Last game I took the lead, and I was told it was “tiresome” having to read “Bardiche thinking he’s all clever”; so why should I bother now to lead the discussion?


I’d rather not deal with that bullstrawberries again. Damned if I post a lot and damned if I don’t.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 07, 2020, 08:38:40 PM
I am still looking for a replacement for beru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 07, 2020, 08:41:38 PM
apologies, got caught up in eimm. phase ends in 4(?) hours, so i'll be around to catch up tonight
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: meow56 on June 08, 2020, 03:21:34 AM
Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 08, 2020, 03:37:56 AM
I agree, it's really concerning, feels like night and day to yesterday's play.

How do we have 6 non-voters btw?? Have half the players just not shown up yet today?
Where's Waffles and Daiya in particular? Both have yet to make a post this day phase

tends to happen honestly

very fast burn
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 04:12:00 AM
What I think is a problem with this game is that it feels like people are playing with their cards very close to their chest and people aren't interacting as much as we should
A lot of people are seemingly only with one active suspect at a time which is why I've been prodding for overall reads too.
And I want to say "well ok clearly that means those people are scum if they're not that open" but a lot of people are doing it this game and at least some of those people I am townreading.
Not to mention that on any given day half the people aren't even showing up for more than a post.

I might as well lay my reads out again to help myself even get a better idea of where things are at.
At this stage I feel good with Serela, Yaer, Daiya and Nucleus as town reads.
Beru's slot still kinda sucks but I'm not prioritizing this read right now. Really hope we can get a replacement there soon.
I feel confident with Raik as a scumread.
I could definitely easily see Zwerd being scum, Meow maybe too.
Dormio is probably town, but if Zwerd is town I can see Dormio being scum.
Bard's intentionally lower activity play is really concerning especially because I'm still leaning town on them. @Bard can I humbly request you to get more involved?

I'm also not gonna lie but I have no real frame of reference for what I should be looking for re:the third party, so I'm not confident on anyone. If I had to hazard a guess, I feel like calling Nucleus the ITP feels like a cop out and that the real ITP is probably in someone a bit more subdued and subtle like Dormio or Bard.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 04:13:08 AM
In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 08, 2020, 04:50:29 AM
In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.

not sure
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 04:59:12 AM
why not
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 08, 2020, 05:06:23 AM
Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.

The things that struck me as odd about your reads list were Bard and I being your top scumreads, over say Abu and Beru. I can understand me being a scumread, but not a top scumread if that makes sense. Also Zwerdjib being so high.

As for your reasoning, there's no way you could know this so it's not like I'm saying your reasoning is flawed but, I'm never confident. It's a problem.

And Dormio, I'm not saying he's scum and we should lynch him or anything. Just throwing out a wild crackpot theory. Though I do think we should keep an eye on him. But then again we should probably keep an eye on everyone. As the wisemen say, trust nobody not even yourself.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 08, 2020, 09:54:55 AM
Couple of things:

1: Today I'm doing my IRL stuff due to weather being better than tomorrow.

2: What are we doing regarding this maintenance and potential read-only status?

If I get the time I'll do my promised re-read and stuff today, otherwise I'll 100% do it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 08, 2020, 10:38:19 AM
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Kilo

Bardiche (1) - Serela, Yaersulf
zwerdjib (1) - Dormio
Serela (1) - Bardiche
Raikaria (1) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (1) - Yaersulf
NucleusWaffles (0) - Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Yaersulf (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (6) - Daiya, Beru, NucleusWaffles, meow56, Raikaria, zwerdjib

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2020, 11:22:47 AM
it's been 24 hours and the number of posts is less than the number of living players

i understand the game has 5 day deadlines because it goes to nuclear wasteland on d3 but until we start getting nuke flips man this is just painful.

where's that chart of 'length of deadline' to 'scumhunting ability' again

this is what i meant day one by 'there's not enough pressure' when bard was like 'wow serela you aren't doing it yourself /vote', no, without the pressure of an IMPENDING DEADLINE everyone just lays there and goes zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ok sorry i'm ranting because i just woke up, let me hit send and start a new post where i actually play mafia
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2020, 11:44:46 AM
2: What are we doing regarding this maintenance and potential read-only status?
I'm not the mod but, it seems like the read-only warning is just a potential risk and not really guaranteed so hey, if it doesn't happen, nothing to worry about

and if it does go under for 12 hours, there's still like 2 more days to deadline after that, so, :shrug:
------------------------------------------------------
OK MAFIA

OK Bard, you're defending most of your points, but the issue is... sure, if those half-opinions were declarations of scumminess, your position is somewhat better than before, but it doesn't really change the main point of my case; your d1 behavior looks like you found an easy vote and proceeded to mostly stop playing after.

After the first ~24 hours of d1 you still only had a tiny blip where you dropped a vote on me and the one post where, while you at least claim they were moreso accusations of scumminess than they look at first glance, I still stand by you barely have to skim the thread to make the points inside. I like how your argument with Waffles is that clearly since his posts are insane you must have read them, when I think the opposite is true, they were incoherent enough no one needs to have read them to make vague gestures suggesting it's not town motivated :U  He did get sane late in the day and make stuff that was legible but even then most people seemed to kind of ignore it in favor of the earlier posts.

It's scummy of you to play passively when it gets to the point you aren't even doing the bare minimum of seeming to care about how the game is going? How about that time where deadline is approaching, you're voteparking a wagon that doesn't seem to be going anywhere, you aren't even SLIGHTLY attempting to get them lynched (not seeing a reason to unvote me is barely even justification to keep voting me through deadline consolidation, much less to invigorate a dead wagon), and you don't make even a vague comment about the people who -are- looking like potential lynches? It's like you had zero interest in the lynch that would occur, e.g. you don't care because they're not your scumbuddies so it's all good etc, and considering how the day actually played out you certainly were distanced from it, considering you never mentioned in the -entirety of d1- the people who mainly did end up on the chopping block.

cut by dormio, i still stand by my earlier opinion that if I had a second vote it'd be on zwerdjib right now
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 12:18:01 PM
I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.
##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib

Ok, but tomorrow you do me a solid and roll with me on Raik, deal?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 12:22:18 PM
Although in joining you on this Dormio, I'd like to know, where would a Zwerd scumflip point you next? Are there any players you see as buddies?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2020, 12:30:57 PM
Paranoia!Dorm says Daiya. Like, despite saying that Daiya is scum repeatedly, zwerdjib has been extremely adverse to actually pushing for that lynch which makes me think that there's a reason he isn't committing there.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Ok fair, do you think Daiya is scummy individually?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 12:38:22 PM
I wish active lurking = scum in this game but then we'd have at least a 5 player scumteam lmao
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 08, 2020, 12:47:05 PM
Daiya is more of a void given the relative lack of content. This also applies to more than half of the players in the game. So that's fun.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 08, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
I'm liking this lynch Zwerd idea, he's definitely in my top 3 for most lynchable.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 08, 2020, 12:56:37 PM
Daiya is more of a void given the relative lack of content. This also applies to more than half of the players in the game. So that's fun.
See, I think Daiya's posts in D1 were pretty solidly town, but today has been concerning activity-wise, hopefully they deliver a post that makes me feel good again soon.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 08, 2020, 10:28:43 PM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 2

Quote
hsocb qypkz zxvbo yfzld fqkdy jizkx fxysm fdyuf qbnmn rqqdk uvneo uyrvg stpri elgji fqiws hsfoc yjjpw luqqr mzpot vqjbe vwzoy bvdyr sabey cgnfm tgwym nequr ebkai s
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 09, 2020, 05:27:17 AM
I am really comfortable with where I am parking this vote.

##Vote Yaersulf

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 09, 2020, 05:28:56 AM
Just to make sure I get this right; I rescind my townread because Yaersulf has suddenly dropped in activity and switched style again, so it has been votepark>baton>votepark+lurk with three style changes in a single game.

All style changes have been pointed out by other players, too, so that's really helpful associative analysis.

I strongly associate this with new!scum behaviour, so that's where I want the lynch to go today.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 05:57:30 AM
Dude the whole game has dropped in activity
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 06:23:54 AM
Well; it's Tuesday, I woke up early.

Starting to re-read stuff. Hopefully I can find something to give the game a kick up the rear end.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 07:11:08 AM
i expect a rapid massclaim at defcon 3

if we are going to break the setup were gonna do it based on peoples roles and what theyve chosen, not based off giving every single person a vig

First thing I want to point out; I don't recall Zwerdjib specifically rescinding this opinion. But at the same time, he didn't push for this again at DEFCON 3. Not really a scum thing, more a 'he never actually said he dropped this opinion' thing.

if i die n1 dont be surprised

This suggests zwerdjib hasn't read the rules and setup. Or is feigning ignorance. Combined with his Massclaim suggestion which I myself pointed out as giving scum more information than town, could be a minor scumtell?

haven't read through the original defcon yet, but i do find myself doubting the usefulness of the eavesdropper. it sounds cool and op on paper (in mons, 30% is practically guaranteed), but with its presence itg already known, I feel like it could be used by the scumteam to spread disinformation.

Interesting point here, although at the same time; the scumteam cannot control when the 30% procs either; so that strategy is a little difficult.

---

I don't like Waffle's push on Dormio... for being Dormio. Something like that has a 1/3 chance of hitting scum [4/12]. Actually looking for scum on the basis of... looking for scum should improve those odds.

---

zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?

Oh; Meow actually did call him out on it. I must have missed that. Did I mention I'm giving 'as-i-read' commentry?

SOU DA!

im an air base

[airplane noises]

your turn

and everyone elses turn

including raikaria

so far we have nucleus is a silo and i am an airbase

Why is Zwerdjib so specifically targeting me here? Is it because of my opposition to the massclaim? I was certainly the most vocal about it to be fair.

And Zwerdjib immediately votes Daiya for refusing the massclaim, but never takes that stance against me.

does
scum raikaria know to not publically act anti-town???? i don't know do they


raikaria has played a lot of mafia games.

And I think I've only ever rolled scum like; twice.

What differentiates Daiya from the other people who have made 1~3 posts of no significance?

This quote really sums up this game @_@

---

OK, I'm a bit behind, but some thoughts:
I don't agree with Waffles' push on Dormio, but I don't think it's necessarily scummy. I can't see why a scum would do that at the start of the game.
Mass-claiming this early is objectively bad, so don't do it. Why do you want a mass-claim, @zwerdjib?

I fully agree with Dormio's push on zwerdjib.
zwerdjib's responses and reads feel lacking and make no sense to me, and he still hasn't explained why he wanted a mass-claim.

##Vote: zwerdjib

@zwerdjib what makes you think Daiya's playstyle is particularly more passive than other players? The game has just started, you know.
Also, why is Serela town exactly?

---CONFIRMED TOWNIE POV---

Coolio.
Got anything to add other than an OMGUS?

The Dormio-Zwejdjib spat kinda gets to this point where Zwed is voting Dormio basically for voting him. I don't think the accusation of Tunnelling is inherently a bad thing to do [I've pointed out that Zoomy is tunnelling a bit] but there's a difference between encourageing someone to comment on other things and actually voting someone for tunnelling on you.

---

Jumping to End-Of-Day1:

Yearsulf has been on Abu for a while.

Zoomy is the first to switch to Abu; basically saying 'Raikaria isn't happen let's lynch a lurker'.

Zwerd switches to Abu with his resoning basically just being 'Zoomy is doing it'.

Beru Not Me Over Me's - fair enough. This makes Abu the largest wagon.

Daiya; Serela and Meow all seem to just consolidate due to near-deadline.

I mean technically Zoomy is the ringleader for the mislynch, but as I said earlier, it was a consolidation on a lurker that most people had already said they were fine with lynching so I can't read too much into it. Except that Zoomy is semi-tunnelling on a town lynch since Mid Day 1. Except I don't have any evidence that I'm Town to prove to you guys, and I think Zoomy is misguided Town rather than scum so...

---

sure

valid criticism

i dont have anything to say

or maybe i do have a lot to say and im just very not motivated to play the game knowing that dormio will hang onto every excuse he can muster until he finally gets me lynched for some reason

I don't like this sort of attitude; especially since it fits in with Zwerd's previous scum game. Active D1, falls off into the background and loses motivation after that.

I don't really feel like any of this dissuades my scumread on you. This just means you still don't even have a basic reads list by this point in day 2 lol. And no, it most certainly isn't a crime to share opinions, but it's a copout when you've not done so much by yourself.

And if it seems like I'm tunneling, I mean I'm not gonna deny that I'm focusing my attenion on you but that's because I want you lynched because I think you're scum and I'm trying to get others to think that way too. It's the name of the game lol.

Except I gave a basic reads list and even somewhat ordered my priority towards the end of Day 1? Or is a list of who I'd rather lynch not a 'basic reads list'. Opinions are reads.

In fact ok, if literally everyone could do a reads list like I just did that might clear things up and get more activity going.

I'm not sure what your obsession with reads lists is. I personally do not think we should give *full* read lists because it creates a town consensus as to who is town. This; in turn, paints massive targets on their backs saying 'SHOOT HERE'.

However; there's a difference between being opposed to giving a full reads list and:

not sure

Also:

I think that more people should be joining me in voting for zwerdjib.

Dormio; I'm gonna have to agree with Zwerd on one matter: You are tunnelling. You've said little~nothing about any other player. Can you please comment on some other matters as well as voting for Zwerd? I'm not asking you to change votes or anything, I'm just simply asking for you to do something other than tunnel Zwerd.

##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib

Ok, but tomorrow you do me a solid and roll with me on Raik, deal?

I REALLY do not like this stance; and it has basically removed my prior townread on Zoomy.

However I don't think it's worse than Zwerdjib's decline in effort; posting quality; various points made against him which I somewhat agree with, and the simple meta that this is exactly what he did last time he was scum.

##Vote: Zwerdjib
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 07:14:50 AM
Hopefully some of what I've said acts as fuel for the engines of this game to start up again. It feels like this game needs an awful lot of fuel to propel things through these choppy seas.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 07:16:22 AM
Oh yeah and it's 8am here [I got up at like 6am] and I have the day off and got my stuff done in large yesterday.

Dosen't mean I'll be right here in the thread constantly but I will be around if people want to poke me about stuff today is probably the best time.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 07:32:56 AM
Except I gave a basic reads list and even somewhat ordered my priority towards the end of Day 1? Or is a list of who I'd rather lynch not a 'basic reads list'. Opinions are reads.

I'm not sure what your obsession with reads lists is. I personally do not think we should give *full* read lists because it creates a town consensus as to who is town. This; in turn, paints massive targets on their backs saying 'SHOOT HERE'.

Quote
I REALLY do not like this stance; and it has basically removed my prior townread on Zoomy.
Tbh most of my behaviour regarding reads lists and that following Dormio onto Zwerd has been because getting any headway in any direction for anything has felt like an absolute chore. Town aren't playing and as a result aren't working together or being a cohesive unit. Dormio has been tunneling on Zwerd since D1, Bard's been tunneling Serela since D1, Nucleus has been on Yaer mostly since D1 etc... basically everyone is only working on one target and there's almost no two people wanting to work together on any target. The Abu lynch happened as I mentioned as a result of everyone thinking it was ok but not a priority and deadline pressure was looming. I don't really feel like I'm being listened to and I am struggling quite hard to have any sway anymore, we're all playing different games right now and half the players aren't showing up to the party. I'm prodding for reads lists to both have something that's easy to follow up on (because then you can ask why and dig deeper into reasons) and also to break up the tunneling, although at this point nobody is really listening anymore... ugh. Plus getting more fleshed out reads is better to look into connections after more flips happen.

Basically I'm reaching a point where I am feeling like I have to compromise onto my lesser scumreads just to actually get things moving again and no amount of stoking up discussion feels like it's working either. People aren't talking and if they are they're largely tunneling or saying very little about more than 3 people.

And also I thought it was a basic reads list and when I said that you corrected me calling it a "consolidation list" so I mean, that's on you? But I get what you're trying to say about it all. This point is more a matter of taking the words too literally at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 07:42:35 AM
Ok, I'm still not happy with your slot (epsecially considering I've been on your ass all game about getting reads and opinions out more and you turn up with a post that culminates in one big Zwerd = scum read and...little else other than apparently thinking I'm no longer a town-read).
But if you want to have a dialogue, let's do it. I'm open for questioning, maybe we can fuel the game's fires together. I really want this game to have activity again.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 08:04:57 AM
One slot I'm quite curious about is actually Meow.

It's a low-activity slot; but of all the low-activity slots, I feel that his slot is actually the most town-leaning. While he's not done much, I think what he has posted has been the most interesting. Contrast Year who's mostly just been prodding people.

Also as I've said a few times before; it's kind of hard to have reads with nothing to base those reads on.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 08:13:30 AM
Can you walk me through that distinction between the two, I know I asked why meow is better than Yaer to Dormio earlier as well and he came up with
Mostly because simply poking and prodding without following up to make it look as though you have some suspicions and are participating is scummier than not existing at all.
Like I feel that it's a really disingenuous way to make it look as though you're trying to scumhunt when, in reality, you aren't actually doing anything of significance at all.
Which is a fair point though I didn't fully agree with Yaer not doing much about his prodding (because I felt like he was clearly using his vote for pressure along with it). Do you share this mindset too?
What are you finding interesting in particular about what meow's posting?

Just off the top of my head though both Yaer and Meow have kind of felt like they're going tit for tat at each other this entire day phase and I feel like they're both genuine and coming from more towny perspectives? Although the low activity really puts a damper on my read for meow. Let me read through him again now I guess.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 08:29:25 AM
zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.

It's posts such as this one, where he is actively questioning multiple players. It feels like he's not just poking people to do something but actively attempting to advance the gamestate.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 08:32:19 AM
Ok for the sake of ease of reading along, here are literally all of meow's posts in the game up to this point.
Welp, here we go.

Absolutely nothing bad is going to happen, right guys? Right?
How is nuking everybody detrimental to North Korea again?
zwerdjib, during DEFCON 4 you said something about a massclaim at DEFCON 3. Are you gonna go anywhere with that?
But you were in the thread before I was and never brought it up?
DEFCON 3, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Alpha

Here's my Unofficial Votals™.

NucleusWaffles (5) - Yaersulf, Bardiche, NucleusWaffles, Serela, Daiya (L-2)
Daiya (2) - Dormio, zwerdjib
Serela (0) -
Beru (0) -
zwerdjib (0) -
Dormio (0) -
Yaersulf (0) -
Bardiche (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Chihiro Fujisaki (0) -
Abu (0) -

Not Voting (5) - Beru, meow56, Raikaria, Chihiro Fujisaki, Abu

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


[ Expired ]
I think zwerdjib is a town lean for me. Methinks that if scum!zwerdjib had specifically planned to make town massclaim then they would've asked for it immediately instead of waiting.

By the way, has anyone seen beru? They haven't spoken since DEFCON 5.
Yaersulf seems a little different I think, so them.

As for a second target, uh, I guess NucleusWaffles? If only to get the chaos out of the way.
Well, other obligations took longer than I expected. Sorry.

I'll be around until deadline, so I can hammer if necessary.
Town

Zoomy Tsugumi
zwerdjib
Dormio
Raikaria
Serela
Daiya
Beru
Abu
NucleusWaffles
Bardiche
Yaersulf

Scum
##Vote: Abu
zwerdjib: What part of my reads list made you think it was satire?
Zoomy Tsugumi: Why did you vote Abu over Serela at EoD?
Bardiche--He lurked more than I thought he did, which seems more unusual coming from a non-lurker (?). I suppose I'll have to set aside this case until Tuesday though...
Yaersulf--I feel like you posted more last game than this game, which is weird because I figured you'd be more confident this time around. So the reason for that would be that you're scum who doesn't know how to act.
Yaersulf, mind explaining what was so weird about my reads list?
And are you going to say anything about my reasoning? You did ask about it, after all.
And, do you actually think Dormio is scummy or are you just going to toss shade at him?

And finally, ##Vote: Yaersulf. Should've done this before.
I guess my conclusions from these posts are that there's been very little pushes of substance on either D1 or D2.
Although I think I'm reading an earnesty in the pokes and prods enough to read it as a newbie town who is finding it hard to follow up reliably and make pushes readily in the first place. The Zwerd townread feels like an organic conclusion as you follow the posts, as well as some of the other scumreads they've brought forth, even though some of them kinda come out of nowhere the reasons given make sense if I were to put myself in meow's shoes.

CUT: Yeah I can agree with that. I think I'm comfortable townreading Meow now. Let me look into Yaer next
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 09, 2020, 08:59:07 AM
Dormio; I'm gonna have to agree with Zwerd on one matter: You are tunnelling. You've said little~nothing about any other player. Can you please comment on some other matters as well as voting for Zwerd? I'm not asking you to change votes or anything, I'm just simply asking for you to do something other than tunnel Zwerd.
You mean literally this post?

People that don't really exist:
Daiya - For what it's worth, I think the few actual content posts they've made are actually okay, so I'm not really looking too hard here unless something egregious happens to jump out at me.
beru - Consists of pretty much entirely non-content posts. Is also replacing out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bardiche - Similar to Daiya, the few posts he has don't really bother me so it's a slot that is there.
Yaersulf - Doesn't exist outside of just poking and prodding at a few people and then disappearing. If we were consolidating on a lurker lynch, this is the one that I'd go for.
Meow56 - Doesn't exist.

People that do exist:
Dormio - This is me.
zwerdjib - This is scum.
NuclearWaffles - This is probably the SK.
Serela - Flailing around in typical Serela fashion, his D1 posts looked pretty bad. D2 looks like he's actually putting effort into the game but this is a slot that I'm keeping my eye on.
raikaria - I was going to say that this one seems sane, but Zoomy Tsugumi brings up a good point about this slot in their latest post. This is another slot to keep an eye on, I suppose.
Zoomy Tsugumi - This one seems sane.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 09:03:50 AM
Oh hang on I think I found something big on Yaer?
Here's every post of Yaer's pertaining to Zwerd in some manner.
I'm not sure what to do here, other people seem to have the zwerdjib angle covered, and while it's really easy to just poke Nucleus and have weird seemingly incriminating words come out I'm not sure how much that's worth doing before it just becomes redundant noise.

Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words.

Meow what are your thoughts on the unfolding zwerdjib saga seeing as you were early to raise suspicions about that.

And what do people in general think about how sure Nucleus seems to be that Raikaria is town, do you think that means anything?
Ok yeah that's fair, I suppose it'd be more accurate to revise that to "I agree that zwerdjib looks suspicious, but not as suspicious as Nucleus, and I'm not sure what I could contribute to the case on him that more experienced players aren't already doing better than I could." And as for me thinking nobody really looks suspicious other than those two, I've tried rereading and looking for stuff but if there's something there I'm missing it, though I'm not even too sure what it is I'm supposed to be looking for. This is only my second game so I'm still not sure exactly what scuminess looks like at this point in the game. Except in obvious cases like Nucleus.
Elaborate please Zwerd.
You mean trying to use lack of meta information as an out of having to comment on people?
I'd like to call attention to the fact that Abu hasn't answered my request for his opinions on people. Seeing as I haven't done the same I'll do so so that my request isn't so hypocritical.

DTL(Down to Lynch): Abu, Nuclearwaffles, Beru
Got my eye on you >_>: Zwerdjib, Meow
Not sure: Serela, Raikaria, Daiya, Bardiche
Team Systemic Racism(A.K.A 'Murica, A.K.A Town): Dormio, Zoomy Tsugumi
Oh yeah I didn't mention him because not much has changed regarding the Zwerdjib situation, but he's definitely still suspicous and worth considering.
The things that struck me as odd about your reads list were Bard and I being your top scumreads, over say Abu and Beru. I can understand me being a scumread, but not a top scumread if that makes sense. Also Zwerdjib being so high.

As for your reasoning, there's no way you could know this so it's not like I'm saying your reasoning is flawed but, I'm never confident. It's a problem.

And Dormio, I'm not saying he's scum and we should lynch him or anything. Just throwing out a wild crackpot theory. Though I do think we should keep an eye on him. But then again we should probably keep an eye on everyone. As the wisemen say, trust nobody not even yourself.
I'm liking this lynch Zwerd idea, he's definitely in my top 3 for most lynchable.
Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

Either way
##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 09:06:17 AM
Actually I guess with the existence of the SK scum can't be sure who is definitely town so uh this probably means buddies?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 09:08:24 AM
You mean literally this post?

I probably should have elaborated that I wanted a little more... uh... detail if possible.

Oh hang on I think I found something big on Yaer?
Here's every post of Yaer's pertaining to Zwerd in some manner.
Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

Either way
##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf


Question: If you think Yaer's alignment is connected to that of Zwerd; what makes Yaer a superior lynch to Zwerd?

I mean I guess Yaer has been overall less active but Zwerd has just kind of stopped being useful too ever since maybe Late Day 1?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 09:09:25 AM
I probably should have elaborated that I wanted a little more... uh... detail if possible.

Note: I appreciate there's a lot of players who don't have much content to give detail on.

I think the one I'd like to hear most about your opinion on is Serela; since I myself am having a difficult time with that slow; and your opinion seems to be shifting over time on Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 09:11:42 AM
Question: If you think Yaer's alignment is connected to that of Zwerd; what makes Yaer a superior lynch to Zwerd?

I mean I guess Yaer has been overall less active but Zwerd has just kind of stopped being useful too ever since maybe Late Day 1?
I mean tbh I made the vote with more confidence because I didn't make the immediate connection in my next post of the existence of the SK clouding the idea of scum knowing people are outright town. Hence the idea that Yaer is the one with more info prevailed until I countered my own thought right after lol, I am still happy with a Zwerd lynch.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
Sorry it's not an SK its an ITP oof, getting my terms mixed up
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 09:40:51 AM
Oh yeah I guess another point to bolster my case is that Yaer's never even specified what things he finds suspicious at Zwerd either, it's always left ambiguous.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
holy strawberries when I went to bed there had only been 3 posts since mine
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2020, 01:02:06 PM
Looking over Yaer, I think he kind of falls into the same boat as Zwerd for me where I think the d1 makes sense from them as town but d2 just kind of goes downhill from there. That being said, I'd still prioritize the zwerdjib lynch over yaer's.

No one's interested in Bard today so I'm fine with shifting my votes from 1. Bard and "if I had a second vote" on Zwerd, to the other way around.

##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib


Also uh, if I'm reading timestamps right, Bard literally hasn't posted in 42 hours. Are people sure they aren't interested in voting there today
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 03:32:53 PM
I see.

##vote yaersulf

Lynch this and trust me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 09, 2020, 05:13:45 PM
uh

it's not like voting yaersulf is the wrong move in your situation since he's the clear counterwagon, but i'm not sure how 'trust me' is supposed to mean something in this context

on a skim of your posts i can't find literally any mention of yaersulf before
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 06:03:21 PM
uh

it's not like voting yaersulf is the wrong move in your situation since he's the clear counterwagon, but i'm not sure how 'trust me' is supposed to mean something in this context

on a skim of your posts i can't find literally any mention of yaersulf before

i have a relatively big post

it was supposed to be done a while ago but i fell asleep
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 06:55:22 PM
I see.

##vote yaersulf

Lynch this and trust me.

There's logic here. There's a burning within my soul, awakening the anger within my heart. I've decided to win this game. I'm going to list who I think is scummiest, least to most.

Raikaria.

I'd be genuinely baffled if this man died as anything but a townie. He has clean progressions. He's on Serela levels of thought explanations. He's looking for people who are trying to play to win. Overall, he's an active contributor and one of few who aim to keep the game together.


Zoomy.

Sure, this is an activity read. You're free to bite me. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, being that they're also included in the list of the few people who are trying to keep the game together.


Serela.

Theoretically, Serela should be higher on this list. However, I'm not necessarily certain that they're town.
Looking over Yaer, I think he kind of falls into the same boat as Zwerd for me where I think the d1 makes sense from them as town but d2 just kind of goes downhill from there. That being said, I'd still prioritize the zwerdjib lynch over yaer's.

No one's interested in Bard today so I'm fine with shifting my votes from 1. Bard and "if I had a second vote" on Zwerd, to the other way around.

##Unvote
##Vote Zwerdjib


Also uh, if I'm reading timestamps right, Bard literally hasn't posted in 42 hours. Are people sure they aren't interested in voting there today

This post is mainly the reason why. It's such an easy wagon hop that I can't help but instinctively read it as bad.


Meow.

He's a lurker, so he automatically loses points. However, I would like to bring up

One slot I'm quite curious about is actually Meow.

It's a low-activity slot; but of all the low-activity slots, I feel that his slot is actually the most town-leaning. While he's not done much, I think what he has posted has been the most interesting. Contrast Year who's mostly just been prodding people.

Also as I've said a few times before; it's kind of hard to have reads with nothing to base those reads on.

...and that's really all.


Nucleus.

I mean, he's playing very strangely regardless of his alignment. I can't read it. Not at all.


Dormio.

Believe it or not, I think he's actually not that scummy. However, if it isn't obvious, his tunneling is grounds for scrutiny, he's only popped in to expand his case on me (rather than his view of the game) and he's not even necessarily that active. Overall, not a good look.


Beru.

What can I even say here? There's no content to judge.


Bardiche.

I mean... he's okay? I can see... a universe where he is town? I don't think he's low efforting because he chooses to? Am I too naive? Is anyone actually opposed to his lynch?


Yaer.

Zoomy, for the most part, has explained this for me. However, I would like to add that, to my memory, this is similar gameplay to his YS game.

Dude, is the game really this small?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
I suppose now the question is asked: what next?

We can see if pressuring Yaer will get us anywhere. If he's town, we reevaluate. If he's scum, we look off of the wagon.

Why?

I'm sure almost everyone who's wanted to vote him has literally parked their vote. Whether they're casing him is another story, but from my perspective, anyone who busses him would likely have planned to bus from almost the start. With that said, as another option, we should also be looking on the wagon in dire cases, but past Zoomy's vote. If it really gets to it, I think then we should be looking for a bus. But for now, I think I would like to apply Occam's razor and assume that

- if Yaersulf is Mafia

and

- if Yaersulf is lynched

then

- very likely, his partner was not on the wagon, or he was bussed late.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 07:04:02 PM
On an unrelated note, I've realized why I was so demotivated.

It's because the amount of effort I put in is vastly disproportionate to the odds that we win the game.

But I've decided to accept that. Let's accept the future.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
After all, gentlemen, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 09, 2020, 08:01:34 PM
I'm a little confused. There's been a couple of times during this whole thing where Zwerdjib has turned purple and his attitude has almost seemed to change in these purple parts.

And now he appears, with a different avatar, spewing purple posts and being a whole lot more useful.

This development is intriguing. Purple Zwerdjib appears to be the superior Zwerdjib. If this one sticks around, I don't feel like lynching it.

##Unvote

##Vote: yaersulf


I mean, I've already said he's not particually outstanding. I'm happy to go along with the other active players saying he's scummy, even if I just have him as a lurker slot and see no particular reason to lynch this over Beru. But I guess the Beru slot might just get modkilled.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 09, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
This is a test. I've accepted this test to stand victorious against my past. A person grows once they are able to defeat their weaker self.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 09, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
Hello. Please do not make votes in alternate colors.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 09, 2020, 09:19:00 PM
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Mike

Mod edit: this vote count is messed up due to an editing mistake

zwerdjib (2) - Dormio,  Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi
Yaersulf (4) -  NucleusWaffles, zwerdjib, Raikaria, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi
Serela (1) - Bardiche
NucleusWaffles (0) - Yaersulf
Raikaria (0) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (0) - Yaersulf
Bardiche (0) - Serela, Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Daiya, Beru, meow56

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Beru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: meow56 on June 09, 2020, 10:20:31 PM
NNR, you missed a few votes:

##Vote: Yaersulf
Though I am going to immediately ##Unvote to prevent L-1 shenanigans.


##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib

##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 09, 2020, 10:30:28 PM
Aww geez, this is what I get for getting distracted from the game I guess, I should have learned from Abu's example. Ironically I was going to write some words that probably would have included some of this yesterday but then I discovered that SOTN randomiser is a thing. Whoops.

=
Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

This seems to be the main allegation against me so I'll explain my thinking on Zwerd so far this game. As I'm sure you all rememeber early D1 Zwerd called for a massclaim, and some people started explaining why that was a bad idea and why that made Zwerd look scummy. Seeing as this was based on analysing why someone would call for a massclaim at the start of D1, and that's something that people who've played more are more qualified to do, I left it to the more experienced players who were already on the case and tried to direct my efforts elsewhere (partially because people keep saying that on this forum lurker!scum tend to get away with just flying under the radar D1 and I was trying to make that harder for them.)

Late D1 to early D2 despite people pushing him pretty hard Zwerd didn't really defend himself (not inherently scummy imo), but also seemed against any measures to actually progress the game and find scum (seems pretty scummy.) At this point I probably should have weighed in with what I thought about it but there didn't seem to be a lot to say, would have been something along the lines of "Yeah I agree that his early D1 massclaim idea was suspicious, mosltly based on the word of more experienced players, and the more he actively doesn't contribute the more and more suspicious of him I'm becoming."

And now Purple!Zwerd shows up and actually starts contributing. This is undoubtedly a reaction to the realisation that if he didn't do something like this he was going to get lynched tonight. Whether that makes him scum is another question, there's two options that I see here.

Option 1: DemoralisedTown!Zwerd tries to do something that he thinks will help D1, gets shut down, and gives up when he realises he's basically signed his own execution order by trying to do something that benefits scum unwittingly. Then D2 he happens to start to care as he's looking to be about to be lynched.

Option 2: Scum!Zwerd tries to do something clever D1 and use the unconventional setup to try and convince people to do something beneficial for scum. Experienced players see through this and call him out, and realising his mistake he gets demoralised and doesn't bother trying to pretend to be town very hard. D2 realising that it's coming to the point where he's imminently going to get lynched for his mistake, possibly encouraged by his scumteam, and seeing an out in the forming train on me, he decides to reinvent himself and drop the baggage from D1.

Is option 1 possible? Yes, but in my limited experience I don't think that the threat of lynching would be what would get a severely demoralised town to start contributing, they'd more likely accept their fate and not mind getting lynched out of the game I'd think. Whereas for scum being lynched is far more serious, with added pressure from their scumteam not wanting them to throw the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 09, 2020, 10:31:30 PM
##Unvote
##Vote:Zwerdjib
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 09, 2020, 11:54:33 PM
I'm getting hardcore "scum deciding to hard bus each other" vibes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: meow56 on June 10, 2020, 02:27:07 AM
Okay, I ISO'd everyone and pulled together a read list. Sorry for wall.

Serela - Seems very sure that there are 4+ town vigs, which doesn't sound right. You'd think town would end up favoring power roles to nukes... Also giving me a lot of newbie cred, though once again under the assumption that we can just nuke me in the end. Though also seems to think nuking me would be a coin toss. Made a case against Bardiche, also willing to lynch zwerdjib. Overall leaning scum.
Daiya - Prodded people d1, gave lots of reads as well. Then disappeared d2. Leaning town, but would like them to get back to the game at some point. Slowly moving down as they've yet to appear.
Beru - Replacing out.
zwerdjib - Seemed to give up on D1, but is back with a vengeance or somesuch. Advocated DEFCON3 massclaim and got lots of flak for it. Getting tunneled on by Dormio. Still think they're town; if they've happened to find the drive to go the distance all the better.
NucleusWaffles - Opens by posting a "breaking" strategy that doesn't really work out, gets lots of flak for it. Thinks Yaersulf is scummy for voteparking, then townie, then scummy again. Has kinda disappeared toDay. I'll place them slightly north of neutral.
Dormio - Very much tunneling on zwerdjib. Gave opinions of others but very limited. Would like to hear more (as raikaria has alluded to). Scum lean.
Yaersulf - I stand by what I said earlier, I feel like Yaersulf should be more confident. The Big Post™ is a little weird, given their posting habits. See also their last game, where they basically gave up re: getting lynched.
Bardiche - Going to wait until they post more before making a decision. Though this wait has been taking a while...
raikaria - Doesn't have a lot of time, but makes the most of what they do have. I like that they've read me enough to actually give a read instead of just saying "lurker". Town.
Zoomy Tsugumi - Is trying to figure this game out, poking people and, like, actually playing the game. Is trying to reinvigorate the town. Town.

Zoomy Tsugumi Town
zwerdjib
raikaria
Daiya Town Lean
NucleusWaffles Neutral
Beru
Bardiche
Dormio Scum Lean
Serela
Yaersulf Scum

zwerdjib: You missed Daiya in your read list, so what do you think of them?
Yaersulf: If we mislynched zwerdjib, worst-case leaves us at 4:3:1 tomorrow. At this point I highly doubt any town would lay down and die in the face of a mislynch.
Hopefully Daiya, Bardiche, NucleusWaffles, maybe even Dormio get in here and post something.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 10, 2020, 02:49:45 AM
i don't like zwerd's recent posts at all. first he sinks away from his inability to push back against dormio which i'm not convinced wasn't just an omgus case atp, only to provide a read list with little substance and practically no scumreads, which culminates in sheeping the case on yaer? it feels highly opportunistic, and the way he responds to pressure like that feels grimy as fire truck. i'm having a lot of trouble seeing this slot as town

##vote: zwerdjib

 i'm also curious as to why i was omitted from your read list. activity is hardly an excuse there, as you already mentioned beru

@Zoomy: while i do find the case on yaer to be sound, that line of reasoning is a bit dependent on zwerd's alignment. idt it makes much sense to go for him over zwerd as things stand, as long as you believe that zwerd is scummy
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 10, 2020, 02:53:00 AM
I'm a little confused. There's been a couple of times during this whole thing where Zwerdjib has turned purple and his attitude has almost seemed to change in these purple parts.

And now he appears, with a different avatar, spewing purple posts and being a whole lot more useful.

This development is intriguing. Purple Zwerdjib appears to be the superior Zwerdjib. If this one sticks around, I don't feel like lynching it.

##Unvote

##Vote: yaersulf


I mean, I've already said he's not particually outstanding. I'm happy to go along with the other active players saying he's scummy, even if I just have him as a lurker slot and see no particular reason to lynch this over Beru. But I guess the Beru slot might just get modkilled.
i don't like how easily you were swayed by zwerd's comeback, especially on a basis that's hardly related to his actual content

also, i really don't like your stance at the end and feel that it runs contrary to the townplay i've seen from you. when you saw a lynch occuring that you weren't down for, you fought against it. but that level of conviction just isn't here this time. i let it slide with beru since there really wasn't much time to consolidate, but now? when there's still over a day left? i'm not feeling it. if you don't believe that yaer might actually be scum, then why join the wagon?

furthermore, i'm still curious about your stance on serela. i believe that you scrutinized his case on bard a bit, but apart from that? you've expressed little actual suspicion against him despite making claims that he was waffling multiple times, most recently during this phase. so how exactly does that factor in to your presumably null read on him and why are you more content to push a lurker lynch hat you don't even consider particularly scummy over him?

and zwerd changing his aesthetic is the point. he wants to create that distinction. the blatant theatrics at a time like this makes his slot seem more red than purple to me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 10, 2020, 02:53:58 AM
apologies for the extra bolding
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 02:55:18 AM
Zoomy if your entire case on me hinges on Zwerd being scum and me being his scumbuddy, could you at least agree to lynch him first seeing as that's where the suspicion comes from. Correct me if I'm wrong but going off what you've said then from your perspective it'd be:

Lynch me I flip scum -> Zwerd is probably scum
Lynch me I flip town -> Initial D1 Zwerd things still apply and you have no more info about Zwerd than before

Lynch Zwerd and he flips scum -> I could be scum
Lynch Zwerd and he flips town -> There's nothing pointing to me being scumbuddies with Zwerd if he's not scum

I.e if you lynch Zwerd there's a chance it gives info about me, but if you lynch me it doesn't give info(or at least far less) about Zwerd.

Of course if we do lynch Zwerd and he flips scum it doesn't look good for me but, well I'd rather take that risk and I guess if it ends up with me getting lynched I'm happy to trade one for one with a scum.

Cut by 3 Daiya posts I haven't read yet.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 03:27:05 AM
How tempted I was to say "fire truck this." and quote my post about effort not equating to wins.

How tempted.

But you didn't get that. Sucks to be you.



Aww geez, this is what I get for getting distracted from the game I guess, I should have learned from Abu's example. Ironically I was going to write some words that probably would have included some of this yesterday but then I discovered that SOTN randomiser is a thing. Whoops.

This seems to be the main allegation against me so I'll explain my thinking on Zwerd so far this game. As I'm sure you all rememeber early D1 Zwerd called for a massclaim, and some people started explaining why that was a bad idea and why that made Zwerd look scummy. Seeing as this was based on analysing why someone would call for a massclaim at the start of D1, and that's something that people who've played more are more qualified to do, I left it to the more experienced players who were already on the case and tried to direct my efforts elsewhere (partially because people keep saying that on this forum lurker!scum tend to get away with just flying under the radar D1 and I was trying to make that harder for them.)

Late D1 to early D2 despite people pushing him pretty hard Zwerd didn't really defend himself (not inherently scummy imo), but also seemed against any measures to actually progress the game and find scum (seems pretty scummy.) At this point I probably should have weighed in with what I thought about it but there didn't seem to be a lot to say, would have been something along the lines of "Yeah I agree that his early D1 massclaim idea was suspicious, mosltly based on the word of more experienced players, and the more he actively doesn't contribute the more and more suspicious of him I'm becoming."

And now Purple!Zwerd shows up and actually starts contributing. This is undoubtedly a reaction to the realisation that if he didn't do something like this he was going to get lynched tonight. Whether that makes him scum is another question, there's two options that I see here.

Option 1: DemoralisedTown!Zwerd tries to do something that he thinks will help D1, gets shut down, and gives up when he realises he's basically signed his own execution order by trying to do something that benefits scum unwittingly. Then D2 he happens to start to care as he's looking to be about to be lynched.

Option 2: Scum!Zwerd tries to do something clever D1 and use the unconventional setup to try and convince people to do something beneficial for scum. Experienced players see through this and call him out, and realising his mistake he gets demoralised and doesn't bother trying to pretend to be town very hard. D2 realising that it's coming to the point where he's imminently going to get lynched for his mistake, possibly encouraged by his scumteam, and seeing an out in the forming train on me, he decides to reinvent himself and drop the baggage from D1.

Is option 1 possible? Yes, but in my limited experience I don't think that the threat of lynching would be what would get a severely demoralised town to start contributing, they'd more likely accept their fate and not mind getting lynched out of the game I'd think. Whereas for scum being lynched is far more serious, with added pressure from their scumteam not wanting them to throw the game.

This... isn't reinvention. This has always been present. Whether you've noticed it or not is not within my jurisdiction.

On a related note:

Quote
Option 2: Scum!Zwerd tries to do something clever D1 and use the unconventional setup to try and convince people to do something beneficial for scum. Experienced players see through this and call him out, and realising his mistake he gets demoralised and doesn't bother trying to pretend to be town very hard. D2 realising that it's coming to the point where he's imminently going to get lynched for his mistake, possibly encouraged by his scumteam, and seeing an out in the forming train on me, he decides to reinvent himself and drop the baggage from D1.

You think this is because I'm getting lynched? Only partially. But a lot of it is because I've realized that you are the one who has eluded me.

There is no escape.

I'm thunderdoming. Let's duel. No escape.

i don't like zwerd's recent posts at all. first he sinks away from his inability to push back against dormio which i'm not convinced wasn't just an omgus case atp, only to provide a read list with little substance and practically no scumreads, which culminates in sheeping the case on yaer? it feels highly opportunistic, and the way he responds to pressure like that feels grimy as fire truck. i'm having a lot of trouble seeing this slot as town

##vote: zwerdjib

 i'm also curious as to why i was omitted from your read list. activity is hardly an excuse there, as you already mentioned beru

@Zoomy: while i do find the case on yaer to be sound, that line of reasoning is a bit dependent on zwerd's alignment. idt it makes much sense to go for him over zwerd as things stand, as long as you believe that zwerd is scummy



Little substance? No scumreads? Did you read the post, man? The middlepoint is Nucleus. It's probably arbitrary from your perspective, and I apologize for not highlighting that, but it's pretty clear that anything below Nucleus is a candidate for voting.

And I forgot you were in the game. I was going off Dormio's reads post (which should also be scrutinized for literally the exact same reasons that you're ragging on me for) and I suppose I just skipped your name.

Here's your entry, though, since you want it so badly.

Daiya.

He pops in, like the ebb and flow of an ocean, elegance of a swan. But his content is so lacking to me. I'm biased here - on both sides - for obvious reasons, but I can't believe in how much he wants to solve the game. It's not the same feeling as, say, Serela.

i don't like how easily you were swayed by zwerd's comeback, especially on a basis that's hardly related to his actual content

also, i really don't like your stance at the end and feel that it runs contrary to the townplay i've seen from you. when you saw a lynch occuring that you weren't down for, you fought against it. but that level of conviction just isn't here this time. i let it slide with beru since there really wasn't much time to consolidate, but now? when there's still over a day left? i'm not feeling it. if you don't believe that yaer might actually be scum, then why join the wagon?

furthermore, i'm still curious about your stance on serela. i believe that you scrutinized his case on bard a bit, but apart from that? you've expressed little actual suspicion against him despite making claims that he was waffling multiple times, most recently during this phase. so how exactly does that factor in to your presumably null read on him and why are you more content to push a lurker lynch hat you don't even consider particularly scummy over him?

and zwerd changing his aesthetic is the point. he wants to create that distinction. the blatant theatrics at a time like this makes his slot seem more red than purple to me.

Nevermind. I suppose you're fine.

Here's a recent town game (https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/26028-Ticked-Off-Light-Game%21) for reference. This isn't an act. This is a test of will.



By the way, no one has taken up the suggestion to nuke someone so that we don't need to waste our lynch on certain slots.

Hopefully you can decipher from context what "certain slots" means.

I'm getting hardcore "scum deciding to hard bus each other" vibes.

I feel bad for you, trying to understand the game like this. Rationalizing certain interactions only helps post-flip, though. It's true that you need to look at things through multiple perspectives in Mafia, but from years of experience, sometimes thinking that we live in X universe or Y world is going to blind you to the alternatives.

Zoomy if your entire case on me hinges on Zwerd being scum and me being his scumbuddy, could you at least agree to lynch him first seeing as that's where the suspicion comes from. Correct me if I'm wrong but going off what you've said then from your perspective it'd be:

Lynch me I flip scum -> Zwerd is probably scum
Lynch me I flip town -> Initial D1 Zwerd things still apply and you have no more info about Zwerd than before

Lynch Zwerd and he flips scum -> I could be scum
Lynch Zwerd and he flips town -> There's nothing pointing to me being scumbuddies with Zwerd if he's not scum

I.e if you lynch Zwerd there's a chance it gives info about me, but if you lynch me it doesn't give info(or at least far less) about Zwerd.

Of course if we do lynch Zwerd and he flips scum it doesn't look good for me but, well I'd rather take that risk and I guess if it ends up with me getting lynched I'm happy to trade one for one with a scum.

Cut by 3 Daiya posts I haven't read yet.


Quote
Lynch me I flip scum -> Zwerd is probably scum

Excuse me? How did you form this conclusion, again?

Do you itch to die? Do you want to take me with you, knowing that I'm guaranteed to be lynched if - no, when, you flip mafia?

Insisting on your death is not a bright idea, regardless of your alignment; but if you believe you'll indict me (despite the fact that your lynch definitely gives more info about my slot than vice versa) then I can't help but see this as a scummy move.

In other words: I won't grant you that satisfaction.



Unrelated note: I picked purple because it's my favorite color and the color of regality.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 03:34:52 AM
...madamada pawa o kanjiru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 03:35:52 AM
@Zoomy: while i do find the case on yaer to be sound, that line of reasoning is a bit dependent on zwerd's alignment. idt it makes much sense to go for him over zwerd as things stand, as long as you believe that zwerd is scummy
Zoomy if your entire case on me hinges on Zwerd being scum and me being his scumbuddy, could you at least agree to lynch him first seeing as that's where the suspicion comes from.
Let me go check votecounts to see what Zwerd and Yaer are at first before I change anything around.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 03:43:50 AM
Zwerd (4): Dormio, Zoomy Tsugumi, Raikaria, Serela, Yaersulf, Daiya
Yaersulf (4): Meow56, NucleusWaffles, Zoomy Tsugumi, Zwerdjib, Raikaria

Should be the current standings on both their wagons for the whole day. So they're both currently at L-2.
##Unvote
Well, to avoid L-1 shennanigans I'm openly stating my intent to vote for Zwerd, so consider yourself at L-1, can we get a claim?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 03:51:15 AM
Zwerd (4): Dormio, Zoomy Tsugumi, Raikaria, Serela, Yaersulf, Daiya
Yaersulf (4): Meow56, NucleusWaffles, Zoomy Tsugumi, Zwerdjib, Raikaria

Should be the current standings on both their wagons for the whole day. So they're both currently at L-2.
##Unvote
Well, to avoid L-1 shennanigans I'm openly stating my intent to vote for Zwerd, so consider yourself at L-1, can we get a claim?

I... literally claimed at daystart.

Air Base.

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that despite asking for a massclaim I literally claimed Bulletproof Townie. As the first person.

Also, read the previous page; there's a post you'll definitely want to look at.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 03:56:11 AM

Yaer.

Zoomy, for the most part, has explained this for me. However, I would like to add that, to my memory, this is similar gameplay to his YS game.

Note: Zoomy's argument involvles Zwerd himself being scum.

I suppose now the question is asked: what next?

We can see if pressuring Yaer will get us anywhere. If he's town, we reevaluate. If he's scum, we look off of the wagon.



You think this is because I'm getting lynched? Only partially. But a lot of it is because I've realized that you are the one who has eluded me.

There is no escape.

I'm thunderdoming. Let's duel. No escape.


This doesn't seem to be very consistent to me.

I don't need to fight you if you're already fighting yourself. :V
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 03:57:19 AM
I guess I should ask, what makes you think I've scum Zwerd that isn't me being scumbuddies with you?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 03:59:43 AM
Words are hard.

What makes you think I'm scum Zwerd, that isn't Zoomy's case that I'm your scumbuddy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 04:00:22 AM
I... literally claimed at daystart.

Air Base.

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that despite asking for a massclaim I literally claimed Bulletproof Townie. As the first person.

Also, read the previous page; there's a post you'll definitely want to look at.
Gosh ur right lmao I totally forgot.
Anyway I'm not sure which post you're referring to so feel free to help me along here.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:13:58 AM
Oh hang on I think I found something big on Yaer?
Here's every post of Yaer's pertaining to Zwerd in some manner.
Yaer's been on board with being suspicious of Zwerd basically all game, except he's never made a push of his own on Zwerd, never voted for Zwerd, and even on his big reads list featuring the whole playerlist Zwerd wasn't in his most suspicious pool, but he has prodded for thoughts from Zwerd and prodded people to give thoughts about Zwerd.
What this tells me is that Yaer probably knows Zwerd's alignment, and has been intentionally dancing around the lynch. Whether this is because Zwerd is a scumbuddy and he's looking for towncred post-flip for being sus of him in the past? Or he's aware Zwerd is town and has been on board with the read the whole game because he's a likely mislynch candidate and it would justify a switch onto the wagon down the line. I am not confident enough to distinguish which it is at this point.

Either way
##Unvote
##Vote:Yaersulf


This implies scumbuddies? I’m leaning toward the TMI push.

Gosh ur right lmao I totally forgot.
Anyway I'm not sure which post you're referring to so feel free to help me along here.

Yaer quoted it. Follow the link.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 04:23:55 AM
Yeah uh, if it's your reads post I'm not really sure what I need to pay attention to there either.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:28:12 AM
Yeah uh, if it's your reads post I'm not really sure what I need to pay attention to there either.

*sigh*
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 06:17:28 AM
So MotK as down when I woke up and I gotta go to work and it's just come back so prod dodgeing atm for when I'm back from work.

OFC content happens when I sleep.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 06:47:01 AM
I was gonna post but I collapsed and wound up in the hospital lol

I'm going through the thread and trying to gather my thoughts, but isn't Bulletproof the sort of thing you don't claim, so you can draw the Scum/3P NK and survive anyway? Silly Zwerdjib.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 07:43:27 AM
Oh hey the site is back.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 07:47:13 AM
Anyway, zwerdjib's attempt to force a 1v1 between himself and Yaersulf (when Yaersulf was already the leading counterwagon) seems like a really last-ditch effort to try to cast suspicion away from himself. I like my vote where it is.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 09:05:55 AM
Glad Zwerdjib decided to break the flow on DEFCON2. Not sure I'm entirely fond of leaning on Raikaria/Zoomy opinions for reads on others, especially on Yaer. Like, literally, "vote Yaer, trust me" followed by "Zoomy made the case for me, plus it's similar to Ys gameplay." Also don't really like, "Daiya's content is lacking" and then two lines later "Nevermind he's fine."

Quote
It's because the amount of effort I put in is vastly disproportionate to the odds that we win the game.

This is ironic because until now, almost no effort was put in.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 09:20:05 AM
Back to my favourite player, Serela. And by favourite, I mean would nuke/10 player. If only I had a nuke to deploy.

Recommended reading: Exh A (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7817#msg7817).
Quote
I think dormio looks fine enough right now, been trying to figure out where I stand on zwerd and I don't know which is why I haven't been commenting on it much
On a re-read I really just don't like this line. It's commenting on the Dormio/Zwerd spat, while covering his base to vote Zwerdjib later on if it seems Dormio'll get traction... while at the same time making it easy to clear Zwerd with a "I decided he's Town" read.

Which you'll note Serela lightly does here (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7917#msg7917) and then again here (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7947#msg7947), basically insisting he doesn't want to lynch Zwerd despite not actually having ever stated a read on Zwerd one way or the other. Nor any apparent attempt to change that.

You'll note that part of his case on me (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7951#msg7951) notes my attack on Zwerdjib. Interestingly, Serela's interest in a zwerdjib lynch grows at this point (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8015#msg8015) when the game's essentially in deadlock.

Meaning, it's a perfect time to prepare yourself for a "I was part of that wagon!!" moment and bus a buddy.

When Serela finally does vote Zwerd (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8075#msg8075), there's been virtually nothing he's written on Zwerd since the first post I linked other than "not interested in a zwerd lynch".

Basically, if we lynch Zwerd and he flips Scum, that just goes to show Serela's Scum, too. This level of reasoning is possible when you're recovering.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
So let's talk Dormio, since he was a thing for Nucleus (reminder to self: Nucleus proposed lynching Dormio early, gotta see if he made an attempt to even divine Dormio's alignment lately).

Also interesting to note Zwerd townread Raikaria by the time Dormio voted him, which is rather early to be locking yourself into townreads like that. Think I agree with Dormio in that it's a bit weird to marry yourself off to someone because they explained basic game theory.

There's not much else to Dormio other than an unhealthy obsession with Zwerd, but I don't think he's been particularly bad about it. I similarly don't really enjoy building cases that amount to nothing more than "this player doesn't post much": in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7875#msg7875) I'm pretty much in agreement that there's smol pickings from the active playerbase, though I'm kind of baffled he neglected to mention me, since he had a high opinion of me before.

What's your opinion now, Dormio?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 09:51:14 AM
Yaersulf puts into words his gameplay: (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7721#msg7721) "Nobody else seems to have done anything suspicious, so I guess I'll just try to make people say words."

I don't think admitting to not having any scumreads and being this open and frank is really symbolic of a scum-minded player. Coupled with that honesty, I'm inclined to take his NK confusion (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7944#msg7944) at face-value and assume he truly expected an NK to occur. There's no value for scum to talk about it, because they'd already know they can't NK.

One point I do think looks odd is claiming he has an eye on Zwerd (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7882#msg7882) but then not mentioning him whatsoever until zwerd made the top 3 most lynchable (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8043#msg8043).

Can you explain for me, Yaer, why you just didn't talk about him much? Like others said, it's like you've been avoiding saying much on Zwerd while keeping the option open. You said you were DTL Abu and Meow but why haven't you expanded on that much since then either?

It looks like you had some opinions but don't care enough to hold them particularly long, so I'm interested in an explanation for this odd behaviour.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:04:38 AM
In summation, I re-read DEFCON 2, and am of the opinion that Serela is still very much worth lynching. Zwerdjib's got that entire "I'm so demotivated" vibe going after Dormio votes him, and I think it's a little weird to just claim effort disproportionate to odds of winning game. Not like I've been a shining beacon of EFFORT, and I agree putting in a lot of effort doesn't always come appreciated, but to just completely drop off and strawberriespost is another thing altogether.

Kinda similar to Nucleus's audaciously insane behaviour.

Speaking of, don't like the misrep (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8011#msg8011) from his side on "Bard's def of Dormio was the big thing", though I guess for him it must be true. But most notably, townreads Yaer (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8011#msg8011) based on Zoomy, then votes Yaer (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8052#msg8052) because he suddenly dropped in activity and switched style (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8053#msg8053).

Kind of a big leap from "I think he's town" to "let's lynch him he's scum".

Note that Nucleus actually voted Yaer before (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7851#msg7851), because he was a major scumread (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7793#msg7793).

So the chronology goes:
Nucleus scumreads Yaersulf for voteparking
Nucleus votes Yaersulf for "switching voting styles"
Nucleus townreads Yaersulf for "Yaer likes using his vote as a baton"
Nucleus votes Yaersulf for "switching voting styles"

Basically, Yaersulf bad for vote parking. Yaersulf bad for not voteparking. Yaersulf Town for not voteparking. Yaersulf scum for--

Yeah.

It's a completely inconsistent and illogical, same with I townread Bard (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7785#msg7785) to accusing me of chainsaw defending (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7876#msg7876) and dreaming up a Bard/Dormio scumteam (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8011#msg8011).

Basically, Nucleus doesn't seem married to any of his opinions and changes them on the fly, possibly because his scumreads are just inventions of the time.

##Vote: NucleusWaffles
And I'm 100% comfortable now that this should be a more major focus than Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:07:55 AM
Basically, the initial plan to get everyone to nuke everyone is 3P-minded. Posting all sorts of unclear nonsense is obfuscating and unhelpful. And now constantly swapping his reads around to whatever is convenient at the time just reads like someone whose investment in the game is no more than a passing fancy.

I think a real Townie would be informed by his suspicions. That's to say...

If I think someone hates me, then I assume they're being sarcastic when they say, "Nice shoes you've got."
If I think someone likes me, then I assume that same comment is a compliment.

I don't think it's possible for a Townie who heavily suspects Yaersulf of scum to suddenly read his actions in a Townie way, but then flop around immediately again to distrust at the drop of a hat.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:09:55 AM
I should probably talk about Zwerdjib but I still think he's scummy for refusing to do much more than active lurk, and only deciding to be active at the 11th hour.
Would be down to lynch Nucleus, Serela, Zwerd in that exact order, but could be persuaded to slot in Yaersulf depending on his next post(s).
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:14:03 AM
anyway i put down a vote and some thoughts

peace out m8s

Kidding, but I really should get to work on my next deadline EVEN THOUGH THE DOCTORS SAID I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO WORK AGAIN HAHAHAHAHA imgoingforasecondcollapseholdmybeer
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 10:14:34 AM
You were a shining beacon of sanity, disappeared, and returned as my shining light in these trying times.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:19:19 AM
cool come vote nucleus
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
BTW between Yaer/Zwerd I favour lynching Zwerd ofc.

Yaer is Nucleus lite in terms of holding opinions but at least he's honest in that he doesn't really have strong suspicions, and I guess his NK flub can be seen as Scum trying to out a doctor but it'd be so... weak and bad it's laughable to treat it as anything but an earnest moment of "whups".
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 11:11:27 AM


Can you explain for me, Yaer, why you just didn't talk about him much? Like others said, it's like you've been avoiding saying much on Zwerd while keeping the option open. You said you were DTL Abu and Meow but why haven't you expanded on that much since then either?

It looks like you had some opinions but don't care enough to hold them particularly long, so I'm interested in an explanation for this odd behaviour.

Yeah in hindsight I probably should have more clearly expressed my opinion on Zwerd. As I've said before my thoughts on him D1 were something along the lines of "Based on what more experienced players have said about his massclaim idea I agree he seems suspicious, and I'm happy with how Dormio is pressuring him and don't feel like I could add to this meaningfully." But then I didn't really convey that very well, iirc I just said something like "I agree he's suspicious." Then as he starting active lurking stand-offishly I grew more and more suspicious of him but never really clearly expressed that when I should have. Twice even I was actually going to make a post that probably would have included Zwerd words but decided I was too tired and it wasn't that important seeing as I didn't think that people really needed persuading that Zwerd was suspicious.

Basically I made the mistake of assuming that the ways in which Zwerd was suspicious were so obvious that they could go without saying. But now I'm finding that's not a very good way of looking at things in mafia is it? Assumptions are the mother of all fire truck-ups once again.

As for Abu and Meow; Abu I was just poking because he was lurking and then he didn't respond to things, and at the time I said he was DTL iirc I was in the process of trying to get him to stop ignoring me and actually say words. Wasn't much more to it than that.

Meow I don't really have anything super concrete on other than his weird reads lists that always seem to have Zwerd as town for some reason. And weird priorities on who's scum (though I might be a bit biased on that last bit seeing as I was his top scumread.) Basically I thought he was worth pressuring because he looked the most scummy of the not-obviously-suspicious people at the time (the obviously-suspicious people being Nucleus and Zwerd).
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 11:21:49 AM
Oh and as for Nucleus, I'm 100% happy to lynch him. I just think Zwerd should come first because we'll get more information out of that (even if that information might be bad for me :V)

And I don't know the full story but, Bard I hope you're alright, and please take care of yourself.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 10, 2020, 11:23:25 AM
Though I guess if we lynch Nucleus and he's third party that gets rid of a NK, and if we lynch Zwerd  and he's scum that doesn't get rid of a NK.

Hmmm.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 10, 2020, 11:41:50 AM
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Mike

zwerdjib (4) - Dormio,  Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, Yaersulf, Daiya
Yaersulf (3) -  NucleusWaffles, zwerdjib, Raikaria, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi
NucleusWaffles (1) - Yaersulf, Bardiche
Serela (0) - Bardiche
Raikaria (0) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (0) - Yaersulf
Bardiche (0) - Serela, Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Beru, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Beru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 11:55:48 AM
cool come vote nucleus
But I want to lynch zwerdjib more. D:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
But I want to lynch zwerdjib more. D:


D:


Be my shining light as well, what do you think about Selery and Yaersulf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
I know people have said that they think that Selery is scummy but I don't really see it myself.
Yaersulf I can see as being scummy individually as well as not liking the interactions between him and zwerdjib.

Also, the thing about NuclearWaffles is that I'm pretty sure he's going to be nuked at the soonest possible opportunity.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
I mean I’d be DTL Zwerd but if Nucleus just sets his silo to defensive how u gonna nuke him lol

I think we should lynch/10 him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 01:08:23 PM
Anyway, zwerdjib's attempt to force a 1v1 between himself and Yaersulf (when Yaersulf was already the leading counterwagon) seems like a really last-ditch effort to try to cast suspicion away from himself. I like my vote where it is.

If you had read the page you would realize this was in response to Yaer doing more or less the same; but your ignorance to the game is noted.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 01:14:43 PM
Glad Zwerdjib decided to break the flow on DEFCON2. Not sure I'm entirely fond of leaning on Raikaria/Zoomy opinions for reads on others, especially on Yaer. Like, literally, "vote Yaer, trust me" followed by "Zoomy made the case for me, plus it's similar to Ys gameplay." Also don't really like, "Daiya's content is lacking" and then two lines later "Nevermind he's fine."

This is ironic because until now, almost no effort was put in.

It’s a thought process. A progression. You’ll realize a shift throughout the post. That’s mostly the point of it.

As for why it has to be Yaer... I don’t remember. Desolé.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 01:16:29 PM
I was gonna post but I collapsed and wound up in the hospital lol

I'm going through the thread and trying to gather my thoughts, but isn't Bulletproof the sort of thing you don't claim, so you can draw the Scum/3P NK and survive anyway? Silly Zwerdjib.

ok to be fair i didnt actually realize it was equivalent to bp townie until i was told :v
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
I mean I’d be DTL Zwerd but if Nucleus just sets his silo to defensive how u gonna nuke him lol
... I forgot that defensive silos were a thing.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 01:23:18 PM
But it's okay all that means is that more people have to nuke NuclearWaffles with me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 01:27:19 PM
But it's okay all that means is that more people have to nuke NuclearWaffles with me.

is this sk or what
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 01:29:57 PM
No, lol.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
ok to be fair i didnt actually realize it was equivalent to bp townie until i was told :v


Air Base literally says it includes the NK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 02:25:54 PM
Honestly by this point Zwerd why’d you even pick the role then lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 02:27:46 PM
Idk, I don't feel confident enough in Nucleus flipping scum to think about lynching him before Zwerd or Yaer personally. It could be that I'm blinded by the eccentricity but I can't see his posts as weird-scum.
Maaaaayybbeee he's the third party, but at the same time his early-mid D2 posts give me a town lean more than anything.

Also Beru should be nuked tomorrow too if that slot doesn't end up modkilled overnight. Everyone's kind of forgotten about them but they didn't really leave on a good note either so nothing's been cleared up re:their alignment. Could easily be scum or even the third party.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:01:24 PM
Honestly by this point Zwerd why’d you even pick the role then lol

so mafia wouldnt
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 04:11:22 PM
OK so:

1: Deadline is while I'm sleeping. I won't be awake at 2am. Sorry.

2: I actually almost forgot Daiya was in the game.

3: I'm not too sure about the merits of a hard 1v1 between Zwerd and Yaer. Perhaps if we're in a hard 1v1 situation, we should use power roles to help determine the correct course of action, and lynch the player that is pretty much universally considered to be a likly 3rd party; Nucleus.

4: But then again there's the argument of nukes on players like Beru, Nucleus and maybe even Daiya. But I'm not really big on the nuke meta.

so mafia wouldnt

But why would mafia pick a bulletproof when the only thing it saves them from is North Korea? Surely Mafia would prioritize other Power Roles. Even Nukes over BP because they know 100% who is not aligned with them so can just launch nukes at will.

If anything Bulletproof is a NK pick to stop them from being killed by the Mafia since their wincon is specifically their own survival...

Wait a second.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 10, 2020, 04:12:06 PM
and im locking myself as town; i expect you to do the same, reader

if i die n1 dont be surprised

and if i dont, ive probably gotten the air base ive wanted

lets hope i dont get the aircraft carrier i want then, yeah?

heh

that's a lie.

it's true that you implied that believed the role would protect you from nukes, but you already spoke of it in the context on preventing you from getting nightkilled before that.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 04:12:46 PM
so mafia wouldnt


It’s the only answer a Townie can give at this point that rhymes with “I claimed asap”.


Kinda wish you’d come up with something convoluted that’d make it easy to say, “Ah yeah, 100% scum” but never an easy road, huh.




Cut by Rai. Air Base also immunes against everything but nukes, so immune investigative roles, too.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 04:13:38 PM
Then Daiya comes in with a sweet catch, nice.

Willing to vote Zwerd at this point but I’ll be around for deadline.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 04:16:25 PM
Quote
Air base - Capable of deploying a wide variety of response aircraft within seconds and fortified to the brink, any infrastructure surrounding the air base becomes incredibly difficult to penetrate. You are immune to all non-nuclear activated abilities, including the factional nightkills.

Yeah going deeper into this:

1: Claiming Air Base as Town just stops mafia shooting you and makes them shoot other townies. Especially as Nukes [And I would expect Mafia to have picked at least one] bypass the defence. Claiming a Silo would be far superior as a Town standpoint, unless you are specifically counter-claiming.

2: Since Nukes bypass Air Base anyway, why would you pick it as Town? Did you miss out on several other PR's? Even then, I'd argue Defensive Silo is superior

3: As I mentioned before; North Korea has to be alive to win; so declareing you are Air Base to discourage Mafia shooting you in the first place seems like a very NK stance tbh. Same with picking Air Base. No other player would immediately lose the game if nightkilled; except North Korea.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 04:17:53 PM
Two issues w/ nuke plan:


Defensive silos
Fail Safe




Cut by Rai.
I thought NK won so long as everyone is dead?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 04:17:59 PM
Oh derp Air Base also stops cops and such.

Which makes it even worse on a Town player; but does support the 'I picked it so mafia didn't' claim. I still think it's not Town to claim Air Base.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 04:20:27 PM
I thought NK won so long as everyone is dead?

Oh yeah NK wins if literally everyone else dies via MAD as well. But a dead NK cannot control that. Also this means the final players need to die simultaneously if I recall?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:38:25 PM
that's a lie.

it's true that you implied that believed the role would protect you from nukes, but you already spoke of it in the context on preventing you from getting nightkilled before that.

carrier =/= air base

and no im trying to rationalize myself why i picked air base

i simply dont remember
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:39:31 PM
OK so:

1: Deadline is while I'm sleeping. I won't be awake at 2am. Sorry.

2: I actually almost forgot Daiya was in the game.

3: I'm not too sure about the merits of a hard 1v1 between Zwerd and Yaer. Perhaps if we're in a hard 1v1 situation, we should use power roles to help determine the correct course of action, and lynch the player that is pretty much universally considered to be a likly 3rd party; Nucleus.

4: But then again there's the argument of nukes on players like Beru, Nucleus and maybe even Daiya. But I'm not really big on the nuke meta.

But why would mafia pick a bulletproof when the only thing it saves them from is North Korea? Surely Mafia would prioritize other Power Roles. Even Nukes over BP because they know 100% who is not aligned with them so can just launch nukes at will.

If anything Bulletproof is a NK pick to stop them from being killed by the Mafia since their wincon is specifically their own survival...

Wait a second.

:v
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:42:43 PM

It’s the only answer a Townie can give at this point that rhymes with “I claimed asap”.


Kinda wish you’d come up with something convoluted that’d make it easy to say, “Ah yeah, 100% scum” but never an easy road, huh.




Cut by Rai. Air Base also immunes against everything but nukes, so immune investigative roles, too.

oh my god im a derp

i mean investigatives are hardly relevant here besides fighter though

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:52:43 PM
Yeah going deeper into this:

1: Claiming Air Base as Town just stops mafia shooting you and makes them shoot other townies. Especially as Nukes [And I would expect Mafia to have picked at least one] bypass the defence. Claiming a Silo would be far superior as a Town standpoint, unless you are specifically counter-claiming.

2: Since Nukes bypass Air Base anyway, why would you pick it as Town? Did you miss out on several other PR's? Even then, I'd argue Defensive Silo is superior

3: As I mentioned before; North Korea has to be alive to win; so declareing you are Air Base to discourage Mafia shooting you in the first place seems like a very NK stance tbh. Same with picking Air Base. No other player would immediately lose the game if nightkilled; except North Korea.

1. correct. i believed i would be an important enough asset to merit grabbing a bulletproof role. obviously, i was wrong

2. read 1

3. north korea does *not* have to be alive to win. lmao.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Daiya on June 10, 2020, 04:53:02 PM
what was your priority list for the role picks?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
what was your priority list for the role picks?

i was about to post this one sec
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:55:52 PM
1. air base

2. aircraft carrier

3. espionage

4. battleship

5. fighter

6. eavesdrop

7. radar

8. submarine

9. failsafe
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 04:58:15 PM
addendum:

"if i get none of these, rand me nuclear missile silo"
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 05:02:09 PM
> picks all 9 roles

> if I don't get any of these, give me the missile silo

???

???

???

(https://i.imgur.com/sohWhy9.png)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 05:04:37 PM
> picks all 9 roles

> if I don't get any of these, give me the missile silo

???

???

???

(https://i.imgur.com/sohWhy9.png)

How many players were in the game at the start again?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
Please hear me out.

The default is missile silo.

You said, "Give me literally anything else, and if not, you can give me missile silo."

It's legit the only possible result if you didn't manage to get anything else.

Quote
If you do not successfully choose another role, you will default to missile silo in nuclear launch mode.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 05:12:31 PM
Like, that's not a scumread or anything but just me poking at you over something that's a little silly, since even without the addendum you woulda gotten missile silo if you didn't get "literally any other role."

The most pertinent info there is that you'd rather have had literally any other role before missile silo, and that you wanted Air Base because you felt you'd be a huge asset... then proceeded to spend the better part of the game moping because Dormio voted you and being generally lethargic because "effort put in is disproportionate to chance of winning the game."

If you got the role you wanted because you thought you'd be an asset, why did you pointedly NOT behave as an asset despite getting that desired role?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 05:16:42 PM
On an unrelated note, I've realized why I was so demotivated.

It's because the amount of effort I put in is vastly disproportionate to the odds that we win the game.

But I've decided to accept that. Let's accept the future.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: zwerdjib on June 10, 2020, 05:18:17 PM
Like, that's not a scumread or anything but just me poking at you over something that's a little silly, since even without the addendum you woulda gotten missile silo if you didn't get "literally any other role."

The most pertinent info there is that you'd rather have had literally any other role before missile silo, and that you wanted Air Base because you felt you'd be a huge asset... then proceeded to spend the better part of the game moping because Dormio voted you and being generally lethargic because "effort put in is disproportionate to chance of winning the game."

If you got the role you wanted because you thought you'd be an asset, why did you pointedly NOT behave as an asset despite getting that desired role?

hindsight is 20/20
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 10, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Oh yeah NK wins if literally everyone else dies via MAD as well. But a dead NK cannot control that. Also this means the final players need to die simultaneously if I recall?
There is a grace period during endgame to allow sufficient time for a nuke to land.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: raikaria on June 10, 2020, 07:29:37 PM
So at maximum I'm only around for 3 1/2 more hours, and that's maximum. It's more likly ~2 1/2.

But hey I managed to at least find something to post some sort of crazy thing about [Zwerd NK?]

But seriously I need to decide which of Zwerd; Nucleus or Yaer I'm consolidating on.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 10, 2020, 08:43:57 PM
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count November

zwerdjib (4) - Dormio,  Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, Yaersulf, Daiya
Yaersulf (3) -  NucleusWaffles, zwerdjib, Raikaria, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi
NucleusWaffles (1) - Yaersulf, Bardiche
Serela (0) - Bardiche
Raikaria (0) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (0) - Yaersulf
Bardiche (0) - Serela, Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Beru, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Beru
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 10, 2020, 09:01:18 PM
I likely won't be around for deadline due to work, and if I do manage to get on, I'll be on my phone so activity will be limited regardless.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
i have like 20 minutes

i've already skimmed through everything

i will probably not be back before deadline

ok uh let's do this
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:23:02 PM
Re:meow
Quote
Serela - Seems very sure that there are 4+ town vigs, which doesn't sound right. You'd think town would end up favoring power roles to nukes... Also giving me a lot of newbie cred, though once again under the assumption that we can just nuke me in the end. Though also seems to think nuking me would be a coin toss. Made a case against Bardiche, also willing to lynch zwerdjib. Overall leaning scum
In the first time DEFcon was hosted, town had 3~4 PRs. Scum/ITP were all PRs. So town had 5 nukes, granted some died by then. 3~4 town nukes is pretty likely.

re:bard
Quote
On a re-read I really just don't like this line. It's commenting on the Dormio/Zwerd spat, while covering his base to vote Zwerdjib later on if it seems Dormio'll get traction... while at the same time making it easy to clear Zwerd with a "I decided he's Town" read.
this was like mid d1, I'm supposed to have a clear read on everyone already?

Then you nitpick that zwerd is not someone I'm interested in lynching while we're CLOSE TO D1 DEADLINE AND NEED TO CONSOLIDATE, because, uh... of course I don't want to lynch someone I don't have a read on over people I think are actually scum. How is this bad of me.

And then you suggest it's scummy that I change my read on zwerd d2 after zwerd spends two days laying in a pile doing literally nothing because dormio voted him. Like. The dude gave me ample reason to change my mind. Also, you're complaining that I finally got a read on zwerd after complaining I didn't get one faster???? I'm so confused about your case on me, Bard. :C

On the upside the later reasoning I guess is less "this is scummy of serela" and more "this looks like scum bussing" so I guess I only need to worry about defending against it if he flips scum, but, uh, I think he's GOING to flip scum which is why I'm voting him, so

re:Zwerd
It wasn't a vote hop. I telegraphed it all day that I was developing a significant scumread on you. I even said I'd be voting you if I wasn't voting bard. It was already most of the way through the day and time to consolidate. My current vote had no traction. Of course I swapped votes.

brb cookies in oven

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:27:06 PM
i don't think we should vote waffles because i think he's more likely to flip ITP than scum and plenty of people are on board with him getting nuked tomorrow. If he turns out to be a missile silo in defensive mode someone can just nuke him again. For an actual lynch it's best to aim for the scummy scum scum.

Well, I guess if we lynched ITP it removes a nightkill actually, but itp hunting is also uh, difficult and weird, because do they REALLY post that much differently than they would as town? They don't have buddies or know who scum are, they need scum dead too, etc. this is actually a legitimate question I'm not sure

errr ok yaer vs zwerd. they both suddenly jumped into action when put under fire, uhh lets see here

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 10, 2020, 10:27:35 PM
Vote zwerdijib

work reasons to lynch scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:30:19 PM
On gut I think zwerd's complete flailing in relation to his role and how and why he chose it suggests he's town

logically, I think he's probably scum and the meta matches up with his previous scum game

life is hard
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
i think yaer's doing ok for a newbie but the d2 hasn't been as much of a town lean as their d1 was

however d2 did kind of hardcore stall out until the very end in general, tbh

i wouldn't entirely mind their lynch but I'm not like super interested in it either so it's really more on how I feel about zwerd for where I consolidate towards here

DO I GO WITH GUT OR LOGIC AAAA I'M SUPPOSED TO BE LEAVING IN A MINUTE
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 10, 2020, 10:40:20 PM
going off which wagon has town reads on it isn't really helping because my hard town reads are only like, zoomy and rai and they're one on each

I typed up that i'd go with my gut and put in a vote on yaer, but it just felt wrong and i won't be back to revaluate probably

i'm gonna stick with what makes sense and stay on zwerd
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
I'm awake, and still wanting to remove either Zwerd or Yaer.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
Although if I look off of who is on what wagon the only answer that makes sense is Zwerd since Yaer's wagon is two of my scumreads and a null-leaning town lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 10, 2020, 11:19:50 PM
##Vote: Zwerdjib
This just seems like the optimal option, good chance of flipping scum and the flip will give us probably the most connection tells out of all 3 options. A good heft of my townreads are pushing this too.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 10, 2020, 11:57:57 PM
Quote
this was like mid d1, I'm supposed to have a clear read on everyone already?

Yes. Get all the reads, you waffle-iron.

2hrs to hammer and I'm gonna sleep so, I assume Nucleus will be around to hammer this home? More discussion in the mean time? Zwerdjib sings a swan song?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 11, 2020, 12:05:28 AM
Im at work for the next hour and so, in case a hammer drops, but the rules allow Twilight discussion anyhow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 11, 2020, 12:14:27 AM
##Vote zwerdijib

Forgive me using an alt to hammer. At work.

If I don't die tonight I will nuke Yaersulf tomorrow. Can be convinced to nuke Dormio.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 11, 2020, 01:41:36 AM
Hammer Shut Up!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 11, 2020, 01:47:26 AM
Quote
DEFCON 2, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Oscar

zwerdjib (6) - Dormio,  Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, Yaersulf, Daiya, Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles
Yaersulf (2) -  NucleusWaffles, zwerdjib, Raikaria, meow56, Zoomy Tsugumi
NucleusWaffles (1) - Yaersulf, Bardiche
Serela (0) - Bardiche
Raikaria (0) - Zoomy Tsugumi
meow56 (0) - Yaersulf
Bardiche (0) - Serela, Yaersulf
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) -
Beru (0) - 
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (3) - Beru, meow56

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[ Expired ]

I still need a replacement for Beru

A full scale military attack was required to dismantle the operations of zwerdjib, American Air Base

It is now the DEFCON 2 Night Phase. Hostile factions may deploy Stealth Bombers. Deployed roles may send in night actions. The next phase will begin in 24 hours.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 02:31:45 AM
DEFCON 1
COCKED PISTOL

(https://i.imgur.com/jqRgBQw.png)

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP)- After an intense debate between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladmir Putin over which sport of 'Football' is the better one, Trump blocked Putin through the social media website.
(https://i.imgur.com/DiNlTUd.png)


MOSCOW (RT)- сука блять

Beru, Russian Missile Silo was strategically bombed overnight.

DEFCON 1 is now in effect.
Nuclear War is imminent.

You have 5 days to decide on a lynch. With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 02:34:52 AM
##Nuke: NucleusWaffles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:40:24 AM
I just want to say that I'm mad at myself for lynching Zwerd
Hindsight is 20/20 and looking back post-flip Zwerd was trying to give one last general hurrah after it became clear that it was virtually a 1v1
Compare this to Yaer who tried to approach the angle of "Lynch Zwerd first because the case relies on us being buddies", it was bargaining, it was a move to get the lynch away from him, knowing Zwerd wouldn't flip scum and would try to push the angle of "well we aren't connected, so"
Yaer absolutely needs to die today, whether it be by nuke or lynch.
But for now, all I can do is ##Vote:Yaersulf

I also would wager that Dormio has a high chance of being the last scum. He used Zwerd as an excuse to do very little else all game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 02:42:27 AM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1


(https://i.imgur.com/IyKnr4B.png)

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility XR-213 , currently commanded by Dormio.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory . . .
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to NucleusWaffles.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate on Saturday, June 13, 10:34:52 PM EDT

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 02:43:15 AM
Welp, I wasn't expecting that. I hadn't even considered that Zwerd would flip town.

Dormio you were gunning pretty hard for Zwerd, where do you think we should be looking next? Iirc you haven't done a proper reads list yet so now could be a good time for that now that there's a lot more information on the table?

Cut by 2
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 02:56:00 AM
hi, not around to do much atm. i will, however, out myself as the sub. unsure if using another nuke today is that good of an idea, but consider it an option
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:46:50 AM
OK, so the SK killed a scum, and the bulletproof and blocker are both dead, so that means the doc must have successfully saved someone, and both them and their target can be safely assumed as confirmed town.

That doesn't necessarily mean they should be claiming right now, but, I just want them to realize that whenever they eventually do think it's time to claim, yeah, I'm pretty sure there's no reason both them and their target aren't practically confirmed town? I guess one could say "scum gambit!!" but even Serela Of The Gambits thinks that makes absolutely no sense in the context of this situation.

I'm also very tired and going to bed soon, so the real post comes later.

##Vote Bardiche

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:55:45 AM
i'm tempted to nuke bardiche because I don't think it's super likely I get enough people on board with lynching him anytime soon, but i should probably see what waffles flips first since bard was starting to prioritize him over even me, and also he could theoretically be the doc and i don't want to have to just recall my nuke and sob that i can't use it on anyone else
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:59:53 AM
eh then again i guess scum!bard could realistically move to 'bus' waffles because of the strong implication someone or another will probably nuke him d3 like dormio did, so it's not like putting him as top priority actually affected his survival chance in any significant way

hmm. maybe there isn't a point to waiting for waffle's flip if it's result isn't actually of any worthwhile impact on bard's potential alignment. it's good to frontload some nuke flips so we have more daylight left to discuss their results and factor them into our lynch, as well, as opposed to my nuke killing Bard with less than half a day left.

that being said i definitely want to ask bard if he's secretly the doc first because yeah there's no way in hell i'm nuking the doc who just saved someone
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:00:43 AM
also uh

waffles uh

are you the doc waffles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:02:21 AM
since on the offchance waffles is miraculously the doc, dormio does still have like 23 hours during which he can cancel the nuke, and it'd be nice for the claim to happen with enough time left we can have everyone confirm waffles isn't lying
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 05:26:22 AM
As some of you may be able to deduce from the nuclear weaponry currently flying towards NuclearWaffles, I remain convinced that this is the most likely candidate to be the SK.

Anyway, since zwerdjib was somehow not scum, I need to reassess the situation.
I actually think that I dislike Zoomy a lot now as a result of zwerdjib's flip.
I feel like his switch to pushing zwerdjib's wagon was pretty opportunistic. It was only when zwerdjib started looking like a viable lynch during D2 that Zoomy started to really start pushing this case.
Though pushing is a bit of an overstatement. A lot of Zoomy's posts with regards to zwerdjib were sheeping my points and stating that zwerdjib was being useless during D2 (which were also things that I was saying).
I don't like how he immediately made a cover story for himself in his first post of D3, talking about how he regrets the lynch in hindsight and using this to immediately move to Yaersulf who Zoomy was pretty defensive of yesterday.
Like, for example, when I explained why Yaersulf was my preferred lynch out of the not-really-posting category (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7968#msg7968), Zoomy's response was that they didn't really see it and thought Yaersulf was being newbtown (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7969#msg7969).
Why is Yaersulf defending himself in the "1v1" between him and zwerdjib scummy and not newb!town?
Also what happened to the raikaria suspicion that you were gunning so heavily for.
Like I find it hard to believe that you would so easily drop everything related to raikaria in order to go for Yaersulf in light of my scumread flipping town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 05:29:37 AM
##Vote: Zoomy Tsugumi

I forgot to include this in my last post.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 05:40:03 AM
Did you miss the whole part where I cased Yaer after rereading his ISO and finding something that seemed really sus?
I feel like that was a pretty natural progression of thought and I'm not sure how it can be made any clearer, everything I said on all those pages was train of thought thinking. And back to my original case of why Yaer being scum was because he was acting like he had knowledge beyond town's knowledge, that's still valid and even more damning knowing that Zwerd flipped town, so Yaer was acting even moreso than you're accusing myself of having him as a back pocket mislynch.

My Zwerd reads initially were townreading him D1, then getting unsure based on activity reads (which i openly stated I was feeling iffy about for a lot of people mid-D2), I also stated that I was basically sheeping you onto Zwerd because I felt like the game was stagnating and that it was not viable for me to keep pushing my best lynch candidate at the time and that somebody had to start compromising so I felt ok enough about the chances of Zwerd-scum to follow your vote onto it instead of continuing to push for Raik.

My Raik scumread still exists but I'm acting this way about Yaer because I feel like I got the ace in the hole for a scumtell, I am extremely gung ho about this and will genuinely die on this hill if I have to, there is no situation in my mind now where Yaer is town. Raik's someone I'm less confident on now, it's not been dropped but it's a 2nd/3rd priority now. I can't really feel super confident about him being in the same team as Yaer but because I'm not fully townreading him he's someone I'd want lynched/nuked before a lot of other people instead. tl;dr, I'm partially working via PoE reads at this point.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 05:44:02 AM
My Zwerd read was notably influenced by your opinions and also other people's and I admit to this, the Yaer tell and both their proceeding responses was my only real contribution to why I personally felt like Zwerd was scum, and this is why I'm annoyed at myself because I didn't trust my own instincts more and pushed harder for Yaer. I felt like the weird grandeur and sudden pushes of conviction from both of them immediately after was suspicious and I intentionally ignored a lot of what Zwerd said during that time because I felt as if it was a distraction.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 05:46:19 AM
Did you miss the whole part where I cased Yaer after rereading his ISO and finding something that seemed really sus?
I actually went back and looked through your ISO and I haven't seen this post before (https://shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8067#msg8067). I probably missed it due to work or something. Going to read through it in more detail now.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 05:48:18 AM
Anyway anyone wanting to read my ISO, i feel like my thoughts are all pretty clearly telegraphed and changed around there. To expect a townie to have fully consistent thoughts feels like a fallacy anyway so to be critiqued on the flip-floppy nature of my reads is a reach. To act like my behaviour around Yaer yesterday was 'defensive' when I made a notable big breakthrough in scumreading him halfway through the day is a reach.

The fact that you have chainsaw defended Yaer like this despite admitting at least a couple times yesterday that you agreed with my case on Yaer and that Yaer was individually scummy enough to consider lynching and that I was a sane townread for you is fishy as fire truck.
Not to mention that despite agreeing with my case yesterday to know what the reasoning was (that they seemed connected and Yaer was acting as if he had outside info) only to then go and misrep my behaviour around Yaer just now tells me this is a weak push to defend your buddy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 05:50:05 AM
ok no i goofed too i reread your post and you didn't state the dislike of interactions to be because of my case specifically
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 05:50:56 AM
Either way, defending Yaer like this is sus as hell to me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 05:56:42 AM
See the main thing I have an issue with is how unnatural your dropping of raikaria feels right now.
Like, yes, I can see the progression with regards to building towards Yaersulf much more clearly now taking the post that I missed into consideration.
However, I don't like how you keep putting raikaria on the backburner despite him being your primary suspect.
It's as though you're saving a backup lynch target and I really don't like it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 05:59:58 AM
OK, so the SK killed a scum, and the bulletproof and blocker are both dead, so that means the doc must have successfully saved someone, and both them and their target can be safely assumed as confirmed town.

This is my assumption as well; the Doc managed to block the scum nightkill. Although; why the SK would target Beru, who's slot had a legitimate chance of being modkilled is a little bit beyond me. Surely it would be in the SK's interest to target literally anyone else?

Anyway; I don't have much time before work, so I can't do too much right now.

> Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Wat
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 06:00:23 AM
See the main thing I have an issue with is how unnatural your dropping of raikaria feels right now.
Like, yes, I can see the progression with regards to building towards Yaersulf much more clearly now taking the post that I missed into consideration.
However, I don't like how you keep putting raikaria on the backburner despite him being your primary suspect.
It's as though you're saving a backup lynch target and I really don't like it.
the only person saying dropping is you, I've not said it's dropped, it's just lower priority.

If you had someone that's virtually confirmed scum in your mind, would you not be pushing hard for it and right out of the bat?
You should know this because you pushed for Zwerd all game even in the face of lynching other players who you agreed were scummy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 06:06:59 AM
Also is it really scummy to have 3 scumreads when there's 2 scum and a SK left in the game lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 06:23:06 AM
Paranoia!Dorm is still having trouble getting over what I see as holding the raikaria lynch in reserve.
The other half of me does want to see a Yaersulf lynch due to him essentially doing nothing but poke and prod people all game and that paranoia!Dorm is simply that, paranoid.
That, and also your train of thought does make significantly more sense with the post I missed from yesterday.
Mmmm. Okay.
##Unvote
##Vote: Yaersulf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 06:23:43 AM
Zoomy and Dormio I'm curious, at this point who are your townreads? Seeing as you seem to be burning bridges and casting suspicion upon each other.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 06:28:44 AM
Zoomy and Dormio I'm curious, at this point who are your townreads? Seeing as you seem to be burning bridges and casting suspicion upon each other.
Everyone who isn't you two and Raik atm, lol
Ik this doesn't account for the SK but honestly I have no idea what I'm looking for w/ finding them anyway so I'm just praying this Nucleus nuke is a correct shot on the SK because otherwise I will have to think about who it is and my brain does not want to handle that at the moment.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 06:35:52 AM
Paranoia!Dorm is still having trouble getting over what I see as holding the raikaria lynch in reserve.
anyway i think they call this irony
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 06:36:59 AM
?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 06:39:11 AM
You critiqued me for keeping a lynch in reserve but in the process of getting off me you left doubt that you were fully convinced, aka setting up a way back on me down the track, aka keeping my lynch in reserve too.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 06:40:36 AM
Oh, I'm dismissing my concerns regarding you as paranoia that was fueled by me literally not knowing about the post in which you built up your main suspicion of Yaersulf.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 07:04:39 AM
Dormio, please do me just one thing and tell me you are town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 07:05:53 AM
Hi, I'm town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
I was clearly saved by a doctor, time to nuke people out of orbit.

##Nuke: Yaersulf
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 07:12:28 AM
Last words, I am going to die, but remember this is where the game is just beginning.

My townie PoV feels that Serela can be scum with improved play but unlikely, and I am townclearing Zoomy and Raikaria.

These townclears can backfire on us, so be really careful.

My scum reads feel like Bardiche. I am not as sus on Dormio now because he has a nuke, and a SK lurker. Lurkers are hard to take out, but slay the hydra head one by one.

Have faith, have determination and we will win, don't get blinded by the scum NK too much. It is possible I was saved, possible SK omitted a NK, possible scum targeted scum because all scum got silos.

Most importantly, stay cool and don't paranoid, I think Dormio spreading paranoia is really scummy, so with the nuke going Yaersulf's way, I would lynch Dormio otherwise.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 07:13:16 AM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1


(https://i.imgur.com/IyKnr4B.png)

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility XC-64 , currently commanded by NucleusWaffles.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory . . .
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to Yaersulf.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate on Saturday, June 14, 3:12:20 AM EDT

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 07:28:02 AM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Papa


Yaersulf (2) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio
Bardiche (1) - Serela
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) - Dormio
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Dormio (0) -

Not Voting (6) -  meow56, Yaersulf, Daiya, NucleusWaffles, Raikaria, Bardiche

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
☢NucleusWaffles☢ - [ Expired ]
☢Yaersulf☢ - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:34:46 AM
Damn it, I wanted to wait until Dormio's nuke was locked in but fine. There's three main ways to die in this game and it could be any of them that I'm going to die to today so I may as well lay all my cards on the table.

I'm American Espionage.

N1 - Is Raikaria russian? No. (Important note: could still be third party)
N2 - Is Dormio russian? YES!

Honestly I kind of regret taking espionage now because I feel like I'm getting myself killed earlier than I should have due to my inexperience but well, hopefully I've managed to set things up so that my death helps town to actually win. Even if I die here I'll flip town and you'll get Dormio. Especially if Nucleus is third party that gives us a decent chance.

As to why I chose those two I figured that my role would be best used to hunt for scum that would be hard for people to hunt otherwise, i.e more experienced players. You'll notice that D2 I was probably unnaturally confident in defending Raikaria, this is because I knew that he's not scum. And my insistence on lynching Zwerd even if it meant me getting lynched today was in part because I genuinely thought Zwerd was scum, but also because I wanted to get one more use of my role before dying, either clearing or catching Dormio would both be good outcomes. You'll see that I kind of hinted that I was going to cop Dormio N2 when I threw out the wild claim that he might be scum due to us having trouble finding scum and that therefore possibly meaning that that's because the scum are experienced.

Whether or not you believe me is up to you but hopefully I've set things up well enough so that it doesn't matter either way.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:37:00 AM
By the way getting to watch that spat between Zoomy and Dormio while knowing that Dormio was scum was good television.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:40:59 AM
Knowing all that here's my analysis of where we stand:

Yaersulf - Town
Nucleus - Probably third party
Serela - ?
Raik - Town with very low chance of third party
Meow - ?
Bard - ?
Zoomy - Pretty safe to call this one town, especially seeing interactions with Dormio at the start of today
Daiya - ?
Dormio - Scum

Therefore we need to focus our efforts on analysing those ?s. I think Serela or Meow is most likely but there's nothing ruling Bard and Daiya out either.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:42:14 AM
Oh and of course:

##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 07:45:36 AM
Ugh I hate that I believe this because I was so convinced but this validates my dormio read and you're dying anyway so
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 07:49:38 AM
I hate using my mobile at work.

If Dormio flips scum before today ends I will stop the nuke.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 07:49:50 AM
What.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:52:21 AM
Dormio physically can't flip scum before the nuke lands unless we lynch him in less than an irl day :v
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 07:52:38 AM
Are you actually trying to out yourself as scum with Yaersulf or something?
Like I appreciate that Yaersulf did us all the favour of outing himself so quickly but are you seriously going to 180 that hard and basically claim to be Yaersulf's buddy?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 07:55:33 AM
You know Dormio it's kind of funny because you're going to get to have some fun with the fact that the entire period between Nucleus' nuke locking in and the end of the day you get to say whatever you want but none of it will matter because you're being lynched anyway.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 07:58:16 AM
I don't think it's wise to call off this nuke unfortunately.
If Yaer is telling the truth then we have a confirmed scum to lynch.
If Yaer isn't telling the truth we will know in 48 hours and it would mean he's lying scum.
If we call it off now, the possibility of it being a scum gambit will still be there.
So either way if it goes through there's a guarantee of getting scum and only a 50% chance of hitting town. It's a worthy risk.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
What made you cop Raik anyway?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 08:01:28 AM
Oh wait I read again and you wanted to look into ones that would be hard to catch. Yea that makes sense.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 08:04:05 AM
I copped Raik because D1 I thought that his interactions and the way people talked about him would give us good information if he was scum, in addition to what I said earlier about preferring experienced players as tartgets because we'd be more likely to catch less experienced players naturally.

Fun thing to note by the way: D1-D2 Dormio hard pushed one person that he knew was town (Zwerd) and used that to avoid talking about anything else. It was interesting knowing he was scum and watching him try to start tunneling Zoomy at the start of today only to back off and go for the easier target (me) when he realised that it wasn't going to work.

Cut by Zoomy
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 08:08:55 AM
I guess that means that it's time to play the waiting game.
See you all in two days where we get to see that, apparently, paranoia!Dorm should always be trusted.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 08:09:36 AM
@Serela: Trying to fish for the doctor so overtly? That's... fascinating. Threatening with nukes is cute but remember that nuking everyone in the game is the SK wincon.

That said, Yaersulf claiming Espionage on Dormio focuses minds completely, and I don't suppose we can be satisfied with any other lynch.

Nucleus, if you're Town, please recall that nuke. If we lynch Dormio and he flips Town, we can always nuke Yaersulf after. Almost want to propose turbo-lynching Dormio so Nucleus can call off the nuke during Night Phase if Dormio flips Scum (since Dormio nuking Nucleus is almost 80% sure they're not in cahoots, or it's a gambit with balls the size of Jupiter), though an SK Nucleus wouldn't call off his nuke anyway.

But I'd like to save Yaer if we can.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 08:10:44 AM
You can't recall nukes during the night.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 08:12:28 AM
Well that sucks.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 08:15:06 AM
I'm torn on this, on one hand keeping me alive would be good because it would mean that we'd get to keep our cop. On the other hand convincing Nucleus to call off the nuke then changing the target of the lynch to someone other than Dormio is the only viable way for scum to save Dormio.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 08:18:16 AM
>keep our cop.
Excluding the part where you clearly aren't a cop because you're making up a result on me?
Anyway, yeah, Zoomy looks terribad now and since there's no point in voting for Yaersulf...
##Unvote
##Vote: Zoomy Tsugumi
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 08:27:34 AM
Yeah absolutely do not call off the Yaer nuke, as I said if Yaer's telling the truth then we got a conf scum and a conf town in exchange for losing the cop. And if Yaer's lying then he's scum (I would hope that he's not lying town because that's so anti-town to fake cop results lol).
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 08:29:15 AM
And if Yaer doesn't flip at all there's still this possibility that this is a scum gambit
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 08:29:38 AM
Ok so as I said, the only way to save Dormio for scum is to convince Nucleus to un-nuke me and then convince town to lynch someone other than town. However there's no possible way that with things how they are for Dormio to argue for not nuking me. It's entirely possible that what's happening here is Dormio calling in a potential Scum!Bardiche to be the one to argue for calling off the nuke to give them the opportunity to argue for a lynch on someone else.

Cut by two Zoomys
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 08:30:55 AM
Convince town to lynch someone other than Dormio*.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
ah. reading through yaer, him being espionage kinda makes sense. the weird flip he made to defending raik n2 felt unnatural
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 10:36:53 AM
So Bard is scum/SK with Dormio?

##Vote Dormio

The chainsaw defence Day one makes sense then.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 10:40:30 AM
If Dormio flips before 20 hours I get to cancel nuke, and we confirm Yaersulf if really is a cop, and confirm if I am lying if I dont nuke cancel.

Its fully townsided to turbo Dormio, do it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 10:42:18 AM
The window is really short, but I still get another 15 hours before Dormio’s nuke hit me so I can still contribute as a stump.

With Yaersulf’s play turboing Dormio is now the optimal town break for this open setup, lets bring this home
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:44:51 AM
Nukes take two days to resolve, not one. It's as though nobody even bothers to read the rules.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 10:47:17 AM
You keep calling it a chainsaw defence but from where I stand, it was calling you out for being a dick. I would've called you out regardless of who your target was, because "Let's lynch person X because they're person X" is 100% a dick move.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:50:12 AM
Yea we can't lynch and then cancel the nukes bc nukes are locked in after 24 hrs and night alone takes 24 hrs. There's no feasible way to get a flip from a lynch and be able to cancel (and FWIW, the rules state we can't do any game actions post-hammer either, so there's no hammering and then recalling a nuke in the twilight). We'll have to wait 2 days until the flips from these nukes happen.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 10:50:20 AM
I fully and humbly apologise for my D1 play.

I promise to never meta-case people like this anymore, but this game unluckily I seem to have actually hit scum.

I will play more ethically from now on, but for now we have a golden opportunity to win the game as town, and as town I must take it.

Sorry for the scum/SK factions.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 10:58:07 AM
Yeah, I read the rules and I cant nuke cancel after lynch.

Sorry, no good turbo option is available then. This setup is very well designed indeed!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
I'm really unhappy with the zeal for nuking people have, because there's still an SK out there (and nuking someone with an armed missile silo just means someone else is getting nuked, usually).

I don't mind lynching Dormio since we have a claimed cop result on him─I guess if you're set on nuking Yaer we can wait for Yaer to flip, so either Yaer flips Town Cop and we lynch Dormio, or Yaer flips Scum and we're still down another scumbag. I do mind how you're trying to set up me as some scumbuddy, based on this faulty "chainsaw defence" line.

You're suggesting a Scum!Bard would've somehow been so concerned over you meta-casing Dormio like that, that I'd immediately jump on it and shine a spotlight on myself for it... because I worried there were six other dicks in the game who would've holly-jolly gone ahead with the lynch based on meta.

Sorry, but that doesn't happen. I've played this game for years, a single vote does not bother me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 12, 2020, 11:48:39 AM
Bardiche, I know this is in game but I am genuinely happy.

I wanted to be out and Dormio obliged, I felt we had a spiritual connection (I played in his game and made it fun, he is now obliging me and letting me make this game fun as fellow players)

So I am really happy now, thanks and good luck to town for winning!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 01:09:18 PM
Yea we can't lynch and then cancel the nukes bc nukes are locked in after 24 hrs and night alone takes 24 hrs. There's no feasible way to get a flip from a lynch and be able to cancel (and FWIW, the rules state we can't do any game actions post-hammer either, so there's no hammering and then recalling a nuke in the twilight). We'll have to wait 2 days until the flips from these nukes happen.

If you are being targeted with a nuclear missile, you may post ##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death in the thread. This will cause you to commit suicide and leave the game immediately, unpreventable by any abilities.
not saying it's a good idea right now, but if the nukes don't get cancelled in time, then this is prob what needs to happen. gives us more time to discuss the post-flip gamestate
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
my post chain was supposed to be larger last night but the site died afterwards, i'd been doing a reread on yaersulf

maybe it came back up faster than i thought though because when i woke up just now the site worked on my phone but I was still getting the error page until i took a direct link to the game thread??? confused, anyway moving on

err i guess i don't need to finish that reread now though???? holy crap a lot just happened

##Unvote
##Vote Dormio


oh wait no

##Unvote

we want to at least see yaer's flip first just in case, lmao if we turboed dormio and yaer was pulling our leg, his claim looks legit tho

also yes, if any of the nuked people want to speed things up they can suicide as Daiya posted, otherwise of course they can feel free to keep chatting for a bit

Re:Bard, uhm, no, I'm not "doc fishing", I WANT TO NUKE YOU and if you're just gonna turn out to be the doc and make me have to immediately cancel my nuke and be unable to use it today then it'd be a waste of time, but the situation has obviously changed quite a lot since I went to sleep so that's temporarily on hold. Also, uh, the SK win con has nothing to do with nukes falling, it just requires everyone to be dead. Yes nukes are generally involved in situations that make that happen but when there's still 7 living un-nuked players I don't really see any reason not to keep firing away. (Well, apart from that there's currently 2 nukes midair, a cop claim, and a cop guilty, -those- are good reasons and further nukes should be waiting until some of these flips occur)

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 01:53:39 PM
Quote
maybe it came back up faster than i thought though because when i woke up just now the site worked on my phone but I was still getting the error page until i took a direct link to the game thread??? confused, anyway moving on
but I was still getting the error page on my pc*
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
i'm debating whether it's actually best to fire off even more nukes considering 2/3 scum are goners (either yaer or dormio are scum for sure) and snagging either the SK or final scum removes one of tonight's nightkills from the board which is a significant town boon
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:01:38 PM
If Nucleus doesn't flip SK and we don't get a doc proc off I dont think we can win the game unless we fulfill very specific conditions. It'll be a 4 player day with 2 town and 1 scum/sk each. Winning is possible still with nuke shennanigans probably?
Assuming Yaer is telling the truth, we can theoretically enter tomorrow with a confirmed town in Raik getting proc'ed by the doc but that still leaves 3 players to sort out, 2 of which aren't town.
Very very weird odds.

Also some pages are pulling up errors atm but alternate links into them work (like pg 22 was erroring for me but following my quote of Yaer's on the first post of page 23 brought me to page 22 just fine) it's as a result of the site maintenance I'd imagine and should resolve itself in the next 24 hrs.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 02:03:08 PM
4 player day?

We currently have 9 living players, 7 post-nuke, 6 post-lynch, and then... ah I see what you mean. Hmm.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 02:04:07 PM
do we actually pray the sk nightkills the final scum lmao

I do have to agree that it might be risky after all to continue nuking, then.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Yea i mean there's a handful of different scenarios that net a town win
It's just the odds on them are all sucky and risky lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 12, 2020, 02:07:51 PM
if Yaer's telling the truth then we got a conf scum and a conf town in exchange for losing the cop.

Couldn't raikaria still be North Korea?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
I guess technically yes.
But I must admit I'm not really banking on it being the case.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:13:38 PM
Actually we can probably PoE this?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 02:14:22 PM
I guess even the doc's saved target could be the SK, too.

I mean literally anyone could be the SK, third party should be able to pretty straightforwardly play the same as they would if they were town.

SK hunting is ??????.

Even Yaer could be the SK just claiming cop to try to get the nuke called off and avoid NK by doc mongering!

Cut:Maybe as far as the scum goes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 02:14:53 PM
also brb i have a haircut
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 02:25:01 PM
You can fix the site problems by clearing your cache, I asked Tom about it earlier.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:25:40 PM
The hard thing about trying to break this setup is all the numbers and configurations I'm coming up with rely on nukers nuking people but the nukers themselves are not unlikely to be anti-town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:37:10 PM
From my PoV and running with the idea that Raik is conf town that means one of Serela or Daiya is anti-town for sure. Out of the 4 players left that aren't me or Raik, 2 are claimed to be nukers and there's a Doc left in the mix, if the Doc is conf town that means it's between the last unclaimed player and both nukers.
But then we'd need the nukers to nuke each other, the Doc to claim and if the last unclaimed person is the final remaining scum then they just get lynched tomorrow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:39:22 PM
But then how do you convince anti-town players to advance a town wincon at the cost of their lives? lol
I guess if one of Serela/Daiya is town you should nuke the other, at worst you get venge nuked but then the rest of the game is solveable.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 02:39:59 PM
God I hope nucleus flips SK so that this all ends up being moot lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 03:05:36 PM
I do not have a missile silo set to offensive mode, because I do not trust any of you to be responsible with the nuclear button.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:38:33 PM
1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
5. waffles - ???? (imminent nuke)
6. Dormio - Offensive Silo (cop guilty?)
7. Yaersulf - Cop? (Imminent nuke)
8. Bardiche - ????? (not offens.silo)
9. Meow56 - ?????
10. Raikaria - ????? (not mafia)
11. Zoomy  - ?????

And Tsugumi it's definitely not safe to assume Raikaria isn't SK :U
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:44:31 PM
actually we can extrapolate further

1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
8. Bardiche - ????? (not offens.silo)
9. Meow56 - ?????
10. Raikaria - ????? (not mafia)
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

let's assume, for the moment, that waffles is not the SK, yaer flips cop, and dormio dies imminently through some means or another, and waffles surely isn't the doc because he'd have claimed so by now to avoid being nuked to death

bard/meow/rai basically has to be the doc unless someone is currently misplaying (scum should be able to PoE this pretty easily so may as well say it so we can work easier)

we do still have two nukes available

and the doc is almost certainly not the SK (if they really decided to go all in on ridiculous gambits, then uh, lmao ok hope that works out for you b/c it might)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 03:46:58 PM
raik also confirmed that the fighter's in the game, iirc. should be true regardless of his alignment
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 03:53:04 PM
i'm curious as to why you ended up with a silo though, serela. you claimed that you wanted to snag the sub to deprive the scumteam of it, but shouldn't there have been anything else worth taking after that?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:56:12 PM
1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
8. Bardiche - ????? (not offens.silo)
9. Meow56 - ?????
10. Raikaria - ????? (not mafia)
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

Confirmed Roles:Rolecop, Doctor (conf town)

maybe we just lynch dormio assuming things proceed as expected and see who dies overnight before we make further decisions. The SK or scum could both either be nk'd? Hmm. Can town even realistically win a 4p lylo if the scum and SK are both still alive though? It's pretty hard to tell where to go from here.

i'm curious as to why you ended up with a silo though, serela. you claimed that you wanted to snag the sub to deprive the scumteam of it, but shouldn't there have been anything else worth taking after that?
I wanted to kill people so my submission list was literally submarine -> missile silo LMAO

vig is a very satisfying role to have ok, and I personally think my scumdar is pretty good but most people would argue my cases are not amazingly convincing a lot of the time (it's been different the last few games because they've just been low hanging fruit cases b/c there's been lots of lurking)
also in the first defcon I fired on d3 and hit the scumteam member who had the least overall suspicion
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 03:58:26 PM
also waffles literally fired a nuke so I guess he's not a ?????
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:03:09 PM
I wonder how much farther we can narrow down the scum. It'd be worth firing a couple more nukes if we could be almost certain of hitting the mafia, and potentially hitting the SK otherwise.

1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
8. Bardiche - ????? (not offens.silo)
9. Meow56 - ?????
10. Raikaria - ????? (not mafia)
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

If the doc is Bard or Meow (although they probably shouldn't claim unless we do definitively decide it's worth firing more nukes today) then the list goes down to...

1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
9. Bard/Meow56 - ?????
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

And if one of the 5 people on this list was the doc target (this might sound like a stretch but is there someone in this game that practically everyone except dormio agreed was town HMMM I THINK THERE WAS)... we're down to Three Slots that surely must contain the last mafia member. And from my PoV at least there'd be only T W O slots left and we can still use Conventional Scumhunting after that so at least for me it'd sound PRETTY worth firing my nuke


Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Serela are you happy with me being nuked?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:11:55 PM
Well, no one's counterclaimed as cop which is in your favor, but you could still realistically be lying SK/scum trying to get the nuke called off them, unless someone can claim they had cop higher on their role submission list than what they got

scum could also realistically have stolen cop from town just so town doesn't have it; it's even mildly useful for scum because they can hunt for the SK with it, and combined with the utility of removing it from town it'd sound like a reasonable gambit to go for

so, basically, i can't find a good reason to CLEAR you

that being said, i wonder if it'd be better for our numbers game if the nuke was called off in exchange for me or daiya being able to easier nuke someone else?

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 12, 2020, 04:16:00 PM
Alright, I'm not giving Dormio any outs.

I fully believe in town to make my sacrifice mean something, keep an eye on Bard for me.

##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death

'Murica o7
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:28:57 PM
i was about to post that considering the somewhat dire situation we're in, it's probably best if we try to get waffles to call it off, me or daiya nukes dormio, and after dormio flips we can throw a nuke at yaer depending on the flip and pray for the best but if dormio was actually scum we should probably err on the side of clearing yaer

because even if waffles called off his nuke we still have -multiple- more nukes to use so it's not like we couldn't still easily nuke yaer after if necessary

but uh

it's a little late for that now ;_;
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 04:32:24 PM
mmmmmmmmm

i guess it's a pretty good scum gambit still so this is fine...? yaer gets nuked, tries to get it called off by claiming cop (which one of the scum could realistically be, making it safe), claims his scumbuddy so whichever of them ends up getting killed first the other is cleared, and the doc excuses why they don't get nightkilled
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 05:25:01 PM
I have returned.

Wow things escalated quickly.

I wonder how much farther we can narrow down the scum. It'd be worth firing a couple more nukes if we could be almost certain of hitting the mafia, and potentially hitting the SK otherwise.

1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
8. Bardiche - ????? (not offens.silo)
9. Meow56 - ?????
10. Raikaria - ????? (not mafia)
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

If the doc is Bard or Meow (although they probably shouldn't claim unless we do definitively decide it's worth firing more nukes today) then the list goes down to...

1. Serela - Offensive Silo
2. Daiya - Submarine
9. Bard/Meow56 - ?????
11. Zoomy  - ????? (not doc)

And if one of the 5 people on this list was the doc target (this might sound like a stretch but is there someone in this game that practically everyone except dormio agreed was town HMMM I THINK THERE WAS)... we're down to Three Slots that surely must contain the last mafia member. And from my PoV at least there'd be only T W O slots left and we can still use Conventional Scumhunting after that so at least for me it'd sound PRETTY worth firing my nuke

I am amazed that the wafflemaster is doing so well. Although I'm not sure where I vanished on these lists since while I have a Not Russia I'm not clear of being NK.

Although I'm not NK.

Also it seems Dormio is scum and we're lynching him but I seriously don't know the votals right now and don't want to hammer, especially with Yaer self-confirming his role. I'd rather wait for the flip to 100% hammer. Just to be 100% safe.

I guess this brings up the question of who are Dormio's likely scumbuddies. Looking at the Zeep wagon and 1v1 might be a pretty good idea.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 05:35:25 PM
Literally anyone except probably the doc can absolutely be North Korea, so I was just seeing how far we can narrow down who the last -mafia- would be.

And, in an ideal world, it goes down to 3 people, at least two of which possess a nuke.

And yeah, deep analysis would be cool but I do want some actual flips before i bother looking into it -that- hard.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 06:03:21 PM
there is the fact that the sk killed beru. honestly wouldn't be surprised if it really is nucleus
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1



Yaersulf, American Espionage has committed suicide.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 06:13:20 PM
there is the fact that the sk killed beru. honestly wouldn't be surprised if it really is nucleus
tbh i've been thinking that too but there's already an incoming nuke so that'll solve itself soon enough
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 06:13:40 PM
Requesting votecount
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 06:14:04 PM
also dormio is basically confirmed scum, so, at this point we're just waiting on waffles' flip and figuring out exactly how we want to use the rest of our nukes in this rather precarious gamestate
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 12, 2020, 06:15:26 PM
oh right, and analyzing dormio/votecounts... d1 might be interesting to look at too since we have -two- flipped scum but beru still barely existed and d1 wasn't very contested zzzzzz

i'm about to leave for work, i'll be back later
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 12, 2020, 06:18:28 PM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Quebec

Dormio (2) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela
Zoomy Tsugumi (1) - Dormio, Dormio
Bardiche (0) - Serela
NucleusWaffles (0) -
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio

Not Voting (5) -  meow56, Daiya, Raikaria, Bardiche, Serela

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
☢NucleusWaffles☢ - [ Expired ]
☢Yaersulf☢ - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 07:53:53 PM
also dormio is basically confirmed scum, so, at this point we're just waiting on waffles' flip and figuring out exactly how we want to use the rest of our nukes in this rather precarious gamestate

He *is* confirmed scum, unless Yaersulf is intentionally playing against Town wincon.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:19:12 PM
Ah strawberries, I vigged the cop and the person nuking me is scum.

This is a terrible mistake. Raikaria, as the confirmed town I will just sheep you until I inevitably dies, consider me a backdrop doublevoter and I will now silence myself completely because of the ambiguity surrounding my status.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:22:06 PM
nzjiz zfvnu fmwhm oqmor vrnvj yinjd tqkez nqkgu xxnxu uutxz nmhio uuewm mezbq saakb jnzhv jrqnw fgpfw nkrdq xxkwo mxngi skuwd qudyr pighm knzbb yrqgb fwghd pomuz zrbqw fpbq
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:23:48 PM
Basically, what I am saying is because of the fact we have a very good cop clear (on Raikaria, very experienced town player) and the fact I am involved in a scum gambit and only I myself know with full certainty I am just going to flip missle silo, I will delegate responsibility of my life to Raikaria now.

If Raikaria orders me to suicide I will do so, but I don't entirely want to townclear Serela yet, the ED1 beru -> Abu shift was clearly scumsided, and the ED2 zwerdijib VS Yaersulf scuffle clearly meritted more attention.

I also think the SK is Bard, Bard hates lurkers with a passion and actively punishes bad play as a big meta tell, if the vote goes there I will be really happy.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:25:28 PM
zzzwa pmphe tbbdb cnaid lgbpv fbxip hivr
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:28:10 PM
mlxcl cczto cxvbn ywebk hdbyp itfpa excqw fikcl dfioz azquu zxhxz meubs mlrhw shvks mdtkw filcf bgnmf vvbgz vr
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
nzjte zivnu fmwhm oqmor vmjuh xspfh hxxbk jebil qqibv vtcxo fkjep qqeve zschh syebj eqjru npffy rvqfi luhsq ckmjq bamma vdbny coikg scfhs efbrj ytxg
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:32:13 PM
nlitj motni vxghn dlmar euczh ynxns nqhyn ynjfb umxeo vxrrb lqjxg yrsbw jwbnt rgvmo xhzwn odyrs fojcp wsrdw tpwyd tanii vwvfx vund
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
how do i tell dormio to shut up in ciphertext
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:36:27 PM
hwldy gcbtz zkjin rz
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:37:20 PM
khvba drgxm burhb jwjzl lpnwg irzcr npsxw fmgse greiv boqub cqgfi smudz fbvbz vgnnq cwcpx mzurq rusrw bsaiq pnwoh zatnw
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:38:27 PM
pwozo orlms ttzww onfhv mjela bqxvw hoasq rffyi cwtvn hymut xkaxl tixpv cvvey rarmo hrpfq nolrr vdqrr alczt yhcoh fxpst adnif cirsp bdpkd upsrg zjkxj rjyjn xpddf ecqxp cmnnk ixins lnmlq dkrln dhfwf rbwjz tkqhs osobr yswcq hora
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Dormio, I am really sorry, but I am not the SK, the SK who killed your scumbuddy was probably a call between Serela/Bard.

Serela claiming offense silo (effectively VT claim) is really SK-y.

If you watch Jojo and I know you do, I am pulling the Diavolo v Risotto dialogue on you now.

Would it not be a terrible shame if you are killed and humiliated in front of the SK, who murdered your team? Rejuvenate us town and we will at least grant you an honorable and swift demise.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:40:45 PM
hwlqs wqqsu dpmyt dkweb dgjoc uzrik dgksw rmtbe gdrzb vxrjm wqkzn aqhxj qpvbh lnnzv xrtqx mzrrj jgjai myhcz vrmqd rmmjt cobwd hqngo cdkyd lcekb aduqu bdlps zjbdt phngw yehqa bavmj mmilw
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:42:19 PM
vngva efsqk ckzzh jbaro vpnxv gkwfs uximn wcwux ijneu fdzkk bitjp fqara zpchu motqb jewcj xwasz fwiif pdqqh wdkcd bgjpt bkzwe ljhqw ucsvy qgopu fjfdg gibpt lmtmm jtkkt btdnw bxxis oibem yfkoi xqrqh bfhnz xyuif ojltt qmgif ipzye xodfb uylrt ajafx kwghr melow nfoyd sjtis czass vnlda sxeis ltebh gyvnd wabzf pblaz jsqei vdmec jydum futry bmzym gzlzp gqlcl bvxhi ytmna
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:42:32 PM
Since you are basically kingmaker of my life, this is something very valuable for me to you.

Of course in the greater context of the game this is literally useless, but if you truly think I am the SK, nuking and offing me now means scum loses.

If you do not truly think I am the SK, I will push for a Serela/Bard lynch anyway with the same tenacity but flexibility when I pushed on a Yaersulf lynch, and what happens afterwards, god knows. 

Cancel the nuke Dormio, we can still win this.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:44:15 PM
zjxjv ftzty
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:46:53 PM
vledi nonnp sunva obmog hqwfj brnjd upnxe fhjhw keatx eofuk cpflt qhnse juznc xdrnr hcnzd zypww woypp nrraz owdtw xomjo hmapu cndzv zoawk yzrsb dbnjm ctyxe jxbdb vrzfk htutk isppu fhiut kruch brxza zjtij nsxun jshta uaphv dqxty anwtz jkxol soroo cboxj yxqne eiyng pdgxa wuqcg kmlkl lp
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:50:17 PM
I am not the SK, and nightkilling beru a full-on lurker is a hard bard SK-tell.

Barring that, I heavily sus Serela because of the 2:1 ratio of experienced to newbie scum, and the claim of a effective VT.

My life is in Raikaria's hands anyhow, but since Dormio is here I might as well as ask really nicely.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:50:33 PM
vngva zmfwd szmzn hlqlp qicnh jdgfs mhxbx zrhrf colxl alpcc lxntn lnpxm juhse mgoid dvjuc jb
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:51:18 PM
nzupl rsllz lulhb oziqg qpwwt dwgpv uqwqq lrnni rdrzb vxrzr fgojy ttxbi agugc sayrb jcbun jfqal jgukk kqczv acgxw msoka avabp psdyc nqcks ilwpm f
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:52:58 PM
Dormio, the best case scenario that will happen if both of us are alive is a clownfest with nukes flying and it might involve you becoming the scum kingmaker.

The worse case scenario is I die, you get lynched and we both lose influence in the game.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:53:32 PM
niool rnhnd phvjv qrozg dytwl shvrh hppby ydxyt xnifc qxfjr gzhro ktnsg ueubn jedib druud qb
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:54:32 PM
nvozs wfdxd cuegn ikmar yjorr ainjt knosq ovjrh cakxq wzeik qjpcm orijf ylfty zhbwo sjweu nfize faxfu axmqb mvqpb igxgs clrpn hlqma hlfxi flwbw bnxgq ahzpj pl
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:56:38 PM
vledi nohms pvfrj atesu miuql uhrfr pphyn wryce lnoge erfom ncogo diunz yfvga fewpn likaz gaexc muyxv ayngs cktgg isije hxrqw ciuvv hnlht kybng vx
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:56:55 PM
I presume Dormio's strategy is to cause a town burnout and bury information like the Serela meltdown did happen last time, but up against very experienced players including Bardiche, Raikaria this is not a very good tactic because their strong big hands will likely guide us all out of this mess.

And if they don't, they are not playing up to caliber then.

Daiya, despite having few words is also a quick skimmer, so really Dormio, let's just talk.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:57:13 PM
ywnwy qdcfd vpvgo jwzrp pvquk gdhjj dywfp jdwsb juncd esrhc rsmhj wfhye obt
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
nyyts qrjsz vsbzf ufyok qjikv kbrfs tgkxx lvvca ratmv cgaoa bikzl lhlht noprh i
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 09:58:09 PM
Why the fire truck would an SK!Bard waste his NK on a slot that's likely to be modkilled due to lack of replacements?

God. Dormio speaks in tongues and Waffles is still nuts.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:58:53 PM
Dormio is trying to get town to waste a lynch on him, this is the best case scenario for scum to possibly win.

Resist the temptation and just think of it as a post restriction.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 09:59:52 PM
1: Dormio; please stop spamming. I know you're confirmed scum but you're kind of just being an ass. Don't be an ass.

2: Don't suicide Nucleus. Seeing as Dormio nuked you; and he is Confirmed Mafia; that makes you Confirmed Not-Mafia. It dosen't rule out North Korea, but you should make use of the time you have to post useful things, like thoughts on other players, who you think could be North Korea and the remaining Russian, ect, ect.

And if we decide to end the day early; you're another vote to help hammer. Dormio's lynch is a foregone conclusion after all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 09:59:57 PM
Thanks god Bardiche is actually here, at this point I would prefer SK/Scum!Bard that speaks plain English that whatever Dormio is spewing.

Here's my gift.

##Vote Bardiche
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:00:40 PM
Oh yeah there's the option to not murder Dormio today and just nuke him.

Assumeing town *has* any nukes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:01:21 PM
ywnth qnpfp mbrbm kferu hpuld zrdfw tqnto ifbla xmgoo pjcvf hkslf dgxoz fvmbs fgfdr hcdzd srqal
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 10:01:33 PM
Dormio needs to cut that strawberries out, because he knows it's lame and No Fun is Allowed.jpeg


Cut by a "gift."


I just don't even. I'm going to pretend Waffles's flipped already because every time I just bury my head in my palms and wonder why.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 10:01:50 PM
Serela should do so, then, seeing that Serela does have a nuke.

Otherwise Serela is the final scum, or is the SK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:01:59 PM
I would like to request that Serela specifically nukes Dorm tbh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:02:04 PM
Side note: Any remaining town Launchers [aside from Waffles] should 100% nuke Dormio.

Also Dormio I'm actually going to start reporting your posts as spam if you don't stop. Seriously. You're breaking forum rules.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:02:29 PM
ywnly
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:03:04 PM
I literally outed the final scum in thread for you and you guys just threaten to report me, wow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 10:03:44 PM
Dormio I am the SK stop and help me please.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:04:29 PM
zjxjq wbfsr opwyd
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
you can make it up to us by outing the final scum in plaintext uwu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 12, 2020, 10:05:11 PM
idm doing it either. it's up to raik

he's prob gonna wait out the nuke though
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:05:37 PM
qiyma yrytx pgbxc ykgla fqukk bayol dodsv unkll cxuxq pycym bz
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 10:05:59 PM
I am now on my knees begging for my life, anything to stop that nuke.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 12, 2020, 10:06:31 PM
Okay, I am not actually the SK, so I will just shut up and wait for Raikaria to cast a decision and town to decide.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:07:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/blvNgvM.png)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:08:05 PM
Yea dormio ain't gonna change it nucleus no need to keep begging.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
I literally outed the final scum in thread for you and you guys just threaten to report me, wow.

1: Did that really take that many spamposts to achieve that?

2: Assuming we can decipher it

3: Assuming we can trust confirmed scum even if we do decipher it

4: If you did actually do that it's against wincon anyway <.<

idm doing it either. it's up to raik

he's prob gonna wait out the nuke though

Nukeing Dormio frees up today's lynch and lets us try and find the final scum. If you are a Town-Aligned Silo you should nuke Dormio. He is literally confirmed scum.

Also Nucleus; who would Dormio cancel a nuke on not-mafia? It furthers his faction's wincon and he has nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:09:10 PM
hsocs wbpxl wjfgf ukjlb flxhv zzoyo lxdmn zcsbr eronc bqvcu aljfq xlupm c
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:09:44 PM
idm doing it either. it's up to raik

he's prob gonna wait out the nuke though
if he waits it out so be it
I think you should keep your nuke for now though
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:10:22 PM
1: Did that really take that many spamposts to achieve that?
mtqvz adpfk swfzd jbefg vdbfz btdns zprfv xybib yfcgu qglbz sktwu oelsf ylpur bpxqg sjure
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
##I wish to die a painful radioactive death
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:11:57 PM
Also people can we please stop saying I'm Confirmed Town.

I am Confirmed Not Russia. I am not confirmed town. I have not been confirmed as not North Korea.

Granted, I am actually Town, but please, don't treat that as fact without evidence.

##I wish to die a painful radioactive death

You can't do that until you've been nuked Dormio.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:12:21 PM
vngva rhvnu fmwhf aweqd fiutq dsxic jhxbd fwltd uudhc v
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
if he waits it out so be it
I think you should keep your nuke for now though

What benefit is there to not Nuking Dormio? I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:13:11 PM
Raik do you think there is any merit in getting a scum nuke to kill dormio instead of using a town nuke?
At worst, someone who doesn't want to nuke Dormio at this point is guaranteeing that they're scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:13:41 PM
You can't do that until you've been nuked Dormio.
nffli vdfos whjgp aowlw vgcql bc
If you are being targeted with a nuclear missile, you may post ##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death in the thread. This will cause you to commit suicide and leave the game immediately, unpreventable by any abilities.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:13:53 PM
That's my gameplan, and that's why I want Serela to do it instead of Daiya, I never said don't nuke Dormio at all, just get Serela to do it instead
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:20:07 PM
Or we just get Serela and Daiya to nuke each other and then we lynch Dormio as planned
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:22:11 PM
tl;dr what im saying is im pretty confident with the idea that killing in the pool of Serela/Daiya/Bard wins us the game. Though I have higher suspicions of Serela as the last scum buddy so idk I'd rather get Serela to use the nuke.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:22:34 PM
Or we just get Serela and Daiya to nuke each other and then we lynch Dormio as planned

I mean that is an idea.

Where does Meow place into all this? And Bardiche?

I mean I know you're not-red, and that I'm town.

I also guess we should also wait for Nucleus to flip; although I'd kinda like a thoughtdump from him before he suicides.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:22:37 PM
iwnny whlfo wylut zbifz euupv hqjpw nodwn kguws
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:24:20 PM
I'm pretty confident in a meow townread personally, but he's not guaranteed unless he's the doc. It's just something I'm willing to bet on.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:26:15 PM
qiypl rcyzd ogvrh ubobk izhkb dnqim abclv rmcbx doroc bsmwr bqsxl waawx mhgvy hrgnn eknwx bzize fiyof exrms vmowf mnmmg vwjoy leolv bndfv xtbpm nsagq lejtt umaws hgrhd cstqk ifri
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:26:19 PM
Again from my POV and clearing you as town too, Daiya/Serela has to hold at least one anti-town member anyway. And if that doesn't win the game we can just lynch Bard the next day.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:27:21 PM
Cops are a blight upon mafia that shouldn't exist.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 12, 2020, 10:28:03 PM
Also it's almost 11:30pm and I have work tomorrow, so I'll post again in the morning.

Let's not throw anymore nukes until Nucleus has died so we know if Dormio nuked the SK or not. Nucleus; I'd like you to thoughtdump before you die if you can. Give us what you think of everyone. If Zoomy wants something do that too. I am 99% sure he is town and that remaining 1% is him being N.Korea but I doubt it.

After that you can suicide if you want to. Or you can hang around. Up to you really. Whatever you think is better for town.

I'm pretty confident in a meow townread personally, but he's not guaranteed unless he's the doc. It's just something I'm willing to bet on.

I lean town on meow but its far from a hardread.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:28:49 PM
Like there's a reason why I say that I hate cops (in the context of mafia) whenever it is brought up.

vledi nnkbt wjlhb uoayl ezxrr yxbja cqwpn ugxph fvnxj
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:29:45 PM
Like there's a reason why I say that I hate cops (in the context of mafia) whenever it is brought up.

vledi nnkbt wjlhb uoayl ezxrr yxbja cqwpn ugxph fvnxj
clearly the solution is to play a bit worse so you're less likely to be copped for being unreadable, duh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:30:24 PM
I, too, love being punished for being competent.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:31:25 PM
pwozo orlte bbjkd cdemg jzmyv yatpd igryg nucff goyge vykqu jicjx jqwqs wspqe bowzz ci
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 12, 2020, 10:33:26 PM
So yeah the plan I outlined of nuking/lynching the entire pool of Serela/Daiya/Dormio is my preferred plan. I feel good about clearing Raik and clearing Meow, and Bard's capable of dying tomorrow if the game doesn't end today after the lynch.

The only problem with this plan is that at least one of the nukes would be anti-town so how do you get them to advance town wincon lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 12, 2020, 10:34:47 PM
hwltq lrwby wtveh bwxqr vvadl rlwrl honto ofaax lzibs wdfwz yjkxz vhkpb lfday yervz ivcyl jouil xbzt
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 10:55:33 PM
Being copped does suck

but please

cut the spam

or at least teach me how to decipher it so it doesn't look like random head-to-keyboard smashing
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 10:56:57 PM
##Nuke: Dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 12, 2020, 11:00:49 PM
That does, sadly, do nothing, but I now wish it did.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:12:16 AM
I didn't immediately nuke dormio because we do need to kinda think things through more carefully here.

I can nuke dormio here, and then let's say we mislynch here and two townies get nk'd (potentially ideal situation for the SK, although mafia would probably wish to nk the SK but they're kinda playing roulette). Now we're in 3p lylo with 1v1v1 and probably zero town controlled nukes?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 12:13:31 AM
zjxjb qfkwq xhlhb irrqp avykf rbnol liwtk tlhbr cswmf mlkuk cpjdf mfkxt mtnhf qcmvo
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:17:47 AM
I guess having a doc helps.

But only sort of.

1v1v1 with a town controlled nuke is still hilariously awkward to try to win, because you have to get an anti-town to nuke the other anti-town. If that's even physically possible! Nuking Dormio suggests we're either no-lynching or straight up praying to the doc to please save someone or the sk/mafia target the same person or dear lord it's all over.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 12:24:54 AM
Nuking Dormio is a pretty safe bet here anyway, at worst it's no different to continuing on how we would've done anyway if we instead just lynched him (because if we no lynch today we advance with the same numbers). At best it gives us an opportunity to actually have a meaningful lynch today or even choose an extra nuke target.

In fact I think the game is basically unwinnable for town unless we doc proc if we don't do at least one extra kill today that has to hit an anti-town player
But if we narrow the pool down to 3 players like I've been doing, then we just need to fire off 2 nukes in the pool and if the game isn't won we lynch the last.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:25:46 AM
anyway I'm still at work, when i'm home i'd like to look at votecounts with flips in mind
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:28:40 AM
why didn't it tell me I was cut

And yeah, we could potentially aim to just nuke nuke nuke and end the game today, it's just, I want to make sure we've evaluated what we're doing along those lines BEFORE we start firing nukes we can't take back

and I don't know that I trust you guys to no-lynch after I nuke dormio if that ends up having been the smartest option >:U
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 12:29:22 AM
If we only kill one scum member today and don't kill the SK we basically rely on Doc or lose
If we can eliminate an entire faction today, with a reduced night kill count we end up with 1 casualty of leeway, aka the number of nukes we can set off safely today would be 2.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:36:46 AM
hmmm

so fire off me AND daiya's nukes, and then lynch someone, and out of the nuke+lynch after Dorms, we pray that we've hit another scum

so actually I have a really wild idea, and hear me out here

what if we fire both me and daiya's nukes looking for the other scum (and maybe randomly hitting the sk) and save the lynch for usage on Dormio if we successfully hit the third scum, and otherwise keep fishing for the SK with the lynch

because is killing dormio actually beneficial if we don't kill the last scum today? like, i know it sounds weird, but i think it might be legit better
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:38:26 AM
wait no that's stupid we get endgamed if 2 scum are alive LMAO no nevermind

I was exclusively thinking of number of deaths overnight
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 12:38:41 AM
If that's your gameplan then you should nuke each other and we lynch Dormio imo.

Also I think it should go without saying but anyone cancelling a nuke in this plan is admitting to being scum and is free pickings for the alternate anti-town faction for a NK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:45:22 AM
that's a cool plan and all but right now i'd rather nuke bard over daiya no offense

then again daiya -is- a sub which is a prime sk pick and he didn't claim it early when we talked about it?

but he DID claim it in lylo. hmm. I wonder if the SK would still try to do that for brownie points over just using it indiscriminately. I guess there's claiming to have to worry about if massclaim happened...

also uh it'd be kind of helpful to town By A Lot to have some nukes still alive in lylo maybe if that ends up occurring
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:47:34 AM
like, 3p lylo with only scum or sk faction alive: one person gets nuked, and you get to lynch the other! town's win chance straight up doubles
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:48:43 AM
wait crud does that actually turn into a situation where the SK can win by global death if he's the one being nuked

crap.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 12:48:58 AM
Yeah but what if the last nuke is anti-town lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 12:49:57 AM
Would still need a conf town to guarantee win in that situ
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:56:44 AM
i mean you can still lynch the nuker lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 12:58:03 AM
as long as it's 2 town and 1 non-town instead of 1v1v1 you're actually way better off with an anti-town who has a nuke than otherwise
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 01:02:09 AM
...oh right. unless it's the sk. then you have to lynch the SK or else. or nuke, and wait around for the nuke to land.

I guess you could try to time the nuke landing to occur almost simultaneously with lynch...?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 01:07:58 AM
nyyts qrjtk cvyrj dbmgd gcufu bnryi tbpwl jonws fruyx agrfb ucilo nhnwz mxpti bbtnp mdplq vutxd vdkpz rddmv ghdxv aexca ojz
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 13, 2020, 01:15:42 AM
i actually asked everyone if they wanted me to claim like, twice. but they all ignored it so i figured that i might as well keep it to myself till def 1. general consensus regarding claims seemed to be "don't progress the scum poe this early".
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 01:18:26 AM
that's fair. overall massclaim was "no" but me and I think MAYBE rai were advocating for submarine claiming as an exception? idk
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 13, 2020, 01:31:59 AM
just you, i think. wasn't gonna claim based on one person's suggestion, especially if i didn't have much of a reason to trust their slot
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 01:38:12 AM
also, i don't know what a bunch of the unclaimed players are, but if 1~2 more people have nukes we should probably just aim to end the game today
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 01:44:52 AM
wait no that's not right because we can take the game down to 1 player with a nuke remaining in 3p lylo zzz

sorry i have a bad headache and i'm tired at work waiting for my replacement to arrive, i should probably stop posting until i get home and can look at votecounts with full attention
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 13, 2020, 02:59:36 AM
So Serela is anti-town


##Unvote
##Vote Serela
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 03:01:43 AM
???????????

why, because i'm not immediately blowing one of our nukes when we have T O N S of time left, in favor of instead trying to work out the best way to maximize town's win chance??
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 13, 2020, 03:10:08 AM
I think I might be blinded a bit here because the pressure's on me. Well, I am going off after 24 hours so forgive me please.

The point is, scum/SK is coordinating and playing a very good tonal game.

Town should not panic, town must not panic, town is not supposed to panic.
Our cop caught a scum red-handed, our doc prevented a NK, what we have is a highly competent power role duo in town.

Pushing for further massclaim is uncessary.

Today's lynch should be Dormio, I know everything I said before. But I was trying to get Dormio to nuke cancel.

Do not rolespec, the uncertainty is clearly doing us favours. The SK does not want to accidentally hit the last scum. The scum does not want to accidentally hit the last SK.

If we have problems with the information presented, similarly the scum must be too, relax, think, and trust each other to win.

The SK is not at an informational advantage, the SK is a paranoid and helpless soul likely ridden with guilt or sadistic joy over the game state.

They won't be very soon, because we will win and they will lose.

##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death

Remember, we must not make the same mistake, we have a confirmed scum, we vote the confirmed scum, we lynch the confirmed scum. Greed makes players turn back so, so many times to the bonfire.

Vote Dormio, vote Dormio, vote Dormio.

Then use your heads and think out the rest. But always remember to trust, town has a majority, town has a majority, town has a motherfire trucking majority with hypercompetent PRs, do not reveal our hand.

All hail

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 03:17:03 AM
Beru (4) - Yaersulf, Zoomy Tsugumi, Serela, Zwerdjib, Raikaria
[b]zwerdjib (2) -[/b] Dormio, Abu
Serela (2) - Bardiche, Daiya
Raikaria (1) - Zoomy Tsugumi
Abu (1) - Yaersulf
Yaersulf (1) - NucleusWaffles
meow56 (1) - beru

Yaersulf hopped off first to be the first vote on Abu, Zoomy hopped off second onto Rai riiight before Raikaria voted Beru, and finally Zoomy->Zwerd->Beru->Daiya->Serela->Meow moved to vote abu

not sure d2 votecounts are interesting because it was just town/town wagons in the end and there wasn't really anything in the way of other significant wagons d2 other than yaer and zwerd
The scum does not want to accidentally hit the last SK.
scum is very very likely to lose if the SK doesn't die by the end of tonight lmao
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 03:17:11 AM
nzspl ffsqk duygj lfxix vmhux x
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 13, 2020, 03:17:34 AM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1



NucleusWaffles, American Missile Silo has committed suicide.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 03:20:16 AM
xzfam fdppu aekjv vkxcp vptmk v
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 13, 2020, 03:26:58 AM
☢ Russian Leaks ☢
DEFCON 1

Quote
##Kill: Self

Quote
ehhrt hixho
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 03:39:06 AM
i'm ridiculously out of sorts right now because i've been thinking about numbers too much and my head is KILLING me

so I'm going to sleep on this and see how i feel about everything in the morning, there's still an enormous amount of time until deadline
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 03:47:45 AM
ujgas gpphy ovngh eq
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NuclearWafflesAlt on June 13, 2020, 03:49:02 AM
Can I please get a link to the quicktopic sent to this alt? Thanks.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 13, 2020, 06:50:08 AM
OK; I'm back for a short while.

Time to solve this.

Step 1: At this point I think a semi-massclaim is in order. Knowing what resources are around would be quite useful. Also counter-claims and such. By semi-massclaim I mean those who haven't been cleared of being the final scum. In other words, I'm not claiming, at least until last. From earlier events I'm confirmed to be Not Red; so my claim is probably the least useful anyway.

2: From here we can work out who is likly scum, who's lying, and such. We can also use any nukes/nuke claims we have left.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 13, 2020, 06:51:05 AM
Also if we're going to nuke Dormio we should do so before he'd get to submit any night actions, just in case we also lynch the last mafia [so no nightkill] or he's a power role.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 11:08:05 AM
Also if we're going to nuke Dormio we should do so before he'd get to submit any night actions, just in case we also lynch the last mafia [so no nightkill] or he's a power role.
Dormio nuked someone he's a silo

Dead scumteam can't nk people

And I feel achier than before I went to bed and am now wondering how to get tested for covid fire truck

Not sure how I feel about massclaim, the doc is still pretty valuable and the sub that would normally want to lie as antitown is already claimed
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 13, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Daiya - Submarine. Town from my pov, but likely anti-town

Serela - Offensive silo, very likely anti-town

Bard - Not offensive Silo. He did type the magic words in the thread, so he isn't lying

Meow - Beru death, somewhat likely to be sk

Raikaria - Confirmed not-scum. Not fighter

Tsugumi - ???

Dormio - Confirmed Scum. Offensive Silo

Confirmed Roles: Fighter (Rc), Battleship (Doc)

Dead Roles: Espionage (Cop), Aircraft Carrier (Rb), Airbase (Bp)

There has to be at least one more silo in the game. Bard could still be a defensive silo I guess, but that's not confirmed.

With both Beru and Dormio having nukes, it's a reasonable assumption that the last scum has one too. So atp, I think the semi-massclaim might be our best option. We'll have two confirmed townies with the fighter and battleship (doc target is not-scum, but sk is possible), and as raikaria said we can punish fakeclaims pretty easily. Not to mention that the fighter has the chance of catching a fakeclaim. If we didn't manage to kill either nk or scum with that much info, then I'd be surprised.

I also want Serela to nuke Dormio. From my pov, he has the highest chance of being nk or scum, leaning scum. Having his nuke out of play is good for us and opens up our lynch. If we need another kill, then I'm willing to comply with Raik and whoever we can clear based on consensus. I know full well that defecting is gonna get me killed and harm our wincon, so please trust me on this.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 13, 2020, 01:54:32 PM
Now that we're just playing "solve the setup", my motivation is like, mega low.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 13, 2020, 01:57:31 PM
Honestly at this point someone should just get on with it and nuke Dormio already, then we can use the lynch for information. If we lynch Dormio, it's an obvious one, you can't analyse that train. If we nuke Dormio and push another lynch, you can do wagon analysis and be better poised tomorrow to do what needs to be done.

I want to go ahead and vote Serela again but I should probably re-read the thread and do a review of all my opinions to see if the current revelations re: Dormio, Nucleus, etc, have yielded any new info.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 13, 2020, 02:01:34 PM
Also Daiya, submarine is heavily anti-town favoured so claiming it is a pretty pro-town move. Scum/SK would've just launched the nuke out of the dark, which I think is far more optimal than claiming so as far as I'm concerned, scum's among

Serela/Meow/Zoomy

with Raikaria added if you want to look for SK (I don't, we can lynch SK after we deal with scum)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 03:05:23 PM
When was fighter confirmed to be in the game btw?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 13, 2020, 03:06:50 PM
I also want Serela to nuke Dormio. From my pov, he has the highest chance of being nk or scum, leaning scum. Having his nuke out of play is good for us and opens up our lynch. If we need another kill, then I'm willing to comply with Raik and whoever we can clear based on consensus. I know full well that defecting is gonna get me killed and harm our wincon, so please trust me on this.
This is very much how I'm feeling too btw.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 3)
Post by: meow56 on June 13, 2020, 03:13:33 PM
Also; it's worth mentioning anyone who didn't get their first choice can confirm the existence of a role in the game. I can confirm that Fighter is in the game, as I missed out on this role myself.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 03:16:17 PM
Fighter was confirmed by Rai having it as their first pick iirc but why is it confirmed town ???

Honestly I'm still not convinced we're going in the right direction here but everyone else is arguing otherwise and I don't want the lynch to get wasted on me just because I didn't nuke Dormio faster. We still have Daiyas nuke and even if he's SK he knows to obey the thread using it today.

##Nuke:Dormio
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 13, 2020, 03:32:07 PM
because i can't see nk and especially the last scum giving up the utility of a silo, at this point. it can keep them alive in a pinch or progress their wincon if necessary. and with the two members of the scumteam having silos, i think the last member should have one as well. ergo, the fighter and battleship are most likely town. i suppose there's arguments to be made that one of them could be nk, but i again can't see them picking either of those roles which hardly aid their wincon (one even acts directly against it) over the one that does
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 03:35:11 PM
Fighter is a dubious NK pick I agree but fighter seems like a pretty normal scum pick. The first time defcon ran, the scumteam actually chose zero nukes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 13, 2020, 04:03:31 PM
Also I can see scum wanting to know people's roles to, you know... find the power roles.

In fact, the fact Fighter hasn't claimed makes me fairly sure we have a Scum Fighter.

Also hi I'm back.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 13, 2020, 04:05:23 PM
Oh yeah I'm tossing up the pros and cons to me claiming; and the liklihood I die tonight either way.

I mean I'd rather survive personally but I think there's like a 90%+ chance I die to either the SK or Scum kill tonight anyway. Unless both think the other will kill me and neither hit me. There's also the fact the Doc can only block one shot so if both SK and Mafia hit me I'd die even through doc.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 04:26:11 PM
if mafia and sk both are still alive, the mafia probably wants to hit the SK tonight more than anything else b/c they're gonna be pretty liable to just get endgamed even if they 'survive' the conventional part of the game

of course the sk could be nearly anyone so that might not change the situation a whole lot idk

sk would probably want to hit rai presuming it's not them, but, the doc exists, so, it wouldn't be a safe call either? the night is gonna be weird.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
People that don't really exist:
Daiya - For what it's worth, I think the few actual content posts they've made are actually okay, so I'm not really looking too hard here unless something egregious happens to jump out at me.
beru - Consists of pretty much entirely non-content posts. Is also replacing out so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bardiche - Similar to Daiya, the few posts he has don't really bother me so it's a slot that is there.
Yaersulf - Doesn't exist outside of just poking and prodding at a few people and then disappearing. If we were consolidating on a lurker lynch, this is the one that I'd go for.
Meow56 - Doesn't exist.

People that do exist:
Dormio - This is me.
zwerdjib - This is scum.
NuclearWaffles - This is probably the SK.
Serela - Flailing around in typical Serela fashion, his D1 posts looked pretty bad. D2 looks like he's actually putting effort into the game but this is a slot that I'm keeping my eye on.
raikaria - I was going to say that this one seems sane, but Zoomy Tsugumi brings up a good point about this slot in their latest post. This is another slot to keep an eye on, I suppose.
Zoomy Tsugumi - This one seems sane.
dorm's general reads post, but i'm not sure how helpful it is because zwerd is the only scumread here and everyone else is 'keeping eye on' or 'seems ok i guess' aka everyone's been lumped into very middle-of-the-road categories that can easily swing either way
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 13, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1


(https://i.imgur.com/IyKnr4B.png)

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility QZ-192 , currently commanded by Serela.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory . . .
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to Dormio.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate on Saturday, June 15, 11:16:17 EDT

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 13, 2020, 05:23:04 PM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Romeo

Dormio (1) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela
Zoomy Tsugumi (1) - Dormio, Dormio
Bardiche (0) - Serela
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
meow56 (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio

Not Voting (5) -  meow56, Daiya, Raikaria, Bardiche, Serela

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
☢NucleusWaffles☢ - [ Expired ]
☢Dormio☢ - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 08:03:59 PM
Ok I'm out of my bed now because I had to go to work. I still feel terrible but w/e let's play mafia instead of working ~

Zoomy I think can be soft cleared between being easily the townest looking player and Dormio going hardcore on them D3. At least, I can't fathom voting for them over other options. And Rai literally got copped as not scum.

So that leaves me, Meow, Bard, and Daiya. I have some rereading to do, better get off my phone and onto the work computer zzzz
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 13, 2020, 09:18:42 PM
Ok I'm out of my bed now because I had to go to work. I still feel terrible but w/e let's play mafia instead of working ~

Zoomy I think can be soft cleared between being easily the townest looking player and Dormio going hardcore on them D3. At least, I can't fathom voting for them over other options. And Rai literally got copped as not scum.

So that leaves me, Meow, Bard, and Daiya. I have some rereading to do, better get off my phone and onto the work computer zzzz

Honestly; out of these three; I'd actually lean towards Bard being the last scum [He seems to have almost thrown in the towel with his stance; while Daiya seems to be trying to help and Meow is about as useful as ever]

It is worth noting nothing clears anyone of being Korea however.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 13, 2020, 09:51:55 PM
##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 13, 2020, 09:55:22 PM
Work:actually really busy whoops

OK

Meow only has ~17 posts in the game and most of them are pretty short so let's start there. TBH this is the only meaningful one to go off
Okay, I ISO'd everyone and pulled together a read list. Sorry for wall.

Serela - Seems very sure that there are 4+ town vigs, which doesn't sound right. You'd think town would end up favoring power roles to nukes... Also giving me a lot of newbie cred, though once again under the assumption that we can just nuke me in the end. Though also seems to think nuking me would be a coin toss. Made a case against Bardiche, also willing to lynch zwerdjib. Overall leaning scum.
Daiya - Prodded people d1, gave lots of reads as well. Then disappeared d2. Leaning town, but would like them to get back to the game at some point. Slowly moving down as they've yet to appear.
Beru - Replacing out.
zwerdjib - Seemed to give up on D1, but is back with a vengeance or somesuch. Advocated DEFCON3 massclaim and got lots of flak for it. Getting tunneled on by Dormio. Still think they're town; if they've happened to find the drive to go the distance all the better.
NucleusWaffles - Opens by posting a "breaking" strategy that doesn't really work out, gets lots of flak for it. Thinks Yaersulf is scummy for voteparking, then townie, then scummy again. Has kinda disappeared toDay. I'll place them slightly north of neutral.
Dormio - Very much tunneling on zwerdjib. Gave opinions of others but very limited. Would like to hear more (as raikaria has alluded to). Scum lean.
Yaersulf - I stand by what I said earlier, I feel like Yaersulf should be more confident. The Big Post™ is a little weird, given their posting habits. See also their last game, where they basically gave up re: getting lynched.
Bardiche - Going to wait until they post more before making a decision. Though this wait has been taking a while...
raikaria - Doesn't have a lot of time, but makes the most of what they do have. I like that they've read me enough to actually give a read instead of just saying "lurker". Town.
Zoomy Tsugumi - Is trying to figure this game out, poking people and, like, actually playing the game. Is trying to reinvigorate the town. Town.

Zoomy Tsugumi Town
zwerdjib
raikaria
Daiya Town Lean
NucleusWaffles Neutral
Beru
Bardiche
Dormio Scum Lean
Serela
Yaersulf Scum

zwerdjib: You missed Daiya in your read list, so what do you think of them?
Yaersulf: If we mislynched zwerdjib, worst-case leaves us at 4:3:1 tomorrow. At this point I highly doubt any town would lay down and die in the face of a mislynch.
Hopefully Daiya, Bardiche, NucleusWaffles, maybe even Dormio get in here and post something.
At face value this is actually a pretty good post, but there's also extremely little of anything else for them this game. They've not really had a single comment today other than quoting raikaria's fighter thing, either. Since they're new that's not -super- surprising and I'd err on caution by saying the good post suggests not mafia but if we don't find scum elsewhere later they definitely need to be revisited

posting this now in case work livens up again while i try to do other rereads
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 13, 2020, 11:13:04 PM
Dormio, Russian Missile Silo has taken the easy way out.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2020, 01:19:29 AM
head:murdering me harder

sobs

i really like daiya's d1 which i've said before

but then he disappeared for nearly 4 days

he didn't -just- jump on zwerd when he came back at least; he made a bit of novel content against raikaria at least, but he didn't talk about anyone else until... actually never until saying he thinks i'm scummy at the moment for... being a missile silo because 2 scums were silos so the third must be as well?

from what i understand people are just clearing daiya for admitting on d3 that he's a sub. are the sheer brownie points he's gained from doing so not enough motivation in of itself? nukes are flying, he just missed nearly the entirety of d2 which doesn't make him look good, the player pool is about to significantly shrink and pressure's gonna be on, etc. i don't think it's unreasonable that he claimed as a gambit

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 14, 2020, 06:45:50 AM
You know what would be useful; if Bard/Meow actually posted some things considering they're two of the three prime suspects at this point.

Especially given neither player has actually done too much making it quite difficult to dig into them. I mean it could be that they're SK and the remaining scum so that's why they're not doing much but I'd like to go a bit further than 'lynch lurkers'.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
Quote
[He seems to have almost thrown in the towel with his stance;

More that I enjoy the "scumhunt" portion of the game, and less the "Let's work out how we can win the game by playing the setup instead" portion. It somehow feels... lame? Like, it takes away "how well does everyone play" and replaces it with "Let's use all our role powers to solve the setup", which is somehow not exactly what I enjoy best about Mafiers.



Cut by Raik. Well.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 09:55:19 AM
Anyway, I think I've laid out enough that I'm suspicious of Serela. That hasn't changed.

Meow... is the easiest ISO ever. And also pretty interesting. If you read this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7980#msg7980), he's saying I'm sus because I "lurked more than he thought"...

That's for DEFCON 2. Prior to that, Meow has not made a single case, and hardly even put down a vote. In fact, this is his only vote (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7934#msg7934). And this (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8023#msg8023) is his second vote.

In the entire game.

THE ENTIRE GAME. The second vote is also interesting because he soft defends Dormio. We get two reads from him: the post with the ladder from Towniest to Scummiest and then there's this one (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8093#msg8093), where he calmly asserts Serela is "leaning scum" at a time when I was pushing Serela hard still.

He townreads Zwerdjib, but suspiciously is not around at all for anything regarding the zwerdjib debacle. In fact, his reads list is mostly observations, and then saying "I lean this way"... without actually explaining too much. It's pretty much reporting.

Man. Serela gave me flak for not caring much but this is taking the cake.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 09:57:09 AM
(http://blob:https://imgur.com/44b7fc1e-c376-496e-b9e2-ee66ec982213)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 09:59:57 AM
Damn, can't post memes, huh. That sucks, but it is what it is. Had a funny caption saying, "Meow is lurkscum, change my mind."

I guess there's a chance Zoomy is the last scum, but I don't think so. Dormio went completely insane and salty over being copped, which suggests to me he was already frustrated due to his buddies lurking so hard. Consider also at a 15% odds of getting their QT exposed, we hardly even got any messages.

I'll read Zoomy later but I'm pretty convinced at this point Meow's the last lurkscum, considering the extremely low volume of posts and content therein, but in what he posts, he does find scum in people who "don't post enough"... and constantly hopes for Dormio to clear himself.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 14, 2020, 02:00:20 PM
I don't really have much else to say currently tbh.
Bard is probably my top pick for SK.
Serela is who my gut saying is scum, but I guess logically it could also be meow.
I feel ok about Daiya either way.
These are pretty meh opinions but the longer this day goes on the less confident I'm feeling in any read oof.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 02:48:50 PM
So, Zoomy. Interestingly (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7836#msg7836), the one who feels least about Raikaria.

(Off-hand note on Serela giving ConfirmedScumDormio a town pass here (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7838#msg7838))

(Irony here on Beru saying "if anyone's replacing out, it's scum" (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7829#msg7829))

I note (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7842#msg7842) some defence of Dormio, and what could possibly be seen as a bus on Beru (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7859#msg7859) there. Interestingly, towards the end of Day 3, there's a chance to hop on Beru's wagon (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7919#msg7919) (see votecount (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7912#msg7912)) but rather than follow-up on the Beru wagon he was pushing himself earlier, but which he abandoned when it was looking like it might work (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7878#msg7878).

Scum getting cold feet? Interesting combined with his jump on Abu because "end of day vote spread is disheartening" despite actually hopping off a wagon.

I also rather dislike the exchange with Dormio (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8037#msg8037) considering he again iterated Dormio "probably town" but might read Dormio as scum if Zwerd flips Town (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8025#msg8025). Rather, "I can see", not "I will see".

He remains convinced later on Dormio's "the last scum" and happily votes Yaersulf. What this means is that, if Yaer flipped Town, then "Dormio is last scum" would stop holding water and he'd have a shot at just leaving Dormio alone again.

Argh.

Basically I want to lynch two scum players but I can only go with one. My heart wants to go Zoomy because I don't have many good feelings about him but my mind says Meow is the more likely candidate given Dormio's freak out over being copped and throwing in the towel.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 02:53:53 PM
Basically Zoomy's spent the game going after Beru, then leaving that wagon when a Beru lynch looks possible.

Spends all game harping on confirmed-notScum Raikaria,
continuously gave Dormio free passes and maintains camaraderie with confirmed-Scum,
and kept heavily pushing for Yaersulf to die, despite him claiming Cop which as I said earlier, it's just bad form to be nuking your cop.

Yeah.

I feel Zoomy>Meow>Serela at the moment for my scum picks but I need to re-read Serela again and then eat some delicious waffles because I feel za pressure.

We have 7 players, if we don't lynch anyone then tomorrow we have 5-6 players (depending on who scum/SK hit) with a chance of 7 because there is still a Doc in play I think. Do nukes reload? Do we have more nukes?

Someone please shoot me, I don't really know the way ooooout of this meeeeeess everyone's scuuuum (except Raik who can be SK)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 14, 2020, 02:56:06 PM
Like, I'm not denying any of that because it's what has happened but it's as a result of strawberries reads and not as a result of being scum lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 14, 2020, 04:51:09 PM
Like, I sympathise on one hand but on the other you're all looking like scum to me so like, I'd prefer if one of you weren't scum?? Raikaria is at least confirmed not scum, and I want to believe Daiya's not scum because I just don't see any reason to claim submarine as scum so it's just...?????????

???????
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 14, 2020, 05:17:49 PM
Still waiting on Meow to actually do something.

Bard does bring up a pretty good point about him not actually making a single case. He's kind of just coasted and posted things just townie enough to escape being #1 lurker.

I think at this point Meow might be the best nuke/lynch target, not really much else to say regarding this because he's not actually done too much else.

##Vote: Meow56
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 14, 2020, 05:18:28 PM
Also the fact no-one has claimed Fighter and given their results makes me think Fighter is Scum/SK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2020, 07:09:03 PM
been laying in bed all day, it's pretty painful to look at bright screens right now, i didn't reread bard proper but i actually have liked him better since after he came back mid-d2 despite still thinking his earlygame looks pretty scummy. giving him some side-eye because he flopped over not doing anything because "zzzz role shens are lame i want to play mafia" when we were already at the point where we needed to decide who the scummiest person to lynch was again instead of role shens but he's basically made up for it since

also, nnr didn't remove dorms from the 1st post yet, we only have 6 people alive atm. and no deaths isn't a possibility unless we lynch another antitown (or nuke one with daiya, etc) because if the sk+maf dualtarget someone it'll kill through the doc from what i understand, iirc the doc role says only prevents first attempt of the night

maybe i was giving meow too hard of a newbie pass, not sure, hard to think atm

i do think the fact that people are clearing daiya off the claim pretty much proves in of itself that it can be a worthy gambit; what's better, avoiding suspicion or having a freebie nuke that won't actually make the game end earlier
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 14, 2020, 10:36:15 PM
OK, here I am.

Serela - Made vote analysis of beru -> Abu swing which has beru voting for me. I mean, he did vote for me, but only for 50 minutes, and he immediately voted zwerdjib after. And he made this switch in between vote counts, which implies you made this list yourself. I haven't the foggiest idea why you did this.

Daiya - Mildly annoyed that they are "happy to hear more" from me and "want to interact" with me more in DEFCON3, then proceed to disappear and forget about me. Also barely discusses Dormio at all--his one opinion on him pre-cop is "he's townie, but we should keep an eye on him". Thinks I'm likely to be North Korea because beru was the night kill.
Why does beru dying imply I'm North Korea, again?

Bardiche - Reading through, found this
I similarly don't really enjoy building cases that amount to nothing more than "this player doesn't post much"
Nice
But also,
(meow56) constantly hopes for Dormio to clear himself.
What post(s) made you think this?

raikaria - Confirmed not Russian, so low-priority read.
Zoomy Tsugumi - Still think they're townie, so low-priority as well. Bardiche's case may make me reconsider...

Daiya > Bardiche > Serela is probably my top 3.

Why do people think Battleship is town, again? Couldn't North Korea take it and use it on themselves?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2020, 11:50:36 PM
it's pretty rare for roles to be able to self-target and if they are it's generally explicitly stated, so no, the doc is most likely not North Korea
Serela - Made vote analysis of beru -> Abu swing which has beru voting for me. I mean, he did vote for me, but only for 50 minutes, and he immediately voted zwerdjib after. And he made this switch in between vote counts, which implies you made this list yourself. I haven't the foggiest idea why you did this.
nnr hasn't exactly been making many votecounts. I went ahead and updated it through the next page so that it would be more relevant for votecount analysis

it's a good point that beru voted you but your chances of being lynched were also fairly low, given that no one else was voting you and they jumped off shortly after so i don't think it means anything
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 14, 2020, 11:52:27 PM
actually i'm not sure what meow's "analysis" on me actually has to do with anything tbh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 15, 2020, 03:35:19 AM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Sierra

meow56 (1) - Raikaria
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) - Dormio, Dormio
Bardiche (0) - Serela
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio
Dormio (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela

Not Voting (5) -  meow56, Daiya, Bardiche, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
☢Dormio☢ - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 15, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
i'm going to bed after night shift but, while i suspect daiya, i do agree the situation around the claim timing suggests not-scum, i think NK is very possible if not downright likely... yeah probably not lynch them atm if we're focusing on the final scum? which is probably for the best because lmao north korea hunting

that really just narrows my options down to meow and bardiche lmao

i'm v.tired but my headache's been gradually improving at least, after like 3 days, i'll think about it more after i wake up, meow i was mostly just newbie passing for one solid post, but i do think bard got better after d2...? need to mull over, esp. now that it's down to like literally 2 people as the only reasonable options from my POV
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 15, 2020, 02:16:59 PM
bard got better after mid-d2*

man lynching a newbie in kinda-pseudo-lylo as far as TOWN's win goes at least feels bad but might be where we're at

we could use daiya's nuke but if we hit+lynch wrong then it's very possible the game doesn't even go to d4 at all, even if one of the anti-towns NKs the other. we probably shouldn't use Daiya's nuke, because the 3p lylo becomes very winnable if russia/north korea end up stealth bombing the other, whether it's by accident or not
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 15, 2020, 04:55:34 PM
Prod dodgeing for the moment, had training day at work; need to do IRL; will post later.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 15, 2020, 05:14:04 PM
I have a massive headache and since my last post and now, nothing has really changed re: all three candidates seeming scummy.


As for Meow:
https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7932#msg7932 -> Dormio as Townread
https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8093#msg8093 -> Dormio as "leaning scum" but "would like to hear more" (basically, sounds like you're setting up to townread him after "hearing more", unless town does not favour dormio)


Basically, "I want to hear more" after putting him as a Townread earlier sounds like you're looking for an excuse to maintain that read
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 15, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
I have a massive headache and since my last post and now, nothing has really changed re: all three candidates seeming scummy.


As for Meow:
https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg7932#msg7932 -> Dormio as Townread
https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=149.msg8093#msg8093 -> Dormio as "leaning scum" but "would like to hear more" (basically, sounds like you're setting up to townread him after "hearing more", unless town does not favour dormio)


Basically, "I want to hear more" after putting him as a Townread earlier sounds like you're looking for an excuse to maintain that read

Going to that first quote; Beru is also unusually high; and the highest of all the 'lurker' slots; which is also interesting given Beru flipped scum.

Granted, one can think scum are townie; and there's not really any explanation behind these reads, but both Dormio and Beru place strangely high and they both flipped scum so...
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 15, 2020, 06:01:04 PM
Thing is Beru didn't do anything to read and Dormio spent maybe 75% of his posts just tunnelling Zwerb so it's not like the scum have left many interactions.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 15, 2020, 07:11:47 PM
Mmm... yeah, I do like that point. FYI when I meant pseudo lylo newbie lynch felt bad I meant because newbie lynches are coinflippy, however, PoE and evidence do seem to both be pointing in that direction

Yeah. I think I'm satisfied with this decision.

##Vote Meow
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 16, 2020, 03:49:38 AM
I am happy to sheep this.
##Vote:Meow
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 16, 2020, 04:07:08 AM
Bard had meow as top scummiest pick as well and deadline is less than 24 hours off so meow should claim whenever they get back
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 16, 2020, 06:54:04 AM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Tango

meow56 (3) - Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi (L-1)
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) - Dormio, Dormio
Bardiche (0) - Serela
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio
Dormio (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela

Not Voting (5) -  meow56, Daiya, Bardiche

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 16, 2020, 07:01:52 AM
##Unvote: Meow56

Don't want Daiya/Bard to hammer before Meow's claim. Especially since I'm fairly sure one of them is the other SK/Scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 16, 2020, 07:02:23 AM
I'll re-vote if Meow still hasn't claimed by the time I've got back home and eaten however.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 16, 2020, 10:39:22 AM
Yup, I'm down for

##Vote: Meow
##Unvote


since I don't want accidental lynches either. 15hrs from this post though.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 16, 2020, 05:43:35 PM
I'm back but there's still 8 hours.

I'll probobly be around for 4.5~5.5 hours. If there's no claim by the time I'm going to sleep I'm hammering.

Also it's been way over 24 hours since meow's last post so... uh... prod request?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Daiya on June 16, 2020, 06:15:38 PM
i'm fine with meow, just waiting on the claim now

should i just idle the nuke?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 16, 2020, 06:31:34 PM
Yeah I went over that earlier and I think the numbers favor not nuking. If we missed with nuke and lynch, we'd lose even after an antitown getting nightkilled tonight. Meanwhile if we don't nuke, one getting nk'd means likely win.

Numbers are small enough they could totally do it by accident!

Plus if they don't suicide we won't even know if we caught, say, the final scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 16, 2020, 08:28:37 PM
I will hammer in approximately 2 hours.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 16, 2020, 09:41:46 PM
OK it's a bit sooner than 2 hours but I'm sleepy after 7 days of work on the trot.

By the way; I've decided since I'm almost certainly dying this night due to my clear status and cannot protect myself:

I'm the Doc. I protected Zoomy. This confirms Zoomy as Not-Mafia; although he could be the SK.

Now we have two players cleared of being Red. And hey, maybe both of the scum target me so we don't wind up with both me and Zoomy dead.

##Vote: Meow56
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 17, 2020, 01:16:19 AM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Uniform

meow56 (3) - Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, Bardiche, Raikaria (L-1)
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) - Dormio, Dormio
Bardiche (0) - Serela
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio
Dormio (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela

Not Voting (5) -  meow56, Daiya, Bardiche

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 17, 2020, 01:16:50 AM
Kinda gave up this game, probably earlier than I should have. Whatever, here are some final thoughts.

Also the fact no-one has claimed Fighter and given their results makes me think Fighter is Scum/SK.
You're about to find out this is wrong. The real reason the fighter hasn't claimed yet is because they targeted Yaersulf N1 and Dormio N2. I wasn't about to reveal the espionage D2, even if I thought they were scummy, and Dormio immediately revealed their role on D3 start, so I got two totally useless results.

More worryingly is
And hey, maybe both of the scum target me so we don't wind up with both me and Zoomy dead.
which seems to imply that you don't think I'm scum.


Also thinking about Zoomy, whose read on me went
I'm pretty confident in a meow townread personally, but he's not guaranteed unless he's the doc. It's just something I'm willing to bet on.
to
Serela is who my gut saying is scum, but I guess logically it could also be meow.
to
I am happy to sheep this (case on meow56).
which feels kinda meh.

Regardless, raikaria's claim means only one of them is scum (in the anti-town sense, as opposed to the Russian sense). Between the two, my gut says raikaria. Maybe raikaria's fighter shade is making me think they thought I was scum for longer than they really did?



...Hmm, I just realized that throughout this game I've been trying to appear townie, which is literally exactly what scum does. Note to self: don't do that.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:26:15 AM
oh hey it's meow

also i mean town should still try to look town tbh but it should mostly just be the way where it's motivating you to post regularly and do good scumhunting things

Meow, how does Rai being a doc and saving zoomy mean one of them must be scum?? Since Beru the scumteam member died, the doc could only have blocked the scum NK, and they couldn't have anticipated the SK killing beru, so making a gambit of having THEMSELVES remove their own NK makes no sense because normally it wouldn't have even confirmed anything super hard

as it is, raikaria is practically confirmed town (doc sk??? lmao why) and Zoomy is confirmed not-scum

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:27:28 AM
idk this really doesn't look like a dying scum post

but it's also literally 30 minutes to deadline, rai is asleep, and are bard/daiya/zoomy even here
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 17, 2020, 01:28:39 AM
Rereading that, I realize I neglected to put "at max".

ie, they're both not Russian, and there's only one North Korea, so at max {raikaria, Zoomy} contains one scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 17, 2020, 01:29:49 AM
I'm here
but where do we go next
##Unvote
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:31:15 AM
ohhh you explicitly stated not scum in the "russian" sense, but for SK

rai as doc is very much not sk i think. I mused earlier and really, a nuke silo is so massively better (offensive or defensive) and the gambit potential doesn't sound worth passing that up. Sure, they ended up confirmed, but the chances of this occurring were incredibly low; successful doc on n2 AND the sk nightkills a scum so it's confirmed the mafia nk was the one blocked?

zoomy could be sk. sk hunting is hard ;_;
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:33:14 AM
if it's not meow, and zoomy is literally confirmed not-scum now, rai's the doc who blocked scum nightkill, and I think daiya isn't mafia based on claim and we're not SK hunting right now, it LITERALLY just comes down to Bard
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:34:11 AM
we currently have 3 votes to work with and 27 minutes?

##Unvote
##Vote Bard


if no one else is here uh maybe we just jump back on meow, idk, no lynching might be better because numbers. these posts really don't feel like dying scum
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 17, 2020, 01:35:02 AM
##Vote: Bard
I still think Bard might be the SK instead but either way this is a lynch I would actively like as opposed to just sheeping.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 17, 2020, 01:37:20 AM
re:raikaria, yeah, I guess you're right.

But do we even have enough people to swing the lynch like this? We've got less than half an hour.

Well, ok, I guess we can try.

##Vote: Bardiche
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 17, 2020, 01:38:05 AM
and yea no lynching leaves us at tomorrow with 4 players assuming both kills go through
which, depending on who gets killed could be a mess or a good time for town
If only one kill goes through or one kill kills scum town ends up in a much better position.

Else if we lynch a townie it's a likelihood of 3p with one faction each if 2 townies die overnight.


Anyway, that's L-1 so we just need one more vote.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:39:09 AM
yeah we literally might not have enough people but hey, ~22 minutes!

actually with rai asleep and bard being Himself, we're literally JUST praying on daiya lmao

zoomy, opinion on if no one shows up? no lynch? back on meow?

actually wait we literally can't lynch meow unless bard shows up
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 17, 2020, 01:40:42 AM
DEFCON 1, Lynch Phase
Vote Count Victor

Bardiche (3) - Serela, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, meow56  (L-1)
meow56 (1) - Raikaria, Serela, Zoomy Tsugumi, Bardiche, Raikaria
Zoomy Tsugumi (0) - Dormio, Dormio
Serela (0) -
Raikaria (0) -
Daiya (0) -
Yaersulf (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, Dormio
Dormio (X) - Zoomy Tsugumi, NucleusWaffles, Serela

Not Voting (5) - Daiya, Bardiche

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Lynch.

Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:41:24 AM
ok yeah if no one else shows up we literally can't lynch -anyone- rofl

unless meow self-voted but uh

the only meow who would possibly self-vote is town meow

not exactly productive
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 17, 2020, 01:41:44 AM
lmao I mean I think I'd rather there be no lynch if we can't get Bard lynched, I agree that meow's post doesn't seem very anti-town hence the immediate unvote from me.
We're kind of in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation unless we lynch an anti-town member and considering meow's post I'd rather put the effort on Bard and hope it goes through than end up in a weird position that we would've been heading towards anyway otherwise.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:51:25 AM
sobs

8 minutes left
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 17, 2020, 01:52:36 AM
the funniest part here is that we literally can't even lynch meow because of how many people unvoted to 'prevent L-1 shenanigans'
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 17, 2020, 01:54:06 AM
 :cirnotan:
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: meow56 on June 17, 2020, 01:59:28 AM
Welp
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 17, 2020, 02:04:14 AM
Timers:
End of Phase - [ Expired ]

No-Lynch-tan, British Missile Silo was laid to waste in the crossfire!

It is now the Night Phase. You have 24 hours to send in night actions.
Stealth Bombers are still active.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 08:47:34 AM
sorry for the delay
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 2)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 08:58:18 AM
DEFCON 1
Phase 2

Daiya, American Submarine was razed.
meow56, American Fighter should have kept their jets at home.

It is now the second phase of DEFCON 1.
Nuclear War is ongoing.

You have most of 5 days to decide on a lynch. With 4 alive, you need 3 to lynch.
It is now SMYLO (Something or another and Maybe You LOse.)

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 11:35:46 AM
OK what the hell.

I selfprotected and NEITHER side went for the CLAIMED DOC. And yes; I asked NNR. I can and did self-protect.

So from what I can tell:

2 Town
1 Russian
1 SK

And we also have Serela with a nuke.

That nuke; and the potential for factional cross-killing opens up a lot.

Reminder; Zoomy cannot be Red but can be SK. I saved him and Beru was killed. [Accounting for SK shot]

Serela; the next move is yours.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 11:40:07 AM
Serela; the next move is yours.

Also by this I mean Serela needs to nuke someone. Only way Town can win if we lynch before is if I guess right and block a shot.

Which also means refusal to nuke is anti-town; meaning we might need to lynch Serela and take the 50/50.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
I mean I am 100% town so I can just say outright that Serela is anti-town and Bard is too.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:44:08 PM
I mean I am 100% town so I can just say outright that Serela is anti-town and Bard is too.

The thing is; assuming you're correct; let's say we turbolynch Serela before he can nuke someone:

We still immediately lose tomorrow should I fail the 50/50 doc save. Because it'll be 1 Town 1 Non-Town.

Here is what happens if Scum Serela nukes a Townie:

1/1/1

No lynch happens because Town won't lynch SK or Mafia; since that's an autoloss [Well; stalemate if I'm the one alive]
Mafia won't lynch Town because SK and Mafia then cross-shoot and SK wins

So No-Lynch is inevitable. We're then stuck with a standoff where Mafia wants to shoot SK [Any other outcome; they lose] and SK shoots either the Mafia or Town and basically decides if Town or Scum wins.

Oh; and if Serela nukes taking the 50/50 to find his opposing faction and hits the other scum; then we can take the 50/50 lynch as town [from my perspective] and at least force a stalemate because I'm still alive and can't be broken.

So Serela should nuke. If he dosen't; he's scum. Town!Serela knows he's Town. He knows I'm Town. So nuking means he wins.

If he's scum we know he's not Town; because of the above. It's too risky for Scum!Serela to nuke.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:46:18 PM
Basically I'm saying: Serela; if you're scum and you don't press that button and nuke someone; you lose 100% because we lynch you. I'll take the 50/50 on stopping the SK/Scum shot with my Doc; and if I stop it Town wins.

If you're Town just nuke one of the scums.

Either way, it plays out in Town's benefit.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:48:22 PM
Oh; and Serela nuking me dosen't mean Turbo Serela. It means No-Lynch and the two non-town factions need to think real long and hard tonight about if they want to shoot town or their opposing scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:51:10 PM
I should point out that there is nothing in the rules regarding 2 no lynches being an autoloss.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:52:01 PM
Oh yeah and Zoomy/Bard; you guys should claim.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 12:52:33 PM
I might have missed the claims earlier but I'm a bit busy and trying to solve endgame to go back and hunt for aformentioned claims so sorry if you already claimed.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 12:54:56 PM
Oh my.

Nuke me and I will nuke you back in the face immediately. Cannot recommend if you're Scum and trying to win this game, because you will most certainly not.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
That said, I'm willing to believe Serela is Scum, as I have all game. I now have to consider whether Raikaria or Zoomy is the SK, because this truly is a nasty situation we have ourselves in.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 01:08:24 PM
I'm the Eavesdropper, and unfortunately as evidenced by Dormio's cipher talk and the in-game events that happened earlier back in D2, scum have been talking in cipher text virtually the whole game, so this PR has effectively been useless.
It is also doubly unfortunate because I'm not as familiar with people here so I could not determine as much from the minute amount of plaintext posts that I intercepted.
For the sake of clarity, here is every single message that I've intercepted this entire game, chronologically.
Quote
f
Quote
U
Quote
M3


bq cr di ej kw mt os px uz gh
Quote
Actually, since everything that I've posted below should be unreadable without having all of the information, I guess I can outline it clearly here.
Quote
One thing that is a bit annoying about the cipher is that it standardizes the spacing, so you need to manually recreate the words unless you're really good at reading text without proper formatting.
Quote
Set It Up.
Quote
I refreshed and lost the settings. Do what you want, I'm locked out of communicating with you.
Quote
https://i0.wp.com/www.deliciousgeekstew.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Earrings.jpg?w=940&ssl=1
Quote
nnfql sifhe
Quote
Even Your Coded Messages Are Complaining About Code.
Quote
qiyyi tghsz wubxm rzamu lptwy taqac rihtg lbwsg ycnms yufdn fhhhn otowz xffym crbro
Quote
ujgai izqbt xuzfm rzppk qldcv hdyig dpryg lltsx gznwc ixrfq csftn opsof cvsbz rotzt zkdfq vruil ycxgt kknlw pddwe vvesy azqdx yjulw ogsks sjo
Quote
szzts wokks kgbxq hhhax umowt yhptc itjnz ydxca rbmfz arftr ppkxq lglof yljay jyofz jeuud szlwv hmtli ducza kzopr dunqt ixewx xnwzo uljew wkgnz smgxx waodt qmrcz raobr hyocc pndjb qbifj owunv kjube cjoyw hgoaj mtoby qlrlb ysmos ddgjx lewyv dimgc m
Quote
zzzwa pmpnw yjmqv xrwqm lqwxu gmpkt
Quote
vnxcy xrxke ivzus coobr pvbhq xnjvw yhxbk xrsos drhbb nqaud
Quote
vledi notqp fjwbp pwxbk ivpoj pmgim nkrqe knjtf moibs wlkkx xspuq mplnd lpzhl nmzzc fkdfx nbixv tbnrl aklxw wqqsi mxnox pkurb sqdtm wnaij ykwup cikde ccszg mrbtn a
Quote
ezfqi aokfo gwkjv qhkiy evgkc pbemw i

vledi nocmu fstge hlokc lgele ugwfs fnswg lfbce usneo hbqwz lqtlc dgheb zzlrh kenzz gkdpp dtixw ewiew byc

yyjfh sifhe ayibj e
Hindsight is 20/20 and I would wager that the image is Beru and "I refreshed and lost the settings. Do what you want, I'm locked out of communicating with you." is Dormio, but obviously I didn't feel comfortable making judgments off something so fickle. Really wish this role was at least placed in the hands of someone with more intimate meta knowledge of y'all, because then it might have been a bit more useful.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 01:11:16 PM
Although considering the circumstances, "Even Your Coded Messages Are Complaining About Code" could probably be attributed to Serela.
Which points to Serela-scum and Bard-SK
But it's not like that even matters anyway since from my POV they're both clearly anti-town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:22:16 PM
Zoomy, if you're Town and Bard isn't bluffing, the game is entirely in Serela and Bard's hands.

Because they have two nukes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:25:23 PM
I mean it's literally a question of who fires first and who they target. Then the 2nd nuke can fire as need be.

That said; nukeing Town is handing the other party a win. So maybe they'll both not nuke.

But if that happens we lose anyway because they just nuke us tomorrow.

I think actually Town's screwed if both Bard and Serela are anti-town silos. Unless they nuke each other.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
On situation town can win:

Neither nuke because they don't want to give the other party a win. We don't lynch; because otherwise whichever one survives wins by nuking me tomorrow. They shoot each other due to Prisoner's Island and not wanting to hit my Doc.

They cross-shoot. Town wins.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:27:30 PM
Let's consider our options.

2 Townies
1 Scum
1 SK

If we lynch Town, Scum and SK both get a kill tonight.
SK kills Town, Scum kills SK -> Scum wins
SK kills Scum, Scum kills Town -> SK wins
SK & Scum both kill Town -> SK wins

If we lynch Scum, SK wins the game.
Two Townies, SK kills one, game end.
Town can only win if Raikaria is Town, and successfully predicts the SK NK.

If we lynch SK, Scum wins the game.
Two Townies, Scum kills one, game end.
Town can only win if Raikaria is Town, and successfully predicts the Scum NK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:29:36 PM
As far as nukes go, well, that'd change matters a little.

Let's say I nuke Scum and Scum has no nuke.
2 Townies, 1 SK, lynch the right one and we win.

Let's say I nuke SK and SK has no nuke. (???)
2 Townies, 1 Scum, lynch the scums and we win.

If I nuke Town then lol Townie wincon, need a second nuke to fly for that to happen.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
Let's say I nuke Scum and Scum has no nuke.
2 Townies, 1 SK, lynch the right one and we win.

Let's say I nuke SK and SK has no nuke. (???)
2 Townies, 1 Scum, lynch the scums and we win.

If I nuke Town then lol Townie wincon, need a second nuke to fly for that to happen.

Bard; we almost certainly know Serela has a nuke.

Also there's been a blocked shot and I'm un-CC'ed Battleship. We know Battleship is in the game because only Beru died before so a shot must have been blocked; as Mafia couldn't have shot Beru.

I'm literally confirmed Town. You and Serela both claimed Silo and Zoomy claimed Interceptor.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:32:10 PM
So SK Zoomy and Scum Serela. If I nuke Serela, will he nuke Zoomy? :^)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:33:44 PM
I guess I could be a Doc-SK too; except the idea of self-targeting didn't come up until last phase; so I don't think I blocked for myself; especially since I said I blocked a shot on Zoomy.

Cut:

So SK Zoomy and Scum Serela. If I nuke Serela, will he nuke Zoomy? :^)

If you nuke Zoomy; Town loses because Serela still has a nuke, nukes you, and the lynch is tied. We then go into the next day phase after I block a shot on myself and he nukes me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:35:08 PM
Also I assume if you nuke Serela; Serela nukes someone and a non-Town Zoomy would win [Or we'd stalemate].

This is basically a game of Russian Roulette and I can't even do much.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:36:24 PM
These hypotheticals are based on Town!Bard of course.

I mean of the three I'm leaning Zoomy Town simply beacause he's confirmed Not-Russian, and his role dosen't seem like something SK would take. Although it could help him identify and kill the scum, and he could easily be hiding information which helped him find Beru.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:36:58 PM
There's one teensy tiny issue.

I do not currently have my nuke configured to offensive mode.


Serela can nuke either you or Zoomy.


Let's say Serela is Scum, Zoomy is SK, you and I are Town.


Serela nukes me, GG he loses.
Serela nukes Zoomy, we lynch Serela, GG he loses.
Serela nukes you, GG, SK wins.


There's no win condition for Scum!Serela that involves nukes.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:38:19 PM
Actually; wait a second.

We were asking why the SK would have targeted Beru of all players.

However; Zoomy being the SK makes perfect sense of why Beru would have been targeted. There was a leak which gave Zoomy the information that Beru was Red.

There's one teensy tiny issue.

I do not currently have my nuke configured to offensive mode.


Serela can nuke either you or Zoomy.


Let's say Serela is Scum, Zoomy is SK, you and I are Town.


Serela nukes me, GG he loses.
Serela nukes Zoomy, we lynch Serela, GG he loses.
Serela nukes you, GG, SK wins.


There's no win condition for Scum!Serela that involves nukes.

Also we're not sure what setting Serela is on.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:42:21 PM
There was a leak which gave Zoomy the information that Beru was Red.


strawberries, that makes sense. OK, so Zoomy is the SK, then Serela is the last Scum, as I had been saying all along.


Let's see.


We lynch Serela, Serela nukes Raikaria: SK vs Town, SK wins.
We lynch Serela, Serela nukes me: nuke duds, SK vs 2 Townies, gamblerino on Raikaria's foresight.
We lynch Serela, Serela nukes Zoomy: Town wins.


So there's no situation in which lynching Serela can bring about a Scum win, provided Serela is the final Scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:44:56 PM
Actually, this is actually pretty easy.

I'm not actually a missile silo.

I'm the Fail Safe. I figured I might get NK'd and wanted to be sure to nuke whoever was Scummiest from the face of the earth.

If Serela nukes me, I will nuke him back. This means that if he nukes me, the result will be Zoomy + Raikaria, which means Raikaria wins the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:45:41 PM
There's also the end of last day; which seems like both Zoomy and Serela wanted to lynch anyone really.


strawberries, that makes sense. OK, so Zoomy is the SK, then Serela is the last Scum, as I had been saying all along.


Let's see.


We lynch Serela, Serela nukes Raikaria: SK vs Town, SK wins.
We lynch Serela, Serela nukes me: nuke duds, SK vs 2 Townies, gamblerino on Raikaria's foresight.
We lynch Serela, Serela nukes Zoomy: Town wins.


So there's no situation in which lynching Serela can bring about a Scum win, provided Serela is the final Scum.

And what about if we turbolynch Serela before he can nuke anyone?

Option 1: I block Zoomy's shot. Town wins 100%.

Option 2: Zoomy kills me, you nuke him tomorrow. Town wins.

Option 3: Zoomy kills you; he can't ever kill me. Game stalemates.

I think the answer is a Turbolynch. I also think that this is Zoomy's best chance.

Not gonna go through it however until we discuss.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:46:20 PM
Bard not being a nuke. That changes everything.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:48:25 PM
Actually; if Bard is Failsafe; he can just nuke after he's nightkilled and I'm alive anyway.

The problem is *getting* a lynch.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:48:41 PM
We lynch Serela.

You defend yourself tonight.

If SK kills me, I nuke him in the face, we win.

If SK doesn't kill me, we lynch him tomorrow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:49:19 PM
##Vote: Serela

C'mon, Zoomy, give us the win here.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:49:58 PM
##Vote: Serela

@NNR: What happens in a stalemate?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 02:55:18 PM
##Unvote

Hang on.

Let's say there's a Raikaria SK. Factional NK can happen alongside other roles.

Lynch Serela, and SK Raikaria wins the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:57:35 PM
##Unvote

Hang on.

Let's say there's a Raikaria SK. Factional NK can happen alongside other roles.

Lynch Serela, and SK Raikaria wins the game.

Except:

1: Why would I have nightkilled Beru of all players?

2: No-one even mentioned about the Battleship self-targeting until after the night where Beru was killed and a shot was blocked. So you'd be assumeing not only was I aware of this; but I got shot; despite not being the biggest townread, *and* I decided to shoot Beru.

Zoomy SK makes sense due to his ability to see leaks, which could have revealed Beru was scum thus giving him a reason to shoot Beru.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:58:29 PM
Basically me being SK would be some sort of mega-gambit.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
Also I'd have totally killed Zoomy; you or Serela over Daiya or Meow.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 03:00:13 PM
Would it? SK wants to stay alive, Battleship self-defend every night and you're practically confirmed to stay alive to kill more and more.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
I mean the Meow kill makes no sense.

The fact you were left alone period makes no sense considering you claimed not to be able to self-defend.

...

Actually.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 03:04:07 PM
I know I claimed not self-defending. It was a lie to try and absorb shots.

Even if I was scum me living makes no sense. The other faction would have shot me; and there should have been only 1 death.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 03:23:35 PM
all my thoughts come to Everyone is Scum and I want to die a painful radioactive death to free me from the decision-making.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 03:32:15 PM
I mean the only decision is if you think I'm a Doctor-SK who's been selfprotecting before it even came up as a possibility; and has been saying the whole game 'I'm not clear of being the SK guys', and I decided to randomly kill Beru.

Rather than me being Town, and Zoomy killing Beru because he overheard something that gave it away.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:35:58 PM
SCREAMING

I just woke up and read the thread

This is too much to take in at once omg

Stop turbolynching me please!!!!! This is a plan formed off assuming bard is town!!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Scum!Rai is literally impossible because of the Copclear.

SK!Rai... makes some sense. Consider.

SK!Rai works long hospital shifts, and addled from lack of sleep submits a kill on Beru, who he didn't realise was in danger of being modkilled/didn't have any better targets/whatevers, who the fire truck kills Beru?

That night, Scum decided to clear Raikaria from the field as everyone believed him Town.

Raikaria self-protecc.

The previous game day, Raikaria claims he cannot self-protecc, hoping Scum'll fall for it (???) while he goes off to kill someone else. Except Scum knew he could self-protecc since he did it before and so decide to hit someone else.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:39:20 PM
Arguing I wanted to lynch anyone??? At the end of the day I didn't want to lynch LITERALLY anyone except bard ???????????

Cut
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:40:55 PM
Meow NK suggests someone wants to lie out the bum about their role, unless it was just a ploy to avoid doc and dualtargetting

Which I guess would make sense too ugh
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
If I were Scum/SK, I'd have killed you Selery because you keep threatening to nuke me/tried to organise a ninja-lynch on me. Do you really think I'd be so daft to let you live if I had the power to off you?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
Serela; what setting is your nuke?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:44:15 PM
Oh my god bard stop making me cry, you guys keep making plausible arguments anyone could be sk

Although the argument Rai nk'd beru out of delirium feels more like a hilarious conspiracy theory than anything else tbh

It's so funny I love that you actually did it

My nuke is offensive

Bard:im still mid processing ok
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
Like I'm phonereading because I haven't gotten out of bed and every couple posts is another madly wild twist holy heck
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 03:48:56 PM
SK!Rai works long hospital shifts, and addled from lack of sleep submits a kill on Beru, who he didn't realise was in danger of being modkilled/didn't have any better targets/whatevers, who the fire truck kills Beru?

That night, Scum decided to clear Raikaria from the field as everyone believed him Town.

The previous game day, Raikaria claims he cannot self-protecc, hoping Scum'll fall for it (???) while he goes off to kill someone else. Except Scum knew he could self-protecc since he did it before and so decide to hit someone else.

Except Zoomy didn't think I was town and he was the biggest townread?

Also; we have 24 hours to make 1 command. I'm lucid enough to think nightkills through Bard. I certainly would not target Beru. Neither would I target Meow or Daiya out of the options. Especially since I'm you know, the Doc.

Using my claim last night is silly. Yes; I was hoping to draw a shot to myself to block.

Now how would that benefit a SK? Who's wincon is 'everyone else is dead'. I'd want the scum to kill someone else. Not waste their shot on me and achieve nothing.

My nuke is offensive

You have a nuke on offense and know who's scum... so why haven't you used it?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 03:52:19 PM
Rai I finished reading the thread like 10 minutes ago and I need to take out my contacts, use the bathroom and eat breakfast

Not to mention actually crunch numbers about the situation we're in

Maybe hold your pants on for a second Jesus Christ lmao
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 03:55:30 PM
Oh yeah I forgot

##Unvote
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 04:13:24 PM
I actually hate living to deadline because I get decision paralysis and suspect everyone of scum.

Think I prefer being lynched Day 1 for being too pro-active after all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 04:15:03 PM
Bard:I'm going to try lurking some so I can survive longer

Bard in Lylo:Nevermind actually I'm happy to die before d2 starts

eating breakfast, will reread d4 after and evaluate things
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 04:20:47 PM
Bard:I'm going to try lurking some so I can survive longer

Bard in Lylo:Nevermind actually I'm happy to die before d2 starts


(https://i.ibb.co/513pjs5/45kc8n.jpg)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 04:43:14 PM
I live to lylo an overwhelming majority of the time so I'm used to it >_>
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 04:45:21 PM
ugh the fact that doc can self-target (wtf??? I guess it makes sense since 3 factions and lottery style...? but it should seriously say that in the description) means that raikaria can actually realistically be SK and that is PAINFUL
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 04:56:01 PM
ok well, as for finding the MAFIA

it can literally only be bard FMPOV which I guess is why rai was saying that earlier

but failsafe is a pretty legit scum role to take so he's likely telling the truth

and getting counter-nuked means 2 living players :^) So what happens if I nuke bard, get failsafe'd, and we've got two incoming nukes and an SK on the loose between rai and zoomy?

1.We wait OR we turbo no-lynch-tan like a bunch of bullies
Nukes fall, SK endgames town
2.We turbo-lynch Rai or Zoomy
This only works if the scum with an impending nukefall is willing to help town win via quick-suiciding or voting with town, AKA risky as hell b/c they don't have literally any obligation to do this

this plan does not work. I literally don't think I can nuke bard? RAIKARIA THIS IS WHY WE THINK ABOUT THINGS FIRST


Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 04:58:25 PM
honestly rai urgently pushing me to nuke bard when i've already said i'm reading from bed and have only just woken up leads me to suspect maybe they really are the SK because doing that is incredibly likely to result in sk win
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 18, 2020, 05:00:17 PM
TO HAVE DETERMINATION AND FAITH TO WIN, GO TOWN
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:02:39 PM
CUTE, NOW GET BACK IN YOUR GRAVE LIKE A GOOD WAFFLE
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:09:54 PM
So I pretty much can't nuke Bard and he's confirmed scum (FMPOV), so I need to try to nuke the SK? Not nuking anyone definitely seems like the wrong play and at worst this is a 50/50 guess for my SK nuke.

If I nuke the SK and we lynch Bard, we're good to go. That's 2 town alive and he can only failsafe one of us at worst. Of course, at that point, Rai or Zoomy still have to be willing to vote Bard over me I guess, but that's just the reality we live in so I'll worry about that when we get there.

...i'm debating internally and i would appreciate any comments on the plan so far @_@ I think this is accurate so I'm mostly just trying to deliberate whether I nuke Rai or Zoomy here?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 05:23:15 PM
How am I “confirmed scum”? Is this the magic Serela moment where he flings whatever strawberries he can in hopes of ekeing out a win from his hopeless position?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 05:25:51 PM
In the event of a stalemate I will likely refer to the relevant win conditions and award it depending on which factions remain.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 05:31:00 PM
I actually have no clue to be honest. I'll give it some thought.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
If I nuke the town (whoops!) we can still lynch bard and if he's actually a failsafe he might feel benevolent and fire it off at someone trying to save town.

Actually, no, that doesn't work. He nukes me and SK wins or he nukes the other person and the SK still has more than enough time left to nightkill me and win via global death. (48hr nukes, 24hr night phase)

If Raikaria is actually town then their doc could maybe do something? but this only comes into play if I nuke zoomy, obviously there's no point nuking Rai if we let him live long enough to use a night action anyway (he won't save anyone but himself if he's SK) Mmmn. And if I nuke Zoomy and Rai's SK, we've already lost regardless of how we progress. If I nuke Rai!Town and Zoomy is SK, I think loss is guaranteed...

Yeah there's no weird shenanigans we can do here. I think I literally just have to nuke the SK successfully or it's a loss.

From your guys perspectives where I can still theoretically be scum, Bard as failsafe SK is basically guaranteed the win period if we no-lynch after I nuke, because whether he's lynched or nightkilled, he fires off a failsafe nuke and hits the last living player and wins the game. Thankfully I know this isn't the case! @_@

uhhhhh is there literally any situation I haven't gone over already? like anything? I guess I haven't fully numbercrunched if we no-lynch WITHOUT nuking? Rai would HAVE to be town, have to block a kill, and this is straight-up worse than me firing the nuke at Zoomy, so no, we don't do this.

Yeah I think I've covered everything. I pretty much have to successfully nuke whichever of Rai or Zoomy is the SK. No other options. Period.

How am I “confirmed scum”? Is this the magic Serela moment where he flings whatever strawberries he can in hopes of ekeing out a win from his hopeless position?
Bard I've been attaching the "from my point of view" addendum to (almost?) every time I've said this. Rai was literally copped as not-mafia and Rai is claiming to have docced Zoomy Tsugumi on a night where scum was nightkilled (via sk as only rational explanation) meaning if Rai isn't the SK pulling a major gambit, Zoomy cannot be mafia.

...wait... could rai!sk pull this as a major gambit and result in a world where zoomy is potentially mafia?

I'm SOBBING

NNR:What? I'm pretty sure a stalemate is not actually possible lmao
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:32:12 PM
ok I guess a stalemate where a theoretical town!raikaria as doctor self-protects every night against the final scum or SK could exist

but this is OBVIOUSLY a town loss scenario.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:33:28 PM
ok I guess a stalemate where a theoretical town!raikaria as doctor self-protects every night against the final scum or SK could exist

but this is OBVIOUSLY a town loss scenario.

Yes this is the stalemate I've said like 5 times.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:36:04 PM
Also I'm saying to nuke one of Zoomy/Bard because I know I'm not an SK Doctor who randomly targeted Beru.

Seriously. Zoomy is very likly the SK because his role explains Beru's death.

Also if I was SK why would I have brutally shot down Zeep's massclaim plan as being more useful to SK+Russia than to Town? Why would I deny myself information.

Seriously the amount of hoops you have to jump through for me to be SK is massive. I mean it's a theoretical possibility, but it makes a lot more sense and is a lot less logical than 'Zoomy got a leak which told him Beru was the scum'.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:39:08 PM
There's still the problem of how to handle the other lynch however. And it's not just a case of 'selfprotect' because ScumSerela could just go to defensive Silo and protect against Bard and then nuke me the day after that, and ScumBard is a stalemate unless I block his shot.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
God these nukes make this hard. 2/1/1 is a hard situation for anyone to really win from.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:40:37 PM
screaming holding head in hands

i... i think i have to settle for the reality that it probably is insane for raikaria to actually be sk

i was already coming to this conclusion before he made that post

i think it's time to nuke zoomy
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 05:41:53 PM
Fail Safe retaliates so I 100% will nuke Serela if he tries to nuke me. If I get killed, I’ll instead nuke Serela for being scum.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:43:49 PM
Fail Safe retaliates so I 100% will nuke Serela if he tries to nuke me. If I get killed, I’ll instead nuke Serela for being scum.

But as I just said; Serela can switch to defense, shoot down your nuke; stalemate the lynch, bounce off me, and then nuke me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:44:38 PM
I mean this is all assumeing Serela nukes Zoomy and Zoomy is the SK.

Either way it comes down to a 50/50. We No-Lynch and I try and block a shot for info, or I decide to lynch between you and Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:45:54 PM
##Nuke:ZoomyTsugumi
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 05:47:04 PM
Serela nukes Zoomy and we lynch Serela.


I don’t have a nuke I can fire off, so I couldn’t off you even if I had an NK.


This’d reduce risks to 0 for Town.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 05:48:17 PM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1


(https://i.imgur.com/IyKnr4B.png)

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility QZ-192 , currently commanded by Serela.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory . . .
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to Zoomy Tsugami.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate on Saturday, June 20, 1:48:54 EDT

[ Expired ]
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 18, 2020, 05:48:49 PM
Except NNR basically just said a stalemate is Town loss.

Anyway, let's see what Zoomy flips first. Because, you know, he could still end up Town and in that case... well, you guys are on Prisoner's Island.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:49:42 PM
yeah a world where town 'bulletproof' doesn't lose in a 1v1 endgame with scum would be dumb lmao

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:54:06 PM
Oh jeez this is just in time, I barely have enough time left to get ready for work zzzzzzzzzz

Guess we're just waiting on Zoomy's flip now though. I'll be back later!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 05:56:34 PM
Honestly the very fact Serela decided to post
yeah a world where town 'bulletproof' doesn't lose in a 1v1 endgame with scum would be dumb lmao




shows that Scum!Serela’s wincon here is banking on Rai losing a 1v1 with him. Literally the only way he could win is removing the suspected SK between Rai and Zoomy, since nuking me’d end him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 05:58:31 PM
Please consider from before. Scum!Serela can win if he nukes Zoomy/Rai, then convinces the other to lynch me.

That’s fine, but that he thinks it’s “stupid” if scum lost in a 1v1 with Rai makes me think Scum!Serela wants to win by eliminating me and then nuking Rai tomorrow, if a stalemate somehow exists.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
uh

no?

it would just be dumb, like, as a concept. i don't have to be the mafia to think that town failing to lose a 1v1 with scum without being able to kill them somehow is just lame. this is also a hilariously nonexistent argument to use to argue for me being scum over you
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 06:00:57 PM
imagine being scum and losing the game because you didn't successfully lynch the town 'bulletproof' first. lmao what. hilariously bad for balance
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 06:02:57 PM
also yes even if was scum I could just nuke rai with my silo. like. the stalemate as a concept doesn't even matter in that case, because one wouldn't exist. that only 'applies' to bard-scum. so how is me saying it would be dumb even somehow an indicator of me being scum????? if i'm scum it doesn't even exist!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 06:06:00 PM
You being so defensive points to Scum!Selery :^)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
you flailing with such ridiculous arguments points to scum!bard? :U

do you expect me to somehow not defend myself when you make absurd arguments, considering that when zoomy flips the day is probably between lynching me or you
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 06:15:48 PM
But see, Selery, only you (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg1883#msg1883) would post a picture directly from the source instead of uploading it elsewhere, like I do.

:^) That image Zoomy intercepted is just totally Serela. I don’t see Dormio using a “reaction image” like that, nor do I think Beru is the sort to do so.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 06:21:58 PM
Consider me, in contrast. The memes I post are home-made, with the Imgflip watermark. I’ve never used “reaction image” style like the one Zoomy intercepted from the Scum QT.

I’m also conscientious so I don’t use their bandwidth and host it on a dedicated image host.

See, Serela, your bad habits betray you (https://www.shrinemaiden.com/index.php?topic=84.msg3578#msg3578) in the clumsiest ways.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 2)
Post by: Bardiche on June 18, 2020, 06:24:53 PM
On gut I think zwerd's complete flailing in relation to his role and how and why he chose it suggests he's town

logically, I think he's probably scum and the meta matches up with his previous scum game

life is hard


There’s also the weird part where you pre-claim a gut on Zwerd Town, as if you already fully expected him to flip green.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:25:29 PM
bruh i woke up to 3 pages of conspiracy theories about how i'm obviously the sk because i caught beru and now im in the process of being nuked
ok, werk, i'm town, raik fell for the conspiracies. now you're dealing with a kingmaker situation. i think the win should go to bard, he played a good game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:26:25 PM
all the spats between these two on this page are just theatrics to snag the solo win lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:29:49 PM
actually fwiw if bard genuinely got lynched yesterday i'd probably still be townreading serela today, so maybe they deserve it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 10:31:47 PM
I'd have nuked bard but I literally can't!!!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:32:36 PM
You don't have to nuke anyone uwu
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:33:55 PM
Anyway yeah damn ig silos is the way to go for anti-town in this setup, the power is broken in low player lylo as well as being able to be in defensive mode. Today is unwinnable for town even if i wasn't being nuked. Outside of the crazy WIFOM doc protect strat.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 10:39:20 PM
question:do you plan on suiciding or sticking around
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:41:25 PM
I wanna see everyone's reactions first at least.
But if you still wanna be nuking me after 24 hrs and it's locked in I might as well suicide.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 10:49:50 PM
i mean

you could be faking it!

also i can't fire at anyone else if i call it off and i'm not sure if that's good or bad :C
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 10:52:22 PM
i havent faked anything the whole game not about to start that now when im facing impending death lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Zoomy Tsugumi on June 18, 2020, 11:05:48 PM
Actually i guess I've already said my piece and there's no downside to you letting the nuke go through at this point so
##I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death
enjoy the kingmaking raik lol
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 11:12:04 PM
Zoomy Tsugami, American Eavesdrop has pulled the plug.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
uh well

hi guys

i could continue playing around, but, assuming bard is the sk, he knows Rai was copped as Not Scum, and Rai knows we're both anti-town, so there's not much point

say hello to last scum member serela!

I WAS SCREAMING WHEN BARD STARTED ARGUING ABOUT THE IMAGE

SCREAMING

hmm rai -could- be the sk I guess

in which case bard is actually town and.. well, knows we're both scum, but rai actually wouldn't know which of us is scum

but it doesn't matter, does it. rai can't be nightkilled. apparently. rai can just NK me and it's over, dodge the failsafe entirely. so yes. it still does not matter, truly. sobs
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 11:22:45 PM
Nuclear War will end before the next phase begins.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 11:22:58 PM
oh, right

##Vote Bardiche

A win for your friendly neighborhood Serela? Please, mister? <3
C:

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 18, 2020, 11:55:59 PM
waffles

you're dead

stop talking.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 18, 2020, 11:57:18 PM
Do not post in the thread if you are not a living player.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 12:06:14 AM
Also, Rai:It's not a prisoner's dilemma because if bard's a failsafe and I NK him, he just fires at nuke at you, which you can't guard against, and that means he wins anyway

so it's actual kingmaker where forcing a no lynch just means bard wins
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 19, 2020, 12:21:21 AM
NucleusWaffles, French Surrenderer was wiped off the face of Earth by a Thor Shot.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 04:21:15 AM
zzzzz sleep is soon

of note:failsafe does not activate if the player dies via lynching

(this was something i think i had wrong in my earlier musings but actually it's totally safe to lynch them)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 06:49:02 AM
Guess it's only fair to come clean.

Yeah, I'm the Serial Killer. I hit Beru because I think modkills are lame and negative to game health, so I decided to do Neko a solid and remove the slot via actual game means. LOL at it actually hitting Scum though.

I shot Meow because at the time, I figured I'd lie about being a silo and have two people nuke me to get past the defences, so I could nuke two people in response, but... well, not much point to that fib if there's only one nuke to go around, eh?

##Vote: Serela

Now can I finally have the cake I longed for all game and see Serela lynched? I've been telling you he's Scum almost all game.

Like, literally. People. Can we finally give the old Bardiche Scumdar some credit?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 06:50:43 AM
To be fair, Serela also caught on quite early that I didn't really give a crap about anything that was going on. I pretty much assumed I'd die early anyway to a stray nuke or a silly lynch, and then whether I'd win or not was completely out of my hands.

Who knew people'd be so nuke happy they got rid of most everyone for me?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:22:03 AM
enjoy the kingmaking raik lol

As I said; this is Prisoner's Island.

Here's the deal guys.

Firstly; we No-Lynch.

Why do we No-Lynch?

1: If I lynch Bardiche; I lose to Serela's Nuke. Also I can't win in any way if we lynch. So I'm not helping you guys lynch the other guy.

2: If you guys try and lynch me, whoever is the SK wins because you guys kill each other tonight, no-one lives which means North Korea wins. So the Mafia player should not lynch me.

It is only in the interest of the Serial Killer to lynch anyone now.

Then onto Phase 2.

I can self-protect from 1 shot. This means that I need both of you to shoot me to die.

However, if this happens, we're back to the SK winning via MAD. So it is in the Russian player's interest to not shoot me. In addittion, one could shoot me and the other shoot the rival scum. This means shooting me is a bad choice.

And obviously if you guys shoot each other you lose too.  :meiling:

WELCOME TO PRISONER'S ISLAND FOLKS

##VOTE: NO-LYNCH
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:24:14 AM
Oh and by the way I'm fairly sure the only way out of this situation is for Serela to either intentionally throw the game [Nukeing me = SK 1v1 = Both die = SK wins] which is against the 'Play to Win' rule, or for him to join me in No-Lynch, shoot Bard, and hope Bard dosen't shoot him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:24:55 AM
AKA: Serela if you're following the rules and playing to win your literal only move is No-Lynch.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:27:31 AM
Assumeing hard stalemate = scum win:

My path to victory: No Lynch -> Cross-shot

Serela's path to victory: No Lynch -> Shoot Bard + Bard Shoots me -> Nuke Me

Bard's path to victory: Anything that involves a lynch [Stalemate or 1v1]; or No-Lynch -> Serela shoots me Bard shoots Serela
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:29:03 AM
Note 2 player's victory conditions involve No-Lynch, so No-Lych should happen should everyone be playing to win, and in a No-Lynch situation, the scum wincons both involve shooting the other scum.

Oh yeah I guess I missed Bard wins if both Serela and him shoot me, but that isn't happening if Serela is playing to win and following the rules.

Barring people not playing to win and thus breaking the rules; I win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:31:15 AM
Serela's path to victory: No Lynch or Bard Lynch -> Shoot Bard + Bard Shoots me -> Nuke Me

Bard's path to victory: Raikaria/Serela lynch  [Stalemate or 1v1]; or No-Lynch -> Serela shoots me Bard shoots Serela

I forgot if we lynch Bard Serela wins via nuke.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:34:05 AM
Also, Rai:It's not a prisoner's dilemma because if bard's a failsafe and I NK him, he just fires at nuke at you, which you can't guard against, and that means he wins anyway

so it's actual kingmaker where forcing a no lynch just means bard wins

Bard still shoots you Serela.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 07:35:11 AM
Also, Rai:It's not a prisoner's dilemma because if bard's a failsafe and I NK him, he just fires at nuke at you, which you can't guard against, and that means he wins anyway

so it's actual kingmaker where forcing a no lynch just means bard wins

Also Failsafe nuke takes 48 hours to hit and I only need live for 24 to win.

So if you cross-shoot Bard still can't kill me.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:32:08 AM
Just want to note: if I die during the night, the nuke launched at Raikaria will land before the 48hr deadline and result in SK win.

I don't need to be alive to win, you know.

Quote
Q: If Town is lynched at 3p and their are nukes in the air, do the scum win automatically or do the nukes land post-lynch and then win conditions are resolved?
A: At least one member of a faction must survive for at least 48 hours after all enemy nations have been eliminated in order for that faction to win, which leaves ample time for any stray nukes in the air to land (even if their launchers are dead).

at least 48 hours
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:34:09 AM
I'm sure it said 24 hours.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:34:43 AM
I guess the most outlandish thing you can do is help Serela win.

No Lynch -> Protecc Serela so I can't kill him -> Get nuked when Serela kills me -> Game ends with only Serela alive because I launch my nuke at you, since Serela can defensive silo to protect against my nuke

Honestly, I don't think you've thought this through.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:35:43 AM
Last edit on those rules is 31 May, so you're just completely SOL here, mate. Bullying No Lynch-tan just means you're trying to help Serela win the game, in which case you might as well lynch me now and give him the win without convoluted risks.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:37:42 AM
Honestly, I don't think you've thought this through.

Nuke wasn't Town-aligned anyway.

Serela nukes me instead we have a similar situation.

Serela nukeing you was the only way for a Town win but you claimed failsafe so he couldn't do that.

Town had basically lost regardless. Only way to win was lynching you and Serela not nuking either me or Zoomy. Which he obviously would not do. Or a Turbolynch on Serela before he could nuke. Which I gunned for and didn't happen.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:39:38 AM
Every No Lynch Night Scenario Where Raikaria Protects Himself:

Scenario 1:
Raikaria protects Raikaria
Serela shoots Raikaria
Bardiche shoots Raikaria

Result: Bardiche & Serela survive, Bardiche wins because everyone will die.

Scenario 2:
Raikaria protects Raikaria
Serela shoots Raikaria
Bardiche shoots Serela

Result: Raikaria & Bardiche survive, Bardiche wins the game through deadlock mechanics

Scenario 3:
Raikaria protects Raikaria
Serela shoots Bardiche
Bardiche shoots Raikaria

Result: Serela & Raikaria survive, Bardiche nukes Raikaria, Serela wins the game.
Alt: Bardiche nukes Serela, but Serela's silo is defensive, Serela wins the game through deadlock mechanics.

Scenario 4:
Raikaria protects Raikaria
Serela shoots Bardiche
Bardiche shoots Serela

Result: Raikaria survives, but Bardiche launches a nuke which kills Raikaria, resulting in Bardiche win


Therefore: defending yourself is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:41:48 AM
I mean, we can still bulli no-lynch-tan. You just shoot Serela.

Even if Serela shoots me and you kill Serela, you win because NNR has made it pretty clear town loses in a stalemate.

Game was lost for town as soon as you had claimed Failsafe and Serela showed up to stop a Turbo. Zoomy being alive or not actually means nothing.

And Lynching Bard wouldn't have saved Town, because Serela would still nuke me or Zoomy and just win next day.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:42:24 AM
Now if you change any of these to Raikaria protecting someone else, they're all variations of "Bardiche wins the game" with a handful of "Serela wins through deadlock mechanics", in universes where both Raikaria and Serela survive.

There's no universe in which Raikaria wins the game.

Therefore.

If you're intent on letting Serela win, might as well vote me now instead, otherwise vote Serela and give me the win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:43:13 AM
Now if you change any of these to Raikaria protecting someone else, they're all variations of "Bardiche wins the game" with a handful of "Serela wins through deadlock mechanics", in universes where both Raikaria and Serela survive.

There's no universe in which Raikaria wins the game.

Therefore.

If you're intent on letting Serela win, might as well vote me now instead, otherwise vote Serela and give me the win.

Or if you want to win you can just hammer no-lynch?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:44:09 AM
I mean let's make this the mafia where everyone is dead at the end Bard.

You and Serela cross-shoot. You nuke me. Everyone dies. North Korea wins.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:46:00 AM
Also this dosen't change the fact that with me on No-Lynch Serela's only wincon is to also No-Lynch and HOPE Bard shoots me instead of him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:46:15 AM
Ugh, why extend the game needlessly.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:47:02 AM
Memes, and letting me go out on my own terms?

Also we'd be extending by maybe a few hours, provided NNR is around. Hammer No-Lynch, turbo night actions, NNR posts night results. You nuke. I just die a painful radioactive death.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 10:51:07 AM
Also I mean, I'm not moving off NL. Serela has to NL to have even a slight chance with me on NL.

You can end the day phase now or wait for Serela to do it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:54:59 AM
##Vote: Raikaria

Or Serela votes with me here and then we all die.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 12:24:31 PM
I mean that works too but then you never get to use your ability.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 12:43:39 PM
I can live with that. In fact, using my Fail Safe involves pointedly not living with it.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 01:02:16 PM
Point still stands, Serela 100% loses if he dosen't No-Lynch.

He only 99% loses if he does since there's the possibility you shoot me instead of him.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 01:49:40 PM
Literally the only situation in which I’d shoot you, is if I thought you wanted to hand Selery the win.

imo we’re just needlessly holding the game up, just self-hammer, Selery and I will kill each other and everyone dies.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
I'm not self-hammering Bard.

I am going out in nuclear fire. After you and Serela cross-shot each other.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 02:01:36 PM
My wincon is I live, as the final member of Town, to self-hammer would be to play against my wincon.

Rules say play to win, my best play is No-Lynch.

You want to win Bard it'll be by my rules.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:09:18 PM
raikaria are you daft

"Serela, you must no lynch to win!" LMAO you said yourself THE ONLY WAY THAT LETS ME WIN is if Bard STRAIGHT UP THROWS THE GAME FOR LITERALLY NO REASON. If Bard was so intent on committing suicide he'd just vote himself now but also why in god's name would that literally ever happen.

Either you lynch Bard with me or Bard wins. Literally every other universe in existence results in bard winning. Even if you gambit doc me and I nk bard he just failsafe nukes me and wins.

I'm really not sure why you went to the effort of typing out 15 posts to imply anything else was possible.

Also no i'm not really planning on commiting suicide, if Bard wants to end the game and win he can hammer no-lynch and commence the night phase to get his win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:12:42 PM
i guess bard could theoretically be lying and that's why he hasn't hammered no-lynch though.

hmm.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:21:07 PM
no the idea that raikaria suspects bard might be lying and is gonna help me win by doccing me as i nightkill a failsafeless bard is stupid

if rai wanted me to win he'd just vote bard

this is dumb.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:22:20 PM
i'm still not committing suicide though, literally my only hope is praying for salvation from riotkaria

I CAN WAIT FOR SALVATION FROM MY ONLY HOPE

NOT THAT RAIKARIA CARED WHEN I WAS HIS ONLY TRUE FRIEND IN EIMM WARNING HIM ABOUT DANGERS AND HE STABBED ME IN THE BACK *SOBS*
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:27:22 PM
Wait, no.

I see.

If Bard's not really a failsafe... if he's just been in defensive silo position all game for safety...

Then Bardiche is the actual kingmaker here in a no-lynch
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:29:35 PM
which also means he would have been praying i actually went and voted raikaria and got endgamed, rather than just no-lynching to end it already
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 02:39:43 PM
Serela; the only way you win if we lynch Bard; or we NL and Bard shoots me.

But Lynching Bard also means I cannot in any way win. At all.

I'm not lynching Bard. At all.

So your only way to have anything above a 0% win chance is to No Lynch. Even if it's 0.01%.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 02:41:31 PM
Also I am calling Bard's bluff on Failsafe by No-Lynching. Because if you guys cross-kill and then Bard is bluffing, I win anyway.

This is why No-Lynch is my best wincon.

You lynch me, you always lose Serela.

Bard and me both have reasons to not vote Bard.

No-Lynch is your only hope at all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:44:09 PM
eh yeah

if bard's not a failsafe he's kingmakering so one of us could win I guess (which also means there's no reason for you to help me win because in that scenario you can win)

and if he is a failsafe we've just both guaranteed lost because due to that possibility he's not, you have no reason to help me win

i guess that's that then! let's all lose together

##Vote No Lynch
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 02:48:45 PM
Quote
-You may continue to post between a Hammer and when a mod reaches the thread, but game actions will not be counted.
we can keep posting if we want btw

I already submitted my action to NNR and I suggest rai does the same so we can hopefully end this in a timely manner B)
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 03:05:57 PM
And of course Serela, you need to kill Bard and hope he dosen't shoot me to win.

Bard; if you're actually failsafe; you need to shoot Serela and then we go into the unusual situation of a day phase with only a townie alive but the game not yet being over.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:20:02 PM
eh I doubt nnr would seriously make us wait it out :U i imagine he would just instantly land Bard's nuke on you, at worst waiting for bard to actually input it
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 03:21:40 PM
eh I doubt nnr would seriously make us wait it out :U i imagine he would just instantly land Bard's nuke on you, at worst waiting for bard to actually input it

I would be very unhappy if this occurs.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 03:25:15 PM
Oh yeah and Bard you should join us and Serela in submitting night actions so NNR can just immediately end the night phase.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
I would be very unhappy if this occurs.
you would be unhappy if you didn't have to sit here alone 48 hrs while we all groan and sigh and wonder why the game isn't over???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:42:56 PM
well I guess you could commit suicide

but really this is basically along the lines of why, when there's 2 scum and 1 townie left, the mod doesn't actually start another game day. Why wait 12 hours for the two scum to show up and hammer the townie?

the game is already over.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
Welp, guess picking Radar was the worst decision. GG, I was so close.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:48:07 PM
did you actually pick radar

as sk?

what does an sk even want with a tracker
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:48:48 PM
ftr i still couldn't have nuked bard because i'd have been confirmed scum due to cop/doc clears zzzzzz
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 03:49:18 PM
Nah, kidding, I am really, 100% serious the Fail Safe, I’m not gonna fire truck with you over the last night.

That said, I’m killing Serela and nuking Raikaria (if I am killed).

I was actually not sure if the nuke lands before game ends, hence why I preferred ending immediately but eh...
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 03:52:06 PM
i appreciate you being straight to the point, raikaria's ranting could have been summed up in like one post :U

yeah raikaria definitely doesn't win with a nuke flying towards him, but the only real change here is the form of the post NNR makes as soon as he wakes up, game still pretty much just ends. I highly doubt he'll make us wait out a 24hr night phase when it's 3p lylo and everyone already publically confirmed submitting
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 03:52:28 PM
That said, Serela, if somehow no one dies tonight, can we at least agree to turbo Raikaria so town doesn’t win? Because they could not be arsed to lynch you, and without the Cop prolly would not have lynched Dormio.

Really, it’s mostly power roles that landed us here, so let’s be petty and let me win ;D
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 03:55:50 PM
Also I srsly wish people’d rolled with me at least when I made the Picture Case.

I felt so clever, but as usual, the future refused to change...
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 04:06:45 PM
I mean, it wasn't a bad case, but I'd already nuked zoomy and when he flipped town it was all over :U
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 04:09:53 PM
you would be unhappy if you didn't have to sit here alone 48 hrs while we all groan and sigh and wonder why the game isn't over???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

No.

I'd be unhappy because of how the rules work and a nuke immediately hitting me would be bad.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 04:11:11 PM
raikaria it's called endgame

when you're the only person alive how is skipping nuke countdown bad
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 04:11:33 PM
raikaria it's called endgame

when you're the only person alive how is skipping nuke countdown bad

I'll explain in the next day phase.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 04:14:19 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ok i guess we'll wait a few hours then or whenever nnr happens around
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 04:58:59 PM
I mean, it wasn't a bad case, but I'd already nuked zoomy and when he flipped town it was all over :U


Wasn’t he still alive? He should’ve sheeped me, turbo-lynched you, hope Rai blocks my NK and then turbo-lynch me before your nuke woulda dropped.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Honestly if only I’d just have a nuke, could’ve nukes the strawberries outta you here and killed Rai ;_;
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 05:16:26 PM
Actually yes you're right, there's enough time before a nuke manages to fall that town actually could have -won- after I nuked Zoomy :U Rai only had to self-protect after turboing me or Bard with Zoomy.

Of course, that requires one of our votes, but I'd have been more than happy to turbo Bard after a bit of time passes and hope zoomy's nuke detonates before Raikaria wakes up. And Bard probably would have turboed me under the assumption he can fool town into thinking he might not be the SK.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 05:19:30 PM
well no, bard would not have turboed me b/c he'd win by abstaining
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 05:33:15 PM
Rai was already tying himself in knots trying to argue why Zoomy was the SK, so.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 05:53:59 PM
sure but you'd be literally guaranteed to win if you just forced a no lynch

i guess they'd realize you're antitown for refusing at some point so you might go along anyway
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 19, 2020, 07:44:03 PM
No-Lynch-tan, British Missile Silo has been firebombed twice, just to be sure.

(https://hazu.moe/gif/kosuzuhellfire.gif)

It is now the Night Phase. The game will end as soon as I collect night actions from all players.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 19, 2020, 08:24:25 PM
Serela, Russian Missile Silo was kamikaze'd to bits.
Bardiche, North Korean Failsafe was stealth bombed.

Raikaria, American Battleship remains.


...



...



...




But there is still a remaining threat to America.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 19, 2020, 08:35:40 PM
☢ In-Game Event ☢
DEFCON 1


(https://i.imgur.com/IyKnr4B.png)

[NORAD SYSTEM] ALERT. ALERT. NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Attempting to locate launch site...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile tracked to facility NO-U, currently commanded by #^&$^%@CONTINGENCY.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Analyzing flight trajectory . . .
[NORAD SYSTEM] Missile is currently targeting coordinates registered to Raikaria.
[NORAD SYSTEM] Estimating time until impact...
[NORAD SYSTEM] Warhead will detonate on Endgame, EDT

[ Expired ]

Raikaria, American Battleship was nuked to smithereens!

The world has been destroyed... There's nobody left... Everybody dies.

Best Korea wins!


QTs:
Mod: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/5wSYKeLitDta
Graveyard: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/bCXRvrWHkTWQ
Russian: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/mRpXmLhdJyp
Russian (Decoded): https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/fUUgs3tw4WPKX
Eavesdrop: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/DtJFSDcLkQE3
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
BAD END GET

it actually happened.

fun fact:after NNR posted night, at some point i realized raikaria doctoring me would have forced the dead Bard into a loss scenario where he gets to choose whether me or Raikaria won. That just means me and Rai misplayed though! Whoops! Congrats on MURDERING ALL LIFE Bardiche
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 08:39:04 PM
You see; here's my thought:

You two die.

48 hour win countdown starts

Nukes take 48 hours to land.

Therefor I win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: raikaria on June 19, 2020, 08:39:47 PM
BAD END GET

it actually happened.

fun fact:after NNR posted night, at some point i realized raikaria doctoring me would have forced the dead Bard into a loss scenario where he gets to choose whether me or Raikaria won. That just means me and Rai misplayed though! Whoops! Congrats on MURDERING ALL LIFE Bardiche

Wait what how?

Don't you just nuke me [Because failsafe] and then cross-shot?
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 08:41:59 PM
No, Serela sets silo to defensive.

Either I try to nuke Serela and fail.

Or I nuke you.

Either way Serela'd win if you protected him.

Good job not letting Russia win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 08:43:40 PM
Rai that's just shady stuff that a mod would clearly say "no that's not really how it works" though :U The entire point of the extra timer rule is "no you don't get to avoid being nuked because endgame happened"

Also the bard cut reminds me that I actually had a way to avoid the failsafe kill, oh right. So I could have guaranteed my win. I kept forgetting that was a thing I could do.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NekoNekoRex on June 19, 2020, 08:43:44 PM
The 48 hour nuke timer is to make it clear nukes in the air will not let you avoid a loss even if the players are dead. A nuke being fired at you will still endgame you anyway.
Wait what how?

Don't you just nuke me [Because failsafe] and then cross-shot?
Doccing Serela would have left you and Serela alive, and Bardiche NK'd. Assuming Serela didn't nuke you immediately, the failsafe would have had to choose either America or Russia to be nuked from the game.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 09:29:48 PM
Anyway,

I shot Beru because modkills are lame, but by Jove did I not expect it to play out so well. Thanks, Eavesdropper!
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on June 19, 2020, 09:34:44 PM
Cops are lame.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Anyway,

I shot Beru because modkills are lame, but by Jove did I not expect it to play out so well. Thanks, Eavesdropper!
Hilariously, we almost nightkilled you n2. Like, I was debating zoomy or you, and Dormio said to nk you or zoomy. You claiming straight up that you didn't have a nuke is what lead me to NK Zoomy instead.

WHO GOT DOCCED.

Of course, if you had failsafed me, and we killed you, and Yaer claimed guilty on Dormio, the game would have been instantly over. XD
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
Just to make clear, if I had been NK'd, I would've nuked Serela because I'd been aiming for your lynch since forever, y'know.

There's also a non-zero per cent chance I would've nuked Nucleus instead.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 19, 2020, 10:31:52 PM
Good job Bard, I feel like you earned that win, I had some suspicions that you might have been Russia, but never North Korea.

Also

HAPPY END
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Yaersulf on June 19, 2020, 10:34:44 PM


fun fact:after NNR posted night, at some point i realized raikaria doctoring me would have forced the dead Bard into a loss scenario where he gets to choose whether me or Raikaria won. That just means me and Rai misplayed though! Whoops! Congrats on MURDERING ALL LIFE Bardiche

I actually realised this a while ago. But sadly I could only watch impotently and hope that Raikaria would realise, having blown myself up and all.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 19, 2020, 10:55:07 PM
also fun fact:
had raikaria helped me lynch serela
I would've killed myself in the night
and then nuke Raikaria

Ask NNR because I ran it by him ;D
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 20, 2020, 12:07:12 AM
I dont know, it feels karmically right to have Bardiche winning, and we get to do the historically right thing of reminding our future this setup is biased towards NK winning

But mechanically, I just felt a wee bit sour over losing, so much missed opportunities
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Serela on June 20, 2020, 12:14:46 AM
Losses happen! But a lesson for the future when it comes to lynches :U If we had lynched Bard instead of failing to have any votes it would've been like... me vs Meow on the final day and I would have been shaking in my boots.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: NucleusWaffles on June 20, 2020, 12:34:06 AM
I think this game is really well designed though, town has so much agency nobody is truly a ‘VT’, we can all learn from our mistakes and the Eavesdropper has a lot of untapped potential.

Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 20, 2020, 12:41:55 AM
This setup isn't biased towards North Korea so much as gleefully tossing nukes around is going to favour North Korea.

If you actually lynch NK first and then sign a nuclear truce, there's no way NK can win.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 20, 2020, 12:44:47 AM
@Yaersulf:
Quote
Yeah if Bard is scum, he's scarily good at it.

You should read Zombie Apocalypse Mafia. I claimed the N1 kill, Town convinced itself I was an ITP, and I won while hard-bussing my team.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Bardiche on June 20, 2020, 12:48:11 AM
I guess my one saving grace in this game is that, despite virtually never getting the lynches I want by my own arguments, I'm also seldom lynched, and win most games where I am non-Town.

As I alluded to earlier in this game, as Scum my habit is to bus my allies the moment they're a possible lynch. This somehow works out despite seeming so counter to winning.

I'm not actually that good at the game. I just have insane amounts of luck.
Title: Re: Neo DEFCON Mafia (DEFCON 1, Phase 1)
Post by: Tom on June 24, 2020, 05:18:39 AM
Hey I was following the game and saw how scum communicated in cipher text, which fit the theme of this game perfectly!  So it became a feature here.  Its also historically accurate to a state of the art cipher of the 1800s so maybe it could also work in themed games in Gensokyo etc without being out-of-character.